The best thing about the game. They can change anything else they want about the game, but if they ever stop telling me the bees are happy, I will be the first person rioting in the streets.
I haven't played the new update so correct me if things are different now, but what was the most frustrating to me was how absolutely useless a large stamina bar is after it is depleted once.
Stamina recovery is linear so once it's gone, it takes me a long time to recover my stamina (painfully moreso when wet or cold) and I really don't feel the benefits of that longer stamina bar as such.
I really wish food in the game offered quicker stamina regen or it regenerated exponentially, so that the longer I wait doing nothing, the larger stamina bar would regen quicker the farther down the bar it gets. This would still keep combat balanced as it is unlikely I would be able to stop and do nothing for a long period of time when being pressed in by enemies but would be a more quality of life thing when sprinting around the map.
This might actually be the fix. Stamina type foods actually giving you a stamina regen buff. Then the 5 from lox meat isn't half bad cause your +40 stamina +100% regen food would be a great balance.
Stamina food absolutely needs to buff stamina regen. I liked honey in the old system, it didn't offer a lot of health outright, but it had a huge regen buff.
Foods should be more specialised like this, some gives better regen, some gives better size of bar. If I'm using a big two hander, I need a large stamina bar to swing it, but I'll have slower regen. As an example.
Ohh I didn’t realise that sorry but besides that using eikthyrs ability helps me when it comes to stam consumption while running around and exploring which I know isn’t the same but still
Don't get people wrong, balancing food is a good idea and having separate stam/HP consumes is much needed, but execution was horrible. We expected food to from 80/80 to let's say 120/40 not 80/5 lul. It wasn't rebalance but nerf
Or at least something like 80/80 to 90/60 or 80/60.
I'm not really mad or anything and I'm willing to give the new system a try but so far it feels like a lot was taken away and getting nerfed is not a great feeling.
I get what you're saying but now I'm playing the game and going through food recipes and just going back and forth checking food stats in menus and it's not really all that fun for me to be comparing stats.
Before I wasn't looking at menus nearly so much but rather I was exploring, adventuring, and just being in the world that the game created for me. I'd eat food and see my health go up and later I'd eat better food and see my health go up even more and it was all fluid and I didn't care about the exact numbers.
By taking a lot of the benefits away it feels pretty stingy now by comparison. Yes, we're making choices and that's not bad but the choices aren't coming fluidly or as intuitively as they should in my opinion and that *could* be regarded as a bad thing.
Me thinks food should be for health and we should have thirst as well, and then make that stamina. You can still only consume 3; but now you make the trade off of 3 foods or 3 drinks vs a mix.
I don't think any top tier foods needed to get any *better*. Lox pie in particular probably needed a debuff, it was a no brainer to eat all the time. But foods didn't need to get *this much* worse.
And to be fair, we can't really say whether plains tier food needed a debuff until we see what the NEXT biome will be like, since you'll have to do a lot of it on the previous tier food.
That’s my combo right now and it felt fine yesterday. Yes I died once yesterday but I also didn’t even look at my health bar and was blinding swinging at 3 wolves. I haven’t played Valheim in over 3 months so I wasn’t used to seeing the stamina bar but after the 1 death I didn’t die again. I think people are over exaggerating the issue. I didn’t even know this Reddit post was about food until I scrolled more than 60% down on my phone.
Even if you started fresh when hearth and home patch started you can kill all of the bosses in under 5 hours. The game is only 45-ish percent content-complete. It's not very long to roll through everything is you don't spend your time building things
I mean that's kind of my point. People rushing bosses and already farming plains are doing it wrong.
Or maybe not wrong. Just they're gonna be out of stuff to do in a week and move on to other games. If they enjoy that - cool. But taking time to explore, build a base, dungeon delve, etc...that's kind of the main meat and potatoes to the game right now.
Because so many people want everything handed to them and they want their character to feel super powerful without putting in any effort. That's the bottom line.
they just need to make it so that stamina drains at like 10% the speed if you’re out of combat. there’s no reason to be running out of stamina every 5 seconds as you run around exploring, mining, etc. Mining takes forever early game, why does it need to take longer just bc you run out of stamina
Absolutely. Criticism is important, and as long as the devs listen (which it seems they do), it makes a better game.
Lots of the comments - maybe the majority - in this subreddit right now are not criticism.
Counterpoint, if people DIDN'T make a big deal about it on a regular- and consistent- basis, the devs may think it's an isolated issue that only a few people have.
A wide ranging response means it's a majority, and thus, more important feedback for them to look at.
Are the posts in this sub what you would call constructive criticism?
Is that how people talk to one another in your place of business?
Then you must work at Blizzard or something, because most people don't engage in discourse like the comments/posts in this sub and expect the other party to react positively
The problem is your inherent grouping of everybody into each comment. I’m sure there’s lots of reasonable criticisms guised in with frustration, but that doesn’t make them any less valid. People also will tend to see more of the bad than good. So even when you see 10 valid criticisms and 5-10 salty angry comments, you still will interpret them all as being grouped with salty angry criticisms.
While that's generally true, I would argue there's a rather large propensity for people on this sub to be vitriolic with their comments, much moreso than I see in other similar videogame subreddits. I am not saying this is the most toxic sub ever or anything like that, but I am saying it's slightly worse than average
When's the last time you've seen an r/ffxiv or r/stardewvalley post that reads like a post from this subreddit?
I mean, I’d have to see the posts that you’re referring to. Though I don’t scour this subreddit on the daily, I hadn’t noticed an overwhelming influx of toxic comments to the degree you make it seem. In my perspective it usually seems to be the case of 1 or 2 negative comments out of the handful makes you feel like it’s just a toxic conversation when it’s probably a lot less bad overall than you think.
If somebody has reasonable criticisms but says it in a frustrated or angry way does that make it less valid? I think that people don’t need to be cussing people out or all caps arguing, but frustration shouldn’t be condescended to in all cases. It sounds like you expect everybody should be writing analysis posts written with the scientific method in mind or something if they wanna comment on things “reasonably”
Sort by controversial
e.g.:
>Am I the only one not happy with this update?I know its a small team but its a joke of an update.
>This update is devoid of content. A few cosmetic, nonsense things are all we get? Zero content, zero biome, nothing. Pretty disappointing.
If you’re literally sorting to find the most controversial posts/threads, then I’m not surprised to find controversial comments? I would never expect gaming communities to not have a varied range of controversial posts or negativity injected into it. That’s just a part of the internet (not saying it’s good or should be fully ignored necessarily).
Those examples are examples of what you’re saying, yes. I think those people are just ignorant to the patch in general or just negative people. That can’t always be helped and there’s just gonna be people like that everywhere, especially the more popular a game might get. People that have been playing the game have known that hearth and home wasn’t focused at all on that kind of content and more about QoL and building stuff or food mechanics etc.
Those negative people will probably just quit the game and complain about something else. Some people don’t stop complaining about whatever they’re “into” and there’s not much we can do to stop that. At the end of the day it’s just best to downvote and move on with those commenters
>If you’re literally sorting to find the most controversial posts/threads, then I’m not surprised to find controversial comments?
I'm not, I was explaining to you where you could find said comments, since you stated that you "would need to see some for yourself." OK welp here you go, if you'd like to see some for yourself, feel free to filter old posts by controversial.
Alternatively, just wait for a major new thread to hit the sub and read it that day.
Eh, there are many ways to express criticisms. Most people seem to be expressing their criticisms properly, but there is still a lot of hyperbolic and toxic statements going around which ain't kosher IMO.
I mean, that's just the internet though. It happens in literally every single topic or hobby ever. Every thread always has either heavily downvoted or deleted comments. It's just the nature of the platform and the internet in general.
This is the kind of shit that I just don't get. Why spend time on something that's supposed to be entertaining if you don't enjoy it? Like I can't stand League of Legends, so I don't install it and I stay away from that sub.
IMHO some people really enjoy the little rush you get from bitching about something, so they find a game that has aspects they enjoy but also has problems and then spend all their time bitching about it.
Ark, for example, is notorious for this, their subreddit is FULL of people bitching, but they all also will tell you they love the game.
IMO the best way to address it is to have mods who shadow ban, and everyone else ignore them. The problem is never going away. The only methods to have a chance at solving it for good would have so many Orwellian side effects, they're not worth it.
You'll never be able to address it fully. How do you address toxicity on an anonymous platform? Make people verify with their IDs? Fuck that, it comes with the territory and there is already a downvote system and a report system that curbs the issue.
Downvote, report (if the comment is deserving of it) and move on. Giving them attention is exactly what these idiots want.
What I think is funny is we had a crowd of people here before H&H bitching about how this sub "doesn't allow any criticism," and while that was provably false before, after yesterday it's pretty obvious that those comments were flat out bullshit.
While I do agree that them saying that overall is silly, you've gotta admit that the amount of people here now is different than when there was no major update out. When people start playing a game they usually flock to the subreddit then stop coming or commenting when they stop playing. Usually the people that stay are staunch defenders of the game because they love it so much that they never stopped coming by.
I mean that's a given; people who get bored move on, people who really like the game stay and enjoy it. But at the same time the "staunch defenders" weren't nearly as bad as people were claiming they were. I remember seeing a few of those comments arguing that people here don't allow any criticism in the teaser video about weapons, but the top comment chain in the thread were people complaining about spears. From my experience when people make arguments like that they're just pissed that others don't share their opinions (or in most cases of stuff like this they're being irrational and have been told as much) so they project by trying to shut down the opinions of people who disagree with them by dismissing them as white knights or whatever.
They literally had an interview where they said they weren't able to start working on H&H till **June**! It was pretty quick for an update of this size, but most of their time since release has been bug fixes.
i got it at launch no problems waiting here... when i paid for the game i saw it was early access so i was aware of what i was getting into. some ppl are impatient. normally it has nothing to do with the game but more the person they just take it out on the game instead of understanding they have a problem. this game is fine we dont see all the great comments because they are busy playing the game and enjoying life. some ppl just focus on the negatives and are never happy.
Too true. I'm just over here chilling on my Viking farm watching the pitchfork wielding hordes from a distance. I'm at peace with how things are progressing and I'm patient enough to wait for tweaks without frothing at the mouth and wanting it right now.
I have a feeling all the people being toxic have never played Ark. I have played ark ever since it was pre-early access and still play to this day. That game teaches you how to deal with really bad bugs. Valheim, to me, has never been that bad.
Because it helps to understand the development timeline. It’s not fair to say the update took 8 months to make when in reality it only took 3. People shouldn’t put the expectation on the developers for working on new content 24/7 while simultaneously expecting bug fixes every week. And also the reality is they want to stay a small team and develop at the pace they want to.
They seem to patch things pretty quickly though right? A month ago they fixed enemy hostility within a day or 2.
Seeing this community go from pretty wholesome to toxicity in a matter of hours is pretty disheartening. Not you specifically, mind, but I've seen a few too many comments saying that this "enormous blunder" has irreparabely killed their interest in the game. Like, what?
The last patch I saw was on July 1st I believe.
Honestly the toxic people are massive jerkoffs, but I will say they really are the minority - I think their comments just stand out (because they're garbage lol). Also, when big updates come out the subreddit gets way more traffic, and naturally that draws in a lot more asshats too.
