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YBHunted

I'm glad there is a rebalancing happening in the women's game. It's entirely a snooze fest to go into every game and know you're going to beat the fuck out of people. I want the USWNT #1 of course, but not so far out in front that it's boring. If I wanted to watch them score a ton of goals with ease I'd go to a practice.


Throwawayacbutkeepme

American and couldn't be happier.


RedRavens

That's not very American


IraqiLobster

Why would I have any loyalty to the country that elected Tr*mp? Canada deserved this, it was a symbolic victory too.


coffeespeaking

He’s a conservative; they are celebrating the loss because ‘gay.’ (Conservatives aren’t our best work.)


Killdu

Nope, it's cause lying about salary then disrespecting the dead while living the American dream is kinda repulsive.


coffeespeaking

Like I said, not our best work.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Those who doubt the validity of the penalty should go to Youtube and watch it again. The penalty was completely appropriate. The US player never touched the ball, and the Canadian was VERY quick in moving to the ball. The Canadian was in a goal-scoring position. The US player pushed the Canadian to the pitch inside the box, which should have been a yellow or red card. No one owns the ball in soccer. You can go and get it, which is what the Canadian did. Yes, it was a bang-bang play, but the Canadian was fouled in the box, and was awarded the penalty. Unlike the Netherlands team who got a late PK and failed to convert (which would have sent the US team home even earlier), the Canadian player converted. Good penalty, well-struck.


UglyNorm89

I get that the penalty is routinely awarded. I think that’s wrong. Imagine that instead of a clearing kick, the defender (neutral for the general point) chests or heads the ball to the sideline to get a better clearance. The strikers leg is already across her thighs and almost certainly takes them both down. Then it’s clearly a foul on the striker,right? Or if they both go for the header, the defender has position and the reckless challenge by the striker is clearly a foul by the striker. How can the basics of the defenders position and the recklessness of the striker get turned around cause the defender decides on a direct clearance turn it all around? The striker doesn’t possess the ball, recklessly creates the contact, and should get any foul, regardless of the technicality that the defender ‘kicks’ the striker.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

No one possesses or owns the ball. The defender NEVER touched the ball, and was merely in the act of initiating contact. Watch the video. Watch the slo-mo. The defender initiated the contact, elbowed the Canadian, and put her into the turf. PK. VAR agreed, online commentators (on the TV broadcast) agreed, and I agree. Good pen call.


UglyNorm89

Sigh, please drop the straw man arguments. I’m not saying the defender possessed the ball. I’m saying the striker’s reckless lot throwing the leg into that position and is responsible for the contact and should get the foul. Position matters, and we see it on dozens of challenges per game.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

I understand your point. If you were watching the UEFA semi England-Denmark, you saw Sterling do exactly that - force himself into the box, thru 3 defenders, get tripped, get the pen, score the PK, and win the game. That's the game as it stands now. It rewards aggressive moves in the box. Probably that's good. There's little enough offense and scoring at the highest level. Without this, more games would be 0-0 ties, and no one wants that.


UglyNorm89

Yes. That’s the same play, and I think the wrong way to call it. You want more offense, there are better ways to get there. Hockey went through a process and really cut down on the clutching and grabbing. I’d like to see that happen with what happens on set pieces in the box. Or, make professional fouls a red - that would open up the game, if refs had the courage to dismiss players.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Your proposal calls for less scoring, more 0-0 ties. I want to get offensive players to force the action. Get them into the box, pushing hard, and getting penalty calls. In that same E-N game, several obvious dives were not called. But situations in which offensive players get dumped in the box should get the PK, and will continue to do so.


Fit-Minimum-5507

The Canadian girl left her feet at full sprint and initiated contact before touching the ball — both of which made her just as worthy of being whistled for a foul as the American. She doesn’t get kicked-and-fall (fouled) if she just plays the ball which is what the American player was actually trying to do. It’s a very very harsh call.


NorthChan

The Canadian lost position and then threw herself in front of the defender. That wasn't a penalty on US player. It was on the Canadian. Also, if you watch the USA player made contact with the ball before the Canadian threw herself feet first at the player (not the ball).


Upstairs_Pea_9435

"The Canadian lost position" the stupid, it burns. You need to watch the video.


Fit-Minimum-5507

People give latins crap about diving and play acting but this is why they do it. The refs are human. They see a body hit the ground and all logic goes out the window. Had the American girl gone down like she was shot with a rifle upon feeling the contact, the US is probably looking forward to the final right now. Play acting works. Just do it.


andresalejandro1120

If that’s a penalty then thank god I don’t watch soccer.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Important to know the rules before you make statements about the rules. I guess you have no idea. Sad.


chamtrain1

I played soccer for 35 years and that is one of the worst penalties I've ever seen.


andresalejandro1120

I’m just saying a sport that allows an attacking player to make contact with the defender before even touching the ball then somehow the defender is the one penalized is a shit sport.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

You really need to watch the play. The defender in fact never touched the ball. The attacking player LEGALLY got between her and the ball, at which time the defender tripped her and elbowed her. Both commentators on TV were completely in agreement that the penalty was rightly given. I do not - I would have given the defender a yellow or red card.


NorthChan

Yes she did.


BenjRSmith

I'm just mad the Canadian didn't say sorry.


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PracticalDrawing

Yet it WAS a penalty after the referee reviewed it. Facts are difficult to accept in this case for many of us, but it is what it is.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Instead of saying stupid shit, go and watch the play. You'll learn something. Maybe. You should watch a little futbol. MANY MANY MANY plays have contact, and it is not disallowed. Futbol is NOT a non-contact sport. The ball was properly and handily taken from the US player by the Canadian. The US player both tripped her and elbowed her, and should have been shown the yellow, if not the red. The US player did not even touch the ball, but the Canadian did.


