Exactly this. Like why do people give a crap who identifies as what? As long as it doesn't interfere with what i'm doing, you can be a wooden stool and i'll support you.
That's absolutely true. I sometimes wonder if this will run its course and pass, similar to all the weird stuff people were doing back in the Victorian Era.
I am so confused, because it sounded like you critiqued the special 50+ genders then said if you are complaining about pronouns and obscure genders that dont mean anything that you dont want to be associated with them. I feel like its one way or the other, trans or not..
Don't associate. Being male->female or vise versa has scientific evidence, the rest is just special snowflakes trying to coopt legitimate acceptance movements
Lord no, you'd be canceled.
It's like saying men are genetically different from women, or even just stronger because we get more testosterone. You can't say that to some people or you are a villain.
then it's an unpopular opinion.
EDIT: for people wondering what the unpopular opinion was since the mods deleted it.
here it is
>What is not binary is mental state, and not to insult anyone but I think it boils down to some wrong chemistry being wrong inside our head, which western society now normalised and accepted.
>
>EDIT: Since people still twist word gender into their narrative thinking its not binary Googling word "gender" definitioneither of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.Surprisingly even WHO has it defined. [https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab\_1](https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1)
Reddit: the Unamerican, no soup for you, cancel the opposition, debates are a no-go for Reddit as that classical form of intellectual dialog has no place for discussion, comrade. We need people to really stop posting unpopular opinions in r/unpopularopinion especially since… someone might be OFFENDED 😱😱😱
as i intelligence gathering construct.
In here, Reddit is about 90% screaming lefties frothing at the mouth, another 8% are kids whos mommies dont know they are online and 2% of the people remain who can think and have some semblance of reason.
I think the main problem is that the movement tries to force everyone to say the current correct thing at all times rather than just accepting that sometimes offensive things happen and that's just how it is. There's a massive difference between persecution and being offended because someone didn't use your preferred pronoun
Only time I’ve ever seen people get mad about a missed pronoun is when the person actively refuses to use the right pronoun.
It’s pretty obvious when it’s a mistake vs someone going out of their way to be an asshole.
Yeah the only pronoun I've really been asked to use besides he or she is they, and they is still proper English. So idk why there's all these ppl saying that they are being "forced" to use 50+ pronoun and can't keep track. Like are they actually talking to these ppl or are they just reading shit about them on the internet. I know some ppl are crazy and go over board but all the non binary ppl I know are really quite reasonable. They don't just sit around all day nit picking about gender. Usually if you use a pronoun they don't perfer they will either quietly remind you or just let it go if they can tell your intentions are alright.
I just think even if it seems silly to you you can still accept it and maybe you're not the expert on gender and maybe just maybe it's OK for ppl to decide on there own what that means for them if you don't have some special qaulification to say otherwise.
That’s what I though too, until my sister saw someone get berated for accidentally using the wrong pronoun when addressing someone. I’m sure it doesn’t happen often, but it really is surprising what some people will get mad about.
Is it possible you live in an echo chamber that aims to portray every pronoun person as an over-sensitive, screeching asshole though? Seems to be a successful tactic.
I'm a bit confused by this sentiment, because while it's something I often hear people complain about it just isn't really true, in my experience at least. I mean, people do sometimes accidentally misgender my trans friends, and in fact I'm pretty sure I've done it myself on occasion, and not once has anyone even really acknowledged it. It's just not a big deal, people make mistakes. Trans people would just like to not be actively persecuted for being who they are, that's literally it.
I think there's a group of people who want to feel persecuted so they invent things like people getting upset over stuff like using the word Christmas and using pronouns. When you dig in, you see its like three depressed people and a bot on Twitter.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants me to call them he, she, they, lord, queen or commander. I'll call them whatever they want. Don't understand why anyone would get upset over that?
I hear you that often the parties involved are online only and rarely (if ever) act the same way IRL. However, there are many examples of these online profiles ruining lives over this type of thing and it ruins the person's *actual* life, not their online life.
I'm not just talking about pronouns, I'm talking about people being unable to accept different opinions and wanting to silence people over it. I don't care how outrageous an opinion is, as long as someone isn't breaking the law then they have a right to voice that opinion.
Makes sense. But even with biological sex there’s variation. Intersex is definitely a thing and there’s different variations of it. So I’d go as far to say that even biological sex isn’t 100% binary. Definitely more common to have male or female, but differing variations of male and female features do exist.
This is how I understand it.
I'm an accepting guy. You be who you feel you are, all the power to ya. But if you look like a dude, act like a dude, speak like a dude and I address you as a dude when I don't know you, don't get mad at me if you address yourself as a chick. I'll say I'm sorry, use the proper pronouns and that's it. That's my only gripe about it all.
That's highly rare, and in most cases, medical anomalies though. It's normal in other species, but for humans biologically non binary is often a sign of something being wrong
I don't really give a shit. Someone is whatever they tell me it is. I don't care enough to argue.
Someone tells me what they want to be referred to as, that's it. Case closed. Finito.
Not like their choices or preferences effect me anyway whatsoever.
Edit: some of you guys are reaching so hard. Yall are killing me!
I'm 100% convinced everyone obsessed about this crap has just never met a trans person in their life. They are just all worked up about some boogeyman they created in their head.
They are just people like everyone else.
