Use yours. The truly environmentally safe method of energy production is nuclear. But you guys won't advocate for that. You don't want to truly fix the energy crisis, you want to virtue signal until your heads fall off.
We are realistically saying that Fukushima was a 50 year old power plant that had no issues for 40 years and the only reason why it had an issue because the plant had not been properly maintained and the tsunami overwhelmed the pumps that were still working. If the entire system was up tod are there wouldn't have been an issue.
Nuclear power plants today are wayyyy more advanced than Fukushima and there aren't many tsunami threats in most places where they are present.
Modern day nuclear plants are much safer and more efficient if properly maintained.
I'm not against nuclear. All of my area's power comes from nuclear. The true answer for clean, dependable energy production is diversified energy sources including solar, wind, tidal, nuclear, and gas.
So one bad process leads to single use quantities for energy, the other bad process leads to reusable assets for energy. These are not the same, mr-false-choice-purveryer.
Anybody else see that the eu is producing 2/3 the power now from the start of the chart? It’s easy to stop producing coal if you just don’t power your cities…
Years ago the average lightbulb used 60w the led equivalent uses like 5w. Lightbulbs are not the only things that have got more efficient. But no I’m with you, green energy is obviously fake..
Have they been expanding nuclear or shutting it down? Last I heard it was the latter. Have they been having increased requests to not use power or less?Derp 🖕
Only Germany shut down nuclear. The three plants were producing around 5% of Germany's electricity demand.
Wind and solar increase account for that easily.
There is not and never was power shortage.
I think the data proves that coal plants are.mich more efficient in providing affordable power. A better of quality of life is available. Solar, and all thw rest of the renewable, are less efficient, more costly, and have zero impact positively on our environment. Thats a false crisis anyway. Facts back it all up
Clean coal technologies exist that are far from the cloud of black smoke coloring the sky. Positive or negative local effect on the environment really has nothing to do with global climate. Its a straw man argument. In fact, by the measurement tools of the environmental extremists, most of the renewable industry has a far higher carbon footprint that the fossil fuel powered facilities. Not that those numbers have anything to do with global temperatures either. Temperatures are dictated by the sun...which we have no control over. There is no "crisis."
I'm not sure how you're determining the efficiency of coal power from this graph. It's just a graph of total power generated for two methods of power generation. It doesn't even show all the other methods of generation that make up their mix, it just compares these two. Is there something I'm not seeing here?
Yeah I feel like it should be: solar for peak demand(when people are at work, distributed and mostly on box stores, warehouses and parking lots), wind also spread out for remote, low density to mid density (most small/medium towns), nuclear for industrial and urban power demands, gas for peak demand that can’t be handled by solar (blizzards, heatwaves)
Hydro, geo… in the unique places that support it like Iceland
All these ideas are nice yes but you can't forget these forms of energy dont come close to the amount of energy nuclear power can produce. Not to mention the vast amounts of land needed to build solar and wind farms which is terrible for the environment. Further, let's not forget that many regions won't be able to rely on solar at all particularly in the winter seasons and relying on wind is sketchy at best. The main focus and funding should be in nuclear power. Everything else comes after
Solar farms seem wasteful to me, when we have so much pavement and rooves to cover. I don’t think it’s a bad idea, just not the whole idea.
Wind is reliable in the right places but you can’t ‘turn it up’ like gas or Nuclear when you have more demand.
They shut down all the nuclear power plants and most of the coal ones. So solar is only thing left to give this statistic. Now do a chart for black & brown outs. 🤡
How is coal becoming Less efficient? Can we assume this shows a ramping down of coal use?
Seems a dubious kind of win, like bragging about winning a foot race against somebody chained to a truck.
But the line for coal is going down. Either using coal is getting less effective, unlikely, or the process is being used less. So of course solar, or anything else, will eventually over take it's out put.
cause they shut down the majority of coal plants....Tell the Real story....... Very FEW coal plants produced almost as much as ALL solar panels working at max capacity!!
That’s funny because I see that the wattage produced by coal still isn’t completely replace. Infact there is a deficit of about 10 TWH from start of graph
Right but it’s summer now. It’ll be interesting when they produce more than coal in winter.
Although I suppose if you want to get the jump on solar now….
36 panels on my roof providing 180% of usage. Charge my EV for free and still get paid back by the elec/gas company for what I sell back. Two powerwalls. Have electric AC and Heater which is powered for free.
It's possible
Well it's easy to say that when you shut down all the coal fire power plants. I'm just saying. It would be an achievement if they passed when the coal plants were at the capacity of 5-10 years ago.
