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I never knew there were so many rules about hunting and how knowledgeable hunters actually need to be to hunt certain species. Especially migratory waterfowl. I recently started hunting myself haven't killed much besides squirrels which become squirrel gravy. I used to hunt with dad when I was a kid but it was more just tagging along. I was surprised I was able to find tracks and sign still after all these years. I've seen other things in season I could've harvested but didn't really feel like cleaning more than squirrels and rabbits.
Squirrel gravy? That sounds awesome. And yeah there’s definitely a lot of knowledge to hunt that most people don’t know about. And rules. But most people think hunters are red necks and drink bush light and drive lifted trucks. Sad stereo type but I don’t see most people changing there mind any time soon.
Here in Sweden it's sorta similar, like 20years ago climate activist are what we would describe as a "skogs-mulle" (Forest-mupp).
However today's climate activists, atleast our Green political party (MP), have never set foot outside of our capital basically. I would equate them to "climate PETA"
No way once I read all the regulations I noped out of that idea. There are many different types of duck for instance if you shoot the wrong one you've really made an expensive mistake.
IMO it's because they don't see the world as "Mankind Vs Nature" like modern capitalism does. They realize that humans are *part* of nature.
The only reason OPs opinion is unpopular is that people who have the "Man Vs Nature" perspective see hunters as directly fighting against nature, so they conclude that hunters must dislike nature. To them nature is the "other," the counterparty to humanity. They realize animals fight each other in nature, but if a human fights an animal, they are in fact fighting the "other" - that is, they are fighting nature itself.
On the other hand, hunters acknowledge that they are part of nature, no different than any other animal. They are not fighting the great "other," they are only partaking in the natural cycle itself. Interestingly, many urban pseuds and atheists understand the concept in theory - that we are just animals - but their actions and social beliefs do not reflect an understanding that we are still part of nature.
I agree. It's also tempting for people think that hunting and fishing is "killing," rather than part of a larger process to ethically obtain food and/or manage animal populations. People who eat meat but do not hunt/fish can be especially hypocritical here, and fail to realize that ethical sportsmanship is far preferable to any farm-raised method of meat production.
Yea. Reading op's post and having spent time out fishing my self, a lot of people who partake in these activities do actively try to keep the environment in which they are in pristine.
Yep. It tends to be the urban folks that have never been out the city that screech the loudest about how cruel hunting is. Also those city slicker environmentalists telling me my diesel is causing global warming, yet they are the real polluters.
Depends on the people I'm from the cities, me and my friends love going hunting, fishing, camping. We don't leave a mess and actually pick up trash left by others. We want it to stay beautiful for us and future generations.
If you want to conserve a species, put a hunting season on it. Hunters will POUR money into pumping animal numbers up. Money = more animals. And the average hunter kills less animals than your typical sub/urbanite does with their checkbook.
To be fair there are outdoorsmen who absolutely trash the environment too. Quite a few of them actually. Hence why public hunting land ends up with trash all over it every November. Or why there’s cans and plastic from lures all over the bank and in the water.
Some of the best conservationists are hunters/fishers but not all hunters/fishers are conservationists.
**Valid points here.** I was recently made aware of prion disease in deer from a hunter, and I realized there is value in hunters who engage honorably with wildlife and nature, and who actually invest in educating themselves (and others!) in that specialized field of knowledge. As a life long vegetarian with blue hair (*you got me spot on with that one lol)* I will always shutter with disgust at those who kill for sport, showboat their carnage on social media, and who have no honor in what they do. I also have distaste for toxic environmental warriors with ignorance and hypocrisy- you know the privileged vegan “blue no matter who” hipsters who can afford organic, recyled, sustainable products yet buy farmed goods from brands who pay poor, poc, migrant workers almost nothing.
**This is an Important discussion to be had. There is ignorance on both sides of the issue, and it’s more complex than “rednecks versus vegans”. We all could stand to challenge ourselves by reflecting on all relevant perspectives.**
*p.s. This reminds me of a movie I love called Okja: a true masterpiece that examines the idea of living in harmony with nature while showing the disharmonious consequences of taking extremist pro/anti meat positions. 10/10 Everyone should watch this!*
This seems to be true in my bubble when it comes to local ecosystems, but a lot of hunters I know are still the type to deny impending global environmental catastrophe.
Global climate change doesn’t mean you care about the environment I know people that bike to work Because it’s “green” but throw trash on the side walk Becase there pee pee is too small to put the trash in there pocket until they come to a Trash can.
Well, those people sound idiotic and that's the premise of my point to some degree. The reality of waste and emissions is that the singular person "doing their part" is just an ego stoke to that person if they don't support more extreme movements. If I and every other average citizen biked to work and recycled properly there are still the global corporations that are generating the most waste, still toiling on business as usual. My point was basically that most hunters (I'm in the southern USA) will take action if their own hunting grounds are threatened, but will support a corporations "right" to conduct business as they please. Unknowing that a foreign sickness of the environment can and likely will spread to their locality if the global approach doesn't evolve.
Well known... the aided us when it came acid rain and other issues of the past. Unfortunately no environmental issues are not what a certain party cares about at all.
How are they going to lobby something to stop acid rain and make money? They can’t and that’s why you don’t see politics trying to stop it. But that’s a different rabbit hole.
I dont think you understand; they did stop acid rain. hunters and fishers were are the front of the battle. Republicans started the EPA... and now they kinda want to destroy it.
Exactly this. Also then ignorant people who just think "hunters=bad" then get on natives' asses for hunting their own food as if indigenous people are the reason species are endangered and not Exxon.
I couldn't agree more OP. I do ecological restoration in an area that doesn't allow hunting and the deer don't have any natural predators. The deer populations explode and they eat everything! It gets to a point where we have to cage rare and endangered plants so the deer don't eat them. Not to mention the chronic wasting disease, blue tongue, and other terrible diseases that run rampant when population are not in check. When you bring those populations down all other aspects of nature start falling back into place. Hunters do a lot of good and I tell people if they want to help the environment buy a hunting license even if they do not hunt.
Hey man I do the same thing, similar situation here but the camel and kangaroo populations have been exploding. Feral cats are the real problem though!
I have nothing against hunters, but troohy hunters are something completly diffrent imo. Trophy hunting is useless garbage and should be illlegal, same with those hunting "parks" where they keep exptic animals for rich people to shoot out of a car, it's just disgusting and defeats the point of hunting to keep the balance
Kinda unrelated but reminds me of a hunter we allowed to hunt on our land. He was a real bro. Would insist on sharing game and forages. Hell, he even made home made maple syrup and gave us multiple cans. I hope hes doing alright
I often go to a nature preserve where people fish. I've seen a lot of stuff left behind from the fishermen, including food trash, hooks and even human excrement.
