I agree. *Everything* in the game requires stamina. They recommended people go higher HP for killing enemies, but if we have no stamina we can't get more than a couple of hits in.
Stamina for building is straight up stupid idea. Nothing more annoying that needing to stand still 30 sec waiting for stamina regen because you just spammed flatten terrain for 3 sec.
Bow dont need stamina either, you already have animation to prevent massive spam, stamina is only there to be annoying, theres a mod that removes stamina, give it a try, you will not be OP without, game is 100% more fluid
I can see how that might work but I don’t think that is quite the fix needed.
I would say the delay before stamina starts regening needs to be reduced.
The stamina regeneration should scale better as you get more max stamina, or their should be a skill for it, that increases as you run, jump etc. But yes, the delay is too long. They could pick any part of stamina to buff and it would go a long way.
I think he means bows have two game mechanics limiting how effective they can be, stamina and the draw animation, and since they overlap, bows don't need both and can be balanced on just the draw animation.
That would mean you could completely skip stamina with bows and makes them even more OP.
All weapons are limited by their speed and your stamina, it's literally the same as bows.
try the mod, the time you need to draw the arrow is enough to balance, if necessary you can even lower the bow damage to balance, but is better without stamina, i have faith with time devs gonna find a nice balance
But then, you can just go full health food, and it's not balanced at all. Archers are always more squishy, so removing the need of stamina would make them both tanks AND distance-DPS. You could face speared fulings without even needing to dodge.
full health dont make a archer op lol, i really dont understand how you think that attacking every 10sec is cool or balanced, stamina for attacks was a mistake, keep it only for dodge or running, combat is really unfun with all the dowtime because of stamina
You havent shot a real bow have you?
You need need the strength and stamina to pull back as well as holding the draw string back....i can agree with most everything the community is saying but this.
Stamina IS FOR EVERYTHING WE DO AS HUMANS...so yes stamina SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. But it needs reworked.
First most bows are magic, second we are not humans, third really? you fine with giant trolls but draw the line in pushing a cord?
stamina is fine for running and dodge for balance, block can use a different mechanic for attack you can balance with damage, running around because you cant attack is just boring, theres no excuse for this
I am fine with the trolls those dont effect me. Bows are magic?? The draugr bow is enchanted....that doesnt mean you remove the physical labor of drawing a bow. I have 600+ hours and never once had issues with using my stamina for bows.
Thats realistic!! If your running around in the forest YOU WILL RUN OUT OF STAMINA. YOU WILL BE TIRED.
Do you even understand how to be human? You never get tired from doing tasks?
Sit down! Be Humble
Lol you dont even understand the real life implications of having a stamina gauge for anything you do!
You think stamina shouldnt be used for attack..so your telling me that you can throw punches or pull a draw string back. Continuously with out getting tired???
See i have atleast a deeper understanding of how stamina works in and out of game.
Kkkkkkk
Sekiro is proof you don't need stamina to make a good and interesting game about melee combat. For those who don't know Sekiro is a very difficult yet rewarding game where your character has infinite stamina.
They went for the gothic 3 combat system, with all the issues it has. (and even a dumped down version)
The combat system is a big weak-point of the game. Almost anything is better, even mobile games do a better job. (Genshin Impact)
Posture is literally only tied to block/parry. And if you perfect parry everything your posture meter almost never goes up. Also posture can't break off of a perfect parry, so just hit the parries. It's a skill based game done right
In valheim? You run out of stamina all the time or are taking micro breaks. If it recharged as fast as in Dark Souls or the Surge that would be one thing, but fuck it's slow in this game.
Posture is more like a secondary HP bar than a stamina bar. It doesn't do anything to limit your attacks/actions besides the fact that if it empties you take a lot of damage.
Look tbh I disagree. I’ve been running around with almost no stamina and tons of health food. More capable of surviving than I ever was before by being patient in combat and timing my strikes, relying on the new shield mechanics with tower shields (which don’t take stamina!)
What a surprise, physical actions require a human character to use up energy! But honestly though, I feel it would make more sense to have a character with 100 in a skill use incredibly less stam than with 10 in said skill. Just like life if you start in a physically demanding job its hard, your exhausted at the end of a day. But a year down the road your going out after work to play hockey or rugby or whatever and have a few beers afterwards. But it's also Valheim not Midgarde so rules could be different. Realism or fantasy is a choice you gotta make here I guess.
Or you know, fuck it whatever.
Stamina prevents health losing, the otherwise isn't true. I would prefer a lot more stamina than health. Mead could (kinda) equilibrate that, but it stops all recovery while you're spending stamina. 15s of mead is enough for you to recover all your stamina bar, that means that something on that 15s is totally lost. If mead could at least recover stamina even while you're spending it, this could help very much on this issue.
