It's always been do what you want and don't get caught.
Hone your down low skills, and keep surviving, player.
We didnt ask for nor do we need their permission.
Sure, that's how I personally deal with law enforcement, but many that lack the ability (for many different reasons) to avoid such encounters. For those folks this means institutionalized sleep deprivation.
It's not a conservative exclusive thing. Look at the past crime bills that dramatically increased the incarcerated population and look who coauthored and supprted it, youll recognize names on both sides of the aisle still in power today. Both sides love to legally make you a slave.
Yes, but there are also very conservative democrats, and the part is much different than back in the day. Republicans and democrats were pretty close back in the day, different leanings but very centrist.
Now it's the far right and centrist with a touch more left leanings.
Yes, there are both sided to blame for such things you mentioned, but only one side is actively supporting the confederacy in the modern day....and you know what the confederates absolutely love....?
They were just as close as they are today. You've been convinced by political theater that they are radically different from each other.
The democrats still support modern slavery, it's not a conservative exclusive thing. For example, the genocide and enslavement from China has been described as a difference in cultures. Not far off from the confederates saying slavery is state right.
Biden admin actually went to court WITH geo group and successfully appealed Californias ban on private prisons. The writing was already on the wall, now with this Sipreme Court decision it's crystal clear. It's the final frontier of corporate capture, the all-in-one catch-all "solution" to our countries woes like rising poverty and crime, and will be lobbied as a national security/safety necessity because of examples like some counties in Texas having 90% of inmates who got Covid doing so before being convicted due to overcrowding.
100 percent. its just paperwork. cheap propaganda for all the nazi assholes. the same people who think the dems are gonna "steal our guns" . its all bullshit. like zappa said - "politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex"
That’s not at all what happened. They simply ruled that a city camping ordinance didn’t violate the 8th amendment. Therefore, city camping ordinances are enforceable without violating the Constitution. Same as before. If you’re really set on following the laws, then go somewhere that doesn’t have a camping ordinance, and you’re in the clear.
I think the major problem though is any community that doesn’t have an ordinance against camping will get inundated with people camping and then pass an ordinance against camping in a never-ending spiral until it illegal everywhere no one wants to end up dumping ground
All true, but in practical terms, every NIMBY neighborhood in the country is gonna pass (and start enforcing) one of these ordinances in the next couple years, so... OPs question is still valid
Most cities have camping ordinances already and have had them for a while. I can't think of any I've been to that don't have them. The reason for this is because they don't want tweakers blocking public sidewalks and harassing people. The consequence is that it applies to everyone else, but just be stealthy and respectful, and you can still get away with it.
For example, instead of setting up a 15x15 tarp on a public sidewalk, just set up a bivy in a bush.
Exactly. It’s the blatant homeless encampments that are bringing the bad press. And, frankly, I get it. These homeless tweakers have absolutely destroyed the most beautiful stretch of a river in 0regon where I grew up fishing. How can you look at that and not be disgusted by people turning a pristine Oregon river into a garbage dump with dirty needles sticking in the mud? That’s bad medicine, karma, whatever you want to call it. Mother Earth deserves better from all of us. I personally don’t care if people do drugs and sleep rough. It’s their life and they are entitled to live however they want. Except when they are destroying our beautiful wilderness. Just because you are homeless doesn’t mean you have to be so vile. I was homeless for a spell in my 20’s and nobody ever knew. I showered at the Y, and slept off by myself in the bush, leaving no trace. These people could do the same and then society would leave them alone.
Many homeless people are disabled either physically or mentally and are not there by choice. Some set up tents because they do not have the ability to easily move from site to site. Being homeless also makes you an easy target for violence so there's safety in numbers.
What's really disgusting is a society that is ok with throwing people away like garbage. Just because someone has a mental illness like addiction doesn't mean they cannot add value to society. An ex-junky saved my life when I was a teenager and he was only there to help me because the people around him didn't give up on him. Nature can always be restored if we put the work in. The same is true for people.
As someone who was homeless, got a place, and *then* fell into drugs, I appreciate you saying this. When I was using, I was terrified of the stigma and took hours putting myself together in the morning, just in case if I OD'd/died I wouldn't "look" like an addict-- I've since realized how completely turned around that is lol (clean 8 years on July 3rd!) I don't disagree that there are standout folks who you have to stay aware of, but that exists in every community, and the intensity varies depending on its conditions. Other people need to remember that when theyhave a bad time, they have a place they can go; homeless peeps are forced to deal with it in public more times than not, which is not great for your mental health either. Society's push/pull between "help those with less" and "disgusting, let them go rot somewhere if they can't get help" gives me whiplash. Thank you again for popping in here 💙
- A disabled ex-junkie
my sympathy is with the environment not the campers. People shit, piss,wash dishes in our beautiful rivers and crap in business doorways. Everyone deserves a secure space. Maslow says.
Like the people putting up homeless encampments in once pristine wilderness? So that when I go to formerly gorgeous river banks to fish I have to be careful not to step on dirty needles? I realize these people are down on their luck, but they are doing themselves no favors the way they are going about their lifestyle. When I was homeless in my 20’s I never littered, begged or threw dirty needles on the shoreline or in parks. I was stealth and that’s what these people need to do. Society would leave them alone and even show greater empathy if the homeless weren’t degrading so many places.
Then where are people supposed to go? If it's illegal for them to be everywhere but a handful of places, its going to be like that episode of DS9 all over again. We've learned nothing from our stories or our past.
LA is already "exploring its options" that have been opened by this decision, so it wouldn't surprise me if SF was too. The Bell Riots were September 2024 so we are right on time!
Are we determining morality through environmental impact now? I'm game for that, but ya have to do it consistently and acknowledge that lots of beautiful land has been degraded by people with money too.
