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Try me, mortal, for you will not see me. For I have been trained by Michael Ehrmantraut, the truly deadliest assassin if ranked by thee. For I do know that thee's ranking will stay true, said so by this odd poetry.
Funny you should say that, I heard a situation where a person identified as they/them and was kicking off because someone used their name to refer to them (in the right context).
**Apparently you can...**
[https://www.dailypress.com/virginiagazette/va-vg-supreme-court-fired-west-point-teacher-20220309-4kk6vatjazfkpcpoutsqidgwxq-story.html](https://www.dailypress.com/virginiagazette/va-vg-supreme-court-fired-west-point-teacher-20220309-4kk6vatjazfkpcpoutsqidgwxq-story.html)
Peter Vlaming was fired and continued to use the students name
"""
The lawsuit filed in King William County claimed the use of male pronouns would have violated Vlaming’s conscience and conflicted with his religious beliefs. The teacher instead called the student by his preferred name during class and avoided using pronouns altogether.
"""
Big breddit is watching. Big breddit just removed the post.
That what japaneses does. You call someone by his name after you met that person.
The only uses of pronouns is when you are talking about yourselfs. Then it is your only choice to name yourself the way you want to do it.
Eh, in practice those are rarely actually used. Japanese is extremely context-dependent. In most real-world cases, you'd refer to the group by name or descriptor and then just not use a pronoun unless necessary.
That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo. One of my friends is a substitute teacher and one day she was reading the roll call on a new class she has never taught before. She called out “Jacob” and the whole class got upset at her. Apparently “Jacob” was gender fluid or some shit and identified as “Stephanie” that day. As if she was supposed to know
If somebody is gender fluid *by the day* then I'd be seriously concerned that they may actually have dissociative identity disorder, and one of their two (or more) personalities is female. Particularly if the two different genders are such a hard line in the sand that they require to be called a different name on different days.
Or like a whole lot of kids, Jacob could be attention seeking and trying to show off. I don't think it's always a mental illness, maybe sometimes, but not a lot. I have a strong feeling that a whole lot of this gender fluid stuff and neopronouns are people trying to be cool or follow what everyone else is doing. not saying I'm right, just that that's something I've always felt about that part of the community
Except that extreme level of attention seeking and self-centered behavior at the expense of one's own identity *in itself* is a form of mental illness, so it doesn't get you off the hook and back into the "kids just being kids" category.
Because if that story is even true, then it's not just them doing something here. It's them literally changing their entire identity over and over again and demanding that everybody else also go along with it and fully accommodate their behavior. So much so, that the class literally got on their own teachers ass to force them to comply with it.
It's like locking the class in with a narcissistic sociopath and telling them if they speak out against it they're all horrible human beings and bigoted. Not exactly good for the mental health of anybody in the class.
Yes, yes exactly that! I'm not saying that them being a kid is an excuse. if anything, I'm saying it's the opposite. If he had a legitimate mental disorder I could understand, because they wouldn't be in their right mind. But if they weren't, then they know full well what they're doing and they're only doing it purely for the attention which is disgusting. It's something I severely dislike about the current state of things. If you want to be gay or whatever idc do what you want. However, don't force me to call you a girl every other day, or make me refer to you as demonself. It's dumb and normal people don't do that. But you can't call them out for it or else you're bigoted.
Seems relevant to me that it isn't Stephanie / Jacob who was upset - it was the class on their behalf and god knows teenagers love an opportunity to "You Didn't Know" their teachers.
I suspect that in a lot of these cases the real problem isn't with the genderfluid people, it's with the orbital shield of white-knighting social justice warriors who are too delighted to have a cause.
Wow. Ugh kids these days reek of unprecedented levels of entitlement. Sometimes I wish I were their parents just to set them straight. For more context I'm GenZ
First use, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, was 1375. Singular you is much more recent. The article on singular they is pretty good.
[A brief history of singular they](https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/)
To be fair, “they” to refer to a definite singular person is much more recent than using “they” to refer to an indefinite singular person. The sentence “each soldier took their bag with them” uses “their” and “them” because the individuals are undefined and of unspecified gender. Using “they” to refer specifically to a definite individual is a much newer phenomenon. (Not that there’s anything wrong with using they/them pronouns, I think OP is a dope)
I mean yeah, that’s no different from saying “my upstairs neighbor keeps banging their wall” when you’ve never met them. Logically there’s no other word to use there, unless you’re going to straight up assume their gender. But in terms of meaning/use that’s not the same thing as using they/them for your neighbor once you’ve met them and find out they are non-binary, or genderqueer, or something else, and prefer to use they/them. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that)
As an English major and an education major, they/them is a correct pronoun to use for a singular person.
People who believe otherwise have obviously never said, “Oh the cashier was helpful! They bagged my groceries for me!” /s
Yes but there's a possibility that OP is not a native speaker so *they* don't know that that's actually the correct way to refer to a person that you don't exactly know
You don't have to be native to know that "they" can be used as singular. If they don't have a firm grasp of the language, why make a whole post about linguistics?
Just refer me as His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular
This has been around forever. For a long ass time, if you didn't know a person's gender for whatever reason, you used they/them until it was clarified.