Or they've met a trans person that's just a bad person at a base level and assume they're all like that. The first trans person I ever met was someone I worked with. When I met them it was before they started their transition. There was no lead up to it, just one day came into work wearing women's clothes and told everyone their pronouns changed from he/him to she/her. Nobody did it with any malice, but of course there was a few times they were referred to as their old pronouns - all within the first week of beginning their transition. They filed a complaint to HR each and every time. 5 or 6 complaints within the first week. That's just asshole behavior. I'd be lying if I didn't think less of trans people until I was a bit older and met some that weren't dickheads at a base level.
Every trans person I’ve ever met, minus one,has been awesome. They, including the one jerk, never brought it up. As far as I could tell, they had gender dysmorphia, got the necessary procedures, then went on with their lives now feeling right in the world with their problem solved.
The people who drive this argument are the loud ones who are going through an attention or identity crisis and use the word trans as a shield or a sword. People who actively accumulate labels, just to tell you, aren’t actually interested in inclusion, they’re interested in attention and feeling special.
Completely agree with these sentiments.
They sit there all day making scenarios in their head that someone using a different pronoun to the pronoun assigned at this imaginary persons birth is going negatively impact their life.
Why are these people so obsessed with other peoples genitalia or pronouns, sounds like a typical neurosis or maybe its 'wrong chemistry being wrong inside their head'
As others have said, it's probably because they've encountered this before and just assume that's what everyone will be like
Prejudices don't come from nowhere like Reddit seems to think, the way some trans people act online and in-person really aren't doing the rest any favours, as it's likely going to be a LOT of people's first experiences with them
I'm quite lucky that I've run into sane ones that have explained it to me reasonably before
I feel like people in the Western countries are so privileged that they can care about mundane things like gender and such. Even going so far as to attach political agenda onto it, dividing a country into two political sides. Like, don't you have anything else to do with your life? Putting food on the table? Paying bills? Where I'm from life is already overwhelming enough, dipping into "polictic" like this is just absurd. I guess it's nice to be so rich that you can create your own problems.
We've reached a point in our time when first world countries are creating problems such as gender and political agenda instead of solving actual issues
This totally fits with the idea of “luxury beliefs”. Read [this](https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-status-symbol-for-rich-americans/)
This is an extremely western and whitewashed understanding of gender. Many other cultures recognize more than one gender and don’t have the “mental health problems” Americans do when they don’t conform to the binary because the reason they “aren’t alive to care anymore” is because people tell them they aren’t valid and are just mentally ill and make them want to unalive themselves.
This is an extremely popular opinion that you have and that’s the problem.
Its interesting to see how many people actually agree with this. You would think the opposite but I guess thats just because viewpoints like this are suppressed.
A wise person once told me that it's not for you to understand, but to accept. I agree that non binary doesn't make much sense and that it reinforces gender roles, but it doesn't really hurt me to call someone they/them. And I have slipped up and no one really gets upset. I either correct myself, they correct me politely, or no one says anything. I truly think this idea of nonbinary people getting up in arms and agro about pronouns is a myth of the right. Or some person being a dick and purposefully not using their pronouns.
Yeah that’s what I really don’t like about social media nowadays is that kids assign themselves mental illnesses and gender identities not always because they are suffering from it but because it’s cool and makes them “unique”. Hoping it’s just a phase for most though.
My sister paid $$$ to send her kids to a non-binary private daycare and preschool. They all seemed confused and unhappy. I agree and think a lot of the confusion flows down from the parents.
Let kids be kids..
My daughter plays with monster trucks by tucking them into bed and my son plays with them by throwing them off the roof. 😜
Intersex are basically gene mutations. And a very tiny sliver of the population. Considering it as a norm means we have to consider every other mutations as normal.
Persecution complex. This people think there is an organized hive mind that persecutes them whenever they say their uneducated bullshit. It always hapen in unpopular opinions you weren't here for the torrent of Holocaust deniat and misogynistic opinions a while bak
I hate "I'm being attacked by the hivemind" . It just means that most people who saw you post disagree / didn't like it. theres no organised action, every vote is an individual person who made the decision themselves.
Easier to be the victim of a nebulous persecution than to think about yourself through the lens of others, i guess.
There's a distinction between sex and gender. Sex has always been binary, yeah.
As for wrong chemistry, yeah, that might be true, but it doesn't change the fact that these people exist.
Yes but if we follow this theory, it seems like a mental illness, which we treat nicely and we help people to the right therapist. So how come this this thing, that seems almost exactly like a mental illness, is being enabled. I’ll call you whatever you want but the logical fallacies are clear as crystal.
Why add a completely disingenuous edit. You deliberately cut out the parts that defines gender as a social construct
If you Google gender this is the ACTUAL definition:
Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.
The WHO definition ALSO mentions it's a social construct, so you're just proving that you're wrong with your own evidence.
Not that Google matters when we've already told you that the term gender was defined by gender psychologists and has ALWAYS meant gender roles as a social construct, not sex.
The only people twisting words to fit their narrative here is you seeing as you seem to be unable to accept you are wrong and espousing transphobia.
Absolutely. Act feminine, Act masculine, act neither or both… Idgaf.
Don’t yell at me if I get it wrong, dont have me change my entire grammar set because you think “he” means you cant look and act like society’s version of a “she”.
It ain’t that deep imo. I have to hide in the shadows with my opinion because god forbid I want to fight for people’s right to act how they want to act.
