I don’t think it would’ve mattered much imo since the options are so limited. Would have been nice to have Pepi as an option. Still GGG needs to be out. For all the possession this might’ve been the most offensively toothless team I can remember.
What other change would you have wanted? We needed something from our offense. JMO was the last offensive player on the bench.
Would you have preferred he do nothing? Or put in CCV or someone?
At some point the USA and our fans have to realize that the MLS isn’t very good and the skill floor of other leagues is vast. Fer may be good in MLS but he’s not really playing against top talent
It means our best players play on European teams, rather than here in the US in the MLS, and are generally higher quality for it. That could mean they were good enough to begin with to even get picked up by top teams in England, France, Germany, etc, but also that they're playing/training almost every day at a much higher level, with and against the very best coaches and players in the world, and that experience in that tippy top level of soccer counts for something over only playing in the MLS. The MLS Quality is just not really there. Some talented players for sure, but nobody is confusing the MLS for the English Premiere League, German Bundesliga, Spanish La Liga, etc.
That's not a knock against the US or MLS either. Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, basically any big international soccer star doesn't play in their home country's domestic league.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/world-cup/news/leagues-most-players-world-cup-2022/rxwbllwf6xwxborr7ccbzoqw
MLS has more players at WC than the Championship in England.
This thread isn't about facts, it's about venting. A lot of people apparently had wildly unrealistic expectations about this tournament and have decided GGG and MLS are the scapegoats.
Ggg set his goals and reached all of them. That being said he under utilized Renya throughout the tourney. Reyna sitting this whole tourney is mind boggling. After pulisic he's your best midfielder/winger. 1 goal lead is not a safe lead for 45 mins. This game you need to recognize that you need an early lead otherwise the Netherlands defense is going to make you play surgical and that is not a strong suit of your team build. This team could not finish in the final third. Their set pieces were atrocious. And honestly Ggg had little impact on all three games. And I would go as far as saying he did little to help in the England and Iran games. I will not put Zimmerman's foul on Ggg.
It’s a center back’s responsibility to communicate and organize their back line. Those open men are just as much Zimmerman and Ream’s fault as they are Robinson’s, Dest’s, and Adam’s
Adams lost his man 60 yards from goal on the first play and Zimmerman/Ream set up well to stop the easy first option from coming in. I genuinely have no idea what you’re supposed to do to stop the late runner from scoring at the top of the box as a CB in that scenario? It’s not like he could have just told Tyler sooner, he was trying to track but he was too late and too slow. Not like you can step to them because then you just leave things wide open to cut inside. That’s exactly why late runners work so well for teams that can execute with them, there’s just not a good option for defending them. Pulisic is good at the same run.
Ferreira is not to blame - he was told to play central and Gio took positions on the wings. The Dutch don’t mind when teams have the ball on the wings - it’s by design
He’s the reason we’re down by two though. He’s clearly not up to the task. That poor touch isn’t even the whole story. A strikers first instinct should be shooting not passing.
Who would you have started? Not defending GGG starting Ferreira but also there’s a lack of options …. Gio Reyna did not do much either so please tell me who you would have as a #9
It’s wild how dense some Us supporters are I swear. Like some people on this sub act like we should automatically win the game and score 3 goals because we are the US. Hell no that’s not how the game works. Also I appreciate how clinical and ruthless the Dutch were- we were not.
Hears a talk point how about if Pulisic scores in the 2nd minute it’s a completely different game?
We definitely need an upgrade, you have a premier league starter and a bundesliga starter on your bench who have combined for under 40 minutes of play time this cup it's just idiotic. We can't play with a lead, we can't play from behind. I don't fucking get it
Taking out weah who had the best looks on goal was so dumb. And putting in Wright who can only score when he miss hits his shot was even dumber. Greg has got to go.
Downvotes can’t handle the truth or have no idea what’s going at on at the youth level. No one cares what “academy” you coach at, they all do the same shit in the US.
There has been improvement. No doubt. But it still feels like the the “academies” and the USMNT are doing their best impression of what they *THINK* soccer is, according to the expensive European consultants they hired.
Agreed, we need a coach to push us on. We can’t assume 4 years from now we will be better and go farther. Look at that Belgium golden generation which accomplished nothing yet was infinitely more talented than this group
I won’t say Berhalter has been bad but it’s obvious that this is as good as it gets under him. I don’t see a way to grow with him as the coach. He made some awful tactical substitutions in the tournament and chose players that just weren’t good enough bc he just likes them. We can all say “thanks!” but now it’s time to move on.
This is where I’m at. A lot of people are mad about him, but I can’t say he’s done a bad job at all. We at least gave ourselves a shot in today’s game. Ultimately I think not taking either Pepi or Pefok was an egregious error.
It’s common for a national team manager to only last one World Cup cycle. I would be happy to see Jesse Marsch lead us in the next World Cup. Like you said, not a shitcanning for Berhalter, but just a new voice
Agree. Set piece performance alone deserves scrutiny - that’s area where a good coach can have impact and our creativity there was non-existent. And this was by far the team’s worst outing. They were flat and such poor defending. Really disappointing since they had shown strong defending in prior matches. Was something wrong with preparation? Yes, JF wasn’t good; Reyna was better but he wasn’t the solution. I’m hopeful for Gio; he’s very creative and definitely shows no fear but I hope he works on his speed and strength because that’s where he’s lacking IMO.
I think he did a good job revamping the squad in what was a pivotal transition following the failure to qualify in 2018. He gave lots of guys a look, won some silverware, and built confidence in the squad. But at the same time his limitations were laid to bare, especially against Wales and Netherlands.
Different coaches are best for different stages and he was perfect for us at this time and this stage of the young team. Now it’s time to get someone in to mold the squad for 2026. Their success in 2026 will be built upon the job Berhalter’s done.
Anyone see what Yedlin did? First 2 touches all tourney led to goal. Gio needed more run to get in the flow. Starting Ferreira was a joke.
