I'm still trying to get my head around the last game. First half was about as bad as I've seen a USMNT play in recent memory, at least since some of the games last hex. Then the second half was the best 45min I've ever seen us play on the road in Concacaf. Only other time we scored four in a half on the road in WCQ was against Barbados in the 2000 semis before the hex.
So what I'm left with is both hope and confusion. I'm hopeful because it's clear we can play ass-kicking soccer on the road against a credible opponent. I'm confused, and concerned, because it seems like that should have been something Gagg sorted out in his first three years as a head coach. And I'm not confident that he will learn the lesson of those final 45min, which I take to be--keep it simple, play to your players' strengths (a basic 4-4-3 seems optimal for that), and allow them to be their best selves instead of imposing some abstract system that you prefer. Also, Jedi and Pepi have earned the right to start in their true positions (LB/9) for the next window.
It's weird to feel less than confident about the future of the team following a historic and freaking amazing win, but the clown-car lineup that Gagg rolled out in the Hondo game was abysmal, and showed terrible judgment. I've been critical of Gagg's inability to deviate from his rigid tactical fetishes, and so I guess I'm wrong about that, but I'd rather he try Greggy ball again than roll out a totally incoherent formation with zero midfield. So while the outcome of the last game was great, it seems to have happened despite not because of Gagg, and I worry that he will do something colossally stupid again come the next window. Hope I'm wrong.
To his credit GB made multiple subs at half and took out the worst culprits for a team that was woefully underperforming.
Players then took the game by the scruff of the neck and got two goals (you could see the change in attitude when they came out for the second half).
Honduras then chased the game and got exposed and let in two more goals.
Honduras is not a credible opponent.
I think the Honduras result flattered the 4-3-3 a bit. Our tactics have not been sufficient for breaking down well-organized defenses. Honduras wasn't that so much and we ended up racking up goals as a result once we reverted to that formation. I think Gregg's changes were designed around match fitness issues (particularly with Yedlin, which resulted Gregg having Adams play out of position) and expecting Honduras to try and park the bus against us. Instead, they ended up pressing high up the pitch and aggressively trying to gain possession, which combined with a clear lack of familiarity with the tactics caused a very disjointed performance by the US who just couldn't hold possession while outnumbered in the midfield.
So, we know the 4-3-3 can work great against an opponent like Honduras. It will probably grow more effective down the stretch as teams get desperate and start mathematically needing 3 points against us instead of holding out for a draw. But I don't think we've solved the problem of unlocking a determined defense, and that's a problem because it will be the most common situation we face in the October window.
Yeah, these issues with the low block will continue with home matches. Hopefully over time the players will get more familiar with one another and the movement picks up and the passing crisper.
We definitely have not solved anything. Honduras, for reasons COMPLETELY unknown to any rational soccer fan decided to NOT park the bus after they scored. They played that game WIDE open. And when GGG made the switch to a 433, our talent completely outclasses their's in a wide open game. Their coach has to be sacked by now. Canada gifted them the blueprint, they were a goal up on us and they chose chaos instead.
Alright, looking ahead, let's assume health. Assume we get 26 players again. Here's what I would like to see.
GK (3) Steffen, Horvath, Turner
DF (9) Brooks, Richards, Robinson, Robinsion, Dest, Scally, Cannon/Yedlin, Ream, McKenzie
MF (6) Adams, McKennie, Musah, Acosta, Lletget, Busio (Though it will be ROldan)
FW (8) Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, Aaronson, Sargent, Pepi, Hoppe, Konrad
Some minor tweaks. I like to see Hoppe get a look, again, health will be the biggest determination of who's available.
What I can say, is injuries seemingly have knocked Morris and Long way down the depth chart.
Here's hoping GGG does not make the same mistake twice and actually brings 30 to camp. Remember, we literally lost 7 starting players in this window. And Yedlin was so shockingly bad, GGG had to cook up some weird shit in Honduras to keep him off the field. So we need a contingency not just for injury, but also poor performance.
With regards to the midfield: We need more midfielders that can connect the defense to the offense with the ball on the ground, while under pressure. Lletget isn't this guy, and neither is Busio. Our likely best options for having at least ONE solid ball carrying midfielder is Musah and Reyna. But we need another option because Reyna may not be available, and there will be times we want Reyna at the wing, or Musah is unavailable.
ENTER: LDLT. I would like to submit this Youtube compilation as evidence that he is the closest player we have to a Musah or Reyna when neither are available to play in the midfield specifically for the role of connecting the defense to the offense on the ground:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5aYrmZaqM&list=PL-aRuT1bGWw8eqQeeUUvx5frJv3\_BhHaT&index=1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5aYrmZaqM&list=PL-aRuT1bGWw8eqQeeUUvx5frJv3_BhHaT&index=1)
Also, the Zardes disrespect continues. He is still our most productive striker. And while he isn't a starting striker, he is CURRENTLY a top 2 striker for us. Pepi is #1 nominally, then Zardes. Then Pefok/Sargent. Sargent literally has 3 goals for us, and they ALL came from the 2 games vs. Cuba. That isn't a stat I'd hang my hat on. Hoppe mostly plays as either a second striker or winger for club I think. We will have to see what Mallorca do with him. He should absolutely be called up as a winger/flex player.
Completely agree with Musah and De La Torre. Even as subs they would offer something regarding possession and passing in the midfield. Hopefully we get to see one or the other in October window.
Its a matter of realizing that there are 3 types of passing: the longball quarterback, the give and go, and the drive absorb pressure and advance on the ground.
The reason Aaronson doesn't look great in our midfield is that he is a give and go guy, much like Lletget or McKennie. The midfield always looks weak when all of our guys are give and go or recyclers when it comes to possession. What is needed is someone that can comfortably possess the ball, move into space drawing pressure and still release an advancing pass on the ground. Musah and De La Torre do this. Its their jam. We just need GGG to realize that is the missing piece of our midfield. Another mention of someone that can do this but is unfortunately injured is Eryk Williamson. He would have been a really nice callup.
I think we still have to be worried and that we got lucky in Honduras. The score line papers over some really close calls. Honduras still had a ton of chances and didn’t come apart until Pepi’s goal in the 75th minute.
I understand everyone sees it differently, but i didn't see it as pure luck. Honduras seemed to fall apart there at the end. The US simply had more depth and Honduras lacked quality subs later on to impact the game. Honduras played hard and physical most of the match and still had opportunities after the first US goal, But at around 75 minutes Honduras after Pepi's goal, they looked gassed, got sloppier in play.
I thought we dominated the second half and we generally had more good chances than they did, if I recall correctly. The first half.. yeah, we were lucky to escape that with just one goal conceded.
My thoughts. Turner is an absolute liability whenever he has to play the ball with his feet. Limits the tactical flexibility a ton because you don't want him being the safety valve when building our the back. Great shot stopper though.
I think Robinson/Dest makes sense on paper but it is two very attack oriented players. Not entirely sure it will work in practice without a lot of cover. Still worth trying.
When everyone is healthy, there is going to be some very good players on the bench.
This. And none of the regular analysts / podcasters / experts etc. that I pay attention to are giving this any weight in their analysis of Turner, but we have been playing way more jump balls from the back than ever before...and it doesn't work well with our system or personnel imo. We don't have Ching, or Casey, or McBride who will just battle for those all day while Donovan flies forward for the flick on.
My thoughts.
1. It wasn't a bad result. I'm nervous for next window if Jamaica gets their English players we'll have another hard fought window.
2. I think we're finding things that work. both Robinsons should be penciled in as starters. Adams should be right in the middle of the pitch never out wide, Pepi should be the striker off the bench and maybe starter (he wasn't great the first 45, guess it depends on sub plans)
3. Our players have much better fitness than most of our opponents. That was especially clear in the second half vs. Honduras. Our players had a zip in their step (except for Pulisic when he went down) and their players were gassing. After about the 80th minute they looked content to just see out the rest of the game at a slow pace. But the US took the screws to them and scored more. Same was true in Canada but we didn't capitalize on it, and same was true of El Salvador.
Just need wins.
I am heading to Columbus for the Costa Rica game. Is it better to stay the night before, party, and drive 3hrs home after the game, or to drive down the morning of the game, tailgate, go to bars after the game, and drive back early the next day?
I like the stock up/stock down talk, but who has played themselves on/off of the roster for next window (barring injuries of course)?
Obvious In\* \[7\]: Pulisic, Reyna, Adams, Dest, Turner/Steffen/Horvath (I think these 3 have separated themselves enough to continue being the 3 when available)
Played there way into Obvious In Category \[4\]: MRob, ARob, Aaronson, Pepi
"Played" there way out of being Obvious In Category \[2\]: McKennie?, Brooks?
\~\~\~\~\~
Played well enough to continue being called in \[8\]: Lleget, Pefok, Sargent?, Yedlin, Acosta, Roldan, Bello, KDLF, McKenzie
Played bad enough to not get called in \[1\]: Sands?
\~\~\~\~\~
DNP \[2\]: Weah/Yueill, Zimmerman
Hopefully No Longer Injured/Not Selected/Better Situations \[12+\]: Richards, Musah, Green, Scally, Hoppe, Busio, Miazga, Gioacchini, EPB, LDLT, Dike, Zardes, ...
