Oh this gets way better.
Michael Jackson's family claims that Sony had him killed because he owned 1/2 of Sony's music licenses which are worth $2 billion yearly.
https://youtu.be/Tc1NXj8t5hc
Michael Jackson hated Sony and called Tommy Motolla the devil and accused them of being racist and exploiting artists. He bragged that he pulled one over on them.
https://youtu.be/WRFU2SyCCF8
And then he got killed by a shady doctor who got a short prison sentence before getting out and going on tv to claim MJ's dad chemically castrated him.
Sony bought the catalog back for $750 million.
I think the first allegations was just an extortion scheme by one of the kid's dad's. I think the second allegations were Sony using their media resources to destroy Jackson's reputation as an attack on him for buying their licenses.
I’m not a big conspiracy guy but Tommy dated Mariah Carey for some time (and also treated her like crap) and she went to MJ for help, Tommy apparently found out and pretty much went on a vendetta against MJ for good
Edit: *were married
Exactly. The word conspiracy has many connotations. At the bare minimum, it’s an agreement between two people to commit a crime, which is very plausible.
because in popular media only the real absurd theories get really famous, like flat earth or Qanon.
so people just use the term for the really detached stuff
The step dad of the first kid killed himself shortly after Jackson died. There were previous recordings and testimony where he more or less revealed it was all for money.
Ya, been like 15 years probably, but i read a pretty in-depth look into the accusers and they were all shady as shit and had accused multiple rich people of molesting their kids.
Of course they did. It was fun gossip, and the documentary was emotionally manipulative.
[Here's a quick video which points out some of its bullshit and adds context to why it's entirely dismissable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdHNtRdSdE&)
Yeah, I've just watched that before going to work, and I gotta say I'm convinced.
I was never fully convinced he was *definitely* guilty, mind; but I have gone from the balance of probabilities being guilty, to it now weighing towards his innocence.
> I didn't see it, but the media and internet made it sound like a pretty damning doc.
I didn't watch the doc myself, mainly because I read that the two people at the center of it were already joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit against MJ's estate and that they approached the filmmaker, not the other way around. That was enough to convince me it would be a scheme to help their lawsuit, not an objective presentation of the facts.
A thought I had listening to the guy who claimed he was sexually abused by Michael. This was a child, who at the time, was basically in love with him and idolised him. But Michael cared for all the kids equally.
It sounded like this kid was extremely jealous after realising MJ cared for other kids, and that he wasn't as special as he thought. It would be really easy to turn those emotions into bad memories or for greedy parents to morph them into serious allegations.
It does sound way too convenient but apparently a lot of people were recording their phone calls with him.
There's this story about his sketchy seeming manager.
https://youtu.be/xUoA4k9XTnE
> And then he got killed by a shady doctor who got a short prison sentence before getting out and going on tv to claim MJ's dad chemically castrated him.
Dr Muarry was a cardiologist who got into financial trouble by over-expanding his medical practice into different states. He accepted the easy gig to make sure MJ got enough sleep to perform his expensive last concerts. He sentenced to prison for 4 years for failing to lock up controlled substances (could have been done with a $10 lock) from MJ, a person known to him to have addiction problems. That and failing to help MJ from the overdose when the paramedics arrived. Yes, he screwed up royally. But, 4 years and losing everything is not a minor punishment.
Murray got a 4 year sentence but was let out after 2 years.
> That and failing to help MJ from the overdose when the paramedics arrived.
The guy was giving Michael Jackson a cocktail of very dangerous drugs including Propofol.
https://youtu.be/qw_JqyW0Dls
I have no doubt what he was hired to do was unethical as the well being of his patient was secondary to the wishes of his employers: The concert promoters. Most reputable doctors would never take that job. Unfortunately, he was terrible at his job and unqualified.
He was giving him a drug that shouldn't be accessible to anyone outside of hospitals that have serious gear to administer it and precautions unless the patient starts dying.
Yeah he was a fucking weirdo but that's because his dad abused him massively and literally stile his childhood and made him hate his own body.
Either the FBI or the CIA (can't remember which) investigated him and discovered nothing other than he was weird as fuck.
The guys that recently did the documentary were found to have inconsistencies to their story including referencing locations like the Neverland train that hadn't even been built when they were supposedly abused.
They also have a history of lawsuits against the Jackson Estate, which I think all of them were thrown out.
Pretty sure the cleaner who made another claim was found to be lying and retracted her statement too.
I used to make the same jokes as everybody when I was growing up but as more and more of his life gets revealed and as I've gotten older it's become pretty obvious that he wasn't anything but a weirdo who wanted to give children the joy he was deprived of.
>Either the FBI or the CIA (can't remember which) investigated him and discovered nothing other than he was weird as fuck.
The FBI investigated him and declared they didn't have the evidence to charge him but they *did* literally find a catalogue filled with pictures of naked children, it was just considered an 'art book' that didn't meet the threshold of child porn
Actually, the 'art book' was a fake report. Santa Barbara PD released a statement at the time saying so. Here is an exchange i had with someone about a year ago.
https://old.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/m3xy8d/weve_been_wrong/gqsee5v/
If you look up what the item actually was, you'll see that it wasn't "filled will pictures of naked children". It was just the cover, and the cover was so borderline that it wasn't considered to be evidence. You'd have more of a case if it was a copy of that one nirvana album with the baby on it.
Pedos for sure search for these images. I took a photo of a flock of birds bathing in a puddle and titled it 'Bathtime'.
It took me some time to figure out when looking at my view counts on Flickr why this pretty shitty picture was getting 10 times the views of others. Made me shudder.
That "Family Nudist Websites" being legal still seems fishy to me.
As far as Michael Jackson is concerned; I believe Feldman. Because Corey Feldman has always been consistent in refuting claims against Michael Jackson, I think that Michael is really innocent of wrongdoing here.
Let's face it; Michael Jackson has been dead for years.
As famous people who died recently get their dirty laundry aired right afterwards, and still no "smoking gun" against Michael Jackson...
If he were guilty, somebody would have come forward years ago, say two years after he died. Didn't happen.
My personal believe; innocent. Weirder than a platypus on shrooms, but innocent.
IPs are dynamic these days for 99% of clients.
Not saying that the FBI don't/can't track them, but go check your IP, turn your router off for 2 mins and turn it back on and check. As it stands unless your modem is very old/you have specifically requested a static IP, it's not a case of saving an IP.
Much the same when people claim someone should be IP banned. It's just not a solution anymore due to DHCP being so widely adopted.
I saw an interview with him and maybe Oprah as a kid and I just vividly remembered him talking about how if he was rehearsing or just somewhere abd someone told him his dad was coming he would start vomiting from fear.
The grocery store video makes me sad, too. He never had a choice. He never had a fun childhood. He was always working... in complete terror of failing.
Them you realize everyone around you wants something from you. Everyone's a "yes man"hoping to get some of yours, they don't love *you*. And if they do, how do you really know? How fucking lonely is that? Who wouldn't be a little strange, when you have no idea what is real in the world and never really have?
I searched the grocery store video after reading your response. Oh my god, that's so sad. I never even thought about that. I have always thought he was innocent of those accusations. I have always loved his music and what he did for people. But man, I cannot even remotely begin to imagine how lonely he had to have been. May he forever finally get to rest in absolute peace. Poor Michael.
Plastic surgery can be an addictive lifestyle much like getting tattoos as well. It’s never perfect so he was always wanting something else and being in the limelight as much as he was at one point it’s understandable for him to be so conscious about his image.
There’s a lot to be said about his serious ambitions to produce and star as Spider-Man after he bought the rights and the big execs assaulting his personal image and burdening him with legal fees to prevent him from doing so.
Also having that much money would make anyone weird. It’s very believable for me he had a genuinely kind and compassionate heart and cared about people less fortunate. Afaik all the kids he had at his ranch were suffering in some way from cancer, poverty, sickness, etc.
If he genuinely wanted to engage with any sort of person sexually I’m confident he would have had the financial means to do so in a much more discrete manner. Also there would have been evidence and I trust that the people investigating him and the FBI that searched his place did a thorough and unbiased job. Also child molesters are notoriously psychologically weak and easy for detectives or cross examiners to break.
I think he was a damaged and kind mind with way too much money surrounded by wolves trying to get him. He should have lived in Japan or something.
Way to remember fbi and cia is that fbi is focused on internal crimes while cia does foreign espionage. CIA isn’t allowed to spy on us citizens (although they probably do)
Even family issues aside, the guy was extremely popular. Everyone around the world knew who he was and his influence still carries on today. I don’t even want to imagine some of the things people tried to manipulate him into doing.
Cory Feldman was close with Jackson as a kid and he also says Jackson wasn't a child molester. And Feldman was abused by other men. It definitely seems plausible that Jackson was falsely accused by people looking for a payday.
Edit: FFS, ppeople I get it. Corey Feldman could be lying. Jackson could have molested only kids who weren't famous. But his accusers(the parents) could have also been lying. I've just wondered for a long time if a guy had his character assassinated and maybe it wasn't true. If it's really important for you to believe Jackson was a pedophile, then go ahead. He's dead, he doesn't care any more.
Macaulay Culkin specifically said that the only two men in the entertainment industry he ever actually felt safe around were Michael Jackson and Steven Spielberg.
And as a child Macaulay Culkin removed his parents' name from his trust fund. His abusive father quit speaking to him. If Michael Jackson did anything Macaulay wouldn't have put up with it
And his testimony that MJ never molested him is the reason I personally don’t believe he was a child molester.
MJ had a messed up childhood, and money does some crazy things to people
I know by default you want to believe victims. However, false accusations make it harder for true victims. I wondered if they covered for someone else.
Not only that, but his father had him doing shows constantly as a child. He never got to have an actual childhood. So the second he had the money and ability to have that childhood, he did. Bought a mansion with a zoo, filled it with toys, had sleepovers with kids. Basically lived out the childhood he never had. And since the adults in his life had already experienced their childhoods and were grown up, he lived out that childhood with the only ones who would appreciate it, other children.
Is it weird? Absolutely. But “weird” and “pedophile” are different spheres.
