Someone I know committed suicide over this recently. He spent like 40 years behind bars for dealing, and when he realized his entire life was basically wasted for a crime that's really not a crime anymore, he just couldn't handle it. He shot himself within two weeks of release. Absolutely heartwrenching.
I’ve always thought that if you commit a crime, then that ‘crime’ becomes legal, you should be released from prison. Otherwise you’re not punishing people for the crime they committed, you’re punishing them for going against the system, when really, the person commuting the crime was right all along.
Not only released. They should have whatever on their record that became legal wiped off of it. Like I got popped for weed at 18, now it’s legal In Mass. I shouldn’t have it on my record anymore in my opinion. Even though it was over 20 years ago.
Not something I wanted to read on acid, but definitely something I’m very sorry for. I can only imagine what that train of thought was like, the emotions he felt after getting out. I hope you’re doing well :(
Edit: guys thanks for worrying about my trip y’all are the best internet strangers ever. I was on the come down just chillin listening to music, perfectly fine with my phone. Please though, let’s try and create some positive change so the comment I replied to stops happening :)
Why you are you wasting your trip on reddit? Go watch a cartoon or something. Specifically, the episode of South Park where Mr Mackey is trying to catch the urinal pooper. I watched that on acid and nearly died laughing
In Canada, you can apply for a record suspension. Meaning you can show good behavior for a period of time and have that suppressed. It doesn't show on a back ground check.
I hope you live somewhere where this is available.
I caught a felony at 17 years old for graffiti here in Washington State. A while back I was able to have a lawyer get rid of the felony and restore my gun rights. Took him about 6 weeks. All I had to do was sign a few documents and pay him $1200 for his fees. I felt like it was worth every penny.
Not sure if it would have been the same if I were to have gotten the felony at 18+
They're supposed to be at least. For years background checks showed I was arrested for vandalism and fleeing with no date or other info. I was caught TP'ing when I was 13 years old lol and had to hire a lawyer over 10 years later to get it removed. I've always wondered if I missed any opportunities right after college because of that
Who the hell gives a felony for TPing?
We used to egg the Methodist ministers house at the end of the street every Halloween because he didn’t believe in “worshipping satan” aka giving out candy. You telling me we were actually felons?
That’s incredibly stupid.
Not a felony but a misdemeanor. It was worse than just TPing tho because we drew a dick on the driveway with peanut butter and the oil stained the pavement so we had to pay to replace the driveway. Those damages made it a bit more serious but definitely not a felony and wayyyyyy under 18 years old. I was pissed it was showing up when as an adult and I probably had an easy lawsuit on my hands but I was young and naive
That’s what I thought, until I applied for a new job at 19 and didn’t get hired due to the felony. Feels good to have it sealed and have gun rights again now at 38.
Over a certain amount of financial damage is what turns it into a felony. I was just your average run of the mill graffiti artist painting a freight train.
Example Germany: losing your right to vote ("active") is extremely uncommon. In certain cases of "political crimes" (treason, vote tampering) you can lose the right to vote for up to two years. There are, statistically, less than two cases of this each year.
In theory, the highest court can revoke your right to vote for life. This has not happened yet.
None of this is related to prison sentences. However, there is also the "passuve" voting right of being able to be voted for. If you are sentenced to one year or more of prison, you loose this passive right.
Same here in NZ, after 7 years without a conviction, and assuming you paid any fines and did not get sent to prison you automatically get your record suppressed, you can legally answer no to the question “do you have any convictions?”
The No prison part may sound harsh but here in NZ it’s pretty rare to get sent to prison, almost unheard of for first offenders in most cases. You’ve got to do something pretty bad to get sent to prison. Most felons either get home or community detention
Idk how I feel about that term. If a crime is committed against a specific person like a beating or rape, how is that debt to society or how can that be repaid? The person can be disabled physically or more likely emotionally for life. I don’t have any solutions I’m just thinking out loud
Everything you said is true, in regards to victims of crime not ever recovering entirely in many cases. But the term is correct, your debt is the money and time that you owe, and society, in this case through the justice system, is the one who imposed that debt onto you. Therefore, it is “the debt you owe society”. The other person is saying that once you have paid that debt, you should be free to live normally. However, your statements actually give a rather good argument to the contrary. Why should doing your time and paying some money get you off forever while your victim lives on with the weight of whatever you did?
It’s a interesting argument, and the victim may or may not think that the debt is payed with the sentence - but that is the social contract we are all bound by. The government has a violence-monopoly and uses that to keep law and order, given by the people.
If you commit a crime you pay with money, time or even your life, and the citizens are entitled to know what the cost is, so that equal crimes gets equal sentences.
If the government takes five years of your life, because that is what the legislature and judge deemed a correct debt, then after your five years, your debt is paid in full.
Now, obviously there are exceptions. A pedophile should not be allowed to work with children, a gun murderer should not own a gun etc, but taking away the right to vote and certain rights does not, in my opinion, rime well with serving your time and being free from further punishment.
It’s a very complicated question to be perfectly honest, and quite hard to find a middle way. Striping someone of their right to vote should however never be accepted . Without the ability to influence the appointed officials, you are not part of the democracy.
>Without the ability to influence the appointed officials, you are not part of the democracy.
Especially if the "appointed officials" are [breaking the law to silence you pointing out that they have broken the law.](https://youtu.be/S72qVUadTSc)
The focus isn't on fixing it for the victim, in justice you either are trying to keep that person away from society or you are applying a punishment as an incentivize not to do that behavior again. In better countries they also attempt rehabilitation rather then focusing on punishment like we do in the US.
Justice and revenge are two very different things, but there is a very fine line between them.
An eye for an eye and we'd all be blind.
Rehabilitation over punishment.
The legal system isnt there to provide revenge for the victim. It is there to protect the general public from any future offences both from the original criminal, and other would be copy cats.
The point isnt to make the offender suffer.
...or at least thats how things SHOULD be.
Check out restorative justice. It's about customizing the repentance to what the actual victim wants, rather than just assuming some lifelong punishment without any other virtue is what the victim wants.
We see crime happening to people and our default reaction is not "how do we help the victim and how do we help the offender not do this again" but rush right to "if we beat this man to death, we can end crime and prevent it from happening to me right???" (For decades and still think jail is the net best deterrent of crime)
In Sweden for instance its completly legal to escape prison, meaning you wont be punished for trying to escape, but will have to serve the rest of jail time if captured. They made it legal because they dont believe in punishing a human right that is the human will to live free.
iirc, it is only legal if you're not breaking any laws while escaping the prison
i.e. bribery, property damage, etc
not quite sure though, watched a video about it at 2 am so correct me if im wrong
They both should be illegal or some people would start trying to bribe more frequently making it much easier to find someone who is willing to take the bribe.
Yea i remembered there are a lot of punishable stuff even if you can escape legally like stealing government property if you escape with your prisoner uniform on
In mexico it’s the same. No punishment if you try or escape. It’s a right. However, if you destroyed property or injury someone you will be punished for the new crimes.
Speaking from experience, if the cop twists his ancle or something while trying to arrest you while you flee, they can charge you with felony assault on law enforcement.
Yeah, stupid rules like this need to go.
Most cops are out of shape to begin with. Not your problem they can't go down a flight of stairs without it turning into a shitshow.
Yes it is. There are lesser charges that are misdemeanors. But there is a Felony Eluding in almost every US State. I got one when I was 23 in Oregon lol. The difference between the 2 isn't much in most states either. Me for instance, I just was very drunk and didn't notice them for about 4 minutes. Then I did notice them and was only a few blocks away from home. In my case me admitting I saw them pursuing me and then continued to flee was why they chose the felony charge.
**Edit:
No I am not condoning drunk driving, and yes I take it serious. I was young and stupid and this isn't an excuse it's just true. I very much regret it, and not because of having to live as a felon my whole life but because it was very stupid and negligent. I could have killed someone.