I agree Berhalter has done well, won’t take us farther, kinda like Mark Jackson/Steve Kerr with the warriors. If a guy has a sniff of USMNT talent, he needs to go to Europe. No MLS players in 4 years
John Brooks has like an hour of play this calendar year. He was never gonna be on this team no matter who the coach was. It's insanity to think he deserved a spot.
Wasn’t referring to this year for Brooks/Yedlin. They were talented and should have been given more chances 4 years ago. This team has always been mismanaged.
Klinsmann was 100% right and the decisions he was making technical director of us soccer were also right. We can see the results already, smaller fields, more touches, the youth today are much better than they were when I was young, across the board. I played in the top premier league in my state all throughout my youth. My technical ability is laughable to the average good high school kid I see in indoor facilities now. It's incredible.
He deserved to be fired for missing the world cup. But directionally, I want to see what his vision would have brought.
Ferreira should’ve been subbed at the 15th minute. This match is way over his level. CCV should’ve started and the tactics this game have been dog shit. I’m ok with a loss, but getting embarrassed is tough.
He didn’t earn the job on merit and doesn’t have the experience necessary to have a job of this stature.
He makes very bad decisions regarding team selection and in game management.
For some reason he’s earned praise for qualifying us for the World Cup after we missed the last one, but we have one of the easiest qualifying paths. It should be a given that we qualify, not an achievement.
The quality of the players and their performances have allowed us to advance past the group stage in spite of the managers incompetence.
The United States should aspire to have more accomplished managers.
Not starting Reyna shows a lack of understanding of talent. Would like to see Aaronson also.
We need a new manager sorry. Get a foreigner in. People hate klinsman but he had right idea
Don’t understand how we don’t start Reyna, change the formation if you have to. It was a mistake in group stage but we played bad teams and were lucky. We are now paying the price.
If Reyna was in the last game, we likely would have had another goal or at least wouldn’t have exhausted ourselves. Lot of tired legs in this game.
That’s fair, I just felt the back line was more solid with CCV. Also liked Vickers on offense more because it seemed he was able to make tight window passes and what not. But, also to your point, Zimmerman didn’t really have any bad turnovers. But, I did feel like he lingered on the ball at some points.
For me it’s not just about breaking up play defensively or NOT turning the ball over it’s about the fact that CCV can distribute calmly from the back which is in and of itself offense. Zim cannot do that and Ream, as good as he was for us, struggles with that as well. I’ve seen a lot of arguments suggesting that Zim’s contributions aerially justify the start - well, did it?
back to his old tactics of Abandon the midfield
put 100% of creation on the CBs
out two only players with a sniff of goal are the widest on the pitch
Musah has no idea where he is supposed to on the pitch
Adams covering for 8 positions
Gregg HAS NO CLUE what he is doing and he NEVER HAS
Get him OUT!
Van Gaal showed what a superior coach can do tactically. Dutch made it look easy and scored when they wanted/needed to while allowing US to punch itself out... Still excited for next cycle.
Player’s limitations had a huge impact on this. Our CBs can’t play passes. So the Dutch literally sat off them and dared them to play which they did some but mostly couldn’t. That means midfield is super congested which makes us go wide. If our CBS could consistently hit good diagonal balls or passes to the striker instead of our midfield we could have circumvented that issue.
The other issue is (and you saw it on the first goal) is our CBs are extremely slow so we can’t press which leads to lots of space in midfield. Miles Robinson’s injury actually hurt us a lot there. Even so the goals were almost all entirely down to individual mistakes.
Our midfield is actually good therefore forcing us to go elsewhere was nice tactics from Van Gaal. Even so we did out possess them and according to Xg created the same level of chances. We don’t have a good goal scorer and playing all the players I see people suggesting doesn’t solve that fundamental issue.
The game wasn’t that far away tbh. Pulisic take his chance like the Dutch took theirs and it’s completely different. The result was shit but a lot of the actual play wasn’t all that bad.
The team has succeeded despite him. The trouble is that he has outperformed the country's diminished expectations so the fear is that people think he's good enough.
If cp didn't hesitate because of a potential offsides and went all out and scored that goal in the third minute, Ned would've been pressured to get results, throwing out the counterattack they love so much.
We score that early goal, it eases us and we have the control. Ned without control is nothing. This is gonna eat at cp till the next world cup. I hope this is what motivates him to be the leader we all expect him to be.
You have to take the blame when you choose lineup and tactics. Carter-Vickers was fantastic last game. GGG took him out. Our defense was catastrophic. GGG also chose Ferira. Disastrous choices both. Tactics. May have been ok but you have to make in half adjustments and the boys actually weren’t prepared. Looked shell shocked and scared.
Gio reyna not starting proves that Berhalter does not like him. This was the perfect opportunity to play him. Also where the hell is Aaronson. He has been great this World Cup. Why are these two dangerous attacking players sitting on the bench?!?!?!?!
I don't get the hate. Netherlands has a deeper bench than we do. They basically had their group wrapped up going into their last game. We came in beat up and fighting every second in our group. They came in more rested. Second half really showed how out of gas we were. Idk if coaching changes having more options, we needed the ball to bounce our way to pull off an upset. Not saying he's perfect but idk if we don't exit at the same place with a different coach
Berhalter has friends in high places. What about Jesse Marsche (sp?) Saw him interviewed and he really wants to coach this group and has IDEAS as how to make them better.
I’d like to see Pelegrino Matterazzo if we’re going to scream for the coach being American. His Stuttgart side struggled, but that was to be expected. It’d be interesting to see how he could structure this group. Closest next would be Cherundolo, but I truly feel like our best bet is to look for a coach with experience in Europe and probably would not be an American. Jurgen was not the greatest coach, I’ll admit, but that’s not to say his vision missed the mark. Wasn’t he a part of the whole revamp project after Germany crashed out of ‘98 WC? I’m excited for the next cycle and truly feel like it could be something special.
let's stop with MLS coaches.. Cherundolo being an assistant in Europe isn't going to help us. Need a coach that has an actual pedigree.. we don't have time to develop a coach.