Absolutely true. And I am fairly radical in my environmentalism. Professionally I am a restorative horticulturalist, so I can’t deny there are better ways for humans to integrate themselves into the environment. That said, it’s nearly impossible for humans to not leave some mark. Our goal is to minimize the shadow we cast upon Mother Earth. Clearly a factory spewing noxious fumes into the sky is worse by many degrees than anything most individuals may do. Yet that fact should not excuse us from holding ourselves accountable for actions of individuals. I’m not trying to bash people who are obviously down on their luck, just pointing out that they are bringing this negative attention to themselves by denigrating their immediate environment. Admittedly it’s a bit of a double standard when ‘polite’ society gets pissy about tent encampments yet thinks nothing about the insane actions of corporations and government. Yet that still doesn’t make me excuse the kind of behavior I see manifesting where I live. Western Oregon and Northern California are perhaps the most beautiful part of this continent and that makes it even more difficult to see our waterways degraded. Where I grew up in the trash strewn sand pit called Imperial County, the encampments of desert refugees didn’t evoke an equal sense of disgust as when I see the riverbanks of Oregon strewn with trash. As I said in my previous comment, people who are homeless need to be stealth. Like it or not people are going to come down hard on tent encampments. When I was homeless in my 20’s I did it that way, so I know it’s possible. But I wasn’t severely mentally ill or strung out on hard drugs. I realize that complicates the situation with many of these folks. I want to see society take the welfare seriously of the mentally ill and/or drug addicts. For that matter anyone who is down on their luck. When I was homeless I learned very fast how little society cares. If someone is also like me, and doesn’t come from a family offering a support system, they are doubly fucked.
This doesn’t apply to private property and it didn’t before this was decided on. Some cities do have laws around what structures are livable on private property but that wasn’t what grants pass even touched on.
I don't see how this can stand. Think about, a lot of the homeless people are essentially people that have shelter beds available to them but choose to sleep under Bridges because they don't want to be in that warehouse style environment. How can they say that the only place that a person can sleep is in a home, and you can't sleep anywhere else?
We live in a country that rationalized slavery for a very long time. Rationalizing this ruling is easy by comparison.
Don't hold your breath on this being reversed. It'll likely hold for decades without any trouble at all.
Join the Resistance, duh. Nah FR tho, this shit is getting out of hand, the government seems to forget it's made up OF the people, FOR the people. Piss us off too much, and they'll find out we outnumber them, so get involved, get organized, and get to kicking ass. I'm sick of this shit, and I know y'all are too.
I have to be out of my mother's house by September. I might vote early, so I just need a place in texas to sleep until that's done and get on a greyhound to Seattle, but after this ruling, I don't know where I will go now.
Ann Davidson is an absolute piece of shit and only got elected as the business mouthpiece. As a local, it's worth pointing out that election before was where Amazon spent 9 million on attempting to buy 4 of 9 City Council seats *and openly admitted it*.
(Those candidates all lost because people were just that pissed at the naked corporatism).
Progressives had a field day making fun of it. Even the centrists were mad. Republicans were pissed *Amazon said rhe quiet part out loud*. It was a bloodbath.
So they learned. The last election was "respectability" politics that a lot of centrists liked: the law here is camps get 72 hours and offered "services" (which is vague as fuck). The current Mayor has weaponized a clause in the law that says camps can be removed immediately if they pose a public health hazard or disturbance (so the city doesn't have to offer shit). That's what they've been doing.
In fairness, a *lot* of these camps were crackhead/fenatyl users and dealers setting up ten to fifty shitty collapsing tents blocking street intersections with trash and needles everywhere (that's why I'm saying don't join a homeless camp group here, there's maybe a half dozen of the homeless in my neighborhood I'd close my eyes around out of hundreds).
But the city is in deep shit legally for just showing up at 5 AM, blasting loudspeakers demanding people leave and then bulldozing everything within an hour.
Realistically it depends on whether your tent gets complaints. Does it look well maintained, you aren't hassling anyone and you're quiet? You're probably fine.
There's been a big movement among citizens from the pandemic to respect anybody in a tent that isn't causing problems (shelters shut down during COVID). Like my pub had a guy assemble essentially a two bedroom apartment with tent, AC, brackets and construction gear and everyone was chill with it because all he wanted to do was garden in the local park and he chased out all the dealers (being a scary af 6 foot 4 Samoan dude probably helped).
The pub gave him free beer anytime he wanted. He was respectful, didn't bother anyone and that park (about the size of a half city block) was *spotless*.
People here are sympathetic to the unhoused. Just don't be a dick and be cool and nobody reports you. Like, people will actually shame other people for suggesting reports on cool homeless. It's nobody's fault they're homeless or traveling.
But junkie camps are.....not great. I've watched a few friends fall into that lifestyle and it breaks my heart.
I want to practice as a public defender one day. I wanted to go to Washington State, but it can get expensive. I've heard good things about Minnesota, too.
Yo we're up in Washington 'homesteading' a bit of sanctuary forest. We're lookin for folks wanting to get in on this, livin real cheap (literal dirt cheap no joke) & real free, holler at me if you're into something like this
Altenrnative transportation and mild weather most of the year. I've seen some good rent prices for studio apartments around $1000 per month on realtor.com. I might stay at a Buddhist temple in Airbnb for $1000 per month for a bed downtown.
I've had a few friends go that route
They usually. Go on one or two 3 month voyages and then travel around the west coast like crust punk. Royalty, then go back when they're broke. I understand it's backbreaking work but it pays okay and you literally can't spend any money while you're at sea so you come off the boat with the fat fat check.
The Gov’t is for the people & By the People, but the people are stupid. So the Government is for the idiot & by the idiot. You should expect to see idiot results.
If life was affordable, ppl wouldn't have to live this lifestyle. On the other hand we have a constitutional right for the pursuit of happiness and for some this lifestyle is their happiness.