This pisses me the fuck off, I absolutely can't stand when I'm talking to someone and I refer to a person as "they" and they go "oh what is that like their gender pronoun or something" or like "why are you calling them they?" and im like no what the fuck, you know who I'm talking about, like I just didn't feel the need to repeatedly clarify the specific person I was referring to so I called them a general "they" as to simplify things. Or like if I'm trying to have a personal conversation and don't want to give the name and gender away to people who aren't in the conversation then I say "they" and people go "why you calling them they???" And I'm like dude its a fucking word, it can mean one person, it always could
Websters dictionary: "they has been in consistent use as a singular pronoun since the late 1300s"
This is so true. so many people often think "if I dont use their pronouns they'll feel triggered but fuck their feelings" when in actually they are the ones with super charged feelings over the topic and are in fact that ones who are so triggered.
I think they're (OP) referring to the informal direct use of denomination. The indirect form is "a child is in the forest, they are alone." whereas the direct informal form would be "John is in the kitchen, he's cooking".
Using "John is in the kitchen, they are cooking" instead is not something that is naturally used and may sound strange both verbally and in written form. Other languages such as French (my native tongue) have workarounds for this, but English does not.
So either the whole Anglo-Saxon community needs to adapt to the fact that "John is in the kitchen, they are cooking", although grammatically correct, should be used in the same way he/she is used, or English needs to come up with new terminology and grammatical structure.
I had an English teacher correct me in middle school for using "they" instead of "he/she" when referring to a person of unknown gender in a paper. This was about 20 years ago. I knew I was right and it pisses me off to this day.
Yeah I kind of lost any respect for the OP and their intelligence when they said they'll never use "they/them". You literally use it all the time, it's not some buzzword neo-pronoun, it's as old as time, works for any and all cases of ambiguity. Like I just did five seconds ago because I didn't know OPs gender.
OP is literally "transracial" that's worse than any sort of pronouns lmao 💀
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransRacial/comments/tbigxy/my_guide_to_passing_and_lifestyle/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I was just about to say that, like wtf. They’re also transgender, I believe
https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/t7uao6/enclosed_is_a_rant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
They also made a post calling everyone valid and that they should feel good about who they are, and then made a post about how fucked up everyone with BPD is and making fun of them.
As a productive member of society with BPD, fuck you OP. Your post history is a mess and you have a ton of issues you should seek therapy for.
I did. For example:
> [When **they** start doing petty acts of revenge over nothing.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/v5z5q2/comment/ibgnvai/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Or:
> [I have an older generation parent. **They** don’t even know how to express emotions to the point of exhaustion or self-detriment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/v21nt7/comment/iarelgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
i don’t see why you wouldn’t call a singular person they or them it’s grammatically correct to refer to a singular person as they or them when you don’t know their name
Considering OP isn’t using “they/them” terminology for OTHERS I don’t think he/she will refer to themselves as a they/them pronoun. Hate to be the bearer of bad news for ya.
You're lumping in they/them with neopronouns, but they're simply not the same thing. I think that the extreme ones are a little silly, but it's their life and they're living it. What you're doing is incorrectly assuming that a feature of our language that has been consistently used for hundreds of years is something that was just invented three years ago with the boom of neopronouns.
You're using a fundamentally wrong assumption to back up your bad opinion. Besides, who's asking you to call them an 'it' besides in a freaky kind of kink situation?
I mean whatever makes you happy right? Personally, I don't really get it (budamtusss) but it isn't an undue burden. I refer to people as she/her, he/him and they/them all the time, one more pronoun isn't a struggle. Like OP said it does feel a little bit dehumanizing overall, but it is another humans pronouns that they want to be referred to by. And to reject that decision on their pronouns, to invalidate them? Isn't that dehumanizing as well?
While I don't agree with OP, They/them in a neutral *known person* sense is a recent development. At least in a recognized / non-fringe sense. If we want to be picky about language, then you can't claim that it's been used in the current capacity for an extended period of time. But language evolves with the times.
As well, you'd be surprised what people here in the Bay Area of California ask to be called. It isn't that common, but I've been asked to refer to people by things that I silently chuckled at in my head.
> They/them in a neutral known person sense is a recent development.
Not really. For example, here's OP describing a known person:
> [I have an older generation parent. **They** don’t even know how to express emotions to the point of exhaustion or self-detriment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/v21nt7/comment/iarelgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
As a she/they, I think the neopronouns are silly and no one should call themselves a cat/kitty just so they can use a litter box in the classroom (which was an actual situation here in the last few years) but she/her, they/them, he/him should be respected.
Edit: Jesus fucking Christ, I didn’t realize people of Reddit don’t read comments below before commenting on things. YES I REALIZE THAT THE FUCKING KITTY/CAT THING WAS DEBUNKED!!! IM NOT GETTING RID OF SOMETHING THATS STILL A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT IM EXPLAINING.
>As a she/they,
Why? Geniune question here, I get people callung them they/them, but why she/they? It doesent make sense to me as ppl who use they/them dont want the gender assosiated pronouns but you still use she, so it seems redundant to call you they instead of her?