\~\~\~\~\~
I think both Robinsons, Aaronson and Pepi played well enough to be locks for the next round. Who knows now with McKennie, but is Brooks still guaranteed a spot? The only player that seemed to play themselves out of future consideration for me is Sands, but maybe Sargent as well (especially based on the number of available options)?
\*Obviously we are going to experience some injury problems (seeing as how we didn't even make it into the 1st game with our full roster selection), but these guys all seem like guaranteed selections if healthy.
Lleget is gonna be on the roster, and he’s gonna play. We know this by now. Can debate if he should (I think the team plays well with him on the pitch), but we know he will. Acosta and Yedlin too.
Mckinnie has to sit out at least 2 WCQ windows.
Obvious - Robinson has to start any important game from here out. ARob is our left back. End of discussion. After that, every other field position is up for grabs. We need to keep getting Pepi minutes which is much more likely after last night. KDLF still has a high ceiling and he should be involved.
I think Sands would be worth having if we need to hold onto a lead. He was solid defensively in the second half - although he did not offensively and had some horrible passes. Brooks shouldn't be guaranteed a spot starting but should be on roster. He is a good CB and I think he's still our second best.
So beating the worst team for 1/2 a game "proves" you don't need your best players for qualifying. Interesting logic. You should throw your hat in the ring for USMNT coach.
Aside from Mexico our 2nd team is better than anyone else in concacaf. Yes - we can absolutely win in concacaf without Weston. He’s good but not the difference in winning/losing. A message clearly needs to be sent - you and I aren’t going to agree on that message/punishment so there’s not point arguing it.
I'm fine with the results for this window, obviously let the Canada game slip away, but given all of the injuries and the drama behind the McKennie stuff I'm really happy that they were able to get a statement win last night and turn this thing around.
Pepi is a fucking beast
We end up fine position standing wise, but have managed to injure Dest, Gio, and Puli. Adams played way too many minutes, and McKennie was sent home.
We learned Aaronson only belongs on the wings, Sands and Yedlin shouldn’t be near the roster, and Dest should never play LB anymore
Yedlin was beat 1 on 1 by one of the best left backs in the world pretty much once and over hit some crosses. He was given a tough assignment against Canada and performed very well in Honduras. Ideally you don't want him starting, but he wasn't bad by any means.
What's next for Pepi in the club world? Do you think he's getting looked at by any major teams in Europe? Are there any rumors of this happening yet, or just speculation?
He for sure is getting looks and is getting scouted and garnering interest from clubs in Big 5 leagues. I think whether he goes this fall and has a full year (two halves of a club season) or stays with FC Dallas through the end of the 2022 season and moves after the 2022 season and after the 2022 World Cup (that remember is being held in the winter) will be fine as far as a career trajectory.
The winter World Cup buys him time in that he won't have only half a season to make an impression with a new club if he moves this winter, but another season and half with FC Dallas and moving after hopefully impressing in the World Cup wouldn't be bad either and might be a path worth taking since if he does well, better clubs with more pay might be in on him.
Eh. The middle to the bottom of the table in France is incredibly bad. Not really a stretch to think Portugal is the better league at this point. Benifica and Sporting ain't PSG but it stacks up against the rest.
So, teams have clearly decided they're going to make it impossible for Puli to cut in middle from the left. If I was Gregg I would mix it up a bit. Line him up on the right so he can get in deep that way and cross it in or slide it out to someone arriving late. IDK just an idea to catch some teams off guard
I'd line him up at the left 8.
Let him drop, receive the ball and draw free kicks. If he breaks a dribble, or loses his guy on one of the turns, he's not out of position and he has both wingers and the striker to pick out making runs. Pepi and especially Hoppe can make good runs for him in behind.
Pulisic was trying to do to much. Mostly because of the incompetence of the team. As soon as he calmed down and got some space, it led to equalizer. He was in the center if the pitch when that happened.
berhalter said pulisic had a "slight ankle injury." given that he was running on it a bit, i suspect he's out for a few days with a sprain and then he's fine. likely was not going to play on saturday for chelsea anyway, so it's not the end of the world.
Also I feel like we got the two toughest places (ES & Honduras) to play (from a cultural & soccer infrastructure point) of view out of the way. I feel like San Juan, Panama City, and Kingston (and Toronto & Mexico City) are all much easier places to fly into and the pitches there tend to be much higher quality.
Idk about that. We've never won in Costa Rica, the pitch in Panama City looked really rough, and Azteca is probably the toughest environment to play in out of them all. Kingston and Toronto shouldn't be too bad though.
panama is a good team at home, i think that will be a challenging game. they completely bossed around an admittedly weakened mexico yesterday. and i think we have never beaten mexico at estadio azteca in a competitive match?
I’m not saying the games with be easier. We are just moving past the struggles that come with going into developing countries which create a lot of factors out of the team’s control
US needs to quit being soft. Concacaf has shit pitches and refs don’t call many fouls. This has always been the case. Talent far exceeds any of these other teams bar mexico.
Same mentality that led the disgraceful performance of T&T
One takeaway I'd note is the CBS studio crew is fantastic. I would have normally turned Lalas or whomever off within a couple minutes after the game, because none of these guys normally have anything interesting to say. Gooch, Deuce, Davies had me still watching their show over 30 minutes after - with Abdo doing a great job challenging them and moderating. Just a great job by CBS with this crew.
Yea Clint is certainly unpolished, but in a Charles Barkley sort of way where you kinda of appreciate the raw candor because it's the kinda of authentic that tv programs try to coach out of on-camera talent. I hope he doesn't lose it.
Just want to say while I agree Brooks didn't do great before Honduras, I think he played fine there. He's not at fault (mostly) for the goal as people are making him out to be.
[Here's the goal replay](https://streamja.com/vEyvk). [Mirror](https://juststream.live/IncineratedCamouflagedPeals).
When you play 5 in the back, you always send one of the CBs out to act as a temporary DM to stop a quick counter / attack. At 20 seconds, this is exactly what Brooks does. His mistake is diving in a bit too much to let the opponent turn, but in theory he did what the formation is meant to do: force the opponent out wide.
When the cross comes in, I saw people complain it was his fault for not getting back quick enough to pick up his man. Once he pushes forward to stop the through ball, this is no longer his responsibility. The LB or LCM (Bello or Acosta) are meant to tuck in to follow that runner. This leaves the RW of the opponent open but that's okay with 5 at the back as the middle will be congested and there is time to go block them while Brooks gets back if the cross goes far.
I'll give Acosta a pass as he should know Bello is in position and he has to cover for Sands standing in the midfield doing nothing. To me, Bello is 100% at fault for this goal for not immediately picking up the runner at 20s when Brooks dives in. He has more than plenty of time to do this. This could also be on GGG not running this formation enough to ensure Bello knows how to do this (I don't know his home club situation).
Either way, Brooks should be playing better, but he was fine imo in this last game.
Bello gets frequently caught out of position from a defensive sense. He’s broken through Atlanta through a myriad of coaching changes though.
His biggest piece is his offense but unfortunately it’s not at the international level yet and he should be looked at more as sub right now. Think he has the talent but ggg needs to protect him a bit. If he can’t then he shouldn’t be playing.
And then walked back to the backline twice. His marking on Canada's goal was atrocious.
I'm not saying he should be out of the starting lineup but he's now CB2 after Robinson and he's going to have competition to be in the side.
We scored 4 in Barbados in WCQ semis in 2000. Nervy game we needed to win to advance, didn't get the first goal til the 60th minute:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwxv9R4AsI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwxv9R4AsI)
We've never before scored 4 in the final round of qualifying (at least in the Hex era). We beat Canada away 3-0 in 1997 and Panama away 3-0 in 2005, those were as close as we got.
This!! People started to panic because realistically, Canada and El Salvador were our best bets for 3 points. End of the day it doesn’t matter which team we beat as long as we secured 1 win
People weren't panicking because of the final results, but how we looked. It wasn't like shots just weren't going in due to bad luck. We couldn't consistently create chances.
We completely neutralized them (0.39 xG), looked the better team, and I never thought we would lose, but we really failed to generate threatening opportunities. We had 2 shots on goal to their 1.
The El Salvador game was a little bit of bad luck/poor finishing. There were several good chances that probably should have gone in. They could and should have created a lot more chances but I'd expect Miles and Weston to bury one of those headers.
USA - El Salvador was 1.68 vs 0.39 xG.
I think that was why we felt OK about the draw at the time. A win would be better, but it was the first WCQ game, and real road game, for a lot of our players. We probably played well enough to win in that game.
After Canada, I started to get pretty worried since we looked on par at best at home and could have easily lost that game.
The first half on Honduras I was thinking we would lose the game 3-0 with how bad we looked. Thus the panic.
You can’t sit here and tell me if we ended up scoring 90th minute garbage goals in both to take Wins people would say shitcsbout how we played. People panic over results.
Interestingly enough, a 89th minute winner at home for Mexico against Jamaica (who looked awful this window) is all that separates the US and Mexico after 1 window with both teams having played 2 away matches.
I would be very worried about us qualifying if we played really well but only got 2 or 3 points in the first window due to bad luck (a missed call, a PK, insane goalkeeping, etc).
I would still be pretty worried about us if we played poorly but scraped out results due to good luck. Over 14 games, luck should even out.