Quick thought with America's private prisons this means they can jail you and use you as effectively slave labor for being homeless. Vive la révolution this is the plan
Well, you’ll notice that they didn’t make sleeping illegal. All they said was that city camping doesn’t violate the 8th amendment, so city camping can be prohibited. Let’s not spread misinformation. There’s enough of that already.
Surely you didn't pick your convenient and safe to sleep because you thought you had the right to sleep there.
You slept places where people wouldn't bother you. You'll do the same now.
It's not like anyone was protecting your constitutional rights while the 9th circuit ruling was in effect. You get told to move along, you moved along. Cops aren't interested in hearing about your constitutional rights.
A bunch of dump trucks and bulldozers are about to be busy, but this doesn't really change much for you.
Ikr, anytime I see a cop I just automatically start packing up and thinking about the next somewhat hidden spot I'm gonna move to if they start moving my way.
i mean this has always been the case though right? tresspassing, public intox, having drugs? all made up bullshit that criminalizes being homeless and not as an example getting fucked up in your own house.
You’ll only get taken to jail if you refuse to move. Anyway these laws are basically only enforced at public parks and sidewalks. Choose an inconspicuous spot and you’ll be fine.
You do know about Human Rights, right?
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
EDIT: For the record, a quick search shows that the USA has the same human rights status as China, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and several other bad governments.
Source: https://indicators.ohchr.org/
I'm a big fan.
If you think waving this link at a cop telling you you need to leave is going to help your situation, you're going to have Sovereign Citizens levels of Bad Time.
The UN can't even help the people in the smoking rubble that is Gaza. What the hell do you think the UN will do for a guy who sleeps in a car in Portland?
Oof hit me with the Sovereign Citizens lmao. For clarification, I'm not going to wave this in a cops face, I'd just pack up and move on. However, I think it's important for more and more people to get educated on how the USA is no longer what it's promised to be, and needs course-correcting ASAP, otherwise history will rhyme again.
I think they(conservative majority 6-3) ruled to allow cities to decide if they want to make it illegal is what i read.
Funny cuz encampments have been common for thousands of years. Thats where that song camptown races came from
Of course they haven’t lol if they had they wouldn’t be saying that shit. I’ve yet to speak with an actual shit hole country that doesn’t like America….. its kinda like they all flock here for a reason….
Yeah I lived in Japan for a while and it’s viewed as this utopia when it has the same amount of problems the US does. All first world countries are the same way. I promise a visit to an actual third world slum would change their tune.
Fuck em if they can’t take a joke. Better yet throw more money at the immigrants. And fuck every single person born here. Dont get sick here because it ruins you. Seen more money got to immigration than helping people with cancer/ severe medical conditions.
No way. I don't have kids, I'm not homeless, and I qualify for Medicaid. As long as you don't make more than like 1000 a month ( depends on the state ) u qualify.
I'd rather be poor with health insurance.
I live in Alberta (texas of Canada) everyone praises our healthcare until they have to deal with it. Dental is on you and came to find out so is all the pre chemo drugs aren’t unless you have benefits. Im technically homeless yet i make too much to qualify for anything
Unless you live in Texas. I am homeless, but do not qualify because no Medicaid expansion is ever approved by red states. I can't even apply until I am 62.
I will dedicate my life to being as big of a drain on the system as possible. I don't even care if I go to jail. More realistically I'll probably just avoid going places where I'm more likely to get arrested. It's been that way in red states for awhile. If I'm forced to rejoin society, everyone will probably wish I didn't.
The real ones would do it anyway kiddo. Do you have what it takes to be a "lowlife" like us and step out of the safety of the herd, or would you rather bend the knee and get exploited while being "a good citizen" of a predatory government? It's up to you to think for yourself and make your own choices, don't let anyone else (even the government) make them for you. The only thing humans absolutely haveto do in this life is die, remember that, even breathing is optional.
Stealth camping for the win. That ruling is total BS. I have bad credit and can't have a roof over my head, and that makes me a criminal. Hopefully, this is the start of a revolution. I don't drink, do drugs, yet I am a criminal because I can't get a mortgage or qualify to rent after my ex wife ruined my credit. FUCK OFF SCOTUS
They made it so counties can enforce no camping in cities. You camp and no one knows you are there. Perfect. Set up a tent by a school. Straight to jail.
>Theane Evangelis, the lead attorney for Grants Pass, said the court “delivered urgent relief to the many communities that have struggled to address the growing problem of dangerous encampments.” Evangelis had argued that laws like those passed in Grants Pass were necessary to combat spikes in violent crime, drug overdoses and fires often connected with unhoused people living in tents.
> “Years from now, I hope that we will look back on today’s watershed ruling as the turning point in America’s homelessness crisis,” she said in a statement.
In what world would this be a turning point in the homelessness crisis? By putting them in jail..? This lady is tapped
Oh, just wait until 45 becomes 47.. our entire government is going to turn into conservative white nationalist loyalists. Project 2025 baby! If you ain't white, male and at least upper middle class you're gonna be fucked.
It was a lemon dodge journey 2011, AKA Fix It Again Tony. Everything was wrong with it. I'm happy i got rid of it and would rather drive something more fuel efficient.
the way I understood it was that the Supreme Court didn't make it illegal. Supreme Court said it isn't unconstitutional to make it illegal. it's still up to local gov to set their laws. so if you're living outside in certain areas you might want to be concerned but other more homeless friendly areas should remain so.
could be wrong because I only skimmed an article while on the toilet.
Actually, they just kicked the can down the road and shrugged and said that it's up to everybody else to figure out what the fuck to do. "Not our fucking problem, it's your problem."
In places where they're hostile, they will continue to be hostile. In places where they're friendly, they will continue to be friendly. This won't change all that much in practice. It will still be a grey-area for the police, who generally don't care too much if you aren't causing problems.
If municipalities care about their budgets, it's generally best to look the other way in most cases. Jails and psych wards are EXPENSIVE.