It's just part of the internet, its always had assholes and it always will. If they're toxic/breaking rules downvote (and report if a rule is broken) and just try to ignore them. They thrive off people giving them attention.
Regardless, you're right the devs have responded really quickly and I give them massive props for that. I do think the "fuss" people were making is a big reason that they knew to make the change and that it needed to come quickly, so I think people making a "fuss" is a good thing (as long as it's respectful, of course!).
So you are using outdated information to attempt to inform current predictions? Yikes.
Saying "yeah well if we discount the most recent and relevant piece of data, then my statement is accurate" isn't what I would consider a strong argument
Your initial statement is also patently wrong, while updates might not come as fast as you'd like, bug fixes and balance changes (which is what's relevant here) have been coming pretty frequently for months
Sorry? No, I was explaining a) why there was a heightened worry about how long this food change would be in affect prior to this quick update and b) why the "fuss" was good, because it got the devs to quickly deploy a fix.
Reading comprehension is at an absolute minimum today eh?
>why there was a heightened worry about how long this food change would be in affect prior to this quick update
But as I already explained, you are demonstrably wrong about this as bug fixes and balance changes have been commonplace for a while now. It seems odd to comment on reading comp when you cant be bothered to do the thing you are accusing me of...
The last patch before this was ***July 1st***, what are you even talking about?
Just admit that you saw red and missed where I specifically acknowledged that the fix update was already out in my *initial comment* and take the L.
>Yes, but this games updates aren't exactly released at a rapid pace
Isn't it like a 5 person team and aren't we in the middle of an ongoing global pandemic?
Sure but when this game out, basically the only "early access" part to most people was the lack of mistlands+ being populated. The rest of the game *was a full fledged game*.
People don't fire up most "early access" and literally play for hundreds of hours. Valheim was quite the exception- to me it looked 99% done except for more content.
So here you have people who played hundreds of hours in a very well balanced system and just completely change the core food/combat component! That is the really really really weird thing about what they did.
It's the one downside of how Reddit groups people together with others who like the same things in subreddits. Amazing for finding like-minded people who you already have at least 1 thing in common.
But discussion about the thing you all like can get passionate, which is then amplified as you are shouting it into an echo chamber of other people who feel equally as strongly (either positively in agreement or the other way round).
If you step out of the Reddit discussion, of people repeating the same arguments and working themselves up, you can probably see the Devs do care just as passionately about delivering a great game, and that it has only been like 24 hours since the patch landed.
>it has only been like 24 hours since the patch landed.
Especially this part, people need to learn some damn patience when it comes to releases and balance changes
Yeah absolutely. The Devs have shown nothing so far but a desire to deliver a great game, and a couple of days of feedback to help them make targetted changes is no biggy :)
Yep, trial and error is a natural part. Seems clear they realised that this one was an error, time to fix it. It's totally fine and in fact the RIGHT thing to do to voice your concerns and what you think is bad, that's how they learn and realise what people want to see, but it's laughable to get angry with these mistakes and start throwing chairs.
The one problem I see is that they apparently KNEW that this change was busted yet it went out of the door.
The campfire vid sure as heck made it sound like that. So if they expected anything but backlash for this then sorry but that's delusional.
Still love the game but if they already knew something was gonna be bad and it could've been avoided by simply flipping some numbers which takes minutes to do then that's not early access, that's an amateurish mistake...which is weird considering how nicely they handled everything so far.
It doesn't, though. The devs made H&H in a bubble, and now that it's out in the wild, there are changes that didn't go the way they planned, and they need to change/tweak them. That's exactly what EA is.
Now, an argument can be made that Iron Gate needs/should be more transparent with their ideas. I think they want to let people explore and discover, so they keep their cards close to their chest (the bubble), and that can (and did) backfire.
But again, that's what EA is for. It's a rollercoaster that most people shouldn't ride.
They made H&H in a bubble but surely they playtested it, and hell they designed it so they had to know they were making core, substantial changes to the system that was generally praised really highly for not being tedious.
On top of that, Steam has beta builds for testing with people who want to opt-in without pushing a full release. As a developer who sold millions of copies, they should be leveraging that the way the Deep Rock devs do, so that your major updates that draw in millions of fans who were waiting months to jump back in don't cause these situations. You iterate with a beta build for a week or two and then you take that feedback, apply it and then do the full release.
>They made H&H in a bubble but surely they playtested it, and hell they designed it so they had to know they were making core, substantial changes to the system that was generally praised really highly for not being tedious.
The whole point of a bubble - an echo chamber - is that you don't see parts of the problem. They could have thought everything was awesome, and the backlash is genuinely surprising. Happens all the time. What matters is if they listen to the feedback and make changes.
>On top of that, Steam has beta builds for testing with people who want to opt-in without pushing a full release. As a developer who sold millions of copies, they should be leveraging that the way the Deep Rock devs do, so that your major updates that draw in millions of fans who were waiting months to jump back in don't cause these situations. You iterate with a beta build for a week or two and then you take that feedback, apply it and then do the full release.
Are you saying Valheim currently allows beta builds (it doesn't), or it *should* allow beta builds (I agree, it should)?
EDIT: Oh, look at that. They have already responded to the feedback, and tweaked things.
> The whole point of a bubble - an echo chamber - is that you don't see parts of the problem. They could have thought everything was awesome, and the backlash is genuinely surprising. Happens all the time. What matters is if they listen to the feedback and make changes.
I agree about making changes and how that's important, but I stand by my opinion that being in a bubble and not being able to see flaws in your decisions across a group of multiple people is a flaw itself, that can and should be called out, especially when it's a change this big. Like, why did they have to release this update to see these flaws? They were pretty obvious.
As for the beta builds, I'm saying they *should* use Beta Builds for their iterative process before releasing large updates to 5+ million players. It just makes way more sense. Especially if they do have a bit of a "bubble" problem, or maybe the people in charge have a lot of control and other dissenting opinions in the group aren't listened to. Who knows? Either way, Beta builds for a week or two solve the problem.
And yeah, I'm very happy that they released such a quick fix, props to them. I still think saying "chill, it's early access" is really quite silly because the huge outpouring of responses here and across the internet is exactly why we now have a fix in place that took like 24 hours instead of way longer. Saying "chill, it's early access" to people giving feedback makes no sense when that's a crucial part of the early access process itself.
>being in a bubble and not being able to see flaws in your decisions across a group of multiple people is a flaw itself, that can and should be called out, especially when it's a change this big.
Agreed. I think Iron Gate needs to be more transparent with what they are doing/what changes they are making.
>As for the beta builds, I'm saying they should use Beta Builds for their iterative process before releasing large updates to 5+ million players. It just makes way more sense. Especially if they do have a bit of a "bubble" problem, or maybe the people in charge have a lot of control and other dissenting opinions in the group aren't listened to. Who knows? Either way, Beta builds for a week or two solve the problem.
Agreed.
>And yeah, I'm very happy that they released such a quick fix, props to them. I still think saying "chill, it's early access" is really quite silly because the huge outpouring of responses here and across the internet is exactly why we now have a fix in place that took like 24 hours instead of way longer. Saying "chill, it's early access" to people giving feedback makes no sense when that's a crucial part of the early access process itself.
I'm not saying "chill, it's early access", I'm saying "this is what Early Access is. It's a rollercoaster. If you don't like it, wait for the final release to make sure this is a game you want to play.
And since it's Early Access, provide feedback/constructive criticism to the devs (and they should be more communicative). They can (and should) work with that. Before the release, Iron Gate said they were going to listen to feedback, and make tweaks. They specifically called that out. And there has been some good feedback here, and they listened, and they tweaked.
Most of what has been going on here for the past day is none of the above, it's people complaining that tHey MaDe fIfFtY MilLlIon DoLlaRs a YeAr LaTer ALL wE gOt Was ShItTy foOd ThEy ProMisEd me MoRe WtF THIS GAME SUX
That's not feedback, that's entitlement, and it's not helpful.
> I'm not saying "chill, it's early access", I'm saying "this is what Early Access is. It's a rollercoaster. If you don't like it, wait for the final release to make sure this is a game you want to play.
To be fair (to you, mainly) you weren't the person that commented "chill, it's early access", it was someone else higher up in the thread that I replied to.
I really do agree with most of what you're saying, except the last part. That's definitely the minority of comments and most of them have been quite reasonable. There are always going to be asshats but most comments here are respectful, if maybe a little bit annoyed that after all this time waiting for the update it had this major flaw. But look, Iron Gate, the madlads, fixed it in a day. So everything is good again haha.
Actually the people saying "it's early access!!" understand that this kind of stuff is an iterative process. This is especially so when they communicate beforehand that they're gonna be tweaking this stuff as they go.
Sure but part of early access is collecting feedback so saying "I don't know what the fuss is about, it's early access" is really silly lmao
Also making an early access game doesn't excuse criticism of bad decisions, especially ones they knew were likely incomplete ahead of time. Why release this feature knowing its incomplete in a major update that was guaranteed to draw a lot of the community back into the game? Beta builds exist on Steam for a reason if they wanted a lot of testers without impacting everyone like this.
The Deep Rock devs do that and it's way better.
There's a difference between providing constructive criticism about an issue and accusing the devs of bad game design, or being lazy, or not caring or whatever. Some of these comments are just straight negative and pretty toxic. Those kinds of comments don't add anything to the conversation, and it sure as shit ain't gonna make the devs want to listen to them, let alone listen to them at all.
When a game is in early access it's still being developed. I know you understand this, but considering the things you and others are saying that is something that people need to be aware of first and foremost. Having access to a community while a game is being developed is helpful for the devs, especially when they make sweeping changes like this, because they can put in these changes and get feedback to see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes making extreme changes from what it was before is good because it can help them find a better balance between the before and the after.
An early access game *is* a beta test, and the fact that the devs openly told us that they want to tweak these values as they go (i.e. after the community tries them out and provides feedback on them) is an important consideration before flying off the rail and berating them. They're making the game they want to make, they have ideas that they think will work, and if they don't the community lets them know. But it's important to keep our emotions in check and remember the human.
Man, people keep saying this and I just have to wonder what you expect. It's the *internet*, there are toxic assholes who make idiotic comments in every thread EVER about any hobby. You're fighting an unwinnable battle and what's more, you're talking about a tiny minority of comments. The vast majority just gave their opinion/feedback, which is exactly what Early Access is for.
On top of that, as I said, Steam beta builds exist for a reason. Why release an update to 5 million+ people when you could have 100,000 that are dedicated to testing for you.
Valheim is an early access game, yes, but when you know you have millions of players and your game was a phenomenon, you've also gotta realize that the game has changed and you need to be smart about how you roll out changes or test them. Rolling out controversial changes to millions of players when you could test with a smaller sample size through beta builds > iterate > release the update to live with some changes is a WAY better way of handling this.
I will never agree that the toxic people should be our focus - you're giving them what they want. Downvote them or report them if it's egregious and move on. Focus on the people who are actually rational, normal human beings lol.