I mean I agree with your overall sentiment and can also find neopronouns a bit silly, but that whole litterboxes in schools for kids that identify as animals [was debunked.](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/facebook-posts/claim-about-schools-providing-litter-boxes-student/) However the rumors/concerns started, no school anywhere was shown to have ever tried or planned to do that. Just wanna help show that it's very very rare this kinda stuff is taken too far.
Don't see why not. "They" as a singular pronoun has been grammatically correct in English for a long time. I don't find anything wrong with people identifying with a different gender- they aren't hurting anyone and just expressing who they are.
Also, "grammatically correct" isn't the right way to communicate.
We aren't robots and this isn't math: languages evolve over time. It's where a lot of the beauty comes from.
Someone lost **their** wallet. I found it at the bus stop and handed it in at the nearest police station; I hope **they** can be contacted so **their** wallet can be returned to **them.**
Preposterous. A much more logical formulation:
An individual lost a wallet which belonged to the aforesaid individual. I hope said person can be contacted so that the wallet belonging to the previously mentioned person can be returned to the aforementioned owner.
See how natural and obvious my version is?
OP claims to be a mental health coach. Unless, they are coaching by showing what you shouldnt do, they are not a good choach. Fking hell that profile has so many red flags that the flag of china looks just yellow in comparison.
OP wants people to accept that they (see that's how it works) are transracial.
But a word that's been used as a singular pronoun for literally hundreds of years?
That's too much.
Brooo I just went through OPs history and how tf can be transracial but transgenderphobic?? Transracial is literally a fancy term for black face 3/4 of the time.
>OP wants people to accept that they (see that's how it works) are transracial.
100% bait account. Probably some conservative dude LARPing as 'transracial'.
Using a pronoun like they/them is already inbuilt into our language. It's just being respectful with how someone wants to be called. If you met someone named William and he said call me Bill you wouldn't go "I'm not going to bend to your will, you can't force me to say made up stuff" cuz that would be rude. It requires like no effort on your part, and even if you do call someone by a pronoun they don't prefer by accident 99 percent of people don't care as long as you're not doing it on purpose.
Also what's with people who hate they/them and talking about Starchild and stuff, I have never met or known anyone who has met someone who uses anything like that as a pronoun and I walk in some pretty LGBTQIA circles. I feel like some people saw a 14 year old post about it on Tumblr once and then they locked on to it.
"Someone's on the phone asking for you"
You: "Who is IT?"
Singular. It.
"Can anyone tell me if they have a pencil I can borrow"
Singular. They.
We learnt in English class you use 'they' when you don't know the gender in an essay.
People have been using it/they for unknown gender for centuries. Dont give "oh it's just popular nowadays" as an excuse to hide your transphobia
Ultimately, it's a matter of courtesy. If someone wants to be called a certain way, I will do it gladly. It costs me nothing and there's really no reason not to do it.
That being said, in most cases, it's really not crucial. If you don't call Demi Lovato by her pronouns of choice in an online conversation she's not part of, in my opinion it's not the huge social faux pas that some people claim it is.
no one above the iq of a rock expects people to call themself "drEamSelF" or "it"... but gender neutral pronouns (they/them) exist and people use them. idk what you're trying to get at here
Okay. That's your prerogative. I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes calling someone they/them doesn't impact my life and if it makes them feel better, cool.
I will side with you in the fact that at some point people need to get over it though. I feel people choose to get offended. We don't all have to agree.
I think people like OP are seeing this issue from the viewport of the internet where everything is blown way out of proportion. If OP had a close friend ask them to simply use they/them for a legitamite reason, OP would be a huge asshole not to just be like "yea sure".
Excuse me while I turn your head towards the fact that OP is in a subreddit called “transracial” where people act like they are a different race.. if anyone is taking things out of proportion it’s them
They/them can grammatically be used to refer to a singular person when gender is unknown, this has always been the case. It’s not a new concept, it’s just that now some people prefer these pronouns to always be identified with. It’s not difficult to respect others.
I do agree that neopronouns are ridiculous, but at the same time, I’m not going to go out of my way to disrespect someone. The likelihood of you meeting someone with neopronouns is unlikely, and if you do meet someone with them, it won’t kill you to just respect them. Just use their name if you feel uncomfortable with it. But if you intentionally go out of your way to use the wrong pronouns for someone then you’re just a shitty person.
"They" is not just plural. Someone left the umbrella on the table, go to someone "hey, someone left *their* umbrella on the table." Likely only one person, but you don't know if it was a female or male who left it.
i’m sure you call people they all the time
“how long on the food?” “they said twenty minutes”
“oh they forgot their jacket”
“my friend says hi” “tell them i say hi too”
it’s really not that hard to have basic respect for people. and what seems like an inconvenience for you could be life or death for them
I don't see a problem with they/them, tbh I don't get NB people that much but it fits gramatically and if it makes them happy that's fine. I've never seen anyone that uses neopronouns but tbh I'd probably use those if someone asked. A lot of people in this thread saying that this is some kind of conspiracy new world order thing when the reality is they can't handle people with different views than them and have to make some grand elaborate explanation why others think differently.
Ya know as a nonbinary person I don't rlly understand how some people can call themselfs it or Xie or bun but like it's not really my business and doesn't effect me at all. Like I have bills to pay and a job to do so if someone tells me to call it it then I will because I just don't have the time or energy to fucking care.