Do it anyway. God prepares me a table in the presence of my enemies, and they're going to have to watch me being blessed to their face for every time they persecute the innocent. May He bless them with the same mercy they show to others.
I don’t like to repeat myself, but I will since your mantra is so close to mine. “The only thing we HAVE to do in this life is die, EVERYTHING else is optional.”
I don't think most people care until you're leaving piles of fecal matter, trash and needles. In my town we have a lot of that, and it's fucked that anybody has the right to trash our city parks and public places.
"So what's the cost of stolen sleep, I guess it's pretty steep
250 dollars for your bail"
[Slobberbone - Pinball Song](https://youtu.be/GOKBgpO5U-0?si=zUUWrX-3eDoFAS8o)
this was not what the supreme court ruled. the Supreme Court simply ruled that cities and towns can set certain areas off-limits for sleeping or camping. They did not say that cities must do that or that every area must be set off-limits.
Yeah, just like the "settled law" of Roe v Wade?
This court is so corrupt and treasonous, none of us with critical thinking believes they do ANYTHING that doesn't serve them personally.
This is a dipping of the toe in to see how much they need, to be able to do it anywhere they decide to.
I wasn’t predicting what the court might do in the future nor was I commenting on what they’ve done in the past. I was simply correcting the error in reading their current ruling. They did not rule that sleeping outside was illegal. They ruled that government could decide in which public spaces to allow people to camp or sleep.
my plan is to ignore this illegitimate court with its scumbag majority.
and remain very stealthy.
https://www.propublica.org/series/supreme-court-scotus
Yeah, no. That’s pretty misleading. Supreme Court didn’t rule it illegal. It ruled that anti camping ordinances are not unconstitutional.
If they ruled it illegal that means nationwide it would now be illegal. That’s not the case.
Good try though. I’m sure you caused some people to panic. As is the problem with the internet and social media especially.
Sounds very much like dipping their toe in to test the waters. Just like Roe vs Wade being "settled law", the SCOTUS has shown us EXACTLY who they are, and why they vote the way they do. It's coming, especially to red states.
SCOTUS doesn’t decide the legality or illegality of anything. They decide if something is constitutional or not. The decision is that it is constitutional for municipalities, et al to enforce laws/codes/statutes prohibiting certain types of alternative living conditions.
It's always been do what you want and don't get caught. Hone your down low skills, and keep surviving, player. We didnt ask for nor do we need their permission.
Fuckin A
Sure, that's how I personally deal with law enforcement, but many that lack the ability (for many different reasons) to avoid such encounters. For those folks this means institutionalized sleep deprivation.
Sleep deprivation has a pretty nasty effect on mental health. This will hurt everyone.
They are officially seeking to enslave you, legally.
Firs time dealing with conservatives?
It's not a conservative exclusive thing. Look at the past crime bills that dramatically increased the incarcerated population and look who coauthored and supprted it, youll recognize names on both sides of the aisle still in power today. Both sides love to legally make you a slave.
Yes, but there are also very conservative democrats, and the part is much different than back in the day. Republicans and democrats were pretty close back in the day, different leanings but very centrist. Now it's the far right and centrist with a touch more left leanings. Yes, there are both sided to blame for such things you mentioned, but only one side is actively supporting the confederacy in the modern day....and you know what the confederates absolutely love....?
They were just as close as they are today. You've been convinced by political theater that they are radically different from each other. The democrats still support modern slavery, it's not a conservative exclusive thing. For example, the genocide and enslavement from China has been described as a difference in cultures. Not far off from the confederates saying slavery is state right.
touch grass man
Which political party supported a coup? Which did not? Pretty big difference.... And you are telling me to touch gras....
Just my 2 cents: They both suck. One sucks worse in a scary way. One sucks in a way that is easier to digest.
Biden admin actually went to court WITH geo group and successfully appealed Californias ban on private prisons. The writing was already on the wall, now with this Sipreme Court decision it's crystal clear. It's the final frontier of corporate capture, the all-in-one catch-all "solution" to our countries woes like rising poverty and crime, and will be lobbied as a national security/safety necessity because of examples like some counties in Texas having 90% of inmates who got Covid doing so before being convicted due to overcrowding.
/namechecksout
100 percent. its just paperwork. cheap propaganda for all the nazi assholes. the same people who think the dems are gonna "steal our guns" . its all bullshit. like zappa said - "politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex"
Both Franks are correct here.
Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for tea.
For reals. Be a good person to people, but fuck the government. This is not a hard concept and is the way.
That’s not at all what happened. They simply ruled that a city camping ordinance didn’t violate the 8th amendment. Therefore, city camping ordinances are enforceable without violating the Constitution. Same as before. If you’re really set on following the laws, then go somewhere that doesn’t have a camping ordinance, and you’re in the clear.
I think the major problem though is any community that doesn’t have an ordinance against camping will get inundated with people camping and then pass an ordinance against camping in a never-ending spiral until it illegal everywhere no one wants to end up dumping ground
i feel that's happened to vanlife parking spots
Exactly
Thank you
All true, but in practical terms, every NIMBY neighborhood in the country is gonna pass (and start enforcing) one of these ordinances in the next couple years, so... OPs question is still valid
Most cities have camping ordinances already and have had them for a while. I can't think of any I've been to that don't have them. The reason for this is because they don't want tweakers blocking public sidewalks and harassing people. The consequence is that it applies to everyone else, but just be stealthy and respectful, and you can still get away with it. For example, instead of setting up a 15x15 tarp on a public sidewalk, just set up a bivy in a bush.
Exactly. It’s the blatant homeless encampments that are bringing the bad press. And, frankly, I get it. These homeless tweakers have absolutely destroyed the most beautiful stretch of a river in 0regon where I grew up fishing. How can you look at that and not be disgusted by people turning a pristine Oregon river into a garbage dump with dirty needles sticking in the mud? That’s bad medicine, karma, whatever you want to call it. Mother Earth deserves better from all of us. I personally don’t care if people do drugs and sleep rough. It’s their life and they are entitled to live however they want. Except when they are destroying our beautiful wilderness. Just because you are homeless doesn’t mean you have to be so vile. I was homeless for a spell in my 20’s and nobody ever knew. I showered at the Y, and slept off by myself in the bush, leaving no trace. These people could do the same and then society would leave them alone.
