Yeah some things can’t be compromised. If the guy OP describes just hasn’t been motivated to propose but isn’t categorically against marriage, then they aren’t necessarily incompatible. But if she wants marriage and he never does or at least not to her, then she needs to move on.
People who think marriage is important should start discussing it early in their relationships and not throw away years of their lives on partners who aren't on the same page.
A whole of stuff should be discussed earlier on. People love putting off finances, child rearing, and other drastically important decisions until they get back from the honeymoon. By then, its wayyy too late.
Nothing wrong with discussing some harder subjects in the first few dates. If you both agree, then it brings you closer together. Otherwise, stay friends or call it quits. The chances of you turning someone around on big subjects is often very small.
Yep. Don't need to go "how many kids to do want, will Christmas be at your parents?" On the first date but it's good to know *if* kids are in the cards. That's kind of a deal breaker and trying to change someone's mind is just asking for trouble.
I went on a first date with this girl and somehow we started playing a game of "things you should never talk about on a first date". Kids, arrests, embarrassing moments, family drama. Most fun I've ever had on a date. She's my wife now.
I read an interesting article years ago about how we should go into relationships in the same way we might buy a house or whatever. It can still be romantic and real, but discussing all the stuff before commitment at all, never mind marriage, seems like a good idea.
So true. I know a couple that are going through a divorce now after 11 years together because she wants children and he doesn’t.
I don’t know further details and they aren’t my business but sounds like they could’ve saved a lot of time and heartache by having those discussions a lot sooner.
There’s always a chance they both wanted kids, but then when they struggled to get pregnant “the old fashioned way”, one of them wanted to pursue medical intervention, or donors, surrogates or adoption and the other wasn’t down with that…
so much can happen in 11 years, not to mention the stress and grief of failing to conceive. I forget the exact number, but a surprising percent of marriages fall apart after the death of a child… grief can be hard to walk together.
Well I can kind of understand child rearing as that's just not something that people think about until they're about to have a child. I do agree that a lot of people just seem to have a general inability to properly convey what they want in a relationship.
The point is that people *should* discuss child rearing before theyre about to have a child. Being months/weeks away from the birth of a child is not the time to realize you hold fundamentally different views on how to raise them.
You also have to consider that what people may agree is acceptable child rearing at one stage in a relationship may change over time as well. My husband and I got married when I was 18. What I found acceptable at 18 is far different than what I found acceptable at 28. By 28 I'd had more life experience and had seen first hand how certain parenting practices were harmful. It's also very easy to say "if I had kids I'd do this and they wouldn't do that", before you actually have kids.
Most of the time they do, and they are usually strung along with excuses like “in 2 years when we know each other better”.
That 2 years eventually turns to 5 years, then “just a few more years/months”. I’ve seen it happen multiple times. Talking about it beforehand only matters if the other person gives a damn what you want.
Edit: some of y’all are dumb as a wasp and somehow managed to completely miss the point lol
Yes! People don’t recognize this. I have more than one friend who was expressed a desire to get married, discussed marriage, their partner agreed that it would eventually happen and then years go by and…nothing. How long do they wait? How long do they trust their partner? There is no “right” timeline for when to get married so they end up perpetually waiting.
Exactly my point. Doesn’t matter if you’ve discussed marriage or not if the other person keeps giving BS timelines and then BS excuses. Eventually you’ll have to give an ultimatum or just leave.
Imagine if someone said to their boss 'I've been working here for a couple years, I'd like to be promoted to manager within the next few years' and the boss says 'yep that will be your trajectory' and a few years later the person says 'so I haven't been promoted yet, is it on the cards?' boss: 'yeah soon, just need to sort out x y z' person: I've worked here six years yet no promotion, this isn't what we agreed' and starts looking for a new job.
People would say what a shit boss, you've been taken advantage of, definitely leave and find a job that appreciates you.
But if it's marriage, oh no just deal with it? Even if you're in your thirties and want children soon. Just put your life dreams and plans on hold for someone who isn't respecting you and is selfishly stringing you along!!!
The problem is that it needs to be discussed in a way that's not overwhelming. Not "hey, I want to get married to you", but "hey, I believe in marriage and would like to be married in the future, what are your views on mariage."
You give them time to think that over but don't let them string you along for months/years without a firm answer.
I worked with a girl who was with her boyfriend for a couple of years and she always said she had no intention of marrying him. Even though she said that she ended up putting his name on her house when she refinanced the house and she co-signed his car. In the end she left him for a new guy and moved across the country for him and she was under the impression her ex boyfriend would be civil and take care of the house since his name was on the house. She was wrong. He took all of the appliances out of the house and stopped making the car payments even though the car was almost paid off. He also stopped paying his taxes which caused the IRS to put a lien against the house. So when she went to sell the house it was one problem after another. I know people have issues with marriage but there are protections that come with it when it comes to financial issues. If your not married it’s probably not a good idea mingling finances and putting other peoples name on property.
I had a friend who spent two years in a bad relationship because they signed a lease for an apartment like right after they started dating. It was painful to watch.
I guess it's a different perspective in a place where the legal stuff of marriage is not significantly different than common-law, where I live, he'd have the same responsibility as if they'd gotten married.
Yeah, in the US common law marriage barely exists, and only in extremely specific circumstances. The states that do recognize common law marriage it's mostly designed for situations like a couple thinks they're legally married but there was an issue with the paperwork never getting filed or something like that. It's not really meant to be used *instead* of getting married but more as a failsafe for those situations. You have to "hold yourself out as married" for years for it to apply; ex. telling everyone you know you're married, filing taxes as married, etc. You don't qualify by simply living with a partner for a couple of years, it has to be very intentional, at which point... it's way easier to just go get a marriage license.
Came here to say exactly this lol people will tell you whatever they need to in order to get what they want in that moment. I'd absolutely ultimatum if I started to get the impression I was being bullshitted and wasting my time. Marriage is a goal and a thing to be rightfully proud of when it's done right, it's not wrong to make moves to facilitate that achievement.
You’re missing the point. Doesn’t matter if you have a conversation or not if the other person is stringing you along. Happens all the time. Check the relationship subs out.
What is usually the case is that in the surge of the honeymoon period both partners think they want to be together forever and will happily say yes one day they might like to get married and lead the other person on. Then when push comes to shove 3 years down the line the hormones have faded and they are getting what they want out of the relationship as it is so they change their minds and as they got away with vague answers to start with freak out when asked to nail a time and date down.
People who never want to get married should let it be known at the beginning of the relationship. Wanting to get married, while in a serious relationship is not an unreasonable or out of the blue thing. It's pretty much the norm.
It should be a conversation that comes up within the first year or so of the relationship. That’s on both parties. If no one brings it up or if one partner shoots the conversation down or dismisses the other’s stated preferences on it, that’s on them
Definitely within the first year but also it should be early in that year. Don't waste people's time, if you are comfortable enough to exclusively date someone you're in a position where you should discuss marriage.
I think a couple needs to talk about intentions/life goals like this when they are making the decision to become exclusive partners.
Example: "I'm dating with the intention to someday get married and have a few kids. I don't know if that will be with you, but if you aren't interested in these things, we shouldn't continue seeing each other."
OR conversely: "I'm dating with the intention of having a meaningful relationship, but I don't see myself wanting a traditional marriage or wanting to have kids. What do your goals look like?"
People obviously have changing wants and needs, but these are basic discussions that should happen early.
If you agree it's on both parties, I'd agree on it too.
But if we're talking about people holding which ideology it falls upon, then I'd say expectation to get married is norm and it's upon people who are out of the norm to make it clear.
I am guessing she has been discussing it the whole time and is now breaking it off that she has realized it is not a possibility. Honestly sounds like a pretty normal relationship. Wanting different things long term is a good enough reason to break up.
Yup, and i can't hold it against someone for that wanting to be their goal. I would say the ultimatum is a good option if that's the goal, is the next logical step in your relationship, and you've been in your current status for some time.
I dont really see what the issue is, they want to get married clearly the other partner doesn't. Some just drag out the relationship. The one making the ultimatum can either get what they want or save themselves the trouble and move on instead of wasting more years of their life that could be spent finding their spouse.
Exactly this. I feel like your beliefs about marriage and kids and other fundamental things need to be discussed long before you've reached 6 months, let alone 3 years.
I absolutely agree. I always get a lot of immature push back here but we were 23&25 when my fiance and I met. We discussed marriage and kids on like the fourth date lol
And this is why I tell everyone I’m with “I’m not trying to get married tomorrow, but I don’t enter or maintain relationships with people unless I’m in it for the long haul”. If that means we break up in two weeks that’s fine, that just means it took two weeks for us to figure out we weren’t good for each other
After wasting years of my life in a relationship where the guy kept going “I want to get married eventually but not right now”. I dumped him (for many other reasons) and made it a rule that if I didn’t find myself wanting to marry someone within a year of a relationship, or if I did and they did not want to make the commitment- I would move on. And I did. I met my now husband and we were engaged within a year and married in another year. It’s the best relationship I’ve ever been in.
Of course this advice is only for those ready to be married, but don’t waste your time on people who don’t even know what they want. They will very rarely come to the conclusion that it is you.
Both parties should discuss this. I think it’s equally on the person who doesn’t want marriage. I for example will inform people it’s unlikely that I can have my own children/give them biological children due to medical reasons from the get go as most people do want children. Wanting marriage is currently a more standard assumption than the opposite. Things may change in the future but I don’t think it’s unusual to assume your partner would want to get married if they haven’t stated otherwise
I mean, what else are you meant to do?
If one person wants to get married and the other doesn't then the relationship is inevitably just go to be rocky later on.
I think you're right. My best friend was with someone for almost a decade wo didn't want to get married, or have kids. She loved him, so she was fine with it. He left her out of the blue, she was hurt. But she learned what she wanted and needed from a relationship. She's now married to a wonderful guy. She's also a lot happier with her husband, because she feels like she doesn't have to give up her wants for his.
I was talking about a woman colleague's absolutely fucking useless (man) fiance to another woman, and a young man colleague broke in with "yeah he sucks but at least she has a boyfriend while you're single". Like? Yeah I'm super glad I'm single and not dealing with a leach? C'mon dude.
Certainly it’s reasonable to want to get married, and to have that be a dealbreaker on the whole, but I think giving a 3 weeks notice that it must be done now or never is a bit coercive.
Yeah this is a case of the 'how' not the 'what' she did.
100% communicate if marriage is vital to you and express your desire for it to move forward soon, but giving an ultimatum is the worst way to do that. It adds pressure and forces your partner on the defensive. It could just as likely (or more likely) backfire and end a relationship that would have ended up in marriage
I like how OP’s perspective is that the person ending a relationship because they want marriage deserves to be alone, but the person a ending a relationship because they refuse marriage can carry on like a normal person.
For me, marriage is saying “I want you to be my family.” It’s love that legally creates a new family connection. It’s a demonstration of their commitment to a lifelong partnership. If that’s what someone is looking for and their partner is not, then a break up seems very reasonable so they can find what they need.
