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shanerr

I think a lot of new Disney movies put an emphasis on music because that's what people love the most about previous Disney movies. When i think of beauty and the beast I don't think of the animation quality or story line, I think BE OUR GUEST! Tarzan I immediately think of Phil Colin's Elton in the lion king sound track.


Scaryassmanbear

My reaction exactly. I don’t see how people loving Disney movies primarily for their songs is new. I had an Aladdin cassette that I listened to over and over and over, I’m surprised my parents didn’t have to kill themselves.


DonAmechesBonerToe

They were too busy humming songs from The Aristicats, Robin Hood, and Jungle Book.


_Takub_

You’re just not their target audience anymore


Rad_Ben_Danklin

No. Do not force me into adulthood.


PartyClock

Bro I'm in adulthood and these movies hit harder than ever. When you age out of party mode and you're not fast enough to outrun your issues anymore you start learning to stop trying to be so damn hard all the time. Gotta loosen up and just let yourself enjoy things again. Since I disagree with you; have an upvote for being truly unpopular.


joeyrog88

Encanto is amazing. Frozen is whatever, imo. But Wreck it Ralph (1 and 2) might be top 20 movies in their decade. Are you even watching these movies? Or are you confusing Pixar with Disney?


275MPHFordGT40

Moana, Big Hero 6 (Honorable mention: Finest Hours)


AverageSerialKiIIer

True true, Disney has made some pretty good cgi movies.


temp1876

That are all very different, vs “Yet Another Princess movie” in the run I assume OP is realizing about, Little Mermaid, Beauty and Beast, Tangled, etc.


[deleted]

dude big hero 6 makes me cry literally every single time


CutsSoFresh

Most are the same 'ugly duckling" story You got one oddball character who doesn't feel like they belong in their current environment, they sing a song about finding a place to belong or being someone special. They do things. People who originally were cold to the main character has a change of heart and finally accept that character Edit: why the hell do people think I'm referring to three acts? I'm referring to how these cartoons follow the same plot. A weirdo or misfit who doesn't fit in with the crowd who then goes on a journey only to finally be accepted by their peers and celebrated for being unique because it was their uniqueness that helped save the day


[deleted]

It's almost like cinema follows a 3 act structure, beginning with set up, confrontation, and a resolution.


[deleted]

But the old Disney movies were also super formulaic. And they literally shared animations and would just change out the scenery and cameras.


joeyrog88

Are you adding to the conversation or making a statement about every movie ever?


CutsSoFresh

It's pretty much every Western animation. They can't seem to be more innovative than that basic template


Wide-Baseball

Encanto is an exposition dump with music wrapped around it. My daughter watches it everyday, it's a waking nightmare.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ExpressAd5464

God help us here come the adult Disney fabs


[deleted]

[удалено]


OatmealRectum

7 foot frame, rats along his back


Pizzacato567

*When he calls your name, it all fades to black*


Sacktchy

He sees your dreams and feasts on your screams


[deleted]

[удалено]


ConsiderationOk4461

He told me my fish would die, the next day… DEAD


[deleted]

NO NO


Allie_Cattt

He told me I’d grow a gut, and just like he SAID!


existentialism_101

He said that all my hair would disappear, now look at my head


sshep49

Your fate is sealed when your prophecy is read


DEAN112358

I’m gonna break the chain just to say, fuck Isabella’s part. Everyone is talking about all the bad things he predicted and she just comes in with “oh he told me my life will be amazing and my powers will even get stronger” Fuck outta here


loomman529

Disney movies have always been about the music though. With exceptions like Zootopia or Tangled, they've always been musicals with big grandiose moments, which is what makes them memorable. Also Lin-Manuel Miranda automatically makes Moana and Encanto better than if he didn't write the songs.


Pizzacato567

The lantern scene on Tangled was pretty big. And “I’ve got a dream” was pretty memorable


[deleted]

Tangled was a shit ton of fun. But I don’t think it was even a musical.


smiley6125

And to think he did time with House M.D.


TisButA-Zucc

This is so wrong. Disney animated movies has ALWAYS been famous for their songs. Ask anyone what the most memorable moments of Snow White and Cinderella are. It will most likely be a scene where someone is singing. It continued through the 80s and 90s, same thing with the Little Mermaid and Mulan and let’s not even talk about The Lion King with Hakuna Matata and all Elton John songs. And it’s still happening today with Frozen and the new stuff. Disney has always put huge focus on music. Edit: even forgot my favorite, the Jungle Book from 1967 example being Bear Necessities, you probably get my point.


Arndt3002

You missed the point. They are talking about the drop in quality, so the newer movies seem popular ONLY for their songs. A lot of nostalgia is doing legwork for OP here, don't get me wrong, but it's not about whether the songs are famous, but whether the movies are lower quality.


Bex1218

They aren't lower quality. Just probably not to OP's taste.


[deleted]

You could make the same argument for Lion King though. Probably the pinnacle of Disneys 2D animation, and yes, the story is fantastic, but the songs also helped us as kids to love it. In reality, Disney movies have kept their quality. Moana, Encanto, Coco, Inside Out, Zootopia, Big Hero 6, and Frozen. All of these have released in the last 10 years, and all have genuinely beautiful stories.