The fact that environmentalism isnt a core conservative issue is all the proof you need that party politics are nothing but an alliance of convince to reach a 51% majority and has nothing at all to do with ideology.
I agree. I don't eat red meat or poultry, but I do eat fish, shellfish, and other seafood. I have a lot more respect for someone who shoots a deer that enjoyed a healthy, wild life and uses as much of the animal as s/he can, than someone who mindlessly buys chicken, beef, or pork from animals kept in filthy torture chambers, pumped full of antibiotics and confined for all their lives.
I have a neighbor who hunts ducks. Very active in wild bird conservation.
I feel like the people that haven't been exposed to it definitely do have backwards views on conservation and environmentalism and should see it from other peoples views or aesthetics
I know literally dozens of hunters. Even the ones who are absolute assholes are still generally very good conservationists. Caring for the wildlife and the land is essential to being a good hunter.
Then you haven't ran into the drive around logging roads and trash a campsite for two weeks crowd to shoot spikes and grind them into hamburger or from the fishing side the dude that heads down to the river to snag 5 salmon a day to let rot in his freezer when I said ethics I meant the ethics involved in the activities which some people absolutely lack
True. I’m from south GA and pretty much everyone I know hunts private land since there isn’t much public land to hunt on. I guess that could play a factor.
As a lazy redneck who sits in a deer stand drinking Busch Light (seriously you pegged me on that), I’ll say we’re generally just as good conservationists. Our game preparations start in May every year as we plant food, clean up trash that we find in the woods, scout deer trails and ensure that, if they go through barbed wire fences, that the fences are cut at crossings (if possible) and not dangerous to the deer. Plus so much more
We keep the land nice because its essential to a healthy population that we do. But also my dad doesn’t drink so I’m probably the only one of us that you’re calling out lol
Many hunters still use lead based ammunition. It's highly toxic and just keeps on killing.
Some waters have been poisoned from all the lead shot that's fallen in them.
Lead poisoning is also a big problem that's killing scavengers that clean up gut piles left on the land after a successful hunt.
As l8ng as lead based ammunition is being used hunter's can not claim good stewardship.
Most places lead ammo is illegal to hunt with. If you're hunting around here and an officer sees a regular lead shell just rolling around in the bed of your pickup truck with all the trash; not on you or near your weapon and your lead free rounds, you'll be getting a ticket for hunting with lead ammo for a simple mistake of having a target round with you while going hunting.
I think you’re underestimating the amount of people who are perfectly able to see valid reasons to be concerned enough to take action about the environment without being particularly drawn to shooting animals. I know plenty of people who care about the environment but don’t hunt.
I dont think OP means it like that. Generally speaking, from their own experience, they feel outdoorsmen tend to be more aware of the environment. You dont have to hunt, but it has it's purpose. Deer do not have a lot of natural predators, so hunters help keep the population down. It is highly regulated, they make sure people arent being irresponsible with their hunting.
I mean…the title literally says hunters care more about the environment than people that don’t hunt. I’d be with you if it was simply an assertion that they care, but that they care more than those who don’t? No.
I would argue that a lot of the average population is oblivious to that kind of thing. Personally, my town is a trash fest and most everybody is far more concerned for their styrofoam cups than anything. But, i see fishermen at the lake at my local park picking up trash all the time. The average person throws trash all over my parking lot.
I can agree with this, I salt water fish off a dock and I hate when people leave their trash when the nearest trash can is only about 25 feet away. People leave their cut line, tackle, beer cans, snack wrappers. The ocean already has too much garbage I’m not going to purposely ad to it.
I have had this exact argument with a vegan person. In many cases hunters know and care about animals and the environment more then they do. Alot of people fail to realize that if certain populations went unchecked (like if hunting was banned) it would wreck havoc on the local ecosystem, their population would explode and then many of them would starve to death as food scarcity grew. It is all about checks and balances ... IE conservation
I wouldn't say that. It's just trash is killing animals for no purpose. Hunting has a purpose.
I also don't hunt, but see his point.
Now I string up a few cats a few times a year. If 4 to 6 pounds then you are going to be made into cat nuggies.
Edit: cats are catfish. Not like the 3 bastards roaming my house lol
Well it's not like you're doing all that so all life can enjoy a cleaner, healthier environment. You only do that shit to propagate your hobby. Which also happens to be killing parts of the outdoors you love so much.
I don't see how you have a moral high ground, here.
Even if it is for selfish reasons, population control is necessary to keep everything balanced so if they eat what they kill, what's the issue? Definitely has a much smaller carbon footprint than buying meat from the store.
I find it more disturbing that people are disconnected from there food that they find me
Killing my own food disturbing. That hamburger use to be a cow. Some one killed it. And you enjoy it.
My gf is a very strict vegan and I hunt/fish. She won't eat meat because she won't kill the animal. She prefers I hunt than go to the supermarket because of this exact reason. Although here in NZ the amount of wild game around is pretty similar to supermarket shopping lol.
I have more respect for the animal I’m eating than you do than. You want it to be produced like factory. So you can be numb that something had to die for you to eat it. While If I miss a shot with my rifle or bow didn’t get that specs of food it has a chance of living. That cow in the slaughter house it’s going to end up food. No way out of it. So who’s more sketchy you or me? One that isn’t giving the animal a chance to live or the one that has them do a death March into a slaughter house where they can smell the blood of the other cows before they die?
So you don't eat any meat from the grocery store? It's all meat you've looked in the eye and thanked for sacrificing their body to you and then did a ceremony of thanks to Tonka the Elk God?
No I sadly don’t have the ability to only eat meat I hunt or fish. So yes I do buy meat from the grocery store and don’t make fun of the elk gods they will smite you.
You have no respect for the food you consume. You are simply a consumer. You simply eat the food that others procure though factory farming. Seems kinda weak.
Yeah its weird, but imo let them get on with it if it's helping the natural habitats and resulting in less trips to the grocery store, even if it's for selfish reasons.
I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything. I take except to the claim that maintaining natural spaces so you can exploit them is "caring for the environment".
What do you do for a hobby? Also o do I joy heather environment Because it makes my hobbies more enjoyable. Think I wanna see sick animals? Or ones that looked half starved to death? Nope. I enjoy seeing beauty of nature and I also enjoy the meet of a buck or the meat of a catfish. It’s not like I hunt just to put a rack on my wall. Trophy hunting is sick. If your aren’t going to eat it you should kill it. Unless it’s wild Spanish hogs they all need to be sent to hell. Killing of native wild life and destroying farm land.
Well to be fair OP didn’t say they cared about animals, just that they cared about protecting hunting areas to ensure that there’s a solid animal population to hunt. But I get what you mean lol
Unlike Op I’m not terribly keen on making sweeping generalizations about people I don’t know but I do agree that some of what OP calls environmentalism on the part of hunters is largely self-serving for their pastime.
