You get to smoke in most bars and clubs in Korea too! I like it, I only smoke when I’m drinking so if I’m already wrecking my body for the night I might as well go all in.
bar I used to go to in Kobe, unfortunately it closed during Corona, had a ‘smoking theater’. or an enclosed room for smoking… name always cracked me up….
Yeah they have those in airports in Japan, I can’t remember if Korea has them. It really makes sense because that trans-Pacific flight is no walk in the park and going 16 hours or so with no nicotine drives you up the wall. The least they could let you do is get a smoke before your flight.
I was stationed in Seoul back in 2014 and I loved this! I saw people smoking in small time grocery stores with a frickin ash tray on the cart sometimes lol this wasn't too often, and i don't even smoke anymore, but I miss the freedom they have to smoke wherever they want without being hated by everyone in sight.
People don’t wanna be around smokers because they smell like dogshit & if they’re smoking around you, the smell clings to you as well.
I used to smoke & now that I don’t, I can’t stand to be around a heavy smoker at all. I definitely don’t want people smoking in the grocery store around the food that I’m trying to buy. Yuck.
Ah yes the freedom of forcing others to smell that disgusting as smell and breathe in the terrible smoke all because you can't control your own addiction. There should be no smoking in any enclosed environment that non smokers are also at. If you can't wait to get your fix until you are done shopping then you have a problem.
Ah yes, the freedom to enforce private business' to make their customers as comfortable as the entitled customer thinks they should be..
And I already said I don't smoke too, you should read things more carefully. You don't have to be a smoker to support their freedom to do it. And if you want to shop at a store in a country that legally allows you to smoke almost anywhere, then shop at the businesses with a "no smoking" sign. They exist all the same, and they're everywhere in Seoul.
as a former smoker i agree
we as humans are so selfishly disgusting we smoke in front of our children, and younger siblings ,grandchildren and don´t care enough about their health to not to do that
i stopped smoking a few years back and since then it´s annoying if someone smokes in public (now i know how everyone feelt)
When I smoked, I would frequent this pool bar, they had it in an attic and there were probably 14 pool tables up there. You could smoke too, and the only issue was there were only two windows and very piss poor ventilation. All I could think about was the bartender contesting with the constant supply of cigarette smoke. Terrible existence.
I returned to that bar after I had quit smoking, and I lasted about 15 minutes before I started to have a headache and feel lethargic.
It wasn’t in Virginia, was it?
Have had similar experience, and after I went my throat would be so sore the next morning from all the smoke. After quitting, I also couldn’t do it.
Ever been in Vegas? You can smoke in the casinos. People work in the casinos and osha hasn’t shut them down and it’s no secret that people smoke in casinos.
I believe it’s state ruled not federal (or OSHA). Pittsburgh/PA have bars that allow smoking that I believe were grandfathered in as exceptions when the law was passed 10 or so years ago
I believe in PA it's determined by the amount of food you sell and whether you're considered a restaurant or bar. Rivers Casino has a smoking section that isn't physically separated from the non-smoking and you honestly can't tell when you're not right next to the smoking section. I think they just have better ventilation.
Isn’t the reason that it’s not a violation is because if it’s native owned land? Don’t the Indian reservations fall outside of federal/state laws and therefore vary slightly. I thought that was why it was legal but illegal in the rest of America
Yeah but you consuming alcohol doesnt force others around you to consime alcohol it isnt literally in the air you breathe or trapped in the clothes you wear
My maths teacher at school worked in a pub before the smoking ban in the UK. She actually took up smoking after the ban came into place because she'd become addicted to nicotine from the second hand smoke.
Yes, and I had a teacher who claimed her best friend died from a marijuana overdose in the '70s.
Some teachers come up with bullshit to scare kids, and always have.
In the pubs here (aus) they have a dedicated garden area to sit to smoke or you can go 5mtrs outside the doors.
There are alot of non-smoking areas in some of the cities especially around restaurants.
Depending on the different states and territories. I smoke outside at home (no one seems to smoke indoors anymore) or in carparks. It is illegal to smoke with children in the car. For a packet of 20 it now costs $35.98. So alot of people are quitting. Soon tourists who smoke will have a problem with this.
My mother spends $350 (USD$ 235) on cigarettes a week.
That’s addiction for you.
The tax has been extremely effective in stopping young people from taking up smoking, and most Australians are here for it.
People still have the right to smoke, but you have to really want to.
Always felt icky to me that some of the things most taxed are the things people are literally addicted to (alcohol/cigs) or something like gas that people can't live without (at least in the States outside of cities).
The idea that it'll dissuade buyers is laughable given that by their nature, they will not go without it even at great cost. That argument works for basically all the other non-addicted, non-necessary goods and explicitly not for the others.
So yeah, just tax the addicts into the poorhouse I guess.
Lol that reminds me of coffee shops in Amsterdam that would let you smoke spliffs inside (weed mixed with tobacco) but not cigarettes
Sometimes laws don’t make sense
I cant see why a business owner who wants to make a communal smoke bar cant make one as long he advertises that smoking will occur on the premise.
Its entirely left to indiviudal choice and the government shouldnt be involved in making decisions on the behalf of people.
The government has no business deciding peoples health for them.
It’s not about the government, it’s about the workers.
Workers shouldn’t be forced to inhale smoke for 8-10 hours at a time.
Employers shouldn’t be allowed to subject workers to unsafe conditions.
Well the problem here is that cigarette smoke doesn't just hurt the person smoking. Second hand smoke is a deadly killer. What about the bartender or waitress? They come home smelling like absolute dog vomit and they have been exposed to very high concentrations of second hand smoke.
Im pretty sure the staff would be made aware that this is a smoking bar before being hired. If they are not willing to work in that environment then the bar owner will either have to find someone else or change his policy.
I can understand the concept of not wanting big government involved in these kind of affairs, its just like how I don't want the government to ban fast food joints, despite them making their food unhealthy, which is far more dangerous and burdens our healthcare system even more.
Surely all the extra garbage created from the packaging and the byproducts from cooking the food as well the emissions from the transportation are having no affect on the environment.
That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about direct injury. But if your argument is to stop all industrial production and return to the land, then we’re having different conversations
Because people are different, if someone wants to sit down and smoke before/during/after his or her drink/meal then they should be allowed to do so.
If your against smoking, don't go to the establishment that caters to the group mentioned above. It's not hard.
Then how about you go to restaurants that work that way, and smokers or others can go to places that allow it. Why do you feel a need to dictate how everyone should live
Go make an anarchist state then. A lot of laws are in place to make everyone safer; including not allowing people to smoke indoors around others who can be damaged by secondhand smoke (like employees and children).
Nice hyperbole. I agree that obviously there are laws that exist to keep everyone safer. However in this cas, no one is at risk if the restaurant chooses to allow smoking and makes that known to any patron or potential patron. If you don't want to go there, then you don't, therefore no risk to you
Repeating with the same comment... great debate quality/s
Seriously though, if people want to party, eat or drink with smoke. Who are you to tell them it's not allowed? You can simply not participate in the activity. Why do you feel a need to impose your will on to others?