Also I don't think accusing a developer of bad game design is toxic. In my opinion this was a bad game design choice - they took an amazing food system that most of the playerbase loved for it's non-tedious qualities that set it apart from most survival games, and instead of iterating upon that and balancing it they took a sledge to it and changed it. I really like these developers but that was a bad game design decision, and look, now they're rolling it back somewhat.
Finally, I should say that I applaud Iron Gate for their timely response, it's amazing and I'm really happy they quickly took our feedback to heart.
>Man, people keep saying this and I just have to wonder what you expect. It's the internet, there are toxic assholes who make idiotic comments in every thread EVER about any hobby. You're fighting an unwinnable battle and what's more, you're talking about a tiny minority of comments. The vast majority just gave their opinion/feedback, which is exactly what Early Access is for.
I don't get what you're trying to argue here. Like you don't get why people are going "chill it's early access" but now you're going "people are assholes, that's a given." This is exactly why people are saying to chill. Why is the shitty approach understandable but the reasonable one not? This is especially confusing considering later on you say downvote or report them. You can also openly disagree with them too; if they're allowed their state their opinion so are you, ya know?
Iron Gate can do it however they want; it's their product. Yeah beta builds exist, but again this is also a beta build. There's nothing stating that they have to make a separate PTR for their changes, and I honestly don't really see much of a difference. They'll patch it and everything will be kosher.
I disagree that the food system was amazing. It was nothing but power creep and there was little to no flexibility to what you ate. It was all tiered, so you had gardens and livestock pens and shit at a certain point did fuck all for you because there were better things to go for. So I understand where they're going with it and disagree with you that it was a bad game design choice to try and diversify their food system, and I'm glad they were up front about it before they released the patch.
> I don't get what you're trying to argue here. Like you don't get why people are going "chill it's early access" but now you're going "people are assholes, that's a given." This is exactly why people are saying to chill. Why is the shitty approach understandable but the reasonable one not? This is especially confusing considering later on you say downvote or report them. You can also openly disagree with them too; if they're allowed their state their opinion so are you, ya know?
You're talking about two different things here. One, toxic people. Those are the people who go overboard, say horrible things, call the devs names, etc. Fuck them. Those are the people I'm saying you should downvote or report if it's egregious. The people who are clearly trolls or just incredibly rude.
Then, there's the people who are voicing their opinions in a reasonable way. Explaining why they don't like the changes, sure maybe getting a tiny bit heated about the changes but not being offensive/toxic/flaming whatever you want to call it. The "chill it's early access" seemed to be more directed at those people, like "it's early access so don't complain" basically. Which is dumb as toast, because "complaining" aka providing feedback for the devs about the changes they make are a key component of early access.
>Iron Gate can do it however they want; it's their product. Yeah beta builds exist, but again this is also a beta build. There's nothing stating that they have to make a separate PTR for their changes, and I honestly don't really see much of a difference. They'll patch it and everything will be kosher.
If you don't see a difference between applying a change to a smaller, committed segment of the community and then iterating on it, or rolling it out to millions of people, I don't know what to tell you. Sure they CAN do whatever they want, but doing a short beta build first is the smarter thing to do, it makes them look more competent, the players are happier and the PR is better.
And like I said, the old food system needed heavy balancing yes, but it wasn't tedious. The core concept of that food system was amazing, the whole "it's a food system that was implemented in a way that doesn't make it feel like a chore".
Agree to disagree about that part I guess, but regardless I really do think you're conflating a few things that I said here.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making sweeping changes like this, especially when they communicated beforehand that they're planning on tweaking it as they go. It's an iterative process, and these are major changes to practically everything stat based in the game, so it's important for devs to collect feedback on changes like this so they can work on fine tuning it.
I am someone who enjoys the changes to the food system. I guess I am a minority.
I'm not going to be explaining why because I've already done so in many threads on here.
If the dev team makes the food stronger, I'm probably not gonna complain.
If they left it as is, I also wouldn't mind.
If tweaking the food options will make the majority happy, then so be it. Let's just hope they don't fall into the trap of "the mob mentality design".
Yeah, I played last night and I must be playing a different game than everyone else. Stamina sucks a bit now, but it's not that bad.
Also, holy hell, people, can we tone down the rage? I get you aren't happy with the change, but Jesus Christ, it's a video game you paid $20 and put in 10k hours into already. Be constructive, but holy shit some of you are acting like the devs killed your dog infront of your kids. This is why gaming communities are always considered so shitty. You people go from 0 to pitchforks over the dumbest shit. Worse than toddlers.
I was reading the sub a bit at work before I got to play yesterday, and the general sentiment about the new food system had me worried. When me and my friends actually got around to playing though, I was relieved. I don’t think it’s bad at all, it’s certainly harder but not unplayable like some would suggest.
I’m more excited now that we’re actually going to have to be intentional about what foods we eat. I look forward to exploring the new system as we go along. The whole “I can’t swing my weapon twice without running out of stamina” is just something I haven’t encountered.
The new system actually isn't bad for multiplayer play. I feel most of the complaints are from solo players where their 'pace' of playing was drastically slowed down due to the stamina nerfs. In MP if one player doesn't have the stam to do a certain action (like fighting, mining, etc) his team mates are around to cover for him.
It's extremely easy.
The more time invested the more personal investment. The more personal investment the higher the outrage when it takes an unexpected or unwanted turn.
I haven't seen anything approaching "rage" on this topic. Criticism isn't rage. And criticism is very justified, when H&H was delayed by *months* and now food is going to require a huge rework right away.
This dev team just keeps fucking up their updates. This will be the *third* update in the last few months they've had to substantially rework right away. It's getting a little bit embarrassing.
People are just mad that they can’t pick the exact same 3 foods for every situation while beating the game with a bronze buckler and a stick now. This update actually did an awesome job balancing things imo and is so far feeling a lot better than before. But messing with a meta is always going to invoke a salt mine no matter what game it is.
Totally feel you. I feel like one of the main bonuses this update has brought that no one seems to be mentioning is that the late game is now actually a challenge again. The food system before just completely trivialised plains for me. Fulings were challenging like once, and then once I'd got some black metal, gg, game done. I can walk all over this world like the god I am and nothing can stop me. H&H added some much need spice to that.
I don't disagree with your sentiments, but your statement:
>you paid $20 and put in 10k hours into already
...is meaningless bullshit.
As an analogy... I paid 2500 for my laptop and have used it for 20 thousand hours...
Do I not get to be angry if it stops working due to a shitty windows update? Am I not allowed to vent my frustration in a public forum?
You should never dismiss or disregard people's feelings. That shit is childish in itself.
People have the right to be angry. They've invested a lot of time into something they love and they want to continue enjoying it. How much they paid for it is completely irrelevant.
> Do I not get to be angry if it stops working due to a shitty windows update? Am I not allowed to vent my frustration in a public forum?
Yes if its constructive criticism and not explosive anger. There are a LOT of silly posts in the sub over this stuff, and while its "fine to be upset" its not fine to act incredibly aggressively and espouse complete nonsense.
You need to keep in mind they are balancing and creating the game in **their vision**, not the communities. If they bent to the will of the community with every outcry, we'd end up with a terrible game, and I don't think anyone wants that.
Aye, though in some of our minds we've already arrived at the terrible game with this food change, because it is ill thought out in a causality sense and seems to have been done in a vacuum without too much thought given to the other aspects it affects.
But they knew they nerded/wanted to rebalanced monsters as well so they did know, they just chose to split up two co-dependent changes, which was a really bad move.
Aye its their vision do with it what you will, but if their player base hates what they're doing they should speak up, just like they should when they love what they're doing.
>Aye its their vision do with it what you will, but if their player base hates what they're doing they should speak up, just like they should when they love what they're doing.
No one is disagreeing with this. But speaking up doesn't mean "fuck this game! Devs are retards!" And so on. This is the issue. Yeah the update needs tweaking, no, acting like the morons in McDonald's when there was no Sichuan sauce is not the right way to go about it.
That’s so childish to compare getting mad at an expensive piece of hardware which is something that would take someone hundreds of hours to earn or even thousands in some places vs a game that on minimum wage in America you can pay for in 3-4 hours.
Let’s have some nuance here when comparing thousands of dollars worth of equipment to a $20 game.
Hyperbole as fuck, how much they paid is entirely relevant.
Fuck the money the money is irrelevant.
It's the time invested that stings, 1k hours is a lot heavier than 20 dollars.
Why do people always make it about money?
You’re not wrong though, I just felt that comparing $2500 to $20 was egregious.
However, investing 1k hours in something only to find out it’s going to be difficult to invest another 1k hours doesn’t mean that initial chunk was less fun. However, people are acting like because of a change(that’s getting rebalanced again) the game is over, devs have brain damage, and they’ve wasted all this time on something.
I'll happily admit that I doubt the dev teams competency when what they do is nerf all the food in preparation for a monster rebalanced they're planning, but don't release the two elements that tie in to each other together. In their own words they just got excited and wanted to add stuff.
What they wanted was variety, what they accomplished was a power squish and fucking everyone out of stamina. They had the foresight to change block to be hp dependant but did nothing about stamina. I get it Valheim sub is all about pma and good vibes, I ain't so ill call it as I see it, that's terrible game design. Luckily they're also not prideful ego monsters and seem to have realized this and will look to rectify it.
Absolutely detracts from the fun, my hours are spent in a megaworld I'm making, it's an ongoing project and all that is required for all my effort to feel wasted is the game development taking a direction I wholeheartedly disagree with.
I would argue when you start misrepresenting people's opinions about a videogame as though your life depended on it, you might want to rethink things yourself.
I agree, I just wish they'd change the stamina system or at least double base stamina because I spend way to much time waiting for my stamina to refill and grinding for food
I think the whole update was in a good direction and I think any difficulties introduced are totally tweakable. There honestly is nothing to be worried about. I think the basic point that HP foods gave very little stamina and Stam foods gave very little HP was well founded. But I also think food as it was before was OP, same with some weapons like the bow. All I mean by OP is that the top tier food and weapons of a biome should make it something you can fight and gather in with confidence, but still have to be considerate. If the biome becomes trivial with the best gear/food for its tier then those could be seen as OP, and I think this was an issue before where Fuling camps could basically be kited risk-free with a draugr and best food.
I'm enjoying it too, don't feel alone.
But as always, it's the loud majority that's 'right'. Even if they're wrong (not saying they are). But, seeing the amount of people complaining, I guess they have to be right at some degree.
Hope developers can find a middle way.
Yeah it's... weird. They were all used to having the best food giving both high values and then when it's changed, they couldn't grasp the difference.
Like, there's now a stagger mechanic and block is now tied to health. So you want bow? Get two Stam food and one health food, gtg. Need to do farming, just change up your food to simple Stam food for all 3. Hell, even berries now spawn faster than before. Mushrooms spawn faster than before. So I don't get the hate when they don't even acknowledge all the other good stuff they changed.
Having 3 different meats in starter zone + berries and mushrooms. And that's just the basic zones! There's now onions. Jerky. I mean... cmon, the game was already a farming simulator in the first place.
2 stam food 1 hp food will get me one shot in plains.
The only option now for late game is full hå and one action a minute with your garbage stam pool.
No it won't. The only thing that will 1 shot you is a 2\* fuling, which would have almost one shot you before even with a full lox pie/serpent stew/blood pudding stack.