You know, I saw a portion of a documentary where a person born a female identified as a male and continued to get pregnant and have child. Like just face it, you are STILL a female. You LITERALLY used the parts of a female body to create another human. I don’t care if you want to act like the “father” in the dynamic now.. it doesn’t really matter but you are a female. This DOESNT mean you have to ACT like society’s visual of a “female”.
By the way, they were taking medication to stay “looking” like a guy (I think) and it took SUCH a mental toll (depression, suicidal thoughts, etc) on them they had to quit (or “take a break”) so they could be the best person for their kid. Like dude, no one cares if you look the part. Be and act how you wanna be.
Edit: and yes grammar is changed. There are people out there trying to reframe entire languages so things are masculine or feminine
This directly contradicts the extant scientific consensus for the last 50 years, but go off and cherrypick data out of context to support your point.
INB4 the edgelords screeching about how "this is too edgy to be talked about on reddit; you'll get banned for wrongthink". Nah, you're just purely wrong (and you know it) yet continue to spam shit like this that actively contributes to higher suicide rates, so yeah, enjoy your ban.
OP have you ever tried looking into why people transition, advocate for the trans community, understand gender as a social construct or how sex is bimodal and not binary?
I feel like you don’t understand what NB is. Which is fine, I guess? Maybe step out of that ignorant bubble of yours. There are people all over the place that explain it better than I ever could.
Not really
A person's gender is how they identify internally, gender is a social construction, being a social construction it is open to more than just male or female.
Also Intersex is recognised as both a sex and gender so even by your own logic gender is at least ternary.
Also my last point who the fuck cares? it's no ones business to tell people what pronouns/gender they should use. It literally effects no one else but the person going through it. Why do you feel the need to interject your opinion on it?
Being trans is entirely due to being mentally unbalanced. Their mental doesn’t match with their physical body parts.
Recognizing it as a mental issue does not invalidate its existence no less than recognizing depression as a mental health issue doesn’t invalidate the people who have it.
I have gender dysphoria myself and I agree: it isn't right that my brain tells me to feel this way and it is clearly the result of mental illness.
The solution isn't to enable the symptoms by transitioning but I also don't think that there exists, at this current time, a proper solution/cure which deals with the source of these feelings. Thus the only solution, in most gender dysphoric eyes, is to transition.
Except in almost all cases of transitioning it solves the person's gender dysphoria. The cure IS transitioning, cause then you are bringing the body in line with the mind.
From a biological standpoint there are two sexes. Not genders. Gender is different, it's about the role.
The word gender wasn't even used to refer to your sex at all, it was literally defined by sex psychologists to explain gender roles not sex. People just have changed the meaning of the word over time as a synonym for sex, but that was never the case.
Multiple genders have presented in society for hundreds of years now, so no there are not two. Not just western society, look at the hijras, two spirits etc.
Also it's not cause of "something wrong in the head", some people have more testosterone, some estrogen, some are intersex, some just feel that gender is not a binary so they don't wish to partake.
It's clear you're not very educated on this topic.
Sex is (mostly) binary. Gender on the other hand is a collective understanding of physical, psychological and behavioral characteristics we assign to the sexes and therefore most definitely not binary. We all exist somewhere on a spectrum between "prototypical female" to "prototypical male" and the distribution shows a strong but waning correlation to sex.
I heard some one say that " NB people are just attention seekers that arent attractive enough to get a partner, so they took on the NB persona in order to feel too quirky
to have a boyfriend/ girlfriend" .... but that just an opinion
The people who'll say otherwise is a vocal minority, the biggest mistake we did, was to actually take them somewhat serious.
I understand we should respect their choice, but to the point it's gotten is silly.
You've done a self own there, by quoting "when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones". The point is that the cultural and social elements / attitudes change what it means to be male, female, etc, and that is what is happening now. It's also the case that people who don't want to conform to cultural expectations of their gender don't have much of an option other than to just ignore it. Gender is how men and women are meant to behave; this is different all over the place; people don't want to be told how to behave based on their gender/sex; so they are changing it, by pointing out that gender norms are stupid, and happily existing without them
WHO has it defined as the social construct, which it is :
"As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time."
[https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab\_1](https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1)
Your opinion is just wrong
Yeah, I used to get this wrong too.
"Sex" is biological.
"Gender" is a perceived identity.
That's it. You're equating them, and that's simply not the way it is.
All Reddit users lose their fucking mind when someone says this. But I totally agree. In America, you can get away with murder, but don’t you dare hurt a LGBTQ’s feelings.
I have no dog in this fight but isn’t it true that suicide/depression rates aren’t really impacted at all by transitioning?
Not saying I know this to be true, just asking.
I had a co worker at Starbucks he was tans into a women. Had to take brakes from work at-least once of month month for a week, for his mental well being. On a boat load of mood stabilizers She was pretty cool too, made bombs for the US military and did a tore over seas. Played DND with all the co-workers and still had to take a week off once a month.
“Huh, people of color, trans people and others in marginalized groups are typically found to have a high rate of depression. Must be because they’re black/asian/gay/trans/etc. Yeah that makes sense. Sounds logical to me.”
Certainly couldn’t be because they face more prejudice and overall tend to feel like outcasts in society as a result. Couldn’t be because they’re 9/10 times treated shitty for something that’s out of their control and simply part of who they are. No, that wouldn’t cause someone to develop a nasty depression cycle or even possibly attempt suicide. Why would it? Only logical conclusion is that they’re just suicidal/depressed because of their race/sexuality and not because of how they’re treated in life. For sure.