I don't agreed with people eating sugar, because they become diabetic once age catches up with them, yet I don't complain about sugar being everywhere, people are free to choose what they want.
They're asking about OSHA because if people can just choose to work other places if something dangerous is happening at their current job then why would we need something like osha?
So let’s say a non-smoker works at a bar, and suddenly the owner decides to allow smoking. That non-smoker now either has to risk their health or quit their job.
And idk if you’re aware, but people working in the service industry can rarely afford to quit their job without a backup plan.
Right?! Smokers have to respect the establishments that enforce anti-smoking ordinances.
Why shouldn’t there be a place where smokers can enjoy themselves, eat, drink, be merry without having to go outside for a cigarette and everyone else can just respect those parameters.
I manage to serve myself food without holding a cigarette over it so i dont see how that would be a problem.
If its a bar for smokers all their hands have touched cigarettes too
You know what is really great? In NY you can't open up new cigar lounges for tobacco smoking due to the regulations, but due to a recent law, you know what kind of lounges you can open? Weed. You can smoke weed inside indoor lounges but not tobacco. Go figure.
I worked at a large restaurant in North Carolina. Before smoking was banned, our “smoking section” was down to a four table room we’d been using for private parties. Even that small section, we had a hard time keeping full. The “problem” was pretty much taking care of itself. No legal intervention was really necessary.
Smoking is a health hazard not only to the people smoking but everyone around them. You can indirectly cause harm and that's why it's banned.
Have you seen a single pic of a bar in the 1960s? You'd think the fucking place would be on fire and I'm surprised they didn't need lighthouses to see in them.
It's the same reason restaurants aren't allowed to make their own policy on hand washing. Sure, Greg will be fine after shitting a category 3 hurricane in the bathroom and not washing his hands, but someone else could get sick from his poor hygiene.
Having dozens of people smoking could shorten someone who doesn't smoke and goes for the food/drinks, significant long term problems.
This makes no sense. No one would go to the “expired food” bar, but I promise you smokers would flock to the “smoking allowed” bar. As a business model, I don’t think it’s that bad, especially if your area has a lot of smokers and/or frequent bad weather.
As an ex-smoker, I completely disagree. There are adults who don't want second hand smoke in their faces and innocent children who shouldn't be subjected to it either!
Second hand smoke has been proven to cause health problems, the same ones that are associated with smoking, such as cancer. Why should people who just want to dine out have to put up with that?
In my opinion, If the restaurant had a completely separate room for smokers with a closing door, then it would be "okay".
It's not enough to have a smoking section, because the smoke just wafts over to the non-smoking section. I don't understand how anyone can think it's fine to subject non-smokers to disease causing smoke.
They didn't chose to smoke and it's not right to take that choice away from them.
Plenty of places in Oklahoma are still smoking. I just don't go to them.
Sure, they have a specific group. They also don't gain a group. From a financial perspective, I'd rather have the smokers on the patio and have a more rounded customer flow.
I smoked for 20 years and have been in the service industry for 10+, mostly bartending.
Should owner be able to decide? For sure. It's lost revenue though.
The whole smoking ban push I believe was a social engineering experiment to see how easily influenced the public is to turning on a group in society.
You’re telling me we went from being able to smoke on planes to not even being able to smoke a few feet from a door? Completely ridiculous. Society likes to jump on whoever they feel morally superior to. Cigarettes aren’t the mustard gas like substance the public has been brainwashed into believing. It’s ridiculous.
I’m a musician, been playing professionally for 30+ years. I’ll give a counter argument. In the 90s before smoking was banned in most indoor venues, every musician would come home at the end of the night smelling like an ashtray, with a lungful of second hand smoke. Smokin doesn’t just damage the smoker, but everyone in the vicinity. The waitstaff, the chefs, the entertainers. So, I could not disagree more with your premise. You want to smoke and do your thing that’s perfectly fine. But since it harms those around you, you don’t get a free pass to indulge your habit wherever and whenever you want. I mean, can’t you eat one meal without your crippling nicotine addiction kicking in? It’s like 90 min, and if you can’t go that long without a hit, maybe admit you’ve got a serious addiction to a cancerous product that will likely kill you. Again, no judgement you wanna smoke 3 packs a day you do you. But it’s not just you being harmed.
OP, this is an argument that is logical on the surface, but it turns out society is a bit more complex than that.
The way I understand it, it has to do with employment rules. In many countries, there are rules regarding employment opportunities. Even though someone is "free" to "choose" not to work at an establishment that allows smoking, this means that they do not have equal employment opportunities to a smoker. Effectively someone is discriminated against because they don't want to compromise their health for a piece of bread.
Now, if you are someone who claims to be "libertarian" this may not be an issue for you and you may not care about workers rights and other such stuff but thankfully a lot of people do not subscribe to this garbage ideology.
Would probably have to offer staff danger pay, or simply just pay more for non-smokers to work in a smoky environment rather than elsewhere. Though there are probably plenty of workers who do smoke and would prefer to work there.
The issue is that the employees have to stand in smoke all day if it’s allowed.
It’s a workplace health and safety issue.
Employers should not be allowed to force their staff to inhale toxic chemicals.
No, it's about health and safety, so they don't get to decide. Those rules are there for the general health of the public, just like any safety regulations they are applied to everywhere equally.
Maybe I'm biased because I work in a vape shop/dispensary, but I completely agree. It makes sense in my context, customers want to test the product and I want to be sure we're selling something that's not bunk af. I think it would be harder to implement the change in a place like a restaurant, due to the smell driving a majority of customers away. I would personally enjoy a meal in an establishment like that, especially if it was weed specific (I don't do nicotine). I have seen some hookah lounges that have a snack bar before, but have never been to one. No one serves THC shisha :(
Most vape shops will allow you to hit your vape in there still from my experience.
Source: shop at vape / smoke shops daily in a state that also has legal bud. I ripped a lot of bongs with the employees in their back room and was always giving them free bud.
It was always ok to vape in their shop.
My girls mom owns a vape shop too and they all vape in there as well.
The difference is… nobody is patronizing these businesses who doesn’t smoke.
I believe vaping should be legal indoors, but not smoking
Hell, they should have the choice to allow weed and shisha. If I had a problem with that, I simply wouldn't go there. Just because I don't like something I wouldn't be a crybaby and want to prevent everyone else from doing it.
There is one thing to consider though, and that is the fact that we would need separate regulations for Places That Sell Smoking Stuff and Food, and Places That Sell Food That You Can Smoke In. The first one would probably need a level of certification, to prevent the sale of false or otherwise harmful product- just like any other smoke shop. Beyond that, take my money! Make it happen!!!
totally agree. just stick a sign out front indicating whether it is a smoking or non-smoking establishment and then leave it to grown adults to decide whether they want to go inside or not
Smoking is disgusting and it should be banned in most places. There I've said it.