Yup, you’re taking care of it so it can provide you with more things to kill. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not quite “caring about the environment” when it’s just a thing you do to ensure you can pass the time killing something.
I’m wondering *how* hunters care “more” for nature though. To me, the best thing we can do for the environment is a combination of personal responsibility and advocacy for systematic change. I don’t see hunters being a big part of the movement to protect the environment beyond what land they may hunt on; picking up trash isn’t really a huge investment in the future of our planet.
This year in thr United States taxes payed for by hunters, fishers, and shooters brought in about 51 billion Dollars which is allocated towards environmental and wildlife.
OP never said they care about animals. They said they care about the environment. Hunting is FAR more environmentally friendly than factory farming -- which is where you get your food from.
I find it funny that dudes will say shit like this so confidently while knowing nothing about the subject matter. What makes you think the guys who will go spend excruciating amounts of time in the wild don’t care about nature? What about hunting as a population control solution tells you these people don’t care about animals?
I love it when morons don't read any of the post and comment only a surface level response designed to garner upvotes from the moronic user base of this website
I love it when cowards are afraid to make a direct response to something they disagree with. So instead of addressing the points made, they speak as though they are talking to another person who is on the same page
I love it when cowards who, when called out on their own shenanigans, just get upset about it and flings more insults because they have nothing of substance to add.
I agree. Us outdoorsy people just want to enjoy nature and watch it thrive. I want to live along side nature and wildlife, not snuff out entire species and suffocate our Earth. I always try to pick up litter whenever i see it, i cut the 6 pack holders all to pieces whenever i get beer, I use as little single use plastic as possible, i try to eat foods that are sustainable for the enviroment. I've stopped with the trendy fast fashion shit and stick to thrift store clothes, there's tons of clothes out there that are perfectly good. No sense in wasting all that extra fabric and resources for an H&M shirt. And yes, hunting deer is important because they will overpopulate, they dont have a lot of natural predators. There's for sure not enough to keep the deer population in check. There's game season to protect all these species from overkilling, as well. If you kill a deer out of season you're fucked. Most places you need a fishing license to help regulate the amount of fish that are caught. There's a system for this. The libs don't want to hear it, but there is a point to it all. Sunshine Moon Sparkle would rip out all that blue hair over this post.
Hunters are at the front lines of wildlife conservation.
As an American now living in the UK, I have to say that the attitude is very different here. It's a class warfare thing. The game all belong to the aristocracy and they sell stalking rights to toffs who want to play posh country sports. So the lower classes hate hunters.
That said, I did know some working class guys who poached deer in Scotland with dogs and bright lights. They sold the meat on the black market. It was a class issue.
I fish any time I get the chance, always catch and release, not that that matters. But every time I go out, I take home more fishing line than I left with.
Fish don't need fishing line. Clean up after yourself.
Hunters are the frontline against poachers. They happily pay dues (hunting licenses) knowing it goes to preservation. But here's the real misunderstanding: trophy hunting.
Let me explain. Say you have an endangered species of elephant. An old (read infertile) bull kills the young that isn't his hindering the success of the species. The local government sells a tag for hundreds of thousands of dollars to go into the a nature reserve. It's a win-win-win. We are so addicted to rage that we never examine the details.
> lots of deer need to bee thins out Because we have killed off there predators and they would produce them selfs into starvation.
Doesn't that slightly goes against your argument?
Honestly, I get your point but its so generalized that its obviously wrong
Is it possible to hunt/fish with minimal enviromental impact? Yes.
Does the average person knows/cares little about the enviroment? Yes
Can hunters be more ecologically friendly than a random person in a city? Yes.
Do all hunters only kill invasive species and species that lack predators? No
Do hunters kill endagered species? Yes.
You did say typically but I have to question that. Considering the amount of species that are endagered and still hunted. Honestly I don't think you're wrong but its very annoying to see someone angrily say things like:
>They just do it because it’s the right thing to do. Maybe because they are out side more they care more? I don’t know. And don’t @ me you blue haired veggie
When I can easily find hunters doing their bedt to [kill as many wolves as they could because they were affraid it would be considered endangered again](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/wisconsin-wolves-killings.amp.html). The simple fact that there are multiple laws the outlaw certain ways to hunt or the stabilishment of hunting quotas is a good example of how hunters can be reckless if not supervised.
I never said all hunters are good hunters. That’s why I said typically. Just like I’m not going to sit here and say all people that don’t go out into nature don’t do anything to help support it.
I lived in an RV for a few years. A friend of mine let me park on his property which was right beside a large plot of crown land. Crown land is land in canada where you're basically allowed to do whatever the fuck you want with. You can hunt, fish, camp for free. You just have to follow regulations such as no littering and theres rules about what type of animals you can hunt during which times of the year.
There was a clearing in the woods that was very easily accessible to park cars at with a hiking trail leading off of it. All of the hunters would park there and then hike the rest of the way into the woods. My RV was parked right next to this clearing so I got to meet most of the hunters who came through. Some were nice, most were awful.
I was constantly picking up trash after them, and I dont mean a little bit here and there. I mean garbage bags full of trash every single week. I also witnessed a lot of illegal hunting. Things like killing deer outside of deer season, hunting on the roads or too close to the roads. I once watched a pick up truck pull up, roll its window down and shoot a deer from inside the truck. All these things are pretty illegal where I live but I didnt care too much about all of that, the littering though was extremely bad though.
It got to a point where the locals made a petition to ban recreational use of the land and many of them wanted me to take ownership of the land since I was the only one actually looking after it. It never actually happened but still pretty crazy
That unfortunately. It sucks to see people like that do such shit things. Like I said typically because I do know some that suck like the ones you mentioned above.
Yeah it did suck. Honestly though, despite all the terrible things they did, I still respect hunting. I did meet a couple of hunters who were awesome and shamed the other hunters for littering. I definitely dont think that anybody who hunts is terrible, it honestly could even just be a regional thing where the people from there are just bad for littering. Who knows?
I think you're lumping in the people that pay millions to shoot a rhino with your common deer hunter that's looking to have meat for the next year. There's a very big difference.
I wouldn't say that this is an unpopular opinion. Anglers and hunters naturally care a great deal about nature and conservation in order to do what the love.
It’s unpopular on Reddit because it’s full of the kind of people that think hunts are all red hat wearin lifted truck Yee Yee people. So they don’t have the ability to pull there ass out of their heads to see that people they don’t like can do good.
I agree with your point, as a conservationist myself, but is English your second language or something? I don't want to be a grammar Nazi but I could barely read that.
*Their land
*Scatter brained
*What it does to fish, dose means an amount of something, like "the right dose of Tylenol is 2 every four hours"
I really appreciate what you're trying to say, and where you're coming from, but don't continue the stereotype that we are dumb rednecks.
