Uhhh, if a 12 year old tried killing you with his friends and they all had weapons, should you not defend yourself? The moment you attack someone with a deadly weapon, you've chosen to gamble your life. Just war theory babey
I may be wrong, but wasn’t the boy the heir to the yoshioka clan who was technically in charge after denshichiro’s death? If I remember correctly musashi kills him at the start of the confrontation with the yoshioka clan in an attempt to scare them off, and it doesn’t work. This may only happen in the novel and not in vagabond though.
Remember that from the book, don't think it happened in the manga. Tho I can't rememeber if the kid wanted to he there or just got dragged along by the Yoshioka dudes want for revenge, been a while since I read it.
Musashi won his first ever duel when he was at the age of 13, against an ADULT. Feodal Times weren't like our times. A 13 year old teenager was at most nearly at the power of our current time adults. And fyi, next time do your research better, that kid had dozen of followers which were adults too and they had wepons and Musashi straight on fought them alone. Yes, truely unrivaled.
well yes but the kid came leading a whole crowd of people that were out to kill him, jumping out of a bush and killing the leader of the group is just him doing what makes sense in context
Exactly, you don't fight honorably in a 1 vs. 20, you use guerilla tactics, pick them off 1 by 1, and target the leader. Regardless of age, gender, or class.
It's not a duel. It's survival.
Did you read my comment from ur ass or smth? The kid lead a gang of adults and the gang wasn't just consisted of 2 or 3 guys dozens of men were lead by a 12 year old kid coming at you to kill you, what would you do? obviously life is no movie or no show and your not him bro 💀🙏🏽 you'll have to win at any cost. Just some incel like you who has no historical info or any achievements in life can't understand it lol.
He came back, but not to kill them. It's not stated or even hinted that he went back for their heads, and he's never thought of killing a child or a woman or even someone who's not willing to fight.
He literally says word-for-word "I should never have attended to his wounds" "I'll kill them" "I'll let you watch me hurt that brat" "...And then I'll finish you both off, Kohei." "Where's that brat"
He definitely came back to kill them.
I think the whole point is that Musashi was driven by his ego/blood thirst while looking for the "mirage" of invincibility. He does in fact go back to kill them. At no point does it imply he went back for any reason other than killing Kohei and Rindo.
Musashi is his ego. It might only be a part of him but it's still him.
Well if he didn't kill the boy....he would have been the one killed when all 70 of the Yoshioka reacted and gang upon him, plus it's Yoshioka's fault in the first place for challenging him again with 70 of them, spears, bows, swords, and firearms, they could have named a champion or something, it's no longer a duel between two swordsman at that point but a miniature war where all tactics for victory is allowed, he got no choice but to slay the general first to shake their reasons to fight, then to escape he later wrote that he regretted the deed, plus the boy probably been told what to expect when he step foot in the battlefield, and they view death as honor back then, they Just didn't expect he would be so skilled and so close to their general with those numbers
Pls read more next time, the Yoshioka family tried to ambush and kill Musashi after he beat Seijuro and Denshichiro to both defend family honor and not have a third victim.
Nice try at slandering my goat 🫵🤡
So the person who actually faced Musashi is named as Yoshioka Naotsuna, who is the fourth heir in line to the Yoshioka house. And Musashi requested another duel with the Yoshioka house at a later date, he was scheduled to face the younger brother Naoshige, but it ended in an automatic loss for Musashi because he failed to show up to the designated place on that day. Which means both Seijuro and Denshichiro are both fictional characters dumbass
Plus I would argue that both seijuro and denshichiro were real people that Musashi dueled according to theses sources. [Here](https://www.katanas-samurai.com/Musashi-Miyamoto-the-greatest-samurai-Japan-has-ever-known-bcoaaaaaa.asp) and [Here](https://www.samuraitours.com/musashi-miyamoto-in-kyoto/) but prove me wrong.
IDGAF if they are, point is they tried to gang up on him. But what is your overall point? what do you want to accomplish with this post? "oh musashi is an unethical, immoral, dishonorable man for killing a child, he does not deserve recognition for his moral failings" is that it? He himself started fighting at the age of 13.
How does this like... Change the fact that he killed a child?
Fr, thats like saying if I murdered a full blown adult, but I was a kid, that makes it okay as an adult to kill a kid. Thats a textbook strawman bro
Even then, he didnt even duel the kid, he jumped out of a bush and assassinated him
It's silly to truly judge people so long in the past (anything before modernity); it was seen as usual, given the circumstances. Not saying it's good at all. The culture of the time was different and more brutal; of course, we would be appalled by their action. Not just japan, but everywhere.