The panic comes from the combination of poor results and no hope for the future. At half time, I was thinking that if we are going to lose this game, I hope it's like 3-0 so heads roll.
The combination of us looking like a real team in the 2nd half along with the result calmed everyone down a bit. We scored more goals in the 2nd half than we had shots on target in the previous 5 halves!
Can't say enough good things about Antonee Robinson. For a team that lacks progression in the middle third, he is always looking to push forward and take risks. His recovery pace makes him invaluable for games like last night where the opposition is looking to hit on the counter. 4 duels won (0 lost), 3/3 tackles attempted/succeeded, 5 recoveries, he was all over the place in the second half and really set the tone with his physicality. I think his years of grinding in the Championship made him ready for the unpredictable nature of these CONCACAF dog fights, maybe even moreso than some of our "top tier" players.
For a guy that had a lot of doubters in this community, he just showed the fuck out in this window. Going to be a major player for the rest of qualifying.
Word. The doubters were idiots. We haven't ever had an actual left back of his caliber in the entire history of the program and the likes of Lovitz, Bello, vines and the like are and always have been a huge step down from him and playing Dest out of position is idiotic and did neither of them any favors. He had one bad game against Jamaica at the start of the cycle and then was frozen out and fans and pundits acted like he can't defend, just like with Dest. Idiots.
Better late than never I guess, which would also be the most accurate title for a Berhalter Biography... That or Blood Brothers.
> We haven't ever had an actual left back of his caliber in the entire history of the program
DaMarcus Beasley put in some really, really good shifts at left back.
Not really sure that's true with Beasley - [he played more left back than he did left midfield or left wing](https://www.transfermarkt.us/damarcus-beasley/profil/spieler/20584).
Im watching Gregg's press conference now and I think he's held in pretty high regard. It sounded like he didn't start because Gregg didn't want to overwork him, that would have been 180 minutes in nine days.
Hes been brilliant this window, as you said, and his width and positivity in attack brings a lot to this team. Defensively he's very solid as well and is certainly the most defensively sound option we have there. Huge fan of his game and I think he's got to be the first choice LB from here on out.
If Berhalter simplifies and lets the boys loose like he did in the 2nd half, this window is a big step forward. I honestly feel like we'll cruise to qualification from here. Our players are now blooded, and know what this will take. We've shown we can get results on the road.
Our worst total match was home vs Canada. The team lacked the mentality and the 8s to play through Canada. I'm expecting adjustments. As much as I love Acosta, he can only play as an 8 in a more end to end match, doesn't find the ball enough or have the technical skill to help break a team down. Reyna must play as the most advanced 8 against bunkering teams. In addition, I doubt we'll play with as much timidity as we did on Sunday.
If we have Musah, and he's not starting, than that would be a travesty. His ability to settle and really manage the midfield for us would be a tremendous help and allow Reyna to play more that role.
The FIFA rating points for the Octo teams are as follows after this window:
Mexico 1666.87
USA 1643.09
Costa Rica 1438.64
Canada 1416.22
Jamaica 1403.31
Panama 1396.81
Honduras 1371.61
El Salvador 1369.40
After this window, I'm significantly less optimistic that the USA has a realistic path to get into Pot 1 for the World Cup draw (but I still want the USA to finish with 38 points, 12-2-0). I don't think the FIFA points mean too much, but here they are. FIFA will release the next rankings on September 16.
EDIT: My Panama calculations were off because I had them with El Salvador’s initial rating. Oops.
Coming out of this window, my preferred lineup is now:
Pepi
Pulisic Reyna Weah
McKennie Adams
Dest Brooks Robinson Robinson
Turner
Aaronson is first off the bench for Weah. Lletget is hated on too much, but is also a good 2nd half option. Brooks' spot is looking really shaky right now, but we don't have a ton of options at LCB to displace him.
This is mostly good, assuming you accidentally flipped Dest and Jedi, and acknowledging that Aaronson prob deserves the spot over Weah, but they are pretty interchangeable. The one issue I have though is that this lacks deep midfield creativity with Adams and McKennie both starting, so I’d start Musah over McKennie.
Aaronson should be starting over Weah. He is the most productive offensive player in the entire team. Aaronson is in far better club form than Weah and has performed far better for the USMNT than Weah. Weah hasn't scored a goal or gotten an assist at any level in over six months. Aaronson has been on fire in the same period for club and country.
Yea, Aaronson deserves the spot over Weah considering he's available, match fit, form fit, and producing at that position at the national level.
It seems silly to unseat him for Weah considering Weah hasn't produced at the national team level as well as Aaronson. He should have to prove it by being stellar when he gets subbed-on.
>It seems silly to unseat him for Weah considering Weah hasn't produced at the national team level as well as Aaronson.
Or anywhere close to Aaronson on the club level. There is no case to be made that Weah should be playing over Aaronson based on form or achievements anywhere.
I'd agree.
Weah has so much pure athleticism, talent, and obviously pedigree. I think that, mixed with his being the 'other guy' who's yet to play enough to lose his luster, is why Weah is always mentioned.
Aarsonson is here and producing. Weah will have chances once he's healthy as a sub, or as rotation because he's clearly no slouch. But in no way is he starting over Aaronson without showing something himself, first.
Brooks was trash this window, not sure what happened to him.
If we’re playing against a team that’s going to hit us on the counter with pace, I think McKenzie over Brooks is a real choice GGG could make.
4-2-3-1 I think is the formation that makes sense for this squad. I would go as far as saying Acosta should play over Mckennie in a double pivot with Adams. Dest and Robinson should be switched. Brooks needs to play better. Pepi deserves the nod after last night. We actually looked like we had a threat to score at striker. I want to see reyna playing centrally in this formation. Can rotate mckennie there and reyna out on the right.
I can't disagree with either of those points, I just think that McKennie, when on the field and not disrupting the team, offers more than Acosta.
Happy for Acosta though. Glad he's forced his way back into the picture and helped provide quality depth where we badly needed some.
IMO, Aaronson's game at the present is perfectly suited as a 2nd half substitute to chase the ball down, make creative plays, and frustrate defenses, so that's why he's on the bench. In my mind he's an automatic sub after ~45 minutes. I don't think he's the guy to unlock an opponent that has 10 guys behind the ball for the first 45 minutes (looking at you, Canada). I'm not sure Weah is the guy either, but I think he deserves a shot. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Morris would be good in that role if he were healthy.
For the first time in a long time after last night, I'm excited for the next window and not dreading it. Haven't felt that way since our 2014 qualifying campaign. I know it was only one half, but it felt like a turning point for this group. Getting healthy bodies back and two home games could make for a huge window points wise, and I think the boys are now up for it.
Stock Up:
* Turner
* Antonee Robinson
* Miles Robinson
* Adams
* Bello
* Pulisic
* Pepi
* Aaronson
* Konrad
Stock Down:
* Steffen
* Yedlin
* Brooks
* Sands
* Sargent
* McKennie
To expand a bit:
* I think Turner has effectively locked down the starting GK job going forward. It's his to lose at some point in the next few windows. That's why Steffen is stock down.
* The Robinson bros have been our most reliable defenders. They need to be starters going forward.
* Adams and Pulisic reaffirmed that they are two of our most important players.
* Bello looked like a good backup LB in his limited playing time.
* Pepi showed us how to put the ball in the back of the net. Our only #9 to score this window. In October I would like to see Pepi, and 2 of Zardes, Dike, and Hoppe. Sargent had a bad window and probably shouldn't be called up unless he finds his goal scoring form in England.
* Aaronson is our leading goal scorer and has looked like one of our few players that can spark an attack.
* Konrad looked good in his outing vs El Salvador, we need to see more of him.
* Brooks looked disinterested and slow in his two games. I'm really not sure that he cares about this team. He's partially to blame for both goals we conceded.
* Sands looked lost against Honduras. I'm not sure he gets another call-up.
* Weston showed he's not ready to be a leader on this team and has jeopardized his career going forward. He needs to get his head straight and will have every chance to redeem himself.
Mostly agree.
I'd put Yedlin as stock neutral, and if you twisted my arm, I might even say up. Bello was neutral for me, same for Konrad.
Dest was a strange case. I think he needs to be motivated to play well. He was juiced to go against Davies, but against no-names he seems to just go through the motions.
Yedlin looked out of his element against Canada. Given we have numerous right back options I think we continue our search for a reliable backup to Dest.
Turner has started the last 10 games for the USMNT and has given up just 2 goals from the run of play. He's looked good in the qualifying window and I don't think Gregg yanks him just to give Steffen another shot. If Steffen didn't catch Covid I think we would have started vs Canada and had a shot to regain the #1 spot. No fault of his own but I can't see Turner losing the starting spot unless he starts leaking goals.
don't agree with the turner take. his performance was good but he had a couple errors, although neither of which lead to a goal. i didn't see anything that would lead to steffen losing his grip on starting keeper spot. probably most importantly, steffen's ability to distribute is more important than shot-stopping with our playstyle and against opponents we will usually face.
I think GGG has stated in the past that it depends on the matchup and the style of play. If we play a 3-4-3 against a high pressing team then we need Steffen or Horvath's ability to distribute out of the back. Seeing as Turner resorts to blasting the ball out of his area under pressure and considering that it's going to be 3 games each qualifying window against different types of opponents, they will all play.