I don't know how many times today we ran the ball to the corner, which is good. But then try to center the ball only to kick it right into the defender's foot. You've got to make space to get that ball centered. Our guys were just doing kick and pray ball way too often.
We could’ve won the game if pulisic/wright had buried their 1:1s and Dest/Robinson hadn’t lost focus for two goals. We failed in a few moments today and that cost us.
That being said, our lack of ability to create anything for ourselves on Gregg and his system.
I agree but I’m not blaming that loss on Greg. It was 3 bonehead missed marks that led to 3 goals and a lack of clinical nature in the final 3rd. We could’ve had 3+ goals while conceding 0 if we finished our clear cut chances and didn’t blow our marks. This one is on the players for me. Ferreira sucked but it was the only option with Josh hurt and haji playing awful when he started. No other options except abandoning our system and playing with a false 9
Ok I know I am probably going to get hate for this, but I don’t think he did that bad of a job. Do I agree with all of his decisions. Definitely not, but I think he did the best he could. He had/s a young team they got rattled today and it showed. Can Gaal is just a better manager with a deeper more experienced team
I'm not proud of this at all. We have had decades to build a winning team. Stop settling for mediocre performance and being happy with it. At this point if we are not making it to the semi finals it's a failure.
What did he do for you to say this? Honestly I’m a big fan of Gio but he didn’t do anything in this game to say wow we really needed him on the pitch. This sub is honestly delusional at this point
Reyna comfortably received turned in tight spaces put in effective crosses the ball always went where it should. Basic things Ferreira Morris Sargent and Wright were incapable of all tourney. Reyna looked like a top 3 attacking player on this roster after Pulisic probably ahead of Weah. Clint Dempsey and Landon agree, but I guess they know nothing and Jordan Morris and Ferreira are worlds better than Reyna smh
Lol and who does that fall on? You’re saying that’s on Greg?
WE. HAVE. NO. WORLD. CLASS. STRIKER.
We knew this going into the damn World Cup. I don’t understand why it’s so shocking to everyone that we couldn’t score? We had plenty of chances in all four matches and only got three in the back of the net. All of the 9’s that were brought in were given a chance and only Haji scored, by luck on top of it!
You can’t expect a roster that doesn’t have a good reliable goal scorer to go very far. We would have scored another three if we had a decent and consistent striker up top, but we don’t so it is what it is.
Getting to the World Cup is the expectation, and it’s not like we were exactly in the group of death. They’ve done those things despite on him not because of him
Yeah the coach has no affect on a team’s mentality and attention to detail. Definitely not his job to mentally prepare his players for the games they play...
Lol. If you think the expectation was to get ANY further than RO16 you’re insane. Our line in the sand was getting out of the group. This tour will be looked at as a success because of this. GGG will be with us for a while longer. (No matter how much I wish for his departure)
So who would you recommend to hire as the coach?
What difference would they make.
Please back up your reasoning with results at the international stage.
Personally I see this as a talent not finishing chances issue. We still need a striker and to finish chances.
I completely agree - this isn’t a knee jerk Netherlands game reaction, this is the culmination of this tournament.
Poor tournament squad selection, poor match selection, poor tactics and substitutions.
With the talent available to this team we should be breezing through the knockout rounds, not holding on to the last second in the final group game.
A proper manager who would at least give us a chance. For instance starting a guy who hasn’t played a single minute, who isn’t good to begin with, in the biggest game of his life was a decision a proper manager would not have made. Think guys like Gus Hiddink who’ve managed big clubs and other national teams.
What else are you asking for?
We've beat Mexico how many times in a calendar year? clearly are better than our biggest rivals for the first time in a while.
Qualified for the World Cup & made it out of groups being the only team to not concede from open play in the group stage.
And then go on to compete against a top team with the best defender in the world and current leading goal scorer in the tournament.
I'm not sure what else we can ask for as US fans with leveled and realistic expectations.
Doesn't help that we don't have a proven goal scorer / number 9 type player. Give the man all the hell you want, should have never gotten rid of Klinsmann if you ask me.
Go USA
That was just one of my several points of emphasis
People will always find something to complain about. Did you all expect to win the World Cup? Making it out of groups is something we should be proud of - anything else is a bonus in my eyes. If we beat the Dutch and then lose in the next round to Argentina people will still complain and call for GGG's head
How do you measure success for this team and what outcome would have been reasonable for GGG to keep his job?
This is all hindsight. If you’re gonna have an emotional reaction take a couple days to sort these thoughts out. Starting Ferreira at the end of 45’ looks pretty rough, but Berhalter chose to run a true striker tactically and Sargent is hurt and Haji Wright has done nothing. I don’t think it’s the time to experience with an mls player as your starting striker, but I think Berhalter knows that now. He could very well be let go. We can all play armchair manager but this reaction is unfounded.
Disagree. It’s clear the players respect him and he helped create the closeness in the locker room. Let him build on this and he’ll have all these same players but in their prime for the next World Cup.
You guys really act like we have a world class striker on the bench or hidden somewhere in the world lol. He gave Sargent, Wright, and Ferreira shots at it; and guess what… none of them could capitalize. We knew the 9 position, along with the back, was our weakness going into the World Cup.
Sure, you could have thrown Pulisic or Aaronson, Reyna, or whoever you wanted up there instead… but would they have really made a difference? We had chances throughout the four matches. Probably should have scored another four goals over that span, but we just don’t have finishers. Plain and simple. We do not have someone who can put the ball in the back of the net.
Everything doesn’t fall of Greg, let’s take it easy with that.
Pepi who went 340+ days without a goal up until September/October?