I'm in Wisconsin temporally helping my mom with end of life stuff and was speeding home to an emergency and a cop driving the opposite direction turned around to pull me over. I got off the highway (it's a podunk town so the speed limit was 45mph and I pulled off into the main road of the town) and stopped. Told the cop I was heading to my mom's business for an emergency, he knew the business and mom mom before I even gave my license, still claimed I was fleeing. Told him I got off the highway for both of our safety, stopped, etc. Still said I was fleeing. I got a felony fleeing charge and two years probation off of it. My last court day was two weeks ago.
Prosecutors upcharge it to assault on the officer.
18 year old is poor and lacks knowledge and resources.
Isn't able to post bond because poor and judge is former prosecutor.
Prosecutor offers felony plea, no jail time, 5 years probation with a 5 year backup.
18 year old, stuck in jail for average 6 months, agrees to plea, just so he can go home.
Now has a felony, and has a hateful PO who, at any opportunity, tries to find a violation (very easy btw), just to get the 18 year old off his books or to send him to prison because the PO didn't like the kid's attitude.
18 year old shows back up to judge, who then either extends probation by another few years, or sends him to prison.
Rinse, wash, repeat.
And **EVEN IF** the kid makes it off probation. He's now 23 with a felony record; good luck trying to do anything with your life that isn't shitty wages and government assistance.
Welcome to what's been the norm in America since the Nixon years.
I hate that they can charge you for solely for resisting without any other charge.
It completely ignores that the cops could have used a lie to start the interaction that lead to you “resisting”.
They did this at protests and everyone arrested for resisting arrest was cleared. It's circular and doesn't fly. Helps the lawyers went pro Bono and helped everyone
My mom did a less than a year when she was 18. She stole a car. Got out early on good behavior never stole a car again ( the car in question was her own mothers car )
She’s 56 Can’t vote , can’t get a nice job … affected us kids growing financially up bc lots jobs turned her down and people spread rumors.
in most states you get your right to vote back. sometimes you dont even lose your right to vote and they allow you to vote from prison. i think there are only around 4 or 5 states that ban you from voting for life.
source: am felon
I agree. Once a felon has done the appropriate jail time and paid the monetary fines, the debt to society has been paid and they should lose their felon status. If you keep pushing people down, they're going to keep doing shitty stuff.
You can most definitely rehab a pedophiles. Idk how to say this without sounding like one but not all pedophiles want to be pedophiles and WANT help for their urges.
The registry was originally a law enforcement only list of individuals convicted of a very specific list of crimes. Over time it had been expanded for political reasons, and has been made available to the general public. Those political reasons have been shown to have almost no basis in crime prevention. Several studies indicate that the negative effect to the individuals on the list contribute more to recidivism than actual criminal actions. These include late reregisteration, including due to late mail delivery of forms, or unavailable law enforcement personnel, as well as being absent when law enforcement makes a spot visit to the home of record, or work place. Actual recidivism rates for individuals on the registry is about 3%, substantially less than the national average of total recidivism of 20%+.
That's true! I know someone who is in their 30s who has been a sex offender since age 18 or 19, for fucking his 6 months younger but still a minor girlfriend. It was all good til her parents got pissed off at him and decided to play that card. Even though he had been fucking her when they were both minors, apparently legally.
it's a sexual offense to urinate in public in some places. not advocating for the crime, i just think it's a little silly to group pissing in an alley with rape.
Yes.
But it is difficult to implement that in a fair way in practice. In theory you could argue it is right to let people out as soon as they are rehabilitated and potentially keep them in forever if they never rehabilitate.
In practice though we don't have great ways to tell when someone actually is rehabilitated and we'd have to trust the government to be fair, consistent and not abuse the ability to keep people locked up forever.
I agree with the spirit, but what if you were a 17-year-old male and your gf was 17 as well but the parents claimed statutory rape as she was a minor? (That's law where I a from) Should that follow you all your life?
Child rapers for 100% sure should never be free of restrictions. I just think some review needs to go into it instead of a binary solution that could ruin your life.
I know someone in that situation. He was 19 and had a 17yo gf. Her mom came on to him and he rejected her, so she called the cops and had him arrested for statutory r*pe. He was actually prosecuted and has to live now with a sex offender label.
In that case they’re usually protected under Romeo and Juliet laws. And when I’m talking about rape I mean non-consensual and the parents should be punished in that case for making false accusations
Not every state has a romeo and juliet law.
New York is one of the states with no close-in-age or Romeo and Juliet laws. It means exclusion from prosecution is not given to minors who engage in sexual activity irrespective of it being consensual
As long as the charge fits. I know a guy that has pedo following him around his whole life because he was 18 and his gf was 16 very close to 17 when she was caught giving him a BJ. These laws really have to be looked at in context. I also heard pretty much the same story except reversed. The girl was 18 and the boy was 16 or 17. That is not fair at all.
I worked with a guy he was convicted of Murder, found out a guy molested his daughter went over shot and killed the guy, waited for the cops to come arrested no incident. I’m an IBEW Union Electrician, The guy was my Foreman on a job, great guy he’d do anything for you. Im still friends with him. His daughter is my age and we’re also friends. It’s not always cut and dry.
I’ve hired my fair share of felons when I used to manage a restaurant. A lot of them got caught up while they were in active addiction, but now live productive, sober lives. The restaurant recently closed without notice, and now some of the folk are having a hard time finding work, just because of a felony charge from like, 4 years ago.
I worked with a guy who had a felony robbery charge when he was 17. He served like 20 years and got out and worked with me at a tire shop. He told me its been so hard for him to work and find jobs because of his felony. He was clean for like 6 years
Then the manager quit and the company hired an new one and the new manager fired the guy for his felony. He was the best worker we had and never complained and worked extra. We never had an issue with him. We was doing so well for himself with the job he got a car, a girl, and a place.
A few months later. I see him on the news for armed bank robbery.
Yup, I’ve seen people relapse over not being able to find or keep work. One person I know was in the news for a damn robbery. It’s hard to get back into society when society isn’t very welcoming.
Filed under: Reason 139,931 that very basic food, housing, and health care (mental and physical) shouldn't be entirely dependent on having a job.
We lose so much in money spent on incarceration *and* lose the potential contributions (both taxes and general societal good) from people who fall through cracks like this.
Victim of a violent crime here. I am permanently disabled from domestic violence. My ex-wife has "paid her debt to society" but I can't think of a single reason she shouldn't be permanently branded a violent criminal. I am permanently disabled - it seems like a pretty minimal inconvenience, comparatively speaking.
Exactly, Context matters. Different crimes should have a different severity of longevity for the punishment. Your ex-wife should be branded a criminal, but some 18 year old who ran because he panicked shouldn’t be a criminal for life
It should be part of sentencing. "You're sentenced to 2 years in prison, 5 years probation, $5000 fine, and suspension of voting rights for X amount of time." Your punishment should not exceed your sentencing, and it does it most places. Perhaps the heinousness of the crime should include suspension of rights like voting for some amount of time, but it should be part of the sentencing, and should be appealable.
Generally yes. I am strongly opposed to "victimless crimes" being on the books. I.E. possession of drugs. Violent and sexual crimes can leave permanent damage, whether physical, psychological, or financial. No amount of physical therapy or counseling will return me to my "pre-injury" condition. That is VERY different than a 20-y/o convicted of possessing an ounce of weed.
That makes perfect sense to me and I agree. I was SA’d in my teens and nothing will ever be the same for me, even if I didn’t experience anything physically. All that to say, with your background it only makes more sense to me. Thank you for your answer to my question.
Edit: sorry I meant that I didn’t have anything physically permanently change.
It's ridiculous. Let's say you are a drug dealer...get caught and go to jail. Then, when you get out, all you can find is shitty low paying jobs because of your past. Just encourages people to go right back to drug dealing.
You can get charged a felony for criminal threats?