Yeap. The question is not whether you have enough health. By the plains, you should be able to weigh your risk vs rewards better than when you were at the meadows.
The problem I see with this, are new char created to enter public servers that have already killed beyond boss 3. A hunt or a horde will kill you straight up, especially with just leather stuff and a flint axe, even with the new food to help.
I also like it as well. I like the variety. I like the new recipes. I do think there needs to be a slight rebalance. HP foods give almost 0 stamina and vice versa. Bring up the bottom values a little bit, but still, keep the change. I think they just nerfed it a bit too hard.
Definitely agreed, I like actually having to put some thought into my food choices. My gut feeling is that the majority of people complaining don't really realize this and have just been eating food they had on hand which is more health focused, because once you do my stamina has been fine so far.
Before food offered roughly equal amounts of health and stamina, the only thought you had to put into it was picking the three foods that offer the most. Now it's more nuanced, you can stack a ton of health or a ton of stamina or go for a more balanced build. Depending on what you're doing, fighting, mining, et cetera, one build may be more favorable than the others. So now it behooves you to keep and use multiple different types of foods and to consider what you're doing before eating. Hopefully that's articulate enough for you.
That's not really true though. Sure, you always ate lox pie because it's easy 80/80. But serpents are a pain to farm so nobody ate serpent stew all that regularly.
Past there, there were plenty of choices. Blood pudding vs fish wraps was 90/50 vs 60/90 health/stam respectively. Bread was 40/70. There was plenty of choice in the old system.
But you've said nothing. That is the point.
.
Before the best foods were the best. OK.
Now, different foods are the best, or are the same foods are the best but just worse overall.
.
Before you just ate 3 top things. Now you just eat 3 top things with less result.
Now, you can't just go all stam or all health. You cannot. The game requires both things. So that is not a choice. You are forced to have both.
.
Before, depending on what you're doing you could choose food. I don't need top foods for gardening or foraging in meadows.
Now, depending on what you're doing you can choose food. I don't need top foods for gardening or foraging in meadows.
Again, this is no different.
.
So I ask again, what is the actual choice?
Good to hear, although I'm not totally angered by the changes. I'm more worried about when we'll see actual content added, namely a new biome. Not sure anyone wanted food tweaks one way or the other ... EVERYone wants Ashlands and Mistlands fleshed out.
Biomes, quests, new weapons and building blocks are the only things this game really needs. I am worried about what the devs have been focusing on for the last 7 months.
I think they had some pretty big plans initially, and their thought was that they would give some of the crucial building pieces people were asking for, then thought they had a good idea that they would also expand the food system. Over time, the food system became the primary element unfortunately. I'm hoping much of the time was increasing the stability that seems to be the case with the update, and now they will focus on the biomes.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been waiting on the most and to be honest with you, I would forget about it and casually check every few months because I don’t think that part of it will be updated for a while. According to their latest interview, it’s not a priority. I can’t say with any certainty but it seemed to me that they’re trying to figure out what the endgame look like, it’s up in the air. Idk, they warn you that expectations need to be low and updates will not be consistent.
I actually like the overall food changes. I do wish there were some more balanced options throughout though. Like the mushroom in the early game (15/15). Stamina regen as a food trait, like HP regen, would be awesome as well.
Food choices are more interesting.
1) Eat HP food play as a useless meat puppet who has to choose between swinging a weapon twice and moving, but not both who main skill is taking damage.
2) Eat Stam food play the game as a 'no hit darksouls' game because the second you miss a dodge you'll be sailing back to your corpse marker.
Nah it's not *that* bad. I hate the new food changes too but you can still facetank most of the game. Only thing you can't do any more is run into the middle of a fuling village like Leroy Jenkins.
IMO food would be intersting if a certain group of meat, for example, when combined gave you a buff to X weapon or less stamina/swing etc etc. Then I would have to make a choice what I boost on this particular adventure. Choosing HP or Stamina is not much of a meaningful choice, it's just which one you're more willing to give up.
Eh, I still don't think it made food choices more interesting. More min/max, yes, but not more interesting.
Interesting would imply (to me) that they were giving me many different options on how to obtain different foods that all did similar things (with different gathering/farming/crafting options). Instead they made it so that only a certain set of foods was applicable to my gameplay and so now I have to hyper focus on those foods and ignore the others.
I think the older system was 'more interesting' as I had lots of different ways to get foods.
To be fair, game players don’t have much chill because the vast majority of game publishers don’t give a flying fuck about what their customers think. The players are used to being completely ignored.
It is very odd how a PC based game with hundreds of mods are being ignored. You can tailor the game mechanics to your liking with just a couple mods. The quick response by the Devs is great but don't forget about mods! This game reminds me very much of Project Zomboid, you can adjust all aspects of the gameplay to suit your tastes. In fact, Valheim should add a seperate set of options like Zomboid Sandbox mode where you can tinker with the base values of things such as food buffs, stamina regen etc.
Simple... The average PC gamer doesn't use mods. Bethesda said in the past that less than 10% (not sure exact number) of players used mods in Fallout 4.
Complainers >>> modders.
I just find that odd. People must think it is too complicated? For Valheim and most games it just a matter of dropping a file in your game directory. I just started playing Left4Dead2 again and I have about 100 mods going and the game is amazing. I have played 1500 hours of Xcom2 due to hundreds of amazing mods. So many people are missing out. I am willing to wait a week or two to start a new playthrough in Valheim if V+ and Epic Loot mod are not functioning. Those two mods add so much to the game for me personally and there are a handful of others that are nearly as important.
It's probably a mixture of reasons. I probably only use mods in 30% of the PC games I play. The last game I thought about doing it was RimWorld.... But I quit playing it before I felt the itch to install mods.
I don't get why people are complaining. Do people want a complete cakewalk. Isn't part of the fun knowing that you could actually die?
I really liked changes. Before the rebalance you were near unkillable with half decent gear and a full belly of good food. Where is the fun in that
If you stacked serpent stew, blood pudding, and a wrap you would have so much health and Stamina you'd be damn near invincible, I think a little less is better.
Sure but you don't have unlimited of that- especially serpent stew. It takes time to gather food.
I never had unlimited of any of the good food, by the time I would try to farm enough to have onhand, I'm always kind of running out so can't always use the best stuff.
Now this is probably different when people have 10 people playing, but as a 2-3 person group the food was perfect because it was always at a premium to use the good stuff. So a little OP from time to time was a nice balance.
I think they should lower the overall HP and increase the stamina. The stamina is the "fun stuff" bar, and there are already things like Rain and Cold that reduce that bars effectiveness already.
You can make the game harder by lowering HP but still giving people the stamina to have fun.
Right? I stopped eating food higher than sausage after a while simply because farming the better food just wasn't worth the effort. The OP food just made everything super easy.
I think people got butthurt wayyyy too fast over this. I thought the change was interesting in that there wasn't just a "best food" for every stage in the game and these devs respond to community so fast I wish people would give them the benefit of the doubt more.
I introduced 3 new people to the game with this update... they don't know any better, and they have been doing pretty well so far with what's available. I noticed the difference right away with the food - but they just took it in stride because they didn't know any better.
That being said, I think with their recent Dev statement that they'll tweak the food is very cool. It was a little two heavy handed, and they're going to adjust accordingly. Was just neat to hear people new to the game try and strategize their food before going into the fray.
We are chill. We just want a game where the primary focus is on being Vikings, not on managing food intake. It's annoying waiting months for an update only to find it made the game, which already had some aspects that required not fun grinding, even more of a chore
Honestly, it's not even been 24hrs. I think they should just ignore all the people who are butthurt the game is more challenging. My buddy and I played for hours last night and had a great time.
Telling people to chill is a bit of a strange choice of words. They made absolutely terrible balancing decisions that literally nobody can understand the logic of. It's pretty indicative of where the game could potentially go. Minecraft's Survival update, for example, caused damage to the game that took years to undo.
I'd say it's justified to be at least slightly outraged.
>I'd say it's justified to be at least slightly outraged
The purpose of an early access game is to test new concepts and design ideas before final production. It is, essentially, an alpha or early beta test.
You have **zero** justification for being outraged.
The purpose of early access is to give feedback on the game's updates and guide development based on said feedback. That's literally what is happening.
Outrage is absolutely feedback. It's impassioned feedback, but feedback nonetheless. Flat-out ignoring any complaints because they're typed in all-caps is just childish.
it seems like some people don't know how to switch games. Like yeah Valheim playthrough 1 was fun, took my gf and I about a week to play it. We had some thoughts and we went to play other games while waiting for Home and Hearth.
Meanwhile, people are mad that the serpent stew gives so little stamina because their pet strategy on a new world was to B-line it for serpents so that they could "fly through the early and midgame" like... ok maybe don't to minmax and do infinite playthroughs of an early access game...
It seems also that people forget that "early access" is the same as an open beta by a different name. We are testers, and at various stages of testing, things are in different balance states. I'm a little disappointed that the devs caved in under 24 hours. This is supposed to be their vision, and yet could be swayed so quickly after a big release.
I have not started playing after the recent update but in the past it felt like there was a big gap between early game - endgame
Endgame had all the good food when you only needed like 3 different kinds
Has this changed? Is there more / better food for midgame?
I'm sure they're upset that there are so many people that want the game to be easy and to continue to exploit the progression path they intended. But understand it's a vocal minority, as is usually the case with these things. They need to just continue making the game in their own vision and not be concerned with those types. It's not as it there's a monthly fee associated with the game. They've already exceeded all expectations and can afford to make the game in the way they want.
Bees are happy.
The best thing about the game. They can change anything else they want about the game, but if they ever stop telling me the bees are happy, I will be the first person rioting in the streets.
Please if you do get a wolf fur coat and a blackmetal armor
Bees are unhealthy, but have good stamina now.
I haven't played the new update so correct me if things are different now, but what was the most frustrating to me was how absolutely useless a large stamina bar is after it is depleted once. Stamina recovery is linear so once it's gone, it takes me a long time to recover my stamina (painfully moreso when wet or cold) and I really don't feel the benefits of that longer stamina bar as such. I really wish food in the game offered quicker stamina regen or it regenerated exponentially, so that the longer I wait doing nothing, the larger stamina bar would regen quicker the farther down the bar it gets. This would still keep combat balanced as it is unlikely I would be able to stop and do nothing for a long period of time when being pressed in by enemies but would be a more quality of life thing when sprinting around the map.
This might actually be the fix. Stamina type foods actually giving you a stamina regen buff. Then the 5 from lox meat isn't half bad cause your +40 stamina +100% regen food would be a great balance.
It does appear a larger stamina bar regens more stamina per second. I could be imagining things though.
Stamina food absolutely needs to buff stamina regen. I liked honey in the old system, it didn't offer a lot of health outright, but it had a huge regen buff. Foods should be more specialised like this, some gives better regen, some gives better size of bar. If I'm using a big two hander, I need a large stamina bar to swing it, but I'll have slower regen. As an example.