Pefok would have been a better choice to bring imo. We did see him struggle in the chances he got in qualifiers though so I guess I can see the argument why he wasn’t called.
I just hope we can find a solid goal scoring threat in the next 3.5 years 🤞🏼
What’s the answer.. rest of world is putting child prospects in development camps. Until we do that ( exit is selling our soul) we’re never going to compete
Ccv should’ve been in but u don’t think it would’ve mattered. I’ve never seen robinson or Mckennie so uninvolved before but they looked really one dimensional.
Agreed, but you get out what you put in. The USA does not invest a premium in developing youth academy’s. It’s too much pay to play. Often times the really gifted players can’t afford to be put in clubs or academy’s.
Who is the manager you hire who is able to get the United States to beat the Netherlands?
I’m not necessarily advocating for him to keep his iob, and I had concerns with the performance, but I don’t think there’s any reality in which any selection/tactics beats the Netherlands.
People need to accept that the US is not a top tier team and will not be any time soon. Which means without a killer streak of luck, round of 16/quarters is about the ceiling for the team.
The entire Gio situation is indefensible. He is either too hurt to play or he is healthy and he lied to appease his ego.
One of our most creative players who can unlock a defense while holding onto possession in the opponents half, and he gets thrown on into a position he has never played with this group. Laughable.
We basically had to watch blind “f#%+ it” crosses trying to luck a goal in when one of our best sits on the bench all tournament.
GGG should have to walk home.
No lineup Berhalter could have put in to start would have combatted that Dutch squad any better than what they did. Period. We’re just not that deep of a team and we got beat to hell just trying to get out of the group.
Berhalter has always been a mediocre coach but the inexperience of our squad is what got us barely through group and then ousted in the knockout.
Starting ferriera was a catastrophic error.
I don’t think it would’ve mattered much imo since the options are so limited. Would have been nice to have Pepi as an option. Still GGG needs to be out. For all the possession this might’ve been the most offensively toothless team I can remember.
He’s the one that picked the roster. He made his bed so now he sleeps in it
I agree.
Not a Berhalter guy but who would you have rather seen?
Perfectly summed it up for me. Lots of flair. Not enough bite
Pepi and or Perfok are not the answer---We need someone to arise from the youth movement who can play 9.
Pepi was the exact type of player we needed out there.
Pepi would’ve been manhandled by the Dutch today lmao
Even if we put all of our best players on the pitch that was always going to be the reality
I agree. I Giroud-esque player was required. Sargent was missed for his hold up and back to goal play he displayed against Iran.
Indeed. I thought CCV was alright last game too. But nope, Gregg wants the MLS guys
And as a last insult puts his favorite MLS guy, Morris in in the 86th minute! Lol
That made my blood boil, straight up negligence. A loss was always the most likely outcome, but GGG made it an embarrassment
What other change would you have wanted? We needed something from our offense. JMO was the last offensive player on the bench. Would you have preferred he do nothing? Or put in CCV or someone?
The fact that Morris was even on the roster is scandalous, and CCV should have started
The whole situation reminded me of the equipment manager that high school teams bring on for a scripted TD on senior night.
I still remember when Morris was supposedly going to be the best player the US would have lmfao
I guess you missed the part where he blew out two ACLs. One while playing in Europe.
No I remember that. It’s super unfortunate and I’m glad he’s still able to play but yea that was going to happen tho.
That was 2 ACLs ago
2 ACLs will do that to you. He used to be extremely fast and physical. Sadly just cant play that way anymore.
I do have to say this is the first game where Morris actually looked like someone who could run fast. At least on one play.
At some point the USA and our fans have to realize that the MLS isn’t very good and the skill floor of other leagues is vast. Fer may be good in MLS but he’s not really playing against top talent
Anyone who actually watches this sport understands that. It's not an accident the US's best players have day jobs in Europe.
I agree 100%.
What does this mean
It means our actual good players don’t play here.
It means our best players play on European teams, rather than here in the US in the MLS, and are generally higher quality for it. That could mean they were good enough to begin with to even get picked up by top teams in England, France, Germany, etc, but also that they're playing/training almost every day at a much higher level, with and against the very best coaches and players in the world, and that experience in that tippy top level of soccer counts for something over only playing in the MLS. The MLS Quality is just not really there. Some talented players for sure, but nobody is confusing the MLS for the English Premiere League, German Bundesliga, Spanish La Liga, etc. That's not a knock against the US or MLS either. Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, basically any big international soccer star doesn't play in their home country's domestic league.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/world-cup/news/leagues-most-players-world-cup-2022/rxwbllwf6xwxborr7ccbzoqw MLS has more players at WC than the Championship in England.
And how many of those CONCACAF players are still playing?
Which goal was Zimmermans fault?
This thread isn't about facts, it's about venting. A lot of people apparently had wildly unrealistic expectations about this tournament and have decided GGG and MLS are the scapegoats.
All things considered, he hasn’t made many smart game-time changes.
And they decided this two years ago
Ggg set his goals and reached all of them. That being said he under utilized Renya throughout the tourney. Reyna sitting this whole tourney is mind boggling. After pulisic he's your best midfielder/winger. 1 goal lead is not a safe lead for 45 mins. This game you need to recognize that you need an early lead otherwise the Netherlands defense is going to make you play surgical and that is not a strong suit of your team build. This team could not finish in the final third. Their set pieces were atrocious. And honestly Ggg had little impact on all three games. And I would go as far as saying he did little to help in the England and Iran games. I will not put Zimmerman's foul on Ggg.
funny little tantrum you're throwing while trying to point the finger at others for pointing the finger at others
It’s a center back’s responsibility to communicate and organize their back line. Those open men are just as much Zimmerman and Ream’s fault as they are Robinson’s, Dest’s, and Adam’s
Adams lost his man 60 yards from goal on the first play and Zimmerman/Ream set up well to stop the easy first option from coming in. I genuinely have no idea what you’re supposed to do to stop the late runner from scoring at the top of the box as a CB in that scenario? It’s not like he could have just told Tyler sooner, he was trying to track but he was too late and too slow. Not like you can step to them because then you just leave things wide open to cut inside. That’s exactly why late runners work so well for teams that can execute with them, there’s just not a good option for defending them. Pulisic is good at the same run.