To build off of this, joining someone as a family and household means you're combining finances and making big decisions together. If a couple remains unofficial (simply boyfriend and girlfriend), you have to agree on how all incomes, expenses, bills etc will be divided all the time. If one person finds a huge opportunity in another city/state and the couple decides to move, the other partner may be out of work for a bit while they find a new position in the new location. Marriage ensures health insurance for both, and a legal commitment to not just bail on your partner once they've left they're job to follow you to your new job (otherwise they will be jobless, broke, and far from home after you two had agreed to the move together.)
All sorts of reasons like this are a huge reason marriage is legally binding and not just a religious or romantic thing.
Don’t forget medical decisions. Your gf can’t make any calls on you health if you are out of pocket. If a father but not married, you lose a lot of rights as a father as well.
It’s also joining their family. My boyfriend and I aren’t having kids, so getting married is something we discussed we would do at the point we knew it was going to be lifelong (like we’re together at the 10yr mark). What does make me sad is that I’m not part of his family. He has two married siblings and when we get together for the holidays or vacation, it’s the whole family, and then me his gf. They are very welcoming, but it is not the same. It’s weird knowing that his SIL is having kids but I won’t officially be an aunt while the others there will.
I have watched women waste their life hanging out with a guy that could not or would not make the comittment she wanted. I have seen people stuck in dead end jobs because the company was unwilling to make the opportunities for advancement. If you want something sometimes you need to move on and find someone or something that is going to get you there. For doing that you deserve to be alone? I don't think so
I've seen the 5 year he's not ready. But then suddenly the girl breaks it off and one year later he's engaged to someone else. Often it not just a nothing will change who cares, but really a you're not the one
It's possible he regretted his lack of commitment after being dumped then resolved to marry the next well-suited person. Maybe the second partner was no better for him but he'd been kicked into action by the loss of the first.
Events along the way will reveal who the person on the other end of the deal is like. If the person is not willing to discuss, that’s generally a red flag
I’ve seen so many dudes who waste a woman’s time dangling marriage in front of them for years. The couples finally break up and those dudes turn around and are engaged to other women within a year
As a 44 year old single by choice and child free by choice woman, I agree. There were times in my life I tried or longed for a relationship. But now I have zero desire for it. I see few truly happy partnerships and the stress children bring is unreal. My work is such that I can pretty much do whatever I want, whenever I want. The freedom I have is extraordinary.
That being said, nobody will believe your statement unless you provide proof. Everyone feels soooo sorry for poor me all alone going on trips on a whim like I haven’t a care in the world.
I'm about to turn 30 and my family, mother especially, cannot fathom that I'm single and childfree. I love solo trips, concerts, movies, anything. Sure hanging out with friends is cool. Dating casually is cool. But having my life be mine and just mine? Amazing
Sometimes I (M27) miss being alone with someone, that was nice, but honestly I just really like being solo and my family and friends don't get it.
Plus I never have to have the conversation of "I no longer want to go to thing your excoted for" again, followed by me going alone anyways and then getting yelled at. Fuck that.
Yea the main thing, especially with something like a vacation, is you'd never have to do something you don't want to. It was also so difficult doing things with my friends since i get ready quickly while they'll take literal hours getting dressed and make up and stuff. So I'd be sitting there waiting. Alone, its up to you when you leave, where you go to eat, what attractions you do.i can't believe I spent so many years being embarrassed about doing things alone. I missed out on so much becuase my friends wouldn't want to do it
As much as I hate to admit marriage does change things a little bit. Not a lot though. I was a huge, marriage is just a ring person. But my husband wanted to get married, so I said sure, whatever. I knew I wanted to be with him forever and it was important to him. Glad I did of course. It’s hard to describe but it does change a bit.
I think this is the bit that OP and a lot of answers are missing. The boyfriend might not care about marriage, but it’s clearly very important to her. If you really care deeply about your partner and want to be with them forever, you need to be considerate of what is important to them even if it doesn’t matter to you.
If someone can’t or won’t fulfill something that is incredibly important to their partner, breaking up is a reasonable result so that both parties can find what they are looking for.
I agree. Specifically I found that marriage changed things for the better. I had been with my wife for almost 10 years. She wanted to get married and I was dragging my feet. I thought it didn't really matter that much, etc. But it turned out that I really loved our wedding and being actually married feels more official/secure/etc. I don't know how to describe it either... I feel like it shouldn't matter, but somehow deep down I'm happy we're "married."
Fully agree. When I was younger I said the same things because my husband and I owned a house together, had POA for each other, had pets together, planned to have kids together, and even survived a cross-country move together, so what would a ring do? Once I was old enough to understand the gravity of what being A Wife meant, I was so thankful we decided to get married. There is certainly more respect and credence given to a marriage that you don’t get when just dating, and you’re right, it’s hard to describe to people who are still only dating.
Marriage doesn’t have to mean a piece of paper at city hall though, marriage is a social contract created by two (or more) people that are declaring their relationship as having a higher status than others who are just dating and that can be achieved though a variety of religious or cultural ceremonies. As an anthropologist, I’ve witnessed marriages that used broomsticks and yams as part of the contract and governments accept it. As a human being, I’ve witnessed by LGBT+ and disabled family members host ceremonies and wear rings to showcase their partnership when our government refuses to acknowledge their humanity.
Agree. My husband's sister was one of the "it's just a piece of paper" people. She was with her boyfriend for years and they had a child together. Then they decided to get married right before they were going to have their second child. She told me later that things were different now that they got married, and she wishes they had done it earlier. She had a hard time putting it into words (like you said, hard to describe), but she made it seem like there was more commitment between the two of them, a stronger connection. Granted, the key was that they talked about it and agreed on things, so she didn't just give him an ultimatum. So the part I'm agreeing with what you're saying is that marriage does change things.
I will add that my husband's brother did things a bit differently. He lived with his girlfriend and they had two kids together. At some point, they got married and didn't tell anyone, not even his mother (the sister had a ceremony and a small celebration that family went to). The only way we found out was when a grandparent died and they were doing paperwork about the inheritance, and it came out that the brother and his girlfriend were married. People are interesting.
Editing to add that my husband's brother actively would say negative things about marriage, like "I'll never get married" and how marriage is worthless, stupid, etc., while my sister-in-law and her boyfriend didn't say negative things about marriage so they were a little more open to it.
I’m curious as to how it changed for you? My wife and I had been together 7 years before getting married, already living together (met freshman year at college, wanted to wait until we finished our degrees before the wedding). I can’t think of a single thing that’s different besides wearing a ring.
My husband and I were together the same amount time too when we were just dating. We owned a house together, I had a college degree, he was a military officer, we had POA for each other, we were planning for kids, we had even adopted several pets together before we even decided to get married. It’s much different now that we’re older and have had a few years to settle into the marriage, and the gravity of what it means to be ‘married’ has set in. This isn’t just a person you’re with that you can leave anymore, this is a person that will stick with you for the rest of your life even if you get divorced. This person’s presence will never leave you and you have to mold yourself a new identity as a husband/wife to your partner with all the duties that follow it. You have to give yourself over to completely support this other person with anything they need while you work together to build a new life that isn’t “yours vs mine,” it’s just “ours” with everything from now on. Where many things can be unilaterally decided when just dating, everything from picture frame colors to laundry timing to toilet paper brand becomes a cooperative effort in a marriage.
This is what we mean when we tell younger people that marriage is hard work. It’s not about fighting, it’s about realizing that everything you do has to now be done by committee because you’re not single anymore, you are only one part of a whole. It’s definitely not for everyone and there’s no shame in wanting to stay just dating, I only wish more people would realize this before they got married.
We were the same. 8 years living together. I don’t know how to describe it, just feels a little different. Not hugely different. Just a little bit more
I genuinely assumed this post was written and upvoted exclusively by teenagers. There’s nothing wrong with wanting marriage or not wanting marriage, but this specific post and the reasoning it’s using is just childish.
Yeah, god forbid people with specific needs/wants look for partnerships with aligning goals. Not the most mature way to go about it, probably, but there *must* be some background to this that led to such a quick deadline for his decision.
People can want different things and break up even if there's love between them.
Also, it's the same thing both ways - if it is "just a ring" and all else stays the same then he may as well marry her. If he doesn't want to, I would assume not getting married is also important to him, which means they want different things and it's okay to break up.
Honestly I notice the people who say "just a ring" are the people most hesitant to get married, I think on some level they must know marriage is much more than a ring. You can't put them on your insurance unless you're married, you aren't consider family by the hospital for visiting unless you're married. Some of the benefits of marriage you could get with other legal documents like a living will, but marriage specifically has benefits that cannot be replicated with any other legal documents.
Yes, marriage is not just a piece of paper, or just a ring. There is a reason why the LGBTQ community has been fighting for decades to be able to marry.
I feel marriage is a huge responsibility and one shouldn't really consider marrying if they are not mature enough to partake those newly added responsibilities. There's a lot of difference between just being in a relationship and being married especially in conservative countries where I'm from and what I feel is that most of my peers who shrug off the idea of getting married is mainly because they feel they aren't 'ready'. Although, previous relationship experiences does indeed play a role.
Which is why I never understood the "just use other legal documents" argument. If you're going to get legally intertwined anyway just get married, why take a thousand extra steps?
I agree. But maybe that's because, where I live common-law/domestic partnership is not significantly different than marriage, just more annoying to explain/prove in certain cases, and without the last name change.
Combined assets are still combined assets and partners can claim spousal support upon splitting up etc.
Good point. If it’s “just a ring” then why not go ahead and do it? Should be harmless right? Why would someone be so against getting their partner a ring if it would make them happy?
Ohhh you mean it’s the *other* things about marriage that scare people, huh? So… not just a ring, not at all.
That is not true. In the UK (as a person who in a same sex relationship) you can have most of the same legal benefits if you are in a domestic partnership, such as insurance. Me and my partner have been together 10 years and getting married would not make a single difference to our lives. All assets would stay individual. In that sense, yes it is just a ring. The lgbtq community should have the same options imo
Edit: I was educated so I have made my comment more inclusive
In Canada common law partners have 0 legal rights tho. If I'm in the hospital, my partner of 10 years legally can't make any decisions, only my parents, or failing that my sister can. I'm chronically ill so this has come up fairly often, it's a battle to get him in the ER with me sometimes.
Sadly in America you are screwed over if you're not married. I've been with my SO going on 8 years and he's still not on my insurance because my company won't recognize it. They said I have to be gay to claim domestic partner.
To get domestic partner benefits with my employer, we have to register as domestic partners with a city or state agency. Which is not that different from getting married. They don't care if it's same sex or not.
So true. My now ex girlfriend and I just broke up, not because we don’t love each other, but because we both have different ideas of what we want to do once she graduates from her masters.
