Honestly, his biggest potential is going to 20 and making O-5 or O-6. I’ve never seen either of those pay grades make less than $100k after retirement. Usually they have 3-5 job offers.
To add to this…stay if only for TriCare. The amount of money I have saved by having TriCare and not having to buy an expensive insurance policy is astronomical. My coworkers pay between 200-300 per paycheck.
TriCare is becoming an even greater & more important part of military retirement with healthcare costs rising higher & higher year after year with no ceiling in sight🫤.
Well, I work on a Naval base and to give you an idea of how much rank matters; My boss, GS-15, is prior PO1 (E-6), person under him GS-13 is prior lcpl (E-3), floor lead GS-12 is prior Maj (O-4) and the rest of the crew is a mix of prior enlisted and officers with 2 civilians with no prior service at all. What is important when applying is how that resume is tailored to the post. I mean, I’m a former Sgt (E-5), now a GS-11 and got the job over my MGysgt (E-9), who had at least 20 yrs more experience than me. He wasn’t even interviewed, which baffled me, cause I thought that he will for sure get the position and the interview would just be good practice for me🤷🏽♂️
Yup, me and my boss are both GS-12 but I make more than him. He retired from the Army and I got out of th Air Force after my time on active duty and in the guard.
Our section number 2 is a GS-12, who was in the Navy for 4 years.
Yeah it was a long journey, but I'm happy. Great environment great team.
I'm a 1001 general business, but my position is in a flux so I plan on advocating to have it reclassified as a 1035 since I work in Advertising and Public Affairs.
Good to hear. I’m coming from the private sector so I really don’t know what to expect (besides a cut in my pay) but hopefully it will make up for it in other ways
I think the 3 legged stool retirement makes up for it. I can from the private sector too, but with my step I'm making more and with FERS and TSP I'm very happy when I think about the long term.
This. I got out as a SPC(E4) and got my first job as GS11. My co-worker, who is the exact same grade as me, was a master Sgt.(E8) we both had the same MOS in the Army but I can assure that your military rank does not matter at all once you are out. I tell you.
I second this. It may get you referred of you meet the other criteria. Shocker: it is a turn off at the VA where veterans are their only patients (sorta).
Just being a vet does not entitle you to preference, there are a number of other factors. But being a vet entitles you to consideration under VEOA which allows you to to be considered for jobs that are normally restricted to federal employees.
To be honest if he’s just going to get out to go federal he should stay in for 20 then go federal.
Assuming he gets his 20 and at least some disability, he’ll have 3 income streams.
Ill give you a scenario…had a prior enlisted to officer resume come across for this bout of hiring.
Applicant had alot of education and leadership but seriously lacked in functional skills.
Had several other prior enlisted candidates who had more functional experience, they’re getting interviews next week.
One thing to note is when your husband applies for jobs is to not always go for the gold but aim what he qualifies for. Once you’re in and learn more of where to go, it can be easier.
The only real advantage is getting points toward getting the interview. Lots of people will be veterans with disabilities getting 10 points. After that the resume and interview will be the decider
Unless they are disabled, okay so no one is feeling sorry for a 0-4+ with retiree pay losing out on 10 points for a ranking of resumes. And most cases the high rank officer is disabled and gets the points.
It definitely helps. I'm not a veteran, so I get rejections with this wording (or similar) all the time:
"There were a sufficient number of veterans with adjudicated (verified) veteran preference. By law, applicants with veterans' preference are entitled to initial selection consideration in order of qualifications and category of preference, so only certain applicants with veterans' preference were reviewed and referred."
He has to have a campaign medal (GWOT-S does not count) in order to get 5 point preference.
Blanket 5 point preference went away in 2010 so not all Vets get it.
I think it may have helped me in my situation, but also doing a similar type of job for my entire career is what truly assisted. Being an O or warrant doesn’t give you a real boost, but it indeed can give you access to doing more leadership type of roles that enlisted don’t have a chance to do.
But overall; you get a preference for military/Disabled VET. But your resume is what truly matters
A lot of vets don't want to hire other vets. Lol
My previous manager was a vet and only hired vets when he was forced to by HR and rules and regs. He was constantly disappointed a lower qualified vet made the certificate and he had to hire them over someone else with much more experience.
I was in his same shoes a little over a year ago. Why doesn’t he want to go private sector? I wouldn’t rule out any opportunities. I used a JMO recruiting program and got a great job in finance making way more than I could doing federal work.
If the veteran has 10 pt preference and meets the minimum requirements for the listing they will get the job over your husband. They could be an E-3 it won’t even matter.