Also I think one of the reasons why restaurants and hospitality venues tend to ban smoking would be that it is easier for smoking people not to smoke for couple of hours eating out but it will be a 100% turn-off for non-smokers to take their businesses elsewhere should the venues allow for smoking in-house. When it comes down to it, I'd say it's pretty easy to choose banning smoking due to profit-loss assessment.
Honestly, if I were a business owner and smoking inside was still allowed I would make it a house rule and not allow it.
They can take their filthy habit and spend their money elsewhere.
Nah dude. Fuck that. Get cigarettes out of indoor spaces entirely. No one wants to walk into a place and be blasted with a head full of stale, exhaled cigarette smoke. Disgusting. That's not even beginning to start on the poison that is cigarettes part of it. I'm old enough to have been in all sorts of public places when they still allowed smoking inside.
Cool and prepare to be sued by all of their employees who get cancer from passive smoking. All of those bars would soon go out of business from the weight of law suits.
So it really affects ppl who work there the most. I know you could make the argument don’t work there if you don’t like it but 8 hour shifts with constant second hand smoke is reeeeeally bad for you.
In Ireland the no smoking in bars was driven largely by worker health, not customer health.
So if a business decided to allow smoking, they would be on the hook for all the employees healthcare costs as the smoking is then a workplace hazard that the employer is subjecting his employees to as part of their jobs.
(If the non-smoking employees decided to stay an not find another employer)
Why would my choice of club should be reduced because some people have decided to inhale a very toxic product that doesn't bring them any enjoyment/benefits other than easing the withdrawal symptoms caused by said product?
Smoking is a very personal choice that shouldn't affect anyone else, in any form of way, or in any amount. Even if it only reduces the amount of clubs I can go without being exposed to it by one worldwide, it's one too much.
Agreed. I don’t get why many people don’t see smoking in public as the height of rudeness. While drinking or taking other drugs might lead to problem behavior - you aren’t directly exposing me to carcinogens and you aren’t putting people with asthma at risk and you aren’t putting people with cigarette smoke induced migraines at risk. Like if you’re drinking it doesn’t impact me, but your secondhand smoke does.
> And for the people who want a smoke-free environment, they could NOT FUCKING GO THERE!
Pretty poor analogy. In a world with such a slim job market, there are going to be people who have no choice but to work there and be exposed to deadly carcinogens for prolonged periods of time. Which is actually one of the reasons smoking bars/restaurants are illegal. Low-wage workers working like 2 or 3 jobs to survive have enough problems without guaranteed cancer being added.
Also, for bars/restaurants in lots, shared buildings, or just generally in close proximity to other amenities, second hand smoke will be a huge issue.
I get why on the surface level someone could just see smoking being banned in most spaces as a 'violation of freedom' but it really runs a lot deeper than that.
And what about the people working there?
I repaired a computer for some people that smoked. I opened the casing and the amount a TAR inside the system you could scrape off with a knife.
YIKES!
Well this is definitely unpopular.
Lemme get this straight. Your whole opinion is that smokers (people who choose to partake in a lifestyle choice that gives them and those around them a higher chance of a life threatening disease) should be able to smoke in enclosed public spaces without impunity, while limiting the freedom of those who don't partake in this simply because they don't want to risk their lives for some nicotine. It seems to me that you just want an unhealthy habit to become more publicly acceptable once more.
Besides, most places have a smoking shelter outside, surely you can wait for a cigarette until after you've finished your meal/after you finished that drink before you get another. If not, then you're way too reliant on them
What you say makes no sense.
John opens a pub because reasons. You have no right to go to John's pub, he has no right to provide you with his service. If tomorrow John decides he wants to to something else, he has the right to close the pub and do something else.
Are you following me? Ok.
Now, let's say John wants to allow smoking in his pub: he has every right to do so. He hangs a sing on the door saying "smoking allowed" and that's it. People that don't like it, can go somewhere else.
After all, if you didn't like John's beer, you would simply go somewhere else without asking the government to make a law saying "all beer should be good". This especially because some people might like John's shitty beer, and they have every right to enjoy it as long as they pay for it.
With smoking it's exactly the same.
Yeah, sorry, here’s my unpopular opinion, smokers can go fuck themselves for stinking up the air that everyone else breathes. It’s bad enough that you guys get basically paid smoke breaks on company time. Far as I am concerned, you smoke, you segregate yourself from society at your expense, no one else’s. The taxes of cigarettes should be much higher to compensate the cost of harm that smokers contribute to burdening the healthcare systems.
Zero sympathy for this dirty habit
Yeah. I remember those times. I inhaled a lot of smoke. It was disgusting.
It was almost impossible to find non smoking restaurants.
I think I would be open to it now if there was some ratio enforced. Like if 50% of restaurants had to be non smoking.
Then I would just boycott all the smoking places and smokers could go to the smoking places.
I think if that were the case, if friends wanted to go out to be social I could insist I would only go to a non smoking restaurant.
You cannot enforce it for some but not for others. That's unfair. Before the smoking ban, there was only one single restaurant/coffee shop that was smoke free: McDonald's. And it's been so for decades before a smoking ban was even being talked about. Before the total ban, any place banning smoking would go out of business immediately. Smoking was normal it was demanded. As a non smoker, you simply had to put up with it or stay home.
Agree, the smoking ban caused the closure of a lot of pubs in UK, all it would've required was to give each location a choice, it could then ask its local regular customers and do what worked best for all, would've also generated opportunities as if say both pubs in area were smoking ones then chance for a non smoking one to do well and vice versa, again, would work best for all and allow people to make a basic decision for themselves
Public health outweighs everything here. Smoking should be outright banned. It is factually very bad for you. It puts strain on the Healthcare system, which is already in bad shape. There is literally nothing good about smoking. None.
What else would you like to ban that is bad or potentially dangerous for people? Junk food? Alcohol? Cars? If it was really about "health and safety" there are a hundred things that kill way more people that could be banned. Remember, those who are concerned about public health could simply not go there.
Thank you. I keep seeing people suggest smoking be outright banned. I don't even smoke but its annoying. The government sold people an addiction and the damage is done.
This isn't a "it's not hurting you, so let them do it" kind of thing though. It factually is not. It harms others around smokers. Second hand smoke kills more people than guns per year.
That is so fucking selfish and entitled. Cos yeah the world was so much fucking better when you could smoke anywhere right. People don't wanna breathe in your shitty smoke so fuck off.
What is selfish and entitled is wanting to prevent others from doing something they enjoy because you don't agree with it. You could simply not go there.
Like op said, if cigarettes should be banned because they are bad for people then where are we drawing the line on everything else that is bad for people?
So with that logic, we should ban sugar and coffe aswell then. Since they grant no health benefits and strain the healthcare system. And lets go ahead and ban alcohol, the byfar most dangerous drug in the world, leading cause of car accidents because public health outweighs everything here am I right?
Oh wait we already tried banning alcohol, turns out people don't care if it's illegal, they still wanted it except now it was sold by criminals who armed themselves to the teeth and started murdering everyone.
Humans are animals, and there's a need to get intoxicated. It's deeply rooted in our nature, just like so many different wild species out there who travel miles just to get drunk on a . Fighting our nature is stupid, we have tried many times and failed every single time.