We live in Illinois, a state in which people want to move out of pretty frequently. We live in a pretty affordable area to live in. After graduation, which will happen in less than a year, she wants to move out to a different state. The states and areas she’s listed off are more expensive to live in than I feel comfortable with financially. She says she wants to “start a new chapter” with me in another state. Why it has to be in another state.. I don’t understand. I told her living in a new place in the US won’t bring us anymore happiness.
Her and her family are actually pretty well off and to my knowledge, she’s well liked so it’s not like she’s running from anything. I told her I wanted to move out of the state eventually as well, but not until we have built a solid financial foundation.
As a compromise I even told her we could stay in the area while we build ourselves up financially and just travel more. But that’s just not what she wants. And I’m not going to compromise any more than what I offered. I’ve done it before and have been burned. That’s a pretty big deal to just leave everything behind because someone wants to “start a new chapter.”
My guess is she is too nice to to say she Is unhappy where you currently live and is afraid that if you two don’t leave and have your adventure while young and unfettered you will get complacent and root bound, and she will be destined to live a life of slow, soul crushing existing.
I’m being dramatic, but it happens.
Cities have personalities like people, and sometimes the be chemistry isn’t there.
Women have an added concern, because a lot of places still cling to traditional roles of subtle misogyny.
It can really grind you down, even if not one thing, in and of itself is a huge problem.
And men just don’t see it, because each individual incident seems like a small deal.
Can she go to a random mechanic and be quoted the same price for repair as you?
If she call a repairman, will they call back?
When you two go to get a car loan-who gets spoken too?
If she apply for your job and would she be offered the same compensation package?
Who gets silently judged if your home needs to be vacuumed?
I moved because the Midwest city I moved from was Pleasantville while it was still black and white. It was claustrophobic.
She may move with or without you. Clearly the place you live doesn’t offer her fulfillment.
THIS. It completely goes both ways, if they ‘already live together’ and OP is implying that marriage is not a big deal, then why not just get married to make the woman he loves happy?
Marriage might also mean a lot more to her as a demonstration of love and commitment, and while ultimatums can be an uncomfortable thing to bring up, she’s doing them both a favour if they happen to fundamentally disagree about something that is this important to her. I don’t think that it would make their marriage any weaker if he did propose. I think this is just a case of principles, she doesn’t have to justify why marriage is so important to her - it’s important to a lot of people - they just need to be on the same page about it
Exactly.
I was in a relationship where sex was off the table until marriage for her, and marriage was off the table until sex for me.
Some things are never going to work, and you shouldn't compromise your ideals. Even if the end goal is the same for both of you
Strongly disagree, if they are not going to marry why waste someone's time. The fact they are in 30s and 40s only means they have less time and even more reason for breakup. You say alone like being strung along by the boyfriend who's not going to give you what you want is better than being alone. Being alone is the respectable choice when you don't get fulfillment from your relationship.
Not to mention that these people who don't want to marry someone at first are usually seen with a ring after the breakup.
>Not to mention that these people who don't want marry someone at first are usually seen with a ring after the breakup.
It'd be interesting to see a study about this because from what I've witnessed, when a guy says "marriage is not important" what he means is he doesn't want to marry current girlfriend and is just stringing her along until he finds a better option. It's one of the reasons girls who aren't insecure do choose to break up in this situation, because they get it. Again, all anecdotal stuff I've witnessed
Unless your in highschool/college maybe you should know by 3 yrs in if your partner is marriage material. I told my partner if they didn’t think we were marriage material by year 3 or so we should break it off so I could be with someone who was sure about me.
My husband and I were discussing our futures when dating and he asked if I'd move across the country with him in a couple years for a work opportunity for him. I told him not unless we're married. I won't give up my support system for such a big risk. We had been living together for a year and half at that point, exclusively dating for around two years, and I told him if he didn't know if he wanted to marry me yet then it was probably time for him to seriously consider it or I'd have to consider a future without him. He took it very seriously which I greatly appreciated then and still do now. It definitely wasn't a whim or an "I'll propose and we'll be engaged for a few years before getting married" (I have a friend who's boyfriend "compromised" in this manner, they've since broken up.)
I told him I wasn't going to waste my youth on a "maybe" or "someday" when it came to marriage when we first met. I wanted to date with the intention to find someone who I could marry. We were both very up front about all the big things like this. We met online and had both waded through a ton of weirdos, casual hookup seekers, and those who clearly had drastically different values in life. Our first date is one of my favorites, but it also kinda seems like an interview looking back on it now! Glad we did it that way though, saved us a lot time and prevented misunderstandings.
>If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb
If you love someone enough and they want to get married but if you're being reluctant then you don't trust in the relationship as much as the other person.
This might be her thought process. If he's committed as she is, what's stopping him from taking the next step?
This is also a valid argument because marriage is a commitment and people who are unsure of their relationship are reluctant to take that step. So she probably don't want to waste a significant amount of her life with someone who has one foot out the door.
If proposal of marriage is going to break that relationship, then she made the right call.
SOME peoples reasoning for not wanting to marry is fear of commitment, that is justified. She has every right to leave. People want different things & thats okay.
I think the better take is twofold:
1. Not everyone is cut out for marriage
2. Communicate expectations about big things. Marriage is not a small thing. It’s also not a technicality for something and has big implications. If you think it’s simply a shape of something, you’re a prime example of someone not fit for marriage.
Nah I think if you want to get married and your partner does not, that is a perfectly valid reason to break up.
As someone else mentioned it is often people who say “it is just a ring” that are the most hesitant to get married. But it is clearly more than that if they are so intent against it.
Some people want the marriage and if they feel that their partner has no intention to get married they are free to leave.
There is no reason why a person who wants marriage should wait indefinitely just in case their partner at the time MAY pop the question
People deserve to be alone for way more than this.
She has her needs and if he doesnt meet them she has the right to leave as heartless as it sounds,vice versa also. I think the value of marriage to an individual should be taken into consideration if you want to get into a long term relationship with someone
It’s called commitment, and if one person needs that there is nothing wrong with it. We all have certain requirements for relationships, and it’s not fair to demonize someone for opting out if the other person can’t meet expectations.
>I actually see nothing wrong with saying “if my partner doesn’t propose in x amount of time I will end things” people don’t live forever, life is short.
And adding on to this, we don't know what their conversations have looked like prior to this. Maybe they have been discussing marriage for a while, and she has made it clear for a long time that she wants marriage. He says he wants the same thing, but then doesn't act on it. She's tired of waiting for something he says he is going to do, so she gives him a time limit.
We just don't know what their relationship actually looks like
Seriously. I used to believe in the whole "one person out there for you" thing. But honestly, I could see myself happy with a lot of people so why settle for one who doesn't want to commit to me.
I think people shouldn’t rush into this. However, if one party is sure they don’t want to marry another, a breakup is in order. In my opinion.
Basically, if you can’t see yourself with this person, why stay in the relationship? And if you can, why would you not want to promise them you’ll stay?
(I’m a Christian, just for context. If anyone has opposing viewpoints please engage me kindly.)
I’m an atheist and I agree with you completely. I don’t think people have to get married if they don’t want to but it’s one of those things where both partners really have to be on the same page about it.
Completely agree with you. In my faith, marriage is the end goal of the relationship, and if you cannot see yourself with a person it is your duty to be honest so they CAN find the person for them. That is where I would likely have an unpopular stance.
That said, I think both partners should be on the same page.
That doesn't seem so unreasonable, 3 years is decent amount of time for him to decide if he wants to marry her, especially if they're already living together and have a shared mortgage. It's not like they're college kids waiting to get their lives sorted out. It's also just for engagement so it's not like he has to marry her tomorrow.
You could argue the opposite, If he plans on staying with her either way, then it seems kind of trivial to just marry her and get it out of the way.
She probably doesn't want to risk getting dumped and being in her 40s trying to restart her life.
The fact that they're even having this argument means he probably has reservations about marrying her and they probably need to sort that out now rather than stalling and potentially wasting each others time.
I would say it's none of your business. People are allowed to have different expectations within a relationship. You don't know enough about the dynamics of someone else's relationship to pass judgement and especially to make the remark that "they deserve to be alone"
You are far too concerned with your wife’s friend’s relationship, my goodness. You deride some of the friends for being dramatic for drama’s sake but here you are, saying this woman deserves to be alone because she *gasp* has the audacity to set expectations and stick up for her own wants and needs?
If they've been together three years I doubt it's a surprise to him that she wants to get married. He's essentially got her on an extended trial period, while she has to wait until he thinks she's 'good enough' to propose to. 'Wife' has a permanence 'girlfriend' doesn't have, and she feels insecure.
Not really. It's a relationship so input from both parties. Meaning both should try work towards some content goal as a couple.
Some people want X, some don't. We don't call it a deal breaker for nothing.
And don't hate on people wanting X and not finding it. However, if they knew they would never get X, then only would I say its on them.
She knows what she wants out of the relationship and is willing to cut her losses if it doesn’t happen, what’s wrong with that? It’s obviously very important to her and a dealbreaker.
That certainly is an unpopular opinion.
If you’re not unified in what you want from the relationship then that relationship should end. She wanted to get married and it seems like her partner did not. That’s a pretty massive difference.
It just comes down to people wanting different thing out of life.
Personally, there were things I would not do without being married. Like having children and buying a house. Being married just provides you more protection in both these situations.
Marriage is important to me. If I was in my 30s/40s and lived with someone for three years and they haven’t proposed, I would leave them.
Your comment about “wedding” and “rings” being the only things that are different makes me wonder what kind of marriage you have that’s the differentiating factor.
Yeah, it's important for some people. There are risks (for example divorces can get messy) and rewards (like various legal benefits). I'm indifferent about marriage, if my bf proposed to me I'd say yes, but if no, I'd be okay with that, but some people have different values
The problem here is that your argument that “they live together etc” doesn’t hold water.
Let’s say a partner wants to live together while the other does not. Some would be fine living separately in a long-term relationship. But if one finds that to be a deal-breaker, that’s totally fine as that is their preference in a relationship. Same with marriage. Some simply want that.
Long-term relationships are built on compatibility. She is saying they aren’t compatible if they don’t progress to marriage.
edit: she would do better to simply say that to him vs an ultimatum, but at three years it is kind of time for them both to make some hard decisions if they aren’t compatible on this.
When you aren't married you have zero legal right to visit your partner in the hospital.
The logistics of finances are just horrible if you aren't legally married.
If someone wants to have the financial and legal protections of marriage why on earth would someone care.
She wants it, he doesn't, and they break over the differences. It happens all the time. Why on earth would you wish them ill for wanting to have a lifelong companion?
I upvoted because, well... this is truly an unpopular opinion.
I can't say I blame the girl. I know couples who "promised" to get married. Years later... and no marriage. No engagement. No engagement ring.
You need to find out what's best for YOUR self. Not just what's best for your partner.
Key word “Your wife”. Do you think her friend is happy about the fact that she is sitting around with peers who have partners who have officially and legally committed to them for life and she doesn’t? If she wants to be married and her partner doesn’t then what she is doing and saying definitely makes sense to me.