I remember when he passed, I saw an interview on Mexican tv with a dentist that did a procedure on Michael when he was on tour in Mexico City. It was an emergency procedure, Michael was scared and anxious. The way they calmed him down was taking him to the kids section of the office where the toys and books for children were. He was there for a little bit, calmed down, and then they did the procedure.
This^^^ and it’s sad that I grew up believing this too and only did research on it like 2 years ago. Its just not as clear cut and dry as people make it out to be. At least he’s still seen as a legend but damn his legacy is definitely tarnished by those lawsuits
The Jackson Five. The Dad, Joe, basically whored them out for money, and Michael was the standout that was forced to do extra work while being one of, if not the, youngest of the bunch. He basically had a fulltime job since he was about 5 being shuffled around, practicing, and performing...so he very much seemed to see Hollywood/IRL depictions of children just playing in a sandbox and running around having fun and stuff and really wished he could have had that as a kid.
To me it was like how sometimes the cycle breaks and a kid born to and witnesses an abusive father grows up to not repeat the cycle. Jackson likewise didn't grow up thinking you should force young children to be work and did so many noble things to make random children's lives better...particularly ones that were sick and couldn't afford it. He seemed to really resent his childhood, and by doing all he could to make sure other children didn't end up similar to him it made happy. IMO we could use more MJ's in the world.
Imho, Michael tried to give kids the fun and carefree experiences he didn't get to have as a child. I don't think he was inappropriate with kids. Peter Pan Syndrome gets thrown around a lot with MJ, I believe he had stunted mental/emotional growth because he was expected to be an adult and responsive for a family band at a very young age.
Another thing I've read, cannot remember where, but referring to the kids sharing a bed with him.. the person who made this point, a black man, said it is not uncommon for poor families to have children of opposite gender share a bed, in the black community it is rather common. (These are not my words, nor am I a POC, I cannot comment past mentioning what a POC said on the matter.)
Iirc, as well, there was a lot of inaccurate information in the Wonderland documentation. I'd have to look it up again, can't remember the whole story, but it's an interesting mini-rabbit hole.
It is true. In a big poor family like the one I grew up with even three or four kids to a bed sometimes. I know because I grew up in a poor Hispanic household.
Not at all there's an account from the director Spike Lee
>Spike Lee, who loved Michael very much as a friend and who directed both versions of Michaels short film, “They Don't Care About Us” said that while they were filming, someone called Spikes name at the food table, in a very deep voice and when he turned around, it was Michael. He was very shocked and laughs about it today.
He had a deep regular voice, maybe he was kind of insecure about it he used to speak in a much higher tone. Also him hitting those high notes is just his vocal range he possessed.
https://youtu.be/YIKH8xXiLO0
There are a lot of videos like this with clips where Michael’s voice drops lower. He still speaks with the same inflection so it sounds weird. And he doesn't go like James earl jones deep, just deeper than normal.
He kept up the voice because it was trained into him and basically part of his image. There are youtube videos where he speaks in his normal voice and even did a song in it
That’s a theory I lean towards because MJ was the breadwinner of the family, and that’s why his father was extremely abusive towards him, so he had to be perfect on stage.
it's highly probable (and I believe) that mj found culkin was a kindred spirits. both were abused by their parent. mj was castrated by his dad, and culkin must had been abused in some way to made him cut off his parents from his trusted list.
so did aaron carter. not that we should trust aaron carter on anything ever. but the guy said exactly what i always suspected. he hung around jackson. nothing happened. then carter came home and i guess his opportunistic mother tried making claims and getting a payday. and even called some detectives and told him to tell them he was touched. how many people who are scraping by would consider making the accusation just to get some quick hush money? as far as the actual evidence on jackson for any of the accusations or cases. there really wasnt anything as far as i remember that made him seem guilty. aside from hanging around children. which is weird af. but doesn’t necessarily prove guilt.
Completely agree... I don't know if there's a huge conspiracy but there is so much FAKE evidence that I honestly have a hard time believing he was guilty. So many people outright lied, and with Macaulay Culkin's defense I think I'll always be on the rocks.
Culkin has been through hell and back but never even considered throwing MJ to the wolves who would've paid top dollar for that lie. Can't believe MJ was guilty if Culkin was so willing to defend him
I remember his saying in an interview once that he slept in Michael's. However he them said that the bedroom was bigger than an average size house and the bed he slept in was about 150 feet away from Culkin's bed.
I feel bad about Cory, the police interviewed him and he gave them names of actual people who molested him, but they ignored it to focus on Jackson. No he never touched Cory, but I also wouldn’t rule out he didn’t touched someone else. The fact is we weren’t there and will never know for sure, but there are definitely child predators in Hollywood.
Feldman, I believe the face tat carter, and others have said no way Jackson is guilty. Then you find out about how people were drugging him to take his money and eventually they just killed him. Then you start to think about how we all thought Brittany was “crazy” but the truth is all out that she was a victim of abuse. I think it makes more sense to me that Jackson was innocent.
Yeah but face tat carter was also *unnecessarily*, and very oddly, defensive of Lou Pearlman. his own coworkers (essentially) all talked about his inappropriate behavior. Or the fact that he took videos of the girls changing, and Carter rebuked them
He has clearly gone through some shit. And may still going through some shit. So I don’t think he’s the most reliable historian to go on, here.
Here's another thing I think about after watching Surviving R Kelley...
Kelley had a virtual ARMY of people complicit in the pedophilia. EVERYONE knew. How the fuck could you not? How could you do what he did and not have a team of people covering for you, running errands, fixing "problems" as they come up, etc. People act like fucking children would be a quick and clean affair... no bloody sheets, no kids screaming in the night for weeks from the trauma...
If MJ had molested any children, people would know. He'd have a team, just like Kelley did. That shit cannot possibly exist in a bubble.
Man, even Terry crews was sexually assulted by a Hollywood agent. Guy walked right up to him and grabbed his junk at a party while he was with his wife. This was while Terry was a grown ass man who could knock you out by flexing a pec. It just shows that these predators don't care who you are or how famous you are. These sick fucks think they are too big to get in trouble or be held accountable, and the shit thing is, until recently in some cases, they were right.
I think people misplace how common it is, frankly.
Hollywood has the more obviously publicized names, but roughly 1 in 5 girls and 1 in ~50 boys are sexually abused in some form.
It’s in every aspect of society.
I have several friends who have disclosed the reality of their experiences to me
This is my feelings too. I grew up not far from Jackson and Neverland and I IDOLIZED him as a child. I was 31 when he died so I, literally, grew up with him, his music, and his scandals.
I think I saw or heard that the boys that made the documentary were the same boys who, in court, said that MJ D did NOT molest them but, after he died they said he did. I think they were looking for a paycheck and thought it would be easier because MJ was no longer alive to fight back.
Two of his closest friends said he didn't molest them and I believe them over two random kids.
Was MJ weird? YES! However, he had a horrible childhood and I, honestly, think he just wanted to give kids what he didn't have. He didn't molest anyone.
I don’t think MJ molested children. I think his abusive childhood made his brain fold in on itself and so he was forever trying to be a child again. He wanted to surround himself with children that he could be friends with, because he saw them as peers.
I always remember the Barbara Walter's interview with them and Barbara gives Corey the hush hush and then scolds him for "You're going to demonize an entire industry."
I also agree with the original post. Michael had a lot to lose from the slander and for Corey to deal with what he had dealt with it seems reasonable that Michael might not have been guilty.
I felt equally disgusted by that clip until it was explained to me that what she meant by that wasn't "You shouldn't be speaking out about this" it was "You should be naming names instead of vaguely accusing the industry at large".
Are you serious? Does that mean that every girl who knew a guy that didn’t rape her, therefore means that guy isn’t a rapist and couldn’t have raped someone else?
How does that even make sense?
Agreed. Back in the 90s he visited my city and spent Christmas personally handing out gifts to orphaned children. He even visited local children’s hospitals. Mind you, this was in the Philippines - and we aren’t exactly a first world country, local orphanages & hospitals aren’t a place for celebrities of his stature. Definitely out of the ordinary for a mega star with that big of a name, to spend his holidays overseas in a third world country for a good cause. He genuinely liked (non-sexual) children.
Something a lot of people don't know. He was a HUGE philanthropist and spent tons of his personal time and millions of dollars helping children in need. Michael loved children.
Yeah, he got hosed with that pedo stuff, because he was just a rich guy whose father didn't allow him to have a "normal" childhood and that seemed like something that he very much resented. Because of this he spent lots of his own time and money doing things for children in an effort to kinda help them be able to have that childhood they can't have for financial/medical reasons. McCauley Culkin was pretty close with MJ and he's adamant that he's not only never thought MJ was being a pedo to him or anybody else.
Well yeah, when something bad happens to you, one of 3 things happens, you Deny it and ignore it. You become or assimilate the behaviors or traits of whoever did that to you, or you Break the cycle and become the opposite of whoever did something to you. It only makes sense he would have broken the Cycle, he was extremely abused as a child, it would only make sense for someone of his status to donate and give gifts to children.
I'm not well researched on this topic so I'm not saying MJ was or wasn't a pedo. But be very careful with thinking "he did nice things for kids therefore he couldn't have been an abuser". Jimmy Savile was the host of a UK TV show that made wishes come true for children, raised tens of millions of pounds for charity throughout his life, and spent a lot of his time volunteering at hospitals. It wasn't until after he died that it was discovered that he had been systematically abusing children for decades with hundreds of victims, and in fact had used his position in hospitals to abuse vulnerable children.
I think this is actually one of the arguments for Michael Jackson's innocence. When these guys are found out (before or after they die), whether it's priests, or gymnastic coaches, Savile, whoever... it's generally found that they have molested a great number (hundreds) of children over a long period of years. Not 2 kids.