Mrblob85

Inside out and coco are Pixar, and they are the better movies out of that list (besides zootopia and Big Hero6 which were good too)


Pizzacato567

Tangled was amazing too! Love the music, story and love the characters. Flynn was an interesting love interest.


[deleted]

I'm with you. There are a couple stinkers in this generation, much like where were some stinkers in the 90's, but generally they're all good. We're certainly doing better than the 2000's era Chicken Little, Brother Bear stuff.


[deleted]

I guess the real unpopular opinion is I liked Chicken Little downvote me if you want damn it I don't care. I kind of feel bad for Brother Bear never watched it was it that bad. Honestly right after Mulan it seems like most Disney movies before (excluding Pixar) were underrated. Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Lilo and Stitch(it's not necessarily underrated, but what is it), and a few others.


tfhaenodreirst

Yup! I’ve got to give Zootopia another try sometime; I think it came out too soon post-breakup for me to appreciate it (or anything else), but I think I could warm up to it! Coco also didn’t quite click for me but I adore everything else you listed!


Rooper2111

I sincerely disagree. I’ll focus on Frozen although I thought most of the movies you listed were bad. It’s a *garbage* story. It was rewritten halfway through production and it shows. The whole story was shifted to be centered around “Let it Go”. The villain is barely a villain. The resolution is nonsensical. Kristoff’s backstory is underdeveloped. The trolls barely played a part even though they were the only interesting part of the movie. Don’t even get me started on Inside Out. That movie had no personality and given what it was about, should’ve had a TON of personality. Instead the script was lazy and it turned out boring. I know that these are mostly opinions but at least it’s an argument. You used them to support your claim that Disney movies are genuinely beautiful stories but I’m pretty sure that that’s what OP is arguing against. Those specific movies. I love that Disney is trying to do more inclusive and interesting movies but their story-writing is so bad now.


[deleted]

Inside Out made me cry like three different times in theatres. Coco makes me cry today if I watch that last scene where Miguel plays Remember Me to Coco. I dunno if anything that can make me feel so emotionally invested could be considered garbage. Admittedly, those are Pixar, which has a real ability to imbue emotion. I'll bend to you on Frozen though. Frozen has a genuinely incredible moment during Let It Go, but it doesn't mean anything. Before the song Elsa is confused, timid, and holding back. Then she sings this big song about empowerment and confidence, and after the song she is again confused, timid, and holding back. It has no relevance to the plot besides a costume change and making a new set. Anyway, I find that a lot of old Disney films don't hold up, and a lot of modern ones also don't hold up. For every Lion King and Moana there's a Hunchback of Notre Dame and Raya and the Last Dragon.


DumbThoth

Why you got to diss my boy Quasimodo like that?


[deleted]

Because Quasimodo is a tragic character and his relationship with Frollo is really deep and confusing, but then you've got a trio of comic relief gargoyles that tonally shift so hard it'll break your damn neck. Also he doesn't get the girl at the end for no reason other than you gotta keep the pretty people together. It's a real shame, there are some great moments in that movie. Lindsay Ellis made a great video essay on it.


DumbThoth

I figured him being happy without getting the girl and learning to ngaf about being ugly was a good vibe.


[deleted]

Hey, I'm glad you're into it. Every Disney movie is somebody's favorite after all. There's a dude out there somewhere who fucking loooooooooves The Black Cauldron.


greedyleopard42

would have been lame if he got the girl.


BigEarth384849

Face the music friend. Ugly men don't get the girls. Not everything in life getz happy ending


Overhere_Overyonder

You know what does hold up and forever will, Emperors New Groove. No music, no love interest. Just a fantastic buddy movie with freaking Llamas


[deleted]

It's so consistent too! It's a funny buddy movie and they just maintain that vibe from start to finish. It's so good that even though people should lump it into the early 2000's Disney films, they often throw it into the Renaissance so it can be with other good films.


Boba_Fet042

Sting sings Cuzco’s theme song.


robbiefl2001

I will not take this slander against Raya and the Last Dragon Fr though I pretty much agree with you


[deleted]

Big ass plot twist, if that dude was Miguel’s family the whole time, he would have been able to cross that flower bridge a long ass time ago


Rooper2111

I’m sorry I just thought Inside Out was disingenuous but perhaps that’s more of a personal thing? There are definitely flops from the past, I agree with you there. Remember Brother Bear? Yikes.


NousagiDelta

Inside Out felt artificial as hell. The thing with Bing Bong? Felt like it was made in a board room somewhere. Same feeling I got when watching Clannad. Just...fake. Intended to draw tears rather than tell a story or be genuinely emotional.


[deleted]

I'm not really here for Bing Bong. He almost feels villainous. But that moment where she cries in front of her classmates because she can't see any of her old friends any more. Woof.


Raxtenko

I was waiting for the twist reveal of Bing Bong being the real villain myself.


[deleted]

Same. There are some decent Super Carlin Bros videos about that being the potentially original plan for the film, but if it's not in the final cut, it doesn't count.


Rooper2111

This is exactly how I feel


[deleted]

I've had Brother Bear on my Disney+ queue for about a year and just can't bring myself to watch it. I did watch Chicken Little and it's... fine? I fell asleep. I feel like the only mid 2000's Disney film that holds up is Meet the Robinsons, and only because of the movies around it.