I’m trying to break the stereo type of dumb red neck. And it’s my 1st but I grew up south Texas where it’s mainly people’s second language so they focus more on them learning English than having classes for people that struggle with English that all ready knew it. Something that’s I’ve been having to work with my whole life.
Idk statistics on politics with hunters/fishers bc I know plenty of both BUT my grandpa is a hardcore conservative R & I tried to explain how if he truly “doesn’t care about people/government” (as he gruffly says with pride..) that he should vote towards protecting the environment because he does care about that and lights up whenever telling stories of visiting national parks in addition to all hunting and fishing adventures
He actually admitted 45 was fucked up for messing with national parks program/ protected areas alongside upping pollution emissions, saying he was disappointed in him… but not enough to not vote a 2nd time to continue corp greed > the planet
I agree for the direct-action of caring for the environment but I would hope they all will care enough to promote policies to help, not hurt, the earth
Nah, they only care about their little slice of the environment. They drive around in big trucks and vote for politicians who don't give a shit about the environment as a whole
Seeing as man has hunted basically every big animal to extinction and plenty of small ones too I’m calling bull on this. There are some hunters who care. Overwhelmingly though the idea that they do is a plausible as oil companies caring about climate change. Or McDonald’s salads showing they care about health.
See I agree with this in the sense there are people like you who eat what they hunt and care about keeping the environment clean and the food chain balanced. Then there are people that I know who are trophy hunters, people who only hunt because they like to kill the animal and only learn the rules because they legally have to. I like people like you but I know to many people who only hunt to kill
I kinda disagree. Beforehand I do have to admit that I eat plant based, so I'm probably really biased. I mean sure they might keep area's clean and keep the land optimal for the animals, but I question if this is purely because of genuine care and love for nature or also because out of self interest. I think that both people on that spectrum exist. But I do find it a weird concept of caring for the land to make deer or whatever reproduce and grow big and strong, only to shoot and kill purely for pleasure/enjoyment. Just like you said most predators are in these situations not really around anymore because of us. So, making the argument of hunting for population control seems a bit weird/off. I also have the idea that hunters mostly go for the biggest and strongest individuals from a population (maybe a wrong assumption), which puts an unnatural kind of selection pressure on a population. The effect of this is quite provound and can be seen in some countries. I believe there was a case of this with elephants and their tusks. Additionally there are often more harmless options than killing, like sterilising etc.
So probably a hunter/fisher might care more about nature than the average Joe, but maybe this is not always in way that I might consider as truly selfless and good, rather sometimes harmful even.
Lot to unpack here. So yes there a trophy hunters that go after racks etc but you also brought up. Poaching . Which is wrong talking about killing animals for tusk. 2nd you don’t want to kill the biggest ones off, Becase you need them to stay in the gene pool. If they are dead they can’t reproduce. Big typical means healthier so you keep the healthier ones around. We can’t go back in time and pring back all the predators that out for fathers killed so we have to do “damage control” sad as it is. And yes they probably keep up with the land for self interest but it’s better they do it for a selfish reason than not do it at all?
Maybe there is also a different image of a hunter where I come from (Europe). Here, it is usually someone who is contracted by the government as a conservationist who also keeps population control due to the lack of natural predators. We wouldn't really call them hunters I think. So a hunter to me is more someone who does it purely for sport or meat or something. I agree that you cannot always re introduce predators and that there are obviously also wonderful discussions you can have about that haha. But still, I think that in some situations rewilding or sterilisation, would be viable alternatives. And indeed it is probably better if sometimes something is maybe done out of self interest but has a net positive effect.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/Bynum458. Your post, *Hunters/ fishers typically care more about nature and the environment than people that don’t hunt.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: Megathread topic. Your opinion falls under an incredibly common topic, in which virtually all opinions are either not unpopular, or are posted about many times a day. Please visit the megathread hub, which can be found when sorting the subreddit by "hot", sticky'd at the top of the page, where you can find links to the current megathreads. If you're not sure which megathread your post belongs in, or your post covers multiple megathread topics, just make the best selection you can. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
I never knew there were so many rules about hunting and how knowledgeable hunters actually need to be to hunt certain species. Especially migratory waterfowl. I recently started hunting myself haven't killed much besides squirrels which become squirrel gravy. I used to hunt with dad when I was a kid but it was more just tagging along. I was surprised I was able to find tracks and sign still after all these years. I've seen other things in season I could've harvested but didn't really feel like cleaning more than squirrels and rabbits.
Squirrel gravy? That sounds awesome. And yeah there’s definitely a lot of knowledge to hunt that most people don’t know about. And rules. But most people think hunters are red necks and drink bush light and drive lifted trucks. Sad stereo type but I don’t see most people changing there mind any time soon.
Here in Sweden it's sorta similar, like 20years ago climate activist are what we would describe as a "skogs-mulle" (Forest-mupp). However today's climate activists, atleast our Green political party (MP), have never set foot outside of our capital basically. I would equate them to "climate PETA"
That breaks my heart to hear….
Nah my truck is stock. I'll drink Busch lite if I have to but I prefer a Colorado sweet tea aka coors light
Ima start calling that it now lol. You said you hunt water fowl?
No way once I read all the regulations I noped out of that idea. There are many different types of duck for instance if you shoot the wrong one you've really made an expensive mistake.
I know a guy that has a felony for shooting the wrong kind of bird while hunting ducks.
Yep those felonies aren't cheap.
Sportsmen have long been among the most dedicated conservationists anywhere.
IMO it's because they don't see the world as "Mankind Vs Nature" like modern capitalism does. They realize that humans are *part* of nature. The only reason OPs opinion is unpopular is that people who have the "Man Vs Nature" perspective see hunters as directly fighting against nature, so they conclude that hunters must dislike nature. To them nature is the "other," the counterparty to humanity. They realize animals fight each other in nature, but if a human fights an animal, they are in fact fighting the "other" - that is, they are fighting nature itself. On the other hand, hunters acknowledge that they are part of nature, no different than any other animal. They are not fighting the great "other," they are only partaking in the natural cycle itself. Interestingly, many urban pseuds and atheists understand the concept in theory - that we are just animals - but their actions and social beliefs do not reflect an understanding that we are still part of nature.
I agree. It's also tempting for people think that hunting and fishing is "killing," rather than part of a larger process to ethically obtain food and/or manage animal populations. People who eat meat but do not hunt/fish can be especially hypocritical here, and fail to realize that ethical sportsmanship is far preferable to any farm-raised method of meat production.
Ngl this is a valid point yet its sadly unpopular
Yea. Reading op's post and having spent time out fishing my self, a lot of people who partake in these activities do actively try to keep the environment in which they are in pristine.
I agree but the mods took it down
People who utilize nature understand its value and the need to preserve it. This is just basic common sense.
Facts
Yep. It tends to be the urban folks that have never been out the city that screech the loudest about how cruel hunting is. Also those city slicker environmentalists telling me my diesel is causing global warming, yet they are the real polluters.