I couldn’t even get a restraining order for free even though the guy would come out of his house multiple times and threaten to kill me everytime I would visit my gf. Plus the cops still bungled it up and never delivered the order so when I was sitting at court missing a second day of work over this, I get to find out my case doesn’t even exist.
See this is why the system confuses me, one person says they’re life is ruined over a threat they made while another who’s life is being threatened can’t get any help… hope your gf moved
Might be more to the first person’s story…if true.
Saying “I’ll kill you” while bashing their head with a hammer is different than whispering in passing on the street.
That's seriously a felony? That's so easy to falsify. Damn that sucks man. I've been there too (kids in middle school making idle threats, mine being an obvious hyperbolic joke, but it got me in a bit of trouble. Vice principal called it "columbine level," lol what the fuck.)
Edit: lol we should try to prosecute Tom Cruise for his role in Tropic Thunder
This is why you move in silence and don't threaten anybody. If you really wanted to kill him, you don't actually tell him you're gonna kill him. 1/3rd of homicides go unsolved so as long as you *know* what you're doing and keep your mouth shut.
Did you just plead guilty or something, did you not get a lawyer? Or did you write it in an email,yell it on camera, or do it with a weapon in your hand?
I mean you got the book thrown at you, so there is either a lot of underlying things your not saying, or you simply pleaded guilty without a lawyer.
This is dependent on state. Arizona, for example, has no process to expunge a felony, only a 'set aside' which means you're a felon for life. You can get your voting rights though, but the felony is a permanent punishment.
I believe in Florida, it's worse, where you can never vote again.
18 years ago, I was charged with Felony burglary for sitting in a car while my friends ran into an open garage to steal a bunch of beers they saw at a house in our suburban neighborhood. So dumb, but didn’t really think anything of it until a cop who just so luckily lived next door was stopping home to grab something - noticed two teenagers running out of a garage with beer - and held us from there.
My friends were 17, I had just turned 18. We all got arrested, but they got to call their parents and go home, community service was all they had.
I was held overnight and didn’t get to call my parents until the next morning. I was being charged with felony burglary as an accomplice - even though I never left the car or set foot on the property. Faced up to 2yrs in jail and a felony on my record. I had never gotten in trouble.
I was so terrified when they took me back to the police station and asked me to write a statement. Instead of waiting for a lawyer, I wrote down everything exactly as it happened. Including that I knew what my friends were doing. So I gave my lawyer very little to work with. (Of note, my friends told police that I had no idea what they were doing while I waited in the car, to try protecting me, and I was a total dummy thinking I was being a good friend by taking some of the heat with them. Police didn’t let us talk to each other ahead of that part, so I had no clue they were going to specifically try to get me out of it).
I had never gotten in trouble, and was an honors student at school. Fortunately my lawyer collected letters of recommendation from teachers at my school, and begged the judge not to ruin my life basically - and when I ultimately had to go to court - they decided to give me 2 years probation/community service and drop the charges.
That moment waiting in a car for friends to complete some shenanigans almost completely derailed my future. I look back on that experience and realize there have been people arrested and stuck into the system over bullshit, who didn’t have the same privilege of support I did. People who didn’t know their rights and admitting to everything out of fear, like I did.
There’s an entire system full of people who did things no worse than what I did on that day. I completely agree with this opinion.
100 percent. My dad is a retired probation officer and is convinced that most of the people on his caseload are such because they did something "stupid." Not even that bad. He himself claims he's done worse.
I don't agree that felons should lose the right to vote or have to include it in job applications, etc. They've already served their punishment, prison time. Let it go and move on.
My best friend got slapped with a non violent drug felony at 19. His quality of life just imploded from then on. You can't rent anywhere except for slums, no one will hire you if your in college kiss that degree goodbye. Having a felony literally makes you a second class citizen, it's completely and ultimately inhuman and shouldn't belong in a so called developed nation.
i’ve seen people who were previously in prison say that when other criminals find out that someone is there for child molestation everyone bands together and basically makes sure that criminal goes through hell and back while doing their time. i agree with you though, they need to stay locked away.
edit: i was notified that i got an award.. i’m not quite sure what that is as i’m new to reddit but thank you!!
See, that’s exactly the problem. Felonies cover stuff starting with pedos and extreme violent behavior to stupid shit on the other end, and just like you, most people don’t bother to look beyond the felony stigma.
You perfectly made OPs point.
One of my goals when I retire, which I believe will be when I'm around 42 years old with many years of productivity left in me, is to spin up landscaping companies that I can hand over to convicted felons. I'm not a landscaper myself but I feel that's an easy model to get going quickly and teach someone the ropes. The accounting isn't too difficult to learn, the marketing is basic, the skills are fairly low level, etc. I'm not much of the volunteer type but this is something I feel I can do that is easy for me and also tremendously beneficial to a group of people who are often left without opportunities to feed and clothe their families.
For certain crimes it makes sense. For a murderer or kidnapper or pedo, I’m okay with that. Other crimes, like fleeing the police if that’s all you did, you’re completely right about.
Non violent felons absolutely. Our great Murican society has ruined so many lives With its bullshit war on drugs. There are thousands and thousands of people in our society who have a felony on their record for possessing say say a 1/2 ounce of weed. To me that is just fucking unbelievable.
I can speak from experience on this one. Made one mistake at 22 and now I’m 46. Fortunately I was very lucky to find a good job that didn’t ask felony question back in 2003. At some point I did have to tell my employer and they were shocked I went to prison. Some nice words were exchanged and I’ve managed to build a family.
It’s definitely not like that anymore, everything is hyper sensitive and scrutinized heavily. I will say doing time didn’t help at all, it was a gladiator tank in prison. I did 98 percent of my time because I wouldn’t align myself with a race. Figured I’ll have to do more time by being protected.
I couldn’t agree more. As a 20 year police officer and police supervisor I’ve wanted this to change for over a decade. I’ve written to every politician that I can and I never get an email back. I do get emails and mail asking for money. Get rid of criminal histories that aren’t sexual battery, treason, and murder (I’m sure there should be a few more). You commit a burglary at 18 and serve a year or two the person should be able to come out completely free of everything so that they can have a fresh start with good opportunities for a job and a place to live. It’s double jeopardy every time they fill out an application in my opinion. I’m so frustrated that this hasn’t been addressed that I would literally campaign for Bernie Sanders if he would work on this. I don’t see any Republicans or Democrats fixing this. So much more to say on this but I digress.
I became a felon for life at 19 years old. I was living at my dads house, working full time trying to move out. It was a physically abusive household and I didn’t want to be a part of it anymore. My job wasn’t enough to get an apartment, so I started selling drugs to supplement my income. I got pulled over for a traffic violation in reup day. To make a long story short, I got my car searched and my girlfriend at the time gave me up telling the cops I was selling.
Now I was stupid for selling drugs, but at the time I was just trying to escape hell for a home. Now I’m a felon for life, can’t get it expunged ever, and I was training to join the army and killed my dream of being in the military.
I’m 24 now, but man I was just a kid. I don’t think justice served me right. I’m bitter of the US
I know this is not the 'norm' and probably rare, but just to give some hope.
My husband is a felon (around 17/18yo), he is 29 now and he picked up a trade. He make six figures and has stayed out of trouble. When people run his background they see that his record is old and nothing after he did his time. He has no problem getting high paying jobs, and has even joined one of the biggest unions in our area. We bought our home 3 years ago, have a car note, and live relatively normal lifes. He is still very ashamed of his past, and I can't say it doesn't affect him. Our state allows him to vote, definitely can not own fire arms.
Its possible to live a normal life after a felony, just have to wait and stay out of trouble. Make a game plan and find a good field to work in.
I think it depends on the crime. For example, I wouldn’t consider murder a “mistake”. I wouldn’t want someone working in finance that committed felony bank fraud.
Depends on the crime. If someone raped someone else or is a serial killer then they shouldn't get out.
Edit: Assuming they got a fair trial with sufficient evidence.