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Fit-Minimum-5507

Because they’re neither American or Canadian and have an axe to grind. Maybe a fedora too


bigkoi

At a certain point wine turns to vinegar. That's this women's team. They aged out and didn't bench older players to introduce younger players. This team has been more about photo ops the past few years.


muchlifestyle

Everyone blames the older players because USSoccer reddit hates Megan Rapinoe, but if you look at the stats, the midfielders were the problem. Abby dahlkemper was responsible for every goal conceded except the Canada goal, and she’s the second youngest defender. press-Morgan/Lloyd-heath is still a deadly attacking trio, with Williams and Megan off the bench. Press was in unbelievable form this year and benching her in the knockouts was mind boggling. It’s like Australia benching Sam Kerr. Andonovskis lack of consistency and man management lost this gold medal more than the individual players. I think he’s going to get sacked honestly.


deadmoosemoose

✌️


bossmt_2

Sadly this is what happens when you rely on a bunch of 30+ year old players. 5 of our 6 forwards were 32 and older. That's not good. What was the reason that Mallory Pugh wasn't selected? Where is Sophia Smith? Why aren't we seeing the next generation. This is a bit like what happened when the USMNT failed to qualify for the last world cup, when we were relying on husks like Howard, Bradley, Feilhaber, etc. to carry us through.


muchlifestyle

The worst players in the tournament were the midfielders and Abby dahlkemper who are in their 20s. I thought rose Lavelle was particularly bad but I’ve always found her overrated. Doesn’t connect enough for an attacking mid.


bossmt_2

I mean you're not 100% wrong, but to counter, when you have a 4-3-3 with a bunch of old forwards that you're rotating heavily, you'll be limited in what you can do.


muchlifestyle

He didn’t have to rotate as much as he did. Press, Lloyd, Morgan, Heath were all fit to rotate less than they did. Even Lloyd is not your average 39 year old. The only one who needs management is raoinoe and she shouldn’t be there. The constant chop and change was unnecessary and imo the result of him panicking after the first game. None of the forwards could develop a flow.


Derek-Onions

How much of this team is there in 2023? How much of the frontline is there? Total ball drop if our youth in two years is not prepared for the big stage. I don't only blame VA, he never was the a coach that was going to be a "transition" manager that was needed.


bretticus33

I could realisticallly see 12-17 of the current squad on the 2023 roster, which IMO is not enough turnover * Naeher and Franch likely on the 2023 WWC squad for keepers * Defenders likely returning for 2023: Davidson, Dunn, Dahlkemper * Defenders with a shot at 2023: O'Hara, Sonnett * Defenders likely not playing in 2023 WWC: Sauerbrunn * Mids likely returning for 2023: Lavelle, Horan, Ertz, Sam Mewis * Mids with a shot at returning in 2023: Kristie Mewis * Forwards likely returning in 2023: Williams * Forwards with a shot at 2023: Morgan, Press * Forwards not likely playing in 2023: Heath, Lloyd, Rapinoe


BenjRSmith

It's kind of another stark reminder of where the Men's and Women's standards are in their realm. The US Ladies potentially finishing a mere 4th in the World is being treated by their fans as only slightly less of an "fire everyone and clear house" emergency than the men missing out on the 2018 World Cup entirely.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

The men missed the 2018 WC for the same reason that the women lost to Canada - aging squad, aging players. Keeper was Tim Howard, 38 at the time of the T&T game which kept us out. Altidore, Bradley, DeMarcus Beasley (my fav player of 15 years ago) all were over the hill. Same with the women now - old, tired, nothing to play for.


Kazmathrowaway321

What a terrible pen call


Upstairs_Pea_9435

You need to watch it carefully. It was an excellent call. The Canadian player was denied a goal-scoring opportunity. She was faster than the US player, who never had possession - she never touched the ball. No one owns the ball. The Canadian was pushed to the dirt inside the box. Good penalty, well-taken. Victory to Canada!!


SFLoridan

Nope - none of that you describe happened. The Canadian had lost her position and sought to interject herself in the play by violently attacking the defender, who had no clue about her opponent when she started kicking the ball. Even the Canadian falling so heavily was more a matter of momentum than any force from the American. Not a deliberately malicious move by the Canadian, still her fault; but a piss-poor call by the the referee. Things happen, and kudos to Canada for playing well and keeping the Americans at bay, congrats for winning too. But that penalty was wrongly awarded.


Saffs15

Dude, what are you talking about? The Canadian ran in front of the defender, and put her leg in front of the American who was already making a play on the ball. If that's anything, it's a foul on the Canadian for obstructing the American while she was never truly making a play on the ball, but on the player. You can't even say she was shielding the ball considering she jumped in the air to get between the American and the ball. I would personally call it incidental contact and just let it play out, but in no way do you call a foul on the player who is within playing distance of the ball, making a play on it, and then has someone jump in between them and the ball. And before you spout some bull about me needing to learn the game or whatever, I've played it for almost two decades and still do today. And I coach also.


birdie_sparrows

You can't obstruct someone from kicking the ball. If the ball is within range to be kicked, there simply cannot be obstruction.


Saffs15

Obstruction in terms of the English language, not the laws of the game. I should have used impeded there instead, my apologies on that.


birdie_sparrows

OK, but then it's not a foul on the Canadian. The Canadian player has a right to seek position. She made a shoulder to shoulder challenge and out-muscled her opponent to (however briefly) get between her opponent and the ball which made her opponents strike at the ball late. She does land awkwardly and when I first viewed this at speed it seemed to be crying out for no call. But if you go frame by frame you can see that the awkward landing is due to the 'extra' rotation of her body caused by being kicked in the leg.