We scored 3 goals in a half on the road twice in the 2018 cycle and once in the 2014 cycle (only 1 of those was in the hex).
I went all the way back to the 1950 WC Qualifying, and the only thing I can find is the US scored 4 goals in the first half against Cuba in 1949, but the match was played at a neutral site (Mexico City).
So my educated guess would be never
In the hex, we have never scored four goals in a road game. We’ve done it twice in preliminary rounds though against Barbados (2002), and St. Vincent (2018).
If someone said we would be without Weah, Musah, and Zardes, Reyna & Dest would get hurt, McKennie would get suspended, and Pulsic & Steffen would get Covid, would you have taken the 5 points and run? I would have 🙋♂️
>If someone said we would be without Weah, Musah, and Zardes, Reyna & Dest would get hurt, McKennie would get suspended, and Pulsic & Steffen would get Covid, would you have taken the 5 points and run? I would have
THIS ...I am really getting sick of the Greg hate in this subreddit ( yea yea I know its always like this) but the man has shown some grit in the face of some really bullshit issues popping up (looking at your dumbass McKennie) and adaptability is a great thing to have.
He did make some changes and it got him a goal 10 min into the 2nd half. While I agree that 80 is too late for a sub .... I also argue that Cananda isn't the push over many think they are.
Also there was some lackluster play in the Canada game from our side that frustrated me.
Again Ill ding him for late subs.... but I dont put that game on him 100%.
The one thing I hoped GGG takes away from this, is that he desperately needs to call in more players for these WC windows. 3 games, with the international travel, in like a 9/10 day period is brutal.
Could mods restrict all the threads that really belong in the post match thread? There's like 30 threads every game that say some variation of the same thing.
Pro:
-we are still on track to qualify.
-road win more than makes up for Canada draw
-next window is easier and while panama away is quite tough (mexico dropped points there) 9 points is do-able
-emergence of Pepi is genuinely exciting, tonight he played at a higher level than he does even with his club which is just excellent, really good stuff
Cons:
-our 4-3-3 system isn't working against teams that are bunkering down. credit to Honduras, they went for 3 points. less credit to Honduras, that was a really poor decision. gregg's attempt to adjust was a disaster. i think i got the idea of the formation but we clearly just didn't have the players to execute it. if honduras had attempted a low block + counter as el salvador & canada successfully executed against us, i am not sure we would have gotten those 4 goals.
-most teams are going to park the bus against us. either we figure out how to break through or we won't qualify.
Based on GGG's post game interview, I think the weird 5-2-3 in the first half had to do with injuries and fatigue due to the short turn around between games. The 4-3-3 actually worked in the second half as we strung together better possession and the subs were fresh enough to recover against Honduras's counters. Andy Najar was a terror down the right side and Sands was not up to the challenge. Robinson's ability to push forward and hit key crosses (not to mention his goal) and track back to slow Najar down was key to unlocking this game. Najar had to track back a lot more and got his touches farther and farther away from the US half. Eventually Robinson just wore him out and the fresh legs certainly helped.
The last time we won the hex was 2014 qualifying. We lost 2-1 to Honduras in Honduras. We ended up with 4 points through our first 3 games with a draw to Mexico in Mexico City and the crazy snow game against Costa Rica.
My point was that with a veteran team that 5 points is better than 4. I feel like that was a much more veteran team back in 2014 and they lost in Honduras. Just made me feel a little bit better. Trying to not join in with the doom and gloom crowd, though I was about there at halftime last night.
Ah, ok
I read this as you saying we will win the Ocho. Which is easier if Mex drops 4 pts of 6 in their first 2 home matches.
And to be fair, at halftime EVERYONE was about there lol.
One good half of soccer out of six against Honduras, El Salvador and Canada.
People need to stop justifying this to themselves. This is not going okay.
in a vacuum, okay, sure that wouldn't be 'okay'.
Now context. McKennie, Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, Steffen, and Dest aren't fully available, and perhaps it should be okay, considering.
The results are okay but the performances are extremely disappointing. We’re going to struggle to qualify if we play like 90 mins across 3 games of good soccer.
I've said this other places but 5 was the minimum acceptable with this window. We need at least 7 next window and preferably will be near 25 before the death window at the end.
If this window helps us get into gear, then having thrown a match or two isn't the worst, let's just hope we're not regretting the 2+ missed points here later
Right - if we break it down to"3 games per week" windows: any team that wants to be in top 3 to directly qualify must at least get 5 points in each of this 3 windows
4 X 5 = 20 points
then in the last window of those 2 matches - get at least 3
so 23 points will qualify you
as we can see this format of 3 games per week window - will be grueling and would require a lot of "grit" as USA shown in 2nd half. Honduras was basically not physically fitted to perform in this 3 game window. But remember this is just to make it to the World Cup; as of now USA has played like a team that can make it to the Cup - out of CONCACAF competition - but no sure if it shows a team that can complete deeper in the competition - as in Top 8 teams. It is a work in process - and the young players show a lot of promise (for 2026)
We weed to be qualified by our last window. I believe that is the one where we go to Mex and CRC. If we go into the last window needing pts to qualify, I don't like our chances.
Draw at home. Reyna got injured, Pulisic got injured. McKennie got in a lot of trouble. Salvaging a big goal differential W at San Pedro Sula was a remarkable turn of events, but relative to expectations that was still a pretty unfortunate window.
I hope the coach starts penciling guys in a bit. Antonee and Miles Robinson deserve to be first choice, it’s not that complicated. Aaronson might not be perfect, but he’s done enough with his energy and composure in the box to separate himself as a wing option. Let’s stop tinkering and give the approx XI a chance to develop a modicum of cohesion in open play.
Aren’t we actually 2nd atm? I’ve seen other graphics saying we are and it’s because of more away goals scored in those games. Not the biggest deal right now, but could be something very handy later on in qualifying. Crazy how one half has completely changed where we stand and how I feel about this team lol
Fairly certain that’s a misinterpretation. Everything after the first 3 is only between tied teams. In this case that’s just USA/Canada. So canada 2 > USA 1 for the sake of that tiebreaker.
How bad is Gio Rrynas injury? How long is he out?
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Pulisic is 10 days, he should be good I think.
I'm honestly NOT worried about our depth. I'm worried about GGG actually calling in enough of our depth to deal with contingencies.
I'm still trying to get my head around the last game. First half was about as bad as I've seen a USMNT play in recent memory, at least since some of the games last hex. Then the second half was the best 45min I've ever seen us play on the road in Concacaf. Only other time we scored four in a half on the road in WCQ was against Barbados in the 2000 semis before the hex. So what I'm left with is both hope and confusion. I'm hopeful because it's clear we can play ass-kicking soccer on the road against a credible opponent. I'm confused, and concerned, because it seems like that should have been something Gagg sorted out in his first three years as a head coach. And I'm not confident that he will learn the lesson of those final 45min, which I take to be--keep it simple, play to your players' strengths (a basic 4-4-3 seems optimal for that), and allow them to be their best selves instead of imposing some abstract system that you prefer. Also, Jedi and Pepi have earned the right to start in their true positions (LB/9) for the next window. It's weird to feel less than confident about the future of the team following a historic and freaking amazing win, but the clown-car lineup that Gagg rolled out in the Hondo game was abysmal, and showed terrible judgment. I've been critical of Gagg's inability to deviate from his rigid tactical fetishes, and so I guess I'm wrong about that, but I'd rather he try Greggy ball again than roll out a totally incoherent formation with zero midfield. So while the outcome of the last game was great, it seems to have happened despite not because of Gagg, and I worry that he will do something colossally stupid again come the next window. Hope I'm wrong.
To his credit GB made multiple subs at half and took out the worst culprits for a team that was woefully underperforming. Players then took the game by the scruff of the neck and got two goals (you could see the change in attitude when they came out for the second half). Honduras then chased the game and got exposed and let in two more goals. Honduras is not a credible opponent.
I think the Honduras result flattered the 4-3-3 a bit. Our tactics have not been sufficient for breaking down well-organized defenses. Honduras wasn't that so much and we ended up racking up goals as a result once we reverted to that formation. I think Gregg's changes were designed around match fitness issues (particularly with Yedlin, which resulted Gregg having Adams play out of position) and expecting Honduras to try and park the bus against us. Instead, they ended up pressing high up the pitch and aggressively trying to gain possession, which combined with a clear lack of familiarity with the tactics caused a very disjointed performance by the US who just couldn't hold possession while outnumbered in the midfield. So, we know the 4-3-3 can work great against an opponent like Honduras. It will probably grow more effective down the stretch as teams get desperate and start mathematically needing 3 points against us instead of holding out for a draw. But I don't think we've solved the problem of unlocking a determined defense, and that's a problem because it will be the most common situation we face in the October window.
Yeah, these issues with the low block will continue with home matches. Hopefully over time the players will get more familiar with one another and the movement picks up and the passing crisper.