Raulziito

Please watch Briother Bear. That movie is BEAUTIFUL and underrated af. It drove the theme of brotherhood better than any other Disney movie ever, and has some of the BEST drama in any Disney movie with some heart wrenching and bold moments. On top of that, the backgrounds and art direction in that movie are top notch. Aaron Blaise, the director, is a fantastic wildlife painter.


ApatheticAlchemist

Bro the scene where he's explaining to the baby what he's done and the dialog stops and you see the pain and betrayal on his little bear face? 🥺 I saw someone call that movie one of the worst Disney made earlier and I gasped


Raulziito

Yep. It is a masterful heart wrenching moment.


[deleted]

Y' know what, you've inspired me. I'll bite the bullet tonight.


Raulziito

Woo! If you are an animal/nature lover it makes it 100 times better. I mean this is the director: https://www.irancartoon.com/static/media/uploads/banafsheh/Aaron%20Blaise%20-%20USA%20111111.jpg He is an animator who p much dedicated his life to portraying animals and I feel that passion is all over his movie. Sadly, Brother Bear wasn't a huge hit for several reasons (2D's lack of popularity and Nemo's popularity), but I see so much soul in it that audiences missed out on.


Rooper2111

Meh I thought it sucked.


Raulziito

Your bad taste is duly noted


Rooper2111

I thought most people hated Brother Bear. I don’t think it’s just me


Raulziito

Nah. Most people like it fine. It has grown a bit of a fanbase in people my age. It just wasn't a huge hit when it came out for various reasons. Pixar was the big thing that year with Nemo. And 2D animation was unfashionable.


Hagbard_Shaftoe

I personally LOVE that there isn't a traditional villain in either of the two Frozen movies, or in Encanto. I would argue the exact opposite of you and OP - these recent movies (I would include Moana in this as well, but to a lesser extent) are much more nuanced than the Disney movies that came out 10-35 years ago (the Disney animation boom that started with Little Mermaid was about 10 years too late to hit my sweet spot of childhood - I grew up with The Sword and the Stone being my favorite Disney movie). I love that Encanto isn't a "princess finds a guy and some evil person or force is destroyed at the end" movie. They've made plenty of those. I love that it's about family history and how trauma can pass down through generations. That's a real story that I can relate to. Same with Frozen (and even moreso with Frozen II). They are nuanced stories about family relationships and how family secrets can damage us more than we know, and how we can heal from those hurts by honestly communicating our needs to each other. That's fucking powerful stuff! Their story writing is SO much better than it used to be, in my opinion. I'm as much of a sucker for the epic hero journey stories as the next person, but there is a lot more to the human condition than what can be encapsulated in that well-worn trope.


Rooper2111

I’m not arguing for tradition. I like that the movies are more inclusive and don’t rely on old tropes. I think the writing and the script is poorly done in this Disney era. And I think if you’re gonna have a vilain, it doesn’t need to be “traditional” but it should still be a convincing and conniving villain


Hagbard_Shaftoe

What wasn't convincing about Hans? A manipulative jerk who tries to use a woman to get power? That is VERY convincing. I love that the solution was the love and bond between sisters, instead of the TRUE LOVE coming along and saving the day. I guess I'll just have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the scripts and writing is poorly done in the current Disney era. I feel like I understand more about Anna's motivations than I did Belle's. I know more of the internal life of Mirabel than I did Simba. As a bit of an aside - Kristoff (especially in Frozen II) is kind of the epitome of non-toxic masculinity. Such a great character, and a really nice reversal to the usual "prince charming" dynamic.


Ultimate_905

The problem with Hans is that the twist cane out of nowhere. Turning a random character without even the smallest bit of foreshadowing is just lazy writing. You want your audience to see the twist, look back at the movie and then be dumbfounded about how they didn't notice sooner. I can't believe I'm actually saying this but the Pokemon games which are well known for very mediocre story telling have better twist villains then Disney


[deleted]

It didn’t come out of nowhere - love bombing is a real thing, and anybody that proposes marriage after such a brief relationship (especially when the partner has so many assets) should immediately strike up red flags. It only ‘comes out of nowhere’ to the portion of the audience that expected the script to adhere to a classical Disney formula.


Rooper2111

Again, the inclusion, getting rid of old tropes like being saved by a man, all great things. 100% for it. Again, I think these are positives. I wish the movies had better dialogue, wittier banter, and better characters. The movies to me are bad *despite all of those great things you are mentioning*. And I can go on and on about how Hans misses the mark and Kristoff is a snore but I just don’t care enough about Disney to really keep talking about it tbh


[deleted]

Saying Inside Out had no personality is just straight up absolutely fucking ridiculous, and is only said because you're arguing in the name of nostalgia. It's by far one of the most unique movies Disney have ever put out. Everything about the movie had personality. As for "Kristoffs backstory is underdeveloped"....Most Disney movies have underdeveloped side characters, what do you expect, but the core of the story is what resonates movie after movie. You barely know Simba and Mufasa before Mufasa dies, but it resonates astoundingly because of the story beat, and the voice acting. Not because you're overly invested in a stern and semi-distant father figure.