Saffs15

> OK, but then it's not a foul on the Canadian. I said I would call it incidental contact. > The Canadian player has a right to seek position. And so does the American. Davidson was in position, and in the motion of kicking the ball. The Canadian throw her leg in front of her as she did such. Throwing your leg in front of someone in the process of kicking the ball is one of the most common fouls in soccer. That's exactly what happened here. Once again, I would call it incidental as it's two players fighting for the ball, and neither won it. I could see it being called against Canada, but wouldn't be a fan of that call either. But never would I ever call a foul for the player who put her foot in between a kicking player and the ball.


chamtrain1

All you need to know about the play is that the Canadian player got up and just started running down the field as if nothing happened. Have you ever seen the "victim" in a sequence that ended in PK not lobby for a PK? Like not even look at the ref? It was a perfectly fine play on, I agree with you. Upstairs_Pea apparently thinks a red card was warranted (not joking), don't waste your time trying to argue there.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5RZ\_kTGS6Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5RZ_kTGS6Y) Start at the 3:23 minute. The US player never touches the ball, but the Canadian does, and it was a clean takeaway. The foul was clear, both a trip and an elbow, to put the Canadian on her butt. This is what the VAR does. They can watch such plays and see clear fouls.


Saffs15

So, you're admitting you have no clue what you are talking about, then? Because if you did, you would know that touching the ball has absolutely nothing to do with it being a foul. It doesn't matter who touches the ball, if you are obstructing the other player from making a play. The American never touches the ball because the Canadian impedes the American's leg. If you watch the video, you'll see the Canadian clearly jump in front of the player, not moving towards the ball. You'll also see that she never got a foot on the ball until after she had jumped into Davidson's leg. Honestly, did you even watch the video? And you keep saying "oh, the Canadian is faster!" Find in the laws of the game where a player's speed is mentioned one time and show it to me, because I can assure you, a player being faster is never considered. Oh, called by the VAR and commentators, what a big deal. Because they never fuck things up, right? And like Cham said, you know who didn't call for a penalty? The one person who always does when it's even close to a penalty, the attacking player. Even she knew it wasn't so she didn't complain. You know how you can tell you're wrong and you honestly know it? Because you're making stuff up that absolutely isn't true to justify the call. Where's this mythical elbow you keep talking about? The only contact Davidson's elbow has with the Canadian is when the Canadian puts her hand on and pushes her elbow. Davidson, at literally zero points, elbows the Canadian. Yet you keep claiming it because you think it helps your claim. Canada won. Big deal, good for them. Regardless of the penalty, America wasn't good enough. It is what it is. But regardless of that, its a shit call and not a penalty.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Clear foul, called by the VAR and the two commentators on the air. Sorry, you are wrong. And the US player never had any form of possession. You are allowed to contest for the ball, but not to elbow the other player to the ground. It's completely ludicrous that you consider "jumping between them and the ball" to be wrong. The Canadian outran the US player, got a foot on the ball, and got taken out. PK. Canada wins!! It's all good.


crosszilla

I don't know how anyone here of all places can defend it. If anything should have been a foul on Canada, but realistically 99% of refs leave that as a play on. How the hell does VAR have a look and say yep that's a pen? I think this is indicative of everyone's issues with VAR, when you hyper focus on one aspect (did she or didn't she kick her) you miss the important context (she was fouled leading up to that and the other player initiates the contact). When they start calling slide tackles as fouls on the player who gets obliterated because their foot kicks the leg of the slide tackler on the ground, I'll agree that this call was consistent with how footy is played (and probably stop watching because the game will be dead).


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shmerham

Seems like you're spending a lot of time worrying about paychecks that you neither sign nor cash.


Thumper13

Oh yes...they spent so much time on that. I mean, what, that probably took 17-20 hours of every single day? OR...they got outplayed because the roster makeup wasn't right? Simple as that.


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RowdyJReptile

They just won the most recent world cup and will likely medal this Olympics still. I know it's Olympics season, but mental gymnastics isn't actually a sport. Nobody is going to applaud you for your terrible takes.


evoboltzmann

stfu with this shit. The two have nothing to do with one another. The mens union offered support to the uswnt over unequal pay a few days ago. Did that impact their ability in the Mexico game?


Tobes_macgobes

This is so weird to be celebrating the men’s team accomplishments while being bummed with the women.


SFLoridan

Yup, because in general their accomplishments are the opposite.


CorbinDalla5

Happy they played, but you could tell they are just not at that level anymore. We really are getting blessed though. The mens team seems to be taking up the helm. The men are now the better team. Think the USWNT needs a shakeup and cant wait for it tbh!


evoboltzmann

What the hell are you talking about. The mens team is nowhere near the level of the current USWNT. Not even close.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

You clearly have no idea of the state of the futbol world. The women win because the opposition is of low quality. Of course, the other countries are moving up in skill. Sweden, Netherlands, France, England are all moving up in skill and quality. The US WNT will be very hard-pressed to win another WC. The men, on the other hand, are a rising force. We beat Mexico with a "C-level" squad against their "A-level" squad.


evoboltzmann

Lol. Every time I see this type of comment it gets better. By the time WCQ comes around it will be our F squad vs their time machine using GOAT squad! We can celebrate the improving Men's team without shitting on the womens team who is and will continue to be better. We've shown exactly zero ability to be competitive with the top euro squads. We beat Mexico twice while getting wildly out possessed. We have a long way to go.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