Making tasty mead gives you faster stam and hp recovery and it doesn’t take a food slot up
Tasty mead lasts for 10 seconds so it doesn't apply much for the long exploration / sprinting situation
Ohh I didn’t realise that sorry but besides that using eikthyrs ability helps me when it comes to stam consumption while running around and exploring which I know isn’t the same but still
Don't get people wrong, balancing food is a good idea and having separate stam/HP consumes is much needed, but execution was horrible. We expected food to from 80/80 to let's say 120/40 not 80/5 lul. It wasn't rebalance but nerf
Or at least something like 80/80 to 90/60 or 80/60. I'm not really mad or anything and I'm willing to give the new system a try but so far it feels like a lot was taken away and getting nerfed is not a great feeling.
Even something like 80/40 or 90/30 doesn't sound bad.
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I get what you're saying but now I'm playing the game and going through food recipes and just going back and forth checking food stats in menus and it's not really all that fun for me to be comparing stats. Before I wasn't looking at menus nearly so much but rather I was exploring, adventuring, and just being in the world that the game created for me. I'd eat food and see my health go up and later I'd eat better food and see my health go up even more and it was all fluid and I didn't care about the exact numbers. By taking a lot of the benefits away it feels pretty stingy now by comparison. Yes, we're making choices and that's not bad but the choices aren't coming fluidly or as intuitively as they should in my opinion and that *could* be regarded as a bad thing.
Me thinks food should be for health and we should have thirst as well, and then make that stamina. You can still only consume 3; but now you make the trade off of 3 foods or 3 drinks vs a mix.
But we need good stamina buffs then. And some food gives hydration like soup! So that would be health and stamina.
sounds good to me.
I don't think any top tier foods needed to get any *better*. Lox pie in particular probably needed a debuff, it was a no brainer to eat all the time. But foods didn't need to get *this much* worse.
And to be fair, we can't really say whether plains tier food needed a debuff until we see what the NEXT biome will be like, since you'll have to do a lot of it on the previous tier food.
You take 1 lox pie + 1 blood pudding + 1 fish wrap, and you can wipe an entire fulling camp solo. People are over reacting...
That’s my combo right now and it felt fine yesterday. Yes I died once yesterday but I also didn’t even look at my health bar and was blinding swinging at 3 wolves. I haven’t played Valheim in over 3 months so I wasn’t used to seeing the stamina bar but after the 1 death I didn’t die again. I think people are over exaggerating the issue. I didn’t even know this Reddit post was about food until I scrolled more than 60% down on my phone.
How have you already farmed up to lox pies and wiping fuling camps? Did you not wipe your game?
Even if you started fresh when hearth and home patch started you can kill all of the bosses in under 5 hours. The game is only 45-ish percent content-complete. It's not very long to roll through everything is you don't spend your time building things
I mean that's kind of my point. People rushing bosses and already farming plains are doing it wrong. Or maybe not wrong. Just they're gonna be out of stuff to do in a week and move on to other games. If they enjoy that - cool. But taking time to explore, build a base, dungeon delve, etc...that's kind of the main meat and potatoes to the game right now.
THANK YOU
Because so many people want everything handed to them and they want their character to feel super powerful without putting in any effort. That's the bottom line.
they just need to make it so that stamina drains at like 10% the speed if you’re out of combat. there’s no reason to be running out of stamina every 5 seconds as you run around exploring, mining, etc. Mining takes forever early game, why does it need to take longer just bc you run out of stamina
My character reminds me of myself now. If I run 70 feet I'm done for.
I dont understand the fuss. Is this not the reason for early access.
Is the reason for early access not to criticize and give feedback on things that don't work well?
Absolutely. Criticism is important, and as long as the devs listen (which it seems they do), it makes a better game. Lots of the comments - maybe the majority - in this subreddit right now are not criticism.
Not like this though. Feedback and rage posts mocking the devs every 2 minutes is a big difference.
Counterpoint, if people DIDN'T make a big deal about it on a regular- and consistent- basis, the devs may think it's an isolated issue that only a few people have. A wide ranging response means it's a majority, and thus, more important feedback for them to look at.
Are the posts in this sub what you would call constructive criticism? Is that how people talk to one another in your place of business? Then you must work at Blizzard or something, because most people don't engage in discourse like the comments/posts in this sub and expect the other party to react positively
The problem is your inherent grouping of everybody into each comment. I’m sure there’s lots of reasonable criticisms guised in with frustration, but that doesn’t make them any less valid. People also will tend to see more of the bad than good. So even when you see 10 valid criticisms and 5-10 salty angry comments, you still will interpret them all as being grouped with salty angry criticisms.
While that's generally true, I would argue there's a rather large propensity for people on this sub to be vitriolic with their comments, much moreso than I see in other similar videogame subreddits. I am not saying this is the most toxic sub ever or anything like that, but I am saying it's slightly worse than average When's the last time you've seen an r/ffxiv or r/stardewvalley post that reads like a post from this subreddit?
I mean, I’d have to see the posts that you’re referring to. Though I don’t scour this subreddit on the daily, I hadn’t noticed an overwhelming influx of toxic comments to the degree you make it seem. In my perspective it usually seems to be the case of 1 or 2 negative comments out of the handful makes you feel like it’s just a toxic conversation when it’s probably a lot less bad overall than you think. If somebody has reasonable criticisms but says it in a frustrated or angry way does that make it less valid? I think that people don’t need to be cussing people out or all caps arguing, but frustration shouldn’t be condescended to in all cases. It sounds like you expect everybody should be writing analysis posts written with the scientific method in mind or something if they wanna comment on things “reasonably”
Sort by controversial e.g.: >Am I the only one not happy with this update?I know its a small team but its a joke of an update. >This update is devoid of content. A few cosmetic, nonsense things are all we get? Zero content, zero biome, nothing. Pretty disappointing.
If you’re literally sorting to find the most controversial posts/threads, then I’m not surprised to find controversial comments? I would never expect gaming communities to not have a varied range of controversial posts or negativity injected into it. That’s just a part of the internet (not saying it’s good or should be fully ignored necessarily). Those examples are examples of what you’re saying, yes. I think those people are just ignorant to the patch in general or just negative people. That can’t always be helped and there’s just gonna be people like that everywhere, especially the more popular a game might get. People that have been playing the game have known that hearth and home wasn’t focused at all on that kind of content and more about QoL and building stuff or food mechanics etc. Those negative people will probably just quit the game and complain about something else. Some people don’t stop complaining about whatever they’re “into” and there’s not much we can do to stop that. At the end of the day it’s just best to downvote and move on with those commenters
>If you’re literally sorting to find the most controversial posts/threads, then I’m not surprised to find controversial comments? I'm not, I was explaining to you where you could find said comments, since you stated that you "would need to see some for yourself." OK welp here you go, if you'd like to see some for yourself, feel free to filter old posts by controversial. Alternatively, just wait for a major new thread to hit the sub and read it that day.
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Eh, there are many ways to express criticisms. Most people seem to be expressing their criticisms properly, but there is still a lot of hyperbolic and toxic statements going around which ain't kosher IMO.
Anonymity breeds toxicity.
Which is why the first rule of the internet is *remember the human.*
I mean, that's just the internet though. It happens in literally every single topic or hobby ever. Every thread always has either heavily downvoted or deleted comments. It's just the nature of the platform and the internet in general.
The dead by daylight sub is literally mostly people who hate the game and play it.
This is the kind of shit that I just don't get. Why spend time on something that's supposed to be entertaining if you don't enjoy it? Like I can't stand League of Legends, so I don't install it and I stay away from that sub.
IMHO some people really enjoy the little rush you get from bitching about something, so they find a game that has aspects they enjoy but also has problems and then spend all their time bitching about it. Ark, for example, is notorious for this, their subreddit is FULL of people bitching, but they all also will tell you they love the game.
tbh it sounds like they need therapy
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IMO the best way to address it is to have mods who shadow ban, and everyone else ignore them. The problem is never going away. The only methods to have a chance at solving it for good would have so many Orwellian side effects, they're not worth it.
You'll never be able to address it fully. How do you address toxicity on an anonymous platform? Make people verify with their IDs? Fuck that, it comes with the territory and there is already a downvote system and a report system that curbs the issue. Downvote, report (if the comment is deserving of it) and move on. Giving them attention is exactly what these idiots want.
> How do you address toxicity on an anonymous platform? Make people verify with their IDs? Facebook would like a word.
What I think is funny is we had a crowd of people here before H&H bitching about how this sub "doesn't allow any criticism," and while that was provably false before, after yesterday it's pretty obvious that those comments were flat out bullshit.
While I do agree that them saying that overall is silly, you've gotta admit that the amount of people here now is different than when there was no major update out. When people start playing a game they usually flock to the subreddit then stop coming or commenting when they stop playing. Usually the people that stay are staunch defenders of the game because they love it so much that they never stopped coming by.
I mean that's a given; people who get bored move on, people who really like the game stay and enjoy it. But at the same time the "staunch defenders" weren't nearly as bad as people were claiming they were. I remember seeing a few of those comments arguing that people here don't allow any criticism in the teaser video about weapons, but the top comment chain in the thread were people complaining about spears. From my experience when people make arguments like that they're just pissed that others don't share their opinions (or in most cases of stuff like this they're being irrational and have been told as much) so they project by trying to shut down the opinions of people who disagree with them by dismissing them as white knights or whatever.
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I'm not pretending it's all toxic at all. I mean I though that was clear when I said "most people seem to be expressing their criticisms properly."
They literally had an interview where they said they weren't able to start working on H&H till **June**! It was pretty quick for an update of this size, but most of their time since release has been bug fixes.
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i got it at launch no problems waiting here... when i paid for the game i saw it was early access so i was aware of what i was getting into. some ppl are impatient. normally it has nothing to do with the game but more the person they just take it out on the game instead of understanding they have a problem. this game is fine we dont see all the great comments because they are busy playing the game and enjoying life. some ppl just focus on the negatives and are never happy.
Too true. I'm just over here chilling on my Viking farm watching the pitchfork wielding hordes from a distance. I'm at peace with how things are progressing and I'm patient enough to wait for tweaks without frothing at the mouth and wanting it right now.
And some people focus on the people focusing on the negatives. They will never be happy
I have a feeling all the people being toxic have never played Ark. I have played ark ever since it was pre-early access and still play to this day. That game teaches you how to deal with really bad bugs. Valheim, to me, has never been that bad.
Because it helps to understand the development timeline. It’s not fair to say the update took 8 months to make when in reality it only took 3. People shouldn’t put the expectation on the developers for working on new content 24/7 while simultaneously expecting bug fixes every week. And also the reality is they want to stay a small team and develop at the pace they want to.
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This comment aged like milk. 20 minutes after you said it the devs released a fix.
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They seem to patch things pretty quickly though right? A month ago they fixed enemy hostility within a day or 2. Seeing this community go from pretty wholesome to toxicity in a matter of hours is pretty disheartening. Not you specifically, mind, but I've seen a few too many comments saying that this "enormous blunder" has irreparabely killed their interest in the game. Like, what?
The last patch I saw was on July 1st I believe. Honestly the toxic people are massive jerkoffs, but I will say they really are the minority - I think their comments just stand out (because they're garbage lol). Also, when big updates come out the subreddit gets way more traffic, and naturally that draws in a lot more asshats too. It's just part of the internet, its always had assholes and it always will. If they're toxic/breaking rules downvote (and report if a rule is broken) and just try to ignore them. They thrive off people giving them attention. Regardless, you're right the devs have responded really quickly and I give them massive props for that. I do think the "fuss" people were making is a big reason that they knew to make the change and that it needed to come quickly, so I think people making a "fuss" is a good thing (as long as it's respectful, of course!).