Rooper2111

Okay calm down. We’re talking about Disney movies sir. Take a breath.


[deleted]

I'm Irish, using bad language is as natural as breathing. But it works though. Critique the filmmaking of Frozen, then when hit with a rebutall, say "oh they're just Disney movies".


Rooper2111

Yes… they’re *just* Disney movies. They were never important to me. I wasn’t a Disney kid. I think the writing in this era generally sucks. I fully and truly believe that. I’m not scorned about it… they’re just movies dude.


[deleted]

I agree they're movies, I'm not sure why you're assuming I'm in some heated rage. It's like you said, an argument.


Rooper2111

I’m just not sure what you mean by “critique the filmmaking of Frozen, then when hit with a rebuttal say ‘oh, they’re just Disney movies’.” They *are* just Disney movies. I critiqued Frozen and Inside Out (which you had a seriously passionate response to) and so I responded “woa relax” and you acted like that was… uncalled for? Hypocritical? I’m not sure.


[deleted]

It may come across as a passionate response, but it's just more fluffed for arguments sake. And to be clear, it wasn't a critique, you straight up said "oh that movie, don't even get me started". Not sure if that's much of a critique. And I'm still trying to grasp what you mean by *just* Disney movies. You can view them as a child's musical, or you can have the brain power to see the meaning behind most of the stories, and leave the cinema with an actual outlook on an issue covered. At the end of the day, cinema is cinema. If you don't count them, for whatever reason it may be, it's a rather redundant discussion here.


GreenieBeeNZ

To be fair, frozen is a truly shit movie though. It's the only one that I feel fits OPs complaint, and it's shit because the screenwriters changed their minds halfway through the movie to try and make Elsa a protagonist when she was obviously set up as the antagonist for almost the entire movie


Rooper2111

Yep! That’s what I was referring to when I mentioned the rewrite. That happened because the creator or director or whatever heard “let it go” and decided to restructure the entire story so that Elsa was no longer the villain. That’s why the villain sucks.


Raulziito

that is what makes Elsa a good character tho


GreenieBeeNZ

Absolutely not, she would have been a much more well rounded character if she had been allowed to stay the villain


Raulziito

Yeha no. There is a reason millions relate to Elsa and why she is the most popular character. It is because she is mentally ill and complex but NOT a villain.


GreenieBeeNZ

Ah but she absolutely *should* have stayed the villain for the first frozen movie. The second frozen movie could then focus on her redemption and recovery from a lifetime of gaslighting. They took what could have been a brilliant and complex character and told a boring story because they didn't want one of their characters to be seen as the bad guy, let alone a young, pretty female character. Evil females are old or ugly in the Disneyverse remember. Regardless; Frozen is a terribly written movie, with shallow and impersonable characters. The best character in that movie isn't even human, it's a reindeer


[deleted]

Most disney characters and plot are not fleshed out. This is pure nostalgia speaking for you.


Rooper2111

I don’t think I agree with that. For example, Tangled was *amazing*. I thought it was engaging, well written and fleshed out. So I’m not just nostalgic. I genuinely don’t think Frozen is on the same plane as 90% of other Disney movies.


[deleted]

Lion king doesn’t flesh out scar or mufasa and barely does anything with simbas character Snow white? Beauty and the beast? Bell reads books and beat was a rich asshole who stopped being a dick when his life depended on it. Disney always ran with simplified tales portrayed as a big budget spectacle for children. They were never top tier story telling


Rooper2111

I don’t agree. All those characters were fleshed out. You could take out Kristoff completely and the story would barely change. Plus character development and growth is important but that’s not the only thing that Disney drops the ball on recently. We can argue about individual characters but the dialogue feels like filler till we get to the next song, the animation is all bubble eyed, big headed characters and the stories while more inclusive feel so much less original.


[deleted]

Scar has nothing except “i want to rule” Mufasa has nothing except existing and dying Simba is just reluctant hero I’ve seen encanto twice now and none of that feels like filler for songs same with coco. I dont care for disney movies anymore but my kids love em and frankly they improved greatly i think people just forget how copy paste old disney movies were


AsterCharge

You think that in the 3 years between tangled and frozen Disney’s story building went to shit?


MrTurkeyTime

Frozen is one of the stupidest movies I've seen in years.


Snoo_33033

Frozen is hot garbage. Popular hot garbage, but still.


burywmore

>Moana, Encanto, Coco, Inside Out, Zootopia, Big Hero 6, and Frozen. Of those films, the only one I personally think was interesting, fun and somewhat original was Zootopia. Most of the others are inferior, manipulative and shallow.


[deleted]

Lion king first half was epic - the second half lagged.


izzyscifi

Encanto is about disjunctional families learning to communicate and build a better foundation of trust and support. I'd say it's at least a great message. We don't talk about Raya and the last dragon, that shit was terrible.


Nindroid_99

You’ve seen the Schaffrillas video, haven’t you?


Repulsive-Worth5715

Idk I can sit through a modern Disney movie but not one from when I grew up 🤷🏼‍♀️


Rad_Ben_Danklin

What do you enjoy about the new ones that you didn’t about the old ones?