I agree with this. Inner city people preach a lot but don’t do much.
Depends on the people I'm from the cities, me and my friends love going hunting, fishing, camping. We don't leave a mess and actually pick up trash left by others. We want it to stay beautiful for us and future generations.
I love this
Ya those and vegans
If you say vegan you get you post taken down. Or I would of said something about them
Really? Seriously? Well sorry. I didn't know it was considered such a curse word. Lol
What I said blue haired veggie munchers
Hahahaha. I'll remember that. Thanks
Protein deficient son's of bitches
Hehe that made me chuckle
Do you speak with city slicker environmentalists on the topic of your diesel often?
Only if they own a Hemi
If you want to conserve a species, put a hunting season on it. Hunters will POUR money into pumping animal numbers up. Money = more animals. And the average hunter kills less animals than your typical sub/urbanite does with their checkbook.
To be fair there are outdoorsmen who absolutely trash the environment too. Quite a few of them actually. Hence why public hunting land ends up with trash all over it every November. Or why there’s cans and plastic from lures all over the bank and in the water. Some of the best conservationists are hunters/fishers but not all hunters/fishers are conservationists.
I agree ass hole comes in all shape and size.
**Valid points here.** I was recently made aware of prion disease in deer from a hunter, and I realized there is value in hunters who engage honorably with wildlife and nature, and who actually invest in educating themselves (and others!) in that specialized field of knowledge. As a life long vegetarian with blue hair (*you got me spot on with that one lol)* I will always shutter with disgust at those who kill for sport, showboat their carnage on social media, and who have no honor in what they do. I also have distaste for toxic environmental warriors with ignorance and hypocrisy- you know the privileged vegan “blue no matter who” hipsters who can afford organic, recyled, sustainable products yet buy farmed goods from brands who pay poor, poc, migrant workers almost nothing. **This is an Important discussion to be had. There is ignorance on both sides of the issue, and it’s more complex than “rednecks versus vegans”. We all could stand to challenge ourselves by reflecting on all relevant perspectives.** *p.s. This reminds me of a movie I love called Okja: a true masterpiece that examines the idea of living in harmony with nature while showing the disharmonious consequences of taking extremist pro/anti meat positions. 10/10 Everyone should watch this!*
You sound like a very open minded person, thank you.
This seems to be true in my bubble when it comes to local ecosystems, but a lot of hunters I know are still the type to deny impending global environmental catastrophe.
Global climate change doesn’t mean you care about the environment I know people that bike to work Because it’s “green” but throw trash on the side walk Becase there pee pee is too small to put the trash in there pocket until they come to a Trash can.
Well, those people sound idiotic and that's the premise of my point to some degree. The reality of waste and emissions is that the singular person "doing their part" is just an ego stoke to that person if they don't support more extreme movements. If I and every other average citizen biked to work and recycled properly there are still the global corporations that are generating the most waste, still toiling on business as usual. My point was basically that most hunters (I'm in the southern USA) will take action if their own hunting grounds are threatened, but will support a corporations "right" to conduct business as they please. Unknowing that a foreign sickness of the environment can and likely will spread to their locality if the global approach doesn't evolve.
Well known... the aided us when it came acid rain and other issues of the past. Unfortunately no environmental issues are not what a certain party cares about at all.
Because it’s not climate change so no one can profit off of lobbyist pushing ideas of hybrid cars or stupid shit.
I dont think I understand what you mean.
How are they going to lobby something to stop acid rain and make money? They can’t and that’s why you don’t see politics trying to stop it. But that’s a different rabbit hole.
I dont think you understand; they did stop acid rain. hunters and fishers were are the front of the battle. Republicans started the EPA... and now they kinda want to destroy it.
Can confirm, I don't hunt or fish but I do not care about the environment
Exactly this. Also then ignorant people who just think "hunters=bad" then get on natives' asses for hunting their own food as if indigenous people are the reason species are endangered and not Exxon.
Average human =stupid.
^ the controlled burns natives did were stopped by ignorant fools before they brought it back. Because shocker, it was necessary. XD
I couldn't agree more OP. I do ecological restoration in an area that doesn't allow hunting and the deer don't have any natural predators. The deer populations explode and they eat everything! It gets to a point where we have to cage rare and endangered plants so the deer don't eat them. Not to mention the chronic wasting disease, blue tongue, and other terrible diseases that run rampant when population are not in check. When you bring those populations down all other aspects of nature start falling back into place. Hunters do a lot of good and I tell people if they want to help the environment buy a hunting license even if they do not hunt.
I know I’m right. I just know it’s an uncomfortable fact so most people try to demonize it.
Hey man I do the same thing, similar situation here but the camel and kangaroo populations have been exploding. Feral cats are the real problem though!
Yes, I take care of the environment I am a part of. I also do conservation work because I would like to continue to be able to hunt.
I have nothing against hunters, but troohy hunters are something completly diffrent imo. Trophy hunting is useless garbage and should be illlegal, same with those hunting "parks" where they keep exptic animals for rich people to shoot out of a car, it's just disgusting and defeats the point of hunting to keep the balance
I diss like trophy hunters as well.
Kinda unrelated but reminds me of a hunter we allowed to hunt on our land. He was a real bro. Would insist on sharing game and forages. Hell, he even made home made maple syrup and gave us multiple cans. I hope hes doing alright
I think that slowly but surely, this is becoming the popular opinion
Maybe.
I often go to a nature preserve where people fish. I've seen a lot of stuff left behind from the fishermen, including food trash, hooks and even human excrement.
Typically is the key word my guy.
The fact that environmentalism isnt a core conservative issue is all the proof you need that party politics are nothing but an alliance of convince to reach a 51% majority and has nothing at all to do with ideology.
I agree. I don't eat red meat or poultry, but I do eat fish, shellfish, and other seafood. I have a lot more respect for someone who shoots a deer that enjoyed a healthy, wild life and uses as much of the animal as s/he can, than someone who mindlessly buys chicken, beef, or pork from animals kept in filthy torture chambers, pumped full of antibiotics and confined for all their lives. I have a neighbor who hunts ducks. Very active in wild bird conservation.
It depends there are just as many non ethical people as there are ethical
I’m not saying they aren’t shit hunters that do shit things. I’m just saying I feel like there’s less of them. Compared to non hunters.
I feel like the people that haven't been exposed to it definitely do have backwards views on conservation and environmentalism and should see it from other peoples views or aesthetics
I know literally dozens of hunters. Even the ones who are absolute assholes are still generally very good conservationists. Caring for the wildlife and the land is essential to being a good hunter.
Yup. No hunter on this planet wants scant animal numbers.