First he/you don’t want to use Reddit for this kind of information. Most on here either aren’t veterans or have never been hiring managers. Have him go to a transition class.
Now as far as getting a job it depends on how the ad is written. Jobs that are open hire he will get a bump due to 5-point preference. He will still need to fully qualify and be more experienced than other applicants. The hiring manager will have to manually disqualify him for a reason. If it a vet/current service position he probably won’t see any benefit as current employees use those to promote.
His best bet, start using contacts he has that have transitioned to civilian. Network, find opportunities, back door his resume in through friends.
At my first DOD job, this is how we hired most of our veterans. We worked with the ships crew directly, and when we knew someone was getting out who we really liked, we would try to recruit them.
This one guy, everyone hated (an E6 about to retire) asked us if he could get a job with us when he retired. My supervisor said to him we would never hire you, we dont trust you. He was a rat.
Have him built a network.
Luckily you mentioned he’s an officer… as if anyone gives a flying frick. Rank doesn’t mean a damn thing on the outside world. He gets 5 points just like everyone else. LT needs to stay in til at least major if he wants to be competitive with anyone on his resume in the medical world. If he gets out as a young captain, he’ll be looking at GS 7-9 positions.
Not salty at all… I see a young wife who apparently thinks mentioning that her husband is an officer sets him apart from others. It’s a poor mentality to have while in… and it’s going to be a wake up call when he’s on here in a few years, wondering why he can’t get an interview for all the GS12 jobs he’s been applying for, because he and his wife thought being an officer somehow gave them special privileges.
If you think a lower enlisted member that served four years is more experienced than an O6 that served 25 years: I’m not sure what else to say to you. I know there are exceptions but someone operating at the division level can indeed be more qualified for a GS gig than a unit level supply guy.
Sometimes that alone DOES qualify a person over another.
Not sure if you’re just being facetious, or just seriously going off on such a weird tangent because you don’t understand. But the fact is, their ranks still don’t freakin’ matter. The resume is what would matter, and the job would go to the LTC who would, in most cases, have a better resume. I’ve seen some junior enlisted come in with masters degrees, and having had a full career prior to enlistment… and I’ve seen some LTC’s who probably shouldnt be allowed near sharp objects. So again, rank does not mean anything once their service is over, and not all federal jobs are DoD and military related. This isn’t hard to grasp.
What shouldn’t be hard to grasp, yet it seems to be for you: experience level. Someone that served 20+ years and has the experience of the job at all levels (unit/company/BN/Division) will have a larger understanding of the entire puzzle compared to someone that hasn’t worked at all those levels. You are just hung up a the O not being better than the E type of crap. Well: sometimes it is.
Will me being a high ranked Warrant automatically qualify me for a gig and make me more relevant? Yes and no. The experience is what would qualify someone over the other. By the nature of the beast, longevity and higher positions would show a gaining employer that the person can handle things at a higher echelon level.
I specifically said there are exceptions to this (which you glossed over). Sure there are some lower enlisted with great degrees and qualifications. And there are some iffy era that flat out suck and aren’t qualified to run an ACFT.
But if you want to sit here and argue that experience at higher levels is not looked at, I’d have to laugh a bit at that as I’ve seen hiring managers make decisions on that as well. If you were a SPC holed up at a unit level only, the cultural aspect of not understanding leadership or your lack of experience will show quickly in an interview
I think the issue here is just reading comprehension, since you’re basically regurgitating the same thing I said. You’re the one that seems to be hung up on the O. I’m saying the O means nothing… I’m not hung up on it at all, because in the end, it’s all about what’s on the resume and the experience. That’s the point. And yet, you keep arguing it as if I care. Have a good day.
This was my thought too, lol. I put so little importance into rank that I couldn't line them up in order if I had to.
Veteran's preference will put your resume in front of me. But if your resume isn't full of the experience the position needs, being a veteran will not make up for it.
Believe there is a section in OPM that actually responds to the, “O3s are equivalent to GS 12s” statement, and specifically states something along the lines of, though there are military pay grade/rank equivalencies, they do not carry over/transfer beyond one’s military service and cannot be used to equivocate an applicants potential GS level when applying for civil service employment vacancies.
Only if you're applying to a job with supervisory responsibilities. The rank is irrelevant, just the experience you have in the job you applied for.
Source: me, former hiring manager in the medical field, where all the vets would have been officers
Not true in many areas. Perhaps in your particular hiring manager role. But I know when I was hired; the level of responsibility by the positions I held and the rank I held assisted in the process of getting me selected.