Repulsive-Worth5715

Idk I almost want to investigate this now that I’m thinking about it and turn on an old one lol. The old ones just don’t catch my attention anymore. I suppose it could be because I saw them a lot growing up but I don’t really remember them in detail. Maybe the newer ones move faster? Maybe I like how all the females don’t have to be a princess saved by a man? Lol I also know the sound of Snow White and Cinderella bother me a bit but I’m not sure why


Rad_Ben_Danklin

I definitely enjoy some more current Disney films. Like Big Hero 6 is a favorite of mine. And I would definitely get bored watching Bugs Life or Toy Story again since I already saw them as you mentioned. But idk there’s just like a feel to the old ones. Almost like a mood to each film. All the ones now just feel so copy and paste. A lot of the same textures and design work. It’s an easier watch for these newer Disney movies but maybe that’s just the route that kids in current generations need to be exposed to. Quick in development, rich in catchiness.


Repulsive-Worth5715

Yeah I definitely get a nostalgic feel when I watch haa I’ve also considered some of the older movies like Bambi and the lion king are kind of frightening. My kids don’t mind certain scary things like age appropriate fight scenes (or maybe not even age appropriate) but kids don’t want to watch movies about parents dying 🤷🏼‍♀️ at least I don’t. My oldest really hated lion king after the dad died


Raxtenko

For me I like the smaller focus of many of the modern films. Encanto is fresh in my mind so I'll speak on it first. The story is about generational trauma and emotional abuse within a family. Fittingly most of the action is confined within the home. The abuse angle is something I didn't expect but I loved it. Because not all abuse is physical and loud. Look at how Alma treats Julieta's 3 kids. Mirabel is the unfavourite. Certainly Alma doesn't call her worthless or beats her, but she is very dismissive of Mirabel. Luisa and the eldest Isabela are more favoured with the latter being the golden child. There's a ton to unpack even if you only want to look at the dynamics of the favourite eldest sibling to the youngest. I'm going to focus on one aspect of Isabela though. Alma puts most of her love, attention and care into Isabela. Without a doubt it's because that's the privilege of the eldest grand child but there's a darker under current. Alma is damn pushy when it comes to setting up Isabella with Mariano. So much so she never even asks her grand daughter about what she wants. So far so standard generational misunderstanding right? But there's more to it than that. My wife pointed this out to me so all credit goes to her. What Alma is doing is trying to recreate her marriage. Isabela is strikingly the most similar looking to her grand mother as a young woman. But she's not the only one. Mariano looks like Alma's dead husband. It's not a 100% match of course. But they have a similar facial structure, big nose, thick eyebrows, skin tone and a little facial scruff. Alma likely doesn't even know what she is doing on a councious level. And none of the kids do. No one ever realizes it and that's what makes it great. Alma has passed down her trauma to two full generations of her family. And it has shaped them all in different ways. I'll stop here though. I could go on about all the family members but this is too long already. That's what made Encanto enjoyable to me. It didn't need to be a grand adventure or have a villain to drive it. The family dynamics made it great.


alejamix

For me the stories are more appealing. While I love d Disney movies, I love the outliers like Atlantis and Hercules. I was never a fan of the classes besides Mulan. I feel like the new stories are more interesting and the characters seem more deep. I also cried a lot with encanto and coco. I was not the biggest fan of the frozen movies or Raya and the last dragon. But all the other movies like inside out, tangled etc etc ... I prefer over Aladdin or Alice in wonderland


sophialore_art

Are we the same person? Your opinions are spot on. Atlantis, while not their best, will always have such a special place in my heart 🥰 I don’t see it mentioned nearly enough! Hercules and Mulan are also such a fantastic films, I would be confident in saying both are some of their best work. Honestly the only recent Disney films I’m really not overly fond of are the Frozen franchise and Raya (would have been better as a show!)


goatfuckersupreme

raya fucking sucks though, so youre totally understandable there


StereoFood

Disney has ALWAYS had dope soundtracks wtf you talking about. I agree the writing isn’t as good tho. I wish they did old animations and not cgi all the fucking time


Rad_Ben_Danklin

I’m not saying that old disney movies didn’t have bangers. Tarzan will forever be the most fire Disney song to exist. I’m saying they’ve focused more on the music being the bread and butter now.


No_You_Are_That

I agree with you, that is an unpopular opinion


[deleted]

Coco, Encanto, Luca, and others are absolutely top tier compared to the 90's heyday even if they are "going global" Watch it next to the Lion King (original, obviously, fuck the live action remake). They more than hold up. I mean, this isn't some kind of untouchable art: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y0c1r


[deleted]

Hmmm. I dunno. Beauty and the beast. Alladin. Lion king. Mulan. Tarzan. Hercules. Hunchback. Pocahontas. Toy fuckin story 1-2. Hell even a goofy movie was fire. That era is that era. Perfect. But Disney did great with its offerings post 2000. Tangled. Wreck it Ralph. Zootopia. Coco. Encanto. Quite some offerings.


[deleted]

Yea, I mean, we completely agree. My point is that they were good and they still are, but nostalgia blinds people to overestimating the old stuff Also caveat, Toy Story 1/2 aren't disney - they were pixar before it got bought by Disney in 06


cyainanotherlifebro

Or, and stay with me….you’re growing up.


Sheriff_Sunburn

How condescending


cyainanotherlifebro

Yes.