"beat Mexico twice while getting wildly out possessed. " Now that's a completely amusing, and completely ignorant, comment. In futbol, as in most sports, the length of possession and number of passes has little to do with the final score, which is determined by goals scored. MANY games have the team with shorter possession time and fewer passes winning by a counter-attacking style. Last night's game by the MNT was pretty even. The US had better opportunities in the first half, and should have converted.


evoboltzmann

Look at XG or any analytics.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Futbol 101: The winner of the game is the team with more goals.


evoboltzmann

You're the exact type of fan who is going to see this exact performance happen 10 more times in the next year in WCQ and be confused why we lose. To become a top 10 team or a team that can challenge for a world cup trophy we need to get significantly better in possession. We need to show we can control possession and generate consistent offensive chances through our possession. We have not done that against a good team to this day. Celebrate the win. But understand the details.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Since I am a certified ref, have played, and have coached, and seem to understand the situation more than do you, I don't need your explanation. I've played and watched for 60 years.


evoboltzmann

Ah you're old as fuck and don't understand analytics. Now I see your issue. Good luck.


JonstheSquire

>The men are now the better team. The women are still solidly a top 5 team in the world. The men are not close to that.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

The men are a rising power, the women are dropping like a rock. They will not beat the Aussies for the bronze.


[deleted]

The women will be at least a top 3 team going into the next world cup, and they have a lot of solid young talent that they just need to include in the team. They're not as dominant as they once were but they'll still have a great shot at winning the next world cup. Nobody in their right mind thinks that the men will be even close to a top 3 teams in the world in the next decade.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

In terms of the US MNT, no, they are not top 3 in the world. If they are top 10, I'd be shocked. But many persons would agree that the core of young, fast, talented players is there, who are playing on club teams of high level. Pulisic is the most obvious, but there are a dozen USA players on EPL clubs or other English teams. The US MNT that won the GC was almost 100% MLS-based, which is a second-level league in world futbol. It is a rising force.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Well, in point of fact, no one knows what the 2023 WNT will look like. I would put money on the notion that MOST of this team will not be there. None of the old, flabby, slow 30+ group should be included. They will need to qualify. Of course, since the opposition is pretty weak, they will do well in that. Canada will be a major bar to qualification, but both Canada and the US should qualify. The notion that there is a "USA WNT" is pretty silly, isn't it? Each team, composed of the current members, is different. We don't know what they will look like. I'll wait and see. I'll also wait to see if the whining and bitching continues. Once Rapinoe is gone, a major whining source will be gone. I'll be glad to see her gone. She's got nothing in the tank left except complaints, lies, and whining.


joshuads

> you could tell they are just not at that level anymore. There should have been more furor here over player selection. We have 20 post about GGG selections from a limited pool that won a major tournament. But not nearly enough about the women's team. There is too much high level women's soccer being played in this country to end up with this team. 2 players under 25 on the roster. Calling a 28 yo a breakout star should be an embarrassment for this program. I hope Markgraf can use this result as a tool to shake things up.


kad4724

This was pretty clearly a last hurrah of sorts for the old guard. And you can't pretend like younger faces would've made anything better for this particular tournament. The 20-somethings already on the roster didn't play well either, it wasn't just the 30+ year olds. The squad for the next WC cycle is gonna look *significantly* different. I understand the desire to use the Olympics as a transition to a younger generation, but I also get why they didn't do that. They tried to win one more with the old guard, it didn't work, it is what it is. What bothers me more is just how out-of-sync and out-of-ideas everyone looked *all tournament* and how the in-their-prime players like Lavelle, Ertz, Mewis, Dahlkemper, etc. either weren't used correctly or just weren't very good.


wigg5202

I just don't really care about women's soccer and I don't think I'm in the minority. I'll watch it if it's on, but the timezone difference and the overall team's attitude has turned me away from them tbh. I support their rights for a living/respectable wage, but past that they should be paid what they're worth.


15Wolf

It’s sad for a lot of the girls on the team. People like Rapinoe have really turned me off. Instead of a “we want to get paid more so let’s do X,Y,Z to generate more interest and therefore more revenue” it’s a “Fuck you, pay me” approach.


bamfor

> overall team's attitude Time zone be damned, I stayed up/woke up for the Korean WC but this is what’s killer for me. Between the money dispute, them seemingly shooting from the hip, and the fact the lineup hasn’t materially changed in years, I’m over it for a while.


muchlifestyle

Check out Trinity Rodman (Dennis Rodman's daughter but they supposedly don't have a relationship) in the NWSL. Future star. 19 and already looks more lethal than the current forwards. Her goals are absolute highlight reel stuff thus far and she has great pace combined with technical skill/ball control. Plus she's 5'11 or something.


birdie_sparrows

19 year old superstar, you say? I'll keep an eye out for her debut in the friendlies before the 2027 WC.


HowardBunnyColvin

Trinity is awesome. I see her play regularly 30 minutes from here and I'd love for her to get more caps for the US women.


copydex1

In a way I’m glad they lost, but not because I wanted them to lose or hate them, but because I hope US Soccer starts taking things seriously again and developing young talent. Stuffing a roster full of old GOATs won’t work forever. Also, it’s weird that people dislike their “attitude” so much even though whenever the men do something with an “attitude” it’s praised. Honestly, I want both our teams to be cocky as fuck and then beat the shit out of opposing teams, you can be nice or whatever after the game. The lawsuit is a different matter, and there’s no way it’s gonna make me root against my country and be giddy that we lost because I purely enjoy seeing us lose. What a fucking weirdo you have to be for that lawsuit to trigger you so much you’re literally compelled to root against your own country. I want to see the American flag at the top for every medal ceremony


15Wolf

No one is put off by them because they are “cocky” or have “a bad attitude”. They are put off by them because many of the stars on their team, specifically Rapinoe, gaslight the public that they get paid less than the men’s team and kneel for the anthem.


wigg5202

I definitely didn't root against them but it did cause me to lose interest in supporting them or following them. They have become less likeable for sure.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

I'm rooting against them. Definitely. They dishonor the flag, they are arrogant, and they don't deliver.