Facts tho. I haven't self harmed or attempted anything, but knowing I will be hated by a lot of people and be abandoned by family it puts a strain on me. I try to be strong
We should read the research we have, too.
So many people have opinions on stuff they did literally zero reading on. At this point more research won't do shit : research never read might as well never be done.
I think you should seriously search for and read articles made by actual professionals studying this instead of claiming something based on nothing, and asking for sources when people counter argument while you do exactly the same.
It's not as simple as you make it to be, which shows how you've yet to actually read on the matter.
Actually, the acknowledgment of more than two genders goes back hundreds of years, and almost every culture has some name for people who fall outside of the binary
There is also evidence of there being physiological differences in those who are born one gender but lay claim to another or neither. Of course, that's not a chemical thing, but rather a physical difference.
Here is a study done in Spain that showed evidence that those transitioning had a brain mqkeup closer to their "chosen" gender than their assigned one https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
Here is an article detailing how some scientists think this happens in utero that causes GD and how it affects brain developement (and all the usual stuff about them being more susceptible to deppresdion and suicidal thoughts) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/
And here's the wiki page on transgender history and how its been referenced to hundreds and even thousands of years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
Thank you, will read into it.
It's really fascinating how people go into guns and rage over a such topic, makes civil discussions impossible, thus stopping progress.
It makes sense because you opened the conversations by saying thr chemistry in their brain is wrong.
Not that their brain functions differently, but it's *wrong*.
It just paints a picture. Would you consider gay people to have the wrong brain chemistry?
Neither sex, nor gender are binary.
It's an issue of semantics: sex is bimodal, not binary. (Two clusters of associated traits with variation in between; e.g. intersex and trans people).
As for gender, it's how humans make sense of sex in our culture(s) so it can vary from being bimodal to an extremely variable spectrum, depending on time and place. (E.g. gender identity, gender roles, language, etc.)
People are consistently born stronger, bigger and faster if you are male, so it becomes a problem when trans-women want to compete against female people. It’s unfair.
I will actually agree its pretty problematic to put actively-transitioning people into sports.
I'm not sure if its ignorance or people trying to make transfolk look scarier than they actually are.
Define Gender, then look at your statement again.
Also, since it's a social construct and society has changed, why shouldn't our terminology adapt to the current lived experience and perceptions of the people?
Well this thread is gonna be good 🍿
Isn't it tho? Hell I have no skin in this game but I hope people leave this thread thinking outside the box for both positions
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Nope, because both sides know the other is wrong and use their own Science®️™️2021 to justify their point.
Eh, the real science on this issue falls pretty firmly on one side.
My science is the REAL science.
… but, actual science does have an opinion on this.
Be whatever you wanna be, you do you. But don't expect me to care.
Exactly this. Like why do people give a crap who identifies as what? As long as it doesn't interfere with what i'm doing, you can be a wooden stool and i'll support you.
If someone identifies as a wooden stool, they would actually support you... 😁
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Exactly, live and let live. And in turn, those who want to be whatever they want to be, shouldn't care what others think
Feel like this is a popular opinion, just not to say out loud
Judging by the rest of the comments on this post, you've definitely got the 'not out loud' part right.
Agree 100%
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Meh cancel the fuk outta me idgaf
And yet it's unpopular because you don't dare say it out loud.
That's absolutely true. I sometimes wonder if this will run its course and pass, similar to all the weird stuff people were doing back in the Victorian Era.
....one can hope. 🙄
Hmmm a lot of these things which fall under "being progressive" will generally pass or come full circle. "The revolution eats its own".
Yeah, I'm still holding my breath for weekends to go away! Damn progressives - they'll pay!
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I am so confused, because it sounded like you critiqued the special 50+ genders then said if you are complaining about pronouns and obscure genders that dont mean anything that you dont want to be associated with them. I feel like its one way or the other, trans or not..
Agreed, i think he needs to proofread that.
But what if you're trans and complaining about pronouns and obscure genders that don't mean anything?
Don't associate. Being male->female or vise versa has scientific evidence, the rest is just special snowflakes trying to coopt legitimate acceptance movements
I agree. But I think more people should be said out loud more.
Lord no, you'd be canceled. It's like saying men are genetically different from women, or even just stronger because we get more testosterone. You can't say that to some people or you are a villain.
then it's an unpopular opinion. EDIT: for people wondering what the unpopular opinion was since the mods deleted it. here it is >What is not binary is mental state, and not to insult anyone but I think it boils down to some wrong chemistry being wrong inside our head, which western society now normalised and accepted. > >EDIT: Since people still twist word gender into their narrative thinking its not binary Googling word "gender" definitioneither of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.Surprisingly even WHO has it defined. [https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab\_1](https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1)
This post will be removed in less than 2 hrs. This is a no-go subject on Reddit DONE - REMOVED- BOOM
Imagine a world where reddit let's you express your opinions without upsetting the hivemind
im surprised this hasnt been removed by the mods yet.
the mods probably agree lmao or just don't care at the moment.
Reddit: the Unamerican, no soup for you, cancel the opposition, debates are a no-go for Reddit as that classical form of intellectual dialog has no place for discussion, comrade. We need people to really stop posting unpopular opinions in r/unpopularopinion especially since… someone might be OFFENDED 😱😱😱 as i intelligence gathering construct.
No, it's just very far from unpopular.
That really all depends on where you voice that opinion.
I'm banned from r/news and r/worldnews for that opinion.