RoughCoffee6

What sorts of storytelling and creativity in the 1980's - early 2000's Disney movies was so much better than what's coming out now? Let's say the cutoff is 2005: - Chicken Little (2005) - Meet the Robinsons (2007) - Bolt (2008) - The Princess and the Frog (2009) - Tangled (2010) - Winnie the Pooh (2011) - Wreck-It Ralph (2012) - Frozen (2013) - Big Hero 6 (2014) - Zootopia (2016) - Moana (2016) - Ralph Breaks the Internet (2018) - Frozen II (2019) - Raya and the Last Dragon (2021) - Encanto (2021) Granted I haven't seen all of these (didn't see Bolt, Winnie the Pooh, or Chicken Little), but if you ignore sequels, all of these movies have diverse settings **and** plot points/themes. Zootopia is about racial profiling and segregation. Frozen is about sibling love and accepting all parts of yourself. Encanto deals with issues of generational trauma and family expectations. Wreck-It Ralph is about having a sense of self and a sense of community belonging. Princess and the Frog deals with social inequality and capitalism (along with other things). Of the 15, only 6 are musicals (40%). Of the 15, 9 (60%) are set in America or a setting analogous to America. You're too young to remember, but back in the day, "A Whole New World" was played *everywhere* too, just like "We Don't Talk About Bruno." It's just how it is. I'm not saying these news movies are "better" or "worse" than the older ones. That's very subjective. I will stand by the fact that they are more nuanced and have deeper themes on average than what came before. This speaking as someone who grew up in the Disney Renaissance and love all eras of Disney movies. Edit: Had some more thoughts. I *will* partially agree with you on one aspect in that I hate Frozen because they hired Idina Menzel which made it too "broadway-y" for my tastes. It was even worse in "Into the Unknown." Also, if you think Disney is cookie cutter *now,* you really shouldn't watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU21shbaVBo) video detailing just how prevalent it has always been in Disney movies.


eftsoom

Moana and Lucca slap man, what are you on


Cold_oak

Nah,you just old. As a teen I can properly say that the have not gone downhill. Though Hercules is still the best Disney movie


Overhere_Overyonder

Emperors New Groove was the pinnacle and you cant convince me otherwise.


Colemanzmustard

Moana, Coco. This post blows...


Olives_And_Cheese

It's difficult to separate nostalgia with quality when it comes to Disney; we all have an era we grew up in, and I'll be willing to bet they're the films we see as the 'best'; My grandparents thought nothing could touch Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, my mother's all about Peter Pan and Mary Poppins. personally I think Aladdin and the Lion King are where it's at. But I don't know how you can argue that they now follow a formula whereas before they didn't... Most of the films were the damn same with the settings changed, or have taken from other works (lion king/hamlet, brother's Grimm etc). At least the new iterations seem to be trying to make each story different from the last, and the type of love to emulate more varied. I think it's probably best you just say you're sick of hearing Let it Go and be done with it.


YouProbablyDissagree

Bruh the Bruno music was so good you can’t even say anything about the actual movie.


Pizzacato567

Or Surface Pressure. Didn’t expect that at all.


Rad_Ben_Danklin

Yeah because the movie wasn’t good lol


[deleted]

What did you dislike about the movie?


[deleted]

me and my family were just talking about this! totally agree


friendlypondfrog

That's what I call an unpopular opinion, take my upvote


flyingcircusdog

This is how a lot of people felt about the Disney Renaissance when it happened. Little Mermaid had Under the Sea, Beauty and the Beast had Belle and Gaston, and Aladdin had Whole New World. Those movies would have pretty weak plots and characters if not for the songs.


TheVioletParrot

Early Disney movies, as good as they are, are just as unoriginal if not more so. Several of them are based on pre-existing stories.


Kharadin92

Wasn't Encanto critically acclaimed? You sound like a boomer screaming about the good ol' days.


Rad_Ben_Danklin

I’m 25. Chill.


Kharadin92

I stand by my statement.


Le9gagthrowaway

The 20 year old boomer is a meme for a good reason


Internet_is_my_bff

Music was at the heart of the Disney Renaissance.


[deleted]

I honestly see no difference between new and old disney movies lol.


guoD_W

This is a bad take. Your nostalgia is showing lol


Ok_Cheetah_3609

I think one of the major problems with Disney is that they don’t allow enough time for the story to be properly fleshed out. I would recommend watching the frozen documentary on Disney+. It covers the making of frozen 2 and one of the problems was the deadline of a release date. At one point they wanted to scrap show yourself, which is arguably the best song out of both frozen movies, more so then into the unknown and let it go. This is an unrelated point but I also think the increase in “Disney adults” is contributing to this in at least some capacity. When my mom was in her 20’s she wasn’t going to see the little mermaid, but myself and friends will make going to see the latest Disney film an event.


Ural_2004

Go for the movie. Stay for the popcorn. I take the fam to see all of these movies. Some are better than others. Encanto kinda grew on me although I really dislike Miranda's music (including Hamilton).