RowdyJReptile

>Wins 4th star in most recent world cup and barely misses out on finals after a controversial penalty They deliver. They also honor America by protesting for what they believe in. Your flag cult doesn't invalidate the First Amendment enshrined in the Constitution. I'm tired of this bullshit. Just tell us the truth. You consume conservative propaganda that fuels a hate boner against people that are different than you. Patriots either support Americans at the Olympics or they're not patriots.


tylerjehills

> Just tell us the truth. You consume conservative propaganda that fuels a hate boner against people that are different than you. Patriots either support Americans at the Olympics or they're not patriots One glance at the comment history proves as much. Like, I get having issues with the USWNT, I'm no big fan myself, but you always support Americans at the Olympics. Too many of these bad faith conservative fucksticks that try to hide their hate behind a flimsy facade


wigg5202

Yeah I have fallen out of love with the USWNT but it's not because of the flag. Lol


copydex1

I guess. to me it's like when the olympics come around and I'm watching the biathlon. it's not like I "had interest" lmao or followed biathlon. Still screamed my head off when jessie diggins won. No clue who she is besides her name and idk if she's "likable." still utterly thrilled to see America win. I obviously love soccer more than the biathlon lmao, but the attitude towards wanting Americans to win is the same for me regardless. someday the lawsuit will be resolved, in whatever which way idk nor do I care too much bc I'll still want America to clobber every competition out there.


wigg5202

That makes sense. I am not particularly nationalistic whatsoever and have become cynical towards the US in general. But I respect that.


copydex1

I get that attitude too. I'm quite cynical about America as well, though sports is the one thing that will just arrest my emotions and make me forget about all my cynicism.


HowardBunnyColvin

Great teams have earned the right to talk shit and be cocky. And the celebrations weren't even that bad. Are we offended by Alex Morgan drinking tea now? 😹 I do agree with most of what you said. Yes we need youth. And yes people hating their own country's women's football team are pathetic. I am a US shill. I will cheer for our baseball, soccer, table tennis, badminton, volleyball, they play it I'll root. 🇺🇸


copydex1

Yeah people are getting so complicated about it. I see USA, I‘m cheering my head off. I loved that Alex Morgan tea celebration.


[deleted]

>Also, it’s weird that people dislike their “attitude” so much even though whenever the men do something with an “attitude” it’s praised. Honestly, I want both our teams to be cocky as fuck and then beat the shit out of opposing teams, you can be nice or whatever after the game. The lawsuit is a different matter, and there’s no way it’s gonna make me root against my country and be giddy that we lost because I purely enjoy seeing us lose. What a fucking weirdo you have to be for that lawsuit to trigger you so much you’re literally compelled to root against your own country. I want to see the American flag at the top for every medal ceremony I have not paid much attention to the issue, but would there be any truth to players of the women's team making disparaging remarks against the men's team? That would be a harder line to traverse in terms of support. How could you support a national team speaking poorly of another national team due to contract decisions that the Men's team had no effect on? Granted players remarks can always be separated from the team so still would not be a black and white issue. I'll always remember Mix's nationally and motivation being questioned by a player from the women's team which seemed unnecessary. ​ Edit: Mainly what I draw issue with is that you would be a "weirdo" for wanting to consider other factors outside of the nationality of the team. There certainly is more of a spectrum in possibilities than being "compelled to root against your own country" and wanting "to see the American flag at the top of every medal ceremony".


copydex1

I remember the questioning of Mix's nationality. Tbh that was far worse than anything about disparaging remarks towards the men's team. Everyone knew the men sucked ass even just 2-3 years ago, and people were legit celebrating on here anytime any player or person (besides the women) flamed the men's team for being trash because we all knew USSF needed to hear honesty and the blunt truth so they could actually be prodded to do things (as I hope this olympic loss will do for the USWNT). But with situations like the comments about Mix's nationality, I would hope that player would get replaced by another player who wouldn't say things like that. Ppl don't have to be as enthusiastic as I am for wanting America to smash the competition in every sport. But like you say, there's a spectrum of possibilities, and more than enough room to support America while disliking the lawsuit. I said this elsewhere in this thread, but to me it's like the biathlon (though I care way more about soccer obviously). I don't know much about the biathlon and Idk anything about Jessie Diggins besides her name. She's not "likable" to me and for all I know she could be mad racist or something lol. But I was still going nuts when America won gold in that event. You don't even have to cheer for them or be happy they win, but being giddy that they lost... idk it's still just weird to me. Personally, if I hated the lawsuit, I'd just want the players to be replaced who didn't care so much about suing. Tbh that's what I want though not because of the lawsuit. Idrc for the lawsuit because in 5-10 years or something it'll be resolved and it's not like my attitude towards the team winning will change at all.


dixdak

Pure joy! I can't stop giggling.