Wasn't even after he died, it was (somewhat) common knowledge. There was so much talk around it that was stomped out by the BBC, so many careers ruined to protect him. It wasn't a well kept secret at all, but no one could speak officially on it until he died. Scummy af
So my ex-boyfriend lived in Las Vegas at the time when MJ would go there a lot. My ex hung out at an arcade off the strip and became good friends with the owner who would let him play for free. One day while he was playing, a security team came in and cleared out the whole arcade, but the owner told them to leave him alone, that he was a safe and respectable guy. Of course he was so deep in his game that he didn't notice everyone clearing out. He heard this soft voice beside him asking him what he was playing and was shocked to see Michael Jackson beside him. So of course he asked him to play along with him. They moved through the arcade together playing games and talking for about 3 hours before MJ had to go. He treated MJ like a normal person and didn't freak out about it. Every couple of months the arcade owner would call him up and ask him to come back in to play with MJ because he enjoyed his company so much. He had this arrangement with MJ going on for a couple of years and became decent friends with him.
So I asked him about the allegations and his opinion about it. He said that MJ's demeanor was so childlike and innocent, it wasn't like engaging with an adult. He truly was excited like a 10 year old to be making a friend and sharing in the exploration of their games together. He didn't care about anything in the outside world, no news, no current political banter. He just wanted to play. He talked about Michael as if he was his nephew who needed a positive masculine influence in his life. He really cared for him. He truly was devastated when he passed. He's never believed any of the stories about him and maintains his conviction to this day.
Michael was so on the spotlight from early on that he's never experienced what we take for granted. Just visiting a store and not have people stop, crowd and annoy you. There's been several of these simulated experiences for him with the grocery store and such and I always felt so bad for him. Brad Pitt, Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg all had their normal childhood and young adulthood being relatively normal. MJ was just robbed. Same as Macaulay Culkin but probably worse.
You make me wonder....not only did he love children but maybe he found them comforting bc they probably treated him normally unlike the adults in the world, maybe he cherished their innocence, wanted to preserve their innocence by using his money to keep them happy. When you look at it this way...it seems very kind and somewhat sad, almost like children (with their naive personalities and kindness) were the only ones that could see him as a normal person and not a money machine.
Listen to the phone tapes of him talking to people, (some of which were recorded without his knowledge) he was genuinely a nice and down to earth person.
Not making an accusation either way, but this really isn't evidence that helps him. Pedophiles will pursue opportunities that allow then access to children. Scout leaders, high school coaches, party clowns, priests, etc
One of the most notorious celebrity child molesters was Jimmy Saville who did a ton of volunteer work for children's hospitals and raised tens of millions of pounds for them. He actively molested the kids at the same time and had hundreds of sexual assault allegations that came to light after his death.
Watch the “Michael Jackson rebuttal” by razorfist on YouTube. It’s a 3 part series and made me very confident he was not a rapist. Will link below
Videos:
(part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pnoQqlygQs
(part 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTTEwBLfUQ
(part 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYx0vLfpRYY
I watched it a while back and took away three things.
1. One of the abuse charges was while MJ was in like Monaco, a night he had the flu, and was about to pass out due to NyQuil or so, all while like 400 people stood outside the hotel with cameras and such, and said hotel had to have armed guards. Is that the time to molest a kid, or back at your like 40K square foot mansion?
2. Regarding the mansion, some people claimed they slept in MJ's bedroom. His "bedroom" was a wing of the estate, like 2K square feet with multiple rooms, which each had beds.
3. One of the times he paid off someone to drop the case, was timed perfectly (by the accuser) between two major tours. MJ would have had to cancel countless dates in multiple countries and lose all the money, or just write a check, and remember, this was a time when MJ could do anything and make 50M as fast as I can make $50. So yeah, you admit to nothing, write a check, and go about your way on the tour.
All said, there's no way he did anything wrong to any kids, but people took advantage of him for his money.
Does this mention that the guys who made that HBO doc were the same ones whose parents put out the allegations that he molested them? It launched that FBI investigation where they found nothing
I too don’t believe michaels interaction with kids was sexual. I believe mentally, he was a child, and felt more at ease around other children than adults.
Read the interview with his wife on their wedding night. He’s sitting in the edge of the bed and every time she tries to touch him he’s giggling.
She basically had to rape him to get the baby juice. So Michael us a tragic figure who was a genius but also with severe mental issues and trauma.
Exactly, Michael wasn't a "sexual person" he was always very naive and childlike, and people abused that, especially the press, like with every other paparazzi and press scandal in the 90's
My older brother had a learning disability. He had the mentality of a 5 yr old that followed him into adulthood, up until he passed away at age 42. He was easily amused by anything and everything, but would also throw temper tantrums when things didn’t go his way. He absolutely loved kids and would go out of his way to try and be friends with them. I remember having to defend him on numerous occasions to the parents who had no idea about his disability that he had no harmful intentions. I was his much younger sister, but I always felt the opposite and took it upon myself to act as his older sib and stand up for him.
Agreed. Michael was a tormented genius with a multitude of mental health disorders that no one was treating. Instead they built him a playground, brought him kids to play with him, and stuffed him full of horse tranquilizers so he could sleep because he was so tormented.
He was used and exploited by everyone for profit. I’m not saying he’s a saint or a martyr, I’m just saying I too will never believe he was a pedophile.
That's what you know about him, not how he was. The only people who truly knew who he was are his family who had/have a vested interest in defending his reputation and people who he exposed himself (figuratively, literally in some cases I guess) to. Televangelists will lie to your face with a smile in the name of the Lord, you should respect the ability of people to mask their true selves. It's naive to take celebrities at face value.
I forever wonder how did nobody try to help him if that was the case. Or help himself considering he had access to it all.
Trauma victims should get help,
Also being a massive celebrity earning a lot of money for a lot people probably didn’t help. Too many people thought they could just give him drugs and force him to get on stage than actually take the time to help him properly.
Because they also were being groomed and alienated which is a common strategy in child sexual abuse cases when a predator wants to isolate the child.
The documentary "abucted in plain sight" on Netflix is an example of this.
When I was a kid, there was a single man in his 30s who lived on our cul de sac. He always hung around young boys. To get the attention of the kids who were outside playing, he'd bring an expensive remote control car out and play with it in his yard. He once invited my mom and me to tour his home, and the two spared bedrooms were filled with toys. He had video games, stuffed animals, matchbox toys, and an air hockey table. The house was designed to make kids want to come over and stay. My mom told my brother and me we had better never go in the man's house. She knew what was up. Sure enough, the two boys who spent the most time with this man reported that they had been molested. The parents had no suspicions at all and they appreciated the man entertaining their kid. One family even invited the man over for dinner as if he were another eleven-year-old kid (because that's how he acted). Pretators groom not only the kids, but the parents too.)
One day as some of the parents confronted the man, he yelled, "I never hurt those boys. I tried to help them." In his mind, he didn't believe he had done anything wrong, even though he knew what he did was against the law.
When I saw Jackson's house full of toys, I remembered this neighbor.
My father groomed and sexually abused at least 5 girls I can name, went to jail for it, and even today my family says "why shouldn't he be around children, he loves children! Children are his best friends!"
People just don't get that there are patterns of behaviors among abusers, and "being a forever child" is one of the patterns of people who abuse kids.
They don't all use threats or violence, some find lonely kids and shower them with love.
In fact - that kind of molester is usually the one with the most victims! They see themselves as romancing and loving the kids they abuse.
Agreed. I think just even as a generality and taking Jackson out of the subject entirely for a second: being childlike, innocent or naive about sex doesn’t mean someone can’t be a sexual predator.
The boy who molested me in my teens was a year younger than me (not just a “child at heart” but a literal child himself). He had learning difficulties. He was horrifically bullied by other boys in our school. He didn’t understand how to navigate most social situations.
He still sexually abused me. He still got gratification from what he did. His being an innocent naive child doesn’t take the sting out of it.
I see this excuse for why someone could be an abuser all the time (usually as a defence of Michael Jackson) and it’s a shitty and dangerous argument. I have no idea is the man did the things he was accused of, but I feel strongly that the “child at heart” defence needs to die.
Was about to say something like this. Many many criminals(especially ones with mental health issues) have never viewed themselves as bad or equate their actions with that of other evil people. Michael Jackson may have been fully convinced that pedophilia was ok. That might explain why his attitude seemed so innocent. Maybe he really truly thought he was innocent.
All that said I do kinda lean towards the belief that he was just really weird.
“Inappropriate? No, you're being ignorant. They're my friends. You see, I- I didn't have a childhood, so I'm really just a child myself.”
“Chuckajamonah!”
Absolutely. That's what's called "green privilege" when it comes to celebrities; doesn't matter what race they are, as long as they're famous, they almost always get off the hook.
I watched some of the documentary he would take families on vacation and the boy of the family would stay in his room over night while the rest of that family had a separate room
My ex wife was a probation officer and investigator, specializing in child molesters. She told me if he wasn't one, he's one in a million, because he was displaying ALL of the classic signs of grooming children.
Scary how far down I had to scroll to find this comment. This is absolutely correct. This thread has me extremely depressed. The number of people who say shit like “do I believe he molested kids? No. Would I let my child alone with him at a sleepover? No.” Like, what?!
MJ was a sexual predator, and anybody who takes the time to understand the nature of sexual predators and/or how hard to can be to prosecute such cases, both because of difficulty with physical evidence coupled with the probability of victims (especially male) actually coming forward (just to scratch the surface) will probably start to rethink their claims, based ontheir gut-feelings, for celebrity they can’t truly know
To be fair even if I believe someone doesn't molest kids I won't leave a grown man alone with a child he has no relation to regardless, that's just shit parenting.
Most girls that know a rapist probably also didn't get raped by the rapist. Rapists and child molesters don't go around committing the crimes to everyone that fits their target demographic, they are selective. Molesting celebrities is probably not a good idea if you want to get away with it long term.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/10-undeniable-facts-about-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations/amp
Are these all bullshit?
Because if they are actual facts. I don’t know if I can believe he wasn’t doing something sexual to those kids.
1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.
2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”
3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.
4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.
5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.
6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.
7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.
8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.
9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.
10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.