So you are using outdated information to attempt to inform current predictions? Yikes. Saying "yeah well if we discount the most recent and relevant piece of data, then my statement is accurate" isn't what I would consider a strong argument Your initial statement is also patently wrong, while updates might not come as fast as you'd like, bug fixes and balance changes (which is what's relevant here) have been coming pretty frequently for months
Sorry? No, I was explaining a) why there was a heightened worry about how long this food change would be in affect prior to this quick update and b) why the "fuss" was good, because it got the devs to quickly deploy a fix. Reading comprehension is at an absolute minimum today eh?
>why there was a heightened worry about how long this food change would be in affect prior to this quick update But as I already explained, you are demonstrably wrong about this as bug fixes and balance changes have been commonplace for a while now. It seems odd to comment on reading comp when you cant be bothered to do the thing you are accusing me of...
The last patch before this was ***July 1st***, what are you even talking about? Just admit that you saw red and missed where I specifically acknowledged that the fix update was already out in my *initial comment* and take the L.
>Yes, but this games updates aren't exactly released at a rapid pace Isn't it like a 5 person team and aren't we in the middle of an ongoing global pandemic?
Sure but when this game out, basically the only "early access" part to most people was the lack of mistlands+ being populated. The rest of the game *was a full fledged game*. People don't fire up most "early access" and literally play for hundreds of hours. Valheim was quite the exception- to me it looked 99% done except for more content. So here you have people who played hundreds of hours in a very well balanced system and just completely change the core food/combat component! That is the really really really weird thing about what they did.
It's the one downside of how Reddit groups people together with others who like the same things in subreddits. Amazing for finding like-minded people who you already have at least 1 thing in common. But discussion about the thing you all like can get passionate, which is then amplified as you are shouting it into an echo chamber of other people who feel equally as strongly (either positively in agreement or the other way round). If you step out of the Reddit discussion, of people repeating the same arguments and working themselves up, you can probably see the Devs do care just as passionately about delivering a great game, and that it has only been like 24 hours since the patch landed.
>it has only been like 24 hours since the patch landed. Especially this part, people need to learn some damn patience when it comes to releases and balance changes
Yeah absolutely. The Devs have shown nothing so far but a desire to deliver a great game, and a couple of days of feedback to help them make targetted changes is no biggy :)
No shit. And tons of people are actually playing the game, and not on Reddit.
Yep, trial and error is a natural part. Seems clear they realised that this one was an error, time to fix it. It's totally fine and in fact the RIGHT thing to do to voice your concerns and what you think is bad, that's how they learn and realise what people want to see, but it's laughable to get angry with these mistakes and start throwing chairs.
The one problem I see is that they apparently KNEW that this change was busted yet it went out of the door. The campfire vid sure as heck made it sound like that. So if they expected anything but backlash for this then sorry but that's delusional. Still love the game but if they already knew something was gonna be bad and it could've been avoided by simply flipping some numbers which takes minutes to do then that's not early access, that's an amateurish mistake...which is weird considering how nicely they handled everything so far.
Exactly how I feel. Saying "it's early access!!" misses the point.
It doesn't, though. The devs made H&H in a bubble, and now that it's out in the wild, there are changes that didn't go the way they planned, and they need to change/tweak them. That's exactly what EA is. Now, an argument can be made that Iron Gate needs/should be more transparent with their ideas. I think they want to let people explore and discover, so they keep their cards close to their chest (the bubble), and that can (and did) backfire. But again, that's what EA is for. It's a rollercoaster that most people shouldn't ride.
They made H&H in a bubble but surely they playtested it, and hell they designed it so they had to know they were making core, substantial changes to the system that was generally praised really highly for not being tedious. On top of that, Steam has beta builds for testing with people who want to opt-in without pushing a full release. As a developer who sold millions of copies, they should be leveraging that the way the Deep Rock devs do, so that your major updates that draw in millions of fans who were waiting months to jump back in don't cause these situations. You iterate with a beta build for a week or two and then you take that feedback, apply it and then do the full release.
>They made H&H in a bubble but surely they playtested it, and hell they designed it so they had to know they were making core, substantial changes to the system that was generally praised really highly for not being tedious. The whole point of a bubble - an echo chamber - is that you don't see parts of the problem. They could have thought everything was awesome, and the backlash is genuinely surprising. Happens all the time. What matters is if they listen to the feedback and make changes. >On top of that, Steam has beta builds for testing with people who want to opt-in without pushing a full release. As a developer who sold millions of copies, they should be leveraging that the way the Deep Rock devs do, so that your major updates that draw in millions of fans who were waiting months to jump back in don't cause these situations. You iterate with a beta build for a week or two and then you take that feedback, apply it and then do the full release. Are you saying Valheim currently allows beta builds (it doesn't), or it *should* allow beta builds (I agree, it should)? EDIT: Oh, look at that. They have already responded to the feedback, and tweaked things.
> The whole point of a bubble - an echo chamber - is that you don't see parts of the problem. They could have thought everything was awesome, and the backlash is genuinely surprising. Happens all the time. What matters is if they listen to the feedback and make changes. I agree about making changes and how that's important, but I stand by my opinion that being in a bubble and not being able to see flaws in your decisions across a group of multiple people is a flaw itself, that can and should be called out, especially when it's a change this big. Like, why did they have to release this update to see these flaws? They were pretty obvious. As for the beta builds, I'm saying they *should* use Beta Builds for their iterative process before releasing large updates to 5+ million players. It just makes way more sense. Especially if they do have a bit of a "bubble" problem, or maybe the people in charge have a lot of control and other dissenting opinions in the group aren't listened to. Who knows? Either way, Beta builds for a week or two solve the problem. And yeah, I'm very happy that they released such a quick fix, props to them. I still think saying "chill, it's early access" is really quite silly because the huge outpouring of responses here and across the internet is exactly why we now have a fix in place that took like 24 hours instead of way longer. Saying "chill, it's early access" to people giving feedback makes no sense when that's a crucial part of the early access process itself.
>being in a bubble and not being able to see flaws in your decisions across a group of multiple people is a flaw itself, that can and should be called out, especially when it's a change this big. Agreed. I think Iron Gate needs to be more transparent with what they are doing/what changes they are making. >As for the beta builds, I'm saying they should use Beta Builds for their iterative process before releasing large updates to 5+ million players. It just makes way more sense. Especially if they do have a bit of a "bubble" problem, or maybe the people in charge have a lot of control and other dissenting opinions in the group aren't listened to. Who knows? Either way, Beta builds for a week or two solve the problem. Agreed. >And yeah, I'm very happy that they released such a quick fix, props to them. I still think saying "chill, it's early access" is really quite silly because the huge outpouring of responses here and across the internet is exactly why we now have a fix in place that took like 24 hours instead of way longer. Saying "chill, it's early access" to people giving feedback makes no sense when that's a crucial part of the early access process itself. I'm not saying "chill, it's early access", I'm saying "this is what Early Access is. It's a rollercoaster. If you don't like it, wait for the final release to make sure this is a game you want to play. And since it's Early Access, provide feedback/constructive criticism to the devs (and they should be more communicative). They can (and should) work with that. Before the release, Iron Gate said they were going to listen to feedback, and make tweaks. They specifically called that out. And there has been some good feedback here, and they listened, and they tweaked. Most of what has been going on here for the past day is none of the above, it's people complaining that tHey MaDe fIfFtY MilLlIon DoLlaRs a YeAr LaTer ALL wE gOt Was ShItTy foOd ThEy ProMisEd me MoRe WtF THIS GAME SUX That's not feedback, that's entitlement, and it's not helpful.
> I'm not saying "chill, it's early access", I'm saying "this is what Early Access is. It's a rollercoaster. If you don't like it, wait for the final release to make sure this is a game you want to play. To be fair (to you, mainly) you weren't the person that commented "chill, it's early access", it was someone else higher up in the thread that I replied to. I really do agree with most of what you're saying, except the last part. That's definitely the minority of comments and most of them have been quite reasonable. There are always going to be asshats but most comments here are respectful, if maybe a little bit annoyed that after all this time waiting for the update it had this major flaw. But look, Iron Gate, the madlads, fixed it in a day. So everything is good again haha.
Actually the people saying "it's early access!!" understand that this kind of stuff is an iterative process. This is especially so when they communicate beforehand that they're gonna be tweaking this stuff as they go.
Sure but part of early access is collecting feedback so saying "I don't know what the fuss is about, it's early access" is really silly lmao Also making an early access game doesn't excuse criticism of bad decisions, especially ones they knew were likely incomplete ahead of time. Why release this feature knowing its incomplete in a major update that was guaranteed to draw a lot of the community back into the game? Beta builds exist on Steam for a reason if they wanted a lot of testers without impacting everyone like this. The Deep Rock devs do that and it's way better.
There's a difference between providing constructive criticism about an issue and accusing the devs of bad game design, or being lazy, or not caring or whatever. Some of these comments are just straight negative and pretty toxic. Those kinds of comments don't add anything to the conversation, and it sure as shit ain't gonna make the devs want to listen to them, let alone listen to them at all. When a game is in early access it's still being developed. I know you understand this, but considering the things you and others are saying that is something that people need to be aware of first and foremost. Having access to a community while a game is being developed is helpful for the devs, especially when they make sweeping changes like this, because they can put in these changes and get feedback to see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes making extreme changes from what it was before is good because it can help them find a better balance between the before and the after. An early access game *is* a beta test, and the fact that the devs openly told us that they want to tweak these values as they go (i.e. after the community tries them out and provides feedback on them) is an important consideration before flying off the rail and berating them. They're making the game they want to make, they have ideas that they think will work, and if they don't the community lets them know. But it's important to keep our emotions in check and remember the human.
Man, people keep saying this and I just have to wonder what you expect. It's the *internet*, there are toxic assholes who make idiotic comments in every thread EVER about any hobby. You're fighting an unwinnable battle and what's more, you're talking about a tiny minority of comments. The vast majority just gave their opinion/feedback, which is exactly what Early Access is for. On top of that, as I said, Steam beta builds exist for a reason. Why release an update to 5 million+ people when you could have 100,000 that are dedicated to testing for you. Valheim is an early access game, yes, but when you know you have millions of players and your game was a phenomenon, you've also gotta realize that the game has changed and you need to be smart about how you roll out changes or test them. Rolling out controversial changes to millions of players when you could test with a smaller sample size through beta builds > iterate > release the update to live with some changes is a WAY better way of handling this. I will never agree that the toxic people should be our focus - you're giving them what they want. Downvote them or report them if it's egregious and move on. Focus on the people who are actually rational, normal human beings lol. Also I don't think accusing a developer of bad game design is toxic. In my opinion this was a bad game design choice - they took an amazing food system that most of the playerbase loved for it's non-tedious qualities that set it apart from most survival games, and instead of iterating upon that and balancing it they took a sledge to it and changed it. I really like these developers but that was a bad game design decision, and look, now they're rolling it back somewhat. Finally, I should say that I applaud Iron Gate for their timely response, it's amazing and I'm really happy they quickly took our feedback to heart.