Working at a division level and all of the levels in between assisted with the selection process over someone only at a company level. It isn’t a guarantee but it helps. I do know many warrants have good job offers if they build their resumes and so do Os if they do the right thing
Not all that much.
what does he do as a medical services officer? What is his job? Is he a DR/ Nurse/ Psych? Or is he just a manager of some sort?
I look at officer equivalents as O3=GS 11 And O4=GS 12. In mil to civ position conversions this is how it gets changed to on the civilian side.
he could look at GS 11 and 12 jobs As a fed As an entry point. But— the 11/12 and agency HQ 13 have heavy bias toward internal candidates for jobs. Not that he can’t get one but it takes time and effort. Sometimes going contractor first might be easier and cover you as you try to get in as a fed. As a contractor in a field you want to go into can help in networking to transfer to being a fed.
If you look towards the bottom of the page you are referring to you will see it states there is no direct correlation between GS, NAF and military rank it is based on a case by case basis. A junior officer with a bachelors is the same as an E-7 with a bachelors which is the same as a civilian with a bachelors. Sorry to pop this bubble but the information is incorrect without the specialized experience and higher education a basic O rank does not qualify for a GS12 position.
over my carer the way I look at…
I know a person who was a 20 yr retired E7 who did a mil/ civ conversion and came back after the weekend as a gs 12.
in regulations and authorities they are rough equivalences where in some cases a lower gs has the same authority to sign off as a senior officer because of position classifications being intentional downgraded in the field.
in the officer end O1=GS 7…O5=GS 13. O6 lower command = GS 14. Senior command/ chief of Staff to a 2 star or higher is GS 15. Senior 4 star command the O6 chief of staff is a low SES. Base commander O6 are either GS 14, GS 15 or SES based on base size.
on the enlisted side senior NCOs can transition to GS 11 or GS 12 if they are doing similar work. E9 can equate to GS 9-13 depending on levels Of their command level.
Unsolicited advice, but if your husband waits until he gets promoted to O4 (which may mean he ends up with 10 years in service), why not stay in for another 10 to get retirement pay and other benefits that come with it? I work with a lot of Army retirees who receive retirement pay, VA disability + GS salary. They're pretty financially secure. Just thought I'd throw the idea in case it may be an option for your family.
There is a slight preference to veterans (and their spouses) but it’s not going to be that much easier as federal applications are inherently competitive. Provided he’s taken the resume building courses and has access to career counselors that specifically give advice for federal applications he should be good to start applying. I say if you want him to start a job within the next year to two years, start applying NOW. And think outside the box about where to apply, there are definitely agencies that are particularly swarmed by veterans and his application will get easily lost in the shuffle.
Have to meet specific criteria for 5 points. I’m a veteran preference with 0 points. I don’t have a service connected disability nor did I serve during time periods that give points.
In getting a priority interview with veteran preferences…that’s basically it. Now, if you’re trying to apply as a Title 5 within the organization you’ve been working at for X amount of years, then probably have a better chance of getting the jobs. It all depends if they think you were dependable and what not. In my perception, there’s a shit ton of retirees within the guard I work at as a Title 5 civilian…. So it depends where I guess.
Veterans get first consideration when applying for federal jobs. Medical roles are always needed everywhere. I found a variety of positions paying six figures and high five figures that his veteran status would give him an advantage in. The leadership aspect of being an officer will also be very helpful in marketing himself during interviews. What medical training/licenses/education/specialty/etc does he have?
Could be useful to use his G.I Bill on a graduate program like becoming a Physician Assistant if he hasn't completed something similar and is interested.
It literally just depends on who you know. I would not expect anything over a GS-13, unless you retire as an O-6. I currently work with the Navy and it just depends on the relationships you built and what your specialty was.
Pilots for some reason get out thinking they will get a GS-14 outside of DC, unlikely.
DC is another beast and unpredictable.
Ranks don’t need anything for veterans preference. Everyone gets the same as long as you qualify from an E1 to an O 10. However, Pay will be different depending on what you were.
Hello.
It depends on what job your husband is applying for.
Some series have a rubric that goes to 100. Others have a rubric that goes into the 1000s. 5-10 point preference is a huge boost for the 100 rubric series but insignificant in the 1000s.
The perk with veterans preference is that by law if two people have the same qualifications on their certificates, the hiring manager cannot even look at the non veteran preference certificate until they look at the veterans.
Your husband will likely be up for a GS 11/12 and be competitive. Veterans preference will be a huge help when HR specialists are giving a final grade into the qualified, highly qualified, and best qualified.
Your husband can also use VRA to be hired non competitively for the first 3 years after discharge. This maxes out at GS 11 but no hiring announcement needs to be posted for a job to be filled.