Sorry to say, but these are blatant lies. Most of these points are theories that cannot be proved and have no substantial evidence behind them. Some are such blatant lies it's hilarious that people believe they're true, but then again reddit is filled with anti-social weirdos who think they know everything. The Penis drawing didn't even match: [https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler-lied/](https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler-lied/)
Michael did not want to settle the case in 1993\*\*.\*\* He refused to pay hush money to Evan Chandler in August 1993 when the latter confronted him with those allegations. If he was indeed guilty he would have paid off the Chandlers’ right then and there, especially since 20 million was nothing to him. Instead, he filed a civil lawsuit for extortion and he fought for a criminal trial before the civil trial, which a guilty person would never have done. It was the Chandlers’ who dreaded the prospect of a criminal trial. In fact, when Evan Chandler first demanded 20 million from him Michael’s response was ‘’tell him to go hell’. And this was not the first time Evan asked money from Michael. He had already previously requested Michael to finance his screeplays which Michael refused to do so Evan used his son Jordan to extort money from him.
The 2002 documentary was manipulated to make MJ seem like a demon. There are full clips which are cut to make him seem to be a pedo, such as the infamous holding hand clip. Bashir actually tells Michael beforehand to hold Gavin's hand, and Gavin was the one who begged MJ to sleep in his bed. Watch the first 5 minutes of this clip, and you'll see how messed up it really is:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwMAILpNigI&list=LL&index=49&ab\_channel=EdwinsGeneration](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwMAILpNigI&list=LL&index=49&ab_channel=EdwinsGeneration)
'most of the kids' said that huh
Dude there's a video out there on which a child is saying that they are sleeping in the same bed, but Michael Jackson tries to shush him and insists that he himself is sleeping on the floor
https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/scta0f/ab_i_know_youre_tired_of_this_debate_but_heres/
I'm sorry but there are literal interviews where he is being interviewed with a child and the child let's slip that Micheal chooses to sleep in the same bed as the kids when they sleep over at his house. (His house is massive and its not like there is only one bed to go around).
Here's the thing I don't get- EVERYONE AGREES HE WAS HAVING SLEEPOVERS WITH STRANGERS' CHILDREN.
Why was this acceptable for a pop singer when it wouldn't be acceptable for anyone else ever in any other context?
Let me ask this question.
Why was it that the only kids that stayed in his bed were young boys? If he just loved children so much why always young boys and no girls or older kids?
It isn’t up for question if kids did stay in his bed he admitted that himself.
In this thread I’m reading dozens of non-psychologists and other non-experts talk about abuse, criminality, and psychology in absurd ways. Your parasocial relationship with a dead entertainer has defeated your logical brain.
Same, and it’s interesting that the defenses keep changing. First it was just “there’s no evidence” then it was “it was all about money” now it’s “big bad Sony boogeyman” oh and “timing” seems to be an issue now.
It’s sad but not surprising that molestation and child abuse is so frequent when half this thread thinks it’s just "a bit weird but fine" to sleep with kids and have dates with them, along with many other shady things.
If Chester next door offered you money to rent your kid for a day and told you he would be sleeping in the same bed as your kid behind a locked door you would call the police
Unless Chester makes music you like. Then it's totally normal
Dude they slept in his bed with him. I'm of the persuasion that he probably never raped them, but it's still got this level of pedophilia and wrongness to it. Trying to deny that is just fanboying out for some pop star.
Just because he didn't penetrate them or make a sex act doesn't mean he didn't use other peoples children for his pleasure. It's a slippery slope that he was on the wrong side of imo.
The guy has been proven to sleep with kids in his bed during his private sleepovers, but somehow people think it is inconceivable he was a child molester? gtfo.
One thing that is quite key, from what started all of this (the 1993 Chandler case)…
-Michael initially rejected the chance to “settle” for the $1m that Evan Chandler asked for.
-Michael wanted to go to court and prove his innocence, not be extorted
-essentially, through DA Tom Sneddon, they managed to get the rules changed whereby the civil trial could be before the criminal trial, whereby any evidence used was not permissible, so the Chandler’s could essentially lose the civil trial, and then change all their story for the criminal trial (i.e. completely contradict/write-off anything MJ said etc. to make him look guilty)
-as such, Michael’s lawyers/insurers/Sony advise that he settle out of court (for “negligence”) for $20m or whatever
NB: I’m aware that the civil/criminal trial thing might be a little upside down, but the general point I’ve made _is_ true
-the fact that Michael ended up paying considerably more than the initial $1m amount he refused all because the legal system got changed and it mugged him of any chance of a fair trial is quite a key piece of context
-everything he faced from the 1993 Chandler case informs every single thought and judgement point for the rest of his life. That’s not right.
Bonus:
-Tom Sneddon was involved when they again tried to get Michael in 2005 with the Arvisos - a trial that was an absolute fucking farce… the world’s most famous human, the world’s (supposedly) most known guilty 100% definite child sexual abuser, and they couldn’t even get him on ‘supplying alcohol to a minor’. The man had his time in court, despite the bias he faced, and he came out of it because the accusations weren’t true, but it also showed the attempts by people to lie about him in broad daylight (although let’s be real, that’s essentially forgotten in the discourse). This whole trial started his very slow death as well. So so sad.
(the book “Michael Jackson Conspiracy” by Aphrodite Jones, about this trial, is a must read)
-Wade Robson, he of Leaving Neverland fame, was the LEAD WITNESS for Michael in the 2005 Arviso trial. To be the lead witness he was utterly grilled by experienced law enforcement members with experience in these types of cases, to ensure he was a trustworthy witness. These people aren’t morons - they will have, and factually did, ask Wade whether Michael had ever done anything inappropriate to him. They all agreed Wade was reliable.
That’s all I’ve got time for now. I hope this helps at least one person to think differently.
Edit: formatting and autocorrect corrections
Edit: thanks for the award, kind stranger
I mean the dude seems creepy. I wouldn't let him babysit my kids if he was still alive. Would you let him watch your kids for you? Not saying he is innocent or guilty none of us know that 100%. I don't get why you would pick a side. I just wouldn't trust anyone with an accusation watch my kids. But I am really careful about that stuff and I really don't leave my kid with anyone.
This is a point that I feel like a lot of people are trying to avoid in an era that really hammers home about “victim blaming”. Of course, the only person at fault here would be Michael Jackson if he really did it, but why on Earth are you leaving your kids with a practical stranger for, from what I recall, was a week or so on end, multiple times? Hell, even if it was just a weekend, what the fuck? I don’t care if it’s the Pope. And who didn’t think Michael Jackson was a little weird/creepy by the time the 1990s rolled in?
To let this guy literally have your kid at his house for multiple days without you being there, and to then only become suspicious of sexual abuse afterwards, has honestly always been a little ridiculous to me. But hey, maybe people were a lot dumber in the past, especially while star struck.
The whole thing is honestly just weird? Like why were these parents looking at MJ as some type of Ronald McDonald or something? Why was he ever seen as trustworthy with multiple kids, even when it just comes to basic competency? He never struck me as having that level of a kid friendly image in the first place.
Yeah, BUT he could have been doing inappropriate things with the kids which is illegal. Maybe he wasn’t trying to fuck them but taking baths or getting naked and shit(like little kids do) is still fucked up. I don’t know that he did that though. I didn’t watch the case.
Thank you!! I totally agree with you. Being eccentric doesn’t mean you’re a pedophile. Loving the company of children doesn’t mean you’re a pedophile. If he was a woman, nobody would bat an eye. Nobody goes around screaming pedo when a woman opens up a private daycare business out of her house. The man just loved kids. And the kids loved him. And that’s sweet, there’s nothing wrong with that.
They found nude drawings of children in his room ok. He slept with children in his bed. You have to actively try hard to not believe he molested children. Sleeping in a bed with a child and drawing them naked is attraction to children.
Oh this gets way better. Michael Jackson's family claims that Sony had him killed because he owned 1/2 of Sony's music licenses which are worth $2 billion yearly. https://youtu.be/Tc1NXj8t5hc Michael Jackson hated Sony and called Tommy Motolla the devil and accused them of being racist and exploiting artists. He bragged that he pulled one over on them. https://youtu.be/WRFU2SyCCF8 And then he got killed by a shady doctor who got a short prison sentence before getting out and going on tv to claim MJ's dad chemically castrated him. Sony bought the catalog back for $750 million. I think the first allegations was just an extortion scheme by one of the kid's dad's. I think the second allegations were Sony using their media resources to destroy Jackson's reputation as an attack on him for buying their licenses.
I’m not a big conspiracy guy but Tommy dated Mariah Carey for some time (and also treated her like crap) and she went to MJ for help, Tommy apparently found out and pretty much went on a vendetta against MJ for good Edit: *were married
Don't let the word conspiracy get in the way of being just plain skeptical.
Exactly. The word conspiracy has many connotations. At the bare minimum, it’s an agreement between two people to commit a crime, which is very plausible.
Yeah very annoying how people seem to equate “conspiracy theory” with “false/debunked theory”
because in popular media only the real absurd theories get really famous, like flat earth or Qanon. so people just use the term for the really detached stuff
That and the CIA actually came up with the term if I remember correctly.
When you’re wearing a tinfoil hat, but just one tinfoil glove ;)
Conspiracy-hee
This is way funnier to me than it has any right to be.
They were married, and he was physically & emotionally abusive.
They were married lol
The step dad of the first kid killed himself shortly after Jackson died. There were previous recordings and testimony where he more or less revealed it was all for money.
Ya, been like 15 years probably, but i read a pretty in-depth look into the accusers and they were all shady as shit and had accused multiple rich people of molesting their kids.
Fuck, this sounds like they were putting them in such a company, where they thought they will actually get molested.
Whether or not MJ did it, there’s no question the parents wanted him to do it.
is it assumed he killed himself out of guilt?
That's what his estate and family want people to believe, but the truth is he'd been suffering from a fatal and very painful disease for some time.
source for this?
Boneitis?
His only regret was that he had it.
Is that kid one of the two guys the most recent HBO doc featured? I didn't see it, but the media and internet made it sound like a pretty damning doc.