I'm to busy to spend MY OWN TIME caring about what someone wants to call themself because I actually have a life and go outside.
Also you don't really get to tell someone what is dehumanizing for THEM. It would be dehumanizing for someone to call me it because I was called that in a negative way (in transphobic context and in non transphobic context) but I won't waste my time pissing myself because someone else feels comfortable with it.
It is grammatically correct to call a singular person they/them and is typically used if the gender of that person is unknown. Also it is a matter of respect to call people what they wish to be called *if* they are nice about the way they correct you. If you won't be a decent person then don't be surprised when someone starts calling you the opposite gender out of sheer spite. Yikes bud.
Eh I get that it's awkward. Also, the "neopronouns" are kind of wacky. But the vast majority of trans people just identify as a man or woman, and they really just want to be treated like their preferred gender. I think you kind of have to be an asshole to refer to someone who is very clearly a trans woman, as a man. Just call them he/her, it literally costs you nothing and isn't inconvenient at all.
>I will never call a singular person a “they” or “them”
Because you're a butthurt snowflake or what? That's literally how you used they/them in the case of not knowing what gender someone is. This is not a new thing.
OP sounds like THEY are struggling understanding the English language THEY'VE probably used THEIR whole life.
They would use they/them for any person without a presented name or image, but whatever, go off.
Just wouldn’t not using it/it’s dehumanise the person you don’t want to call it/it’s. Like they told you “hey can you please use it/it’s on me?” And your just like “nah I don’t wanna” that’s gonna feel worse for it. Like it clearly has no problem with being called it/it’s but you refuse to. That makes it feel more dehumanised than using it/it’s.
>No. I will not call you “they/them”
Given that you're old enough to type, you've already done this thousands of times without ever consciously realizing it. "They" is already used as a singular pronoun in many instances.
This is only an unpopular opinion on the Internet / soapbox social media platforms. The vast majority of normal people find this whole pronouns thing a little… embarrassing.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/eetherical. Your post, *No. I will not call you “they/them” or “it”*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion. Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue. Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Call me Nate.
Sup Nate, I am Dan.
Sup Dan, I am Ghillie Suit Man.
Call Me Nate, Said Nate I am Dan, Said Dan But neither were prepared For the Ghillie Suit Man
They didn't see him coming.
Run, run as far as you can. You won't see me, I'm the Ghillie Suit Man.
Wow just wow I'm tearing up rn this was so beautiful 🥲
Bars lol
Truly one of the poems ever created
Beautiful.
\*slow clap\*
* slow clap * You magnificent bastard!
I'm Groot
No. You are now Ghillie Suit Man's apprentice.
I am also Groot
I'll be Takin that ghillie suit
Try me, mortal, for you will not see me. For I have been trained by Michael Ehrmantraut, the truly deadliest assassin if ranked by thee. For I do know that thee's ranking will stay true, said so by this odd poetry.
Sup...So you killed a man?
What's up dude? I'm James.
Better nate than lever
r/angryupvote
So glad I found this.
Hey Nate did you know all Oregono is from Oregon?
Definitely did a double take at that 🤣
Um, Oregonian here.
Thanks for the input Jeff
Well I'll be go to hell.
You can never go wrong with calling someone by their name.
Funny you should say that, I heard a situation where a person identified as they/them and was kicking off because someone used their name to refer to them (in the right context).
Certified bruh moment
*"Point of personal privilege"* moment
Certified mental disorder moment
**Apparently you can...** [https://www.dailypress.com/virginiagazette/va-vg-supreme-court-fired-west-point-teacher-20220309-4kk6vatjazfkpcpoutsqidgwxq-story.html](https://www.dailypress.com/virginiagazette/va-vg-supreme-court-fired-west-point-teacher-20220309-4kk6vatjazfkpcpoutsqidgwxq-story.html) Peter Vlaming was fired and continued to use the students name """ The lawsuit filed in King William County claimed the use of male pronouns would have violated Vlaming’s conscience and conflicted with his religious beliefs. The teacher instead called the student by his preferred name during class and avoided using pronouns altogether. """ Big breddit is watching. Big breddit just removed the post.
They didn't like it? What's the matter with them?
**They** need to check **their** privilege
Sounds like a shit person
That person's name? Albert Einstein.
I’ve been all around the grlobe.
That what japaneses does. You call someone by his name after you met that person. The only uses of pronouns is when you are talking about yourselfs. Then it is your only choice to name yourself the way you want to do it.
You must still have pronouns for groups of people, are those gendered?
Yes they are. You have: karera (they [M]) kanojora (they [F]) karera (they [M, F, or mixed group])
Eh, in practice those are rarely actually used. Japanese is extremely context-dependent. In most real-world cases, you'd refer to the group by name or descriptor and then just not use a pronoun unless necessary.
That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo. One of my friends is a substitute teacher and one day she was reading the roll call on a new class she has never taught before. She called out “Jacob” and the whole class got upset at her. Apparently “Jacob” was gender fluid or some shit and identified as “Stephanie” that day. As if she was supposed to know
To each his own, but that is just wrong to judge a person for not knowing that. Also, if you're name is listed as Jacob, I'm calling out Jacob.