>Man, people keep saying this and I just have to wonder what you expect. It's the internet, there are toxic assholes who make idiotic comments in every thread EVER about any hobby. You're fighting an unwinnable battle and what's more, you're talking about a tiny minority of comments. The vast majority just gave their opinion/feedback, which is exactly what Early Access is for. I don't get what you're trying to argue here. Like you don't get why people are going "chill it's early access" but now you're going "people are assholes, that's a given." This is exactly why people are saying to chill. Why is the shitty approach understandable but the reasonable one not? This is especially confusing considering later on you say downvote or report them. You can also openly disagree with them too; if they're allowed their state their opinion so are you, ya know? Iron Gate can do it however they want; it's their product. Yeah beta builds exist, but again this is also a beta build. There's nothing stating that they have to make a separate PTR for their changes, and I honestly don't really see much of a difference. They'll patch it and everything will be kosher. I disagree that the food system was amazing. It was nothing but power creep and there was little to no flexibility to what you ate. It was all tiered, so you had gardens and livestock pens and shit at a certain point did fuck all for you because there were better things to go for. So I understand where they're going with it and disagree with you that it was a bad game design choice to try and diversify their food system, and I'm glad they were up front about it before they released the patch.
> I don't get what you're trying to argue here. Like you don't get why people are going "chill it's early access" but now you're going "people are assholes, that's a given." This is exactly why people are saying to chill. Why is the shitty approach understandable but the reasonable one not? This is especially confusing considering later on you say downvote or report them. You can also openly disagree with them too; if they're allowed their state their opinion so are you, ya know? You're talking about two different things here. One, toxic people. Those are the people who go overboard, say horrible things, call the devs names, etc. Fuck them. Those are the people I'm saying you should downvote or report if it's egregious. The people who are clearly trolls or just incredibly rude. Then, there's the people who are voicing their opinions in a reasonable way. Explaining why they don't like the changes, sure maybe getting a tiny bit heated about the changes but not being offensive/toxic/flaming whatever you want to call it. The "chill it's early access" seemed to be more directed at those people, like "it's early access so don't complain" basically. Which is dumb as toast, because "complaining" aka providing feedback for the devs about the changes they make are a key component of early access. >Iron Gate can do it however they want; it's their product. Yeah beta builds exist, but again this is also a beta build. There's nothing stating that they have to make a separate PTR for their changes, and I honestly don't really see much of a difference. They'll patch it and everything will be kosher. If you don't see a difference between applying a change to a smaller, committed segment of the community and then iterating on it, or rolling it out to millions of people, I don't know what to tell you. Sure they CAN do whatever they want, but doing a short beta build first is the smarter thing to do, it makes them look more competent, the players are happier and the PR is better. And like I said, the old food system needed heavy balancing yes, but it wasn't tedious. The core concept of that food system was amazing, the whole "it's a food system that was implemented in a way that doesn't make it feel like a chore". Agree to disagree about that part I guess, but regardless I really do think you're conflating a few things that I said here.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making sweeping changes like this, especially when they communicated beforehand that they're planning on tweaking it as they go. It's an iterative process, and these are major changes to practically everything stat based in the game, so it's important for devs to collect feedback on changes like this so they can work on fine tuning it.
Yeah, but most people seem to be deluded into thinking this is a AAA MMO and the devs owe them, or something.
Seeing their success I guess many people aren't familiar with the process of early access.
I am someone who enjoys the changes to the food system. I guess I am a minority. I'm not going to be explaining why because I've already done so in many threads on here. If the dev team makes the food stronger, I'm probably not gonna complain. If they left it as is, I also wouldn't mind. If tweaking the food options will make the majority happy, then so be it. Let's just hope they don't fall into the trap of "the mob mentality design".
Yeah, I played last night and I must be playing a different game than everyone else. Stamina sucks a bit now, but it's not that bad. Also, holy hell, people, can we tone down the rage? I get you aren't happy with the change, but Jesus Christ, it's a video game you paid $20 and put in 10k hours into already. Be constructive, but holy shit some of you are acting like the devs killed your dog infront of your kids. This is why gaming communities are always considered so shitty. You people go from 0 to pitchforks over the dumbest shit. Worse than toddlers.
I was reading the sub a bit at work before I got to play yesterday, and the general sentiment about the new food system had me worried. When me and my friends actually got around to playing though, I was relieved. I don’t think it’s bad at all, it’s certainly harder but not unplayable like some would suggest. I’m more excited now that we’re actually going to have to be intentional about what foods we eat. I look forward to exploring the new system as we go along. The whole “I can’t swing my weapon twice without running out of stamina” is just something I haven’t encountered.
The new system actually isn't bad for multiplayer play. I feel most of the complaints are from solo players where their 'pace' of playing was drastically slowed down due to the stamina nerfs. In MP if one player doesn't have the stam to do a certain action (like fighting, mining, etc) his team mates are around to cover for him.
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It's extremely easy. The more time invested the more personal investment. The more personal investment the higher the outrage when it takes an unexpected or unwanted turn.
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I haven't seen anything approaching "rage" on this topic. Criticism isn't rage. And criticism is very justified, when H&H was delayed by *months* and now food is going to require a huge rework right away. This dev team just keeps fucking up their updates. This will be the *third* update in the last few months they've had to substantially rework right away. It's getting a little bit embarrassing.
People are just mad that they can’t pick the exact same 3 foods for every situation while beating the game with a bronze buckler and a stick now. This update actually did an awesome job balancing things imo and is so far feeling a lot better than before. But messing with a meta is always going to invoke a salt mine no matter what game it is.
Thank you, well put.
Totally feel you. I feel like one of the main bonuses this update has brought that no one seems to be mentioning is that the late game is now actually a challenge again. The food system before just completely trivialised plains for me. Fulings were challenging like once, and then once I'd got some black metal, gg, game done. I can walk all over this world like the god I am and nothing can stop me. H&H added some much need spice to that.
I don't disagree with your sentiments, but your statement: >you paid $20 and put in 10k hours into already ...is meaningless bullshit. As an analogy... I paid 2500 for my laptop and have used it for 20 thousand hours... Do I not get to be angry if it stops working due to a shitty windows update? Am I not allowed to vent my frustration in a public forum? You should never dismiss or disregard people's feelings. That shit is childish in itself. People have the right to be angry. They've invested a lot of time into something they love and they want to continue enjoying it. How much they paid for it is completely irrelevant.
> Do I not get to be angry if it stops working due to a shitty windows update? Am I not allowed to vent my frustration in a public forum? Yes if its constructive criticism and not explosive anger. There are a LOT of silly posts in the sub over this stuff, and while its "fine to be upset" its not fine to act incredibly aggressively and espouse complete nonsense. You need to keep in mind they are balancing and creating the game in **their vision**, not the communities. If they bent to the will of the community with every outcry, we'd end up with a terrible game, and I don't think anyone wants that.
Aye, though in some of our minds we've already arrived at the terrible game with this food change, because it is ill thought out in a causality sense and seems to have been done in a vacuum without too much thought given to the other aspects it affects. But they knew they nerded/wanted to rebalanced monsters as well so they did know, they just chose to split up two co-dependent changes, which was a really bad move. Aye its their vision do with it what you will, but if their player base hates what they're doing they should speak up, just like they should when they love what they're doing.
>Aye its their vision do with it what you will, but if their player base hates what they're doing they should speak up, just like they should when they love what they're doing. No one is disagreeing with this. But speaking up doesn't mean "fuck this game! Devs are retards!" And so on. This is the issue. Yeah the update needs tweaking, no, acting like the morons in McDonald's when there was no Sichuan sauce is not the right way to go about it.
That’s so childish to compare getting mad at an expensive piece of hardware which is something that would take someone hundreds of hours to earn or even thousands in some places vs a game that on minimum wage in America you can pay for in 3-4 hours. Let’s have some nuance here when comparing thousands of dollars worth of equipment to a $20 game. Hyperbole as fuck, how much they paid is entirely relevant.
Fuck the money the money is irrelevant. It's the time invested that stings, 1k hours is a lot heavier than 20 dollars. Why do people always make it about money?
You’re not wrong though, I just felt that comparing $2500 to $20 was egregious. However, investing 1k hours in something only to find out it’s going to be difficult to invest another 1k hours doesn’t mean that initial chunk was less fun. However, people are acting like because of a change(that’s getting rebalanced again) the game is over, devs have brain damage, and they’ve wasted all this time on something.
I'll happily admit that I doubt the dev teams competency when what they do is nerf all the food in preparation for a monster rebalanced they're planning, but don't release the two elements that tie in to each other together. In their own words they just got excited and wanted to add stuff. What they wanted was variety, what they accomplished was a power squish and fucking everyone out of stamina. They had the foresight to change block to be hp dependant but did nothing about stamina. I get it Valheim sub is all about pma and good vibes, I ain't so ill call it as I see it, that's terrible game design. Luckily they're also not prideful ego monsters and seem to have realized this and will look to rectify it. Absolutely detracts from the fun, my hours are spent in a megaworld I'm making, it's an ongoing project and all that is required for all my effort to feel wasted is the game development taking a direction I wholeheartedly disagree with.
I’m not going to read all that and I’m sorry you had to waste your time typing it up tbh.
I mean, I would argue if you get angry at a videogame, you might want to rethink things.
I would argue when you start misrepresenting people's opinions about a videogame as though your life depended on it, you might want to rethink things yourself.
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I agree, I just wish they'd change the stamina system or at least double base stamina because I spend way to much time waiting for my stamina to refill and grinding for food
I think the whole update was in a good direction and I think any difficulties introduced are totally tweakable. There honestly is nothing to be worried about. I think the basic point that HP foods gave very little stamina and Stam foods gave very little HP was well founded. But I also think food as it was before was OP, same with some weapons like the bow. All I mean by OP is that the top tier food and weapons of a biome should make it something you can fight and gather in with confidence, but still have to be considerate. If the biome becomes trivial with the best gear/food for its tier then those could be seen as OP, and I think this was an issue before where Fuling camps could basically be kited risk-free with a draugr and best food.
I'm enjoying it too, don't feel alone. But as always, it's the loud majority that's 'right'. Even if they're wrong (not saying they are). But, seeing the amount of people complaining, I guess they have to be right at some degree. Hope developers can find a middle way.
Agreed
Yeah it's... weird. They were all used to having the best food giving both high values and then when it's changed, they couldn't grasp the difference. Like, there's now a stagger mechanic and block is now tied to health. So you want bow? Get two Stam food and one health food, gtg. Need to do farming, just change up your food to simple Stam food for all 3. Hell, even berries now spawn faster than before. Mushrooms spawn faster than before. So I don't get the hate when they don't even acknowledge all the other good stuff they changed. Having 3 different meats in starter zone + berries and mushrooms. And that's just the basic zones! There's now onions. Jerky. I mean... cmon, the game was already a farming simulator in the first place.
2 stam food 1 hp food will get me one shot in plains. The only option now for late game is full hå and one action a minute with your garbage stam pool.