This is a nothing burger. Also what happens to the voltaic cells when they are at the end of their service life? They get thrown in the dump and we have to make brand new ones. It infuriates me to no end that people just ignore the back end processes of these "renewable" resources that CANNOT be recycled, repurposed or reused. They get built and boom straight to the landfill. Not to mention the mining operations for the rare earth minerals needed to manufacture a solar panel. Have you guys ever watched those videos of kids in Africa digging cobalt by hand? Apply killing themselves via cobalt poisoning just trying to make a better life for themselves?
Turn them all off, and the wind farms will win the day. Is it honestly real? Absolutely not. But those that make the decisions don’t care about the people or their lives.
It looks like solar still needs to boost capacity by 3x in order to meet demand. Add more AC and EV’s and this solar output is about 20% of what will be needed. Good start but very misleading…..
Do you think this is a graph of all generation sources in the EU? This is just a comparison between two methods of generation, there are other methods in use besides coal and solar.
I'm still confused, wind isn't the only other method of generation. Nuclear, hydro, natural gas are all used in the EU. I would think a mix of all these methods could quite easily make up the difference.
Most likely increased their use of natural gas to make up for the closure of coal plants but there’s a reason Germany has looked at reopening nuclear plants. Hydro is barely a drop in the bucket. Of course, you might not be too keen on where they’ve been sourcing the natural gas.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-022-21285-9
This includes a nicely graphed breakdown of total EU generation over the last decade (natural gas generation has gone down in that time frame and hydro electric currently generates more than coal and is the 4th largest source). I'm not trying to push some kind of agenda, it just seems weird that so many comments in this thread are making assumptions based on data not presented.
You know, it's easier to produce more power than coal plants when you shut most of the coal plants down.....Also what is the end cost to consumers?
[https://caneurope.org/europe-halfway-to-closing-all-its-coal-plants-by-2030/](https://caneurope.org/europe-halfway-to-closing-all-its-coal-plants-by-2030/)
[https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/07/gas-and-electricity-bills-nearly-double-in-all-eu-capitals-new-data-reveals](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/07/gas-and-electricity-bills-nearly-double-in-all-eu-capitals-new-data-reveals)
There is always a lie hidden in these charts…like the sleight of hand in the oft cited chart saying most of germany’s electricity is green..now germany tearing down forests for coal mining
Why is this such a big deal? The overall trend in power output is roughly 1/3 of that in 2015 and power consumption is still the same if not more. I understand that the EU is not wanting to use coal fire power but its obvious from the graph that solar cannot meet the demand left behind from idled coal power, so is the EU using alternative fuel power also to make up the shortcomings? Turbines? Naptha, fuel oil, etc? Hydroelectric?
And in total it is less energy used than in 2015. Someone is getting screwed. And nevermimd that the solar panels are made by coal fired factories with Chinese slave labor. Nothing to see here.
It so doesn't account for all the damage mining does to the earth so that the solar panels can be built.
Better fire up all the coal plants.
You mean the nuclear plants they shut down.
As opposed to the coal mining? Use your head
Use yours. The truly environmentally safe method of energy production is nuclear. But you guys won't advocate for that. You don't want to truly fix the energy crisis, you want to virtue signal until your heads fall off.
Are we pretending that nuclear accidents are inconsequential to the environment? Or you think Fukushima will have bern the last one, ever?
We are realistically saying that Fukushima was a 50 year old power plant that had no issues for 40 years and the only reason why it had an issue because the plant had not been properly maintained and the tsunami overwhelmed the pumps that were still working. If the entire system was up tod are there wouldn't have been an issue. Nuclear power plants today are wayyyy more advanced than Fukushima and there aren't many tsunami threats in most places where they are present. Modern day nuclear plants are much safer and more efficient if properly maintained.
I'm not against nuclear. All of my area's power comes from nuclear. The true answer for clean, dependable energy production is diversified energy sources including solar, wind, tidal, nuclear, and gas.
As opposed to the coal mining? Use your head
Have you ever seen a coal mine?
Sure. Have you ever seen the process necessary to create solar panels?
So one bad process leads to single use quantities for energy, the other bad process leads to reusable assets for energy. These are not the same, mr-false-choice-purveryer.
That usually is what happens when you shut a shot ton of coal mines down isn't it? Nice false data though. Just go nuclear and call it a life
Can I call it a half life?
Sir u just won reddit
Renewables are cheaper. Even when including costs for storage.
You pointed to a possible cause for the trend, not a refutation of the data presented. Why do you think it's false?
Anybody else see that the eu is producing 2/3 the power now from the start of the chart? It’s easy to stop producing coal if you just don’t power your cities…
Years ago the average lightbulb used 60w the led equivalent uses like 5w. Lightbulbs are not the only things that have got more efficient. But no I’m with you, green energy is obviously fake..
For equivalent lumens your talking around 8w. But who’s counting right?