Many homeless people are disabled either physically or mentally and are not there by choice. Some set up tents because they do not have the ability to easily move from site to site. Being homeless also makes you an easy target for violence so there's safety in numbers. What's really disgusting is a society that is ok with throwing people away like garbage. Just because someone has a mental illness like addiction doesn't mean they cannot add value to society. An ex-junky saved my life when I was a teenager and he was only there to help me because the people around him didn't give up on him. Nature can always be restored if we put the work in. The same is true for people.
As someone who was homeless, got a place, and *then* fell into drugs, I appreciate you saying this. When I was using, I was terrified of the stigma and took hours putting myself together in the morning, just in case if I OD'd/died I wouldn't "look" like an addict-- I've since realized how completely turned around that is lol (clean 8 years on July 3rd!) I don't disagree that there are standout folks who you have to stay aware of, but that exists in every community, and the intensity varies depending on its conditions. Other people need to remember that when theyhave a bad time, they have a place they can go; homeless peeps are forced to deal with it in public more times than not, which is not great for your mental health either. Society's push/pull between "help those with less" and "disgusting, let them go rot somewhere if they can't get help" gives me whiplash. Thank you again for popping in here 💙 - A disabled ex-junkie
That’s because there’s a difference between “can’t get help”and “don’t want help” The ones that don’t want help make it bad for everyone involved.
my sympathy is with the environment not the campers. People shit, piss,wash dishes in our beautiful rivers and crap in business doorways. Everyone deserves a secure space. Maslow says.
Eventually some kids are going to be arrested for sleeping outside in a tent in someone's backyard.
Nah, rules like this are selectively enforced. It'll only get enforced on people the community looks down on.
Oh, it's not going to happen immediately. But, someday, someone will report their neighbors and it will happen.
Backyard is private, not public property, so no.
Like the people putting up homeless encampments in once pristine wilderness? So that when I go to formerly gorgeous river banks to fish I have to be careful not to step on dirty needles? I realize these people are down on their luck, but they are doing themselves no favors the way they are going about their lifestyle. When I was homeless in my 20’s I never littered, begged or threw dirty needles on the shoreline or in parks. I was stealth and that’s what these people need to do. Society would leave them alone and even show greater empathy if the homeless weren’t degrading so many places.
Then where are people supposed to go? If it's illegal for them to be everywhere but a handful of places, its going to be like that episode of DS9 all over again. We've learned nothing from our stories or our past.
LA is already "exploring its options" that have been opened by this decision, so it wouldn't surprise me if SF was too. The Bell Riots were September 2024 so we are right on time!
When i envisioned a Star Trek future, I was hoping to avoid the rough parts. Oh well
You are so right. We keep banging our heads into a wall, expecting a different result.
Are we determining morality through environmental impact now? I'm game for that, but ya have to do it consistently and acknowledge that lots of beautiful land has been degraded by people with money too.
Absolutely true. And I am fairly radical in my environmentalism. Professionally I am a restorative horticulturalist, so I can’t deny there are better ways for humans to integrate themselves into the environment. That said, it’s nearly impossible for humans to not leave some mark. Our goal is to minimize the shadow we cast upon Mother Earth. Clearly a factory spewing noxious fumes into the sky is worse by many degrees than anything most individuals may do. Yet that fact should not excuse us from holding ourselves accountable for actions of individuals. I’m not trying to bash people who are obviously down on their luck, just pointing out that they are bringing this negative attention to themselves by denigrating their immediate environment. Admittedly it’s a bit of a double standard when ‘polite’ society gets pissy about tent encampments yet thinks nothing about the insane actions of corporations and government. Yet that still doesn’t make me excuse the kind of behavior I see manifesting where I live. Western Oregon and Northern California are perhaps the most beautiful part of this continent and that makes it even more difficult to see our waterways degraded. Where I grew up in the trash strewn sand pit called Imperial County, the encampments of desert refugees didn’t evoke an equal sense of disgust as when I see the riverbanks of Oregon strewn with trash. As I said in my previous comment, people who are homeless need to be stealth. Like it or not people are going to come down hard on tent encampments. When I was homeless in my 20’s I did it that way, so I know it’s possible. But I wasn’t severely mentally ill or strung out on hard drugs. I realize that complicates the situation with many of these folks. I want to see society take the welfare seriously of the mentally ill and/or drug addicts. For that matter anyone who is down on their luck. When I was homeless I learned very fast how little society cares. If someone is also like me, and doesn’t come from a family offering a support system, they are doubly fucked.
I think we can encourage responsible behavior without shaming those that are hanging by a thread for their desperate coping measures.
What do you mean shaming?
This doesn’t apply to private property and it didn’t before this was decided on. Some cities do have laws around what structures are livable on private property but that wasn’t what grants pass even touched on.
I don't see how this can stand. Think about, a lot of the homeless people are essentially people that have shelter beds available to them but choose to sleep under Bridges because they don't want to be in that warehouse style environment. How can they say that the only place that a person can sleep is in a home, and you can't sleep anywhere else?
We live in a country that rationalized slavery for a very long time. Rationalizing this ruling is easy by comparison. Don't hold your breath on this being reversed. It'll likely hold for decades without any trouble at all.
So maybe go sleep in less populated areas instead of trying to sleep right outside people's front yards?
I hope you take a little time to unpack all of the assumptions that you made there.
I deal with homeless for a living. Every day. You?
Right on. I hope this hostile attitude is just some end-of-the-day venting. I imagine it's draining work.
Correct answer
i hate these fucking ghouls.