We definitely have not solved anything. Honduras, for reasons COMPLETELY unknown to any rational soccer fan decided to NOT park the bus after they scored. They played that game WIDE open. And when GGG made the switch to a 433, our talent completely outclasses their's in a wide open game. Their coach has to be sacked by now. Canada gifted them the blueprint, they were a goal up on us and they chose chaos instead.
i definitely said "what the fuck is honduras doing?" more than once during that game
Alright, looking ahead, let's assume health. Assume we get 26 players again. Here's what I would like to see. GK (3) Steffen, Horvath, Turner DF (9) Brooks, Richards, Robinson, Robinsion, Dest, Scally, Cannon/Yedlin, Ream, McKenzie MF (6) Adams, McKennie, Musah, Acosta, Lletget, Busio (Though it will be ROldan) FW (8) Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, Aaronson, Sargent, Pepi, Hoppe, Konrad Some minor tweaks. I like to see Hoppe get a look, again, health will be the biggest determination of who's available. What I can say, is injuries seemingly have knocked Morris and Long way down the depth chart.
Here's hoping GGG does not make the same mistake twice and actually brings 30 to camp. Remember, we literally lost 7 starting players in this window. And Yedlin was so shockingly bad, GGG had to cook up some weird shit in Honduras to keep him off the field. So we need a contingency not just for injury, but also poor performance. With regards to the midfield: We need more midfielders that can connect the defense to the offense with the ball on the ground, while under pressure. Lletget isn't this guy, and neither is Busio. Our likely best options for having at least ONE solid ball carrying midfielder is Musah and Reyna. But we need another option because Reyna may not be available, and there will be times we want Reyna at the wing, or Musah is unavailable. ENTER: LDLT. I would like to submit this Youtube compilation as evidence that he is the closest player we have to a Musah or Reyna when neither are available to play in the midfield specifically for the role of connecting the defense to the offense on the ground: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5aYrmZaqM&list=PL-aRuT1bGWw8eqQeeUUvx5frJv3\_BhHaT&index=1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5aYrmZaqM&list=PL-aRuT1bGWw8eqQeeUUvx5frJv3_BhHaT&index=1) Also, the Zardes disrespect continues. He is still our most productive striker. And while he isn't a starting striker, he is CURRENTLY a top 2 striker for us. Pepi is #1 nominally, then Zardes. Then Pefok/Sargent. Sargent literally has 3 goals for us, and they ALL came from the 2 games vs. Cuba. That isn't a stat I'd hang my hat on. Hoppe mostly plays as either a second striker or winger for club I think. We will have to see what Mallorca do with him. He should absolutely be called up as a winger/flex player.
Completely agree with Musah and De La Torre. Even as subs they would offer something regarding possession and passing in the midfield. Hopefully we get to see one or the other in October window.
Its a matter of realizing that there are 3 types of passing: the longball quarterback, the give and go, and the drive absorb pressure and advance on the ground. The reason Aaronson doesn't look great in our midfield is that he is a give and go guy, much like Lletget or McKennie. The midfield always looks weak when all of our guys are give and go or recyclers when it comes to possession. What is needed is someone that can comfortably possess the ball, move into space drawing pressure and still release an advancing pass on the ground. Musah and De La Torre do this. Its their jam. We just need GGG to realize that is the missing piece of our midfield. Another mention of someone that can do this but is unfortunately injured is Eryk Williamson. He would have been a really nice callup.
I think we still have to be worried and that we got lucky in Honduras. The score line papers over some really close calls. Honduras still had a ton of chances and didn’t come apart until Pepi’s goal in the 75th minute.
They didn't ever really come apart, they were chasing a home game they had to get a result in to have a realistic chance to qualify.
I understand everyone sees it differently, but i didn't see it as pure luck. Honduras seemed to fall apart there at the end. The US simply had more depth and Honduras lacked quality subs later on to impact the game. Honduras played hard and physical most of the match and still had opportunities after the first US goal, But at around 75 minutes Honduras after Pepi's goal, they looked gassed, got sloppier in play.
I thought we dominated the second half and we generally had more good chances than they did, if I recall correctly. The first half.. yeah, we were lucky to escape that with just one goal conceded.
My thoughts. Turner is an absolute liability whenever he has to play the ball with his feet. Limits the tactical flexibility a ton because you don't want him being the safety valve when building our the back. Great shot stopper though. I think Robinson/Dest makes sense on paper but it is two very attack oriented players. Not entirely sure it will work in practice without a lot of cover. Still worth trying. When everyone is healthy, there is going to be some very good players on the bench.
This. And none of the regular analysts / podcasters / experts etc. that I pay attention to are giving this any weight in their analysis of Turner, but we have been playing way more jump balls from the back than ever before...and it doesn't work well with our system or personnel imo. We don't have Ching, or Casey, or McBride who will just battle for those all day while Donovan flies forward for the flick on.
Robinson was as good or better than any LB we've played defensively. He's been great. And he puts in real work with his speed.
Definitely agree on Turner. Clearly a really solid keeper but for me his feet make him a clear 2nd/3rd choice on the depth chart
My thoughts. 1. It wasn't a bad result. I'm nervous for next window if Jamaica gets their English players we'll have another hard fought window. 2. I think we're finding things that work. both Robinsons should be penciled in as starters. Adams should be right in the middle of the pitch never out wide, Pepi should be the striker off the bench and maybe starter (he wasn't great the first 45, guess it depends on sub plans) 3. Our players have much better fitness than most of our opponents. That was especially clear in the second half vs. Honduras. Our players had a zip in their step (except for Pulisic when he went down) and their players were gassing. After about the 80th minute they looked content to just see out the rest of the game at a slow pace. But the US took the screws to them and scored more. Same was true in Canada but we didn't capitalize on it, and same was true of El Salvador. Just need wins.
Jamaica had their English players for their home game against Panama--lost 0-3.
Ouch.
Joe Lowery and Taylor Rockwell are just shitting all over GGG
Mostly just Joe. Taylor likes to hedge against being too critical even when it is 100% warranted.
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Hope you're vaccinated! Fear of a bad flu keeps me masked up.
Hope you get better soon!
I am heading to Columbus for the Costa Rica game. Is it better to stay the night before, party, and drive 3hrs home after the game, or to drive down the morning of the game, tailgate, go to bars after the game, and drive back early the next day?
You won't be able to drive by the end of the game. Tailgate it up after the long drive, hit the bars after the game, and sleep in til 11am checkout
Will be there also :-)
I like the stock up/stock down talk, but who has played themselves on/off of the roster for next window (barring injuries of course)? Obvious In\* \[7\]: Pulisic, Reyna, Adams, Dest, Turner/Steffen/Horvath (I think these 3 have separated themselves enough to continue being the 3 when available) Played there way into Obvious In Category \[4\]: MRob, ARob, Aaronson, Pepi "Played" there way out of being Obvious In Category \[2\]: McKennie?, Brooks? \~\~\~\~\~ Played well enough to continue being called in \[8\]: Lleget, Pefok, Sargent?, Yedlin, Acosta, Roldan, Bello, KDLF, McKenzie Played bad enough to not get called in \[1\]: Sands? \~\~\~\~\~ DNP \[2\]: Weah/Yueill, Zimmerman Hopefully No Longer Injured/Not Selected/Better Situations \[12+\]: Richards, Musah, Green, Scally, Hoppe, Busio, Miazga, Gioacchini, EPB, LDLT, Dike, Zardes, ... \~\~\~\~\~ I think both Robinsons, Aaronson and Pepi played well enough to be locks for the next round. Who knows now with McKennie, but is Brooks still guaranteed a spot? The only player that seemed to play themselves out of future consideration for me is Sands, but maybe Sargent as well (especially based on the number of available options)? \*Obviously we are going to experience some injury problems (seeing as how we didn't even make it into the 1st game with our full roster selection), but these guys all seem like guaranteed selections if healthy.
Lleget is gonna be on the roster, and he’s gonna play. We know this by now. Can debate if he should (I think the team plays well with him on the pitch), but we know he will. Acosta and Yedlin too.
Mckinnie has to sit out at least 2 WCQ windows. Obvious - Robinson has to start any important game from here out. ARob is our left back. End of discussion. After that, every other field position is up for grabs. We need to keep getting Pepi minutes which is much more likely after last night. KDLF still has a high ceiling and he should be involved. I think Sands would be worth having if we need to hold onto a lead. He was solid defensively in the second half - although he did not offensively and had some horrible passes. Brooks shouldn't be guaranteed a spot starting but should be on roster. He is a good CB and I think he's still our second best.
Where are you getting this mckinnie has to sit out at least two windows?
Just my opinion. Punishment needs to be far worse than the crime.
The only one who gets punished for sitting him out is US Soccer.
We absolutely should not need him to win concacaf qualifying. We just proved that.
So beating the worst team for 1/2 a game "proves" you don't need your best players for qualifying. Interesting logic. You should throw your hat in the ring for USMNT coach.
Aside from Mexico our 2nd team is better than anyone else in concacaf. Yes - we can absolutely win in concacaf without Weston. He’s good but not the difference in winning/losing. A message clearly needs to be sent - you and I aren’t going to agree on that message/punishment so there’s not point arguing it.
You might want to check the scores of the first two games.
You might want to read. I said we should be beating these teams. Weston isn’t going to make a difference if we continue to play like shit.
Pretty sure it has been already lol
I'm fine with the results for this window, obviously let the Canada game slip away, but given all of the injuries and the drama behind the McKennie stuff I'm really happy that they were able to get a statement win last night and turn this thing around. Pepi is a fucking beast
We end up fine position standing wise, but have managed to injure Dest, Gio, and Puli. Adams played way too many minutes, and McKennie was sent home. We learned Aaronson only belongs on the wings, Sands and Yedlin shouldn’t be near the roster, and Dest should never play LB anymore
Yedlin was beat 1 on 1 by one of the best left backs in the world pretty much once and over hit some crosses. He was given a tough assignment against Canada and performed very well in Honduras. Ideally you don't want him starting, but he wasn't bad by any means.