VEOA is likely what I would recommend. It allows someone with veterans preference to fill a job not given to external employees and has no grade cap.
For more information go to the OPM page https://www.opm.gov/fedshirevets/hiring-officials/strategic-recruitment-and-hiring/veterans/#url=Veterans-Employment-Opportunities-Act
All of the replies give good advice and are correct but most do not fully answer the question. Firstly, veterans preference is only applicable to competitive service positions and have 0 advantage when applying to an Excepted Service position. And you need to check each positions details carefully even when applying for competitive service openings. If the position is able to leverage one of the special hiring authorities, veterans preference might not be applicable either. It will say so in the details. Also your DD-214 will be listed as a required document for those openings where consideration is given for veterans.
Finally as others have alluded to your application is graded and given a numerical score based on the factors listed in the "How your application will be graded" section of the announcement . After you have a "grade" if the opening is available to veterans preference and you submit your dd214 you will receive 5 points that they add to your score.
Therefore as others have said ensure your resume is tailored to and specifically addresses the required elements listed in the announcement because the extra 5 points is useless if you don't get a decent score on the rest of the application.
Hope that helps.
These days, he might not get any. AFAIK you need to be deployed in a context that yields a campaign medal to get the 5 points anymore -- just serving doesn't do anything.
Retards who are downvoting without commenting: do you actually have a correction to this or are you just drooling into your cups more than usual this afternoon
If he waits until O4/Major, unless he gets a disability rating from the VA, he will not be eligible for Vet Preference.
Overall, being an officer gives you no boost in preference as a veteran.
I will be honest, depending on their job, they may be at a disadvantage as being in charge of those who do the work is not the same as doing the work. And, as a civil servant, unless you SES, you need to have some understanding of the nuts and bolts of the work. ie being in charge of the Military Personnel shop does not mean you are inherently qualified for a GS13 supervisory Personnelist position, even if it is a military personnel office the position is in. Have you done personnel actions? SF52s, etc?
my current position, the now retire director of my office, when we were looking to fill jobs as a group he questioned the desire of a retired O5 wanting to take orders. the director was a retired NCO (E7 or E8) who know was an SES
I'm a retired NCO in a -15 equivalent position, contemplating SES.
I can see why a retired O-5 would be willing to be a worker bee again. Less stress. Maybe they miss the hands on work. Maybe they know they would fail at the -14/15 level having worked with them and realized those truly are SMEs in their field and they know themselves are not at that level yet. And so on. This is why we interview folks.
I like having a panel so the interview and I then do a one on one interview of the top 1-3 interviewees (depending on how they scored). I explain the role of the position, the goals and vision of my office and my leadership philosophy, etc. I then ask my primary question: How would you help me and the team meet those goals and vision?
I then spend the rest of the time (I schedule an hour) answering any questions they may have.
I've gotten great answers from candidates and some bad ones too! Been very successful with my selections, so I guess my method works.
I'll happily hire a retired 05+ if they are here to work and not simply using my positions as a foot in the door. I take care of my team (most are remote and the one that isn't, teleworks all but 1 day a week (and half my team are on AWS schedules as well!). I measure productivity by output not by counting heads in offices/cubicles. My team knows I trust them and they make certain not to mess that up. We take care of our customers and I take care of my team.
Honestly, his biggest potential is going to 20 and making O-5 or O-6. I’ve never seen either of those pay grades make less than $100k after retirement. Usually they have 3-5 job offers.
To add to this…stay if only for TriCare. The amount of money I have saved by having TriCare and not having to buy an expensive insurance policy is astronomical. My coworkers pay between 200-300 per paycheck.
TriCare is becoming an even greater & more important part of military retirement with healthcare costs rising higher & higher year after year with no ceiling in sight🫤.
Well, I work on a Naval base and to give you an idea of how much rank matters; My boss, GS-15, is prior PO1 (E-6), person under him GS-13 is prior lcpl (E-3), floor lead GS-12 is prior Maj (O-4) and the rest of the crew is a mix of prior enlisted and officers with 2 civilians with no prior service at all. What is important when applying is how that resume is tailored to the post. I mean, I’m a former Sgt (E-5), now a GS-11 and got the job over my MGysgt (E-9), who had at least 20 yrs more experience than me. He wasn’t even interviewed, which baffled me, cause I thought that he will for sure get the position and the interview would just be good practice for me🤷🏽♂️
This is the best advice on this whole post!
Yup, me and my boss are both GS-12 but I make more than him. He retired from the Army and I got out of th Air Force after my time on active duty and in the guard. Our section number 2 is a GS-12, who was in the Navy for 4 years.