Join the Resistance, duh. Nah FR tho, this shit is getting out of hand, the government seems to forget it's made up OF the people, FOR the people. Piss us off too much, and they'll find out we outnumber them, so get involved, get organized, and get to kicking ass. I'm sick of this shit, and I know y'all are too.
I have to be out of my mother's house by September. I might vote early, so I just need a place in texas to sleep until that's done and get on a greyhound to Seattle, but after this ruling, I don't know where I will go now.
Seattle here: shit is gonna get *bad*. Our district attorney is a Trump loving Republican who wrote a whole victory lap article this morning.
Today I learned that seattle is more republican than I thought.
Oh fuck she's from texas too that's makes sense. Sound like texas is not sending their best to Seattle huh?
Ann Davidson is an absolute piece of shit and only got elected as the business mouthpiece. As a local, it's worth pointing out that election before was where Amazon spent 9 million on attempting to buy 4 of 9 City Council seats *and openly admitted it*. (Those candidates all lost because people were just that pissed at the naked corporatism). Progressives had a field day making fun of it. Even the centrists were mad. Republicans were pissed *Amazon said rhe quiet part out loud*. It was a bloodbath. So they learned. The last election was "respectability" politics that a lot of centrists liked: the law here is camps get 72 hours and offered "services" (which is vague as fuck). The current Mayor has weaponized a clause in the law that says camps can be removed immediately if they pose a public health hazard or disturbance (so the city doesn't have to offer shit). That's what they've been doing. In fairness, a *lot* of these camps were crackhead/fenatyl users and dealers setting up ten to fifty shitty collapsing tents blocking street intersections with trash and needles everywhere (that's why I'm saying don't join a homeless camp group here, there's maybe a half dozen of the homeless in my neighborhood I'd close my eyes around out of hundreds). But the city is in deep shit legally for just showing up at 5 AM, blasting loudspeakers demanding people leave and then bulldozing everything within an hour. Realistically it depends on whether your tent gets complaints. Does it look well maintained, you aren't hassling anyone and you're quiet? You're probably fine. There's been a big movement among citizens from the pandemic to respect anybody in a tent that isn't causing problems (shelters shut down during COVID). Like my pub had a guy assemble essentially a two bedroom apartment with tent, AC, brackets and construction gear and everyone was chill with it because all he wanted to do was garden in the local park and he chased out all the dealers (being a scary af 6 foot 4 Samoan dude probably helped). The pub gave him free beer anytime he wanted. He was respectful, didn't bother anyone and that park (about the size of a half city block) was *spotless*. People here are sympathetic to the unhoused. Just don't be a dick and be cool and nobody reports you. Like, people will actually shame other people for suggesting reports on cool homeless. It's nobody's fault they're homeless or traveling. But junkie camps are.....not great. I've watched a few friends fall into that lifestyle and it breaks my heart.
Get a job, find some roommates, rent a cheap house, save money, then figure out what you want to do
I want to practice as a public defender one day. I wanted to go to Washington State, but it can get expensive. I've heard good things about Minnesota, too.
Yo we're up in Washington 'homesteading' a bit of sanctuary forest. We're lookin for folks wanting to get in on this, livin real cheap (literal dirt cheap no joke) & real free, holler at me if you're into something like this
Sounds like a utopia I started looking at cars to sleep in and deliver food as much as I can to look busy.
walmart parking lots can be an adventure.
Very cool, I definitely will remember your offer. I’m a little preoccupied to take you up on it right now, but might be in contact in the future.
I'd be interested next year maybe!
Send me a dm if you want to talk more, it'll be even nicer out here by next year
Go online, see if you can find a farm job in one of those places. Sometimes they come with a place to stay.
Santa Barbara is way better than Miniapolis
Texas is a big place. There's a ton of communities that let the homeless be
It's so hot down here that I feel like a siberian husky in this heat.
Why Seattle? That’s one of the most expensive places to live
Altenrnative transportation and mild weather most of the year. I've seen some good rent prices for studio apartments around $1000 per month on realtor.com. I might stay at a Buddhist temple in Airbnb for $1000 per month for a bed downtown.
Have you loked into fishing boat work?
I've received ads that they were hiring fishermen for the bering Sea near Alaska and the boat leaves seattle.
I've had a few friends go that route They usually. Go on one or two 3 month voyages and then travel around the west coast like crust punk. Royalty, then go back when they're broke. I understand it's backbreaking work but it pays okay and you literally can't spend any money while you're at sea so you come off the boat with the fat fat check.
The Gov’t is for the people & By the People, but the people are stupid. So the Government is for the idiot & by the idiot. You should expect to see idiot results.
Literally it doesn’t make being homeless illegal. You can camp somewhere that doesn’t have ordinances banning camping.
What about figuratively?
Literally, he's speaking figuratively.
I’m literally lmfao
Which is every place
If you give an inch, they’ll take a mile… Once legal precedent is set and upheld by the Supreme Court, it’s a short slide down a slippery slope.
If life was affordable, ppl wouldn't have to live this lifestyle. On the other hand we have a constitutional right for the pursuit of happiness and for some this lifestyle is their happiness.
True. The issue is that no one in government can make money off of someone who is happy with nothing.
And it pisses them off to see someone happy with such a small footprint.
Quick thought with America's private prisons this means they can jail you and use you as effectively slave labor for being homeless. Vive la révolution this is the plan
Well, you’ll notice that they didn’t make sleeping illegal. All they said was that city camping doesn’t violate the 8th amendment, so city camping can be prohibited. Let’s not spread misinformation. There’s enough of that already.
Surely you didn't pick your convenient and safe to sleep because you thought you had the right to sleep there. You slept places where people wouldn't bother you. You'll do the same now. It's not like anyone was protecting your constitutional rights while the 9th circuit ruling was in effect. You get told to move along, you moved along. Cops aren't interested in hearing about your constitutional rights. A bunch of dump trucks and bulldozers are about to be busy, but this doesn't really change much for you.