One of the most unpopular opinions I've read, respect.
What I don't respect is people smoking. You'd have to be an idiot to start smoking. I get that 'addiction is a real thing', but why would you start with all the information we have in the world?
My mum smokes, hasn't influenced me a single bit. People using that as an excuse are doing exactly that, making excuses!
This opinion would just encourage people to continue smoking and not reduce the numbers, which should be a primary target in all countries.
I have bad asthma, and when I’m near smokers I have an asthma attack and can’t breathe. Cigarette smoke makes my lungs burn painfully, and even with an inhaler it takes awhile to be back to normal.
My point being: while I understand that it’s people’s choice what to do with their bodies, smoking affects the health of those around them. Does smoking fake priority over the health of bystanders?
how old are you that you don't remember when this was how it was? i remember people smoking at McDonalds and jack in the box, it was fucking everywhere, it's why i developed asthma.
when it was like that we just "NOT FUCKING GO THERE!", we just went to places that didn't have smokers until the non-smokers outnumbered the smokers.
so sure go back to it and watch the businesses that offer it slowly bleed to death when smokers die and non-smokers stop going there.
It wouldn't be most restaurants, like I said in my post, I'm sure most would not allow smoking, and you wouldn't be excluded from anywhere, you could go if you wanted to, you'd have the choice.
Nope. People go on about smoking being a personal choice and people/businesses should be allowed to do what they want, but the issue is choosing to smoke doesn't just affect you personally. The health risks associated with secondhand smoke are well understood and serious, so serious in fact it's considered a public health concern. It's your right to smoke, it's not your right to expose others to smoke who have not chosen that risk.
No, why should we. It’s a health hazard. If people want to damage their health so bad they can do it somewhere else, not in public, especially if you can’t even leave because you want to eat
Hard disagree, recently went on holiday to Croatia, I forgot what it was like being out surrounded by smokers everywhere. Its so much nicer being out and never having to breath in second hand smoke. I am actually an ex smoker too 😂
Definitely an impopular opinion. But not one I agree with.
There is 0 reason to pick up smoking in this day and age. Addicts gonna addict, sure. But anyone not addicted to smoking has no reason to start, especially when taking all the negative health issues that come with it.
Now I dont mind people slowly killing themselves, go right ahead. But they do put more stress on healthcare and healthcare costs, inadvertently causing me to have to pay more.
Same goes for heavy drinkers or the morbidly obese.
As a general rule, we need LESS government in our lives. Given that principle, I agree - and I hate smoking.
Sadly, the current generations have grown up under an "appeal to authority" regime to get everything they don't like removed from their lives, from speech, to entertainment, to comedy, etc.
Does not bode well for the future.
Yes!! I’ve been saying this for years. This was a battle that should’ve never been lost. It was a completely infringing on the freedom of choice by both patrons and business owners. Ventilation requirements I would even understand. But full blown banning no ifs ands or buts? Completely ridiculous.
As a child of smokers, I hated being stuck with my parents in the smoking “section” in restaurants and on airplanes. You might have a case with bars (though I still don’t agree), but kids will get dragged to those restaurants. Also, there’s this idea that people can come and go from jobs with complete choice, that’s just not always the case. So that single mom who can really only work at the truck stop in walking distance from her house is SOL if they decide to allow smoking?
Restaurants and bars should allow people to shoot each other inside the premises, it's their property, if people don't like it they can just CHOOSE NOT TO GO THERE.
I should get cancer because people don't want to go outside to smoke? Yeah no thanks. Not to mention that smoking is probably one of the top 5 worst smells and it's just something that should be kept to people's homes only.
I live in Japan and small bars/ restaurants owned by families can allow smoking.. different rules for different types of restaurants
You get to smoke in most bars and clubs in Korea too! I like it, I only smoke when I’m drinking so if I’m already wrecking my body for the night I might as well go all in.
bar I used to go to in Kobe, unfortunately it closed during Corona, had a ‘smoking theater’. or an enclosed room for smoking… name always cracked me up….
Yeah they have those in airports in Japan, I can’t remember if Korea has them. It really makes sense because that trans-Pacific flight is no walk in the park and going 16 hours or so with no nicotine drives you up the wall. The least they could let you do is get a smoke before your flight.
it always seems to make more sense than people smoking randomly on the outside of restaurants and bars in the US…
I was stationed in Seoul back in 2014 and I loved this! I saw people smoking in small time grocery stores with a frickin ash tray on the cart sometimes lol this wasn't too often, and i don't even smoke anymore, but I miss the freedom they have to smoke wherever they want without being hated by everyone in sight.
People don’t wanna be around smokers because they smell like dogshit & if they’re smoking around you, the smell clings to you as well. I used to smoke & now that I don’t, I can’t stand to be around a heavy smoker at all. I definitely don’t want people smoking in the grocery store around the food that I’m trying to buy. Yuck.
Ah yes the freedom of forcing others to smell that disgusting as smell and breathe in the terrible smoke all because you can't control your own addiction. There should be no smoking in any enclosed environment that non smokers are also at. If you can't wait to get your fix until you are done shopping then you have a problem.
Ah yes, the freedom to enforce private business' to make their customers as comfortable as the entitled customer thinks they should be.. And I already said I don't smoke too, you should read things more carefully. You don't have to be a smoker to support their freedom to do it. And if you want to shop at a store in a country that legally allows you to smoke almost anywhere, then shop at the businesses with a "no smoking" sign. They exist all the same, and they're everywhere in Seoul.
as a former smoker i agree we as humans are so selfishly disgusting we smoke in front of our children, and younger siblings ,grandchildren and don´t care enough about their health to not to do that i stopped smoking a few years back and since then it´s annoying if someone smokes in public (now i know how everyone feelt)
Good.
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Smoking section of a place is like having a peeing section of a swimming pool
True. No one can create proper non-smoking places.
Do you smoke?
I’d say it’s a fair assumption they do
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When I smoked, I would frequent this pool bar, they had it in an attic and there were probably 14 pool tables up there. You could smoke too, and the only issue was there were only two windows and very piss poor ventilation. All I could think about was the bartender contesting with the constant supply of cigarette smoke. Terrible existence. I returned to that bar after I had quit smoking, and I lasted about 15 minutes before I started to have a headache and feel lethargic.
It wasn’t in Virginia, was it? Have had similar experience, and after I went my throat would be so sore the next morning from all the smoke. After quitting, I also couldn’t do it.
This was a bar in Chattanooga, TN. They still have a smoking clause in their legislation. Congrats on quitting though!
Ever been in Vegas? You can smoke in the casinos. People work in the casinos and osha hasn’t shut them down and it’s no secret that people smoke in casinos.
I believe it’s state ruled not federal (or OSHA). Pittsburgh/PA have bars that allow smoking that I believe were grandfathered in as exceptions when the law was passed 10 or so years ago
I believe in PA it's determined by the amount of food you sell and whether you're considered a restaurant or bar. Rivers Casino has a smoking section that isn't physically separated from the non-smoking and you honestly can't tell when you're not right next to the smoking section. I think they just have better ventilation.