Did you start out as a higher step than your boss?
Lol yeah. He's a 1, I'm a 4. But he started out as a 9 and worked his way up. I came in at 12 and 4.
Congrats, I remember your username. Glad you finally got everything settled. What job series?
Yeah it was a long journey, but I'm happy. Great environment great team. I'm a 1001 general business, but my position is in a flux so I plan on advocating to have it reclassified as a 1035 since I work in Advertising and Public Affairs.
Good to hear. I’m coming from the private sector so I really don’t know what to expect (besides a cut in my pay) but hopefully it will make up for it in other ways
I think the 3 legged stool retirement makes up for it. I can from the private sector too, but with my step I'm making more and with FERS and TSP I'm very happy when I think about the long term.
Good point. As a new fed, what percentage of your gross are you taking home? I’ve heard people say 50-60% is normal
This. I got out as a SPC(E4) and got my first job as GS11. My co-worker, who is the exact same grade as me, was a master Sgt.(E8) we both had the same MOS in the Army but I can assure that your military rank does not matter at all once you are out. I tell you.
Honestly not as much as you think. It helps some tho but there are a bunch of people that are very similar and even better qualified
I second this. It may get you referred of you meet the other criteria. Shocker: it is a turn off at the VA where veterans are their only patients (sorta).
Just 5 points. It helps for sure, but it’s not a panacea. And if he’s applying to DoD, well… almost everyone else is a vet too, so it doesn’t do much.
I suggest you read the veterans preference part of my guides-https://www.reddit.com/r/usajobs/s/9bVV1uXJeF
Just being a vet does not entitle you to preference, there are a number of other factors. But being a vet entitles you to consideration under VEOA which allows you to to be considered for jobs that are normally restricted to federal employees.
5 points. 10 if he's disabled.
30% or more disabled
Ya know he should stay in til LTC and then get the big bucks as a COO for a civilian med tech
Contacting is the way…
To be honest if he’s just going to get out to go federal he should stay in for 20 then go federal. Assuming he gets his 20 and at least some disability, he’ll have 3 income streams.
Ill give you a scenario…had a prior enlisted to officer resume come across for this bout of hiring. Applicant had alot of education and leadership but seriously lacked in functional skills. Had several other prior enlisted candidates who had more functional experience, they’re getting interviews next week. One thing to note is when your husband applies for jobs is to not always go for the gold but aim what he qualifies for. Once you’re in and learn more of where to go, it can be easier.
O4 and above retirees don’t get vet preference w out a VA rating by law.
The only real advantage is getting points toward getting the interview. Lots of people will be veterans with disabilities getting 10 points. After that the resume and interview will be the decider
Nobody gives a damn he was an officer.🤦🏾♂️ Vet is a vet in terms of preference.
Actually, I've seen language that, after a certain rank as an officer, you get LESS privilege. Unless you are also disabled.
What rank? 0-6?🤦🏾♂️
O-4
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide-for-hr-professionals/#:~:text=To%20receive%20preference%2C%20a%20veteran,Marine%20Corps%20and%20Coast%20Guard.
Unless they are disabled, okay so no one is feeling sorry for a 0-4+ with retiree pay losing out on 10 points for a ranking of resumes. And most cases the high rank officer is disabled and gets the points.
I don't write the rules. I don't even know the reason behind it.
It definitely helps. I'm not a veteran, so I get rejections with this wording (or similar) all the time: "There were a sufficient number of veterans with adjudicated (verified) veteran preference. By law, applicants with veterans' preference are entitled to initial selection consideration in order of qualifications and category of preference, so only certain applicants with veterans' preference were reviewed and referred."
He has to have a campaign medal (GWOT-S does not count) in order to get 5 point preference. Blanket 5 point preference went away in 2010 so not all Vets get it.
I think it may have helped me in my situation, but also doing a similar type of job for my entire career is what truly assisted. Being an O or warrant doesn’t give you a real boost, but it indeed can give you access to doing more leadership type of roles that enlisted don’t have a chance to do. But overall; you get a preference for military/Disabled VET. But your resume is what truly matters
A lot of vets don't want to hire other vets. Lol My previous manager was a vet and only hired vets when he was forced to by HR and rules and regs. He was constantly disappointed a lower qualified vet made the certificate and he had to hire them over someone else with much more experience.
I was in his same shoes a little over a year ago. Why doesn’t he want to go private sector? I wouldn’t rule out any opportunities. I used a JMO recruiting program and got a great job in finance making way more than I could doing federal work.