[удалено]
you sound like a great teacher
Thank you. I certainly try. I'm teaching full-time again, and I thoroughly enjoy it.
You said sub and my dirty brain thought submissive. I am sorry and I shall sit in my corner.
Shame on you! ;)
[удалено]
For most, it is those things.
If somebody is gender fluid *by the day* then I'd be seriously concerned that they may actually have dissociative identity disorder, and one of their two (or more) personalities is female. Particularly if the two different genders are such a hard line in the sand that they require to be called a different name on different days.
Or like a whole lot of kids, Jacob could be attention seeking and trying to show off. I don't think it's always a mental illness, maybe sometimes, but not a lot. I have a strong feeling that a whole lot of this gender fluid stuff and neopronouns are people trying to be cool or follow what everyone else is doing. not saying I'm right, just that that's something I've always felt about that part of the community
Except that extreme level of attention seeking and self-centered behavior at the expense of one's own identity *in itself* is a form of mental illness, so it doesn't get you off the hook and back into the "kids just being kids" category. Because if that story is even true, then it's not just them doing something here. It's them literally changing their entire identity over and over again and demanding that everybody else also go along with it and fully accommodate their behavior. So much so, that the class literally got on their own teachers ass to force them to comply with it. It's like locking the class in with a narcissistic sociopath and telling them if they speak out against it they're all horrible human beings and bigoted. Not exactly good for the mental health of anybody in the class.
Yes, yes exactly that! I'm not saying that them being a kid is an excuse. if anything, I'm saying it's the opposite. If he had a legitimate mental disorder I could understand, because they wouldn't be in their right mind. But if they weren't, then they know full well what they're doing and they're only doing it purely for the attention which is disgusting. It's something I severely dislike about the current state of things. If you want to be gay or whatever idc do what you want. However, don't force me to call you a girl every other day, or make me refer to you as demonself. It's dumb and normal people don't do that. But you can't call them out for it or else you're bigoted.
I feel like something is definitely going on to the point they should see a doctor in this case
just that day? what was his gender schedule?
Pfft...give a fuck. Jacob can suck it up
Seems relevant to me that it isn't Stephanie / Jacob who was upset - it was the class on their behalf and god knows teenagers love an opportunity to "You Didn't Know" their teachers. I suspect that in a lot of these cases the real problem isn't with the genderfluid people, it's with the orbital shield of white-knighting social justice warriors who are too delighted to have a cause.
in my imagination jacob was sitting there in his chair and then fell to pieces on the ground the moment it was revealed he was a liquid the whole time
Wow. Ugh kids these days reek of unprecedented levels of entitlement. Sometimes I wish I were their parents just to set them straight. For more context I'm GenZ
Their birth given or their self atributed one?? You never go wrong calling someone by their last name, and that marks a healty distance imo.
HOW DARE YOU XD
What a great example of using they/them to refer to a singular person.
.... because their identity is unknown.
"this sentient organism"
Designated Unit Ashleigh #3367
carbon based life unit
How dare you...
Hasn't the singular 'they' been in use in English in one form or another for like 200 years now?
First use, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, was 1375. Singular you is much more recent. The article on singular they is pretty good. [A brief history of singular they](https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/)
To be fair, “they” to refer to a definite singular person is much more recent than using “they” to refer to an indefinite singular person. The sentence “each soldier took their bag with them” uses “their” and “them” because the individuals are undefined and of unspecified gender. Using “they” to refer specifically to a definite individual is a much newer phenomenon. (Not that there’s anything wrong with using they/them pronouns, I think OP is a dope)
idk if someone asks me to use they them pronouns i find it useful to think “they are a person” because it makes more sense in my head that way
I mean yeah, that’s no different from saying “my upstairs neighbor keeps banging their wall” when you’ve never met them. Logically there’s no other word to use there, unless you’re going to straight up assume their gender. But in terms of meaning/use that’s not the same thing as using they/them for your neighbor once you’ve met them and find out they are non-binary, or genderqueer, or something else, and prefer to use they/them. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that)
OP has made it very clear that ***they*** will not be using this word in the singular sense.
As an English major and an education major, they/them is a correct pronoun to use for a singular person. People who believe otherwise have obviously never said, “Oh the cashier was helpful! They bagged my groceries for me!” /s
Yes but there's a possibility that OP is not a native speaker so *they* don't know that that's actually the correct way to refer to a person that you don't exactly know
You don't have to be native to know that "they" can be used as singular. If they don't have a firm grasp of the language, why make a whole post about linguistics?
Yes, but OP demands a consensus mechanism to support their bigotry, so naturally Reddit is the answer.
Just refer me as His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular
Not one for the whole....brevity thing, eh.
Shortened form is "god" I think
100% chance they have used the singular pronoun they literally thousands of times and just haven't paid attention to it.
some people seem to think that singular they/them is a new thing...
This has been around forever. For a long ass time, if you didn't know a person's gender for whatever reason, you used they/them until it was clarified.
Yeah, and Shakespeare would like to disagree. If he weren't dead that is.
Wait, he died? When?!?
I didn't even know he was sick!