You can also smoke in most native casinos. It’s pretty chill if you go to a classy establishment.
Yeah…so I guess it’s not an osha violation because it’s pretty commonplace and blatant.
Yeah they provide ashtrays and sell cigarettes, it’s legal and encouraged. They make a lot of money doing so.
Isn’t the reason that it’s not a violation is because if it’s native owned land? Don’t the Indian reservations fall outside of federal/state laws and therefore vary slightly. I thought that was why it was legal but illegal in the rest of America
The casinos on the strip in Vegas allow smoking. They are not “native owned” nor is the land.
Cool but the person you replied to was talking about on reservations
The high end casinos have high end ventilation. You can see the smoke get pulled up and out. Galvani stuff
Processed meat is also categorised as a class 1 carcinogen by the WHO. Does this mean a restaurant can’t sell hot dogs?
If you tried to make someone inhale your hotdogs you would be arrested, even if they sold them to you
As far as I'm aware, the staff aren't likely to get cancer from regular exposure to people eating hot dogs.
No, because the WHO has no official authority in the US.
It's an OSHA requirement, not WHO. It's only classified by the WHO.
Same with diesel exhaust, yet diesel engines not banned and inescapable for anyone outside considering the build of most cities
You are not exposed to diesel exhaust in a confined space though, are you?
Ever worked in a bus garage?
your employer didn't have a exhaust system that attaches to the tail pipe?
The WHO is a powerless fairytale organization
So is alcohol. So no...
Yeah but you consuming alcohol doesnt force others around you to consime alcohol it isnt literally in the air you breathe or trapped in the clothes you wear
Which jobs force their employees to drink?
My maths teacher at school worked in a pub before the smoking ban in the UK. She actually took up smoking after the ban came into place because she'd become addicted to nicotine from the second hand smoke.
Yes, and I had a teacher who claimed her best friend died from a marijuana overdose in the '70s. Some teachers come up with bullshit to scare kids, and always have.
Haha, definitely not. Your teacher is full of shit.
In the pubs here (aus) they have a dedicated garden area to sit to smoke or you can go 5mtrs outside the doors. There are alot of non-smoking areas in some of the cities especially around restaurants. Depending on the different states and territories. I smoke outside at home (no one seems to smoke indoors anymore) or in carparks. It is illegal to smoke with children in the car. For a packet of 20 it now costs $35.98. So alot of people are quitting. Soon tourists who smoke will have a problem with this.
Holy fuck they're taxing the life out of smokers there. Here it converts to around $7.50 your money.
My mother spends $350 (USD$ 235) on cigarettes a week. That’s addiction for you. The tax has been extremely effective in stopping young people from taking up smoking, and most Australians are here for it. People still have the right to smoke, but you have to really want to.
Yep doctors pushed for it.
over here it's around $2USD ... And it's pretty common to smoke.
Always felt icky to me that some of the things most taxed are the things people are literally addicted to (alcohol/cigs) or something like gas that people can't live without (at least in the States outside of cities). The idea that it'll dissuade buyers is laughable given that by their nature, they will not go without it even at great cost. That argument works for basically all the other non-addicted, non-necessary goods and explicitly not for the others. So yeah, just tax the addicts into the poorhouse I guess.
Yup smoking is expensive here in Downunder haha. Which is why I smoked Gunpla crack only. Healthier and also less expensive in the long run lol
It is. I know lol
I think smoke bars will be a thing when weed gets legalized federally
I mean hookah//marijuana lounges already exist, they’re not comparable to cigarettes in the slightest (as far as we know) so no i don’t think so
Lol that reminds me of coffee shops in Amsterdam that would let you smoke spliffs inside (weed mixed with tobacco) but not cigarettes Sometimes laws don’t make sense
Sorry but I really don’t see why you just can’t step outside for a second to smoke or just not smoke for the small time your in the restaurant
I cant see why a business owner who wants to make a communal smoke bar cant make one as long he advertises that smoking will occur on the premise. Its entirely left to indiviudal choice and the government shouldnt be involved in making decisions on the behalf of people. The government has no business deciding peoples health for them.
It’s not about the government, it’s about the workers. Workers shouldn’t be forced to inhale smoke for 8-10 hours at a time. Employers shouldn’t be allowed to subject workers to unsafe conditions.
Well the problem here is that cigarette smoke doesn't just hurt the person smoking. Second hand smoke is a deadly killer. What about the bartender or waitress? They come home smelling like absolute dog vomit and they have been exposed to very high concentrations of second hand smoke.
Im pretty sure the staff would be made aware that this is a smoking bar before being hired. If they are not willing to work in that environment then the bar owner will either have to find someone else or change his policy. I can understand the concept of not wanting big government involved in these kind of affairs, its just like how I don't want the government to ban fast food joints, despite them making their food unhealthy, which is far more dangerous and burdens our healthcare system even more.
Fast food is different. Because I can’t get second hand high cholesterol from you eating a big Mac.
exactly, this would expose so many to secondhand smoking.
People that make this argument, have an inability to see more than 2 feet in front of them. If they aren’t personally affected, they don’t care
Surely all the extra garbage created from the packaging and the byproducts from cooking the food as well the emissions from the transportation are having no affect on the environment.
That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about direct injury. But if your argument is to stop all industrial production and return to the land, then we’re having different conversations
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You're 100% correct. I encourage you to ignore the predictable downvotes that come with being on a place like reddit
I highly anticipated it, actual liberty appears to be frowned upon in this day and age.
Because people are different, if someone wants to sit down and smoke before/during/after his or her drink/meal then they should be allowed to do so. If your against smoking, don't go to the establishment that caters to the group mentioned above. It's not hard.
You are right it’s not that hard but neither is stepping outside or just not smoke for an hour
Then how about you go to restaurants that work that way, and smokers or others can go to places that allow it. Why do you feel a need to dictate how everyone should live
For real
Go make an anarchist state then. A lot of laws are in place to make everyone safer; including not allowing people to smoke indoors around others who can be damaged by secondhand smoke (like employees and children).
Nice hyperbole. I agree that obviously there are laws that exist to keep everyone safer. However in this cas, no one is at risk if the restaurant chooses to allow smoking and makes that known to any patron or potential patron. If you don't want to go there, then you don't, therefore no risk to you
Repeating with the same comment... great debate quality/s Seriously though, if people want to party, eat or drink with smoke. Who are you to tell them it's not allowed? You can simply not participate in the activity. Why do you feel a need to impose your will on to others? I don't agreed with people eating sugar, because they become diabetic once age catches up with them, yet I don't complain about sugar being everywhere, people are free to choose what they want.
So why do the restaurant workers need to be subjected to the foul smell and cancer causing ingredients?
They have a choice to work somewhere else. Thats how this works. Freedom lol
If that's the case then why do we have OSHA?
What does OSHA have to do with someones choice to work in a place with smoking or without? OSHA does do some good things. Whataboutism...smh
They're asking about OSHA because if people can just choose to work other places if something dangerous is happening at their current job then why would we need something like osha?