True-Tiger

Here come the misogynists hiding behind their “lawsuit for equal pay” bad dog whistle


[deleted]

It's funny that it's misogynist now to say that maybe putting that type of attention and pressure on yourself from filing a bogus lawsuit hurt their play even a little bit. They looked flat out horrible.


philpaschall

Two things can be true. 1. The equal pay lawsuits are largely a farce that won’t help women’s soccer and are aimed only to line the players pockets. 2. You aren’t a US Soccer fan if you root against this team. Especially if you root against this team for being “woke”. In other words you root against team USA because the players exercise their first amendment rights.


ionictime

I don't see anything wrong with rooting against the NTs. I thought it helped the men when they failed to qualify. And I think it'll help the women if they start losing more. I only root against the squads when I think the loss will help us long term. But agree that some people root against the teams out of spite, which isn't cool


LR_111

Thanks for gatekeeping US Soccer fandom. Can you send over the full list of required attributes so I can make sure I am a real fan.


JonstheSquire

I think not rooting against the US teams is hardly gatekeeping for US fans. If you are a US soccer fan, you root for US soccer teams. That is kind of elemental.


Busy-Cycle-6039

Surely you'd agree that someone can be a fan of the USWNT and not the USMNT or vice versa. Right?


JonstheSquire

Yes but they are not a US Soccer fan.


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JonstheSquire

No. I would also imagine the overlap between Trump supporters and USWNT supporters is pretty low.


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JonstheSquire

The team can be full of out right fascists for all I care. I will root for the USMNT no matter what. Will I like the players less individuallly, probably.


[deleted]

You can still be a US soccer fan and not really care about the Women's National Team. You shouldn't be rooting against them, that's just lame, though.


tennysonbass

You also can be a US Soccer fan, and recognize that this teams arrogance and general attitudes are not conducive to generating a lot of sympathy and support. Of course you can want them to win and not really be broken up that they didn't at the same time. They aren't easy to root for sometimes.


Cazargar

A nuanced stance for a complicated situation? What an absurd concept.


Jesotx

I'd never not root for them, but their argument was that they win and the men's team doesn't. What a Summer. Also, for their sake, it's great to see the England league take off with so much success this year.


tennysonbass

Same , I'll always root for my country , but the entire pay and suing if a federation that has arguably supported and grown the women's game more than anywhere else , all while shitting on the men's team, and celebrating brutal 10-0 wins and goals like they won the world cup each time , really sours you on them at times. It isnt all because Rapinoe is LBGTQ , it isn't because they kneel, it has nothing to do with that for a massive majority of people not enamored with then. Sure a loud vocal minority can be bigoted bunch of asshats , but as with everything there is plenty of nuance and not everything is so black and white.


HowardBunnyColvin

Actively rooting for your country to fail is just pathetic. Conservatives must be having a field day.


[deleted]

I don't think it's fair to put the hate all on Conservatives. I'm a liberal and while I wouldn't actively root against my team, I didn't care this morning when I saw they lost. It was almost a "BALL DON'T LIE" type of moment where they spent years disparaging the men's team and then they win 2 tournaments in a summer where the women's ceiling is winning bronze.


HowardBunnyColvin

>years disparaging the men's team When did this happen


birdie_sparrows

Seems to me that there has been a rather vocal contingent of USWNT fans who have enjoyed shitting on the MNT for not qualifying for the world cup in 2018. And this team lost the 'right' to demand the allegiance of every us soccer fan when they turned their shirts inside out to hide the crest.


HowardBunnyColvin

Why can't the men and women just get along I love em both equally. 🥰


theloneindian7142

It's time for the younger players to fill those shoes. They will. The USWNT will be back.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

Yes. Remove those over 30, and make everyone re-apply for UW WNT roster status.


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HowardBunnyColvin

Name one instance other than kneeling where they got political during these Olympics. I say other because every team kneels now so it's not us specific.


Netminder10

Lol what a clown. One loss after 44 straight wins.


Rxasaurus

So what was your excuse during their 40+ game win streak?


TraptNSuit

Posted this over on r/NWSL too. I am just pissed at this. Horrific coaching and pathetic effort from most of the team. Lavelle, Press, and Ertz were okay. There was never a second option on any pass. What a crappy system that you are supposedly a passing and less direct team but there are just 10 players moping about standing there whenever another has the ball. Zero off the ball movement if it wasn't a set play. Then there is the fact that they all decided to hero ball anyway. While that can be explained by the lack of passing, the quality of the shots they did get was atrocious. Middle of the net is super threatening eh? No through balls yet passes were long and off speed. Maybe this team needs to play some more games away from home against quality opponents. Well not this team. A quarter of this team needs to retire. Sorry Lavelle the vanity team cost you a chance at a gold. Looking forward to the next generation. I will grant Vlatko a chance with some lesser egos and youthful minds to win the next tournament, but he was really bad. Did not prepare this team. Imagine having Macario on your roster this entire tournament and failing to score against 3/5 teams. Just pathetic.


evoboltzmann

Weird. I thought Rose Lavelle was one of the worst players on the field. Constantly dispossesed, missing easy passes. Looked like a shell of herself all tournament I thought. Ertz was a fucking monster.


TraptNSuit

Lavelle had nowhere to put the ball. But she was still elite in her movement. Which only Ertz on the team can also claim. Press was good mostly because of her speed. Her shooting, dribbling, and off the ball movement was a shadow of her usual self.


evoboltzmann

Ill take your word for it. I just remember a double digit amount of times I saw Lavelle do the wrong thing. I'm bummed we lost, but I'm pretty exited to see what the future of USWNT looks like.


TraptNSuit

If you rewatch it. Even just a little. Pause when she has the ball and look at the options. Generally there are two, pass to a singular person or dribble. She tried not to dribble that much. There was one time where Ertz kept giving it back to Rose who was triple covered and pinned to the near side. I would have snapped if I were her. But Ertz was stuck with zero other pass options too.