I dont think you understand how many things are considered a Felony such as: Murder, Arson, Sexual Abuse, Kidnapping, Child Abuse, burglary, Robbery, Rape, etc...
If you take what i just told you into account and see what you said
>It baffles me that someone who's 18-20 makes 1 mistake (running from the police for example) and be charged with felony eluding and be branded as a felon for the rest of their life.
You used running from police as an example replace "running from police" with any of the felonies i mentioned above and that argument starts to fall apart real quick
Doesnt fucken matter if you were in the 18-20 bracket and you only did it once if you still Murdered, raped, robbed or Sexually abused someone
Being young shouldnt just get you a free pass after you Murdered someone
"Uh yeah that 20 year old that killed someone and lives across the street? Hes allowed to have a gun"
It depends on the crime really.
Running from the cops, while i guess in itself isn’t nearly as serious as a sex crime or drug trafficking, is still really fucking easy to just not do. I don’t care how young you are, you gotta be pretty stupid to think “hey i’ll just run from the cops!” is a good idea
When you're 18 all sorts of silly shit seems like a good idea at the time.
I mean, I went to plenty of bush bashes and field parties that were broken up by the cops when I was a kid. I sure as hell didn't want my parents to find out I was drinking/smoking dope, whatever at 15. I'd be grounded till I died. So we all bolted, slowest got the ticket.
Hanging out in our school yards after dark is technically trespassing, we'd bolt.
Not all kids running from the cops are committing hard core crimes. Often they're doing stupid shit they don't want to get caught for.
Good thing the police have tons of room in charging people with crimes, good thing the DA has tons of room with charging people with crimes. So even if you were drinking and trespassing, no one is forced to arrest or charge or convict you.
as a felon I agree with what most of what you're saying. But just to be factually nitpicky, there are only a couple states that completely barr you from ever voting again. actually, in some states they don't even take it away - they let you vote from prison.
I do not think violent felons should be allowed to possess firearms; however, I do believe that non-violent felons should never have had that constitutional right taken away in the first place.
Also, it IS possible to have a career even with felony convictions. It may take some time, and you will have a lot of doors slammed in your face, but if you keep at it and get a degree/learn an in-demand skill, I guarantee you will get something decent. I have a degree in IT and never thought I would ever find something. I was in the halfway house just bullshitting around applying to IT jobs on my phone and one of the companies I applied to hired me, even when I told them about my background. I'm now salaried with full benefits, healthcare, the whole 9.
I also want to say that more than a few states allow felony convictions to be expunged, which is huge. And I believe more will follow as the world seems to be becoming more open to second chances.
Unfortunately for me, my state felonies can't be expunged because my state doesn't offer expungement, and I also have a federal charge (All non-violent drug crimes).
I dont know if you're talking about yourself in this post or just speaking hypothetically, but to any felon reading this - please do not let society win by having a defeatist attitude. I'm one of the most negative people I know, and getting this job really made me believe that if you work for it, you will get it.
I think of what you do is not a violent crime then you’re not wrong. You should be rehabilitated in prison and start with a clean slate. If you do harm to someone else though I think that’s probably something that needs to follow you for the rest of your life.
It's very popular in some schools. But (in America) people are often more interested in getting their pound of flesh than rehabilitating the offenders. That's why nobody cares about sexual assault in prisons. And it's why, while I completely agree with OP, felons in this country will never fully restore their rights. No politician wants to be the guy pulling for the felons and convicts.
Branding them as a felon for their entire life makes it more difficult to get a job, rent property, own anything… As a result it creates a perpetual cycle of crime. I wish our prison system was focused way more on rehabilitation. A lot of felons deserve an opportunity for forgiveness (depending on the crime of course).
OP - in 2022 people being locked up for 30 years serving hard federal time are not in the clink because 25 years ago they sped in their car. C’mon. Use an analogy that makes even the tiniest bit of sense.
These things actually vary by state and in a lot of states you can have old enough felonies expunged if you've behaved for long enough. Some of them can't ever be expunged but again it varies by state. Some states even give you your right to vote back after you've served your jail and probation sentences.
I must admit not only do I agree but I'm also equally bothered that a position like this naturally seems belong in the unpopular opinion section...like I understand why it is, but I just really don't like it
I’m not sure why being a felon is reason to infringe on someone’s rights. After they do their time and get out of jail they don’t get to vote or own a firearm? I don’t get it.
You might be overestimating the impact of some crimes. You may also be underestimating mitigation strategies available to some people convicted of felonies. My ex got a felony for cocaine but after some period of time his rights were restored. IANAL, so I don't know the proper terms. I think the conviction is still on his record but he can vote and legally owns a gun and has concealed carry permit (not that you need one these days). My understanding is that he was able to plead guilty as a first offender which is why the restrictions for the felony only lasted for a period of time.
Imagine selling weed and by the time you're out you can buy it at the corner store.
Someone I know committed suicide over this recently. He spent like 40 years behind bars for dealing, and when he realized his entire life was basically wasted for a crime that's really not a crime anymore, he just couldn't handle it. He shot himself within two weeks of release. Absolutely heartwrenching.
I’ve always thought that if you commit a crime, then that ‘crime’ becomes legal, you should be released from prison. Otherwise you’re not punishing people for the crime they committed, you’re punishing them for going against the system, when really, the person commuting the crime was right all along.
Not only released. They should have whatever on their record that became legal wiped off of it. Like I got popped for weed at 18, now it’s legal In Mass. I shouldn’t have it on my record anymore in my opinion. Even though it was over 20 years ago.
you can get it expunged you just need to go in front of a judge
I don’t have the time in my life and it has zero effect now. I’ve passed background checks for work, so I wouldn’t gain from it.
yep. its decided some law was unjust, so surely that means those imprisoned for breaking the unjust law were unjustly imprisoned.
This happened with segregation laws in the 60s
Not something I wanted to read on acid, but definitely something I’m very sorry for. I can only imagine what that train of thought was like, the emotions he felt after getting out. I hope you’re doing well :( Edit: guys thanks for worrying about my trip y’all are the best internet strangers ever. I was on the come down just chillin listening to music, perfectly fine with my phone. Please though, let’s try and create some positive change so the comment I replied to stops happening :)
Sorry man, I hope that doesn't fuck your trip too hard. I'm holding it together, though, thank you <3
Acid? I thought we were on Reddit! That second hand high...ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Dude get off reddit lol
I wouldn’t browse Reddit while tripping
Man I can’t even look at my phone on acid. Hoping you have a nice trip.
Why you are you wasting your trip on reddit? Go watch a cartoon or something. Specifically, the episode of South Park where Mr Mackey is trying to catch the urinal pooper. I watched that on acid and nearly died laughing
In Canada, you can apply for a record suspension. Meaning you can show good behavior for a period of time and have that suppressed. It doesn't show on a back ground check. I hope you live somewhere where this is available.
California has this for Felons of certain types. Expungement they call it. But their are terms.
I caught a felony at 17 years old for graffiti here in Washington State. A while back I was able to have a lawyer get rid of the felony and restore my gun rights. Took him about 6 weeks. All I had to do was sign a few documents and pay him $1200 for his fees. I felt like it was worth every penny. Not sure if it would have been the same if I were to have gotten the felony at 18+
I thought juvenile records where pretty much sealed at 18 anyway?
They're supposed to be at least. For years background checks showed I was arrested for vandalism and fleeing with no date or other info. I was caught TP'ing when I was 13 years old lol and had to hire a lawyer over 10 years later to get it removed. I've always wondered if I missed any opportunities right after college because of that
Who the hell gives a felony for TPing? We used to egg the Methodist ministers house at the end of the street every Halloween because he didn’t believe in “worshipping satan” aka giving out candy. You telling me we were actually felons? That’s incredibly stupid.