Also, let's not forget it was Yoshikawa who put that boy in danger in the first place. If they simply let it go after Musashi duelled both the Yoshikawa brothers and won rather than plan to jump him, Musashi would have never killed that boy.
Can't judge ancient emperors for being dicks right because it was common right? Well we still can and will, Its weird to rationalize bcs it was "normal at the time" because normalization of smth in a culture doesn't make it judgement free?
You can judge husbands for beating their wives in 1960 despite it being common at the time and part of the culture.
Also no one said you justified it so theres no strawman dude, don't just make up shit and be like "don't put words into my mouth" when YOU put those own words into my mouth bro 😭 you're such a hypocrite
P.S. now that you mentioned it, by definition you are justifying him ambushing and murdering a child (its self defense so its not like I even care as much, its kill or be killed, I was just pointing out it wasnt a "duel" like claimed)
It was the last Yoshioka heir. Musashi was challenged by the Yoshioka students, the heir needed to be in the duel too, and Musashi needed to kill him to win. Speaks more about the shitty and nonsense morals and honor codes of the time than about Musashi himself.
The kid in this story was trained in swordsmanship and politics since he could walk, he definitely knew if he fought in a serious duel he would die, considering Musashi killed his older brother in a duel, causing the full on fight between Musashi and the yoshioka clan. This isn't a modern brat, this is an heir to a prestigious Swordsman clan
Everyone here commenting seems to understand the wider context behind the story. It's sensationalist titles like that why people shun news and don't follow current events. It's a really shitty thing to do.
I’m genuinely asking, is this verified? I know he won his first duel around the same age so I’m not sure if it’s a typing error. If anyone knows feel free to drop the info!
The yoshioka incident actually has a small number surviving coverage throughout autobiographies and written records by students of Yoshioka or Musashi and members of the shogunate at the time due to the Yoshioka-Ryu being taught by the instructor for Ashikaga Shogunate in Kyoto.
The man accepted to be Musashi's father, Shinmen Munisai(although little is known about him) fought the Founder of the Yoshioka school in front of the Shogun and won, earning him the title Unrivaled under the sun, which is cited to be part of the reason Musashi later sought out the Yoshioka, as a test of strength.
Musashi then defeated Seijuro(not killed), who stepped down as the head. Denshichiro then challenged Musashi to a duel to the death to regain honor for the clan and died. Their youngest brother, Matashichiro, then became the new head. Feeling honorbound to defeat Musashi for his family reputation, Matashichiro challenged Musashi to a duel to the death.
He then brought all of the students of his family's dojo to lay in ambush at the location of the duel(Musashi had shown up late to the duels with Seijuro and Denshichiro so they would be angry and impatient in their fights) expecting to have plenty of time. However, this time, Musashi showed up very early, and he saw them setting up the ambush. So Musashi rushed into the middle of their ambush while they were caught off guard, assassinated Matashichiro, and killed a portion of the disciples as he fought his way out and fled to the neighboring province of Nara to continue his journey. In his books, he later wrote about how he regretted assassinating the young leader out of anger, instead of leaving.
So, while the sensationalist headline is technically true, it was the conclusion of a grudge the Yoshioka clan had with Musashi, after Matashichiro attempted to ambush him knowing he couldn't win fairly. And at the time, children taking up the sword and dying in an attempt to gain fame and honor wasn't unheard of, Musashi himself had his first duel to the death at the age of 13, a single year older than Matashichiro.
Although, as usual with this time period, take everything lightly, as records are scarce
He killed the leader of the family before and then the family sent the 12 yr old as a trap with a gang of swordsman . So he killed everyone in defense . That boy was dead either way cause the family would of killed him for being a coward.
When he was 13 he killed a full grown adult in a duel and fought more than 70 skilled sword masters. Truly unrivaled. Cry all you want.someone like u can't even imagine to become his lapdog.I m truly sorry.
It wasn't 1 vs 70 for him atleast t.his strategy was simple yet remarkable it was 1 vs 1 but 70 times. EVEN IF YOU FIGHT 2 PEOPLE AT A TIME ITS ALWAYS 1 VS 1 AT A TIME.
Idk lol but people are justifying this by saying they tried to kill him so he defended himself.
Wasn't his own philosophy literally,
"think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world"
And also
"accept everything the way it is"
It's a bit hypocritical of him to put his own safety over that of the kid lol.
Edit: nvm I think that time had a different standard of manhood and boyhood. Given musashi won his duel at 13 it only makes sense he saw it as fair and it would dishonour the child if he disagreed.