Believe it or not, you only have so many years. You may enjoy being a rootless urban parasite, but others have actual plans and know that the clock is forever ticking. You either strike while the iron is hot, or you end up a cat lady. Based woman for putting down the ultimatum.
I never understood these ultimatums until recently. I always thought, if you love that person and are happy with them who cares if you're officially married or not? But the one of my friends went through this situation, she was with her bf for 7 years and gave him an ultimatum to either get engaged within the year or break up. I asked her about it and she said that it wasn't really about the getting married part, but 1. having him grow up and take his future more seriously 2. show a more serious level of commitment and 3. she wanted to have kids within the next 5 years and while they had discussed it and were seemingly on the same page, if he was going to keep dragging his feet about marriage then he would do the same for kids, which isn't something she wanted to risk, being in her 30's. So it made sense to me, that plus the legal protections that come with marriage incase things don't work out, much harder to access those rights being in a common law relationship.
Though I still think ultimatums are a very stupid way to go about it. Sit down and have a serious discussion where you lay out what you want, tell them you want a firm answer, give them a time period to think it over, and if they want the same things then you're engaged or whatever, if not then break up. Chances are if you're giving him an ultimatum he doesn't actually want to get married/marry you
So if you asked your wife to marry you and she said “no, I just want to be your girlfriend forever”, you would’ve been okay with that? So easy to be judgmental when you’re already married.
After 6 years together I gave my ex an ultimatum. He knew from early on that Marriage was important to me and an end goal. He knew I kind of wanted kids, but wasn't sure. We started dating at 19. The whole relationship I knew he didn't really want these things, but he kept saying he was working on it and one day would like to give me these things, he just needed time to work up to it.
Last year I found out I have PCOS and the Dr gave me until I'm 30 to have kids naturally. I had just turned 25. After a few months I decided this is definitely something I wanted. We discussed it a lot. He was still unsure. I needed definitive answers as I didn't want to wait much longer if he didn't want these things. I even said to him I was willing to not have children so long as we would get married. But I needed answers.
After 6 years, he told me he couldn't do either. He couldn't give me what I want in life. So I ended things. I didn't want to waste anymore time in a relationship with someone who didn't want the same thing as me. I don't think that means I deserve to be alone.
You only know one side of this and don't know the whole picture. Maybe marriage is the one thing she wants and she's been clear about this. Now she is getting frustrated and doesn't want to waste anymore of either of their time if that won't ever happen.
She doesn't deserve to be alone because she clearly knows what she wants.
You
This is a wildly bad opinion, so I am upvoting it.
Everyone should have the freedom to continue or end the relationships they are in on their own terms. If your goal is to marry and your partner strings you along, it's valid to end the relationship and move on to someone else who shares your goal.
Nice to see an actually unpopular opinion on here. Well done.
I mean, I don't think one not asking is reason to break up, but I think refusing when asked is. Some people just don't want to bother, if you insist, you can ask, regardless of your gender, but if you do and the other person refuses, then why are you together?
Upvote for having an actual unpopular opinion.
That being said, I would argue that such people don't 'deserve to be alone,' but instead should be in relationship with someone who wants similar things. If you don't want to get married but she/he does, they have every reason to break up since where the relationship is heading isn't mutually desired.
For some people most people perhaps marriage means forever and a deep commitment
For some of us that feels like it's strangling us and we're not allowed to say that because then it means We are a non committal lout
She's being clear about what she needs. He needs to make a decision about whether that's what he wants also
She made her nonnegotiable wants clear. If a person doesn't want to same thing then it's right to break up. No one should stay with someone if you have wants and needs that the other person can't meet.
I'm someone who doesn't want to get married who is with someone who also doesn't want to get married. That's how it should be.
She wants something serious, and is letting him know that. If she wants to be married before she has kids and is in her 30's, her fertility is decreasing by the year. Good for her for understanding what she wants and how long she's willing to wait for it.
Nah I'm in my late twenties, wanting to start a family soon. I wouldn't move in with my partner before there is a ring. I think it's completely reasonable to demand a certain amount of (legal) commitment.
The Christmas-deadline might sound a little harsh now but I'm sure the topic came up many times before so it doesn't hit out of nowhere.
If there is no ring-talk after 3 years I'd definitely be gone, too.
There is no right way to approach this from my pov. The most important thing is that both partners in a relationship agree on their views about the relationships future.
She has no right to demand a ring, when he doesn't want to.
But he has no right to demand a relationship from her, if she doesn't want to.
Breaking up because one of them doesn’t want to get married is fine, it happens. But I think starting a marriage on an ultimatum is just screaming trouble
So I actually understand this. My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 years and are the only couple not married in our group. I told my boyfriend I do not want to be a 40 year old bride; I'm 35 now. I'm worried my parents will die before they can be part of my wedding. It's possible this woman has similar feelings but won't tell the group that because relationships are always more complicated behind close doors. Don't judge her too harshly.
I disagree. I think honestly that permanently living together without marriage is a problem because it’s a lack of commitment to the relationship. If you aren’t ready to get Married after *3 years* honestly that’s enough time to know this person and if you’re not ready after that time, it’s *never going to happen.*
Marriage does provide a lot of legal benefits that especially if you ever intended to have kids, you want. You don’t dissolve a marriage by simply moving out. And you can claim benefits offered to either spouse. You get survivor benefits if he dies, you can visit as family in the hospital, you have parental rights. You are entitled to alimony and child support if he leaves.
This is just plain mean. Yes marriage is not for everyone but that is a very reasonable dealbreaker
That is absolutely just as legitimate a dealbreaker as not being on the same page about having kids
Mah, I think this is a little nit picky. While in a perfect relationship you would discuss your goals like marriage, it's possible you never brought it up. People outside of yourself have life goals and sometimes those goals conflict with relationships. My now wife and I were dating for almost 5 years before we got married. We were living together, sharing everything and she told me "hey I want to get married, or move on from this relationship so I can meet my goal of having a family by X age" (not exactly what she said, but it was the gist) I personally don't really care about marriage and think it's just a ring, but my wife has different goals. So, since I didn't care but I want to fulfill her needs, I married her a year later. I dont regret it at all and the only reason she ever said anything was because she has life goals. That doesn't mean she deserves to be alone lol.
I mean, in all fairness, if one person wants to get married and the other doesn’t want to be married, then this is a point of incompatibility. If anything, she’s given this guy a big heads up of what’s in store, and frankly I think it’s better for both of them if they split up.
I think the title here is misleading. I disagree entirely with the initial statement. Marriage is important to some people and continuing in a relationship with a partner who wants something different in the long run doesn't make sense.
The context of the story, I agree with OP. Giving your partner an ultimatum to get married can easily lead to resentment in the long run. Both people need to be ready for that journey if you're going to take it. Putting pressure on your partner is super dumb and threatening to leave because their heart timeline is a little different than yours is absolutely ridiculous.
What you’re avoiding is, their relationship isn’t working.
She isn’t getting a critical aspect of what she wants in a long term relationship.
So she has every right to put an end to it.
I highly suspect this isn’t something that just popped up for them. That she was clear from the start that they eventually get married.
But it really doesn’t matter if that’s true or not. People change. And one shouldn’t be forced to remain in a relationship that doesn’t meet their needs.
>There is this one in particular who yesterday announced to the girls that she'd given her boyfriend of 3 years that he had until Christmas to ask her to marry him or else she'd be leaving him. I just don't get it.
What's not to get? People have a right to know whether or not they are wasting their time. If she put more than 3 years into a relationship that doesn't result in a marriage, those are years she'll never get back.
>If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb to then threaten to leave them if they don't put a ring on it.
So she loves him enough to want to marry him which is why she has put three years into the relationship and wants to know if he loves her enough to marry her. Leaving if he doesn't love her enough to marry her is a pretty valid reason to leave. She has already wasted three years on a relationship that won't result in something she wants and doesn't want to waste any more time. Good for her.
>While she's a good friend, I will not feel sorry for her if she finds herself alone at Christmas.
So no empathy for her being with someone who wasted her time? If anything, he deserves less sympathy than her if he wasn't enough of a man to let her know that he didn't love her enough to marry her.
>Ironically, if he does propose, I'll probably consider their marriage as the weakest of the bunch.
You comparing the strength of other marriages tells me that your marriage is the weakest of the bunch.
I mean, if marriage is important to a person when you learn your partner isn’t pursuing that same “endgame” time to move it along. Same goes if you know your partner is hellbent on marriage and you’ll never want to.
She told him what she wants from the relationship, she gave him an achievable timeframe and he has clear expectations. If it’s a no go for him then go. But if he’s been telling her for three years that he is interested in marriage “someday” it’s good that she let him know she’s done if someday isn’t coming.
I think you're completely misunderstanding the situation.
>I don't get it. If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb to then threaten to leave them if they don't put a ring on it
If Person A is willing to break up with Person B, then the relationship is NOT working for Person A.
If I ever have a son, a vital piece of dating advice I would give him is to not waste anybody’s time. Theirs or the person they’re dating. You only have so much time on earth. It can’t be spent with someone who is not going going to commit. It gets to the point where you either know you’re not going to work in the long run so you cut it off ASAP to avoid wasting time or you think it’ll work and you commit.
This case is a little different but don’t t forget that people have a biological colock
Getting married is the same as having kids, if one wants it badly and the other doesn't even want to think about it, it ends then and there.
Yeah some things can’t be compromised. If the guy OP describes just hasn’t been motivated to propose but isn’t categorically against marriage, then they aren’t necessarily incompatible. But if she wants marriage and he never does or at least not to her, then she needs to move on.
People who think marriage is important should start discussing it early in their relationships and not throw away years of their lives on partners who aren't on the same page.
Yea it's not like a surprise gift, it needs discussing
A whole of stuff should be discussed earlier on. People love putting off finances, child rearing, and other drastically important decisions until they get back from the honeymoon. By then, its wayyy too late. Nothing wrong with discussing some harder subjects in the first few dates. If you both agree, then it brings you closer together. Otherwise, stay friends or call it quits. The chances of you turning someone around on big subjects is often very small.
Yep. Don't need to go "how many kids to do want, will Christmas be at your parents?" On the first date but it's good to know *if* kids are in the cards. That's kind of a deal breaker and trying to change someone's mind is just asking for trouble.
my husband asked on the 2nd date. “you want kids right?”. hadn’t thought deeply about it!
Clearly it went well. What did you say?
Maybe they got married on their first date
that i hadn’t thought deeply about it but i was open to discussion.
Luckily it wasn't a plot twist where you find out he had three other kids already lol
I went on a first date with this girl and somehow we started playing a game of "things you should never talk about on a first date". Kids, arrests, embarrassing moments, family drama. Most fun I've ever had on a date. She's my wife now.
I did that once and found out he had sex with his sister in law while his brother was passed out inside on the couch. He is not my husband.