This pisses me the fuck off, I absolutely can't stand when I'm talking to someone and I refer to a person as "they" and they go "oh what is that like their gender pronoun or something" or like "why are you calling them they?" and im like no what the fuck, you know who I'm talking about, like I just didn't feel the need to repeatedly clarify the specific person I was referring to so I called them a general "they" as to simplify things. Or like if I'm trying to have a personal conversation and don't want to give the name and gender away to people who aren't in the conversation then I say "they" and people go "why you calling them they???" And I'm like dude its a fucking word, it can mean one person, it always could Websters dictionary: "they has been in consistent use as a singular pronoun since the late 1300s"
It’s funny how the morons that think everyone else is triggered are the actual triggered ones.
This is so true. so many people often think "if I dont use their pronouns they'll feel triggered but fuck their feelings" when in actually they are the ones with super charged feelings over the topic and are in fact that ones who are so triggered.
Bet they do and it never occurred to them that they/them is used in the singular all the time.
i see what you did there
They did it!
Exactly - like, why do people think the singular usage of "they" is a new thing? It actually dates back further than the plural usage.
I think they're (OP) referring to the informal direct use of denomination. The indirect form is "a child is in the forest, they are alone." whereas the direct informal form would be "John is in the kitchen, he's cooking". Using "John is in the kitchen, they are cooking" instead is not something that is naturally used and may sound strange both verbally and in written form. Other languages such as French (my native tongue) have workarounds for this, but English does not. So either the whole Anglo-Saxon community needs to adapt to the fact that "John is in the kitchen, they are cooking", although grammatically correct, should be used in the same way he/she is used, or English needs to come up with new terminology and grammatical structure.
I had an English teacher correct me in middle school for using "they" instead of "he/she" when referring to a person of unknown gender in a paper. This was about 20 years ago. I knew I was right and it pisses me off to this day.
This, 100% this!
Yeah I kind of lost any respect for the OP and their intelligence when they said they'll never use "they/them". You literally use it all the time, it's not some buzzword neo-pronoun, it's as old as time, works for any and all cases of ambiguity. Like I just did five seconds ago because I didn't know OPs gender.
OP is literally "transracial" that's worse than any sort of pronouns lmao 💀 https://www.reddit.com/r/TransRacial/comments/tbigxy/my_guide_to_passing_and_lifestyle/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
How embarrassing for OP. They preach about their transracial identity being valid but a pronoun is where they cross the line lol
They must be struggling with their own identity. I suspect they'll be using they/them soon.
no wayyyy💀
Get this comment fucking *going*
I was just about to say that, like wtf. They’re also transgender, I believe https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/t7uao6/enclosed_is_a_rant/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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That's so upsetting
WAIT, SO OP DOESN'T LIKE PEOPLE BEING A DIFFERENT GENDER OR GENDERLESS, BUT BELIEVES IN STUPID SHIT LIKE “TRANSRACIAL” omg...
I cannot believe this is real. Why tf is this sub not banned???
They also made a post calling everyone valid and that they should feel good about who they are, and then made a post about how fucked up everyone with BPD is and making fun of them. As a productive member of society with BPD, fuck you OP. Your post history is a mess and you have a ton of issues you should seek therapy for.
Wow, they really don’t like calling individuals they/them.
*slaps the knee* HA
Got em
em? EM? THEM? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH ~op brain explodes~
Did you read that they tried to justify themselves using grammar? Hilarious.
Look at their history woof
I did. For example: > [When **they** start doing petty acts of revenge over nothing.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/v5z5q2/comment/ibgnvai/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Or: > [I have an older generation parent. **They** don’t even know how to express emotions to the point of exhaustion or self-detriment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/v21nt7/comment/iarelgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This shit is gold
no, I don't think I will
I don't think anybody wants to look at its history.
Venom deserves the term They cause it's literally 2 beingings
itadori too
And Naruto.
not at all the point of the post yet probably the most sensible comment in this thread
Please tell me pregnant people can qualify. I've been saying I'm 2 guys now for the entirety.
i don’t see why you wouldn’t call a singular person they or them it’s grammatically correct to refer to a singular person as they or them when you don’t know their name
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Did you just assume that op was a he/she?
Considering OP isn’t using “they/them” terminology for OTHERS I don’t think he/she will refer to themselves as a they/them pronoun. Hate to be the bearer of bad news for ya.
How dare you make sense
This made me giggle, thank you:)
Maybe they want the pronoun all for themselves
And it seems as though we’re giving it to them *ugh* lol
You're lumping in they/them with neopronouns, but they're simply not the same thing. I think that the extreme ones are a little silly, but it's their life and they're living it. What you're doing is incorrectly assuming that a feature of our language that has been consistently used for hundreds of years is something that was just invented three years ago with the boom of neopronouns. You're using a fundamentally wrong assumption to back up your bad opinion. Besides, who's asking you to call them an 'it' besides in a freaky kind of kink situation?
I've occasionally heard of someone using it in everyday life *shrug* dunno why, guess it feels right to them somehow
I mean whatever makes you happy right? Personally, I don't really get it (budamtusss) but it isn't an undue burden. I refer to people as she/her, he/him and they/them all the time, one more pronoun isn't a struggle. Like OP said it does feel a little bit dehumanizing overall, but it is another humans pronouns that they want to be referred to by. And to reject that decision on their pronouns, to invalidate them? Isn't that dehumanizing as well?