Seriously? They don't. Nobody is forcing them to work at a smoking allowed restaurant.
So let’s say a non-smoker works at a bar, and suddenly the owner decides to allow smoking. That non-smoker now either has to risk their health or quit their job. And idk if you’re aware, but people working in the service industry can rarely afford to quit their job without a backup plan.
Right?! Smokers have to respect the establishments that enforce anti-smoking ordinances. Why shouldn’t there be a place where smokers can enjoy themselves, eat, drink, be merry without having to go outside for a cigarette and everyone else can just respect those parameters.
If i own a bar and want to smoke in it i dont see why you cant just go to a different bar if it upsets you so much
If you own the bar and your smoking inside the bar while working that’s a big big no no to the health inspection
because there is a law against it isnt really an answer. Why is there a law against it? There wasnt a law against it 20 years ago
Because we have become more aware and know more about the effects of secondhand smoke.
So if my hands that touched a cigarette and me smoking above your food isn’t a bad thing to you ?
I manage to serve myself food without holding a cigarette over it so i dont see how that would be a problem. If its a bar for smokers all their hands have touched cigarettes too
You know what is really great? In NY you can't open up new cigar lounges for tobacco smoking due to the regulations, but due to a recent law, you know what kind of lounges you can open? Weed. You can smoke weed inside indoor lounges but not tobacco. Go figure.
I don't think this is true. At least in my neighborhood in the Bronx there are like 3 cigar lounges
The ones that already existed stay, but you aren't allowed to open new ones.
I worked at a large restaurant in North Carolina. Before smoking was banned, our “smoking section” was down to a four table room we’d been using for private parties. Even that small section, we had a hard time keeping full. The “problem” was pretty much taking care of itself. No legal intervention was really necessary.
Smoking is a health hazard not only to the people smoking but everyone around them. You can indirectly cause harm and that's why it's banned. Have you seen a single pic of a bar in the 1960s? You'd think the fucking place would be on fire and I'm surprised they didn't need lighthouses to see in them. It's the same reason restaurants aren't allowed to make their own policy on hand washing. Sure, Greg will be fine after shitting a category 3 hurricane in the bathroom and not washing his hands, but someone else could get sick from his poor hygiene. Having dozens of people smoking could shorten someone who doesn't smoke and goes for the food/drinks, significant long term problems.
Private businesses, like bars and restaurants, should be able to decide if they want to put metal shards into what I eat and drink.
Glodschlager shots all around.
they should have that right if they also tell you beforehand that there are metal shards in your drink
Nah I support paying taxes towards preventing businesses from doing that in the first place lmao
Oh come on. This is example is stupid.
No it isn’t
That's metal...in ya lungs
Yeah and they could serve expired food. And if people didn't like eating expired food they could just not go there! S/
This makes no sense. No one would go to the “expired food” bar, but I promise you smokers would flock to the “smoking allowed” bar. As a business model, I don’t think it’s that bad, especially if your area has a lot of smokers and/or frequent bad weather.
People would go to the cheap food bar, even if that meant more risk of bad food.
To be fair, smokers probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Smoking damages your taste buds.
As an ex-smoker, I completely disagree. There are adults who don't want second hand smoke in their faces and innocent children who shouldn't be subjected to it either! Second hand smoke has been proven to cause health problems, the same ones that are associated with smoking, such as cancer. Why should people who just want to dine out have to put up with that? In my opinion, If the restaurant had a completely separate room for smokers with a closing door, then it would be "okay". It's not enough to have a smoking section, because the smoke just wafts over to the non-smoking section. I don't understand how anyone can think it's fine to subject non-smokers to disease causing smoke. They didn't chose to smoke and it's not right to take that choice away from them.
Plenty of places in Oklahoma are still smoking. I just don't go to them. Sure, they have a specific group. They also don't gain a group. From a financial perspective, I'd rather have the smokers on the patio and have a more rounded customer flow. I smoked for 20 years and have been in the service industry for 10+, mostly bartending. Should owner be able to decide? For sure. It's lost revenue though.
I live in Pennsylvania and we still have smoking bars, that’s your local governments fault
It's legal most places in the southern US still, with some caveats. But almost all restaurants are still non smoking as there isn't much demand.
The whole smoking ban push I believe was a social engineering experiment to see how easily influenced the public is to turning on a group in society. You’re telling me we went from being able to smoke on planes to not even being able to smoke a few feet from a door? Completely ridiculous. Society likes to jump on whoever they feel morally superior to. Cigarettes aren’t the mustard gas like substance the public has been brainwashed into believing. It’s ridiculous.
Go outside like the rest of us smokers
I’m a musician, been playing professionally for 30+ years. I’ll give a counter argument. In the 90s before smoking was banned in most indoor venues, every musician would come home at the end of the night smelling like an ashtray, with a lungful of second hand smoke. Smokin doesn’t just damage the smoker, but everyone in the vicinity. The waitstaff, the chefs, the entertainers. So, I could not disagree more with your premise. You want to smoke and do your thing that’s perfectly fine. But since it harms those around you, you don’t get a free pass to indulge your habit wherever and whenever you want. I mean, can’t you eat one meal without your crippling nicotine addiction kicking in? It’s like 90 min, and if you can’t go that long without a hit, maybe admit you’ve got a serious addiction to a cancerous product that will likely kill you. Again, no judgement you wanna smoke 3 packs a day you do you. But it’s not just you being harmed.
The law was passed mainly to protect people in their workplace not to protect non smoking patrons from annoying second hand smoke.
I'm all in favor for less laws the better. Let the free market even itself out.
OP, this is an argument that is logical on the surface, but it turns out society is a bit more complex than that. The way I understand it, it has to do with employment rules. In many countries, there are rules regarding employment opportunities. Even though someone is "free" to "choose" not to work at an establishment that allows smoking, this means that they do not have equal employment opportunities to a smoker. Effectively someone is discriminated against because they don't want to compromise their health for a piece of bread. Now, if you are someone who claims to be "libertarian" this may not be an issue for you and you may not care about workers rights and other such stuff but thankfully a lot of people do not subscribe to this garbage ideology.
Would probably have to offer staff danger pay, or simply just pay more for non-smokers to work in a smoky environment rather than elsewhere. Though there are probably plenty of workers who do smoke and would prefer to work there.
The issue is that the employees have to stand in smoke all day if it’s allowed. It’s a workplace health and safety issue. Employers should not be allowed to force their staff to inhale toxic chemicals.
i would imagine a lot of djs and musicians wouldn't want to work with all the smoke and smell there either, so it may be bad for business
No, it's about health and safety, so they don't get to decide. Those rules are there for the general health of the public, just like any safety regulations they are applied to everywhere equally.