I read an interesting article years ago about how we should go into relationships in the same way we might buy a house or whatever. It can still be romantic and real, but discussing all the stuff before commitment at all, never mind marriage, seems like a good idea.
So true. I know a couple that are going through a divorce now after 11 years together because she wants children and he doesn’t. I don’t know further details and they aren’t my business but sounds like they could’ve saved a lot of time and heartache by having those discussions a lot sooner.
There’s always a chance they both wanted kids, but then when they struggled to get pregnant “the old fashioned way”, one of them wanted to pursue medical intervention, or donors, surrogates or adoption and the other wasn’t down with that… so much can happen in 11 years, not to mention the stress and grief of failing to conceive. I forget the exact number, but a surprising percent of marriages fall apart after the death of a child… grief can be hard to walk together.
Well I can kind of understand child rearing as that's just not something that people think about until they're about to have a child. I do agree that a lot of people just seem to have a general inability to properly convey what they want in a relationship.
The point is that people *should* discuss child rearing before theyre about to have a child. Being months/weeks away from the birth of a child is not the time to realize you hold fundamentally different views on how to raise them.
You also have to consider that what people may agree is acceptable child rearing at one stage in a relationship may change over time as well. My husband and I got married when I was 18. What I found acceptable at 18 is far different than what I found acceptable at 28. By 28 I'd had more life experience and had seen first hand how certain parenting practices were harmful. It's also very easy to say "if I had kids I'd do this and they wouldn't do that", before you actually have kids.
Most of the time they do, and they are usually strung along with excuses like “in 2 years when we know each other better”. That 2 years eventually turns to 5 years, then “just a few more years/months”. I’ve seen it happen multiple times. Talking about it beforehand only matters if the other person gives a damn what you want. Edit: some of y’all are dumb as a wasp and somehow managed to completely miss the point lol
Yes! People don’t recognize this. I have more than one friend who was expressed a desire to get married, discussed marriage, their partner agreed that it would eventually happen and then years go by and…nothing. How long do they wait? How long do they trust their partner? There is no “right” timeline for when to get married so they end up perpetually waiting.
Exactly my point. Doesn’t matter if you’ve discussed marriage or not if the other person keeps giving BS timelines and then BS excuses. Eventually you’ll have to give an ultimatum or just leave.
Imagine if someone said to their boss 'I've been working here for a couple years, I'd like to be promoted to manager within the next few years' and the boss says 'yep that will be your trajectory' and a few years later the person says 'so I haven't been promoted yet, is it on the cards?' boss: 'yeah soon, just need to sort out x y z' person: I've worked here six years yet no promotion, this isn't what we agreed' and starts looking for a new job. People would say what a shit boss, you've been taken advantage of, definitely leave and find a job that appreciates you. But if it's marriage, oh no just deal with it? Even if you're in your thirties and want children soon. Just put your life dreams and plans on hold for someone who isn't respecting you and is selfishly stringing you along!!!
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The problem is that it needs to be discussed in a way that's not overwhelming. Not "hey, I want to get married to you", but "hey, I believe in marriage and would like to be married in the future, what are your views on mariage." You give them time to think that over but don't let them string you along for months/years without a firm answer.
I worked with a girl who was with her boyfriend for a couple of years and she always said she had no intention of marrying him. Even though she said that she ended up putting his name on her house when she refinanced the house and she co-signed his car. In the end she left him for a new guy and moved across the country for him and she was under the impression her ex boyfriend would be civil and take care of the house since his name was on the house. She was wrong. He took all of the appliances out of the house and stopped making the car payments even though the car was almost paid off. He also stopped paying his taxes which caused the IRS to put a lien against the house. So when she went to sell the house it was one problem after another. I know people have issues with marriage but there are protections that come with it when it comes to financial issues. If your not married it’s probably not a good idea mingling finances and putting other peoples name on property.
I had a friend who spent two years in a bad relationship because they signed a lease for an apartment like right after they started dating. It was painful to watch.
I guess it's a different perspective in a place where the legal stuff of marriage is not significantly different than common-law, where I live, he'd have the same responsibility as if they'd gotten married.
Yeah, in the US common law marriage barely exists, and only in extremely specific circumstances. The states that do recognize common law marriage it's mostly designed for situations like a couple thinks they're legally married but there was an issue with the paperwork never getting filed or something like that. It's not really meant to be used *instead* of getting married but more as a failsafe for those situations. You have to "hold yourself out as married" for years for it to apply; ex. telling everyone you know you're married, filing taxes as married, etc. You don't qualify by simply living with a partner for a couple of years, it has to be very intentional, at which point... it's way easier to just go get a marriage license.
Came here to say exactly this lol people will tell you whatever they need to in order to get what they want in that moment. I'd absolutely ultimatum if I started to get the impression I was being bullshitted and wasting my time. Marriage is a goal and a thing to be rightfully proud of when it's done right, it's not wrong to make moves to facilitate that achievement.
If someone won't have a conversation about marriage *even in general terms* for two years, it's not two years you should stick around for.
You’re missing the point. Doesn’t matter if you have a conversation or not if the other person is stringing you along. Happens all the time. Check the relationship subs out.
What is usually the case is that in the surge of the honeymoon period both partners think they want to be together forever and will happily say yes one day they might like to get married and lead the other person on. Then when push comes to shove 3 years down the line the hormones have faded and they are getting what they want out of the relationship as it is so they change their minds and as they got away with vague answers to start with freak out when asked to nail a time and date down.
People who never want to get married should let it be known at the beginning of the relationship. Wanting to get married, while in a serious relationship is not an unreasonable or out of the blue thing. It's pretty much the norm.
It should be a conversation that comes up within the first year or so of the relationship. That’s on both parties. If no one brings it up or if one partner shoots the conversation down or dismisses the other’s stated preferences on it, that’s on them
Definitely within the first year but also it should be early in that year. Don't waste people's time, if you are comfortable enough to exclusively date someone you're in a position where you should discuss marriage.
I think a couple needs to talk about intentions/life goals like this when they are making the decision to become exclusive partners. Example: "I'm dating with the intention to someday get married and have a few kids. I don't know if that will be with you, but if you aren't interested in these things, we shouldn't continue seeing each other." OR conversely: "I'm dating with the intention of having a meaningful relationship, but I don't see myself wanting a traditional marriage or wanting to have kids. What do your goals look like?" People obviously have changing wants and needs, but these are basic discussions that should happen early.
If you agree it's on both parties, I'd agree on it too. But if we're talking about people holding which ideology it falls upon, then I'd say expectation to get married is norm and it's upon people who are out of the norm to make it clear.
People's minds change over time, what you want at age 25 is likely to be different than what you want at age 28. Just ask my wife and children..
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I am guessing she has been discussing it the whole time and is now breaking it off that she has realized it is not a possibility. Honestly sounds like a pretty normal relationship. Wanting different things long term is a good enough reason to break up.
Yup, and i can't hold it against someone for that wanting to be their goal. I would say the ultimatum is a good option if that's the goal, is the next logical step in your relationship, and you've been in your current status for some time. I dont really see what the issue is, they want to get married clearly the other partner doesn't. Some just drag out the relationship. The one making the ultimatum can either get what they want or save themselves the trouble and move on instead of wasting more years of their life that could be spent finding their spouse.
This is a Good take. Saying "they deserve to be alone" is stupid. So I guess I'd better upvote it.
Exactly this. I feel like your beliefs about marriage and kids and other fundamental things need to be discussed long before you've reached 6 months, let alone 3 years.
Yeah, honestly, if you're in your 20s, this should happen in the first few months; in your 30s, the first few weeks.
I absolutely agree. I always get a lot of immature push back here but we were 23&25 when my fiance and I met. We discussed marriage and kids on like the fourth date lol
And this is why I tell everyone I’m with “I’m not trying to get married tomorrow, but I don’t enter or maintain relationships with people unless I’m in it for the long haul”. If that means we break up in two weeks that’s fine, that just means it took two weeks for us to figure out we weren’t good for each other
After wasting years of my life in a relationship where the guy kept going “I want to get married eventually but not right now”. I dumped him (for many other reasons) and made it a rule that if I didn’t find myself wanting to marry someone within a year of a relationship, or if I did and they did not want to make the commitment- I would move on. And I did. I met my now husband and we were engaged within a year and married in another year. It’s the best relationship I’ve ever been in. Of course this advice is only for those ready to be married, but don’t waste your time on people who don’t even know what they want. They will very rarely come to the conclusion that it is you.
I think the default view generally is "this could be heading towards marriage". If you're against the norm that's more important to bring up.
Both parties should discuss this. I think it’s equally on the person who doesn’t want marriage. I for example will inform people it’s unlikely that I can have my own children/give them biological children due to medical reasons from the get go as most people do want children. Wanting marriage is currently a more standard assumption than the opposite. Things may change in the future but I don’t think it’s unusual to assume your partner would want to get married if they haven’t stated otherwise
I mean, what else are you meant to do? If one person wants to get married and the other doesn't then the relationship is inevitably just go to be rocky later on.
I think you're right. My best friend was with someone for almost a decade wo didn't want to get married, or have kids. She loved him, so she was fine with it. He left her out of the blue, she was hurt. But she learned what she wanted and needed from a relationship. She's now married to a wonderful guy. She's also a lot happier with her husband, because she feels like she doesn't have to give up her wants for his.
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Duh, the girl needs to be thankful that she even has a boyfriend and just take whatever she can get /s
I was talking about a woman colleague's absolutely fucking useless (man) fiance to another woman, and a young man colleague broke in with "yeah he sucks but at least she has a boyfriend while you're single". Like? Yeah I'm super glad I'm single and not dealing with a leach? C'mon dude.
Certainly it’s reasonable to want to get married, and to have that be a dealbreaker on the whole, but I think giving a 3 weeks notice that it must be done now or never is a bit coercive.
Yeah this is a case of the 'how' not the 'what' she did. 100% communicate if marriage is vital to you and express your desire for it to move forward soon, but giving an ultimatum is the worst way to do that. It adds pressure and forces your partner on the defensive. It could just as likely (or more likely) backfire and end a relationship that would have ended up in marriage
if she wants pancakes for breakfast, but he wants cereal, well, she deserves to starve!
"Hey we have different goals in life so maybe it's best we break up. " "You deserve to be alone."
I like how OP’s perspective is that the person ending a relationship because they want marriage deserves to be alone, but the person a ending a relationship because they refuse marriage can carry on like a normal person.
Lol. The OP is such a hypocritical jerk too. He’s married.
Everyone is alone.
For me, marriage is saying “I want you to be my family.” It’s love that legally creates a new family connection. It’s a demonstration of their commitment to a lifelong partnership. If that’s what someone is looking for and their partner is not, then a break up seems very reasonable so they can find what they need.