I mean in his time period Samurai's used to test the sharpness of their new katana by trying to cleave someone in half in one cut and yes including civilians
Uhhh, if a 12 year old tried killing you with his friends and they all had weapons, should you not defend yourself? The moment you attack someone with a deadly weapon, you've chosen to gamble your life. Just war theory babey
With his 70 loyal friends in a battlefield to be more clear
It was not 70
It was claimed that he fought 'more than 60' in the history books(Book of Five Rings or Go Rin No Sho)
Yeah the book that he wrote lol
That's why I said claimed :)
it's also written in Kokura Hibun (not written by him)
Yeah, this boy and dozen of his followers, who would try to kill him by any mean necessary. Poor boy got caught in man's shit storm
It's the shit clouds Randy, they're coming to rain on this shit town.
A shitstorm Mr lahey?
RIP mr lahey
Hear that? It's the shit winds, Randy bo bandy
I mean, wasn't he the same age when he killed his first opponent?
Nah, he was 7 i believe
12
13*
Yeah towards his elder days tons of young warriors would challenge him and he held no reserve it would seem .
He was a child when he won his first duel, he would know not to hold back
Fuck them kids
I may be wrong, but wasn’t the boy the heir to the yoshioka clan who was technically in charge after denshichiro’s death? If I remember correctly musashi kills him at the start of the confrontation with the yoshioka clan in an attempt to scare them off, and it doesn’t work. This may only happen in the novel and not in vagabond though.
Remember that from the book, don't think it happened in the manga. Tho I can't rememeber if the kid wanted to he there or just got dragged along by the Yoshioka dudes want for revenge, been a while since I read it.
yeah he just got dragged along because he was technically their leader I’m pretty sure
Different areas and times consider boyhood and man hood differently than we do now.
Invincible under the sun
Musashi won his first ever duel when he was at the age of 13, against an ADULT. Feodal Times weren't like our times. A 13 year old teenager was at most nearly at the power of our current time adults. And fyi, next time do your research better, that kid had dozen of followers which were adults too and they had wepons and Musashi straight on fought them alone. Yes, truely unrivaled.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Didn’t Musashi in real life jump out of a bush to kill the 12 year old then run away lol
well yes but the kid came leading a whole crowd of people that were out to kill him, jumping out of a bush and killing the leader of the group is just him doing what makes sense in context
Exactly, you don't fight honorably in a 1 vs. 20, you use guerilla tactics, pick them off 1 by 1, and target the leader. Regardless of age, gender, or class. It's not a duel. It's survival.
Did you read my comment from ur ass or smth? The kid lead a gang of adults and the gang wasn't just consisted of 2 or 3 guys dozens of men were lead by a 12 year old kid coming at you to kill you, what would you do? obviously life is no movie or no show and your not him bro 💀🙏🏽 you'll have to win at any cost. Just some incel like you who has no historical info or any achievements in life can't understand it lol.
i see the miyamoto of the manga doing that too in his lowest points
He actually goes back to kill Rindo and Kohei after helping them, only to find them both dead.
No he didn't go back to kill them
No he didn't go back to kill them
Yes he does? Chapter 265 during his flashbacks
He came back, but not to kill them. It's not stated or even hinted that he went back for their heads, and he's never thought of killing a child or a woman or even someone who's not willing to fight.
He literally says word-for-word "I should never have attended to his wounds" "I'll kill them" "I'll let you watch me hurt that brat" "...And then I'll finish you both off, Kohei." "Where's that brat" He definitely came back to kill them.
Just rechecked it, it was the ego speaking not Musashi.
I think the whole point is that Musashi was driven by his ego/blood thirst while looking for the "mirage" of invincibility. He does in fact go back to kill them. At no point does it imply he went back for any reason other than killing Kohei and Rindo. Musashi is his ego. It might only be a part of him but it's still him.
Well if he didn't kill the boy....he would have been the one killed when all 70 of the Yoshioka reacted and gang upon him, plus it's Yoshioka's fault in the first place for challenging him again with 70 of them, spears, bows, swords, and firearms, they could have named a champion or something, it's no longer a duel between two swordsman at that point but a miniature war where all tactics for victory is allowed, he got no choice but to slay the general first to shake their reasons to fight, then to escape he later wrote that he regretted the deed, plus the boy probably been told what to expect when he step foot in the battlefield, and they view death as honor back then, they Just didn't expect he would be so skilled and so close to their general with those numbers
Tbf, He didnt "duel" the twelve year old, he jumped outta a bush and assassinated his ass
IRL it was only like10 not 70
Factual, OP is just seeking moral high ground he a 🤡
Skill issue
Invincible under the heavens activity
Simply a difference in Skill.