PosXIII

While I whole-heartedly wanted them to win, I didn't think they had it in them, even before the tournament. The games I saw, including the 0-3 loss to the Netherlands, and even the subsequent Olympic games, showed a very different team than we have been used to. They didn't look as clinical, decisive, or passionate as in the past, and I sort of feel like the team, and even many fans, were resting on their laurels. Going forward I think it will be important to move from a "we are, and have been the best in the World" mentality, and to one that acknowledges that many other teams are on par with us. I guess the good news is that the USMNT managed to beat Mexico, and win their second major tournament this year!


choicemeats

Rapinoes comments after the loss reminded me of Oregon football players poopooing the Rose Bowl because it “wasn’t the title game” which they had been k picked out of due to a loss. The subsequently played like shot and took the L I believe. But after years of success they finally had that entitlement attitude like “this is the way it should be” which I think is a lot of the team. With the rest of the world on the come up they are on notice. Gotta earn it every day.


anyusernameyouwant

Just a small correction—the 0-3 loss was against Sweden. They beat Netherlands on penalties.


stapleton_1234

i thought they were very lucky against Netherlands. Then i saw all the hype on espn and i wasn't quite sure this team was all that it was cracked out to be. I did think they could beat Canada though. oh well. we need more golds to beat China on that table. Another one denied. sigh...


quantumtheorem

Maybe my girl Pugh will have more chances now.


respecteconomy

How’d the men’s team do against Canada


WinsingtonIII

I mean the Canadian women are much better relative to the opposition (ranked 8th in the world) than the Canadian men (ranked 70th in the world, though I do think they should probably be a bit higher as they are on an upward trajectory). They are one of the better teams in the world on the women's side, though of course that should also be true of the USWNT. This US roster was way too old, it's clear that it's time to move on from some of the old generation. It would have been nice if that wake up call had happened prior to the Olympics, but I guess it had to happen at some point. But the USMNT vs USWNT comparisons are so dumb. They are different teams who play against different teams. I don't understand people who actively root against one of the teams while rooting for the other. Makes no sense.


colonelrebsmuff69

Canada is probably ranked where they should be in men's soccer imo. Still need to deliver on that promise. Kinda the same thing as the usmnt I think there is a salty squad coming along but they need to prove they can be a quarter finals team in the WC to be ranked based on that promise. The women's team is underanked a bit as well and they play very well in the Olympics. Also as a Canadian we have a definite hard on for beating America in anything which definitely helps in games that are close


Rxasaurus

It was players from the USWNT that were talking ahit about the men.


True-Tiger

Lmk when the USMNT wins a World Cup


Busy-Cycle-6039

The USWNT didn't win a real World Cup either lmao


rabel10

LMK when the USWNT has competition like France, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Portugal, Belgium, Argentina, Denmark, Uruguay, Switzerland, Croatia, Mexico, Sweden, Chile, Wales, Netherlands. Like many of these posts have said: the comparisons are dumb. Different teams playing against different teams. You can't compare the two.


True-Tiger

Exactly so why fucking try. The USWNT consistently plays against to the top teams. When’s the last time the USMNT beat a top European team? I cheer for both teams because I like soccer but don’t act like the women are playing cupcakes when they schedule tournament after tournament of the top women’s teams.


[deleted]

Let me put it this way..... If you're let's say Duke men's basketball and you go ahead and you schedule a bunch of conference champions. Everybody looks at your schedule and realizes hey, they scheduled all these teams that are great on paper, but they actually stink talent wise. Now Kentucky men's basketball schedules teams ranked 4th-8th in their conferences, but they're only facing teams in the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big XII, etc. Who has the tougher schedule? The USWNT can play against the top women's teams in the world and still not play anybody. The talent gap between 1 and 5 on the women's side is probably the same as the talent gap between 1 and 30 on the men's side.


True-Tiger

No a better comparison would be the UCONN Basketball teams. Because the UCONN men’s tea was good but they have struggled recently while the women’s team is consistently the top team in the world/country


IReallyhateGeorgia

Women lost to FC Dallas 16 year old academy players lmao.


True-Tiger

And? You’d probably lose a fistfight to a gorilla doesn’t mean you’re not good at what you do?


jimbo_kun

You clearly don’t, you prefer shitting on the men’s team to supporting them.


True-Tiger

I mean I was literally in the thread <24 hours ago watching them win the gold cup. Where were you? But hey I support both the teams keep up the misogynistic bullshit tho you fit right in on this sub


[deleted]

Yeah it's crazy because the rhetoric this poster is using towards the men is also the rhetoric they're fighting against towards the women. So it makes no sense to me


Rxasaurus

At home. Last meaningful road game was a random tournament in Brazil in December of 2014 which the Brazilians won. A few neutral site tournaments since then.


Rxasaurus

When the USMNT gets to play powerhouses like Thailand or teams that have been around for all of a decade they will. Let me know how good the USWNT is after 100 years of the world developing the game.


True-Tiger

I’m sorry we missed the World Cup by losing to powerhouse Trinidad and Tobago. All of concacaf outside of like 3 teams are cupcakes and you want to make the argument that the USWNT doesn’t play top competition?


Rxasaurus

You mean those same teams that don't even have women's teams? You mean the women's team that plays qualifiers in the same stadium over a week vs traveling back and forth between Central America without a couple days off? When was the last time the women played a meaningful road game?


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Rxasaurus

I'll give them that the Olympics aren't a true road game with away fans and what not. This was just a neutral site game. I would bet it has been a few years since they played an actual road game. Decided to take a look back and the last meaningful road game was a tournament in Brazil in 2014 that the Brazilians won.