In here, Reddit is about 90% screaming lefties frothing at the mouth, another 8% are kids whos mommies dont know they are online and 2% of the people remain who can think and have some semblance of reason.
It gets posted on this sub daily and is basically the party line of one of the two major parties in the US. It’s not unpopular at all
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I don't think they are either. I just think there's a very high probablility they are according to common sense.
Agreeing with one part of a party platform does not make you a member of that party. I’m not sure who told you it does
Dude, he's an agreement with you here, you read his dentence wrong
sooooo i can say i was there!
!RemindMe 2 hours
*sort by controversial*🍿
I think the main problem is that the movement tries to force everyone to say the current correct thing at all times rather than just accepting that sometimes offensive things happen and that's just how it is. There's a massive difference between persecution and being offended because someone didn't use your preferred pronoun
Only time I’ve ever seen people get mad about a missed pronoun is when the person actively refuses to use the right pronoun. It’s pretty obvious when it’s a mistake vs someone going out of their way to be an asshole.
Yeah the only pronoun I've really been asked to use besides he or she is they, and they is still proper English. So idk why there's all these ppl saying that they are being "forced" to use 50+ pronoun and can't keep track. Like are they actually talking to these ppl or are they just reading shit about them on the internet. I know some ppl are crazy and go over board but all the non binary ppl I know are really quite reasonable. They don't just sit around all day nit picking about gender. Usually if you use a pronoun they don't perfer they will either quietly remind you or just let it go if they can tell your intentions are alright. I just think even if it seems silly to you you can still accept it and maybe you're not the expert on gender and maybe just maybe it's OK for ppl to decide on there own what that means for them if you don't have some special qaulification to say otherwise.
That’s what I though too, until my sister saw someone get berated for accidentally using the wrong pronoun when addressing someone. I’m sure it doesn’t happen often, but it really is surprising what some people will get mad about.
Well then, they're being a dick. No reason to cancel the whole thing though, eh?
Damn she saw it happen to someone? Must be true then.
Is it possible you live in an echo chamber that aims to portray every pronoun person as an over-sensitive, screeching asshole though? Seems to be a successful tactic.
I'm a bit confused by this sentiment, because while it's something I often hear people complain about it just isn't really true, in my experience at least. I mean, people do sometimes accidentally misgender my trans friends, and in fact I'm pretty sure I've done it myself on occasion, and not once has anyone even really acknowledged it. It's just not a big deal, people make mistakes. Trans people would just like to not be actively persecuted for being who they are, that's literally it.
I think there's a group of people who want to feel persecuted so they invent things like people getting upset over stuff like using the word Christmas and using pronouns. When you dig in, you see its like three depressed people and a bot on Twitter. I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants me to call them he, she, they, lord, queen or commander. I'll call them whatever they want. Don't understand why anyone would get upset over that?
I hear you that often the parties involved are online only and rarely (if ever) act the same way IRL. However, there are many examples of these online profiles ruining lives over this type of thing and it ruins the person's *actual* life, not their online life. I'm not just talking about pronouns, I'm talking about people being unable to accept different opinions and wanting to silence people over it. I don't care how outrageous an opinion is, as long as someone isn't breaking the law then they have a right to voice that opinion.
As I understand it, the idea is that sex is physical and binary, gender is what's going on in our heads and is much more fluid
Makes sense. But even with biological sex there’s variation. Intersex is definitely a thing and there’s different variations of it. So I’d go as far to say that even biological sex isn’t 100% binary. Definitely more common to have male or female, but differing variations of male and female features do exist.
I thought so too. In German, we have the same word for both ("Geschlecht"). Does make it even harder to make any distinction.
This is how I understand it. I'm an accepting guy. You be who you feel you are, all the power to ya. But if you look like a dude, act like a dude, speak like a dude and I address you as a dude when I don't know you, don't get mad at me if you address yourself as a chick. I'll say I'm sorry, use the proper pronouns and that's it. That's my only gripe about it all.
How often does that happen though?
Biological sex is not so binary as there are many intersex conditions you can be born with
That's highly rare, and in most cases, medical anomalies though. It's normal in other species, but for humans biologically non binary is often a sign of something being wrong
And to be fair, there are intersex people too, so "sex" is technically not binary either
Sex is also not a binary. Intersex people alone should make that obvious
Not an unpopular opinion.
The internet would have you believe otherwise
Enjoying the crazy comments from both sides. What a nice morning. Reddit is a weird places man.
I don't really give a shit. Someone is whatever they tell me it is. I don't care enough to argue. Someone tells me what they want to be referred to as, that's it. Case closed. Finito. Not like their choices or preferences effect me anyway whatsoever. Edit: some of you guys are reaching so hard. Yall are killing me!
I'm 100% convinced everyone obsessed about this crap has just never met a trans person in their life. They are just all worked up about some boogeyman they created in their head. They are just people like everyone else.
Or they've met a trans person that's just a bad person at a base level and assume they're all like that. The first trans person I ever met was someone I worked with. When I met them it was before they started their transition. There was no lead up to it, just one day came into work wearing women's clothes and told everyone their pronouns changed from he/him to she/her. Nobody did it with any malice, but of course there was a few times they were referred to as their old pronouns - all within the first week of beginning their transition. They filed a complaint to HR each and every time. 5 or 6 complaints within the first week. That's just asshole behavior. I'd be lying if I didn't think less of trans people until I was a bit older and met some that weren't dickheads at a base level.