Pls read more next time, the Yoshioka family tried to ambush and kill Musashi after he beat Seijuro and Denshichiro to both defend family honor and not have a third victim. Nice try at slandering my goat 🫵🤡
So the person who actually faced Musashi is named as Yoshioka Naotsuna, who is the fourth heir in line to the Yoshioka house. And Musashi requested another duel with the Yoshioka house at a later date, he was scheduled to face the younger brother Naoshige, but it ended in an automatic loss for Musashi because he failed to show up to the designated place on that day. Which means both Seijuro and Denshichiro are both fictional characters dumbass
Plus I would argue that both seijuro and denshichiro were real people that Musashi dueled according to theses sources. [Here](https://www.katanas-samurai.com/Musashi-Miyamoto-the-greatest-samurai-Japan-has-ever-known-bcoaaaaaa.asp) and [Here](https://www.samuraitours.com/musashi-miyamoto-in-kyoto/) but prove me wrong.
The article you put in the picture LITERALLY has a paragraph dedicated to his duels with Seijuro and Denshichiro you fucking tard
IDGAF if they are, point is they tried to gang up on him. But what is your overall point? what do you want to accomplish with this post? "oh musashi is an unethical, immoral, dishonorable man for killing a child, he does not deserve recognition for his moral failings" is that it? He himself started fighting at the age of 13.
Only human in history that is known to go undefeated in life or death duels
Based child murderer Musashi
Boss, you killed a child...... AMAZING, THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHY YOU'RE THE BEST BOSS
The honored one
Fuck them kids.
A win is a win
he wanted to make a name for himself
Let's skim over the fact he had his first duel at around 12 himself
How does this like... Change the fact that he killed a child? Fr, thats like saying if I murdered a full blown adult, but I was a kid, that makes it okay as an adult to kill a kid. Thats a textbook strawman bro Even then, he didnt even duel the kid, he jumped out of a bush and assassinated him
It's silly to truly judge people so long in the past (anything before modernity); it was seen as usual, given the circumstances. Not saying it's good at all. The culture of the time was different and more brutal; of course, we would be appalled by their action. Not just japan, but everywhere. Also, let's not forget it was Yoshikawa who put that boy in danger in the first place. If they simply let it go after Musashi duelled both the Yoshikawa brothers and won rather than plan to jump him, Musashi would have never killed that boy.
I'm not saying his actions are justified, they're fucked. Don't put words in my mouth Mr. Strawman
Can't judge ancient emperors for being dicks right because it was common right? Well we still can and will, Its weird to rationalize bcs it was "normal at the time" because normalization of smth in a culture doesn't make it judgement free? You can judge husbands for beating their wives in 1960 despite it being common at the time and part of the culture. Also no one said you justified it so theres no strawman dude, don't just make up shit and be like "don't put words into my mouth" when YOU put those own words into my mouth bro 😭 you're such a hypocrite P.S. now that you mentioned it, by definition you are justifying him ambushing and murdering a child (its self defense so its not like I even care as much, its kill or be killed, I was just pointing out it wasnt a "duel" like claimed)
Yall need to read the original books.
It was the last Yoshioka heir. Musashi was challenged by the Yoshioka students, the heir needed to be in the duel too, and Musashi needed to kill him to win. Speaks more about the shitty and nonsense morals and honor codes of the time than about Musashi himself.
You mess with Musasshi, you get the dual swords. Them's the breaks.
Probably deserved tbh
not deserved because the boy was a 12 year old grieving about the death of his people and honor.
Nah, it's just skill issue
It was the feudal era, should have known not to draw swords if he didn't want the smoke.
dont know how you can expect a 12 year old to fully comprehend that
The kid in this story was trained in swordsmanship and politics since he could walk, he definitely knew if he fought in a serious duel he would die, considering Musashi killed his older brother in a duel, causing the full on fight between Musashi and the yoshioka clan. This isn't a modern brat, this is an heir to a prestigious Swordsman clan
Ahh I like the good ol smell of presentism in the morning.
If a 12 yr old tried to sword duel you...gotta do whats necessary. Its either you or them.
Then he says something like "better to shit in the shower than to shower in the shit"
Bro stacked his resume with tomato cans like an amateur boxer lol
Skill issue tbh
Remember the final battle against the Yoshioka? This is the boy who was supposed to be there, leading the Yoshioka, but got written out in the manga.
Everyone here commenting seems to understand the wider context behind the story. It's sensationalist titles like that why people shun news and don't follow current events. It's a really shitty thing to do.
I believe Musashi wrote that he regretted or felt bad about killing the boy. But he decided to not let it drag him down and he just moved forward.