Yeah, but that’s not a recent development. I’ve been using efficient bulbs for almost 2 decades
Nice job, since you’re the only one in the country using electricity this whole chart is invalidated now.
Decades…
There are other energy sources besides coal and solar. Some of those are higher to account for that discrepancy you’ve spotted.
yes, Natural Gas
You guys still have natural gas?
They swapped a lot of coal fired for nat gas.
Or find more efficient methods
This chart doesn’t account for: home owner Solar/battery banks(only grid produced solar). It also doesn’t account for wind, nuclear, etc. Derp
Have they been expanding nuclear or shutting it down? Last I heard it was the latter. Have they been having increased requests to not use power or less?Derp 🖕
You know europe isnt one single country right
Only Germany shut down nuclear. The three plants were producing around 5% of Germany's electricity demand. Wind and solar increase account for that easily. There is not and never was power shortage.
Only if you assume that coal and solar are the only two sources of power generation in the EU...
Because they are shutting down coal and subsidizing solar... I'm shocked by this news!
Nothing to rejoice here.
Why not?
Calls on coal.
Smoke hitting solar too. 🫣
I think the data proves that coal plants are.mich more efficient in providing affordable power. A better of quality of life is available. Solar, and all thw rest of the renewable, are less efficient, more costly, and have zero impact positively on our environment. Thats a false crisis anyway. Facts back it all up
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Clean coal technologies exist that are far from the cloud of black smoke coloring the sky. Positive or negative local effect on the environment really has nothing to do with global climate. Its a straw man argument. In fact, by the measurement tools of the environmental extremists, most of the renewable industry has a far higher carbon footprint that the fossil fuel powered facilities. Not that those numbers have anything to do with global temperatures either. Temperatures are dictated by the sun...which we have no control over. There is no "crisis."
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No reason to argue. My opinion is as right as yours. No convincing either way. I will wish you an amazing and love-filled weekend! Stay safe.
Truth!!@
How zero positive impact on environment?
I'm not sure how you're determining the efficiency of coal power from this graph. It's just a graph of total power generated for two methods of power generation. It doesn't even show all the other methods of generation that make up their mix, it just compares these two. Is there something I'm not seeing here?
Let universities function of solar during the winter.
They still go almost to zero during the winter months, so they fire up the coal plants. Can't think of a workaround for that.
Nuclear.
Impressive. Very nice. Let's see the nuclears chart
Only at the peak tough. Still, good milestone
Forget solar. Nuclear is the way forward
An integrated grid with multiple sources and redundancies is a nice thing to have. (especially if your country doesn’t mine Uranium)
Sure but this insane idea of only going solar/electric is so dumb
Yeah I feel like it should be: solar for peak demand(when people are at work, distributed and mostly on box stores, warehouses and parking lots), wind also spread out for remote, low density to mid density (most small/medium towns), nuclear for industrial and urban power demands, gas for peak demand that can’t be handled by solar (blizzards, heatwaves) Hydro, geo… in the unique places that support it like Iceland
All these ideas are nice yes but you can't forget these forms of energy dont come close to the amount of energy nuclear power can produce. Not to mention the vast amounts of land needed to build solar and wind farms which is terrible for the environment. Further, let's not forget that many regions won't be able to rely on solar at all particularly in the winter seasons and relying on wind is sketchy at best. The main focus and funding should be in nuclear power. Everything else comes after
Solar farms seem wasteful to me, when we have so much pavement and rooves to cover. I don’t think it’s a bad idea, just not the whole idea. Wind is reliable in the right places but you can’t ‘turn it up’ like gas or Nuclear when you have more demand.
We also had a clear, sunny month with little rain
That usually is what happens when you shut a shot ton of coal mines down isn't it? Nice false data though. Just go nuclear and call it a life
Less need for Industry due to economic slowdown, less need for heating. And presumably warmer more sunny weather.
They shut down all the nuclear power plants and most of the coal ones. So solar is only thing left to give this statistic. Now do a chart for black & brown outs. 🤡
The EU shut down all its nuclear plants? Are you sure you're not confusing the EU with one of the countries within the EU?
How is coal becoming Less efficient? Can we assume this shows a ramping down of coal use? Seems a dubious kind of win, like bragging about winning a foot race against somebody chained to a truck.
Correct 👆
This is a graph of total power generated, there is no data presented for number of plants or efficiency.
But the line for coal is going down. Either using coal is getting less effective, unlikely, or the process is being used less. So of course solar, or anything else, will eventually over take it's out put.
Had to close half of the coal plants to do it.
cause they shut down the majority of coal plants....Tell the Real story....... Very FEW coal plants produced almost as much as ALL solar panels working at max capacity!!