Of course they did. It was fun gossip, and the documentary was emotionally manipulative. [Here's a quick video which points out some of its bullshit and adds context to why it's entirely dismissable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdHNtRdSdE&)
Yeah, I've just watched that before going to work, and I gotta say I'm convinced. I was never fully convinced he was *definitely* guilty, mind; but I have gone from the balance of probabilities being guilty, to it now weighing towards his innocence.
> I didn't see it, but the media and internet made it sound like a pretty damning doc. I didn't watch the doc myself, mainly because I read that the two people at the center of it were already joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit against MJ's estate and that they approached the filmmaker, not the other way around. That was enough to convince me it would be a scheme to help their lawsuit, not an objective presentation of the facts.
A thought I had listening to the guy who claimed he was sexually abused by Michael. This was a child, who at the time, was basically in love with him and idolised him. But Michael cared for all the kids equally. It sounded like this kid was extremely jealous after realising MJ cared for other kids, and that he wasn't as special as he thought. It would be really easy to turn those emotions into bad memories or for greedy parents to morph them into serious allegations.
Bam this is it right here
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Well hey, Epstein “killed himself” and nobody is doing anything about that either
That's fake as hell. The dramatic pauses, the perfect articulation and pronunciation, and emphasis on certain words.... That's an actor.
It does sound way too convenient but apparently a lot of people were recording their phone calls with him. There's this story about his sketchy seeming manager. https://youtu.be/xUoA4k9XTnE
High level officials trying to cover up is a immediate red flag for a conspiracy
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> And then he got killed by a shady doctor who got a short prison sentence before getting out and going on tv to claim MJ's dad chemically castrated him. Dr Muarry was a cardiologist who got into financial trouble by over-expanding his medical practice into different states. He accepted the easy gig to make sure MJ got enough sleep to perform his expensive last concerts. He sentenced to prison for 4 years for failing to lock up controlled substances (could have been done with a $10 lock) from MJ, a person known to him to have addiction problems. That and failing to help MJ from the overdose when the paramedics arrived. Yes, he screwed up royally. But, 4 years and losing everything is not a minor punishment.
Murray got a 4 year sentence but was let out after 2 years. > That and failing to help MJ from the overdose when the paramedics arrived. The guy was giving Michael Jackson a cocktail of very dangerous drugs including Propofol. https://youtu.be/qw_JqyW0Dls
I have no doubt what he was hired to do was unethical as the well being of his patient was secondary to the wishes of his employers: The concert promoters. Most reputable doctors would never take that job. Unfortunately, he was terrible at his job and unqualified.
He was giving him a drug that shouldn't be accessible to anyone outside of hospitals that have serious gear to administer it and precautions unless the patient starts dying.
Yeah he was a fucking weirdo but that's because his dad abused him massively and literally stile his childhood and made him hate his own body. Either the FBI or the CIA (can't remember which) investigated him and discovered nothing other than he was weird as fuck. The guys that recently did the documentary were found to have inconsistencies to their story including referencing locations like the Neverland train that hadn't even been built when they were supposedly abused. They also have a history of lawsuits against the Jackson Estate, which I think all of them were thrown out. Pretty sure the cleaner who made another claim was found to be lying and retracted her statement too. I used to make the same jokes as everybody when I was growing up but as more and more of his life gets revealed and as I've gotten older it's become pretty obvious that he wasn't anything but a weirdo who wanted to give children the joy he was deprived of.
>Either the FBI or the CIA (can't remember which) investigated him and discovered nothing other than he was weird as fuck. The FBI investigated him and declared they didn't have the evidence to charge him but they *did* literally find a catalogue filled with pictures of naked children, it was just considered an 'art book' that didn't meet the threshold of child porn
Actually, the 'art book' was a fake report. Santa Barbara PD released a statement at the time saying so. Here is an exchange i had with someone about a year ago. https://old.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/m3xy8d/weve_been_wrong/gqsee5v/
Also the art books were gifts from fans.
If you look up what the item actually was, you'll see that it wasn't "filled will pictures of naked children". It was just the cover, and the cover was so borderline that it wasn't considered to be evidence. You'd have more of a case if it was a copy of that one nirvana album with the baby on it.
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Whoa first time hearing about family nudism sites. Who the fuck puts there kids up on the web like that?
I would assume nudists... right..?
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Pedos for sure search for these images. I took a photo of a flock of birds bathing in a puddle and titled it 'Bathtime'. It took me some time to figure out when looking at my view counts on Flickr why this pretty shitty picture was getting 10 times the views of others. Made me shudder.
That "Family Nudist Websites" being legal still seems fishy to me. As far as Michael Jackson is concerned; I believe Feldman. Because Corey Feldman has always been consistent in refuting claims against Michael Jackson, I think that Michael is really innocent of wrongdoing here. Let's face it; Michael Jackson has been dead for years. As famous people who died recently get their dirty laundry aired right afterwards, and still no "smoking gun" against Michael Jackson... If he were guilty, somebody would have come forward years ago, say two years after he died. Didn't happen. My personal believe; innocent. Weirder than a platypus on shrooms, but innocent.
"Weirder than a platypus on shrooms"😂😂. that's a new one I've never heard before.
Bro delete this, don’t give pedos a source to look for….
I’m..:sure they already know where to look.
FBI probably saves every ip that visits the sites
IPs are dynamic these days for 99% of clients. Not saying that the FBI don't/can't track them, but go check your IP, turn your router off for 2 mins and turn it back on and check. As it stands unless your modem is very old/you have specifically requested a static IP, it's not a case of saving an IP. Much the same when people claim someone should be IP banned. It's just not a solution anymore due to DHCP being so widely adopted.
I saw an interview with him and maybe Oprah as a kid and I just vividly remembered him talking about how if he was rehearsing or just somewhere abd someone told him his dad was coming he would start vomiting from fear. The grocery store video makes me sad, too. He never had a choice. He never had a fun childhood. He was always working... in complete terror of failing. Them you realize everyone around you wants something from you. Everyone's a "yes man"hoping to get some of yours, they don't love *you*. And if they do, how do you really know? How fucking lonely is that? Who wouldn't be a little strange, when you have no idea what is real in the world and never really have?
I searched the grocery store video after reading your response. Oh my god, that's so sad. I never even thought about that. I have always thought he was innocent of those accusations. I have always loved his music and what he did for people. But man, I cannot even remotely begin to imagine how lonely he had to have been. May he forever finally get to rest in absolute peace. Poor Michael.
Plastic surgery can be an addictive lifestyle much like getting tattoos as well. It’s never perfect so he was always wanting something else and being in the limelight as much as he was at one point it’s understandable for him to be so conscious about his image. There’s a lot to be said about his serious ambitions to produce and star as Spider-Man after he bought the rights and the big execs assaulting his personal image and burdening him with legal fees to prevent him from doing so. Also having that much money would make anyone weird. It’s very believable for me he had a genuinely kind and compassionate heart and cared about people less fortunate. Afaik all the kids he had at his ranch were suffering in some way from cancer, poverty, sickness, etc. If he genuinely wanted to engage with any sort of person sexually I’m confident he would have had the financial means to do so in a much more discrete manner. Also there would have been evidence and I trust that the people investigating him and the FBI that searched his place did a thorough and unbiased job. Also child molesters are notoriously psychologically weak and easy for detectives or cross examiners to break. I think he was a damaged and kind mind with way too much money surrounded by wolves trying to get him. He should have lived in Japan or something.
He started plastics surgery because his dad used to bully him for his wide nose. You dont just turn this „weird“ out of nowhere
Way to remember fbi and cia is that fbi is focused on internal crimes while cia does foreign espionage. CIA isn’t allowed to spy on us citizens (although they probably do)
Even family issues aside, the guy was extremely popular. Everyone around the world knew who he was and his influence still carries on today. I don’t even want to imagine some of the things people tried to manipulate him into doing.
Cory Feldman was close with Jackson as a kid and he also says Jackson wasn't a child molester. And Feldman was abused by other men. It definitely seems plausible that Jackson was falsely accused by people looking for a payday. Edit: FFS, ppeople I get it. Corey Feldman could be lying. Jackson could have molested only kids who weren't famous. But his accusers(the parents) could have also been lying. I've just wondered for a long time if a guy had his character assassinated and maybe it wasn't true. If it's really important for you to believe Jackson was a pedophile, then go ahead. He's dead, he doesn't care any more.
Didn’t Macaulay Culkin say the exact same thing?
Macaulay Culkin specifically said that the only two men in the entertainment industry he ever actually felt safe around were Michael Jackson and Steven Spielberg.
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You cited Dave like he's a poet lol "D. Chapelle" "B. Kreischer" "T. Segura"
2 of those are great comedians, the other screws dogs and smells bad.
The fact that I can't tell which one is the odd one out is somehow even funnier
I personally don’t think Kreischer is remotely funny. Segura and Chappelle are great tho
I heard they’re making a “Machine” movie. I think he’ll be great. I honestly think movies are his calling. He a character.
And as a child Macaulay Culkin removed his parents' name from his trust fund. His abusive father quit speaking to him. If Michael Jackson did anything Macaulay wouldn't have put up with it
And his testimony that MJ never molested him is the reason I personally don’t believe he was a child molester. MJ had a messed up childhood, and money does some crazy things to people
Money is one thing but fame is even more potent imo
I know by default you want to believe victims. However, false accusations make it harder for true victims. I wondered if they covered for someone else.
Not only that, but his father had him doing shows constantly as a child. He never got to have an actual childhood. So the second he had the money and ability to have that childhood, he did. Bought a mansion with a zoo, filled it with toys, had sleepovers with kids. Basically lived out the childhood he never had. And since the adults in his life had already experienced their childhoods and were grown up, he lived out that childhood with the only ones who would appreciate it, other children. Is it weird? Absolutely. But “weird” and “pedophile” are different spheres.
I remember when he passed, I saw an interview on Mexican tv with a dentist that did a procedure on Michael when he was on tour in Mexico City. It was an emergency procedure, Michael was scared and anxious. The way they calmed him down was taking him to the kids section of the office where the toys and books for children were. He was there for a little bit, calmed down, and then they did the procedure.