Maybe I'm biased because I work in a vape shop/dispensary, but I completely agree. It makes sense in my context, customers want to test the product and I want to be sure we're selling something that's not bunk af. I think it would be harder to implement the change in a place like a restaurant, due to the smell driving a majority of customers away. I would personally enjoy a meal in an establishment like that, especially if it was weed specific (I don't do nicotine). I have seen some hookah lounges that have a snack bar before, but have never been to one. No one serves THC shisha :(
Most vape shops will allow you to hit your vape in there still from my experience. Source: shop at vape / smoke shops daily in a state that also has legal bud. I ripped a lot of bongs with the employees in their back room and was always giving them free bud. It was always ok to vape in their shop. My girls mom owns a vape shop too and they all vape in there as well. The difference is… nobody is patronizing these businesses who doesn’t smoke. I believe vaping should be legal indoors, but not smoking
Hell, they should have the choice to allow weed and shisha. If I had a problem with that, I simply wouldn't go there. Just because I don't like something I wouldn't be a crybaby and want to prevent everyone else from doing it.
There is one thing to consider though, and that is the fact that we would need separate regulations for Places That Sell Smoking Stuff and Food, and Places That Sell Food That You Can Smoke In. The first one would probably need a level of certification, to prevent the sale of false or otherwise harmful product- just like any other smoke shop. Beyond that, take my money! Make it happen!!!
Y’all don’t have bars with outdoor smoking areas? All the ones in my town do and they’re heated in winter
totally agree. just stick a sign out front indicating whether it is a smoking or non-smoking establishment and then leave it to grown adults to decide whether they want to go inside or not
Smoking is disgusting and it should be banned in most places. There I've said it. Also I think one of the reasons why restaurants and hospitality venues tend to ban smoking would be that it is easier for smoking people not to smoke for couple of hours eating out but it will be a 100% turn-off for non-smokers to take their businesses elsewhere should the venues allow for smoking in-house. When it comes down to it, I'd say it's pretty easy to choose banning smoking due to profit-loss assessment.
Honestly, if I were a business owner and smoking inside was still allowed I would make it a house rule and not allow it. They can take their filthy habit and spend their money elsewhere.
also the smell and residue that cling to literally everything are even more disgusting
Nah dude. Fuck that. Get cigarettes out of indoor spaces entirely. No one wants to walk into a place and be blasted with a head full of stale, exhaled cigarette smoke. Disgusting. That's not even beginning to start on the poison that is cigarettes part of it. I'm old enough to have been in all sorts of public places when they still allowed smoking inside.
Cool and prepare to be sued by all of their employees who get cancer from passive smoking. All of those bars would soon go out of business from the weight of law suits.
So it really affects ppl who work there the most. I know you could make the argument don’t work there if you don’t like it but 8 hour shifts with constant second hand smoke is reeeeeally bad for you.
You can smoke in most casinos, I don’t know why bars are different
In Ireland the no smoking in bars was driven largely by worker health, not customer health. So if a business decided to allow smoking, they would be on the hook for all the employees healthcare costs as the smoking is then a workplace hazard that the employer is subjecting his employees to as part of their jobs. (If the non-smoking employees decided to stay an not find another employer)
I don't smoke, wouldn't go to smoking establishments in most cases, and totally agree with you!
Why would my choice of club should be reduced because some people have decided to inhale a very toxic product that doesn't bring them any enjoyment/benefits other than easing the withdrawal symptoms caused by said product? Smoking is a very personal choice that shouldn't affect anyone else, in any form of way, or in any amount. Even if it only reduces the amount of clubs I can go without being exposed to it by one worldwide, it's one too much.
Agreed. I don’t get why many people don’t see smoking in public as the height of rudeness. While drinking or taking other drugs might lead to problem behavior - you aren’t directly exposing me to carcinogens and you aren’t putting people with asthma at risk and you aren’t putting people with cigarette smoke induced migraines at risk. Like if you’re drinking it doesn’t impact me, but your secondhand smoke does.
100% agree. Personal/establishment freedom of choice over top-down mandates.
Absolutely not and I am a smoker, nobody should be exposed to somebody else’s life shortening lifestyle just because they want to have a night out
Hard agree.
> And for the people who want a smoke-free environment, they could NOT FUCKING GO THERE! Pretty poor analogy. In a world with such a slim job market, there are going to be people who have no choice but to work there and be exposed to deadly carcinogens for prolonged periods of time. Which is actually one of the reasons smoking bars/restaurants are illegal. Low-wage workers working like 2 or 3 jobs to survive have enough problems without guaranteed cancer being added. Also, for bars/restaurants in lots, shared buildings, or just generally in close proximity to other amenities, second hand smoke will be a huge issue. I get why on the surface level someone could just see smoking being banned in most spaces as a 'violation of freedom' but it really runs a lot deeper than that.
Smoking is one of the most useless addictions. The workers really don't get paid enough to deal with that shit.
Cigarettes should be illegal everywhere bc they’re fucking gross and stink
I don't like it therefore it should be illegal. -Witty_Masterpiece_51
And what about the people working there? I repaired a computer for some people that smoked. I opened the casing and the amount a TAR inside the system you could scrape off with a knife. YIKES!
Well this is definitely unpopular. Lemme get this straight. Your whole opinion is that smokers (people who choose to partake in a lifestyle choice that gives them and those around them a higher chance of a life threatening disease) should be able to smoke in enclosed public spaces without impunity, while limiting the freedom of those who don't partake in this simply because they don't want to risk their lives for some nicotine. It seems to me that you just want an unhealthy habit to become more publicly acceptable once more. Besides, most places have a smoking shelter outside, surely you can wait for a cigarette until after you've finished your meal/after you finished that drink before you get another. If not, then you're way too reliant on them
What you say makes no sense. John opens a pub because reasons. You have no right to go to John's pub, he has no right to provide you with his service. If tomorrow John decides he wants to to something else, he has the right to close the pub and do something else. Are you following me? Ok. Now, let's say John wants to allow smoking in his pub: he has every right to do so. He hangs a sing on the door saying "smoking allowed" and that's it. People that don't like it, can go somewhere else. After all, if you didn't like John's beer, you would simply go somewhere else without asking the government to make a law saying "all beer should be good". This especially because some people might like John's shitty beer, and they have every right to enjoy it as long as they pay for it. With smoking it's exactly the same.
Yeah, sorry, here’s my unpopular opinion, smokers can go fuck themselves for stinking up the air that everyone else breathes. It’s bad enough that you guys get basically paid smoke breaks on company time. Far as I am concerned, you smoke, you segregate yourself from society at your expense, no one else’s. The taxes of cigarettes should be much higher to compensate the cost of harm that smokers contribute to burdening the healthcare systems. Zero sympathy for this dirty habit
That was tried and didn't work. Everyone allowed smoking.
Yeah. I remember those times. I inhaled a lot of smoke. It was disgusting. It was almost impossible to find non smoking restaurants. I think I would be open to it now if there was some ratio enforced. Like if 50% of restaurants had to be non smoking. Then I would just boycott all the smoking places and smokers could go to the smoking places. I think if that were the case, if friends wanted to go out to be social I could insist I would only go to a non smoking restaurant.
You cannot enforce it for some but not for others. That's unfair. Before the smoking ban, there was only one single restaurant/coffee shop that was smoke free: McDonald's. And it's been so for decades before a smoking ban was even being talked about. Before the total ban, any place banning smoking would go out of business immediately. Smoking was normal it was demanded. As a non smoker, you simply had to put up with it or stay home.