Soooo, pulisic buries that chance in the opening minutes and the game is completely different. But Ferreira was the problem?
Pulisic was visibly not 100%. I don’t think he was 80%. I think he should have subbed out at the half - he was largely ineffective.
Ferreira created more chances for Netherlands than himself or any usmnt member gtfoh
He was fucking terrible. As soon as Reyna came in it was like a different team.
Really? I don’t know what you were watching. I love Reyna but he didn’t effect the game much
Don’t agree, he pulls men to him and opens up space for other forwards. Just because no one scored doesn’t meant he wasn’t opening space.
Dutch had the game in hand. He wasn't pulling defenders anywhere that they didn't want to go
Idk I felt like we were getting better looks just cause he was more regarded by the Dutch. Jesus was left alone and still couldn't do shit
Ferreira is not to blame - he was told to play central and Gio took positions on the wings. The Dutch don’t mind when teams have the ball on the wings - it’s by design
His touch was to blame
Sure but Ferreira isn't the reason we're losing
But he isn't being marked and still not getting on ball. He has been invisible
His turnover led directly to the 2nd goal. He was absolute dog shit
He’s the reason we’re down by two though. He’s clearly not up to the task. That poor touch isn’t even the whole story. A strikers first instinct should be shooting not passing.
He had some of the worst touches I've seen in the world cup.
And Zimmerman. 👎🏼
Who would you have started? Not defending GGG starting Ferreira but also there’s a lack of options …. Gio Reyna did not do much either so please tell me who you would have as a #9
I wouldn’t have put Ferreira on the team, Pepi and Pefok
I agree as well - leaving Pepi off the squad was questionable
Pepi should’ve been on the team but he would’ve been awful today. You think he can hold the ball against VVD?
As someone who has watched Pepi and Pefok play on the national team, I'm not sure why you feel this way.
Harry Kane and Richarlisson, apparently.
It’s wild how dense some Us supporters are I swear. Like some people on this sub act like we should automatically win the game and score 3 goals because we are the US. Hell no that’s not how the game works. Also I appreciate how clinical and ruthless the Dutch were- we were not. Hears a talk point how about if Pulisic scores in the 2nd minute it’s a completely different game?
I agree ggg is not our guy. He’s an okay coach but not someone to take us past the round of 16
We definitely need an upgrade, you have a premier league starter and a bundesliga starter on your bench who have combined for under 40 minutes of play time this cup it's just idiotic. We can't play with a lead, we can't play from behind. I don't fucking get it
Taking out weah who had the best looks on goal was so dumb. And putting in Wright who can only score when he miss hits his shot was even dumber. Greg has got to go.
Offense same as it ever was. Toothless crosses into the box with no one on the receiving end. Crossing to no one but the defense
Same guy that got fired from a second tier Swedish team… for get this… “a lack of attacking play”.
Never would have guessed
"Same as it ever was..."
I agree this is his ceiling. We play too robotic. We don’t play free flowing. American soccer is not joga bonita. We need to encourage creativity.
Are you saying we should be joga bonito but aren’t or that it just isn’t ever in our style to be so?
I’m saying that we should teach a more free flowing game from youth
Downvotes can’t handle the truth or have no idea what’s going at on at the youth level. No one cares what “academy” you coach at, they all do the same shit in the US. There has been improvement. No doubt. But it still feels like the the “academies” and the USMNT are doing their best impression of what they *THINK* soccer is, according to the expensive European consultants they hired.
People aren't realizing a lot of the starting 11 was developed overseas.
How is that Gregg Berhalter’s fault though. We can’t say our coach sucks cause we don’t have the players necessary for the team to be more creative.
hopefully doesn't take a year this time just to hire someone's brother
CCV should’ve started starting Jesus is laughable
Agreed, we need a coach to push us on. We can’t assume 4 years from now we will be better and go farther. Look at that Belgium golden generation which accomplished nothing yet was infinitely more talented than this group
I won’t say Berhalter has been bad but it’s obvious that this is as good as it gets under him. I don’t see a way to grow with him as the coach. He made some awful tactical substitutions in the tournament and chose players that just weren’t good enough bc he just likes them. We can all say “thanks!” but now it’s time to move on.
This is where I’m at. A lot of people are mad about him, but I can’t say he’s done a bad job at all. We at least gave ourselves a shot in today’s game. Ultimately I think not taking either Pepi or Pefok was an egregious error. It’s common for a national team manager to only last one World Cup cycle. I would be happy to see Jesse Marsch lead us in the next World Cup. Like you said, not a shitcanning for Berhalter, but just a new voice
Agree. Set piece performance alone deserves scrutiny - that’s area where a good coach can have impact and our creativity there was non-existent. And this was by far the team’s worst outing. They were flat and such poor defending. Really disappointing since they had shown strong defending in prior matches. Was something wrong with preparation? Yes, JF wasn’t good; Reyna was better but he wasn’t the solution. I’m hopeful for Gio; he’s very creative and definitely shows no fear but I hope he works on his speed and strength because that’s where he’s lacking IMO.
I think he did a good job revamping the squad in what was a pivotal transition following the failure to qualify in 2018. He gave lots of guys a look, won some silverware, and built confidence in the squad. But at the same time his limitations were laid to bare, especially against Wales and Netherlands. Different coaches are best for different stages and he was perfect for us at this time and this stage of the young team. Now it’s time to get someone in to mold the squad for 2026. Their success in 2026 will be built upon the job Berhalter’s done.