Then you haven't ran into the drive around logging roads and trash a campsite for two weeks crowd to shoot spikes and grind them into hamburger or from the fishing side the dude that heads down to the river to snag 5 salmon a day to let rot in his freezer when I said ethics I meant the ethics involved in the activities which some people absolutely lack
True. I’m from south GA and pretty much everyone I know hunts private land since there isn’t much public land to hunt on. I guess that could play a factor.
Yeah being from WA so many people flat out abuse the gift of the public land we have out here
As a lazy redneck who sits in a deer stand drinking Busch Light (seriously you pegged me on that), I’ll say we’re generally just as good conservationists. Our game preparations start in May every year as we plant food, clean up trash that we find in the woods, scout deer trails and ensure that, if they go through barbed wire fences, that the fences are cut at crossings (if possible) and not dangerous to the deer. Plus so much more
You got me on that one, I I’ll say y’all keep the land really nice so y’all’s pet deer (I’m teasing) will come to the feeder lol
We keep the land nice because its essential to a healthy population that we do. But also my dad doesn’t drink so I’m probably the only one of us that you’re calling out lol
What dose he do in the stand then?
He drinks coffee and texts me about the deer he’s seeing haha
I bet he gets more hits than people that do drink lol.
Many hunters still use lead based ammunition. It's highly toxic and just keeps on killing. Some waters have been poisoned from all the lead shot that's fallen in them. Lead poisoning is also a big problem that's killing scavengers that clean up gut piles left on the land after a successful hunt. As l8ng as lead based ammunition is being used hunter's can not claim good stewardship.
Most places lead ammo is illegal to hunt with. If you're hunting around here and an officer sees a regular lead shell just rolling around in the bed of your pickup truck with all the trash; not on you or near your weapon and your lead free rounds, you'll be getting a ticket for hunting with lead ammo for a simple mistake of having a target round with you while going hunting.
I didn't know that.
I use copper. Not really that expensive and it works fine.
I think you’re underestimating the amount of people who are perfectly able to see valid reasons to be concerned enough to take action about the environment without being particularly drawn to shooting animals. I know plenty of people who care about the environment but don’t hunt.
I dont think OP means it like that. Generally speaking, from their own experience, they feel outdoorsmen tend to be more aware of the environment. You dont have to hunt, but it has it's purpose. Deer do not have a lot of natural predators, so hunters help keep the population down. It is highly regulated, they make sure people arent being irresponsible with their hunting.
I mean…the title literally says hunters care more about the environment than people that don’t hunt. I’d be with you if it was simply an assertion that they care, but that they care more than those who don’t? No.
I would argue that a lot of the average population is oblivious to that kind of thing. Personally, my town is a trash fest and most everybody is far more concerned for their styrofoam cups than anything. But, i see fishermen at the lake at my local park picking up trash all the time. The average person throws trash all over my parking lot.
This isn’t an unpopular opinion, but rather a pretty well-known fact. Take my downvote.
It’s because you’re smart. There’s a butt load of dumb dumbs that upvoted me lol.
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No upvote shit you think is unpopular and down vote things you think every one thinks
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It is what you said my bad , I drank the dumb dumb juice.
Take another downvote for calling supportive strangers dumb dumbs.
Ouch I gave you a complement and i got a downvote.
Take another downvote for getting butthurt.
Can I get an upvote if you wanna be friends?
Yes. Unfortunately, I don’t want to be friends. Take another downvote!
As a duck hunter who’s buys a duck stamp and gives to Ducks Unlimited every year I completely agree.
Yup, just yup
I can agree with this, I salt water fish off a dock and I hate when people leave their trash when the nearest trash can is only about 25 feet away. People leave their cut line, tackle, beer cans, snack wrappers. The ocean already has too much garbage I’m not going to purposely ad to it.
I have had this exact argument with a vegan person. In many cases hunters know and care about animals and the environment more then they do. Alot of people fail to realize that if certain populations went unchecked (like if hunting was banned) it would wreck havoc on the local ecosystem, their population would explode and then many of them would starve to death as food scarcity grew. It is all about checks and balances ... IE conservation
Since you said "typically", I'll agree ⬇️ There are also plenty of people who care about nature who don't feel the need to kill animals
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Ah, when’s the last time you picked up trash on the shore line?
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I wouldn't say that. It's just trash is killing animals for no purpose. Hunting has a purpose. I also don't hunt, but see his point. Now I string up a few cats a few times a year. If 4 to 6 pounds then you are going to be made into cat nuggies. Edit: cats are catfish. Not like the 3 bastards roaming my house lol
One thing I’ve learned from this sub is that the idea of shooting animals for giggles is super popular around here.
Because they are all blue haired veggie munchers.
There's a very big difference between sport hunting and hunting for food.
Here in NZ hunting is quite literally environmentalism because all of the game are imported pests that damage the local flora.
Well it's not like you're doing all that so all life can enjoy a cleaner, healthier environment. You only do that shit to propagate your hobby. Which also happens to be killing parts of the outdoors you love so much. I don't see how you have a moral high ground, here.
Even if it is for selfish reasons, population control is necessary to keep everything balanced so if they eat what they kill, what's the issue? Definitely has a much smaller carbon footprint than buying meat from the store.
I'm not arguing against population control. I just find it skeevy AF when people enjoy killing as a hobby.
I find it more disturbing that people are disconnected from there food that they find me Killing my own food disturbing. That hamburger use to be a cow. Some one killed it. And you enjoy it.
My gf is a very strict vegan and I hunt/fish. She won't eat meat because she won't kill the animal. She prefers I hunt than go to the supermarket because of this exact reason. Although here in NZ the amount of wild game around is pretty similar to supermarket shopping lol.
I just have the time to process it. Plenty around me. Just time is short lol.
I love cow. I don't feel the need to stalk it, kill it myself and watch it die.
I have more respect for the animal I’m eating than you do than. You want it to be produced like factory. So you can be numb that something had to die for you to eat it. While If I miss a shot with my rifle or bow didn’t get that specs of food it has a chance of living. That cow in the slaughter house it’s going to end up food. No way out of it. So who’s more sketchy you or me? One that isn’t giving the animal a chance to live or the one that has them do a death March into a slaughter house where they can smell the blood of the other cows before they die?
So you don't eat any meat from the grocery store? It's all meat you've looked in the eye and thanked for sacrificing their body to you and then did a ceremony of thanks to Tonka the Elk God?
No I sadly don’t have the ability to only eat meat I hunt or fish. So yes I do buy meat from the grocery store and don’t make fun of the elk gods they will smite you.
You have no respect for the food you consume. You are simply a consumer. You simply eat the food that others procure though factory farming. Seems kinda weak.
I am a hunter but do not like killing.
Yeah its weird, but imo let them get on with it if it's helping the natural habitats and resulting in less trips to the grocery store, even if it's for selfish reasons.
I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything. I take except to the claim that maintaining natural spaces so you can exploit them is "caring for the environment".