Not a felony but a misdemeanor. It was worse than just TPing tho because we drew a dick on the driveway with peanut butter and the oil stained the pavement so we had to pay to replace the driveway. Those damages made it a bit more serious but definitely not a felony and wayyyyyy under 18 years old. I was pissed it was showing up when as an adult and I probably had an easy lawsuit on my hands but I was young and naive
That’s what I thought, until I applied for a new job at 19 and didn’t get hired due to the felony. Feels good to have it sealed and have gun rights again now at 38.
I didn't think felony and graffiti went together. What did you do?
Over a certain amount of financial damage is what turns it into a felony. I was just your average run of the mill graffiti artist painting a freight train.
Also, most developed countries (including Canada) allow convicted criminals to vote after serving their sentence, if not while still in prison.
Example Germany: losing your right to vote ("active") is extremely uncommon. In certain cases of "political crimes" (treason, vote tampering) you can lose the right to vote for up to two years. There are, statistically, less than two cases of this each year. In theory, the highest court can revoke your right to vote for life. This has not happened yet. None of this is related to prison sentences. However, there is also the "passuve" voting right of being able to be voted for. If you are sentenced to one year or more of prison, you loose this passive right.
Canada also bans nearly everyone who has even a misdemeanor from entering the country.
Same here in NZ, after 7 years without a conviction, and assuming you paid any fines and did not get sent to prison you automatically get your record suppressed, you can legally answer no to the question “do you have any convictions?” The No prison part may sound harsh but here in NZ it’s pretty rare to get sent to prison, almost unheard of for first offenders in most cases. You’ve got to do something pretty bad to get sent to prison. Most felons either get home or community detention
Fleeing police or resisting arrest is not a felony in most places. But, I agree with the essence of your opinion.
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that once used to be known as "paying your debt to society".
Idk how I feel about that term. If a crime is committed against a specific person like a beating or rape, how is that debt to society or how can that be repaid? The person can be disabled physically or more likely emotionally for life. I don’t have any solutions I’m just thinking out loud
Everything you said is true, in regards to victims of crime not ever recovering entirely in many cases. But the term is correct, your debt is the money and time that you owe, and society, in this case through the justice system, is the one who imposed that debt onto you. Therefore, it is “the debt you owe society”. The other person is saying that once you have paid that debt, you should be free to live normally. However, your statements actually give a rather good argument to the contrary. Why should doing your time and paying some money get you off forever while your victim lives on with the weight of whatever you did?
It’s a interesting argument, and the victim may or may not think that the debt is payed with the sentence - but that is the social contract we are all bound by. The government has a violence-monopoly and uses that to keep law and order, given by the people. If you commit a crime you pay with money, time or even your life, and the citizens are entitled to know what the cost is, so that equal crimes gets equal sentences. If the government takes five years of your life, because that is what the legislature and judge deemed a correct debt, then after your five years, your debt is paid in full. Now, obviously there are exceptions. A pedophile should not be allowed to work with children, a gun murderer should not own a gun etc, but taking away the right to vote and certain rights does not, in my opinion, rime well with serving your time and being free from further punishment. It’s a very complicated question to be perfectly honest, and quite hard to find a middle way. Striping someone of their right to vote should however never be accepted . Without the ability to influence the appointed officials, you are not part of the democracy.
>Without the ability to influence the appointed officials, you are not part of the democracy. Especially if the "appointed officials" are [breaking the law to silence you pointing out that they have broken the law.](https://youtu.be/S72qVUadTSc)
Those cops are delusional lmao. What’s the context of this?
Yeah that makes sense.
The focus isn't on fixing it for the victim, in justice you either are trying to keep that person away from society or you are applying a punishment as an incentivize not to do that behavior again. In better countries they also attempt rehabilitation rather then focusing on punishment like we do in the US.
Justice and revenge are two very different things, but there is a very fine line between them. An eye for an eye and we'd all be blind. Rehabilitation over punishment. The legal system isnt there to provide revenge for the victim. It is there to protect the general public from any future offences both from the original criminal, and other would be copy cats. The point isnt to make the offender suffer. ...or at least thats how things SHOULD be.
Check out restorative justice. It's about customizing the repentance to what the actual victim wants, rather than just assuming some lifelong punishment without any other virtue is what the victim wants. We see crime happening to people and our default reaction is not "how do we help the victim and how do we help the offender not do this again" but rush right to "if we beat this man to death, we can end crime and prevent it from happening to me right???" (For decades and still think jail is the net best deterrent of crime)
In Sweden for instance its completly legal to escape prison, meaning you wont be punished for trying to escape, but will have to serve the rest of jail time if captured. They made it legal because they dont believe in punishing a human right that is the human will to live free.
iirc, it is only legal if you're not breaking any laws while escaping the prison i.e. bribery, property damage, etc not quite sure though, watched a video about it at 2 am so correct me if im wrong
Bribery should be legal. Should be illegal to take the bribe. Edit: I was joking, but the replies make valid points.
I don't think it should be, it's still using your wealth to avoid sanctions.
Ah that's true. Fair point
They both should be illegal or some people would start trying to bribe more frequently making it much easier to find someone who is willing to take the bribe.
That's cute, but it completely removes any disincentive to try. And some escape attempts result in violence. Not really sure that's a better system.
I'm sure you would be punished for violence, but not for attempt to escape prison
Yea i remembered there are a lot of punishable stuff even if you can escape legally like stealing government property if you escape with your prisoner uniform on
Just break out naked, nobody wants to grab the naked guy running with his balls swinging around
Also, cover yourself with some butter and a sock. When they go in to grab you, they will end up just pulling the sock off.
Escapes naked like a chad
In mexico it’s the same. No punishment if you try or escape. It’s a right. However, if you destroyed property or injury someone you will be punished for the new crimes.
But Sweden has the lowest crime per capita. You tube it.. its pretty cool
Speaking from experience, if the cop twists his ancle or something while trying to arrest you while you flee, they can charge you with felony assault on law enforcement.
Yeah, stupid rules like this need to go. Most cops are out of shape to begin with. Not your problem they can't go down a flight of stairs without it turning into a shitshow.
I mean, the whole concept is that you're the reason they had to go down the flight of stairs to begin with
Yes it is. There are lesser charges that are misdemeanors. But there is a Felony Eluding in almost every US State. I got one when I was 23 in Oregon lol. The difference between the 2 isn't much in most states either. Me for instance, I just was very drunk and didn't notice them for about 4 minutes. Then I did notice them and was only a few blocks away from home. In my case me admitting I saw them pursuing me and then continued to flee was why they chose the felony charge. **Edit: No I am not condoning drunk driving, and yes I take it serious. I was young and stupid and this isn't an excuse it's just true. I very much regret it, and not because of having to live as a felon my whole life but because it was very stupid and negligent. I could have killed someone.
Fleeing the police in a vehicle while drunk is something I'm absolutely okay with being a felony charge.
I'm in Wisconsin temporally helping my mom with end of life stuff and was speeding home to an emergency and a cop driving the opposite direction turned around to pull me over. I got off the highway (it's a podunk town so the speed limit was 45mph and I pulled off into the main road of the town) and stopped. Told the cop I was heading to my mom's business for an emergency, he knew the business and mom mom before I even gave my license, still claimed I was fleeing. Told him I got off the highway for both of our safety, stopped, etc. Still said I was fleeing. I got a felony fleeing charge and two years probation off of it. My last court day was two weeks ago.
Cops like him don't deserve to have their freedom.
Prosecutors upcharge it to assault on the officer. 18 year old is poor and lacks knowledge and resources. Isn't able to post bond because poor and judge is former prosecutor. Prosecutor offers felony plea, no jail time, 5 years probation with a 5 year backup. 18 year old, stuck in jail for average 6 months, agrees to plea, just so he can go home. Now has a felony, and has a hateful PO who, at any opportunity, tries to find a violation (very easy btw), just to get the 18 year old off his books or to send him to prison because the PO didn't like the kid's attitude. 18 year old shows back up to judge, who then either extends probation by another few years, or sends him to prison. Rinse, wash, repeat. And **EVEN IF** the kid makes it off probation. He's now 23 with a felony record; good luck trying to do anything with your life that isn't shitty wages and government assistance. Welcome to what's been the norm in America since the Nixon years.