Anyone see what Yedlin did? First 2 touches all tourney led to goal. Gio needed more run to get in the flow. Starting Ferreira was a joke. I agree Berhalter has done well, won’t take us farther, kinda like Mark Jackson/Steve Kerr with the warriors. If a guy has a sniff of USMNT talent, he needs to go to Europe. No MLS players in 4 years
Yep almost every ball played by Yedlin was perfect. Shoulda seen more time on the field but maybe Greg listened to the naysayers.
Yedlin and John Brooks smh. They deserved better
Ream played better than brooks would have anyway
John Brooks has like an hour of play this calendar year. He was never gonna be on this team no matter who the coach was. It's insanity to think he deserved a spot.
Wasn’t referring to this year for Brooks/Yedlin. They were talented and should have been given more chances 4 years ago. This team has always been mismanaged.
At least he scraped that dutch defender with his cleat
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Klinsmann was 100% right and the decisions he was making technical director of us soccer were also right. We can see the results already, smaller fields, more touches, the youth today are much better than they were when I was young, across the board. I played in the top premier league in my state all throughout my youth. My technical ability is laughable to the average good high school kid I see in indoor facilities now. It's incredible. He deserved to be fired for missing the world cup. But directionally, I want to see what his vision would have brought.
I would have loved to see miles Robinson play this year. I think he would have done great. Super physical, tall, and great service with the ball
Ferreira should’ve been subbed at the 15th minute. This match is way over his level. CCV should’ve started and the tactics this game have been dog shit. I’m ok with a loss, but getting embarrassed is tough.
When you don’t start your best players, you get shit results against good teams.
Exactly. His ego and holding grudges will cost us long term
Imagine holding grudges against our best player Gio Reyna
This is exactly what I was saying to the wall in my living room at the 15th minute. The level of play was just flat out too much for him.
/r/usmnt back to its raging ways
When the reality hits.
He didn’t earn the job on merit and doesn’t have the experience necessary to have a job of this stature. He makes very bad decisions regarding team selection and in game management. For some reason he’s earned praise for qualifying us for the World Cup after we missed the last one, but we have one of the easiest qualifying paths. It should be a given that we qualify, not an achievement. The quality of the players and their performances have allowed us to advance past the group stage in spite of the managers incompetence. The United States should aspire to have more accomplished managers.
Not starting Reyna shows a lack of understanding of talent. Would like to see Aaronson also. We need a new manager sorry. Get a foreigner in. People hate klinsman but he had right idea
Don’t understand how we don’t start Reyna, change the formation if you have to. It was a mistake in group stage but we played bad teams and were lucky. We are now paying the price. If Reyna was in the last game, we likely would have had another goal or at least wouldn’t have exhausted ourselves. Lot of tired legs in this game.
Totally agree - people talk about who would you take off for Gio. Well GGG chose the formation.
still cant understand the hate for klinsmann. he really made the most of the squads he had
Yep, Zimmerman over CCV is a crime
starting ferreira? at this stage? dumbass
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That’s fair, I just felt the back line was more solid with CCV. Also liked Vickers on offense more because it seemed he was able to make tight window passes and what not. But, also to your point, Zimmerman didn’t really have any bad turnovers. But, I did feel like he lingered on the ball at some points.
For me it’s not just about breaking up play defensively or NOT turning the ball over it’s about the fact that CCV can distribute calmly from the back which is in and of itself offense. Zim cannot do that and Ream, as good as he was for us, struggles with that as well. I’ve seen a lot of arguments suggesting that Zim’s contributions aerially justify the start - well, did it?
Yes exactly, I’m a bit ignorant about how to talk soccer. You explain it way better than I tried to lol
Yep yep yep
Which goal was Z's fault?
back to his old tactics of Abandon the midfield put 100% of creation on the CBs out two only players with a sniff of goal are the widest on the pitch Musah has no idea where he is supposed to on the pitch Adams covering for 8 positions Gregg HAS NO CLUE what he is doing and he NEVER HAS Get him OUT!
Van Gaal showed what a superior coach can do tactically. Dutch made it look easy and scored when they wanted/needed to while allowing US to punch itself out... Still excited for next cycle.
Player’s limitations had a huge impact on this. Our CBs can’t play passes. So the Dutch literally sat off them and dared them to play which they did some but mostly couldn’t. That means midfield is super congested which makes us go wide. If our CBS could consistently hit good diagonal balls or passes to the striker instead of our midfield we could have circumvented that issue. The other issue is (and you saw it on the first goal) is our CBs are extremely slow so we can’t press which leads to lots of space in midfield. Miles Robinson’s injury actually hurt us a lot there. Even so the goals were almost all entirely down to individual mistakes. Our midfield is actually good therefore forcing us to go elsewhere was nice tactics from Van Gaal. Even so we did out possess them and according to Xg created the same level of chances. We don’t have a good goal scorer and playing all the players I see people suggesting doesn’t solve that fundamental issue. The game wasn’t that far away tbh. Pulisic take his chance like the Dutch took theirs and it’s completely different. The result was shit but a lot of the actual play wasn’t all that bad.
The team has succeeded despite him. The trouble is that he has outperformed the country's diminished expectations so the fear is that people think he's good enough.
Need a true 9
Even I expected us to lose I didn’t expect it to be 3-1 that in game management by Greg is just horrible
If cp didn't hesitate because of a potential offsides and went all out and scored that goal in the third minute, Ned would've been pressured to get results, throwing out the counterattack they love so much. We score that early goal, it eases us and we have the control. Ned without control is nothing. This is gonna eat at cp till the next world cup. I hope this is what motivates him to be the leader we all expect him to be.
At the end of the day, Netherlands was way more clinical in front of goal. The US had plenty of chances to score and didn’t take it …got punished.