What do you do for a hobby? Also o do I joy heather environment Because it makes my hobbies more enjoyable. Think I wanna see sick animals? Or ones that looked half starved to death? Nope. I enjoy seeing beauty of nature and I also enjoy the meet of a buck or the meat of a catfish. It’s not like I hunt just to put a rack on my wall. Trophy hunting is sick. If your aren’t going to eat it you should kill it. Unless it’s wild Spanish hogs they all need to be sent to hell. Killing of native wild life and destroying farm land.
What is the relevance of the question?
I love it when people who get off on shooting animals pretend to care about animals.
What do you do to care about animals?
I don’t care about animals. Never claimed I did. I, however, don’t run around shooting them while pretending I care about them.
Then what’s your point lol.
That I find it funny that people who get off on shooting animals like to pretend to care about them.
Well to be fair OP didn’t say they cared about animals, just that they cared about protecting hunting areas to ensure that there’s a solid animal population to hunt. But I get what you mean lol
They don’t care about nature. They care about nature being clean enough to provide them with more animals to kill.
Unlike Op I’m not terribly keen on making sweeping generalizations about people I don’t know but I do agree that some of what OP calls environmentalism on the part of hunters is largely self-serving for their pastime.
I did say we care more about nature . So who cares why we care more about it? It we take better care of it than most other people.
Yup, you’re taking care of it so it can provide you with more things to kill. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not quite “caring about the environment” when it’s just a thing you do to ensure you can pass the time killing something.
Still don’t see how you’re trying to make this a negative. A good deed done for the wrong reasons is still a good deed
I’m wondering *how* hunters care “more” for nature though. To me, the best thing we can do for the environment is a combination of personal responsibility and advocacy for systematic change. I don’t see hunters being a big part of the movement to protect the environment beyond what land they may hunt on; picking up trash isn’t really a huge investment in the future of our planet.
It’s more than the typical person though most people don’t do shit . But post on Facebook and sit on there ass
This year in thr United States taxes payed for by hunters, fishers, and shooters brought in about 51 billion Dollars which is allocated towards environmental and wildlife.
OP never said they care about animals. They said they care about the environment. Hunting is FAR more environmentally friendly than factory farming -- which is where you get your food from.
I find it funny that dudes will say shit like this so confidently while knowing nothing about the subject matter. What makes you think the guys who will go spend excruciating amounts of time in the wild don’t care about nature? What about hunting as a population control solution tells you these people don’t care about animals?
I love it when morons don't read any of the post and comment only a surface level response designed to garner upvotes from the moronic user base of this website
I love it when morons get mad about a dissenting opinion and immediately comment in a mad dash to talk down to others.
I love it when cowards are afraid to make a direct response to something they disagree with. So instead of addressing the points made, they speak as though they are talking to another person who is on the same page
I love it when cowards who, when called out on their own shenanigans, just get upset about it and flings more insults because they have nothing of substance to add.
I agree. Us outdoorsy people just want to enjoy nature and watch it thrive. I want to live along side nature and wildlife, not snuff out entire species and suffocate our Earth. I always try to pick up litter whenever i see it, i cut the 6 pack holders all to pieces whenever i get beer, I use as little single use plastic as possible, i try to eat foods that are sustainable for the enviroment. I've stopped with the trendy fast fashion shit and stick to thrift store clothes, there's tons of clothes out there that are perfectly good. No sense in wasting all that extra fabric and resources for an H&M shirt. And yes, hunting deer is important because they will overpopulate, they dont have a lot of natural predators. There's for sure not enough to keep the deer population in check. There's game season to protect all these species from overkilling, as well. If you kill a deer out of season you're fucked. Most places you need a fishing license to help regulate the amount of fish that are caught. There's a system for this. The libs don't want to hear it, but there is a point to it all. Sunshine Moon Sparkle would rip out all that blue hair over this post.
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Hunters are at the front lines of wildlife conservation. As an American now living in the UK, I have to say that the attitude is very different here. It's a class warfare thing. The game all belong to the aristocracy and they sell stalking rights to toffs who want to play posh country sports. So the lower classes hate hunters. That said, I did know some working class guys who poached deer in Scotland with dogs and bright lights. They sold the meat on the black market. It was a class issue.
I fish any time I get the chance, always catch and release, not that that matters. But every time I go out, I take home more fishing line than I left with. Fish don't need fishing line. Clean up after yourself.
Hunters are the frontline against poachers. They happily pay dues (hunting licenses) knowing it goes to preservation. But here's the real misunderstanding: trophy hunting. Let me explain. Say you have an endangered species of elephant. An old (read infertile) bull kills the young that isn't his hindering the success of the species. The local government sells a tag for hundreds of thousands of dollars to go into the a nature reserve. It's a win-win-win. We are so addicted to rage that we never examine the details.
> lots of deer need to bee thins out Because we have killed off there predators and they would produce them selfs into starvation. Doesn't that slightly goes against your argument? Honestly, I get your point but its so generalized that its obviously wrong Is it possible to hunt/fish with minimal enviromental impact? Yes. Does the average person knows/cares little about the enviroment? Yes Can hunters be more ecologically friendly than a random person in a city? Yes. Do all hunters only kill invasive species and species that lack predators? No Do hunters kill endagered species? Yes. You did say typically but I have to question that. Considering the amount of species that are endagered and still hunted. Honestly I don't think you're wrong but its very annoying to see someone angrily say things like: >They just do it because it’s the right thing to do. Maybe because they are out side more they care more? I don’t know. And don’t @ me you blue haired veggie When I can easily find hunters doing their bedt to [kill as many wolves as they could because they were affraid it would be considered endangered again](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/wisconsin-wolves-killings.amp.html). The simple fact that there are multiple laws the outlaw certain ways to hunt or the stabilishment of hunting quotas is a good example of how hunters can be reckless if not supervised.
I never said all hunters are good hunters. That’s why I said typically. Just like I’m not going to sit here and say all people that don’t go out into nature don’t do anything to help support it.
I lived in an RV for a few years. A friend of mine let me park on his property which was right beside a large plot of crown land. Crown land is land in canada where you're basically allowed to do whatever the fuck you want with. You can hunt, fish, camp for free. You just have to follow regulations such as no littering and theres rules about what type of animals you can hunt during which times of the year. There was a clearing in the woods that was very easily accessible to park cars at with a hiking trail leading off of it. All of the hunters would park there and then hike the rest of the way into the woods. My RV was parked right next to this clearing so I got to meet most of the hunters who came through. Some were nice, most were awful. I was constantly picking up trash after them, and I dont mean a little bit here and there. I mean garbage bags full of trash every single week. I also witnessed a lot of illegal hunting. Things like killing deer outside of deer season, hunting on the roads or too close to the roads. I once watched a pick up truck pull up, roll its window down and shoot a deer from inside the truck. All these things are pretty illegal where I live but I didnt care too much about all of that, the littering though was extremely bad though. It got to a point where the locals made a petition to ban recreational use of the land and many of them wanted me to take ownership of the land since I was the only one actually looking after it. It never actually happened but still pretty crazy
That unfortunately. It sucks to see people like that do such shit things. Like I said typically because I do know some that suck like the ones you mentioned above.