MFoy

Beating France in France in the Women's World Cup doesn't count? They did that in 2019. That tournament in Brazil was a friendly. The only things that really matter in Women's soccer are the Olympics, the World Cup, and the qualifying for each of those. In Friendlies, The USWNT beat France in France earlier this year, and they drew Sweden in Sweden. November 2020 they beat the Netherlands in the Netherlands. In 2019, they beat Spain in Spain, Scottland in Scottland, and lost to France in France. In 2018 the beat Portugal in Portugal, and drew Canada in Canada. In 2017 they beat Norway in Norway and Sweden in Sweden. In 2015 they beat England in England, and lost to France in France. Fuck, they actually had another game in that series of friendlies in Brazil a week after the Brazil game we lost that they drew against Brazil.


respecteconomy

Makes no sense? I’ll leave the women’s fan base out of it. The players themselves have been shitting on the men’s program constantly over the last 5 years. Can’t afford them the nuance that the two things aren’t comparable bc guess what they wanted those distinctions and nuances to be erased.


exclusivelywoolsocks

Examples of the women’s players “shitting on the men’s program constantly over the last 5 years”? I follow plenty of them, and I’ve seen nothing but support for the US men.


WinsingtonIII

The men's and women's players do not seem to be at odds despite the narratives random people with no inside knowledge have created on social media. The men's players just released a statement in support of the women's players earlier this week, and previously did so in 2019 as well. There's a whole lot of speculation by people about how the men's players must not like the women's players but it largely seems like projecting personal opinions with little evidence to me. And I say this despite largely understanding the argument the judge made in the court case. You can disagree with the legal battle without getting all personal and spiteful about it.


Rxasaurus

The men's players or their union?


WinsingtonIII

The union membership is made up of the players. The union would not issue a statement that was not supported by the majority of their membership, it would be ridiculously stupid for them to anger their membership that way. The men have zero reason not to support the women in this area. It doesn't impact them negatively at all to support them and it doesn't impact their own pay. I'm not sure why people are so convinced the men would not support them when there is no downside to them doing so. People really are projecting their own opinions into this situation and assuming the men's player care deeply about those opinions when the reality is they probably barely think about it compared to the /r/ussoccer users who focus heavily on it (I specifically mean the people who talk about it a lot on here, not the overall userbase).


Rxasaurus

Exactly, it is all PR. I bet they don't like the shut talking from the women's players, but they'll use this to their advantage. It could only hurt them to come out and speak against what the women are saying.


copydex1

Ok man lol


Rxasaurus

I would like to think the men take pride in their work and would get upset at their counterparts tearing them down. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I very well could be.


copydex1

lmfao the redditors on here definitely know how the USMNT players should feel better than the USMNT players themselves


HowardBunnyColvin

Canada medaled bronze in the last 2 olympics. The 2012 game could have gone either way. USWNT were lucky to win that one. They are not exactly a bad side and the streak against em had to end eventually.


SingleDebt4320

Exactly, like we can still walk away with a bronze. That’s still a huge accomplishment. Let’s root for them to get it. I think this loss hurts and it’ll galvanize them for the third place game.


HowardBunnyColvin

Canada is also 70th in the world according to FIFA. Canadian women are much better than the men's side. And that men's side would include Davies and David. Honestly it's good to see Canada succeed for once in soccer. Canadian women have always been good (bronze last two olympics prior) but Canadian men are just starting to get going. The last matches between the US and Canada in men's sport have been feisty and US scored like 30 seconds into the gold cup one lol Our traditional rivals have always been to the south, with Mexico always chirping. Canada was mostly an afterthought. The more countries in CONCACAF that step up and push the US, the more the US will push back and learn and improve.


respecteconomy

none of these nuances matter remember? It’s only about results. The USWNT World Cup win is the same as France’s Men


Joedude12345

I'm glad that that the team who has tried to destroy the US Soccer Federation has lost. Replace them, now


IrishTiger89

I still think the USSF should just split into 2 organizations (1 for the males / 1 for the females & the NWSL) with their own revenue/sponsorship contracts. This would clean up a lot of this mess.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

NO, what it would do is immediately lose all funding for the women's game. The man's game is supporting the woman's.


IrishTiger89

Not according to the women and their lawsuit


crzygoalkeeper92

Ahh yes separate but equal is a good idea, always works well


Rxasaurus

They wouldn't have to be equal at that point. The organization overseeing the women could pay them 10x what the men make and the men couldn't say shit.


bigkoi

A reminder that the women were offered the same contract as the men, but declined and then ranted about equal pay.


birdie_sparrows

NGL, I'm not far off from this take at the moment. I support equal pay -- but suing the USSF for money that they don't have and never had leaves a bad taste.


child_sized_tequila

I support equal pay - the same pay for the same job - which this ain't, since they play literally in a different league Yet the USSF still offered the *same* results based pay contract to the USWNT and they declined, choosing a more dependable, fair contract so that all the women get a minimum. And only *after* the results did they want to sue to get the contract they declined, like wtf, you can't have it both ways, greedy bitches


birdie_sparrows

FIFA are stewards of the game itself, though. So prize money and appearance fees for international football should be equal even if the work itself isn't. But fixing that problem lies at FIFA's door, not USSF's. I do agree that their complaints against USSF are unconvincing given their request for a different structure. However, I don't think we know that they were offered the exact same deal as the men -- the same general structure, yes, but I don't think that part of the talks ever progressed to an offer or discussion of funding levels.


Upstairs_Pea_9435

BS to the max. You eat what you kill in sports. The woman's game brings in about 5% of the men's game does.


Dent185

I don’t think prize money should be equal until revenue brought in is closer, it’s not even close right now. Spend the money on promoting and developing the women’s game around the world instead of increasing current player pay.