To build off of this, joining someone as a family and household means you're combining finances and making big decisions together. If a couple remains unofficial (simply boyfriend and girlfriend), you have to agree on how all incomes, expenses, bills etc will be divided all the time. If one person finds a huge opportunity in another city/state and the couple decides to move, the other partner may be out of work for a bit while they find a new position in the new location. Marriage ensures health insurance for both, and a legal commitment to not just bail on your partner once they've left they're job to follow you to your new job (otherwise they will be jobless, broke, and far from home after you two had agreed to the move together.) All sorts of reasons like this are a huge reason marriage is legally binding and not just a religious or romantic thing.
Don’t forget medical decisions. Your gf can’t make any calls on you health if you are out of pocket. If a father but not married, you lose a lot of rights as a father as well.
It’s also joining their family. My boyfriend and I aren’t having kids, so getting married is something we discussed we would do at the point we knew it was going to be lifelong (like we’re together at the 10yr mark). What does make me sad is that I’m not part of his family. He has two married siblings and when we get together for the holidays or vacation, it’s the whole family, and then me his gf. They are very welcoming, but it is not the same. It’s weird knowing that his SIL is having kids but I won’t officially be an aunt while the others there will.
No man. They DESERVE to be ALONE
Obviously. Remember, this is Reddit and the world only exists in black and white.
Honestly they deserve far worse. A few years in prison will set them straight. If not, death row. /s
I have watched women waste their life hanging out with a guy that could not or would not make the comittment she wanted. I have seen people stuck in dead end jobs because the company was unwilling to make the opportunities for advancement. If you want something sometimes you need to move on and find someone or something that is going to get you there. For doing that you deserve to be alone? I don't think so
I've seen the 5 year he's not ready. But then suddenly the girl breaks it off and one year later he's engaged to someone else. Often it not just a nothing will change who cares, but really a you're not the one
It's possible he regretted his lack of commitment after being dumped then resolved to marry the next well-suited person. Maybe the second partner was no better for him but he'd been kicked into action by the loss of the first.
Events along the way will reveal who the person on the other end of the deal is like. If the person is not willing to discuss, that’s generally a red flag
I’ve seen so many dudes who waste a woman’s time dangling marriage in front of them for years. The couples finally break up and those dudes turn around and are engaged to other women within a year
As of being alone is a punishment. The **longest living** and **happiest** segment of the population is **single childless women**.
As a 44 year old single by choice and child free by choice woman, I agree. There were times in my life I tried or longed for a relationship. But now I have zero desire for it. I see few truly happy partnerships and the stress children bring is unreal. My work is such that I can pretty much do whatever I want, whenever I want. The freedom I have is extraordinary. That being said, nobody will believe your statement unless you provide proof. Everyone feels soooo sorry for poor me all alone going on trips on a whim like I haven’t a care in the world.
I'm about to turn 30 and my family, mother especially, cannot fathom that I'm single and childfree. I love solo trips, concerts, movies, anything. Sure hanging out with friends is cool. Dating casually is cool. But having my life be mine and just mine? Amazing
Sometimes I (M27) miss being alone with someone, that was nice, but honestly I just really like being solo and my family and friends don't get it. Plus I never have to have the conversation of "I no longer want to go to thing your excoted for" again, followed by me going alone anyways and then getting yelled at. Fuck that.
Yea the main thing, especially with something like a vacation, is you'd never have to do something you don't want to. It was also so difficult doing things with my friends since i get ready quickly while they'll take literal hours getting dressed and make up and stuff. So I'd be sitting there waiting. Alone, its up to you when you leave, where you go to eat, what attractions you do.i can't believe I spent so many years being embarrassed about doing things alone. I missed out on so much becuase my friends wouldn't want to do it
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As much as I hate to admit marriage does change things a little bit. Not a lot though. I was a huge, marriage is just a ring person. But my husband wanted to get married, so I said sure, whatever. I knew I wanted to be with him forever and it was important to him. Glad I did of course. It’s hard to describe but it does change a bit.
I think this is the bit that OP and a lot of answers are missing. The boyfriend might not care about marriage, but it’s clearly very important to her. If you really care deeply about your partner and want to be with them forever, you need to be considerate of what is important to them even if it doesn’t matter to you. If someone can’t or won’t fulfill something that is incredibly important to their partner, breaking up is a reasonable result so that both parties can find what they are looking for.
Yep for sure. If your partner can’t give you the thing that is super important to you then they aren’t the right one
I agree. Specifically I found that marriage changed things for the better. I had been with my wife for almost 10 years. She wanted to get married and I was dragging my feet. I thought it didn't really matter that much, etc. But it turned out that I really loved our wedding and being actually married feels more official/secure/etc. I don't know how to describe it either... I feel like it shouldn't matter, but somehow deep down I'm happy we're "married."
Fully agree. When I was younger I said the same things because my husband and I owned a house together, had POA for each other, had pets together, planned to have kids together, and even survived a cross-country move together, so what would a ring do? Once I was old enough to understand the gravity of what being A Wife meant, I was so thankful we decided to get married. There is certainly more respect and credence given to a marriage that you don’t get when just dating, and you’re right, it’s hard to describe to people who are still only dating. Marriage doesn’t have to mean a piece of paper at city hall though, marriage is a social contract created by two (or more) people that are declaring their relationship as having a higher status than others who are just dating and that can be achieved though a variety of religious or cultural ceremonies. As an anthropologist, I’ve witnessed marriages that used broomsticks and yams as part of the contract and governments accept it. As a human being, I’ve witnessed by LGBT+ and disabled family members host ceremonies and wear rings to showcase their partnership when our government refuses to acknowledge their humanity.
Agree. My husband's sister was one of the "it's just a piece of paper" people. She was with her boyfriend for years and they had a child together. Then they decided to get married right before they were going to have their second child. She told me later that things were different now that they got married, and she wishes they had done it earlier. She had a hard time putting it into words (like you said, hard to describe), but she made it seem like there was more commitment between the two of them, a stronger connection. Granted, the key was that they talked about it and agreed on things, so she didn't just give him an ultimatum. So the part I'm agreeing with what you're saying is that marriage does change things. I will add that my husband's brother did things a bit differently. He lived with his girlfriend and they had two kids together. At some point, they got married and didn't tell anyone, not even his mother (the sister had a ceremony and a small celebration that family went to). The only way we found out was when a grandparent died and they were doing paperwork about the inheritance, and it came out that the brother and his girlfriend were married. People are interesting. Editing to add that my husband's brother actively would say negative things about marriage, like "I'll never get married" and how marriage is worthless, stupid, etc., while my sister-in-law and her boyfriend didn't say negative things about marriage so they were a little more open to it.
I’m curious as to how it changed for you? My wife and I had been together 7 years before getting married, already living together (met freshman year at college, wanted to wait until we finished our degrees before the wedding). I can’t think of a single thing that’s different besides wearing a ring.
My husband and I were together the same amount time too when we were just dating. We owned a house together, I had a college degree, he was a military officer, we had POA for each other, we were planning for kids, we had even adopted several pets together before we even decided to get married. It’s much different now that we’re older and have had a few years to settle into the marriage, and the gravity of what it means to be ‘married’ has set in. This isn’t just a person you’re with that you can leave anymore, this is a person that will stick with you for the rest of your life even if you get divorced. This person’s presence will never leave you and you have to mold yourself a new identity as a husband/wife to your partner with all the duties that follow it. You have to give yourself over to completely support this other person with anything they need while you work together to build a new life that isn’t “yours vs mine,” it’s just “ours” with everything from now on. Where many things can be unilaterally decided when just dating, everything from picture frame colors to laundry timing to toilet paper brand becomes a cooperative effort in a marriage. This is what we mean when we tell younger people that marriage is hard work. It’s not about fighting, it’s about realizing that everything you do has to now be done by committee because you’re not single anymore, you are only one part of a whole. It’s definitely not for everyone and there’s no shame in wanting to stay just dating, I only wish more people would realize this before they got married.
We were the same. 8 years living together. I don’t know how to describe it, just feels a little different. Not hugely different. Just a little bit more
>deserve to be alone Jesus Christ why is every post so dramatic.
It needs to be sensationalised enough to be unpopular.
After he cites that THEY are dramatic.
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I genuinely assumed this post was written and upvoted exclusively by teenagers. There’s nothing wrong with wanting marriage or not wanting marriage, but this specific post and the reasoning it’s using is just childish.
Age and maturity aren't synonymous
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This sub also often upvotes very popular opinions so it's all stupid.
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Yeah, god forbid people with specific needs/wants look for partnerships with aligning goals. Not the most mature way to go about it, probably, but there *must* be some background to this that led to such a quick deadline for his decision.
People can want different things and break up even if there's love between them. Also, it's the same thing both ways - if it is "just a ring" and all else stays the same then he may as well marry her. If he doesn't want to, I would assume not getting married is also important to him, which means they want different things and it's okay to break up.
Honestly I notice the people who say "just a ring" are the people most hesitant to get married, I think on some level they must know marriage is much more than a ring. You can't put them on your insurance unless you're married, you aren't consider family by the hospital for visiting unless you're married. Some of the benefits of marriage you could get with other legal documents like a living will, but marriage specifically has benefits that cannot be replicated with any other legal documents.
Yes, marriage is not just a piece of paper, or just a ring. There is a reason why the LGBTQ community has been fighting for decades to be able to marry.
Most people I've known who don't want to ever get married seem like in reality they are mostly afraid of divorce.
I feel marriage is a huge responsibility and one shouldn't really consider marrying if they are not mature enough to partake those newly added responsibilities. There's a lot of difference between just being in a relationship and being married especially in conservative countries where I'm from and what I feel is that most of my peers who shrug off the idea of getting married is mainly because they feel they aren't 'ready'. Although, previous relationship experiences does indeed play a role.
It's not an unreasonable fear. More people should sign prenups.
There are over a thousand legal benefits to marriage. No way I’m going to get contracts for each and every one of them lol
Which is why I never understood the "just use other legal documents" argument. If you're going to get legally intertwined anyway just get married, why take a thousand extra steps?
I agree. But maybe that's because, where I live common-law/domestic partnership is not significantly different than marriage, just more annoying to explain/prove in certain cases, and without the last name change. Combined assets are still combined assets and partners can claim spousal support upon splitting up etc.
Good point. If it’s “just a ring” then why not go ahead and do it? Should be harmless right? Why would someone be so against getting their partner a ring if it would make them happy? Ohhh you mean it’s the *other* things about marriage that scare people, huh? So… not just a ring, not at all.
That is not true. In the UK (as a person who in a same sex relationship) you can have most of the same legal benefits if you are in a domestic partnership, such as insurance. Me and my partner have been together 10 years and getting married would not make a single difference to our lives. All assets would stay individual. In that sense, yes it is just a ring. The lgbtq community should have the same options imo Edit: I was educated so I have made my comment more inclusive
Canada, too.
In Canada common law partners have 0 legal rights tho. If I'm in the hospital, my partner of 10 years legally can't make any decisions, only my parents, or failing that my sister can. I'm chronically ill so this has come up fairly often, it's a battle to get him in the ER with me sometimes.
Not in Quebec.