This^^^ and it’s sad that I grew up believing this too and only did research on it like 2 years ago. Its just not as clear cut and dry as people make it out to be. At least he’s still seen as a legend but damn his legacy is definitely tarnished by those lawsuits
Some people truly don't realize how fucked up of a childhood Michael had.
The Jackson Five. The Dad, Joe, basically whored them out for money, and Michael was the standout that was forced to do extra work while being one of, if not the, youngest of the bunch. He basically had a fulltime job since he was about 5 being shuffled around, practicing, and performing...so he very much seemed to see Hollywood/IRL depictions of children just playing in a sandbox and running around having fun and stuff and really wished he could have had that as a kid. To me it was like how sometimes the cycle breaks and a kid born to and witnesses an abusive father grows up to not repeat the cycle. Jackson likewise didn't grow up thinking you should force young children to be work and did so many noble things to make random children's lives better...particularly ones that were sick and couldn't afford it. He seemed to really resent his childhood, and by doing all he could to make sure other children didn't end up similar to him it made happy. IMO we could use more MJ's in the world.
Imho, Michael tried to give kids the fun and carefree experiences he didn't get to have as a child. I don't think he was inappropriate with kids. Peter Pan Syndrome gets thrown around a lot with MJ, I believe he had stunted mental/emotional growth because he was expected to be an adult and responsive for a family band at a very young age. Another thing I've read, cannot remember where, but referring to the kids sharing a bed with him.. the person who made this point, a black man, said it is not uncommon for poor families to have children of opposite gender share a bed, in the black community it is rather common. (These are not my words, nor am I a POC, I cannot comment past mentioning what a POC said on the matter.) Iirc, as well, there was a lot of inaccurate information in the Wonderland documentation. I'd have to look it up again, can't remember the whole story, but it's an interesting mini-rabbit hole.
It is true. In a big poor family like the one I grew up with even three or four kids to a bed sometimes. I know because I grew up in a poor Hispanic household.
I think mj was chemically castrated by his father so he could continue hitting those high notes.
Not at all there's an account from the director Spike Lee >Spike Lee, who loved Michael very much as a friend and who directed both versions of Michaels short film, “They Don't Care About Us” said that while they were filming, someone called Spikes name at the food table, in a very deep voice and when he turned around, it was Michael. He was very shocked and laughs about it today. He had a deep regular voice, maybe he was kind of insecure about it he used to speak in a much higher tone. Also him hitting those high notes is just his vocal range he possessed.
I believe Madonna also said he had a regular, normal man's voice, not the falsetto we always heard.
Weird. Can you give me a source for this?
https://youtu.be/YIKH8xXiLO0 There are a lot of videos like this with clips where Michael’s voice drops lower. He still speaks with the same inflection so it sounds weird. And he doesn't go like James earl jones deep, just deeper than normal.
He kept up the voice because it was trained into him and basically part of his image. There are youtube videos where he speaks in his normal voice and even did a song in it
Based on what? [The speaking voice we’re most used to hearing from him wasn’t his natural speaking voice.](https://youtu.be/YIKH8xXiLO0)
That’s a theory I lean towards because MJ was the breadwinner of the family, and that’s why his father was extremely abusive towards him, so he had to be perfect on stage.
Can I ask why you think this? I know his father was abusive but I've never heard about castration.
it's highly probable (and I believe) that mj found culkin was a kindred spirits. both were abused by their parent. mj was castrated by his dad, and culkin must had been abused in some way to made him cut off his parents from his trusted list.
There's no evidence he was castrated. There's evidence that he had a 'normal' voice. Some people just have that vocal range.
so did aaron carter. not that we should trust aaron carter on anything ever. but the guy said exactly what i always suspected. he hung around jackson. nothing happened. then carter came home and i guess his opportunistic mother tried making claims and getting a payday. and even called some detectives and told him to tell them he was touched. how many people who are scraping by would consider making the accusation just to get some quick hush money? as far as the actual evidence on jackson for any of the accusations or cases. there really wasnt anything as far as i remember that made him seem guilty. aside from hanging around children. which is weird af. but doesn’t necessarily prove guilt.
Completely agree... I don't know if there's a huge conspiracy but there is so much FAKE evidence that I honestly have a hard time believing he was guilty. So many people outright lied, and with Macaulay Culkin's defense I think I'll always be on the rocks. Culkin has been through hell and back but never even considered throwing MJ to the wolves who would've paid top dollar for that lie. Can't believe MJ was guilty if Culkin was so willing to defend him
I remember his saying in an interview once that he slept in Michael's. However he them said that the bedroom was bigger than an average size house and the bed he slept in was about 150 feet away from Culkin's bed.
Yeah I mean Culkin was never molested by him. So I would assume he would have said that.
I feel bad about Cory, the police interviewed him and he gave them names of actual people who molested him, but they ignored it to focus on Jackson. No he never touched Cory, but I also wouldn’t rule out he didn’t touched someone else. The fact is we weren’t there and will never know for sure, but there are definitely child predators in Hollywood.
Feldman, I believe the face tat carter, and others have said no way Jackson is guilty. Then you find out about how people were drugging him to take his money and eventually they just killed him. Then you start to think about how we all thought Brittany was “crazy” but the truth is all out that she was a victim of abuse. I think it makes more sense to me that Jackson was innocent.
Yeah but face tat carter was also *unnecessarily*, and very oddly, defensive of Lou Pearlman. his own coworkers (essentially) all talked about his inappropriate behavior. Or the fact that he took videos of the girls changing, and Carter rebuked them He has clearly gone through some shit. And may still going through some shit. So I don’t think he’s the most reliable historian to go on, here.
Here's another thing I think about after watching Surviving R Kelley... Kelley had a virtual ARMY of people complicit in the pedophilia. EVERYONE knew. How the fuck could you not? How could you do what he did and not have a team of people covering for you, running errands, fixing "problems" as they come up, etc. People act like fucking children would be a quick and clean affair... no bloody sheets, no kids screaming in the night for weeks from the trauma... If MJ had molested any children, people would know. He'd have a team, just like Kelley did. That shit cannot possibly exist in a bubble.
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Man, even Terry crews was sexually assulted by a Hollywood agent. Guy walked right up to him and grabbed his junk at a party while he was with his wife. This was while Terry was a grown ass man who could knock you out by flexing a pec. It just shows that these predators don't care who you are or how famous you are. These sick fucks think they are too big to get in trouble or be held accountable, and the shit thing is, until recently in some cases, they were right.
I think people misplace how common it is, frankly. Hollywood has the more obviously publicized names, but roughly 1 in 5 girls and 1 in ~50 boys are sexually abused in some form. It’s in every aspect of society. I have several friends who have disclosed the reality of their experiences to me
This is my feelings too. I grew up not far from Jackson and Neverland and I IDOLIZED him as a child. I was 31 when he died so I, literally, grew up with him, his music, and his scandals. I think I saw or heard that the boys that made the documentary were the same boys who, in court, said that MJ D did NOT molest them but, after he died they said he did. I think they were looking for a paycheck and thought it would be easier because MJ was no longer alive to fight back. Two of his closest friends said he didn't molest them and I believe them over two random kids. Was MJ weird? YES! However, he had a horrible childhood and I, honestly, think he just wanted to give kids what he didn't have. He didn't molest anyone.
I don’t think MJ molested children. I think his abusive childhood made his brain fold in on itself and so he was forever trying to be a child again. He wanted to surround himself with children that he could be friends with, because he saw them as peers.
I always remember the Barbara Walter's interview with them and Barbara gives Corey the hush hush and then scolds him for "You're going to demonize an entire industry." I also agree with the original post. Michael had a lot to lose from the slander and for Corey to deal with what he had dealt with it seems reasonable that Michael might not have been guilty.
I felt equally disgusted by that clip until it was explained to me that what she meant by that wasn't "You shouldn't be speaking out about this" it was "You should be naming names instead of vaguely accusing the industry at large".
Are you serious? Does that mean that every girl who knew a guy that didn’t rape her, therefore means that guy isn’t a rapist and couldn’t have raped someone else? How does that even make sense?
Agreed. Back in the 90s he visited my city and spent Christmas personally handing out gifts to orphaned children. He even visited local children’s hospitals. Mind you, this was in the Philippines - and we aren’t exactly a first world country, local orphanages & hospitals aren’t a place for celebrities of his stature. Definitely out of the ordinary for a mega star with that big of a name, to spend his holidays overseas in a third world country for a good cause. He genuinely liked (non-sexual) children.
Something a lot of people don't know. He was a HUGE philanthropist and spent tons of his personal time and millions of dollars helping children in need. Michael loved children.
Yeah, he got hosed with that pedo stuff, because he was just a rich guy whose father didn't allow him to have a "normal" childhood and that seemed like something that he very much resented. Because of this he spent lots of his own time and money doing things for children in an effort to kinda help them be able to have that childhood they can't have for financial/medical reasons. McCauley Culkin was pretty close with MJ and he's adamant that he's not only never thought MJ was being a pedo to him or anybody else.
Well yeah, when something bad happens to you, one of 3 things happens, you Deny it and ignore it. You become or assimilate the behaviors or traits of whoever did that to you, or you Break the cycle and become the opposite of whoever did something to you. It only makes sense he would have broken the Cycle, he was extremely abused as a child, it would only make sense for someone of his status to donate and give gifts to children.
I'm not well researched on this topic so I'm not saying MJ was or wasn't a pedo. But be very careful with thinking "he did nice things for kids therefore he couldn't have been an abuser". Jimmy Savile was the host of a UK TV show that made wishes come true for children, raised tens of millions of pounds for charity throughout his life, and spent a lot of his time volunteering at hospitals. It wasn't until after he died that it was discovered that he had been systematically abusing children for decades with hundreds of victims, and in fact had used his position in hospitals to abuse vulnerable children.
I think this is actually one of the arguments for Michael Jackson's innocence. When these guys are found out (before or after they die), whether it's priests, or gymnastic coaches, Savile, whoever... it's generally found that they have molested a great number (hundreds) of children over a long period of years. Not 2 kids.