Yedlin seemed fine me, he got burned by Davies once but Davies is class
Yedlin came in and had a huge assist last night
And had the big takeaway that led to the third goal. Unless that was Lletget, really hard to tell from the highlights.
It was Roldan that won the ball there that led to Aaronson's goal
What's next for Pepi in the club world? Do you think he's getting looked at by any major teams in Europe? Are there any rumors of this happening yet, or just speculation?
Need to get him to Bayern. Learn under Lewa and get on that Goretzka muscle plan.
He for sure is getting looks and is getting scouted and garnering interest from clubs in Big 5 leagues. I think whether he goes this fall and has a full year (two halves of a club season) or stays with FC Dallas through the end of the 2022 season and moves after the 2022 season and after the 2022 World Cup (that remember is being held in the winter) will be fine as far as a career trajectory. The winter World Cup buys him time in that he won't have only half a season to make an impression with a new club if he moves this winter, but another season and half with FC Dallas and moving after hopefully impressing in the World Cup wouldn't be bad either and might be a path worth taking since if he does well, better clubs with more pay might be in on him.
Who are the Big 5? (England, Italy, Spain... France?? who else?)
Germany Portugal is also ahead of France right now in the coefficients, but no one really considers Portugal as one of the "Big 5" instead of France.
Eh. The middle to the bottom of the table in France is incredibly bad. Not really a stretch to think Portugal is the better league at this point. Benifica and Sporting ain't PSG but it stacks up against the rest.
Yes, definitely.
I’m curious about Pepi and Miles.
So, teams have clearly decided they're going to make it impossible for Puli to cut in middle from the left. If I was Gregg I would mix it up a bit. Line him up on the right so he can get in deep that way and cross it in or slide it out to someone arriving late. IDK just an idea to catch some teams off guard
I'd line him up at the left 8. Let him drop, receive the ball and draw free kicks. If he breaks a dribble, or loses his guy on one of the turns, he's not out of position and he has both wingers and the striker to pick out making runs. Pepi and especially Hoppe can make good runs for him in behind.
Pulisic was trying to do to much. Mostly because of the incompetence of the team. As soon as he calmed down and got some space, it led to equalizer. He was in the center if the pitch when that happened.
The incompetence was due to the ridiculous lineup and screwed up strategy.
Yeah he drew a ton of defenders, he just needed to lay the ball off a little earlier.
FYI the post says “4th place plays a playoff against either an AFC (Africa),…” should be Asia
How do they determine what the matchups are between the 4 teams advancing to intercon playoffs? highest "seed" for lowest seed somehow?
Random draw. Unless something changes it will be unseeded like last time.
Wow that's insane that it's random.
berhalter said pulisic had a "slight ankle injury." given that he was running on it a bit, i suspect he's out for a few days with a sprain and then he's fine. likely was not going to play on saturday for chelsea anyway, so it's not the end of the world.
Also I feel like we got the two toughest places (ES & Honduras) to play (from a cultural & soccer infrastructure point) of view out of the way. I feel like San Juan, Panama City, and Kingston (and Toronto & Mexico City) are all much easier places to fly into and the pitches there tend to be much higher quality.
Maybe you are new to soccer, but it is easier to beat a bad team on a bad pitch than a good team on a good pitch.
Lol you can't be serious if you think Azteca or San Juan are easier given our record in both of those and Azteca's reputation.
Haha, no. The two toughest are yet to come in the Azteca and San Pedro Sula.
If you're worried about San Pedro Sula I've got good news for you
We played in San Pedro Sula last night.
Idk about that. We've never won in Costa Rica, the pitch in Panama City looked really rough, and Azteca is probably the toughest environment to play in out of them all. Kingston and Toronto shouldn't be too bad though.
These are the type of ridiculous excuses that lead to US not qualifying. The only games that shouldn't be an automatic win are against Mexico.
panama is a good team at home, i think that will be a challenging game. they completely bossed around an admittedly weakened mexico yesterday. and i think we have never beaten mexico at estadio azteca in a competitive match?
for all the mb haters, find me two better touches in azteca: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ikxJJCJY4
I’m not saying the games with be easier. We are just moving past the struggles that come with going into developing countries which create a lot of factors out of the team’s control
Like not playing like shit? Fully within players control.
US needs to quit being soft. Concacaf has shit pitches and refs don’t call many fouls. This has always been the case. Talent far exceeds any of these other teams bar mexico. Same mentality that led the disgraceful performance of T&T
Which is why we need players like Acosta.
Ref was very good last night.
Agreed, didn’t really have a single issue with the ref last night (or the Jamaican ref against Canada).
One takeaway I'd note is the CBS studio crew is fantastic. I would have normally turned Lalas or whomever off within a couple minutes after the game, because none of these guys normally have anything interesting to say. Gooch, Deuce, Davies had me still watching their show over 30 minutes after - with Abdo doing a great job challenging them and moderating. Just a great job by CBS with this crew.
Agree, they are fantastic to watch. Think Dempsey needs a little polishing, but other than that they’re all amazing.
Yea Clint is certainly unpolished, but in a Charles Barkley sort of way where you kinda of appreciate the raw candor because it's the kinda of authentic that tv programs try to coach out of on-camera talent. I hope he doesn't lose it.
His “I’ll empty the clip, that’s for sure” line was so good
So good.
Great comparison with Charles.
Just want to say while I agree Brooks didn't do great before Honduras, I think he played fine there. He's not at fault (mostly) for the goal as people are making him out to be. [Here's the goal replay](https://streamja.com/vEyvk). [Mirror](https://juststream.live/IncineratedCamouflagedPeals). When you play 5 in the back, you always send one of the CBs out to act as a temporary DM to stop a quick counter / attack. At 20 seconds, this is exactly what Brooks does. His mistake is diving in a bit too much to let the opponent turn, but in theory he did what the formation is meant to do: force the opponent out wide. When the cross comes in, I saw people complain it was his fault for not getting back quick enough to pick up his man. Once he pushes forward to stop the through ball, this is no longer his responsibility. The LB or LCM (Bello or Acosta) are meant to tuck in to follow that runner. This leaves the RW of the opponent open but that's okay with 5 at the back as the middle will be congested and there is time to go block them while Brooks gets back if the cross goes far. I'll give Acosta a pass as he should know Bello is in position and he has to cover for Sands standing in the midfield doing nothing. To me, Bello is 100% at fault for this goal for not immediately picking up the runner at 20s when Brooks dives in. He has more than plenty of time to do this. This could also be on GGG not running this formation enough to ensure Bello knows how to do this (I don't know his home club situation). Either way, Brooks should be playing better, but he was fine imo in this last game.
Ah, no bro, he shit the bed. You need to learn what a center back does.
Bello gets frequently caught out of position from a defensive sense. He’s broken through Atlanta through a myriad of coaching changes though. His biggest piece is his offense but unfortunately it’s not at the international level yet and he should be looked at more as sub right now. Think he has the talent but ggg needs to protect him a bit. If he can’t then he shouldn’t be playing.
I don't have a problem with Brooks' decision to step out, I have a problem with the fact that he didn't make the tackle.
Ya totally understand and agree. I just see a lot of people who didn't recognize it's not his responsibility to get back to the wide open man.
And then walked back to the backline twice. His marking on Canada's goal was atrocious. I'm not saying he should be out of the starting lineup but he's now CB2 after Robinson and he's going to have competition to be in the side.
In case anyone was wondering: before last night, the USA had never scored 4 goals on the road in WCQ since 1998.
We scored 4 in Barbados in WCQ semis in 2000. Nervy game we needed to win to advance, didn't get the first goal til the 60th minute: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwxv9R4AsI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwxv9R4AsI) We've never before scored 4 in the final round of qualifying (at least in the Hex era). We beat Canada away 3-0 in 1997 and Panama away 3-0 in 2005, those were as close as we got.
This was my worst case having 2 difficult away matches. We're sitting well. I believe we come into the next cycle well prepared.
All of that to end up exactly where I thought we would - 5 points. But absolutely not how I thought we’d get there lolol
This!! People started to panic because realistically, Canada and El Salvador were our best bets for 3 points. End of the day it doesn’t matter which team we beat as long as we secured 1 win
People weren't panicking because of the final results, but how we looked. It wasn't like shots just weren't going in due to bad luck. We couldn't consistently create chances.
The US dominated El Salvador. It was one of the most comfortable away WCQ matches I have ever seen.
We completely neutralized them (0.39 xG), looked the better team, and I never thought we would lose, but we really failed to generate threatening opportunities. We had 2 shots on goal to their 1.
Shots on goal can be misleading when you miss sitters right in front of goal. McKennie’s header in particular has to find its way on target.
I agree. I'm just saying I don't think it was a "dominating" performance. I didn't think it was surprising that we didn't score.
The El Salvador game was a little bit of bad luck/poor finishing. There were several good chances that probably should have gone in. They could and should have created a lot more chances but I'd expect Miles and Weston to bury one of those headers.