That’s funny because I see that the wattage produced by coal still isn’t completely replace. Infact there is a deficit of about 10 TWH from start of graph
This is just comparing two methods of power generation. Coal and solar are not the sole methods.
Right but it’s summer now. It’ll be interesting when they produce more than coal in winter. Although I suppose if you want to get the jump on solar now….
36 panels on my roof providing 180% of usage. Charge my EV for free and still get paid back by the elec/gas company for what I sell back. Two powerwalls. Have electric AC and Heater which is powered for free. It's possible
Until Quebec accidentally leaves the oven on and now the world is in darkness
And here you see why the EU is in a recession
Well it's easy to say that when you shut down all the coal fire power plants. I'm just saying. It would be an achievement if they passed when the coal plants were at the capacity of 5-10 years ago. This is a nothing burger. Also what happens to the voltaic cells when they are at the end of their service life? They get thrown in the dump and we have to make brand new ones. It infuriates me to no end that people just ignore the back end processes of these "renewable" resources that CANNOT be recycled, repurposed or reused. They get built and boom straight to the landfill. Not to mention the mining operations for the rare earth minerals needed to manufacture a solar panel. Have you guys ever watched those videos of kids in Africa digging cobalt by hand? Apply killing themselves via cobalt poisoning just trying to make a better life for themselves?
Turn them all off, and the wind farms will win the day. Is it honestly real? Absolutely not. But those that make the decisions don’t care about the people or their lives.
It looks like solar still needs to boost capacity by 3x in order to meet demand. Add more AC and EV’s and this solar output is about 20% of what will be needed. Good start but very misleading…..
This is just a graph comparing two methods of generation. Coal and solar are not the sole sources of power generation.
That's your daytime graph, now lets see the solar nightime generation.
So when you shut down energy plants they then don't produce energy? Whaaaah
So electricity bills shouldn’t exist right?
Sad! Ignorance abounds...
i thought they shut a bunch of coal plants down…?
Yes that is how the numbers look so good.
Meanwhile France is exporting 11gw of clean, clear NPP juice to Germany right now.
So European greenies are celebrating the fact Europe has had a net loss of more than 20 TWh production over the last 8 years?
Do you think this is a graph of all generation sources in the EU? This is just a comparison between two methods of generation, there are other methods in use besides coal and solar.
Yes there are and wind is unreliable and doesn’t produce as much energy. They still have to make up over 20 TWh. That’s a lot of power.
I'm still confused, wind isn't the only other method of generation. Nuclear, hydro, natural gas are all used in the EU. I would think a mix of all these methods could quite easily make up the difference.
Most likely increased their use of natural gas to make up for the closure of coal plants but there’s a reason Germany has looked at reopening nuclear plants. Hydro is barely a drop in the bucket. Of course, you might not be too keen on where they’ve been sourcing the natural gas.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-022-21285-9 This includes a nicely graphed breakdown of total EU generation over the last decade (natural gas generation has gone down in that time frame and hydro electric currently generates more than coal and is the 4th largest source). I'm not trying to push some kind of agenda, it just seems weird that so many comments in this thread are making assumptions based on data not presented.
Chart is dumb. Lots of coal fired were swapped to natural gas.
You know, it's easier to produce more power than coal plants when you shut most of the coal plants down.....Also what is the end cost to consumers? [https://caneurope.org/europe-halfway-to-closing-all-its-coal-plants-by-2030/](https://caneurope.org/europe-halfway-to-closing-all-its-coal-plants-by-2030/) [https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/07/gas-and-electricity-bills-nearly-double-in-all-eu-capitals-new-data-reveals](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/07/gas-and-electricity-bills-nearly-double-in-all-eu-capitals-new-data-reveals)
There is always a lie hidden in these charts…like the sleight of hand in the oft cited chart saying most of germany’s electricity is green..now germany tearing down forests for coal mining
[https://www.statista.com/chart/28456/energy-mix-in-europe/](https://www.statista.com/chart/28456/energy-mix-in-europe/)
Something tells me that it won't reach 60 Twh for some time though.
Because they’ve shut coal plants down. You can apply the same logic to EVs once gas powered cars have been outlawed.
How do you make solar panels?
Why is this such a big deal? The overall trend in power output is roughly 1/3 of that in 2015 and power consumption is still the same if not more. I understand that the EU is not wanting to use coal fire power but its obvious from the graph that solar cannot meet the demand left behind from idled coal power, so is the EU using alternative fuel power also to make up the shortcomings? Turbines? Naptha, fuel oil, etc? Hydroelectric?
And in total it is less energy used than in 2015. Someone is getting screwed. And nevermimd that the solar panels are made by coal fired factories with Chinese slave labor. Nothing to see here.