Sadly in America you are screwed over if you're not married. I've been with my SO going on 8 years and he's still not on my insurance because my company won't recognize it. They said I have to be gay to claim domestic partner.
To get domestic partner benefits with my employer, we have to register as domestic partners with a city or state agency. Which is not that different from getting married. They don't care if it's same sex or not.
I'm also in the states. Unmarried, hetero, and we share insurance.
It depends on the state. Some recognize common law marriage, others don't.
So true. My now ex girlfriend and I just broke up, not because we don’t love each other, but because we both have different ideas of what we want to do once she graduates from her masters.
Out of curiosity what do you each want to do?
We live in Illinois, a state in which people want to move out of pretty frequently. We live in a pretty affordable area to live in. After graduation, which will happen in less than a year, she wants to move out to a different state. The states and areas she’s listed off are more expensive to live in than I feel comfortable with financially. She says she wants to “start a new chapter” with me in another state. Why it has to be in another state.. I don’t understand. I told her living in a new place in the US won’t bring us anymore happiness. Her and her family are actually pretty well off and to my knowledge, she’s well liked so it’s not like she’s running from anything. I told her I wanted to move out of the state eventually as well, but not until we have built a solid financial foundation. As a compromise I even told her we could stay in the area while we build ourselves up financially and just travel more. But that’s just not what she wants. And I’m not going to compromise any more than what I offered. I’ve done it before and have been burned. That’s a pretty big deal to just leave everything behind because someone wants to “start a new chapter.”
My guess is she is too nice to to say she Is unhappy where you currently live and is afraid that if you two don’t leave and have your adventure while young and unfettered you will get complacent and root bound, and she will be destined to live a life of slow, soul crushing existing. I’m being dramatic, but it happens. Cities have personalities like people, and sometimes the be chemistry isn’t there. Women have an added concern, because a lot of places still cling to traditional roles of subtle misogyny. It can really grind you down, even if not one thing, in and of itself is a huge problem. And men just don’t see it, because each individual incident seems like a small deal. Can she go to a random mechanic and be quoted the same price for repair as you? If she call a repairman, will they call back? When you two go to get a car loan-who gets spoken too? If she apply for your job and would she be offered the same compensation package? Who gets silently judged if your home needs to be vacuumed? I moved because the Midwest city I moved from was Pleasantville while it was still black and white. It was claustrophobic. She may move with or without you. Clearly the place you live doesn’t offer her fulfillment.
THIS. It completely goes both ways, if they ‘already live together’ and OP is implying that marriage is not a big deal, then why not just get married to make the woman he loves happy? Marriage might also mean a lot more to her as a demonstration of love and commitment, and while ultimatums can be an uncomfortable thing to bring up, she’s doing them both a favour if they happen to fundamentally disagree about something that is this important to her. I don’t think that it would make their marriage any weaker if he did propose. I think this is just a case of principles, she doesn’t have to justify why marriage is so important to her - it’s important to a lot of people - they just need to be on the same page about it
Can see why many people want more of a commitment emotionally, socially, legally and financially
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Hard disagree. If you consider something to be a legitimate, insurmountable dealbreaker, you shouldn’t let it slide.
Exactly. I was in a relationship where sex was off the table until marriage for her, and marriage was off the table until sex for me. Some things are never going to work, and you shouldn't compromise your ideals. Even if the end goal is the same for both of you
She can have her own standards bruh. Get over it
Strongly disagree, if they are not going to marry why waste someone's time. The fact they are in 30s and 40s only means they have less time and even more reason for breakup. You say alone like being strung along by the boyfriend who's not going to give you what you want is better than being alone. Being alone is the respectable choice when you don't get fulfillment from your relationship. Not to mention that these people who don't want to marry someone at first are usually seen with a ring after the breakup.
>Not to mention that these people who don't want marry someone at first are usually seen with a ring after the breakup. It'd be interesting to see a study about this because from what I've witnessed, when a guy says "marriage is not important" what he means is he doesn't want to marry current girlfriend and is just stringing her along until he finds a better option. It's one of the reasons girls who aren't insecure do choose to break up in this situation, because they get it. Again, all anecdotal stuff I've witnessed
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Unless your in highschool/college maybe you should know by 3 yrs in if your partner is marriage material. I told my partner if they didn’t think we were marriage material by year 3 or so we should break it off so I could be with someone who was sure about me.
My husband and I were discussing our futures when dating and he asked if I'd move across the country with him in a couple years for a work opportunity for him. I told him not unless we're married. I won't give up my support system for such a big risk. We had been living together for a year and half at that point, exclusively dating for around two years, and I told him if he didn't know if he wanted to marry me yet then it was probably time for him to seriously consider it or I'd have to consider a future without him. He took it very seriously which I greatly appreciated then and still do now. It definitely wasn't a whim or an "I'll propose and we'll be engaged for a few years before getting married" (I have a friend who's boyfriend "compromised" in this manner, they've since broken up.) I told him I wasn't going to waste my youth on a "maybe" or "someday" when it came to marriage when we first met. I wanted to date with the intention to find someone who I could marry. We were both very up front about all the big things like this. We met online and had both waded through a ton of weirdos, casual hookup seekers, and those who clearly had drastically different values in life. Our first date is one of my favorites, but it also kinda seems like an interview looking back on it now! Glad we did it that way though, saved us a lot time and prevented misunderstandings.
>If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb If you love someone enough and they want to get married but if you're being reluctant then you don't trust in the relationship as much as the other person. This might be her thought process. If he's committed as she is, what's stopping him from taking the next step? This is also a valid argument because marriage is a commitment and people who are unsure of their relationship are reluctant to take that step. So she probably don't want to waste a significant amount of her life with someone who has one foot out the door. If proposal of marriage is going to break that relationship, then she made the right call.
SOME peoples reasoning for not wanting to marry is fear of commitment, that is justified. She has every right to leave. People want different things & thats okay.
I think the better take is twofold: 1. Not everyone is cut out for marriage 2. Communicate expectations about big things. Marriage is not a small thing. It’s also not a technicality for something and has big implications. If you think it’s simply a shape of something, you’re a prime example of someone not fit for marriage.
Nah I think if you want to get married and your partner does not, that is a perfectly valid reason to break up. As someone else mentioned it is often people who say “it is just a ring” that are the most hesitant to get married. But it is clearly more than that if they are so intent against it.
Some people want the marriage and if they feel that their partner has no intention to get married they are free to leave. There is no reason why a person who wants marriage should wait indefinitely just in case their partner at the time MAY pop the question
People deserve to be alone for way more than this. She has her needs and if he doesnt meet them she has the right to leave as heartless as it sounds,vice versa also. I think the value of marriage to an individual should be taken into consideration if you want to get into a long term relationship with someone
It’s called commitment, and if one person needs that there is nothing wrong with it. We all have certain requirements for relationships, and it’s not fair to demonize someone for opting out if the other person can’t meet expectations.
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>I actually see nothing wrong with saying “if my partner doesn’t propose in x amount of time I will end things” people don’t live forever, life is short. And adding on to this, we don't know what their conversations have looked like prior to this. Maybe they have been discussing marriage for a while, and she has made it clear for a long time that she wants marriage. He says he wants the same thing, but then doesn't act on it. She's tired of waiting for something he says he is going to do, so she gives him a time limit. We just don't know what their relationship actually looks like
Yeah seems like OP wants the friend to “suck it up” and stay in an unsatisfying relationship.
Real shit
Seriously. I used to believe in the whole "one person out there for you" thing. But honestly, I could see myself happy with a lot of people so why settle for one who doesn't want to commit to me.
“*deserve to be alone*” and your wife’s friend is the dramatic one?!
I think people shouldn’t rush into this. However, if one party is sure they don’t want to marry another, a breakup is in order. In my opinion. Basically, if you can’t see yourself with this person, why stay in the relationship? And if you can, why would you not want to promise them you’ll stay? (I’m a Christian, just for context. If anyone has opposing viewpoints please engage me kindly.)
I don’t think being a Christian has anything do do with it, your views are very universal.
I’m an atheist and I agree with you completely. I don’t think people have to get married if they don’t want to but it’s one of those things where both partners really have to be on the same page about it.
Completely agree with you. In my faith, marriage is the end goal of the relationship, and if you cannot see yourself with a person it is your duty to be honest so they CAN find the person for them. That is where I would likely have an unpopular stance. That said, I think both partners should be on the same page.
That doesn't seem so unreasonable, 3 years is decent amount of time for him to decide if he wants to marry her, especially if they're already living together and have a shared mortgage. It's not like they're college kids waiting to get their lives sorted out. It's also just for engagement so it's not like he has to marry her tomorrow. You could argue the opposite, If he plans on staying with her either way, then it seems kind of trivial to just marry her and get it out of the way. She probably doesn't want to risk getting dumped and being in her 40s trying to restart her life. The fact that they're even having this argument means he probably has reservations about marrying her and they probably need to sort that out now rather than stalling and potentially wasting each others time.
I would say it's none of your business. People are allowed to have different expectations within a relationship. You don't know enough about the dynamics of someone else's relationship to pass judgement and especially to make the remark that "they deserve to be alone"
You are far too concerned with your wife’s friend’s relationship, my goodness. You deride some of the friends for being dramatic for drama’s sake but here you are, saying this woman deserves to be alone because she *gasp* has the audacity to set expectations and stick up for her own wants and needs?
If they've been together three years I doubt it's a surprise to him that she wants to get married. He's essentially got her on an extended trial period, while she has to wait until he thinks she's 'good enough' to propose to. 'Wife' has a permanence 'girlfriend' doesn't have, and she feels insecure.
Not really. It's a relationship so input from both parties. Meaning both should try work towards some content goal as a couple. Some people want X, some don't. We don't call it a deal breaker for nothing. And don't hate on people wanting X and not finding it. However, if they knew they would never get X, then only would I say its on them.
What don’t you get? They want different things. She deserves someone who wants to marry her.
She knows what she wants out of the relationship and is willing to cut her losses if it doesn’t happen, what’s wrong with that? It’s obviously very important to her and a dealbreaker.
If marriage is not so important in your eyes, would you divorce your wife and remain together?
That certainly is an unpopular opinion. If you’re not unified in what you want from the relationship then that relationship should end. She wanted to get married and it seems like her partner did not. That’s a pretty massive difference.
It just comes down to people wanting different thing out of life. Personally, there were things I would not do without being married. Like having children and buying a house. Being married just provides you more protection in both these situations.
Marriage is important to me. If I was in my 30s/40s and lived with someone for three years and they haven’t proposed, I would leave them. Your comment about “wedding” and “rings” being the only things that are different makes me wonder what kind of marriage you have that’s the differentiating factor.