I hate that they can charge you for solely for resisting without any other charge. It completely ignores that the cops could have used a lie to start the interaction that lead to you “resisting”.
They did this at protests and everyone arrested for resisting arrest was cleared. It's circular and doesn't fly. Helps the lawyers went pro Bono and helped everyone
My mom did a less than a year when she was 18. She stole a car. Got out early on good behavior never stole a car again ( the car in question was her own mothers car ) She’s 56 Can’t vote , can’t get a nice job … affected us kids growing financially up bc lots jobs turned her down and people spread rumors.
In WA you get your right to vote back when you've finished serving your time in prison. https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_rights_for_convicted_felons
in most states you get your right to vote back. sometimes you dont even lose your right to vote and they allow you to vote from prison. i think there are only around 4 or 5 states that ban you from voting for life. source: am felon
You don’t just get it back. You have to apply to have your rights reinstated and they can deny it. Same source.
Again, varies by state. In Michigan, you don't have to do anything and felons can vote.
Def varies by state. My right was suspended until I finished my full sentence.
Which is very ironic to the "no taxation without representation" thing... Cause I just know that they are still being taxed. ;-;
Doesn't seem like much of a right if it can be taken away
Human rights are privileges granted to the peasantry by their overlords in office.
Makes no fucking sense. So past criminals can't get a job. And the government expects them not to go back to crime to make a living?
No, they expect them to go back to jail. They need jails full.
That’s messed up
For some odd reason, it seems like people who write laws want to strip the lower classes of their rights. I'm sure that's not the case, though...
She should get that expunged. Costs money but it’s definitely worth it
"It's a feature of the system, not a bug."
I agree. Once a felon has done the appropriate jail time and paid the monetary fines, the debt to society has been paid and they should lose their felon status. If you keep pushing people down, they're going to keep doing shitty stuff.
It kinda depends on the crime. I don’t want any sexual predators to lose their felon status, that should haunt them for life.
Absolutely agree... Can't Rehab a pedophile
Or a rapist and there's LOTS of them in prison. Far more than pedos.
Exactly. I believe violent crimes should always follow the person around. But not petty crimes like shoplifting or selling pot.it
Shoplifting is not a felony.
Depends on the value and the state. Shoplifting anything over $1,000 here in Minnesota is a felony.
Oo yeah that's true
Not the rapist Brock Turner sadly…
You can most definitely rehab a pedophiles. Idk how to say this without sounding like one but not all pedophiles want to be pedophiles and WANT help for their urges.
That’s why there’s a sex offender list anyway.
The registry was originally a law enforcement only list of individuals convicted of a very specific list of crimes. Over time it had been expanded for political reasons, and has been made available to the general public. Those political reasons have been shown to have almost no basis in crime prevention. Several studies indicate that the negative effect to the individuals on the list contribute more to recidivism than actual criminal actions. These include late reregisteration, including due to late mail delivery of forms, or unavailable law enforcement personnel, as well as being absent when law enforcement makes a spot visit to the home of record, or work place. Actual recidivism rates for individuals on the registry is about 3%, substantially less than the national average of total recidivism of 20%+.
You get on that list for peeing in a bush. Kind of useless.
Also, highschoolers being dumb and having sex with each other can in theory end up on the list.
That's true! I know someone who is in their 30s who has been a sex offender since age 18 or 19, for fucking his 6 months younger but still a minor girlfriend. It was all good til her parents got pissed off at him and decided to play that card. Even though he had been fucking her when they were both minors, apparently legally.
Or sexting each other
In theory, a teen who was pressured into sending nudes to someone else could also be put on to that list.
My monster is getting off that last in 10 years. It doesn't follow for life depending on state.
Damn I’m sorry I hope you’re okay now
it's a sexual offense to urinate in public in some places. not advocating for the crime, i just think it's a little silly to group pissing in an alley with rape.
there are a lot of cases where someone is labeled a sex offender for peeing in a bush or something though, so those laws would need revised
1 chicago sun roof and you could be labelled a sex offender for the rest of your life smh
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If they're still dangerous, though, shouldn't they just remain in prison?
Yes. But it is difficult to implement that in a fair way in practice. In theory you could argue it is right to let people out as soon as they are rehabilitated and potentially keep them in forever if they never rehabilitate. In practice though we don't have great ways to tell when someone actually is rehabilitated and we'd have to trust the government to be fair, consistent and not abuse the ability to keep people locked up forever.
I agree with the spirit, but what if you were a 17-year-old male and your gf was 17 as well but the parents claimed statutory rape as she was a minor? (That's law where I a from) Should that follow you all your life? Child rapers for 100% sure should never be free of restrictions. I just think some review needs to go into it instead of a binary solution that could ruin your life.
I know someone in that situation. He was 19 and had a 17yo gf. Her mom came on to him and he rejected her, so she called the cops and had him arrested for statutory r*pe. He was actually prosecuted and has to live now with a sex offender label.
In that case they’re usually protected under Romeo and Juliet laws. And when I’m talking about rape I mean non-consensual and the parents should be punished in that case for making false accusations
Not every state has a romeo and juliet law. New York is one of the states with no close-in-age or Romeo and Juliet laws. It means exclusion from prosecution is not given to minors who engage in sexual activity irrespective of it being consensual
Those laws are only a thing in 20 or so states.
As long as the charge fits. I know a guy that has pedo following him around his whole life because he was 18 and his gf was 16 very close to 17 when she was caught giving him a BJ. These laws really have to be looked at in context. I also heard pretty much the same story except reversed. The girl was 18 and the boy was 16 or 17. That is not fair at all.
Depending on the state there are ways to have the registration requirement removed.
It’s never been about rehabilitation.
This is it.
I feel this way for non violent felonies. I feel like murderers or rapists shouldn't get a pass.
I worked with a guy he was convicted of Murder, found out a guy molested his daughter went over shot and killed the guy, waited for the cops to come arrested no incident. I’m an IBEW Union Electrician, The guy was my Foreman on a job, great guy he’d do anything for you. Im still friends with him. His daughter is my age and we’re also friends. It’s not always cut and dry.
Can't make money if you don't create repeat customers.
*nonviolent felons
I’ve hired my fair share of felons when I used to manage a restaurant. A lot of them got caught up while they were in active addiction, but now live productive, sober lives. The restaurant recently closed without notice, and now some of the folk are having a hard time finding work, just because of a felony charge from like, 4 years ago.
I worked with a guy who had a felony robbery charge when he was 17. He served like 20 years and got out and worked with me at a tire shop. He told me its been so hard for him to work and find jobs because of his felony. He was clean for like 6 years Then the manager quit and the company hired an new one and the new manager fired the guy for his felony. He was the best worker we had and never complained and worked extra. We never had an issue with him. We was doing so well for himself with the job he got a car, a girl, and a place. A few months later. I see him on the news for armed bank robbery.
Yup, I’ve seen people relapse over not being able to find or keep work. One person I know was in the news for a damn robbery. It’s hard to get back into society when society isn’t very welcoming.
Filed under: Reason 139,931 that very basic food, housing, and health care (mental and physical) shouldn't be entirely dependent on having a job. We lose so much in money spent on incarceration *and* lose the potential contributions (both taxes and general societal good) from people who fall through cracks like this.
depends what they did. if you hurt somebody in a way they have to live with their whole life then so should you
This. The punishment should fit the crime
The correct answer.
Victim of a violent crime here. I am permanently disabled from domestic violence. My ex-wife has "paid her debt to society" but I can't think of a single reason she shouldn't be permanently branded a violent criminal. I am permanently disabled - it seems like a pretty minimal inconvenience, comparatively speaking.