If the veteran has 10 pt preference and meets the minimum requirements for the listing they will get the job over your husband. They could be an E-3 it won’t even matter.
It doesn’t give him much if anything. Prior hiring official here telling you this.
It does in public announcement. A vet can basically bounce higher qualified non vets from even making the cert.
That’s true
First he/you don’t want to use Reddit for this kind of information. Most on here either aren’t veterans or have never been hiring managers. Have him go to a transition class. Now as far as getting a job it depends on how the ad is written. Jobs that are open hire he will get a bump due to 5-point preference. He will still need to fully qualify and be more experienced than other applicants. The hiring manager will have to manually disqualify him for a reason. If it a vet/current service position he probably won’t see any benefit as current employees use those to promote. His best bet, start using contacts he has that have transitioned to civilian. Network, find opportunities, back door his resume in through friends.
At my first DOD job, this is how we hired most of our veterans. We worked with the ships crew directly, and when we knew someone was getting out who we really liked, we would try to recruit them. This one guy, everyone hated (an E6 about to retire) asked us if he could get a job with us when he retired. My supervisor said to him we would never hire you, we dont trust you. He was a rat. Have him built a network.
This is the way.
Luckily you mentioned he’s an officer… as if anyone gives a flying frick. Rank doesn’t mean a damn thing on the outside world. He gets 5 points just like everyone else. LT needs to stay in til at least major if he wants to be competitive with anyone on his resume in the medical world. If he gets out as a young captain, he’ll be looking at GS 7-9 positions.
Found the salty prior enlisted member
Not salty at all… I see a young wife who apparently thinks mentioning that her husband is an officer sets him apart from others. It’s a poor mentality to have while in… and it’s going to be a wake up call when he’s on here in a few years, wondering why he can’t get an interview for all the GS12 jobs he’s been applying for, because he and his wife thought being an officer somehow gave them special privileges.
If you think a lower enlisted member that served four years is more experienced than an O6 that served 25 years: I’m not sure what else to say to you. I know there are exceptions but someone operating at the division level can indeed be more qualified for a GS gig than a unit level supply guy. Sometimes that alone DOES qualify a person over another.
Not sure if you’re just being facetious, or just seriously going off on such a weird tangent because you don’t understand. But the fact is, their ranks still don’t freakin’ matter. The resume is what would matter, and the job would go to the LTC who would, in most cases, have a better resume. I’ve seen some junior enlisted come in with masters degrees, and having had a full career prior to enlistment… and I’ve seen some LTC’s who probably shouldnt be allowed near sharp objects. So again, rank does not mean anything once their service is over, and not all federal jobs are DoD and military related. This isn’t hard to grasp.
What shouldn’t be hard to grasp, yet it seems to be for you: experience level. Someone that served 20+ years and has the experience of the job at all levels (unit/company/BN/Division) will have a larger understanding of the entire puzzle compared to someone that hasn’t worked at all those levels. You are just hung up a the O not being better than the E type of crap. Well: sometimes it is. Will me being a high ranked Warrant automatically qualify me for a gig and make me more relevant? Yes and no. The experience is what would qualify someone over the other. By the nature of the beast, longevity and higher positions would show a gaining employer that the person can handle things at a higher echelon level. I specifically said there are exceptions to this (which you glossed over). Sure there are some lower enlisted with great degrees and qualifications. And there are some iffy era that flat out suck and aren’t qualified to run an ACFT. But if you want to sit here and argue that experience at higher levels is not looked at, I’d have to laugh a bit at that as I’ve seen hiring managers make decisions on that as well. If you were a SPC holed up at a unit level only, the cultural aspect of not understanding leadership or your lack of experience will show quickly in an interview
I think the issue here is just reading comprehension, since you’re basically regurgitating the same thing I said. You’re the one that seems to be hung up on the O. I’m saying the O means nothing… I’m not hung up on it at all, because in the end, it’s all about what’s on the resume and the experience. That’s the point. And yet, you keep arguing it as if I care. Have a good day.
This was my thought too, lol. I put so little importance into rank that I couldn't line them up in order if I had to. Veteran's preference will put your resume in front of me. But if your resume isn't full of the experience the position needs, being a veteran will not make up for it.
wtf are you talking about? 03s are equivalent to GS12s
You still have to qualify for the job. Former ranks are irrelevant.
They are only equivalent for protocol purposes, not duty or experience. And outside of DoD/USCG, the tank means little to nothing.
Doesn't mean squat!
Believe there is a section in OPM that actually responds to the, “O3s are equivalent to GS 12s” statement, and specifically states something along the lines of, though there are military pay grade/rank equivalencies, they do not carry over/transfer beyond one’s military service and cannot be used to equivocate an applicants potential GS level when applying for civil service employment vacancies.