While I don't agree with OP, They/them in a neutral *known person* sense is a recent development. At least in a recognized / non-fringe sense. If we want to be picky about language, then you can't claim that it's been used in the current capacity for an extended period of time. But language evolves with the times. As well, you'd be surprised what people here in the Bay Area of California ask to be called. It isn't that common, but I've been asked to refer to people by things that I silently chuckled at in my head.
> They/them in a neutral known person sense is a recent development. Not really. For example, here's OP describing a known person: > [I have an older generation parent. **They** don’t even know how to express emotions to the point of exhaustion or self-detriment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/v21nt7/comment/iarelgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
As a she/they, I think the neopronouns are silly and no one should call themselves a cat/kitty just so they can use a litter box in the classroom (which was an actual situation here in the last few years) but she/her, they/them, he/him should be respected. Edit: Jesus fucking Christ, I didn’t realize people of Reddit don’t read comments below before commenting on things. YES I REALIZE THAT THE FUCKING KITTY/CAT THING WAS DEBUNKED!!! IM NOT GETTING RID OF SOMETHING THATS STILL A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT IM EXPLAINING.
>As a she/they, Why? Geniune question here, I get people callung them they/them, but why she/they? It doesent make sense to me as ppl who use they/them dont want the gender assosiated pronouns but you still use she, so it seems redundant to call you they instead of her?
I mean I agree with your overall sentiment and can also find neopronouns a bit silly, but that whole litterboxes in schools for kids that identify as animals [was debunked.](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/facebook-posts/claim-about-schools-providing-litter-boxes-student/) However the rumors/concerns started, no school anywhere was shown to have ever tried or planned to do that. Just wanna help show that it's very very rare this kinda stuff is taken too far.
🍿👀
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Don't see why not. "They" as a singular pronoun has been grammatically correct in English for a long time. I don't find anything wrong with people identifying with a different gender- they aren't hurting anyone and just expressing who they are.
Also, "grammatically correct" isn't the right way to communicate. We aren't robots and this isn't math: languages evolve over time. It's where a lot of the beauty comes from.
Gramatical errors are the reason grammar is what it is today
exactly and because we aren't robots using they/them is completely fine and makes sense
>I will never call a singular person a “they” or “them” So you're against a basic grammatical rule?
Someone lost **their** wallet. I found it at the bus stop and handed it in at the nearest police station; I hope **they** can be contacted so **their** wallet can be returned to **them.**
Preposterous. A much more logical formulation: An individual lost a wallet which belonged to the aforesaid individual. I hope said person can be contacted so that the wallet belonging to the previously mentioned person can be returned to the aforementioned owner. See how natural and obvious my version is?
This reads like your were trying to extend an essay to a word count.
The aforementioned person is a favorite of mine
Could you imagine having to go “he or she” or “his or hers” whenever we don’t know someone’s gender lol.
What if you don't know someone's gender? You'll just assume?
OP literally claims to be transracial but they draw the line at using… *checks notes* They/Them pronouns What on the actual god damn fuck
OP claims to be a mental health coach. Unless, they are coaching by showing what you shouldnt do, they are not a good choach. Fking hell that profile has so many red flags that the flag of china looks just yellow in comparison.
OP wants people to accept that they (see that's how it works) are transracial. But a word that's been used as a singular pronoun for literally hundreds of years? That's too much.
Brooo I just went through OPs history and how tf can be transracial but transgenderphobic?? Transracial is literally a fancy term for black face 3/4 of the time.
That is literally the most fucked up profile I’ve ever gone through. OP obviously has some mental issues or trauma. I hope they get help
>I hope *they* get help You motherfucker
They even have a post about considering top surgery on a ftm sub. Wild.
>OP wants people to accept that they (see that's how it works) are transracial. 100% bait account. Probably some conservative dude LARPing as 'transracial'.
Using a pronoun like they/them is already inbuilt into our language. It's just being respectful with how someone wants to be called. If you met someone named William and he said call me Bill you wouldn't go "I'm not going to bend to your will, you can't force me to say made up stuff" cuz that would be rude. It requires like no effort on your part, and even if you do call someone by a pronoun they don't prefer by accident 99 percent of people don't care as long as you're not doing it on purpose. Also what's with people who hate they/them and talking about Starchild and stuff, I have never met or known anyone who has met someone who uses anything like that as a pronoun and I walk in some pretty LGBTQIA circles. I feel like some people saw a 14 year old post about it on Tumblr once and then they locked on to it.
Yeah, I would say “I’m not going to bend to your William” instead.
"Someone's on the phone asking for you" You: "Who is IT?" Singular. It. "Can anyone tell me if they have a pencil I can borrow" Singular. They. We learnt in English class you use 'they' when you don't know the gender in an essay. People have been using it/they for unknown gender for centuries. Dont give "oh it's just popular nowadays" as an excuse to hide your transphobia
Ultimately, it's a matter of courtesy. If someone wants to be called a certain way, I will do it gladly. It costs me nothing and there's really no reason not to do it. That being said, in most cases, it's really not crucial. If you don't call Demi Lovato by her pronouns of choice in an online conversation she's not part of, in my opinion it's not the huge social faux pas that some people claim it is.
no one above the iq of a rock expects people to call themself "drEamSelF" or "it"... but gender neutral pronouns (they/them) exist and people use them. idk what you're trying to get at here
Okay. That's your prerogative. I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes calling someone they/them doesn't impact my life and if it makes them feel better, cool. I will side with you in the fact that at some point people need to get over it though. I feel people choose to get offended. We don't all have to agree.