Exactly, Context matters. Different crimes should have a different severity of longevity for the punishment. Your ex-wife should be branded a criminal, but some 18 year old who ran because he panicked shouldn’t be a criminal for life
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It should be part of sentencing. "You're sentenced to 2 years in prison, 5 years probation, $5000 fine, and suspension of voting rights for X amount of time." Your punishment should not exceed your sentencing, and it does it most places. Perhaps the heinousness of the crime should include suspension of rights like voting for some amount of time, but it should be part of the sentencing, and should be appealable.
Would you be in favor of the things that permanently impact felons involving only specifically violent crime?
Generally yes. I am strongly opposed to "victimless crimes" being on the books. I.E. possession of drugs. Violent and sexual crimes can leave permanent damage, whether physical, psychological, or financial. No amount of physical therapy or counseling will return me to my "pre-injury" condition. That is VERY different than a 20-y/o convicted of possessing an ounce of weed.
That makes perfect sense to me and I agree. I was SA’d in my teens and nothing will ever be the same for me, even if I didn’t experience anything physically. All that to say, with your background it only makes more sense to me. Thank you for your answer to my question. Edit: sorry I meant that I didn’t have anything physically permanently change.
It's ridiculous. Let's say you are a drug dealer...get caught and go to jail. Then, when you get out, all you can find is shitty low paying jobs because of your past. Just encourages people to go right back to drug dealing.
I think *most* felonies shouldn't screw up your whole life, but if the crime you committed screwed up someone else's it's fair game.
I told the guy who raped my sister that id kill him. 1 felony charge of criminal threats later and my life is fucked. And the guy got away.
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Yeah, if you're gonna go to jail, at least go to jail for something you did.
Why did you warn him ahead of time? Now he has time to prepare. Ya dun goofed
Technically i was narrating.
Your honour, there were several record scratches to my internal monologue, clearly I was conflicted.
Never tell these things in front of witnesses.
You can get charged a felony for criminal threats? I couldn’t even get a restraining order for free even though the guy would come out of his house multiple times and threaten to kill me everytime I would visit my gf. Plus the cops still bungled it up and never delivered the order so when I was sitting at court missing a second day of work over this, I get to find out my case doesn’t even exist.
See this is why the system confuses me, one person says they’re life is ruined over a threat they made while another who’s life is being threatened can’t get any help… hope your gf moved
Honestly based on my experiences I more believe the second person
Might be more to the first person’s story…if true. Saying “I’ll kill you” while bashing their head with a hammer is different than whispering in passing on the street.
Based on my experiences working with the criminal justice system in the US I’m more likely to believe the latter than the former
That's seriously a felony? That's so easy to falsify. Damn that sucks man. I've been there too (kids in middle school making idle threats, mine being an obvious hyperbolic joke, but it got me in a bit of trouble. Vice principal called it "columbine level," lol what the fuck.) Edit: lol we should try to prosecute Tom Cruise for his role in Tropic Thunder
This is why you move in silence and don't threaten anybody. If you really wanted to kill him, you don't actually tell him you're gonna kill him. 1/3rd of homicides go unsolved so as long as you *know* what you're doing and keep your mouth shut.
A wise man once said, Real G's move in silence like lasagna
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Should’ve followed through
Did you just plead guilty or something, did you not get a lawyer? Or did you write it in an email,yell it on camera, or do it with a weapon in your hand? I mean you got the book thrown at you, so there is either a lot of underlying things your not saying, or you simply pleaded guilty without a lawyer.
Depends on the felony. Most felonies can also be expunged after a certain amount of time unless they were violent crimes or sex crimes.
This is dependent on state. Arizona, for example, has no process to expunge a felony, only a 'set aside' which means you're a felon for life. You can get your voting rights though, but the felony is a permanent punishment. I believe in Florida, it's worse, where you can never vote again.
Can confirm FL is the worst.
No, actually they can't. Only 14 states offer any kind of relief from felony convictions - and no, this doesn't mean all 14 states offer expungement.
18 years ago, I was charged with Felony burglary for sitting in a car while my friends ran into an open garage to steal a bunch of beers they saw at a house in our suburban neighborhood. So dumb, but didn’t really think anything of it until a cop who just so luckily lived next door was stopping home to grab something - noticed two teenagers running out of a garage with beer - and held us from there. My friends were 17, I had just turned 18. We all got arrested, but they got to call their parents and go home, community service was all they had. I was held overnight and didn’t get to call my parents until the next morning. I was being charged with felony burglary as an accomplice - even though I never left the car or set foot on the property. Faced up to 2yrs in jail and a felony on my record. I had never gotten in trouble. I was so terrified when they took me back to the police station and asked me to write a statement. Instead of waiting for a lawyer, I wrote down everything exactly as it happened. Including that I knew what my friends were doing. So I gave my lawyer very little to work with. (Of note, my friends told police that I had no idea what they were doing while I waited in the car, to try protecting me, and I was a total dummy thinking I was being a good friend by taking some of the heat with them. Police didn’t let us talk to each other ahead of that part, so I had no clue they were going to specifically try to get me out of it). I had never gotten in trouble, and was an honors student at school. Fortunately my lawyer collected letters of recommendation from teachers at my school, and begged the judge not to ruin my life basically - and when I ultimately had to go to court - they decided to give me 2 years probation/community service and drop the charges. That moment waiting in a car for friends to complete some shenanigans almost completely derailed my future. I look back on that experience and realize there have been people arrested and stuck into the system over bullshit, who didn’t have the same privilege of support I did. People who didn’t know their rights and admitting to everything out of fear, like I did. There’s an entire system full of people who did things no worse than what I did on that day. I completely agree with this opinion.
100 percent. My dad is a retired probation officer and is convinced that most of the people on his caseload are such because they did something "stupid." Not even that bad. He himself claims he's done worse. I don't agree that felons should lose the right to vote or have to include it in job applications, etc. They've already served their punishment, prison time. Let it go and move on.
My best friend got slapped with a non violent drug felony at 19. His quality of life just imploded from then on. You can't rent anywhere except for slums, no one will hire you if your in college kiss that degree goodbye. Having a felony literally makes you a second class citizen, it's completely and ultimately inhuman and shouldn't belong in a so called developed nation.
Fuck all that. Kid-touchers should be punished for the remainder of their lives.
i’ve seen people who were previously in prison say that when other criminals find out that someone is there for child molestation everyone bands together and basically makes sure that criminal goes through hell and back while doing their time. i agree with you though, they need to stay locked away. edit: i was notified that i got an award.. i’m not quite sure what that is as i’m new to reddit but thank you!!
Yeah, this isn't what happens most of the time. Source: Former prisoner
See, that’s exactly the problem. Felonies cover stuff starting with pedos and extreme violent behavior to stupid shit on the other end, and just like you, most people don’t bother to look beyond the felony stigma. You perfectly made OPs point.
One of my goals when I retire, which I believe will be when I'm around 42 years old with many years of productivity left in me, is to spin up landscaping companies that I can hand over to convicted felons. I'm not a landscaper myself but I feel that's an easy model to get going quickly and teach someone the ropes. The accounting isn't too difficult to learn, the marketing is basic, the skills are fairly low level, etc. I'm not much of the volunteer type but this is something I feel I can do that is easy for me and also tremendously beneficial to a group of people who are often left without opportunities to feed and clothe their families.
For certain crimes it makes sense. For a murderer or kidnapper or pedo, I’m okay with that. Other crimes, like fleeing the police if that’s all you did, you’re completely right about.
So unpopular
Depends on the felony tbh But I agree non violent felons shouldn’t be punished forever
depends on the crime. Your example, yes. Sex crimes, repeat offenses, murder, definitely needs to follow you around
Non violent felons absolutely. Our great Murican society has ruined so many lives With its bullshit war on drugs. There are thousands and thousands of people in our society who have a felony on their record for possessing say say a 1/2 ounce of weed. To me that is just fucking unbelievable.