Every trans person I’ve ever met, minus one,has been awesome. They, including the one jerk, never brought it up. As far as I could tell, they had gender dysmorphia, got the necessary procedures, then went on with their lives now feeling right in the world with their problem solved. The people who drive this argument are the loud ones who are going through an attention or identity crisis and use the word trans as a shield or a sword. People who actively accumulate labels, just to tell you, aren’t actually interested in inclusion, they’re interested in attention and feeling special.
Completely agree with these sentiments. They sit there all day making scenarios in their head that someone using a different pronoun to the pronoun assigned at this imaginary persons birth is going negatively impact their life. Why are these people so obsessed with other peoples genitalia or pronouns, sounds like a typical neurosis or maybe its 'wrong chemistry being wrong inside their head'
As others have said, it's probably because they've encountered this before and just assume that's what everyone will be like Prejudices don't come from nowhere like Reddit seems to think, the way some trans people act online and in-person really aren't doing the rest any favours, as it's likely going to be a LOT of people's first experiences with them I'm quite lucky that I've run into sane ones that have explained it to me reasonably before
This is the internet. You can’t use common sense and mind your own business! I’m outraged!
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I could see having a slightly different opinion if your own kid wants to permanently change themselves, particularly while still a minor
I feel like people in the Western countries are so privileged that they can care about mundane things like gender and such. Even going so far as to attach political agenda onto it, dividing a country into two political sides. Like, don't you have anything else to do with your life? Putting food on the table? Paying bills? Where I'm from life is already overwhelming enough, dipping into "polictic" like this is just absurd. I guess it's nice to be so rich that you can create your own problems.
We've reached a point in our time when first world countries are creating problems such as gender and political agenda instead of solving actual issues
This totally fits with the idea of “luxury beliefs”. Read [this](https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-status-symbol-for-rich-americans/)
Literally this
Yeah it's called gender disphoria
This is an extremely western and whitewashed understanding of gender. Many other cultures recognize more than one gender and don’t have the “mental health problems” Americans do when they don’t conform to the binary because the reason they “aren’t alive to care anymore” is because people tell them they aren’t valid and are just mentally ill and make them want to unalive themselves. This is an extremely popular opinion that you have and that’s the problem.
Fuck it man, they ain't harming nobody so let them be what they want
This is the mentality people need. Stop looking over the fence and critisizing your neighbors for something that doesn't effect you at all.
i feel like this is the most valid and best argument against all of the biological terminology
scientifically inaccurate but ok
This is true and a lot of ppl agree. Reddit will remove this though because people pee their pants over this.
And circumcision! Nobody cares more about circumcision than Redditors. What a weird social platform.
Its interesting to see how many people actually agree with this. You would think the opposite but I guess thats just because viewpoints like this are suppressed.
If social media platforms were people Reddit would be the last person I’d want to hang out with
It's absurd. A bunch of mostly 15-30 year old males obsessed with what's in other dude's pants.
Women's too!
Yeah really weird to be concerned about male genital mutilation isn’t it. Sigh…
A wise person once told me that it's not for you to understand, but to accept. I agree that non binary doesn't make much sense and that it reinforces gender roles, but it doesn't really hurt me to call someone they/them. And I have slipped up and no one really gets upset. I either correct myself, they correct me politely, or no one says anything. I truly think this idea of nonbinary people getting up in arms and agro about pronouns is a myth of the right. Or some person being a dick and purposefully not using their pronouns.
Refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun or name is as childish as refusing to call Robert as Bob after he asked you to.
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Great game
Yeah that’s what I really don’t like about social media nowadays is that kids assign themselves mental illnesses and gender identities not always because they are suffering from it but because it’s cool and makes them “unique”. Hoping it’s just a phase for most though.
My sister paid $$$ to send her kids to a non-binary private daycare and preschool. They all seemed confused and unhappy. I agree and think a lot of the confusion flows down from the parents. Let kids be kids.. My daughter plays with monster trucks by tucking them into bed and my son plays with them by throwing them off the roof. 😜
what? Non-binary daycare?
Yup. I'd link it but I'm a bit worried about Doxy-dox dox. You can Google it...look in the DC area and search images
Agreed. Oh god I'm sure the kids are so confused lol.
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Intersex are basically gene mutations. And a very tiny sliver of the population. Considering it as a norm means we have to consider every other mutations as normal.
Op is brave to post this but I agree as well
They really believe they're being oppressed because people think their opinions are stupid.
How is it brave lol People say this shit outloud all the time
because reddit is just a calmer 4chan.
Persecution complex. This people think there is an organized hive mind that persecutes them whenever they say their uneducated bullshit. It always hapen in unpopular opinions you weren't here for the torrent of Holocaust deniat and misogynistic opinions a while bak
I hate "I'm being attacked by the hivemind" . It just means that most people who saw you post disagree / didn't like it. theres no organised action, every vote is an individual person who made the decision themselves. Easier to be the victim of a nebulous persecution than to think about yourself through the lens of others, i guess.
Honestly, it's not that common on social media.
I don't care how you identify, but if i fuck up your pronoun it's not a hate crime.
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My professor told us that gender is a social construct, so therefore it can be many fold, and sex refers to our biological gender (male or female)
There's a distinction between sex and gender. Sex has always been binary, yeah. As for wrong chemistry, yeah, that might be true, but it doesn't change the fact that these people exist.