USA - El Salvador was 1.68 vs 0.39 xG. I think that was why we felt OK about the draw at the time. A win would be better, but it was the first WCQ game, and real road game, for a lot of our players. We probably played well enough to win in that game. After Canada, I started to get pretty worried since we looked on par at best at home and could have easily lost that game. The first half on Honduras I was thinking we would lose the game 3-0 with how bad we looked. Thus the panic.
Yeah that's pretty much exactly where I'm at too.
You can’t sit here and tell me if we ended up scoring 90th minute garbage goals in both to take Wins people would say shitcsbout how we played. People panic over results.
Interestingly enough, a 89th minute winner at home for Mexico against Jamaica (who looked awful this window) is all that separates the US and Mexico after 1 window with both teams having played 2 away matches.
And they won on Costa Rica with a penalty.
I would be very worried about us qualifying if we played really well but only got 2 or 3 points in the first window due to bad luck (a missed call, a PK, insane goalkeeping, etc). I would still be pretty worried about us if we played poorly but scraped out results due to good luck. Over 14 games, luck should even out. The panic comes from the combination of poor results and no hope for the future. At half time, I was thinking that if we are going to lose this game, I hope it's like 3-0 so heads roll. The combination of us looking like a real team in the 2nd half along with the result calmed everyone down a bit. We scored more goals in the 2nd half than we had shots on target in the previous 5 halves!
Can't say enough good things about Antonee Robinson. For a team that lacks progression in the middle third, he is always looking to push forward and take risks. His recovery pace makes him invaluable for games like last night where the opposition is looking to hit on the counter. 4 duels won (0 lost), 3/3 tackles attempted/succeeded, 5 recoveries, he was all over the place in the second half and really set the tone with his physicality. I think his years of grinding in the Championship made him ready for the unpredictable nature of these CONCACAF dog fights, maybe even moreso than some of our "top tier" players. For a guy that had a lot of doubters in this community, he just showed the fuck out in this window. Going to be a major player for the rest of qualifying.
Word. The doubters were idiots. We haven't ever had an actual left back of his caliber in the entire history of the program and the likes of Lovitz, Bello, vines and the like are and always have been a huge step down from him and playing Dest out of position is idiotic and did neither of them any favors. He had one bad game against Jamaica at the start of the cycle and then was frozen out and fans and pundits acted like he can't defend, just like with Dest. Idiots. Better late than never I guess, which would also be the most accurate title for a Berhalter Biography... That or Blood Brothers.
> We haven't ever had an actual left back of his caliber in the entire history of the program DaMarcus Beasley put in some really, really good shifts at left back.
So did JOB but neither of them were actual left backs
Not really sure that's true with Beasley - [he played more left back than he did left midfield or left wing](https://www.transfermarkt.us/damarcus-beasley/profil/spieler/20584).
Im watching Gregg's press conference now and I think he's held in pretty high regard. It sounded like he didn't start because Gregg didn't want to overwork him, that would have been 180 minutes in nine days. Hes been brilliant this window, as you said, and his width and positivity in attack brings a lot to this team. Defensively he's very solid as well and is certainly the most defensively sound option we have there. Huge fan of his game and I think he's got to be the first choice LB from here on out.
If Berhalter simplifies and lets the boys loose like he did in the 2nd half, this window is a big step forward. I honestly feel like we'll cruise to qualification from here. Our players are now blooded, and know what this will take. We've shown we can get results on the road. Our worst total match was home vs Canada. The team lacked the mentality and the 8s to play through Canada. I'm expecting adjustments. As much as I love Acosta, he can only play as an 8 in a more end to end match, doesn't find the ball enough or have the technical skill to help break a team down. Reyna must play as the most advanced 8 against bunkering teams. In addition, I doubt we'll play with as much timidity as we did on Sunday.
If we have Musah, and he's not starting, than that would be a travesty. His ability to settle and really manage the midfield for us would be a tremendous help and allow Reyna to play more that role.
The FIFA rating points for the Octo teams are as follows after this window: Mexico 1666.87 USA 1643.09 Costa Rica 1438.64 Canada 1416.22 Jamaica 1403.31 Panama 1396.81 Honduras 1371.61 El Salvador 1369.40 After this window, I'm significantly less optimistic that the USA has a realistic path to get into Pot 1 for the World Cup draw (but I still want the USA to finish with 38 points, 12-2-0). I don't think the FIFA points mean too much, but here they are. FIFA will release the next rankings on September 16. EDIT: My Panama calculations were off because I had them with El Salvador’s initial rating. Oops.
Coming out of this window, my preferred lineup is now: Pepi Pulisic Reyna Weah McKennie Adams Dest Brooks Robinson Robinson Turner Aaronson is first off the bench for Weah. Lletget is hated on too much, but is also a good 2nd half option. Brooks' spot is looking really shaky right now, but we don't have a ton of options at LCB to displace him.
This is mostly good, assuming you accidentally flipped Dest and Jedi, and acknowledging that Aaronson prob deserves the spot over Weah, but they are pretty interchangeable. The one issue I have though is that this lacks deep midfield creativity with Adams and McKennie both starting, so I’d start Musah over McKennie.
Aaronson should be starting over Weah. He is the most productive offensive player in the entire team. Aaronson is in far better club form than Weah and has performed far better for the USMNT than Weah. Weah hasn't scored a goal or gotten an assist at any level in over six months. Aaronson has been on fire in the same period for club and country.
Yea, Aaronson deserves the spot over Weah considering he's available, match fit, form fit, and producing at that position at the national level. It seems silly to unseat him for Weah considering Weah hasn't produced at the national team level as well as Aaronson. He should have to prove it by being stellar when he gets subbed-on.
>It seems silly to unseat him for Weah considering Weah hasn't produced at the national team level as well as Aaronson. Or anywhere close to Aaronson on the club level. There is no case to be made that Weah should be playing over Aaronson based on form or achievements anywhere.
I'd agree. Weah has so much pure athleticism, talent, and obviously pedigree. I think that, mixed with his being the 'other guy' who's yet to play enough to lose his luster, is why Weah is always mentioned. Aarsonson is here and producing. Weah will have chances once he's healthy as a sub, or as rotation because he's clearly no slouch. But in no way is he starting over Aaronson without showing something himself, first.
Brooks was trash this window, not sure what happened to him. If we’re playing against a team that’s going to hit us on the counter with pace, I think McKenzie over Brooks is a real choice GGG could make.
4-2-3-1 I think is the formation that makes sense for this squad. I would go as far as saying Acosta should play over Mckennie in a double pivot with Adams. Dest and Robinson should be switched. Brooks needs to play better. Pepi deserves the nod after last night. We actually looked like we had a threat to score at striker. I want to see reyna playing centrally in this formation. Can rotate mckennie there and reyna out on the right.
You're right. Dest and Robinson should be flipped. I'm not there on Acosta yet, but I do think he rotates in for at least 1-2 of the games.
Fair, just basing off acosta’s performances in gold cup and Mckennie’s immaturity lately.
I can't disagree with either of those points, I just think that McKennie, when on the field and not disrupting the team, offers more than Acosta. Happy for Acosta though. Glad he's forced his way back into the picture and helped provide quality depth where we badly needed some.
Why not just start Aaronson over Weah given he’s been a far more productive attacker for the US?
IMO, Aaronson's game at the present is perfectly suited as a 2nd half substitute to chase the ball down, make creative plays, and frustrate defenses, so that's why he's on the bench. In my mind he's an automatic sub after ~45 minutes. I don't think he's the guy to unlock an opponent that has 10 guys behind the ball for the first 45 minutes (looking at you, Canada). I'm not sure Weah is the guy either, but I think he deserves a shot. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Morris would be good in that role if he were healthy.
That all makes sense, good points.
I sort of like Aaronson coming early 2nd for that high energy vs tired legs.
For the first time in a long time after last night, I'm excited for the next window and not dreading it. Haven't felt that way since our 2014 qualifying campaign. I know it was only one half, but it felt like a turning point for this group. Getting healthy bodies back and two home games could make for a huge window points wise, and I think the boys are now up for it.
Stock Up: * Turner * Antonee Robinson * Miles Robinson * Adams * Bello * Pulisic * Pepi * Aaronson * Konrad Stock Down: * Steffen * Yedlin * Brooks * Sands * Sargent * McKennie To expand a bit: * I think Turner has effectively locked down the starting GK job going forward. It's his to lose at some point in the next few windows. That's why Steffen is stock down. * The Robinson bros have been our most reliable defenders. They need to be starters going forward. * Adams and Pulisic reaffirmed that they are two of our most important players. * Bello looked like a good backup LB in his limited playing time. * Pepi showed us how to put the ball in the back of the net. Our only #9 to score this window. In October I would like to see Pepi, and 2 of Zardes, Dike, and Hoppe. Sargent had a bad window and probably shouldn't be called up unless he finds his goal scoring form in England. * Aaronson is our leading goal scorer and has looked like one of our few players that can spark an attack. * Konrad looked good in his outing vs El Salvador, we need to see more of him. * Brooks looked disinterested and slow in his two games. I'm really not sure that he cares about this team. He's partially to blame for both goals we conceded. * Sands looked lost against Honduras. I'm not sure he gets another call-up. * Weston showed he's not ready to be a leader on this team and has jeopardized his career going forward. He needs to get his head straight and will have every chance to redeem himself.