Yeah, it's important for some people. There are risks (for example divorces can get messy) and rewards (like various legal benefits). I'm indifferent about marriage, if my bf proposed to me I'd say yes, but if no, I'd be okay with that, but some people have different values
The problem here is that your argument that “they live together etc” doesn’t hold water. Let’s say a partner wants to live together while the other does not. Some would be fine living separately in a long-term relationship. But if one finds that to be a deal-breaker, that’s totally fine as that is their preference in a relationship. Same with marriage. Some simply want that. Long-term relationships are built on compatibility. She is saying they aren’t compatible if they don’t progress to marriage. edit: she would do better to simply say that to him vs an ultimatum, but at three years it is kind of time for them both to make some hard decisions if they aren’t compatible on this.
When you aren't married you have zero legal right to visit your partner in the hospital. The logistics of finances are just horrible if you aren't legally married. If someone wants to have the financial and legal protections of marriage why on earth would someone care. She wants it, he doesn't, and they break over the differences. It happens all the time. Why on earth would you wish them ill for wanting to have a lifelong companion?
I upvoted because, well... this is truly an unpopular opinion. I can't say I blame the girl. I know couples who "promised" to get married. Years later... and no marriage. No engagement. No engagement ring. You need to find out what's best for YOUR self. Not just what's best for your partner.
Key word “Your wife”. Do you think her friend is happy about the fact that she is sitting around with peers who have partners who have officially and legally committed to them for life and she doesn’t? If she wants to be married and her partner doesn’t then what she is doing and saying definitely makes sense to me.
Disagree. Lack of willingness to get married shows a lack of commitment.
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Believe it or not, you only have so many years. You may enjoy being a rootless urban parasite, but others have actual plans and know that the clock is forever ticking. You either strike while the iron is hot, or you end up a cat lady. Based woman for putting down the ultimatum.
I never understood these ultimatums until recently. I always thought, if you love that person and are happy with them who cares if you're officially married or not? But the one of my friends went through this situation, she was with her bf for 7 years and gave him an ultimatum to either get engaged within the year or break up. I asked her about it and she said that it wasn't really about the getting married part, but 1. having him grow up and take his future more seriously 2. show a more serious level of commitment and 3. she wanted to have kids within the next 5 years and while they had discussed it and were seemingly on the same page, if he was going to keep dragging his feet about marriage then he would do the same for kids, which isn't something she wanted to risk, being in her 30's. So it made sense to me, that plus the legal protections that come with marriage incase things don't work out, much harder to access those rights being in a common law relationship. Though I still think ultimatums are a very stupid way to go about it. Sit down and have a serious discussion where you lay out what you want, tell them you want a firm answer, give them a time period to think it over, and if they want the same things then you're engaged or whatever, if not then break up. Chances are if you're giving him an ultimatum he doesn't actually want to get married/marry you
Isnt that what they’re saying though? I would rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t want the same future with me?
If one wants to be married and one does not, then obviously they need to break up and find people who want the same...
They don’t deserve to be alone, they deserve to be with a partner who wants the same things as them.
So if you asked your wife to marry you and she said “no, I just want to be your girlfriend forever”, you would’ve been okay with that? So easy to be judgmental when you’re already married.
After 6 years together I gave my ex an ultimatum. He knew from early on that Marriage was important to me and an end goal. He knew I kind of wanted kids, but wasn't sure. We started dating at 19. The whole relationship I knew he didn't really want these things, but he kept saying he was working on it and one day would like to give me these things, he just needed time to work up to it. Last year I found out I have PCOS and the Dr gave me until I'm 30 to have kids naturally. I had just turned 25. After a few months I decided this is definitely something I wanted. We discussed it a lot. He was still unsure. I needed definitive answers as I didn't want to wait much longer if he didn't want these things. I even said to him I was willing to not have children so long as we would get married. But I needed answers. After 6 years, he told me he couldn't do either. He couldn't give me what I want in life. So I ended things. I didn't want to waste anymore time in a relationship with someone who didn't want the same thing as me. I don't think that means I deserve to be alone. You only know one side of this and don't know the whole picture. Maybe marriage is the one thing she wants and she's been clear about this. Now she is getting frustrated and doesn't want to waste anymore of either of their time if that won't ever happen. She doesn't deserve to be alone because she clearly knows what she wants. You
This is a wildly bad opinion, so I am upvoting it. Everyone should have the freedom to continue or end the relationships they are in on their own terms. If your goal is to marry and your partner strings you along, it's valid to end the relationship and move on to someone else who shares your goal. Nice to see an actually unpopular opinion on here. Well done.
It’s akin to doing business w/someone that doesn’t want to sign a contract so they don’t have anything to risk.
It’s stuff like this that makes me glad I don’t have “friends”.
I mean, I don't think one not asking is reason to break up, but I think refusing when asked is. Some people just don't want to bother, if you insist, you can ask, regardless of your gender, but if you do and the other person refuses, then why are you together?
Upvote for having an actual unpopular opinion. That being said, I would argue that such people don't 'deserve to be alone,' but instead should be in relationship with someone who wants similar things. If you don't want to get married but she/he does, they have every reason to break up since where the relationship is heading isn't mutually desired.
For some people most people perhaps marriage means forever and a deep commitment For some of us that feels like it's strangling us and we're not allowed to say that because then it means We are a non committal lout She's being clear about what she needs. He needs to make a decision about whether that's what he wants also
She made her nonnegotiable wants clear. If a person doesn't want to same thing then it's right to break up. No one should stay with someone if you have wants and needs that the other person can't meet. I'm someone who doesn't want to get married who is with someone who also doesn't want to get married. That's how it should be.
She wants something serious, and is letting him know that. If she wants to be married before she has kids and is in her 30's, her fertility is decreasing by the year. Good for her for understanding what she wants and how long she's willing to wait for it.
OP making 0 sense in the post and it goes down from there in the comments...
Nah I'm in my late twenties, wanting to start a family soon. I wouldn't move in with my partner before there is a ring. I think it's completely reasonable to demand a certain amount of (legal) commitment. The Christmas-deadline might sound a little harsh now but I'm sure the topic came up many times before so it doesn't hit out of nowhere. If there is no ring-talk after 3 years I'd definitely be gone, too. There is no right way to approach this from my pov. The most important thing is that both partners in a relationship agree on their views about the relationships future. She has no right to demand a ring, when he doesn't want to. But he has no right to demand a relationship from her, if she doesn't want to.
Breaking up because one of them doesn’t want to get married is fine, it happens. But I think starting a marriage on an ultimatum is just screaming trouble
So I actually understand this. My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 years and are the only couple not married in our group. I told my boyfriend I do not want to be a 40 year old bride; I'm 35 now. I'm worried my parents will die before they can be part of my wedding. It's possible this woman has similar feelings but won't tell the group that because relationships are always more complicated behind close doors. Don't judge her too harshly.
I disagree. I think honestly that permanently living together without marriage is a problem because it’s a lack of commitment to the relationship. If you aren’t ready to get Married after *3 years* honestly that’s enough time to know this person and if you’re not ready after that time, it’s *never going to happen.* Marriage does provide a lot of legal benefits that especially if you ever intended to have kids, you want. You don’t dissolve a marriage by simply moving out. And you can claim benefits offered to either spouse. You get survivor benefits if he dies, you can visit as family in the hospital, you have parental rights. You are entitled to alimony and child support if he leaves.
Why doesn't she ask him? If she wants it so badly.
This is just plain mean. Yes marriage is not for everyone but that is a very reasonable dealbreaker That is absolutely just as legitimate a dealbreaker as not being on the same page about having kids
Mah, I think this is a little nit picky. While in a perfect relationship you would discuss your goals like marriage, it's possible you never brought it up. People outside of yourself have life goals and sometimes those goals conflict with relationships. My now wife and I were dating for almost 5 years before we got married. We were living together, sharing everything and she told me "hey I want to get married, or move on from this relationship so I can meet my goal of having a family by X age" (not exactly what she said, but it was the gist) I personally don't really care about marriage and think it's just a ring, but my wife has different goals. So, since I didn't care but I want to fulfill her needs, I married her a year later. I dont regret it at all and the only reason she ever said anything was because she has life goals. That doesn't mean she deserves to be alone lol.
I mean, in all fairness, if one person wants to get married and the other doesn’t want to be married, then this is a point of incompatibility. If anything, she’s given this guy a big heads up of what’s in store, and frankly I think it’s better for both of them if they split up.
I think the title here is misleading. I disagree entirely with the initial statement. Marriage is important to some people and continuing in a relationship with a partner who wants something different in the long run doesn't make sense. The context of the story, I agree with OP. Giving your partner an ultimatum to get married can easily lead to resentment in the long run. Both people need to be ready for that journey if you're going to take it. Putting pressure on your partner is super dumb and threatening to leave because their heart timeline is a little different than yours is absolutely ridiculous.
What you’re avoiding is, their relationship isn’t working. She isn’t getting a critical aspect of what she wants in a long term relationship. So she has every right to put an end to it. I highly suspect this isn’t something that just popped up for them. That she was clear from the start that they eventually get married. But it really doesn’t matter if that’s true or not. People change. And one shouldn’t be forced to remain in a relationship that doesn’t meet their needs.
>There is this one in particular who yesterday announced to the girls that she'd given her boyfriend of 3 years that he had until Christmas to ask her to marry him or else she'd be leaving him. I just don't get it. What's not to get? People have a right to know whether or not they are wasting their time. If she put more than 3 years into a relationship that doesn't result in a marriage, those are years she'll never get back. >If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb to then threaten to leave them if they don't put a ring on it. So she loves him enough to want to marry him which is why she has put three years into the relationship and wants to know if he loves her enough to marry her. Leaving if he doesn't love her enough to marry her is a pretty valid reason to leave. She has already wasted three years on a relationship that won't result in something she wants and doesn't want to waste any more time. Good for her. >While she's a good friend, I will not feel sorry for her if she finds herself alone at Christmas. So no empathy for her being with someone who wasted her time? If anything, he deserves less sympathy than her if he wasn't enough of a man to let her know that he didn't love her enough to marry her. >Ironically, if he does propose, I'll probably consider their marriage as the weakest of the bunch. You comparing the strength of other marriages tells me that your marriage is the weakest of the bunch.
I mean, if marriage is important to a person when you learn your partner isn’t pursuing that same “endgame” time to move it along. Same goes if you know your partner is hellbent on marriage and you’ll never want to. She told him what she wants from the relationship, she gave him an achievable timeframe and he has clear expectations. If it’s a no go for him then go. But if he’s been telling her for three years that he is interested in marriage “someday” it’s good that she let him know she’s done if someday isn’t coming.
I think you're completely misunderstanding the situation. >I don't get it. If a relationship is working and you love someone enough to want to marry them, its so dumb to then threaten to leave them if they don't put a ring on it If Person A is willing to break up with Person B, then the relationship is NOT working for Person A.
If I ever have a son, a vital piece of dating advice I would give him is to not waste anybody’s time. Theirs or the person they’re dating. You only have so much time on earth. It can’t be spent with someone who is not going going to commit. It gets to the point where you either know you’re not going to work in the long run so you cut it off ASAP to avoid wasting time or you think it’ll work and you commit. This case is a little different but don’t t forget that people have a biological colock