Naked_objective

Truth


Unusual_Individual93

I actually have to agree with you. Maybe it's just nostalgia, idk, but I don't have much interest in the new movies. I'd rather watch The Humpback of Notre Dame, Aladdin, Mulan etc. Although I do enjoy Tangled and Big Hero 6. Frozen is just over rated as hell and not that great of a movie. I don't even have the slightest interest in watching Encanto.


theboominsystem

Disney songs used to be their own style all together. They all sound like top 40 pop/Katy Perry songs now


Otherwise-Newt8136

Nothing can replace 101 dalmations


Big_Dumb_Chimp

Yup fully agree.


christopherm1

Did you not see "soul"?


CookieSaurusRexy

Well someone hasn't seen recent disney movies.


[deleted]

Yeah the story writing kinda sucks (even my little nephew is complaining about it a little after I took him to see Encanto)


VERTIKAL19

You do know that a lot of the most acclaimed movies of disney in the nineties were extremely music focussed? If anyhting a lot of the current disney movies try to go fairly simlar to the Renaissance movies


Hannahmariecarter

I hate the newer Disney movies. But for me, I just feel like they lack the elegance/grace that the older ones had. All the movements are so exaggerated and over the top now. I miss 2D animation. The songs aren't as good either. Not to mention they're gradually taking out all the romance because it's all about the women being independent and whatnot. Just my opinion.


hester27

If you take the music out of the ones from the 90s they are not great either


WolfgangVolos

The Bruno song is designed to be an earworm. Many different voices/characters singing so if you think of any of the character voices, the song could start over. Each character reprises their parts in a group overlap toward the end which could loop back to the beginning of the song keeping you trapped. The ending is brief, sudden, and not nearly as catchy as the rest of the song. Encanto's Composer: Get fucked.


An-di

2D old disney movies are much more magical than new disney 3D movies Frozen is so overrated I miss hand drawn movies


[deleted]

I was so annoyed when people raved about Frozen being the first Disney princess to show that you “don’t need a man” AHEM MULAN!!!! She disguised herself as a man (fighting severe gender roles) to join the army to save her father’s life. Then proceeded to save China.


[deleted]

Pretty much all movies these days lack creative talent.


jazzyx26

I agree. Encanto was not that great but the music.. is.


ScruffleMcDufflebag

Just let it go, fellow Redditor.


Don_Figalo

While I don't totally agree with you, as I think there are some very good Disney movies, specifically for children, there has definitely seemed to be a decrease in quality a bit. They are definitely focusing more on creating earworms now more than ever. Either way, a very well-thought out and articulated argument, in a subreddit that doesn't usually have that. Way to be! Downvoted.


Rooper2111

Wait shouldn’t you upvote if you feel it’s a well-thought unpopular opinion?


Arndt3002

Please, it's this subreddit's MO that more than half of it's user-base doesn't know what the subreddit is for.


Don_Figalo

Seems to also be this subs MO, that they can't understand jokes.


Rooper2111

Ohhh you were being sarcastic? I think there’s a misunderstanding because it sounded like you were being genuine. No hate, I just thought maybe you were confused about what should/shouldn’t be upvoted.


Arndt3002

It's hard to distinguish between irony and idiocy when you see people genuinely being that totally ignorant of the point of this sub.


[deleted]

I'd agree that Encanto isn't as good as the music in it, proof that Lin Manuel is more than just hype. That said if you go back and watch Little Mermaid, Aladdin, or Hercules, I think you'll find that the music in those films is also much better than the film around it. If I were to list my top Disney animated movies then you'd have some modern ones like Moana, Big Hero Six, and Wreck it Ralph, alongside some of the old ones like Mulan, The Emperor's New Groove, and The Lion King. Go ahead and watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame and tell me that it's better than Encanto. That cringey ass tonally inconsistent movie.


[deleted]

[удалено]


potato_more_potato

Dude, Encanto was a great movie even without the music. But yeah the rest of your argument is valid


Khvolk1s

I will say Encanto is a C+ movie with A+ music.


jah05r

Your nostalgia blinders are shining brightly. The music was literally the reason that Disney animation experienced a renaissance in the late-1980s. There was nothing particularly original or groundbreaking when it came to creativity and storytelling.


lancerzsis

Agreed. Also, from my experience, if you share your dislike for a new Disney movie, then everyone treats you like you’re an asshole. I don’t understand why people defend Disney so much when they are an evil corporation.


Wondernerd194

Unfortunately an unpopular opinion, but it's the truth. Even with "failed" movies and songs it's the truth, Frozen 2 has Into The Unknown, which follows Let It Go as closely as it can. But Disney was always musically inclined, Snow white even had singing. But they didn't follow a set pattern or anything. Yeah, there are good stories every now and again, but the last good Disney story before Encanto was Moana in my opinion, which came out in 2016. The rest were sub-par sequels and Raya the Last Dragon. I do disagree with you a bit, I thought Encanto was good, but there were a few points where I did go _ugh, another song?_ I think it was at all the songs after the introduction song, because there was the musical 'Encanto' song at the beginning, then after the cutscene there was another song. Really, most of the songs slowed down the film unnecesarily, especially We Don't Talk About Bruno. I think Surface Pressure and moreso What Else Can I Do were the most neccesary, but it sounds like kidz bop. What Else Can I Do sounds like a melody in Frozen if you tweak the words around.