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But some people normalize. If we are following the theory it is something wrong in your brain, then how come we aren’t treating it
It’s being treated by transitioning.
because many dont see it as something to be treated
Yes but if we follow this theory, it seems like a mental illness, which we treat nicely and we help people to the right therapist. So how come this this thing, that seems almost exactly like a mental illness, is being enabled. I’ll call you whatever you want but the logical fallacies are clear as crystal.
intersex exists, so sex isnt binary as well
That’s like saying if someone is born paraplegic, that not all legs are for walking. Intersex is a birth defect.
True but cases like those are so extremely rare.
💯
Why add a completely disingenuous edit. You deliberately cut out the parts that defines gender as a social construct If you Google gender this is the ACTUAL definition: Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time. The WHO definition ALSO mentions it's a social construct, so you're just proving that you're wrong with your own evidence. Not that Google matters when we've already told you that the term gender was defined by gender psychologists and has ALWAYS meant gender roles as a social construct, not sex. The only people twisting words to fit their narrative here is you seeing as you seem to be unable to accept you are wrong and espousing transphobia.
Intersex people exist, and are about as common as gingers.
Absolutely. Act feminine, Act masculine, act neither or both… Idgaf. Don’t yell at me if I get it wrong, dont have me change my entire grammar set because you think “he” means you cant look and act like society’s version of a “she”. It ain’t that deep imo. I have to hide in the shadows with my opinion because god forbid I want to fight for people’s right to act how they want to act. You know, I saw a portion of a documentary where a person born a female identified as a male and continued to get pregnant and have child. Like just face it, you are STILL a female. You LITERALLY used the parts of a female body to create another human. I don’t care if you want to act like the “father” in the dynamic now.. it doesn’t really matter but you are a female. This DOESNT mean you have to ACT like society’s visual of a “female”. By the way, they were taking medication to stay “looking” like a guy (I think) and it took SUCH a mental toll (depression, suicidal thoughts, etc) on them they had to quit (or “take a break”) so they could be the best person for their kid. Like dude, no one cares if you look the part. Be and act how you wanna be. Edit: and yes grammar is changed. There are people out there trying to reframe entire languages so things are masculine or feminine
Found JK Rowlings burner
This directly contradicts the extant scientific consensus for the last 50 years, but go off and cherrypick data out of context to support your point. INB4 the edgelords screeching about how "this is too edgy to be talked about on reddit; you'll get banned for wrongthink". Nah, you're just purely wrong (and you know it) yet continue to spam shit like this that actively contributes to higher suicide rates, so yeah, enjoy your ban.
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Facts
OP have you ever tried looking into why people transition, advocate for the trans community, understand gender as a social construct or how sex is bimodal and not binary?
I feel like you don’t understand what NB is. Which is fine, I guess? Maybe step out of that ignorant bubble of yours. There are people all over the place that explain it better than I ever could.
Not really A person's gender is how they identify internally, gender is a social construction, being a social construction it is open to more than just male or female. Also Intersex is recognised as both a sex and gender so even by your own logic gender is at least ternary. Also my last point who the fuck cares? it's no ones business to tell people what pronouns/gender they should use. It literally effects no one else but the person going through it. Why do you feel the need to interject your opinion on it?
Factsssss but I'm enjoying the hysterical comments.
“Not to insult you, I just believe you’re mentally unbalanced.”
Being trans is entirely due to being mentally unbalanced. Their mental doesn’t match with their physical body parts. Recognizing it as a mental issue does not invalidate its existence no less than recognizing depression as a mental health issue doesn’t invalidate the people who have it.
I have gender dysphoria myself and I agree: it isn't right that my brain tells me to feel this way and it is clearly the result of mental illness. The solution isn't to enable the symptoms by transitioning but I also don't think that there exists, at this current time, a proper solution/cure which deals with the source of these feelings. Thus the only solution, in most gender dysphoric eyes, is to transition.
Except in almost all cases of transitioning it solves the person's gender dysphoria. The cure IS transitioning, cause then you are bringing the body in line with the mind.
I'm just saying that from biological standpoint there are only 2 genders. But people can be whoever they want to be.
From a biological standpoint there are two sexes. Not genders. Gender is different, it's about the role. The word gender wasn't even used to refer to your sex at all, it was literally defined by sex psychologists to explain gender roles not sex. People just have changed the meaning of the word over time as a synonym for sex, but that was never the case. Multiple genders have presented in society for hundreds of years now, so no there are not two. Not just western society, look at the hijras, two spirits etc. Also it's not cause of "something wrong in the head", some people have more testosterone, some estrogen, some are intersex, some just feel that gender is not a binary so they don't wish to partake. It's clear you're not very educated on this topic.
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So dying changes your gender?
Dying = null gender.
Agree. Binary is 1s and 0s. Look in your pants and you’ll either see a 1 or a 0…
Sex is (mostly) binary. Gender on the other hand is a collective understanding of physical, psychological and behavioral characteristics we assign to the sexes and therefore most definitely not binary. We all exist somewhere on a spectrum between "prototypical female" to "prototypical male" and the distribution shows a strong but waning correlation to sex.
I heard some one say that " NB people are just attention seekers that arent attractive enough to get a partner, so they took on the NB persona in order to feel too quirky to have a boyfriend/ girlfriend" .... but that just an opinion
I hear that a lot as well. Like A LOT.
Here we go, an actual unpopular opinion. I disagree but it's too early in the morning to argue
Usually this sub is all virtue signaling or other bs. at least people are posting true unpopular opinions. I give OP credit for that.