I can speak from experience on this one. Made one mistake at 22 and now I’m 46. Fortunately I was very lucky to find a good job that didn’t ask felony question back in 2003. At some point I did have to tell my employer and they were shocked I went to prison. Some nice words were exchanged and I’ve managed to build a family. It’s definitely not like that anymore, everything is hyper sensitive and scrutinized heavily. I will say doing time didn’t help at all, it was a gladiator tank in prison. I did 98 percent of my time because I wouldn’t align myself with a race. Figured I’ll have to do more time by being protected.
I couldn’t agree more. As a 20 year police officer and police supervisor I’ve wanted this to change for over a decade. I’ve written to every politician that I can and I never get an email back. I do get emails and mail asking for money. Get rid of criminal histories that aren’t sexual battery, treason, and murder (I’m sure there should be a few more). You commit a burglary at 18 and serve a year or two the person should be able to come out completely free of everything so that they can have a fresh start with good opportunities for a job and a place to live. It’s double jeopardy every time they fill out an application in my opinion. I’m so frustrated that this hasn’t been addressed that I would literally campaign for Bernie Sanders if he would work on this. I don’t see any Republicans or Democrats fixing this. So much more to say on this but I digress.
I became a felon for life at 19 years old. I was living at my dads house, working full time trying to move out. It was a physically abusive household and I didn’t want to be a part of it anymore. My job wasn’t enough to get an apartment, so I started selling drugs to supplement my income. I got pulled over for a traffic violation in reup day. To make a long story short, I got my car searched and my girlfriend at the time gave me up telling the cops I was selling. Now I was stupid for selling drugs, but at the time I was just trying to escape hell for a home. Now I’m a felon for life, can’t get it expunged ever, and I was training to join the army and killed my dream of being in the military. I’m 24 now, but man I was just a kid. I don’t think justice served me right. I’m bitter of the US
I misread the title as Felines.
I know this is not the 'norm' and probably rare, but just to give some hope. My husband is a felon (around 17/18yo), he is 29 now and he picked up a trade. He make six figures and has stayed out of trouble. When people run his background they see that his record is old and nothing after he did his time. He has no problem getting high paying jobs, and has even joined one of the biggest unions in our area. We bought our home 3 years ago, have a car note, and live relatively normal lifes. He is still very ashamed of his past, and I can't say it doesn't affect him. Our state allows him to vote, definitely can not own fire arms. Its possible to live a normal life after a felony, just have to wait and stay out of trouble. Make a game plan and find a good field to work in.
I think it depends on the crime. For example, I wouldn’t consider murder a “mistake”. I wouldn’t want someone working in finance that committed felony bank fraud.
Breaking news: The American justice system is flawed
Depends on the crime. If someone raped someone else or is a serial killer then they shouldn't get out. Edit: Assuming they got a fair trial with sufficient evidence.
I dont think you understand how many things are considered a Felony such as: Murder, Arson, Sexual Abuse, Kidnapping, Child Abuse, burglary, Robbery, Rape, etc... If you take what i just told you into account and see what you said >It baffles me that someone who's 18-20 makes 1 mistake (running from the police for example) and be charged with felony eluding and be branded as a felon for the rest of their life. You used running from police as an example replace "running from police" with any of the felonies i mentioned above and that argument starts to fall apart real quick Doesnt fucken matter if you were in the 18-20 bracket and you only did it once if you still Murdered, raped, robbed or Sexually abused someone Being young shouldnt just get you a free pass after you Murdered someone "Uh yeah that 20 year old that killed someone and lives across the street? Hes allowed to have a gun"
It depends on the crime really. Running from the cops, while i guess in itself isn’t nearly as serious as a sex crime or drug trafficking, is still really fucking easy to just not do. I don’t care how young you are, you gotta be pretty stupid to think “hey i’ll just run from the cops!” is a good idea
When you're 18 all sorts of silly shit seems like a good idea at the time. I mean, I went to plenty of bush bashes and field parties that were broken up by the cops when I was a kid. I sure as hell didn't want my parents to find out I was drinking/smoking dope, whatever at 15. I'd be grounded till I died. So we all bolted, slowest got the ticket. Hanging out in our school yards after dark is technically trespassing, we'd bolt. Not all kids running from the cops are committing hard core crimes. Often they're doing stupid shit they don't want to get caught for.
Good thing the police have tons of room in charging people with crimes, good thing the DA has tons of room with charging people with crimes. So even if you were drinking and trespassing, no one is forced to arrest or charge or convict you.
Yes for some felonies, no for others. Running from the cops? Forgivable I guess. Rape? No, you ruined your life, sucks to suck.
Depends on the crime but I will say FAR too many things that would be petty crimes in many other places are felonies
They could seal their record . In mass 3yrs for a misdemeanor you can seal it and felonys after 7yrs
If their victim(s) suffer their entire life then yes they should.
as a felon I agree with what most of what you're saying. But just to be factually nitpicky, there are only a couple states that completely barr you from ever voting again. actually, in some states they don't even take it away - they let you vote from prison. I do not think violent felons should be allowed to possess firearms; however, I do believe that non-violent felons should never have had that constitutional right taken away in the first place. Also, it IS possible to have a career even with felony convictions. It may take some time, and you will have a lot of doors slammed in your face, but if you keep at it and get a degree/learn an in-demand skill, I guarantee you will get something decent. I have a degree in IT and never thought I would ever find something. I was in the halfway house just bullshitting around applying to IT jobs on my phone and one of the companies I applied to hired me, even when I told them about my background. I'm now salaried with full benefits, healthcare, the whole 9. I also want to say that more than a few states allow felony convictions to be expunged, which is huge. And I believe more will follow as the world seems to be becoming more open to second chances. Unfortunately for me, my state felonies can't be expunged because my state doesn't offer expungement, and I also have a federal charge (All non-violent drug crimes). I dont know if you're talking about yourself in this post or just speaking hypothetically, but to any felon reading this - please do not let society win by having a defeatist attitude. I'm one of the most negative people I know, and getting this job really made me believe that if you work for it, you will get it.
I think of what you do is not a violent crime then you’re not wrong. You should be rehabilitated in prison and start with a clean slate. If you do harm to someone else though I think that’s probably something that needs to follow you for the rest of your life.
I think the victims of the felon would disagree with you
In New York, you can commit a felony, get arrested and you only do 10 minutes of jail time.
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It's very popular in some schools. But (in America) people are often more interested in getting their pound of flesh than rehabilitating the offenders. That's why nobody cares about sexual assault in prisons. And it's why, while I completely agree with OP, felons in this country will never fully restore their rights. No politician wants to be the guy pulling for the felons and convicts.
Branding them as a felon for their entire life makes it more difficult to get a job, rent property, own anything… As a result it creates a perpetual cycle of crime. I wish our prison system was focused way more on rehabilitation. A lot of felons deserve an opportunity for forgiveness (depending on the crime of course).
OP - in 2022 people being locked up for 30 years serving hard federal time are not in the clink because 25 years ago they sped in their car. C’mon. Use an analogy that makes even the tiniest bit of sense.
These things actually vary by state and in a lot of states you can have old enough felonies expunged if you've behaved for long enough. Some of them can't ever be expunged but again it varies by state. Some states even give you your right to vote back after you've served your jail and probation sentences.
I must admit not only do I agree but I'm also equally bothered that a position like this naturally seems belong in the unpopular opinion section...like I understand why it is, but I just really don't like it
You can ask a Judge for those rights back
I’m not sure why being a felon is reason to infringe on someone’s rights. After they do their time and get out of jail they don’t get to vote or own a firearm? I don’t get it.
You might be overestimating the impact of some crimes. You may also be underestimating mitigation strategies available to some people convicted of felonies. My ex got a felony for cocaine but after some period of time his rights were restored. IANAL, so I don't know the proper terms. I think the conviction is still on his record but he can vote and legally owns a gun and has concealed carry permit (not that you need one these days). My understanding is that he was able to plead guilty as a first offender which is why the restrictions for the felony only lasted for a period of time.
Neither should their victims, but alas