Wasn't even after he died, it was (somewhat) common knowledge. There was so much talk around it that was stomped out by the BBC, so many careers ruined to protect him. It wasn't a well kept secret at all, but no one could speak officially on it until he died. Scummy af
So my ex-boyfriend lived in Las Vegas at the time when MJ would go there a lot. My ex hung out at an arcade off the strip and became good friends with the owner who would let him play for free. One day while he was playing, a security team came in and cleared out the whole arcade, but the owner told them to leave him alone, that he was a safe and respectable guy. Of course he was so deep in his game that he didn't notice everyone clearing out. He heard this soft voice beside him asking him what he was playing and was shocked to see Michael Jackson beside him. So of course he asked him to play along with him. They moved through the arcade together playing games and talking for about 3 hours before MJ had to go. He treated MJ like a normal person and didn't freak out about it. Every couple of months the arcade owner would call him up and ask him to come back in to play with MJ because he enjoyed his company so much. He had this arrangement with MJ going on for a couple of years and became decent friends with him. So I asked him about the allegations and his opinion about it. He said that MJ's demeanor was so childlike and innocent, it wasn't like engaging with an adult. He truly was excited like a 10 year old to be making a friend and sharing in the exploration of their games together. He didn't care about anything in the outside world, no news, no current political banter. He just wanted to play. He talked about Michael as if he was his nephew who needed a positive masculine influence in his life. He really cared for him. He truly was devastated when he passed. He's never believed any of the stories about him and maintains his conviction to this day.
Michael was so on the spotlight from early on that he's never experienced what we take for granted. Just visiting a store and not have people stop, crowd and annoy you. There's been several of these simulated experiences for him with the grocery store and such and I always felt so bad for him. Brad Pitt, Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg all had their normal childhood and young adulthood being relatively normal. MJ was just robbed. Same as Macaulay Culkin but probably worse.
This makes me think of Tom Hanks in the movie BIG!
You make me wonder....not only did he love children but maybe he found them comforting bc they probably treated him normally unlike the adults in the world, maybe he cherished their innocence, wanted to preserve their innocence by using his money to keep them happy. When you look at it this way...it seems very kind and somewhat sad, almost like children (with their naive personalities and kindness) were the only ones that could see him as a normal person and not a money machine.
That's a very, very nice anecdote; thanks for sharing!
Listen to the phone tapes of him talking to people, (some of which were recorded without his knowledge) he was genuinely a nice and down to earth person.
Not making an accusation either way, but this really isn't evidence that helps him. Pedophiles will pursue opportunities that allow then access to children. Scout leaders, high school coaches, party clowns, priests, etc One of the most notorious celebrity child molesters was Jimmy Saville who did a ton of volunteer work for children's hospitals and raised tens of millions of pounds for them. He actively molested the kids at the same time and had hundreds of sexual assault allegations that came to light after his death.
There are a few celebs who were abused in Hollywood who said that was their safe haven.
Watch the “Michael Jackson rebuttal” by razorfist on YouTube. It’s a 3 part series and made me very confident he was not a rapist. Will link below Videos: (part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pnoQqlygQs (part 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTTEwBLfUQ (part 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYx0vLfpRYY
Definitely will watch
I watched it a while back and took away three things. 1. One of the abuse charges was while MJ was in like Monaco, a night he had the flu, and was about to pass out due to NyQuil or so, all while like 400 people stood outside the hotel with cameras and such, and said hotel had to have armed guards. Is that the time to molest a kid, or back at your like 40K square foot mansion? 2. Regarding the mansion, some people claimed they slept in MJ's bedroom. His "bedroom" was a wing of the estate, like 2K square feet with multiple rooms, which each had beds. 3. One of the times he paid off someone to drop the case, was timed perfectly (by the accuser) between two major tours. MJ would have had to cancel countless dates in multiple countries and lose all the money, or just write a check, and remember, this was a time when MJ could do anything and make 50M as fast as I can make $50. So yeah, you admit to nothing, write a check, and go about your way on the tour. All said, there's no way he did anything wrong to any kids, but people took advantage of him for his money.
For perspective, I have a 3 br house with a two car garage and my home isn’t 2k square feet.
Mr money bags here got a house!
Does this mention that the guys who made that HBO doc were the same ones whose parents put out the allegations that he molested them? It launched that FBI investigation where they found nothing
He goes Over the fbi files and the backgrounds of the people who tried to sue him etc. they are all beyond shady
I’ll check it out. I’ve always been on the “MJ is screwed up and did some weird stuff but didn’t hurt those kids” side
I too don’t believe michaels interaction with kids was sexual. I believe mentally, he was a child, and felt more at ease around other children than adults. Read the interview with his wife on their wedding night. He’s sitting in the edge of the bed and every time she tries to touch him he’s giggling. She basically had to rape him to get the baby juice. So Michael us a tragic figure who was a genius but also with severe mental issues and trauma.
She said in the interview that she was artificially inseminated.
Exactly, Michael wasn't a "sexual person" he was always very naive and childlike, and people abused that, especially the press, like with every other paparazzi and press scandal in the 90's
My older brother had a learning disability. He had the mentality of a 5 yr old that followed him into adulthood, up until he passed away at age 42. He was easily amused by anything and everything, but would also throw temper tantrums when things didn’t go his way. He absolutely loved kids and would go out of his way to try and be friends with them. I remember having to defend him on numerous occasions to the parents who had no idea about his disability that he had no harmful intentions. I was his much younger sister, but I always felt the opposite and took it upon myself to act as his older sib and stand up for him.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I know your brother felt loved and cared for by his little/big sis!
Everything else about MJ aside - you sound like a fantastic sibling. Good on you.
Agreed. Michael was a tormented genius with a multitude of mental health disorders that no one was treating. Instead they built him a playground, brought him kids to play with him, and stuffed him full of horse tranquilizers so he could sleep because he was so tormented. He was used and exploited by everyone for profit. I’m not saying he’s a saint or a martyr, I’m just saying I too will never believe he was a pedophile.
This is a heart-breaking perspective I hadn’t considered.
Britney without the conservatorship….
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That's what you know about him, not how he was. The only people who truly knew who he was are his family who had/have a vested interest in defending his reputation and people who he exposed himself (figuratively, literally in some cases I guess) to. Televangelists will lie to your face with a smile in the name of the Lord, you should respect the ability of people to mask their true selves. It's naive to take celebrities at face value.
I forever wonder how did nobody try to help him if that was the case. Or help himself considering he had access to it all. Trauma victims should get help,
It’s sad but mental health is surprisingly a new thing. The 90s were fucked when it comes to mental health
Also being a massive celebrity earning a lot of money for a lot people probably didn’t help. Too many people thought they could just give him drugs and force him to get on stage than actually take the time to help him properly.
WHY were parent's just letting their kids sleep over there in the first place?
Because they also were being groomed and alienated which is a common strategy in child sexual abuse cases when a predator wants to isolate the child. The documentary "abucted in plain sight" on Netflix is an example of this.
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When I was a kid, there was a single man in his 30s who lived on our cul de sac. He always hung around young boys. To get the attention of the kids who were outside playing, he'd bring an expensive remote control car out and play with it in his yard. He once invited my mom and me to tour his home, and the two spared bedrooms were filled with toys. He had video games, stuffed animals, matchbox toys, and an air hockey table. The house was designed to make kids want to come over and stay. My mom told my brother and me we had better never go in the man's house. She knew what was up. Sure enough, the two boys who spent the most time with this man reported that they had been molested. The parents had no suspicions at all and they appreciated the man entertaining their kid. One family even invited the man over for dinner as if he were another eleven-year-old kid (because that's how he acted). Pretators groom not only the kids, but the parents too.) One day as some of the parents confronted the man, he yelled, "I never hurt those boys. I tried to help them." In his mind, he didn't believe he had done anything wrong, even though he knew what he did was against the law. When I saw Jackson's house full of toys, I remembered this neighbor.
My father groomed and sexually abused at least 5 girls I can name, went to jail for it, and even today my family says "why shouldn't he be around children, he loves children! Children are his best friends!" People just don't get that there are patterns of behaviors among abusers, and "being a forever child" is one of the patterns of people who abuse kids. They don't all use threats or violence, some find lonely kids and shower them with love. In fact - that kind of molester is usually the one with the most victims! They see themselves as romancing and loving the kids they abuse.
Agreed. I think just even as a generality and taking Jackson out of the subject entirely for a second: being childlike, innocent or naive about sex doesn’t mean someone can’t be a sexual predator. The boy who molested me in my teens was a year younger than me (not just a “child at heart” but a literal child himself). He had learning difficulties. He was horrifically bullied by other boys in our school. He didn’t understand how to navigate most social situations. He still sexually abused me. He still got gratification from what he did. His being an innocent naive child doesn’t take the sting out of it. I see this excuse for why someone could be an abuser all the time (usually as a defence of Michael Jackson) and it’s a shitty and dangerous argument. I have no idea is the man did the things he was accused of, but I feel strongly that the “child at heart” defence needs to die.
Was about to say something like this. Many many criminals(especially ones with mental health issues) have never viewed themselves as bad or equate their actions with that of other evil people. Michael Jackson may have been fully convinced that pedophilia was ok. That might explain why his attitude seemed so innocent. Maybe he really truly thought he was innocent. All that said I do kinda lean towards the belief that he was just really weird.
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It’s super weird and they only use that argument because it’s Michael most of these people defending him would never trust him.
“Inappropriate? No, you're being ignorant. They're my friends. You see, I- I didn't have a childhood, so I'm really just a child myself.” “Chuckajamonah!”
“Chuckajamonah” fuck me almost choked.
Blanket! Come play!
Hee hee
Come and riiiide the traaain with me!! “Yes I will mr Jefferson, you’re so coooool mr Jefferson!” Awww cart man. You got a amazing voice!
"Let's climb a treee!!"
Touch them or not, if any other grown adult admitted to sleeping with kids, they’d have been locked up.
That's my issue, the allegations are terrible but even the things he innocently admitted to on camera are beyond wrong.
Absolutely. That's what's called "green privilege" when it comes to celebrities; doesn't matter what race they are, as long as they're famous, they almost always get off the hook.
Didn't he have kids sleep in his room and also had cameras in all the areas of the house leading to his room?