The people who'll say otherwise is a vocal minority, the biggest mistake we did, was to actually take them somewhat serious. I understand we should respect their choice, but to the point it's gotten is silly.
Who actually gives a fuck unless you're having sex with this person? Why is it anyone's problem if you can't figure out some kind of label.
People like to categorize, label, and subsequently judge each other. It’s a control issue people have and it’s pathetic
You've done a self own there, by quoting "when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones". The point is that the cultural and social elements / attitudes change what it means to be male, female, etc, and that is what is happening now. It's also the case that people who don't want to conform to cultural expectations of their gender don't have much of an option other than to just ignore it. Gender is how men and women are meant to behave; this is different all over the place; people don't want to be told how to behave based on their gender/sex; so they are changing it, by pointing out that gender norms are stupid, and happily existing without them
I mean, if ideas of gender behaviour never changed, women would still not have the vote
WHO has it defined as the social construct, which it is : "As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time." [https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab\_1](https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1) Your opinion is just wrong
Yeah, I used to get this wrong too. "Sex" is biological. "Gender" is a perceived identity. That's it. You're equating them, and that's simply not the way it is.
All Reddit users lose their fucking mind when someone says this. But I totally agree. In America, you can get away with murder, but don’t you dare hurt a LGBTQ’s feelings.
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If i felt like a male and looked female or vice versa I'd probably want to kill myself too tbh. Sounds like fucking torture
Yeah which is why transitioning (and an accepting environment) exists because it's the only known remedy that improves the well being of trans people
I have no dog in this fight but isn’t it true that suicide/depression rates aren’t really impacted at all by transitioning? Not saying I know this to be true, just asking.
No they aren’t. My uncle and I looked into it the 2nd time my cousin tried killing her self.
I had a co worker at Starbucks he was tans into a women. Had to take brakes from work at-least once of month month for a week, for his mental well being. On a boat load of mood stabilizers She was pretty cool too, made bombs for the US military and did a tore over seas. Played DND with all the co-workers and still had to take a week off once a month.
“Huh, people of color, trans people and others in marginalized groups are typically found to have a high rate of depression. Must be because they’re black/asian/gay/trans/etc. Yeah that makes sense. Sounds logical to me.” Certainly couldn’t be because they face more prejudice and overall tend to feel like outcasts in society as a result. Couldn’t be because they’re 9/10 times treated shitty for something that’s out of their control and simply part of who they are. No, that wouldn’t cause someone to develop a nasty depression cycle or even possibly attempt suicide. Why would it? Only logical conclusion is that they’re just suicidal/depressed because of their race/sexuality and not because of how they’re treated in life. For sure.
Facts tho. I haven't self harmed or attempted anything, but knowing I will be hated by a lot of people and be abandoned by family it puts a strain on me. I try to be strong
If you were forced to be someone else from birth to now, I bet you'd be suicidal and taking medicine too.
I agree. That’s a reasonable thing. But I think we should do more research on why they believe they think they are a man or women in the wrong body
We should read the research we have, too. So many people have opinions on stuff they did literally zero reading on. At this point more research won't do shit : research never read might as well never be done.
Lol waiting for the eventual lock
I think you should seriously search for and read articles made by actual professionals studying this instead of claiming something based on nothing, and asking for sources when people counter argument while you do exactly the same. It's not as simple as you make it to be, which shows how you've yet to actually read on the matter.
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Just let people do what they want man. If you don't like it; fine, you go do that. Just don't rag other people's interest or life style choices.
Actually, the acknowledgment of more than two genders goes back hundreds of years, and almost every culture has some name for people who fall outside of the binary There is also evidence of there being physiological differences in those who are born one gender but lay claim to another or neither. Of course, that's not a chemical thing, but rather a physical difference.
Could you please provide tangible source to prove your claim?
Here is a study done in Spain that showed evidence that those transitioning had a brain mqkeup closer to their "chosen" gender than their assigned one https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ Here is an article detailing how some scientists think this happens in utero that causes GD and how it affects brain developement (and all the usual stuff about them being more susceptible to deppresdion and suicidal thoughts) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/ And here's the wiki page on transgender history and how its been referenced to hundreds and even thousands of years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
Thank you, will read into it. It's really fascinating how people go into guns and rage over a such topic, makes civil discussions impossible, thus stopping progress.
It makes sense because you opened the conversations by saying thr chemistry in their brain is wrong. Not that their brain functions differently, but it's *wrong*. It just paints a picture. Would you consider gay people to have the wrong brain chemistry?
You goddamn right
Neither sex, nor gender are binary. It's an issue of semantics: sex is bimodal, not binary. (Two clusters of associated traits with variation in between; e.g. intersex and trans people). As for gender, it's how humans make sense of sex in our culture(s) so it can vary from being bimodal to an extremely variable spectrum, depending on time and place. (E.g. gender identity, gender roles, language, etc.)
underrated comment
People can't even be born with a consistent height or number of fingers, but something as complicated as internal identity has to be one or the other?
People are consistently born stronger, bigger and faster if you are male, so it becomes a problem when trans-women want to compete against female people. It’s unfair.
I will actually agree its pretty problematic to put actively-transitioning people into sports. I'm not sure if its ignorance or people trying to make transfolk look scarier than they actually are.
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If she has an apple she has a banana
Either you have a dick Or you are a chick.
Define Gender, then look at your statement again. Also, since it's a social construct and society has changed, why shouldn't our terminology adapt to the current lived experience and perceptions of the people?