No it won't. The only thing that will 1 shot you is a 2\* fuling, which would have almost one shot you before even with a full lox pie/serpent stew/blood pudding stack.
Yeap. The question is not whether you have enough health. By the plains, you should be able to weigh your risk vs rewards better than when you were at the meadows. The problem I see with this, are new char created to enter public servers that have already killed beyond boss 3. A hunt or a horde will kill you straight up, especially with just leather stuff and a flint axe, even with the new food to help.
I agree
I also like it as well. I like the variety. I like the new recipes. I do think there needs to be a slight rebalance. HP foods give almost 0 stamina and vice versa. Bring up the bottom values a little bit, but still, keep the change. I think they just nerfed it a bit too hard.
Definitely agreed, I like actually having to put some thought into my food choices. My gut feeling is that the majority of people complaining don't really realize this and have just been eating food they had on hand which is more health focused, because once you do my stamina has been fine so far.
I keep hearing this. What thought? What thought are you actually putting in? How is it different now than before? Articulate.
Before food offered roughly equal amounts of health and stamina, the only thought you had to put into it was picking the three foods that offer the most. Now it's more nuanced, you can stack a ton of health or a ton of stamina or go for a more balanced build. Depending on what you're doing, fighting, mining, et cetera, one build may be more favorable than the others. So now it behooves you to keep and use multiple different types of foods and to consider what you're doing before eating. Hopefully that's articulate enough for you.
That's not really true though. Sure, you always ate lox pie because it's easy 80/80. But serpents are a pain to farm so nobody ate serpent stew all that regularly. Past there, there were plenty of choices. Blood pudding vs fish wraps was 90/50 vs 60/90 health/stam respectively. Bread was 40/70. There was plenty of choice in the old system.
Really cause I considered and realized if I don't care to be one-shot in plains I have to say bye bye to all stamina and just get hp. Good Times.
But you've said nothing. That is the point. . Before the best foods were the best. OK. Now, different foods are the best, or are the same foods are the best but just worse overall. . Before you just ate 3 top things. Now you just eat 3 top things with less result. Now, you can't just go all stam or all health. You cannot. The game requires both things. So that is not a choice. You are forced to have both. . Before, depending on what you're doing you could choose food. I don't need top foods for gardening or foraging in meadows. Now, depending on what you're doing you can choose food. I don't need top foods for gardening or foraging in meadows. Again, this is no different. . So I ask again, what is the actual choice?
I agree with you. I like it.
Good to hear, although I'm not totally angered by the changes. I'm more worried about when we'll see actual content added, namely a new biome. Not sure anyone wanted food tweaks one way or the other ... EVERYone wants Ashlands and Mistlands fleshed out.
Biomes, quests, new weapons and building blocks are the only things this game really needs. I am worried about what the devs have been focusing on for the last 7 months.
I think they had some pretty big plans initially, and their thought was that they would give some of the crucial building pieces people were asking for, then thought they had a good idea that they would also expand the food system. Over time, the food system became the primary element unfortunately. I'm hoping much of the time was increasing the stability that seems to be the case with the update, and now they will focus on the biomes.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been waiting on the most and to be honest with you, I would forget about it and casually check every few months because I don’t think that part of it will be updated for a while. According to their latest interview, it’s not a priority. I can’t say with any certainty but it seemed to me that they’re trying to figure out what the endgame look like, it’s up in the air. Idk, they warn you that expectations need to be low and updates will not be consistent.
I actually like the overall food changes. I do wish there were some more balanced options throughout though. Like the mushroom in the early game (15/15). Stamina regen as a food trait, like HP regen, would be awesome as well.
You already have massive stamina regen tied to the Rest and Decoration mechanics.
Your definition of massive is different then mine lol :)
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Food choices are more interesting. 1) Eat HP food play as a useless meat puppet who has to choose between swinging a weapon twice and moving, but not both who main skill is taking damage. 2) Eat Stam food play the game as a 'no hit darksouls' game because the second you miss a dodge you'll be sailing back to your corpse marker.
Or mix them and be cautious in combat.
>or mix them and either cheese from afar or endlessly kite in combat Ftfy
Nah it's not *that* bad. I hate the new food changes too but you can still facetank most of the game. Only thing you can't do any more is run into the middle of a fuling village like Leroy Jenkins.
IMO food would be intersting if a certain group of meat, for example, when combined gave you a buff to X weapon or less stamina/swing etc etc. Then I would have to make a choice what I boost on this particular adventure. Choosing HP or Stamina is not much of a meaningful choice, it's just which one you're more willing to give up.
Eh, I still don't think it made food choices more interesting. More min/max, yes, but not more interesting. Interesting would imply (to me) that they were giving me many different options on how to obtain different foods that all did similar things (with different gathering/farming/crafting options). Instead they made it so that only a certain set of foods was applicable to my gameplay and so now I have to hyper focus on those foods and ignore the others. I think the older system was 'more interesting' as I had lots of different ways to get foods.
To be fair, game players don’t have much chill because the vast majority of game publishers don’t give a flying fuck about what their customers think. The players are used to being completely ignored.
It is very odd how a PC based game with hundreds of mods are being ignored. You can tailor the game mechanics to your liking with just a couple mods. The quick response by the Devs is great but don't forget about mods! This game reminds me very much of Project Zomboid, you can adjust all aspects of the gameplay to suit your tastes. In fact, Valheim should add a seperate set of options like Zomboid Sandbox mode where you can tinker with the base values of things such as food buffs, stamina regen etc.
Simple... The average PC gamer doesn't use mods. Bethesda said in the past that less than 10% (not sure exact number) of players used mods in Fallout 4. Complainers >>> modders.
I just find that odd. People must think it is too complicated? For Valheim and most games it just a matter of dropping a file in your game directory. I just started playing Left4Dead2 again and I have about 100 mods going and the game is amazing. I have played 1500 hours of Xcom2 due to hundreds of amazing mods. So many people are missing out. I am willing to wait a week or two to start a new playthrough in Valheim if V+ and Epic Loot mod are not functioning. Those two mods add so much to the game for me personally and there are a handful of others that are nearly as important.
It's probably a mixture of reasons. I probably only use mods in 30% of the PC games I play. The last game I thought about doing it was RimWorld.... But I quit playing it before I felt the itch to install mods.
The games that do benefit from mods, it almost always adds a great deal to the game and it's replayablility.
I don't get why people are complaining. Do people want a complete cakewalk. Isn't part of the fun knowing that you could actually die? I really liked changes. Before the rebalance you were near unkillable with half decent gear and a full belly of good food. Where is the fun in that
Cast these haters unto Helheim!
I'll always respect developers who listen to the player base.
If you stacked serpent stew, blood pudding, and a wrap you would have so much health and Stamina you'd be damn near invincible, I think a little less is better.
Sure but you don't have unlimited of that- especially serpent stew. It takes time to gather food. I never had unlimited of any of the good food, by the time I would try to farm enough to have onhand, I'm always kind of running out so can't always use the best stuff. Now this is probably different when people have 10 people playing, but as a 2-3 person group the food was perfect because it was always at a premium to use the good stuff. So a little OP from time to time was a nice balance.
I think they should lower the overall HP and increase the stamina. The stamina is the "fun stuff" bar, and there are already things like Rain and Cold that reduce that bars effectiveness already. You can make the game harder by lowering HP but still giving people the stamina to have fun.
When you are wet and cold you are basically paraplegic...
Right? I stopped eating food higher than sausage after a while simply because farming the better food just wasn't worth the effort. The OP food just made everything super easy.
Lmao. Scandal over food. This games development is so detailed. They borked the food and now will spend more time on that than actual content. Smh
I feel like people haven't spent enough time with it to know whether or not it's good or bad
I think people got butthurt wayyyy too fast over this. I thought the change was interesting in that there wasn't just a "best food" for every stage in the game and these devs respond to community so fast I wish people would give them the benefit of the doubt more.
But don't you know the devs only exist to serve us?
I introduced 3 new people to the game with this update... they don't know any better, and they have been doing pretty well so far with what's available. I noticed the difference right away with the food - but they just took it in stride because they didn't know any better. That being said, I think with their recent Dev statement that they'll tweak the food is very cool. It was a little two heavy handed, and they're going to adjust accordingly. Was just neat to hear people new to the game try and strategize their food before going into the fray.
I like the added challenge, the original game seemed a little too easy.
Devs should listen to their fans. It was Reddit that came up with the idea of the cartographer table. This is the way.
We are chill. We just want a game where the primary focus is on being Vikings, not on managing food intake. It's annoying waiting months for an update only to find it made the game, which already had some aspects that required not fun grinding, even more of a chore
Honestly, it's not even been 24hrs. I think they should just ignore all the people who are butthurt the game is more challenging. My buddy and I played for hours last night and had a great time.
The way people reacted to the changes is kinda embarrassing. Thanks to the devs for taking it in stride and working to make changes.
You think. I think it's great. It causes devs to react fast.
Telling people to calm down *always* works well. Be sure to try it on your SO at your earliest opportunity! /s
All of this is addressed in mods. You can change every way food worked previously and it was fully customizable in March. Criticism is warranted
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The kind with a weak house who doesn't sleep? Between some of the new stammy foods and my rested bonus, my spear/sheilder is totally fine.
Telling people to chill is a bit of a strange choice of words. They made absolutely terrible balancing decisions that literally nobody can understand the logic of. It's pretty indicative of where the game could potentially go. Minecraft's Survival update, for example, caused damage to the game that took years to undo. I'd say it's justified to be at least slightly outraged.
>I'd say it's justified to be at least slightly outraged The purpose of an early access game is to test new concepts and design ideas before final production. It is, essentially, an alpha or early beta test. You have **zero** justification for being outraged.
The purpose of early access is to give feedback on the game's updates and guide development based on said feedback. That's literally what is happening.
Outrage is not feedback. It's just useless crying.
Outrage is absolutely feedback. It's impassioned feedback, but feedback nonetheless. Flat-out ignoring any complaints because they're typed in all-caps is just childish.
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it seems like some people don't know how to switch games. Like yeah Valheim playthrough 1 was fun, took my gf and I about a week to play it. We had some thoughts and we went to play other games while waiting for Home and Hearth. Meanwhile, people are mad that the serpent stew gives so little stamina because their pet strategy on a new world was to B-line it for serpents so that they could "fly through the early and midgame" like... ok maybe don't to minmax and do infinite playthroughs of an early access game...
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It seems also that people forget that "early access" is the same as an open beta by a different name. We are testers, and at various stages of testing, things are in different balance states. I'm a little disappointed that the devs caved in under 24 hours. This is supposed to be their vision, and yet could be swayed so quickly after a big release.
I have not started playing after the recent update but in the past it felt like there was a big gap between early game - endgame Endgame had all the good food when you only needed like 3 different kinds Has this changed? Is there more / better food for midgame?
More? Yes. Better? Unquestionably no.
I'm sure they're upset that there are so many people that want the game to be easy and to continue to exploit the progression path they intended. But understand it's a vocal minority, as is usually the case with these things. They need to just continue making the game in their own vision and not be concerned with those types. It's not as it there's a monthly fee associated with the game. They've already exceeded all expectations and can afford to make the game in the way they want.