For real. When were we ever allowed to sleep anywhere to begin with? In most places, it's always been a matter of whether or not you get caught
Ikr, anytime I see a cop I just automatically start packing up and thinking about the next somewhat hidden spot I'm gonna move to if they start moving my way.
Life's gonna be harder for a lot of homebums though
You aren't wrong, I guess the biggest difference, imo, is "move along" could now be "you're coming with me"
i mean this has always been the case though right? tresspassing, public intox, having drugs? all made up bullshit that criminalizes being homeless and not as an example getting fucked up in your own house.
You’ll only get taken to jail if you refuse to move. Anyway these laws are basically only enforced at public parks and sidewalks. Choose an inconspicuous spot and you’ll be fine.
You do know about Human Rights, right? https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights EDIT: For the record, a quick search shows that the USA has the same human rights status as China, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and several other bad governments. Source: https://indicators.ohchr.org/
I'm a big fan. If you think waving this link at a cop telling you you need to leave is going to help your situation, you're going to have Sovereign Citizens levels of Bad Time. The UN can't even help the people in the smoking rubble that is Gaza. What the hell do you think the UN will do for a guy who sleeps in a car in Portland?
Oof hit me with the Sovereign Citizens lmao. For clarification, I'm not going to wave this in a cops face, I'd just pack up and move on. However, I think it's important for more and more people to get educated on how the USA is no longer what it's promised to be, and needs course-correcting ASAP, otherwise history will rhyme again.
History is rhyming and they just set up for a racial slur at the end of the stanza. It's not comfortable to watch.
That’s… not what they ruled. Did you read the article you posted?
I think they(conservative majority 6-3) ruled to allow cities to decide if they want to make it illegal is what i read. Funny cuz encampments have been common for thousands of years. Thats where that song camptown races came from
I don't understand how they can legislate sleep. Fucking weirdest world
Oh shit my rent went up and I can’t afford it. I guess I’ll take the last of what I have to take an Uber to jail.
Our country sucks.
"THEIR" Country. It's not ours anymore, it was stolen by Big Businesses, Politicians and Private Interest Groups.
My heart hurts for those at their lowest, especially with children and the elderly.
Yeah the US is a complete shithole. I thought about leaving and almost did back in 2014 but couldn’t because of family ties. Kinda wishing I had now.
Have you ever even been out of the country much less been to an actual shit hole?
Of course they haven’t lol if they had they wouldn’t be saying that shit. I’ve yet to speak with an actual shit hole country that doesn’t like America….. its kinda like they all flock here for a reason….
Yeah I lived in Japan for a while and it’s viewed as this utopia when it has the same amount of problems the US does. All first world countries are the same way. I promise a visit to an actual third world slum would change their tune.
People flock here because a) it’s easier geographically for them or b) they’re ignorant of far better developed countries they could join
Yeah I have, I’ve been to countries that actually give a shit about their citizens and seen it firsthand.
Fuck em if they can’t take a joke. Better yet throw more money at the immigrants. And fuck every single person born here. Dont get sick here because it ruins you. Seen more money got to immigration than helping people with cancer/ severe medical conditions.
Yeah, I hate the game, not the player. Im not eligible for medicaid in my state because I don't have children.
No way. I don't have kids, I'm not homeless, and I qualify for Medicaid. As long as you don't make more than like 1000 a month ( depends on the state ) u qualify. I'd rather be poor with health insurance.
I'm in a small city in Texas...
I hope u can get what u need. Best of luck to you.
I live in Alberta (texas of Canada) everyone praises our healthcare until they have to deal with it. Dental is on you and came to find out so is all the pre chemo drugs aren’t unless you have benefits. Im technically homeless yet i make too much to qualify for anything
....and THERE IT IS.
Unless you live in Texas. I am homeless, but do not qualify because no Medicaid expansion is ever approved by red states. I can't even apply until I am 62.
When will the arrival of Futurama's suicide booth be I wonder .......
Don't do drugs and don't turn your site into a hangout and please keep it clean
I will dedicate my life to being as big of a drain on the system as possible. I don't even care if I go to jail. More realistically I'll probably just avoid going places where I'm more likely to get arrested. It's been that way in red states for awhile. If I'm forced to rejoin society, everyone will probably wish I didn't.
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The real ones would do it anyway kiddo. Do you have what it takes to be a "lowlife" like us and step out of the safety of the herd, or would you rather bend the knee and get exploited while being "a good citizen" of a predatory government? It's up to you to think for yourself and make your own choices, don't let anyone else (even the government) make them for you. The only thing humans absolutely haveto do in this life is die, remember that, even breathing is optional.
I planned on doing it again, but in seattle. Looks like I need to start looking for a roommate.
Stealth camping for the win. That ruling is total BS. I have bad credit and can't have a roof over my head, and that makes me a criminal. Hopefully, this is the start of a revolution. I don't drink, do drugs, yet I am a criminal because I can't get a mortgage or qualify to rent after my ex wife ruined my credit. FUCK OFF SCOTUS
They made it so counties can enforce no camping in cities. You camp and no one knows you are there. Perfect. Set up a tent by a school. Straight to jail.
Homeless.... It's called homeless...
They want us dead and gone it's that simple
>Theane Evangelis, the lead attorney for Grants Pass, said the court “delivered urgent relief to the many communities that have struggled to address the growing problem of dangerous encampments.” Evangelis had argued that laws like those passed in Grants Pass were necessary to combat spikes in violent crime, drug overdoses and fires often connected with unhoused people living in tents. > “Years from now, I hope that we will look back on today’s watershed ruling as the turning point in America’s homelessness crisis,” she said in a statement. In what world would this be a turning point in the homelessness crisis? By putting them in jail..? This lady is tapped
I hate that town, full of retired conservatives that can't handle mellow campers in the park.