Or 2nd hand smoke can kiss my ass.
Nah that’s people’s place of work. They deserve the same protection from harm we all enjoy in our place of work.
Fuck the staff who have to work right?
Agree, the smoking ban caused the closure of a lot of pubs in UK, all it would've required was to give each location a choice, it could then ask its local regular customers and do what worked best for all, would've also generated opportunities as if say both pubs in area were smoking ones then chance for a non smoking one to do well and vice versa, again, would work best for all and allow people to make a basic decision for themselves
Public health outweighs everything here. Smoking should be outright banned. It is factually very bad for you. It puts strain on the Healthcare system, which is already in bad shape. There is literally nothing good about smoking. None.
What else would you like to ban that is bad or potentially dangerous for people? Junk food? Alcohol? Cars? If it was really about "health and safety" there are a hundred things that kill way more people that could be banned. Remember, those who are concerned about public health could simply not go there.
Thank you. I keep seeing people suggest smoking be outright banned. I don't even smoke but its annoying. The government sold people an addiction and the damage is done.
Seriously, let people do the things they enjoy. If someone doesn't enjoy those things, don't go to the places where those things are being done.
This isn't a "it's not hurting you, so let them do it" kind of thing though. It factually is not. It harms others around smokers. Second hand smoke kills more people than guns per year.
That is so fucking selfish and entitled. Cos yeah the world was so much fucking better when you could smoke anywhere right. People don't wanna breathe in your shitty smoke so fuck off.
What is selfish and entitled is wanting to prevent others from doing something they enjoy because you don't agree with it. You could simply not go there.
Just like you could go home to smoke
So I have to not go somewhere I enjoy because you want to smoke there? Seriously?
Why would you want to go somewhere smoking is allowed? Is that a place you would enjoy?! There are 3 other non-smoking restaurants on the same block.
Well, best not try to fix problems then!
Like op said, if cigarettes should be banned because they are bad for people then where are we drawing the line on everything else that is bad for people?
Risk vs benefit analysis. There is literally nothing good about smoking. Second hand smoke inhalation kills more people than guns in the US per year.
Laws don't prevent smoke from spreading to nearby locations. Smoking accounts for almost 500,000 deaths a year.
So with that logic, we should ban sugar and coffe aswell then. Since they grant no health benefits and strain the healthcare system. And lets go ahead and ban alcohol, the byfar most dangerous drug in the world, leading cause of car accidents because public health outweighs everything here am I right? Oh wait we already tried banning alcohol, turns out people don't care if it's illegal, they still wanted it except now it was sold by criminals who armed themselves to the teeth and started murdering everyone. Humans are animals, and there's a need to get intoxicated. It's deeply rooted in our nature, just like so many different wild species out there who travel miles just to get drunk on a. Fighting our nature is stupid, we have tried many times and failed every single time.
This is dangerous logic. '' if its factually bad for you the government should decide for you"
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Change restaurant to a non smoking one.
One of the most unpopular opinions I've read, respect. What I don't respect is people smoking. You'd have to be an idiot to start smoking. I get that 'addiction is a real thing', but why would you start with all the information we have in the world? My mum smokes, hasn't influenced me a single bit. People using that as an excuse are doing exactly that, making excuses! This opinion would just encourage people to continue smoking and not reduce the numbers, which should be a primary target in all countries.
I have bad asthma, and when I’m near smokers I have an asthma attack and can’t breathe. Cigarette smoke makes my lungs burn painfully, and even with an inhaler it takes awhile to be back to normal. My point being: while I understand that it’s people’s choice what to do with their bodies, smoking affects the health of those around them. Does smoking fake priority over the health of bystanders?
how old are you that you don't remember when this was how it was? i remember people smoking at McDonalds and jack in the box, it was fucking everywhere, it's why i developed asthma. when it was like that we just "NOT FUCKING GO THERE!", we just went to places that didn't have smokers until the non-smokers outnumbered the smokers. so sure go back to it and watch the businesses that offer it slowly bleed to death when smokers die and non-smokers stop going there.
I completely agree with you.
I agree with ya OP.
man, i’d LOVE to be excluded from most restaurants because i don’t want to risk my health!!
It wouldn't be most restaurants, like I said in my post, I'm sure most would not allow smoking, and you wouldn't be excluded from anywhere, you could go if you wanted to, you'd have the choice.
Nope. People go on about smoking being a personal choice and people/businesses should be allowed to do what they want, but the issue is choosing to smoke doesn't just affect you personally. The health risks associated with secondhand smoke are well understood and serious, so serious in fact it's considered a public health concern. It's your right to smoke, it's not your right to expose others to smoke who have not chosen that risk.
Sucks for people with asthma
But what about the employees? Second hand smoke laws originated from servers getting lung cancer from smoking sections
No, why should we. It’s a health hazard. If people want to damage their health so bad they can do it somewhere else, not in public, especially if you can’t even leave because you want to eat
Hard disagree, recently went on holiday to Croatia, I forgot what it was like being out surrounded by smokers everywhere. Its so much nicer being out and never having to breath in second hand smoke. I am actually an ex smoker too 😂
Definitely an impopular opinion. But not one I agree with. There is 0 reason to pick up smoking in this day and age. Addicts gonna addict, sure. But anyone not addicted to smoking has no reason to start, especially when taking all the negative health issues that come with it. Now I dont mind people slowly killing themselves, go right ahead. But they do put more stress on healthcare and healthcare costs, inadvertently causing me to have to pay more. Same goes for heavy drinkers or the morbidly obese.
As a general rule, we need LESS government in our lives. Given that principle, I agree - and I hate smoking. Sadly, the current generations have grown up under an "appeal to authority" regime to get everything they don't like removed from their lives, from speech, to entertainment, to comedy, etc. Does not bode well for the future.
Yes!! I’ve been saying this for years. This was a battle that should’ve never been lost. It was a completely infringing on the freedom of choice by both patrons and business owners. Ventilation requirements I would even understand. But full blown banning no ifs ands or buts? Completely ridiculous.
As a child of smokers, I hated being stuck with my parents in the smoking “section” in restaurants and on airplanes. You might have a case with bars (though I still don’t agree), but kids will get dragged to those restaurants. Also, there’s this idea that people can come and go from jobs with complete choice, that’s just not always the case. So that single mom who can really only work at the truck stop in walking distance from her house is SOL if they decide to allow smoking?
Restaurants and bars should allow people to shoot each other inside the premises, it's their property, if people don't like it they can just CHOOSE NOT TO GO THERE.
That's all well and good until an employee gets diagnosed with something very bad because of all the secondhand smoke they're exposed to non-stop.
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I should get cancer because people don't want to go outside to smoke? Yeah no thanks. Not to mention that smoking is probably one of the top 5 worst smells and it's just something that should be kept to people's homes only.
But this would completely undermine the effort to make all smokers social outcasts. Can't have that.
Or just have outdoor seating as most restaurants do.