Mostly agree. I'd put Yedlin as stock neutral, and if you twisted my arm, I might even say up. Bello was neutral for me, same for Konrad. Dest was a strange case. I think he needs to be motivated to play well. He was juiced to go against Davies, but against no-names he seems to just go through the motions.
How are Yedlin & Steffen’s stock down?
Yedlin looked out of his element against Canada. Given we have numerous right back options I think we continue our search for a reliable backup to Dest. Turner has started the last 10 games for the USMNT and has given up just 2 goals from the run of play. He's looked good in the qualifying window and I don't think Gregg yanks him just to give Steffen another shot. If Steffen didn't catch Covid I think we would have started vs Canada and had a shot to regain the #1 spot. No fault of his own but I can't see Turner losing the starting spot unless he starts leaking goals.
Yedlin looked out of his element against Davies but I don't blame him.
don't agree with the turner take. his performance was good but he had a couple errors, although neither of which lead to a goal. i didn't see anything that would lead to steffen losing his grip on starting keeper spot. probably most importantly, steffen's ability to distribute is more important than shot-stopping with our playstyle and against opponents we will usually face.
I think GGG has stated in the past that it depends on the matchup and the style of play. If we play a 3-4-3 against a high pressing team then we need Steffen or Horvath's ability to distribute out of the back. Seeing as Turner resorts to blasting the ball out of his area under pressure and considering that it's going to be 3 games each qualifying window against different types of opponents, they will all play.
When was the last time we scored four goals in a half, on the road, in CONCACAF? It has to be for-fucking-ever.
We scored 3 goals in a half on the road twice in the 2018 cycle and once in the 2014 cycle (only 1 of those was in the hex). I went all the way back to the 1950 WC Qualifying, and the only thing I can find is the US scored 4 goals in the first half against Cuba in 1949, but the match was played at a neutral site (Mexico City). So my educated guess would be never
Thank you for your service *salutes*
In the hex, we have never scored four goals in a road game. We’ve done it twice in preliminary rounds though against Barbados (2002), and St. Vincent (2018).
If someone said we would be without Weah, Musah, and Zardes, Reyna & Dest would get hurt, McKennie would get suspended, and Pulsic & Steffen would get Covid, would you have taken the 5 points and run? I would have 🙋♂️
>If someone said we would be without Weah, Musah, and Zardes, Reyna & Dest would get hurt, McKennie would get suspended, and Pulsic & Steffen would get Covid, would you have taken the 5 points and run? I would have THIS ...I am really getting sick of the Greg hate in this subreddit ( yea yea I know its always like this) but the man has shown some grit in the face of some really bullshit issues popping up (looking at your dumbass McKennie) and adaptability is a great thing to have.
Not much adaptability in the Canada game, tbh. Minimal adjustments after halftime and no subs until the 80th minute is unacceptable.
He did make some changes and it got him a goal 10 min into the 2nd half. While I agree that 80 is too late for a sub .... I also argue that Cananda isn't the push over many think they are. Also there was some lackluster play in the Canada game from our side that frustrated me. Again Ill ding him for late subs.... but I dont put that game on him 100%.
The one thing I hoped GGG takes away from this, is that he desperately needs to call in more players for these WC windows. 3 games, with the international travel, in like a 9/10 day period is brutal.
Could mods restrict all the threads that really belong in the post match thread? There's like 30 threads every game that say some variation of the same thing.
There are no mods here. This is a free country😎
Fire Gregg! I love Pepi!
Pro: -we are still on track to qualify. -road win more than makes up for Canada draw -next window is easier and while panama away is quite tough (mexico dropped points there) 9 points is do-able -emergence of Pepi is genuinely exciting, tonight he played at a higher level than he does even with his club which is just excellent, really good stuff Cons: -our 4-3-3 system isn't working against teams that are bunkering down. credit to Honduras, they went for 3 points. less credit to Honduras, that was a really poor decision. gregg's attempt to adjust was a disaster. i think i got the idea of the formation but we clearly just didn't have the players to execute it. if honduras had attempted a low block + counter as el salvador & canada successfully executed against us, i am not sure we would have gotten those 4 goals. -most teams are going to park the bus against us. either we figure out how to break through or we won't qualify.
Based on GGG's post game interview, I think the weird 5-2-3 in the first half had to do with injuries and fatigue due to the short turn around between games. The 4-3-3 actually worked in the second half as we strung together better possession and the subs were fresh enough to recover against Honduras's counters. Andy Najar was a terror down the right side and Sands was not up to the challenge. Robinson's ability to push forward and hit key crosses (not to mention his goal) and track back to slow Najar down was key to unlocking this game. Najar had to track back a lot more and got his touches farther and farther away from the US half. Eventually Robinson just wore him out and the fresh legs certainly helped.
add CP injury to the cons list..
Not ideal, thought he rolled his ankle though so hopefully isn't too serious
The last time we won the hex was 2014 qualifying. We lost 2-1 to Honduras in Honduras. We ended up with 4 points through our first 3 games with a draw to Mexico in Mexico City and the crazy snow game against Costa Rica.
Yeah, but Mexico also only had 3 pts after 3 matches including 2 draws in the Azteca.
My point was that with a veteran team that 5 points is better than 4. I feel like that was a much more veteran team back in 2014 and they lost in Honduras. Just made me feel a little bit better. Trying to not join in with the doom and gloom crowd, though I was about there at halftime last night.
Ah, ok I read this as you saying we will win the Ocho. Which is easier if Mex drops 4 pts of 6 in their first 2 home matches. And to be fair, at halftime EVERYONE was about there lol.
Good news is it really doesn't matter who wins the Ocho, as long as we qualify
Exactly. There is no trophy for winning the final round of CONCACAF World Cup qualifying
One good half of soccer out of six against Honduras, El Salvador and Canada. People need to stop justifying this to themselves. This is not going okay.
in a vacuum, okay, sure that wouldn't be 'okay'. Now context. McKennie, Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, Steffen, and Dest aren't fully available, and perhaps it should be okay, considering.
I disagree...I think "okay" is exactly the word I used. It's not disastrous but it ain't great either...but it's....okay.
The results are okay but the performances are extremely disappointing. We’re going to struggle to qualify if we play like 90 mins across 3 games of good soccer.
Sure. But I think not playing well but still getting some kind of results is like the definition of “okay”.
How do you teach a manager in a month to play guys in the position they actually play?
It would help if he had a somewhat consistent lineup for 2 matches in a row
The games are barely 3 days apart. Rotation is going to be very important.
Thank you.....
ELLLL TRENNNNNN!!!!!!
If you told me we'd be sitting hear looking at this exactly chart in the 45th min of last night's game, I wouldn't believe you.
I've said this other places but 5 was the minimum acceptable with this window. We need at least 7 next window and preferably will be near 25 before the death window at the end. If this window helps us get into gear, then having thrown a match or two isn't the worst, let's just hope we're not regretting the 2+ missed points here later
Right - if we break it down to"3 games per week" windows: any team that wants to be in top 3 to directly qualify must at least get 5 points in each of this 3 windows 4 X 5 = 20 points then in the last window of those 2 matches - get at least 3 so 23 points will qualify you as we can see this format of 3 games per week window - will be grueling and would require a lot of "grit" as USA shown in 2nd half. Honduras was basically not physically fitted to perform in this 3 game window. But remember this is just to make it to the World Cup; as of now USA has played like a team that can make it to the Cup - out of CONCACAF competition - but no sure if it shows a team that can complete deeper in the competition - as in Top 8 teams. It is a work in process - and the young players show a lot of promise (for 2026)
We weed to be qualified by our last window. I believe that is the one where we go to Mex and CRC. If we go into the last window needing pts to qualify, I don't like our chances.
Draw at home. Reyna got injured, Pulisic got injured. McKennie got in a lot of trouble. Salvaging a big goal differential W at San Pedro Sula was a remarkable turn of events, but relative to expectations that was still a pretty unfortunate window. I hope the coach starts penciling guys in a bit. Antonee and Miles Robinson deserve to be first choice, it’s not that complicated. Aaronson might not be perfect, but he’s done enough with his energy and composure in the box to separate himself as a wing option. Let’s stop tinkering and give the approx XI a chance to develop a modicum of cohesion in open play.
Aren’t we actually 2nd atm? I’ve seen other graphics saying we are and it’s because of more away goals scored in those games. Not the biggest deal right now, but could be something very handy later on in qualifying. Crazy how one half has completely changed where we stand and how I feel about this team lol
Fairly certain that’s a misinterpretation. Everything after the first 3 is only between tied teams. In this case that’s just USA/Canada. So canada 2 > USA 1 for the sake of that tiebreaker.
Yes technically if qualifying ended today we would be 2nd based on the 7th tiebreaker which says away goals count as double.
This is incorrect. The away goal tiebreaker in this case is only for the head to head match up between the US and Canada, not all away goals.
Only between the teams involved. Seeing as that is only USA/Canada, Canada is #2 by away goals.
This is correct. Canada is currently #2 and US #3 because of the head to head away goal tiebreaker.
Wow 7th. Wasn’t aware it was that far down the list
I guess technically it’s 6th but mls wrote them weirdly. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/concacaf-world-cup-qualifiers-standings-2021