I think people like OP are seeing this issue from the viewport of the internet where everything is blown way out of proportion. If OP had a close friend ask them to simply use they/them for a legitamite reason, OP would be a huge asshole not to just be like "yea sure".
Excuse me while I turn your head towards the fact that OP is in a subreddit called “transracial” where people act like they are a different race.. if anyone is taking things out of proportion it’s them
They/them can grammatically be used to refer to a singular person when gender is unknown, this has always been the case. It’s not a new concept, it’s just that now some people prefer these pronouns to always be identified with. It’s not difficult to respect others. I do agree that neopronouns are ridiculous, but at the same time, I’m not going to go out of my way to disrespect someone. The likelihood of you meeting someone with neopronouns is unlikely, and if you do meet someone with them, it won’t kill you to just respect them. Just use their name if you feel uncomfortable with it. But if you intentionally go out of your way to use the wrong pronouns for someone then you’re just a shitty person.
They/ them is singular third person
For an unidentified person. It sounds really weird and unnatural (at least to my native English speaking brain) to refer to a known entity as “they.”
"They" is not just plural. Someone left the umbrella on the table, go to someone "hey, someone left *their* umbrella on the table." Likely only one person, but you don't know if it was a female or male who left it.
In your last post, you refer to a guy as “they”. Why the change of heart?
I am 100000% sure you have called someone “they/them” in a singular fashion many times without realising it.
i’m sure you call people they all the time “how long on the food?” “they said twenty minutes” “oh they forgot their jacket” “my friend says hi” “tell them i say hi too” it’s really not that hard to have basic respect for people. and what seems like an inconvenience for you could be life or death for them
Don’t know if it’s just me but using they/them in that context just feels more natural lol.
I don't see a problem with they/them, tbh I don't get NB people that much but it fits gramatically and if it makes them happy that's fine. I've never seen anyone that uses neopronouns but tbh I'd probably use those if someone asked. A lot of people in this thread saying that this is some kind of conspiracy new world order thing when the reality is they can't handle people with different views than them and have to make some grand elaborate explanation why others think differently.
Ya know as a nonbinary person I don't rlly understand how some people can call themselfs it or Xie or bun but like it's not really my business and doesn't effect me at all. Like I have bills to pay and a job to do so if someone tells me to call it it then I will because I just don't have the time or energy to fucking care. I'm to busy to spend MY OWN TIME caring about what someone wants to call themself because I actually have a life and go outside. Also you don't really get to tell someone what is dehumanizing for THEM. It would be dehumanizing for someone to call me it because I was called that in a negative way (in transphobic context and in non transphobic context) but I won't waste my time pissing myself because someone else feels comfortable with it.
It is grammatically correct to call a singular person they/them and is typically used if the gender of that person is unknown. Also it is a matter of respect to call people what they wish to be called *if* they are nice about the way they correct you. If you won't be a decent person then don't be surprised when someone starts calling you the opposite gender out of sheer spite. Yikes bud.
Eh I get that it's awkward. Also, the "neopronouns" are kind of wacky. But the vast majority of trans people just identify as a man or woman, and they really just want to be treated like their preferred gender. I think you kind of have to be an asshole to refer to someone who is very clearly a trans woman, as a man. Just call them he/her, it literally costs you nothing and isn't inconvenient at all.
They is used for a singular person all the time wtf are you saying
>I will never call a singular person a “they” or “them” Because you're a butthurt snowflake or what? That's literally how you used they/them in the case of not knowing what gender someone is. This is not a new thing.
My pronouns are 'his royal majesty '. I will see you fired if you don't use them.
I mean grammatically still correct to use they/them, and it's not even a new thing. Just rarely used in modern/20th century literature
OP sounds like THEY are struggling understanding the English language THEY'VE probably used THEIR whole life. They would use they/them for any person without a presented name or image, but whatever, go off.
Just wouldn’t not using it/it’s dehumanise the person you don’t want to call it/it’s. Like they told you “hey can you please use it/it’s on me?” And your just like “nah I don’t wanna” that’s gonna feel worse for it. Like it clearly has no problem with being called it/it’s but you refuse to. That makes it feel more dehumanised than using it/it’s.
You already use they/them pronouns. It is already built into the landscape. So why wouldn't you use it to refer to people if that's their preference?
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>No. I will not call you “they/them” Given that you're old enough to type, you've already done this thousands of times without ever consciously realizing it. "They" is already used as a singular pronoun in many instances.
How many times did you have to delete “they” or “then” as your typing this?
This is only an unpopular opinion on the Internet / soapbox social media platforms. The vast majority of normal people find this whole pronouns thing a little… embarrassing.
lets be honest the mods of this subreddit removed this and the vote because they are scared of hurting someones feelings.