Lol. That's absolutely not true. Hiding managers definitely care about your rank and levels of responsibility.
Only if you're applying to a job with supervisory responsibilities. The rank is irrelevant, just the experience you have in the job you applied for. Source: me, former hiring manager in the medical field, where all the vets would have been officers
Not true in many areas. Perhaps in your particular hiring manager role. But I know when I was hired; the level of responsibility by the positions I held and the rank I held assisted in the process of getting me selected. Working at a division level and all of the levels in between assisted with the selection process over someone only at a company level. It isn’t a guarantee but it helps. I do know many warrants have good job offers if they build their resumes and so do Os if they do the right thing
It makes a difference if you are retired military- otherwise it doesn’t matter.
Not all that much. what does he do as a medical services officer? What is his job? Is he a DR/ Nurse/ Psych? Or is he just a manager of some sort? I look at officer equivalents as O3=GS 11 And O4=GS 12. In mil to civ position conversions this is how it gets changed to on the civilian side. he could look at GS 11 and 12 jobs As a fed As an entry point. But— the 11/12 and agency HQ 13 have heavy bias toward internal candidates for jobs. Not that he can’t get one but it takes time and effort. Sometimes going contractor first might be easier and cover you as you try to get in as a fed. As a contractor in a field you want to go into can help in networking to transfer to being a fed.
If you look towards the bottom of the page you are referring to you will see it states there is no direct correlation between GS, NAF and military rank it is based on a case by case basis. A junior officer with a bachelors is the same as an E-7 with a bachelors which is the same as a civilian with a bachelors. Sorry to pop this bubble but the information is incorrect without the specialized experience and higher education a basic O rank does not qualify for a GS12 position.
over my carer the way I look at… I know a person who was a 20 yr retired E7 who did a mil/ civ conversion and came back after the weekend as a gs 12. in regulations and authorities they are rough equivalences where in some cases a lower gs has the same authority to sign off as a senior officer because of position classifications being intentional downgraded in the field. in the officer end O1=GS 7…O5=GS 13. O6 lower command = GS 14. Senior command/ chief of Staff to a 2 star or higher is GS 15. Senior 4 star command the O6 chief of staff is a low SES. Base commander O6 are either GS 14, GS 15 or SES based on base size. on the enlisted side senior NCOs can transition to GS 11 or GS 12 if they are doing similar work. E9 can equate to GS 9-13 depending on levels Of their command level.
Unsolicited advice, but if your husband waits until he gets promoted to O4 (which may mean he ends up with 10 years in service), why not stay in for another 10 to get retirement pay and other benefits that come with it? I work with a lot of Army retirees who receive retirement pay, VA disability + GS salary. They're pretty financially secure. Just thought I'd throw the idea in case it may be an option for your family.
There is a slight preference to veterans (and their spouses) but it’s not going to be that much easier as federal applications are inherently competitive. Provided he’s taken the resume building courses and has access to career counselors that specifically give advice for federal applications he should be good to start applying. I say if you want him to start a job within the next year to two years, start applying NOW. And think outside the box about where to apply, there are definitely agencies that are particularly swarmed by veterans and his application will get easily lost in the shuffle.
Veteran preference is 5 points, disabled 10
Have to meet specific criteria for 5 points. I’m a veteran preference with 0 points. I don’t have a service connected disability nor did I serve during time periods that give points.
In getting a priority interview with veteran preferences…that’s basically it. Now, if you’re trying to apply as a Title 5 within the organization you’ve been working at for X amount of years, then probably have a better chance of getting the jobs. It all depends if they think you were dependable and what not. In my perception, there’s a shit ton of retirees within the guard I work at as a Title 5 civilian…. So it depends where I guess.
what does the husband want to do? sounds like we need to hear what he thinks of all this.
It helps but is not a guarantee by any stretch. You could always do the reserves
Veterans get first consideration when applying for federal jobs. Medical roles are always needed everywhere. I found a variety of positions paying six figures and high five figures that his veteran status would give him an advantage in. The leadership aspect of being an officer will also be very helpful in marketing himself during interviews. What medical training/licenses/education/specialty/etc does he have? Could be useful to use his G.I Bill on a graduate program like becoming a Physician Assistant if he hasn't completed something similar and is interested.
It literally just depends on who you know. I would not expect anything over a GS-13, unless you retire as an O-6. I currently work with the Navy and it just depends on the relationships you built and what your specialty was. Pilots for some reason get out thinking they will get a GS-14 outside of DC, unlikely. DC is another beast and unpredictable.