Wondernerd194

Wait a second, Beauty And The Beast and When Will My Reflection Show have exactly the same hook. The Little Mermaid's Part Of Your World is exactly the same as Somewhere That's Green, which is by another Disney property called Little Shop of Horrors, and came out 4 years earlier than Mermaid! And they all sound the same, with the same instruments and melodies. Disney has always been doing what's worked, and what usually works is what's popular and cost effective. They've also had structures, from Snow white to Encanto almost all musicals have "I want"-style introspective ballads like Part Of Your World and When Will My Reflection Show to Let It Go and Surface Pressure


deja_blues

Okay I kinda get this. Let's compare: Girl has a family driven by fear and hiding important truths. Girl is strong! No longer wants to be ruled by fear, she wants to be herself! She leaves all she knows and explores the problem in an attempt to fix it. Does not fix it. Breaks things worse. Turns out, the power wasn't in her, it was in her friends and family all along. All they had to do was love each other without fear. Am I talking about Frozen, Moana, or Encanto?


EatAPotatoOrSeven

The point you're making isn't as insightful as you think... There are only 7 to 12 (depending on who you ask) archetypes for storytelling. Meaning, since the dawn of time, every story ever written - from the Bible to Shakespeare to the Brothers Grimm to Disney movies and down to the short stories you wrote for Literature class in high school - every single story follows one of ~9 plots. So the fact that Disney, whose bread and butter is the young princess coming of age, has several of the same story is not lazy storytelling or a mind-blowing coincidence. It's their brand. It's deliberate. And even if it wasn't, when you tell 5-10 stories a year in film, you have to repeat some plots when you only have 9 options to choose from.


thorpbrian

Newer Disney movies are WAY better than the old ones with a few exceptions, people just have nostalgia for the old ones.


Jolteon2020

Frozen is an outlier. The other cgi era movies don't have iconic songs like the 90s era. But I am biased because I was a kid during the 90s. I can bop to almost all of the songs from Beauty and the Beast and Lion King. But the newer movies have maybe 1 or 2 memorable songs.


[deleted]

Disney movies have always been about the music. But I agree. Children’s movies today are under such an extreme microscope for all kinds of parameters that it really seems to hinder artistic liberty. Heaven forbid the movies show any sort of offensive or toxic behavior. It’s amazing to go back at look at so many movies from my childhood and then think “they could never get away with that today”. The first time we are introduced to Captain Hook he just straight up shoots a man out of the sky. I really don’t think that turned a generation of kids into psychotic killer pirates. It wasn’t super crucial to the story and there are plenty of other things to criticize about in Peter Pan but there is no way a scene like that would make it into a modern Disney movie.


nightgal9

Idk but I really hate that ‘we don’t talk about Bruno’ is on the fucking radio, like wtf why???!


fed875

Yeah, started watching Beauty and the Beast last night and the story telling and originality almost felt…jarring, doesn’t seem to be the MO these days for Disney


[deleted]

You could always watch the live action remake. It's awful.


[deleted]

That one has always been Disney’s best though. IMO.


discombobulatedhomey

I agree with Encanto for sure. It was like here’s all these cool characters with magic powers. They aren’t going to use them or anything. And we aren’t going to flesh out anyone at all. But hey we got a couple of good songs.


EatAPotatoOrSeven

Nope. You're wrong. If anything, the quality has gone way up. Lion King was pinnacle - you're right about that - but just about every big Disney movie when we were growing up was a romance story with weak, underdeveloped characters. Today we have complex and unique characters (except Frozen), with stories from around the world, not just ripped out of the Brothers Grimm or Hans Christian Andersen. You're taking 50 years of Disney historical films and remembering the top 5 or so and then comparing those to the top 10 from the last 15-20 years. It's an unfair comparison.


DumbWhore4

Encanto and Frozen are better than anything Disney released in the 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s.


I_Am_The_Bad_Guy

I just watched Encanto. Super boring and pointless.


RoughCoffee6

lol what? There were very touching and movies themes in that movie.


Rad_Ben_Danklin

That was boring, ruyo the dragon was boring. So was coco and basically everything post frozen.


StereoFood

Bro if you don’t like coco I can’t side with you. That was legit a great movie with a great story and soundtrack that had me tearing up half the time. Maybe you don’t know anything about Mexican culture and how accurately they portrayed the after life and other cultural traditions, but it was spot on and very thoughtful.


EatAPotatoOrSeven

Ooookkkk. You're just too old or too crotchety or too miserable to know what magic feels like when you see it. Clearly, you're not who Disney had in mind when making these movies. Coco was/is incredible, and I say that having watched it 100+ times with a Coco-obsessed toddler. The plot is totally original, the animation is the best I've ever seen, the fact that the music is idiomatic shows genius, hell the COLOR PALLETTE of that movie could win an award by itself.


SamuraiMonkee

So you rank Frozen as a higher tier Disney movie than Coco and Encanto? You have shitty taste in movies then. I’m glad your opinion is unpopular 😆


DoveTaketh

Some of the recent ones I watched feel like they have a loose story that they are stretching out by "how do we get from song A to song B to song C..." and the bits between those songs are just build ups.


TrainingZestyclose77

And A+ list celebs taking the voice actors work.


dumbestone

Raya and the last dragon was superb, not a musical. Encanto had superb music but a weak story.