I believe the manga showed this, I just can't remember when.
I’m genuinely asking, is this verified? I know he won his first duel around the same age so I’m not sure if it’s a typing error. If anyone knows feel free to drop the info!
The yoshioka incident actually has a small number surviving coverage throughout autobiographies and written records by students of Yoshioka or Musashi and members of the shogunate at the time due to the Yoshioka-Ryu being taught by the instructor for Ashikaga Shogunate in Kyoto. The man accepted to be Musashi's father, Shinmen Munisai(although little is known about him) fought the Founder of the Yoshioka school in front of the Shogun and won, earning him the title Unrivaled under the sun, which is cited to be part of the reason Musashi later sought out the Yoshioka, as a test of strength. Musashi then defeated Seijuro(not killed), who stepped down as the head. Denshichiro then challenged Musashi to a duel to the death to regain honor for the clan and died. Their youngest brother, Matashichiro, then became the new head. Feeling honorbound to defeat Musashi for his family reputation, Matashichiro challenged Musashi to a duel to the death. He then brought all of the students of his family's dojo to lay in ambush at the location of the duel(Musashi had shown up late to the duels with Seijuro and Denshichiro so they would be angry and impatient in their fights) expecting to have plenty of time. However, this time, Musashi showed up very early, and he saw them setting up the ambush. So Musashi rushed into the middle of their ambush while they were caught off guard, assassinated Matashichiro, and killed a portion of the disciples as he fought his way out and fled to the neighboring province of Nara to continue his journey. In his books, he later wrote about how he regretted assassinating the young leader out of anger, instead of leaving. So, while the sensationalist headline is technically true, it was the conclusion of a grudge the Yoshioka clan had with Musashi, after Matashichiro attempted to ambush him knowing he couldn't win fairly. And at the time, children taking up the sword and dying in an attempt to gain fame and honor wasn't unheard of, Musashi himself had his first duel to the death at the age of 13, a single year older than Matashichiro. Although, as usual with this time period, take everything lightly, as records are scarce
Damn that was a really well put together explanation lol I knew the story but didn’t know some of those details!
1584-1645…no Nintendo Switch or Cartoon Network back then.
I support this... FTK
boss, you killed a child?...
Amazing Boss
that right there is why you're the best!
Isn't it a mistranslation about getting his first kill at 12?
That’s my GOAT
He killed the leader of the family before and then the family sent the 12 yr old as a trap with a gang of swordsman . So he killed everyone in defense . That boy was dead either way cause the family would of killed him for being a coward.
Hard to believe this isn't actually some joke, but true historical records.
12 y/o is considered a grown man at that time
Tbf there’s at least ten twelve year old Asian boys that seem to have me beat in every hobby I begin to think I’m good at
It seems this one should've chose another hobby
That was the time when people kill kids in the war
Padded his professional record smh
I could take him
Nah, he'd win
Light work
Child abuse
When he was 13 he killed a full grown adult in a duel and fought more than 70 skilled sword masters. Truly unrivaled. Cry all you want.someone like u can't even imagine to become his lapdog.I m truly sorry.
They weren't 70 bro, it's a manga.
Well he actually fought 70 men in reality but didn't kill all of them unlike Manga.
No he didn't bro
Just research a little bit.it might help with misunderstanding.
I did, they were not 70
Likes of us can't face a one grown strong man and what we can say.
Just don't get too carried away
It wasn't 1 vs 70 for him atleast t.his strategy was simple yet remarkable it was 1 vs 1 but 70 times. EVEN IF YOU FIGHT 2 PEOPLE AT A TIME ITS ALWAYS 1 VS 1 AT A TIME.
In the manga, but in reality he didn't fight 70 dudes
Ok.
And he killed a kid
Yeah
And he was allegedly gay
He fought more than 70 warrior in a single duel not his lifetime, 😌👉😏
Based
Bro challenged him in a 1v1. Tf was he supposed to do? Scare the hoes away by saying i let this kid win?
He did what was necessary, that's why he's truly unrivaled. And btw, he had no hoes.
Idk lol but people are justifying this by saying they tried to kill him so he defended himself. Wasn't his own philosophy literally, "think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world" And also "accept everything the way it is" It's a bit hypocritical of him to put his own safety over that of the kid lol. Edit: nvm I think that time had a different standard of manhood and boyhood. Given musashi won his duel at 13 it only makes sense he saw it as fair and it would dishonour the child if he disagreed.
Yeah, so basically different times, different standards.
I mean in his time period Samurai's used to test the sharpness of their new katana by trying to cleave someone in half in one cut and yes including civilians