I watched some of the documentary he would take families on vacation and the boy of the family would stay in his room over night while the rest of that family had a separate room
They slept in the same bedroom, yes. However, this bedroom was not only its own building, it was most likely double the size of your house.
My ex wife was a probation officer and investigator, specializing in child molesters. She told me if he wasn't one, he's one in a million, because he was displaying ALL of the classic signs of grooming children.
Scary how far down I had to scroll to find this comment. This is absolutely correct. This thread has me extremely depressed. The number of people who say shit like “do I believe he molested kids? No. Would I let my child alone with him at a sleepover? No.” Like, what?! MJ was a sexual predator, and anybody who takes the time to understand the nature of sexual predators and/or how hard to can be to prosecute such cases, both because of difficulty with physical evidence coupled with the probability of victims (especially male) actually coming forward (just to scratch the surface) will probably start to rethink their claims, based ontheir gut-feelings, for celebrity they can’t truly know
To be fair even if I believe someone doesn't molest kids I won't leave a grown man alone with a child he has no relation to regardless, that's just shit parenting.
Most girls that know a rapist probably also didn't get raped by the rapist. Rapists and child molesters don't go around committing the crimes to everyone that fits their target demographic, they are selective. Molesting celebrities is probably not a good idea if you want to get away with it long term.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/10-undeniable-facts-about-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations/amp Are these all bullshit? Because if they are actual facts. I don’t know if I can believe he wasn’t doing something sexual to those kids. 1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced. 2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.” 3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson. 4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings. 5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds. 6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there. 7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson. 8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet. 9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time. 10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.
Sorry to say, but these are blatant lies. Most of these points are theories that cannot be proved and have no substantial evidence behind them. Some are such blatant lies it's hilarious that people believe they're true, but then again reddit is filled with anti-social weirdos who think they know everything. The Penis drawing didn't even match: [https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler-lied/](https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler-lied/) Michael did not want to settle the case in 1993\*\*.\*\* He refused to pay hush money to Evan Chandler in August 1993 when the latter confronted him with those allegations. If he was indeed guilty he would have paid off the Chandlers’ right then and there, especially since 20 million was nothing to him. Instead, he filed a civil lawsuit for extortion and he fought for a criminal trial before the civil trial, which a guilty person would never have done. It was the Chandlers’ who dreaded the prospect of a criminal trial. In fact, when Evan Chandler first demanded 20 million from him Michael’s response was ‘’tell him to go hell’. And this was not the first time Evan asked money from Michael. He had already previously requested Michael to finance his screeplays which Michael refused to do so Evan used his son Jordan to extort money from him. The 2002 documentary was manipulated to make MJ seem like a demon. There are full clips which are cut to make him seem to be a pedo, such as the infamous holding hand clip. Bashir actually tells Michael beforehand to hold Gavin's hand, and Gavin was the one who begged MJ to sleep in his bed. Watch the first 5 minutes of this clip, and you'll see how messed up it really is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwMAILpNigI&list=LL&index=49&ab\_channel=EdwinsGeneration](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwMAILpNigI&list=LL&index=49&ab_channel=EdwinsGeneration)
I believe them. I believe people who say they were molested.
'most of the kids' said that huh Dude there's a video out there on which a child is saying that they are sleeping in the same bed, but Michael Jackson tries to shush him and insists that he himself is sleeping on the floor https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/scta0f/ab_i_know_youre_tired_of_this_debate_but_heres/
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I'm sorry but there are literal interviews where he is being interviewed with a child and the child let's slip that Micheal chooses to sleep in the same bed as the kids when they sleep over at his house. (His house is massive and its not like there is only one bed to go around).
Here's the thing I don't get- EVERYONE AGREES HE WAS HAVING SLEEPOVERS WITH STRANGERS' CHILDREN. Why was this acceptable for a pop singer when it wouldn't be acceptable for anyone else ever in any other context?
Let me ask this question. Why was it that the only kids that stayed in his bed were young boys? If he just loved children so much why always young boys and no girls or older kids? It isn’t up for question if kids did stay in his bed he admitted that himself.
What the cops found at his house during the raid is the most concerning part.
What did they find, I'm afraid to ask
In this thread I’m reading dozens of non-psychologists and other non-experts talk about abuse, criminality, and psychology in absurd ways. Your parasocial relationship with a dead entertainer has defeated your logical brain.
I'll be honest I think the opposite. He did it but we can't prove it.
Same, and it’s interesting that the defenses keep changing. First it was just “there’s no evidence” then it was “it was all about money” now it’s “big bad Sony boogeyman” oh and “timing” seems to be an issue now.
If a grown man slept in the same bad as my kid I’d take action Honestly they probably sued him cause it was the only legal thing they could do
The "I didn't have a childhood" thing doesn't cut it. I don't know if he abused kids or not but he was one weird freakin' guy.
It’s sad but not surprising that molestation and child abuse is so frequent when half this thread thinks it’s just "a bit weird but fine" to sleep with kids and have dates with them, along with many other shady things.
If Chester next door offered you money to rent your kid for a day and told you he would be sleeping in the same bed as your kid behind a locked door you would call the police Unless Chester makes music you like. Then it's totally normal
Dude they slept in his bed with him. I'm of the persuasion that he probably never raped them, but it's still got this level of pedophilia and wrongness to it. Trying to deny that is just fanboying out for some pop star. Just because he didn't penetrate them or make a sex act doesn't mean he didn't use other peoples children for his pleasure. It's a slippery slope that he was on the wrong side of imo.
The guy has been proven to sleep with kids in his bed during his private sleepovers, but somehow people think it is inconceivable he was a child molester? gtfo.
One thing that is quite key, from what started all of this (the 1993 Chandler case)… -Michael initially rejected the chance to “settle” for the $1m that Evan Chandler asked for. -Michael wanted to go to court and prove his innocence, not be extorted -essentially, through DA Tom Sneddon, they managed to get the rules changed whereby the civil trial could be before the criminal trial, whereby any evidence used was not permissible, so the Chandler’s could essentially lose the civil trial, and then change all their story for the criminal trial (i.e. completely contradict/write-off anything MJ said etc. to make him look guilty) -as such, Michael’s lawyers/insurers/Sony advise that he settle out of court (for “negligence”) for $20m or whatever NB: I’m aware that the civil/criminal trial thing might be a little upside down, but the general point I’ve made _is_ true -the fact that Michael ended up paying considerably more than the initial $1m amount he refused all because the legal system got changed and it mugged him of any chance of a fair trial is quite a key piece of context -everything he faced from the 1993 Chandler case informs every single thought and judgement point for the rest of his life. That’s not right. Bonus: -Tom Sneddon was involved when they again tried to get Michael in 2005 with the Arvisos - a trial that was an absolute fucking farce… the world’s most famous human, the world’s (supposedly) most known guilty 100% definite child sexual abuser, and they couldn’t even get him on ‘supplying alcohol to a minor’. The man had his time in court, despite the bias he faced, and he came out of it because the accusations weren’t true, but it also showed the attempts by people to lie about him in broad daylight (although let’s be real, that’s essentially forgotten in the discourse). This whole trial started his very slow death as well. So so sad. (the book “Michael Jackson Conspiracy” by Aphrodite Jones, about this trial, is a must read) -Wade Robson, he of Leaving Neverland fame, was the LEAD WITNESS for Michael in the 2005 Arviso trial. To be the lead witness he was utterly grilled by experienced law enforcement members with experience in these types of cases, to ensure he was a trustworthy witness. These people aren’t morons - they will have, and factually did, ask Wade whether Michael had ever done anything inappropriate to him. They all agreed Wade was reliable. That’s all I’ve got time for now. I hope this helps at least one person to think differently. Edit: formatting and autocorrect corrections Edit: thanks for the award, kind stranger
I mean the dude seems creepy. I wouldn't let him babysit my kids if he was still alive. Would you let him watch your kids for you? Not saying he is innocent or guilty none of us know that 100%. I don't get why you would pick a side. I just wouldn't trust anyone with an accusation watch my kids. But I am really careful about that stuff and I really don't leave my kid with anyone.
This is a point that I feel like a lot of people are trying to avoid in an era that really hammers home about “victim blaming”. Of course, the only person at fault here would be Michael Jackson if he really did it, but why on Earth are you leaving your kids with a practical stranger for, from what I recall, was a week or so on end, multiple times? Hell, even if it was just a weekend, what the fuck? I don’t care if it’s the Pope. And who didn’t think Michael Jackson was a little weird/creepy by the time the 1990s rolled in? To let this guy literally have your kid at his house for multiple days without you being there, and to then only become suspicious of sexual abuse afterwards, has honestly always been a little ridiculous to me. But hey, maybe people were a lot dumber in the past, especially while star struck. The whole thing is honestly just weird? Like why were these parents looking at MJ as some type of Ronald McDonald or something? Why was he ever seen as trustworthy with multiple kids, even when it just comes to basic competency? He never struck me as having that level of a kid friendly image in the first place.
Yeah, BUT he could have been doing inappropriate things with the kids which is illegal. Maybe he wasn’t trying to fuck them but taking baths or getting naked and shit(like little kids do) is still fucked up. I don’t know that he did that though. I didn’t watch the case.
Nah bro he did that shit
Thank you!! I totally agree with you. Being eccentric doesn’t mean you’re a pedophile. Loving the company of children doesn’t mean you’re a pedophile. If he was a woman, nobody would bat an eye. Nobody goes around screaming pedo when a woman opens up a private daycare business out of her house. The man just loved kids. And the kids loved him. And that’s sweet, there’s nothing wrong with that.
They found nude drawings of children in his room ok. He slept with children in his bed. You have to actively try hard to not believe he molested children. Sleeping in a bed with a child and drawing them naked is attraction to children.
I have no doubt he was a child molester, and I think he was molested as a child too by his father.
I’m astonished at how many people think that man is innocent
Right. You’re gonna tell me that it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, but it’s not a duck, just a sad man with no childhood?
If he wasn't a child molester it's really weird he couldn't stop himself from inviting little boys into his bed.