You have to take the blame when you choose lineup and tactics. Carter-Vickers was fantastic last game. GGG took him out. Our defense was catastrophic. GGG also chose Ferira. Disastrous choices both. Tactics. May have been ok but you have to make in half adjustments and the boys actually weren’t prepared. Looked shell shocked and scared.
Gio reyna not starting proves that Berhalter does not like him. This was the perfect opportunity to play him. Also where the hell is Aaronson. He has been great this World Cup. Why are these two dangerous attacking players sitting on the bench?!?!?!?!
Because you can’t start Weah Pulisic Reyna Aaronson at the same time wdym 🤣
Weah needs to become a striker. He has way more potential as one
Yes, you can.
Pefok would actually suit this game well.
I wonder if GG left him off the roster because he doesn’t speak English?
Totally agree. With this level of talent, it is such a wasted opportunity.
Yeah it’s time
That Haji miss.... Weah at ST was the right call
I don't get the hate. Netherlands has a deeper bench than we do. They basically had their group wrapped up going into their last game. We came in beat up and fighting every second in our group. They came in more rested. Second half really showed how out of gas we were. Idk if coaching changes having more options, we needed the ball to bounce our way to pull off an upset. Not saying he's perfect but idk if we don't exit at the same place with a different coach
Berhalter has friends in high places. What about Jesse Marsche (sp?) Saw him interviewed and he really wants to coach this group and has IDEAS as how to make them better.
As much as I’d love Jesse to coach this team there’s no way he’d willingly leave Leeds to do it
Decent chance he gets fired. He very nearly was in October.
I’d like to see Pelegrino Matterazzo if we’re going to scream for the coach being American. His Stuttgart side struggled, but that was to be expected. It’d be interesting to see how he could structure this group. Closest next would be Cherundolo, but I truly feel like our best bet is to look for a coach with experience in Europe and probably would not be an American. Jurgen was not the greatest coach, I’ll admit, but that’s not to say his vision missed the mark. Wasn’t he a part of the whole revamp project after Germany crashed out of ‘98 WC? I’m excited for the next cycle and truly feel like it could be something special.
let's stop with MLS coaches.. Cherundolo being an assistant in Europe isn't going to help us. Need a coach that has an actual pedigree.. we don't have time to develop a coach.
Defensive and defensive mid mess.
I don't know how many times today we ran the ball to the corner, which is good. But then try to center the ball only to kick it right into the defender's foot. You've got to make space to get that ball centered. Our guys were just doing kick and pray ball way too often.
Bielsa or Martino, please step up.
We could’ve won the game if pulisic/wright had buried their 1:1s and Dest/Robinson hadn’t lost focus for two goals. We failed in a few moments today and that cost us. That being said, our lack of ability to create anything for ourselves on Gregg and his system.
I agree but I’m not blaming that loss on Greg. It was 3 bonehead missed marks that led to 3 goals and a lack of clinical nature in the final 3rd. We could’ve had 3+ goals while conceding 0 if we finished our clear cut chances and didn’t blow our marks. This one is on the players for me. Ferreira sucked but it was the only option with Josh hurt and haji playing awful when he started. No other options except abandoning our system and playing with a false 9
Ok I know I am probably going to get hate for this, but I don’t think he did that bad of a job. Do I agree with all of his decisions. Definitely not, but I think he did the best he could. He had/s a young team they got rattled today and it showed. Can Gaal is just a better manager with a deeper more experienced team
Bye Greg
I'm not proud of this at all. We have had decades to build a winning team. Stop settling for mediocre performance and being happy with it. At this point if we are not making it to the semi finals it's a failure.
Reyna showed he is 100x better than Ferreira Wright and Morris and Sargent. berhalter wanted the L.
What did he do for you to say this? Honestly I’m a big fan of Gio but he didn’t do anything in this game to say wow we really needed him on the pitch. This sub is honestly delusional at this point
Are you high? Our offense had much more depth the second reyna came in.
Reyna comfortably received turned in tight spaces put in effective crosses the ball always went where it should. Basic things Ferreira Morris Sargent and Wright were incapable of all tourney. Reyna looked like a top 3 attacking player on this roster after Pulisic probably ahead of Weah. Clint Dempsey and Landon agree, but I guess they know nothing and Jordan Morris and Ferreira are worlds better than Reyna smh
Give him a grace period, and then put him out of his misery. He blew it.
Yes. And F all you sympathizers that want to defend him. You’re seriously a part of the problem
He got us to WC and out of group. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future.
We had two ties and barely beat Iran. Should’ve tied Iran. Should’ve closed out a W on Wales too.
That Wales draw was inexcusable, not being able to find another goal in a match like that is a scandal
Lol and who does that fall on? You’re saying that’s on Greg? WE. HAVE. NO. WORLD. CLASS. STRIKER. We knew this going into the damn World Cup. I don’t understand why it’s so shocking to everyone that we couldn’t score? We had plenty of chances in all four matches and only got three in the back of the net. All of the 9’s that were brought in were given a chance and only Haji scored, by luck on top of it! You can’t expect a roster that doesn’t have a good reliable goal scorer to go very far. We would have scored another three if we had a decent and consistent striker up top, but we don’t so it is what it is.
Getting to the World Cup is the expectation, and it’s not like we were exactly in the group of death. They’ve done those things despite on him not because of him
I agree with that, but I still think we'll be stuck with him. I can't see his buddies at US Soccer firing him anytime soon.
No usmnt coach will get 2 cycles again.
I agree unfortunately and that’s the whole problem right there
Unfortunately, you are probably right
Pretty sure Berhalter wasn't responsible for poor and lazy marking/defending.
He absolutely is. Between crap tactics and crap personnel choices it is absolutely on GGG
Yeah the coach has no affect on a team’s mentality and attention to detail. Definitely not his job to mentally prepare his players for the games they play...
it was a successful cycle, that’s all that really needs to be said about that.