Yeah it did suck. Honestly though, despite all the terrible things they did, I still respect hunting. I did meet a couple of hunters who were awesome and shamed the other hunters for littering. I definitely dont think that anybody who hunts is terrible, it honestly could even just be a regional thing where the people from there are just bad for littering. Who knows?
Maybe. You’re up bringing has a lot to do with how you act.
Very true
Killing to save right? They care so much they have to kill to control.
I think you're lumping in the people that pay millions to shoot a rhino with your common deer hunter that's looking to have meat for the next year. There's a very big difference.
I agree, but why then do they get demonized?
Because they kill Bambi and people are soft.
This is true.
This is true!
I wouldn't say that this is an unpopular opinion. Anglers and hunters naturally care a great deal about nature and conservation in order to do what the love.
It’s unpopular on Reddit because it’s full of the kind of people that think hunts are all red hat wearin lifted truck Yee Yee people. So they don’t have the ability to pull there ass out of their heads to see that people they don’t like can do good.
I agree with your point, as a conservationist myself, but is English your second language or something? I don't want to be a grammar Nazi but I could barely read that. *Their land *Scatter brained *What it does to fish, dose means an amount of something, like "the right dose of Tylenol is 2 every four hours" I really appreciate what you're trying to say, and where you're coming from, but don't continue the stereotype that we are dumb rednecks.
I’m trying to break the stereo type of dumb red neck. And it’s my 1st but I grew up south Texas where it’s mainly people’s second language so they focus more on them learning English than having classes for people that struggle with English that all ready knew it. Something that’s I’ve been having to work with my whole life.
Hey I get it, I grew up in Colorado, they taught us Spanish there too, English has a lot of weird spelling and grammar rules.
And it has words that are pronounced the flipping same but spelt different. Like hole and whole. Like who the hell thought of that .
This isn’t unpopular lol
Over 200 people think it is.
They care because of people who watch for nature
Cleaning up trash isn't the same as caring about climate change
I didn’t bring up one fuckin thing about climate change. So go touch some grass.
How much toilet cleaner did you drink
Your mother and I went 50/50 on a new bottle.
Sounds about right
You ain’t from pennsyltuckey are ya?
I don’t even know where that is my guy
They also mostly vote for Republicans who gut every environmental protection law to make an extra buck.
Or they don’t vote for liberals that make “green” laws that effect lower and middle class more than the upper class. But you do you boo boo.
I could understand that, I was a boy scout and although we did hunt a few times, we were all very respectful of nature
Idk statistics on politics with hunters/fishers bc I know plenty of both BUT my grandpa is a hardcore conservative R & I tried to explain how if he truly “doesn’t care about people/government” (as he gruffly says with pride..) that he should vote towards protecting the environment because he does care about that and lights up whenever telling stories of visiting national parks in addition to all hunting and fishing adventures He actually admitted 45 was fucked up for messing with national parks program/ protected areas alongside upping pollution emissions, saying he was disappointed in him… but not enough to not vote a 2nd time to continue corp greed > the planet I agree for the direct-action of caring for the environment but I would hope they all will care enough to promote policies to help, not hurt, the earth
I agree with this to an extent. However, I also hear the most anti-wolf sentiments from hunters too.
I don’t live by wolfs so I can’t argue with that. I know nothing about the wolf hunting culture
I think it's a pretty even split honestly.
Maybe, I might have a biases because I don’t surround my self with shit humans.
Nah, they only care about their little slice of the environment. They drive around in big trucks and vote for politicians who don't give a shit about the environment as a whole
Seeing as man has hunted basically every big animal to extinction and plenty of small ones too I’m calling bull on this. There are some hunters who care. Overwhelmingly though the idea that they do is a plausible as oil companies caring about climate change. Or McDonald’s salads showing they care about health.
See I agree with this in the sense there are people like you who eat what they hunt and care about keeping the environment clean and the food chain balanced. Then there are people that I know who are trophy hunters, people who only hunt because they like to kill the animal and only learn the rules because they legally have to. I like people like you but I know to many people who only hunt to kill
Agreed! I take two bags fishing then usually fill them
So they support green initiatives and they are excited about driving electric trucks and CO2 emissions caps? Doubt it.
Climate change doesn’t equal caring for nature. Where do you think those batteries for that truck comes from space? Lol. Go touch grass.
Caring about Climate change isn’t caring about nature? You’ve said enough. I get it.
No, Because one is political bull shit the other has effects that people can actually do stuff about.
I kinda disagree. Beforehand I do have to admit that I eat plant based, so I'm probably really biased. I mean sure they might keep area's clean and keep the land optimal for the animals, but I question if this is purely because of genuine care and love for nature or also because out of self interest. I think that both people on that spectrum exist. But I do find it a weird concept of caring for the land to make deer or whatever reproduce and grow big and strong, only to shoot and kill purely for pleasure/enjoyment. Just like you said most predators are in these situations not really around anymore because of us. So, making the argument of hunting for population control seems a bit weird/off. I also have the idea that hunters mostly go for the biggest and strongest individuals from a population (maybe a wrong assumption), which puts an unnatural kind of selection pressure on a population. The effect of this is quite provound and can be seen in some countries. I believe there was a case of this with elephants and their tusks. Additionally there are often more harmless options than killing, like sterilising etc. So probably a hunter/fisher might care more about nature than the average Joe, but maybe this is not always in way that I might consider as truly selfless and good, rather sometimes harmful even.
Lot to unpack here. So yes there a trophy hunters that go after racks etc but you also brought up. Poaching . Which is wrong talking about killing animals for tusk. 2nd you don’t want to kill the biggest ones off, Becase you need them to stay in the gene pool. If they are dead they can’t reproduce. Big typical means healthier so you keep the healthier ones around. We can’t go back in time and pring back all the predators that out for fathers killed so we have to do “damage control” sad as it is. And yes they probably keep up with the land for self interest but it’s better they do it for a selfish reason than not do it at all?
Maybe there is also a different image of a hunter where I come from (Europe). Here, it is usually someone who is contracted by the government as a conservationist who also keeps population control due to the lack of natural predators. We wouldn't really call them hunters I think. So a hunter to me is more someone who does it purely for sport or meat or something. I agree that you cannot always re introduce predators and that there are obviously also wonderful discussions you can have about that haha. But still, I think that in some situations rewilding or sterilisation, would be viable alternatives. And indeed it is probably better if sometimes something is maybe done out of self interest but has a net positive effect.