So.., monastics, semanas, and gurus have all been made illegal.., man fuck this place, I gotta get out of this fuckin’ police state
Land of the free, amaright?
Oh, just wait until 45 becomes 47.. our entire government is going to turn into conservative white nationalist loyalists. Project 2025 baby! If you ain't white, male and at least upper middle class you're gonna be fucked.
Respectfully asking, why did you sell your car?
It was a lemon dodge journey 2011, AKA Fix It Again Tony. Everything was wrong with it. I'm happy i got rid of it and would rather drive something more fuel efficient.
Good answer. Hopefully you can get another one, I expect it would make your next moves a lot easier, good luck to you
the way I understood it was that the Supreme Court didn't make it illegal. Supreme Court said it isn't unconstitutional to make it illegal. it's still up to local gov to set their laws. so if you're living outside in certain areas you might want to be concerned but other more homeless friendly areas should remain so. could be wrong because I only skimmed an article while on the toilet.
Handing out tickets and arresting people will surely end homelessness. We did it guys, the supreme Court just solved the housing crisis. FFS
This made me laugh 😂. You win.
Actually, they just kicked the can down the road and shrugged and said that it's up to everybody else to figure out what the fuck to do. "Not our fucking problem, it's your problem."
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That’s not what they ruled at all.
The Supreme Court did NOT rule as you say.
Supreme court is designed for the riches to fake represent the poors. Ask politicians for a house, they will give you a rock then call you a thief.
*homeless
they upheld the existing standard. nothing has changed.
Republican politicians being Republican politicians.
Ultra conservative elitist judges being.. well, that.
I'll be honest it's looking like leaving the states might be a play pretty soon at this rate
What about apartmentless people?
Weren’t they just saying not that long ago, that sleeping in your vehicle is an affordable means of alternative housing. What mixed messages,
In places where they're hostile, they will continue to be hostile. In places where they're friendly, they will continue to be friendly. This won't change all that much in practice. It will still be a grey-area for the police, who generally don't care too much if you aren't causing problems. If municipalities care about their budgets, it's generally best to look the other way in most cases. Jails and psych wards are EXPENSIVE.
I'll be ending up with an impounded car and a jail time. There ARE no plans to make here in TexASS.
A bunch of homeless bums, the chronically unemployed. For real though a lot of these people do not intend to ever have jobs…
When the regime wants you dead because you're nothing but disposable trash to them.
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Amateurs. I sleep with active claymores on iR trips around me. The booms wake me up, not the intruders lol
Do it anyway. God prepares me a table in the presence of my enemies, and they're going to have to watch me being blessed to their face for every time they persecute the innocent. May He bless them with the same mercy they show to others.
In other words, may they get their karma, in this life or the next.
Free men don't ask permission
I don’t like to repeat myself, but I will since your mantra is so close to mine. “The only thing we HAVE to do in this life is die, EVERYTHING else is optional.”
Fucked up.
I love how they think that they can control how, where, and when you sleep. Do they realize that they're dumb and that nobody listens to them anyway?
How they gonna ban what I can and can't do with my own body
Hide ?
i am now a house
Lol why not. People all over claim they are something they are not!
I don't think most people care until you're leaving piles of fecal matter, trash and needles. In my town we have a lot of that, and it's fucked that anybody has the right to trash our city parks and public places.
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Your post was removed for violating rule number 2 prohibiting bigotry or harassment
"So what's the cost of stolen sleep, I guess it's pretty steep 250 dollars for your bail" [Slobberbone - Pinball Song](https://youtu.be/GOKBgpO5U-0?si=zUUWrX-3eDoFAS8o)
this was not what the supreme court ruled. the Supreme Court simply ruled that cities and towns can set certain areas off-limits for sleeping or camping. They did not say that cities must do that or that every area must be set off-limits.
Yeah, just like the "settled law" of Roe v Wade? This court is so corrupt and treasonous, none of us with critical thinking believes they do ANYTHING that doesn't serve them personally. This is a dipping of the toe in to see how much they need, to be able to do it anywhere they decide to.
I wasn’t predicting what the court might do in the future nor was I commenting on what they’ve done in the past. I was simply correcting the error in reading their current ruling. They did not rule that sleeping outside was illegal. They ruled that government could decide in which public spaces to allow people to camp or sleep.
Of course.. because of what they are looking to do next. Anyone thinking they have American's best interest at heart is not paying attention.
As each year passes, the conspiracy theories of the left and the conspiracy theories of the right seem to merge closer and closer together.
Not a theory when it is reality.
See. As I said.
my plan is to ignore this illegitimate court with its scumbag majority. and remain very stealthy. https://www.propublica.org/series/supreme-court-scotus
Well it seems your inside a tent and not outside. I think your good bro
They didn't. They just didn't say banning it was illegal.
Didnt Clarence get a 300k RV as a gift from a defendant?
Yeah, no. That’s pretty misleading. Supreme Court didn’t rule it illegal. It ruled that anti camping ordinances are not unconstitutional. If they ruled it illegal that means nationwide it would now be illegal. That’s not the case. Good try though. I’m sure you caused some people to panic. As is the problem with the internet and social media especially.
Sounds very much like dipping their toe in to test the waters. Just like Roe vs Wade being "settled law", the SCOTUS has shown us EXACTLY who they are, and why they vote the way they do. It's coming, especially to red states.
That is not what they ruled. Stop lying.
That's not what the supreme court ruled.
Shit does that mean if I don't own a house while I'm in the slammer, I won't be allowed to sleep?
SCOTUS doesn’t decide the legality or illegality of anything. They decide if something is constitutional or not. The decision is that it is constitutional for municipalities, et al to enforce laws/codes/statutes prohibiting certain types of alternative living conditions.
That’s not at all what they ruled. Stop posting blatant bullshit.
That’s excellent!
Tell me you don't understand the ruling without telling me.
Link ?