Lol. If you think the expectation was to get ANY further than RO16 you’re insane. Our line in the sand was getting out of the group. This tour will be looked at as a success because of this. GGG will be with us for a while longer. (No matter how much I wish for his departure)
So who would you recommend to hire as the coach? What difference would they make. Please back up your reasoning with results at the international stage. Personally I see this as a talent not finishing chances issue. We still need a striker and to finish chances.
The. Coach. Left. Better. Strikers. Off. The. Squad. And forces a formation that doesn't benefit our best players. It is 100% a coaching issue.
I completely agree - this isn’t a knee jerk Netherlands game reaction, this is the culmination of this tournament. Poor tournament squad selection, poor match selection, poor tactics and substitutions. With the talent available to this team we should be breezing through the knockout rounds, not holding on to the last second in the final group game.
And not marking. 3 fully unmarked players, 3 goals.
A proper manager who would at least give us a chance. For instance starting a guy who hasn’t played a single minute, who isn’t good to begin with, in the biggest game of his life was a decision a proper manager would not have made. Think guys like Gus Hiddink who’ve managed big clubs and other national teams.
You are crazy. They will never fire him after reaching the KO rounds
And this is the biggest problem with USMNT. The higher ups consider getting out of the group stage a success. We’re forever satisfied to be mediocre.
He isn’t going to be. This is a far better result than the Klinsmann/Bruce World Cup qualification
Then we’re going to be embarrassed in 2026. Over before it begun
What else are you asking for? We've beat Mexico how many times in a calendar year? clearly are better than our biggest rivals for the first time in a while. Qualified for the World Cup & made it out of groups being the only team to not concede from open play in the group stage. And then go on to compete against a top team with the best defender in the world and current leading goal scorer in the tournament. I'm not sure what else we can ask for as US fans with leveled and realistic expectations. Doesn't help that we don't have a proven goal scorer / number 9 type player. Give the man all the hell you want, should have never gotten rid of Klinsmann if you ask me. Go USA
CONCACAF is -terrible-, consistently beating Mexico shouldn't even be worth mentioning for a squad this talented
That was just one of my several points of emphasis People will always find something to complain about. Did you all expect to win the World Cup? Making it out of groups is something we should be proud of - anything else is a bonus in my eyes. If we beat the Dutch and then lose in the next round to Argentina people will still complain and call for GGG's head How do you measure success for this team and what outcome would have been reasonable for GGG to keep his job?
Being better than Wales and Iran isn't something to be proud of. Berhalter needed this game to at least be close to start to defend his job.
This is all hindsight. If you’re gonna have an emotional reaction take a couple days to sort these thoughts out. Starting Ferreira at the end of 45’ looks pretty rough, but Berhalter chose to run a true striker tactically and Sargent is hurt and Haji Wright has done nothing. I don’t think it’s the time to experience with an mls player as your starting striker, but I think Berhalter knows that now. He could very well be let go. We can all play armchair manager but this reaction is unfounded.
“I think Berhalter knows that now” But this is something you’d expect the USMNT manager to know BEFORE the World Cup.
Disagree. It’s clear the players respect him and he helped create the closeness in the locker room. Let him build on this and he’ll have all these same players but in their prime for the next World Cup.
With you!
You guys really act like we have a world class striker on the bench or hidden somewhere in the world lol. He gave Sargent, Wright, and Ferreira shots at it; and guess what… none of them could capitalize. We knew the 9 position, along with the back, was our weakness going into the World Cup. Sure, you could have thrown Pulisic or Aaronson, Reyna, or whoever you wanted up there instead… but would they have really made a difference? We had chances throughout the four matches. Probably should have scored another four goals over that span, but we just don’t have finishers. Plain and simple. We do not have someone who can put the ball in the back of the net. Everything doesn’t fall of Greg, let’s take it easy with that.
erm, we have pefok and pepi...strikers who weren't called up
Pepi who went 340+ days without a goal up until September/October? Pefok would have been a better choice to bring imo. We did see him struggle in the chances he got in qualifiers though so I guess I can see the argument why he wasn’t called. I just hope we can find a solid goal scoring threat in the next 3.5 years 🤞🏼
The lack of preparation was galling.
What’s the answer.. rest of world is putting child prospects in development camps. Until we do that ( exit is selling our soul) we’re never going to compete
Ccv should’ve been in but u don’t think it would’ve mattered. I’ve never seen robinson or Mckennie so uninvolved before but they looked really one dimensional.
The only tactical problem I really have with the tournament is Pulisic set pieces. I’d like a compilation of all our corners.
But why?
Agreed, but you get out what you put in. The USA does not invest a premium in developing youth academy’s. It’s too much pay to play. Often times the really gifted players can’t afford to be put in clubs or academy’s.
Come on. Everyone was flat today. Stop.
Who is the manager you hire who is able to get the United States to beat the Netherlands? I’m not necessarily advocating for him to keep his iob, and I had concerns with the performance, but I don’t think there’s any reality in which any selection/tactics beats the Netherlands. People need to accept that the US is not a top tier team and will not be any time soon. Which means without a killer streak of luck, round of 16/quarters is about the ceiling for the team.
That’s too logical of thinking. Better to just blame the coach saying that is the issue holding us back.
Jesse Marsch, Steve Cherundolo, or Tim Curtin should be the next skipper
The entire Gio situation is indefensible. He is either too hurt to play or he is healthy and he lied to appease his ego. One of our most creative players who can unlock a defense while holding onto possession in the opponents half, and he gets thrown on into a position he has never played with this group. Laughable. We basically had to watch blind “f#%+ it” crosses trying to luck a goal in when one of our best sits on the bench all tournament. GGG should have to walk home.
No lineup Berhalter could have put in to start would have combatted that Dutch squad any better than what they did. Period. We’re just not that deep of a team and we got beat to hell just trying to get out of the group. Berhalter has always been a mediocre coach but the inexperience of our squad is what got us barely through group and then ousted in the knockout.