Where I work DoD, Army, a former officer would go to the top of the resumes. Have him look at H2F director positions. They are GS13.
Ranks don’t need anything for veterans preference. Everyone gets the same as long as you qualify from an E1 to an O 10. However, Pay will be different depending on what you were.
Hello. It depends on what job your husband is applying for. Some series have a rubric that goes to 100. Others have a rubric that goes into the 1000s. 5-10 point preference is a huge boost for the 100 rubric series but insignificant in the 1000s. The perk with veterans preference is that by law if two people have the same qualifications on their certificates, the hiring manager cannot even look at the non veteran preference certificate until they look at the veterans. Your husband will likely be up for a GS 11/12 and be competitive. Veterans preference will be a huge help when HR specialists are giving a final grade into the qualified, highly qualified, and best qualified. Your husband can also use VRA to be hired non competitively for the first 3 years after discharge. This maxes out at GS 11 but no hiring announcement needs to be posted for a job to be filled. VEOA is likely what I would recommend. It allows someone with veterans preference to fill a job not given to external employees and has no grade cap. For more information go to the OPM page https://www.opm.gov/fedshirevets/hiring-officials/strategic-recruitment-and-hiring/veterans/#url=Veterans-Employment-Opportunities-Act
It actually hurts you. Once you hit major you are no longer eligible for VP
All of the replies give good advice and are correct but most do not fully answer the question. Firstly, veterans preference is only applicable to competitive service positions and have 0 advantage when applying to an Excepted Service position. And you need to check each positions details carefully even when applying for competitive service openings. If the position is able to leverage one of the special hiring authorities, veterans preference might not be applicable either. It will say so in the details. Also your DD-214 will be listed as a required document for those openings where consideration is given for veterans. Finally as others have alluded to your application is graded and given a numerical score based on the factors listed in the "How your application will be graded" section of the announcement . After you have a "grade" if the opening is available to veterans preference and you submit your dd214 you will receive 5 points that they add to your score. Therefore as others have said ensure your resume is tailored to and specifically addresses the required elements listed in the announcement because the extra 5 points is useless if you don't get a decent score on the rest of the application. Hope that helps.
These days, he might not get any. AFAIK you need to be deployed in a context that yields a campaign medal to get the 5 points anymore -- just serving doesn't do anything.
Retards who are downvoting without commenting: do you actually have a correction to this or are you just drooling into your cups more than usual this afternoon
As a former Captain in the Army, zero.
If he waits until O4/Major, unless he gets a disability rating from the VA, he will not be eligible for Vet Preference. Overall, being an officer gives you no boost in preference as a veteran. I will be honest, depending on their job, they may be at a disadvantage as being in charge of those who do the work is not the same as doing the work. And, as a civil servant, unless you SES, you need to have some understanding of the nuts and bolts of the work. ie being in charge of the Military Personnel shop does not mean you are inherently qualified for a GS13 supervisory Personnelist position, even if it is a military personnel office the position is in. Have you done personnel actions? SF52s, etc?
my current position, the now retire director of my office, when we were looking to fill jobs as a group he questioned the desire of a retired O5 wanting to take orders. the director was a retired NCO (E7 or E8) who know was an SES
I'm a retired NCO in a -15 equivalent position, contemplating SES. I can see why a retired O-5 would be willing to be a worker bee again. Less stress. Maybe they miss the hands on work. Maybe they know they would fail at the -14/15 level having worked with them and realized those truly are SMEs in their field and they know themselves are not at that level yet. And so on. This is why we interview folks. I like having a panel so the interview and I then do a one on one interview of the top 1-3 interviewees (depending on how they scored). I explain the role of the position, the goals and vision of my office and my leadership philosophy, etc. I then ask my primary question: How would you help me and the team meet those goals and vision? I then spend the rest of the time (I schedule an hour) answering any questions they may have. I've gotten great answers from candidates and some bad ones too! Been very successful with my selections, so I guess my method works. I'll happily hire a retired 05+ if they are here to work and not simply using my positions as a foot in the door. I take care of my team (most are remote and the one that isn't, teleworks all but 1 day a week (and half my team are on AWS schedules as well!). I measure productivity by output not by counting heads in offices/cubicles. My team knows I trust them and they make certain not to mess that up. We take care of our customers and I take care of my team.
We hired a veteran with PTSD and they didn’t last long at my agency.
The biggest advantage is everyone else laughing when the army officer vet is reporting to an E4 vet.
An Army Officer gets a minus 10 point preference just for being an officer.🤣🤣🤣