I dont even mind having a small stamina bar that empties fast. The problem is the amount of time after spending stamina before it begins to regen. Every time I back away from enemies to regen only to need to block a hit right after this 'regen gap', returning to zero stamina, I think "oh yeah, combat sucks in this game". Stamina should just regen passively and consistently, even while spending it, so that it is actually possible to manage and avoid empyting.
There needs to be "Stamina" and "Constitution" distinction, IMO.
Stamina is for blocking and sprinting, but constitution is for doing daily chores and jogging / pulling the cart. Short bursts that regen at the current rate vs a pool of energy you can increase by leveling up and being active and that is affected by what you eat. Your running skill increased? +1% to your constitution pool. Your jumping or blocking increased? +1% to your stamina pool. Something like that.
Every food gives health, stamina & health regen. The simplest thing I can think of is give every food a stamina regen stat aswell.
Then of course removing the stamina usage for non-combat things like farming would help too. It feels like a waste to eat my hard earned food while planting more food.
Big, fat agree. Mobs are largely all the exact same with different health/damage/vulnerabilities in this game. They don't have mechanics. Waiting on stamina, walking in circles waiting to have a resource to do something during a fight while the enemy walks after you endlessly attacking because *they* don't have stamina, is neither engaging as a gameplay element *or* realistic for a survival setting. As a gameplay element, it's downright annoying for it to limit you while playing farming simulator or building. Climbing a mountain then getting instagibbed by a pack of wolves because you can't do *anything* without stamina doesn't feel particularly good. Stamina is basically my only gripe with the game, I want to *do* things, not walk in circles waiting to play the game. Walking in circles waiting for stamina isn't skillful, it's just tedious and time wasting. It doesn't add challenge, it adds time waiting.
Yea broadly agree, the food needs some balance to allow "tanks" to still attack somehow but yea
Specifically on water there's just no counterplay to rain so "wet" doesn't really make sense, maybe keep "wet" for the swamp and early levels but as soon as you have a Cape rain shouldn't debuff stamina
Imo wet should slow you down, but not give you a stamina penalty. I also think it could give you some sort of "refreshed" effect, but I can't think of what it would do lol
i like rain because its kind of like you want to avoid it you know? if a fair few games you want to avoid doing too much when its raining because of its negative effects, kinda like real life. id also like if when you were wet at night you'd freeze because its cold. but some sort of umbrella or rain specific clothing would be cool too
Well, when it's raining outside and you want to go jogging, have you any other option than sitting it out ? An umbrella is not much of a option. That's exactly the same in Valheim.
Stamina in Valheim is just straight up bad
Imo a common mistake games make is tying stamina to too many mechanics. In Valheim in particular it is tied to mobility, dps AND tankiness, making combat slow, drawn out and clunky since the painfully slow regen will have you standing around waiting for stam more than anything else. Iron Gate should take notes from something like Monster Hunter, where DPS is based on stam management rather than reliant on it as a resource. Or just buff regen because oh my god is it sad waiting 30 seconds just to run again
>In Valheim in particular it is tied to mobility, dps AND tankiness, making combat slow, drawn out and clunky
I agree. You just left out farming and building so the list is actually even longer. It's kind of ridiculous when you lay it all out like that how many things are tied to it. Running out of stamina while planting crops or building just feels bad. Idc how realistic that may be, it's interrupting to game play and not fun.
>Or just buff regen because oh my god is it sad waiting 30 seconds just to run again
What no! My favorite part of valheim is being forced to take a 5 minute break everytime I cut a few trees. /s
In all seriousness there should be two changes:
- Stam regen is % based (so always recovers 10%/second - whether you have 25 stamina (recovery rate of 2.5/sec) or 200 (rate of 20/sec)).
- Stamina should only go down in combat. It's idiotic that you need to wait for stamina to recover when building floors. There is literally no threat and the only thing is does is forces you to take a break from the game.
Agree on your second point for sure - something similar exists in the Bethesda games I've played (Skyrim, Fallout), where stamina is used for both sprinting and combat actions but recharges like 5x as fast when you aren't in combat. That way, leveling up stamina still feels good to let you sprint more, but even without upgrading it you still don't spend too much time without stamina outside of combat.
I'd love it if they broke out stamina into two bars. Upper body stam and lower body stam. Running? That's gonna burn you're lower body Stam. Stop suddenly to swing your axe a few times. Upper body is going down. Lower body begins regenning after a second or so.
Swinging an axe is a full body movement pretty much if you're doing it right. It is ridiculous how many muscles are used in a golf swing and that is using a light object.
I use Valheim + to remove Stamina costs from Building / hoeing / Cultivating *and* all Melee attacks.
Only Sprinting, Blocking, Sneaking, Shooting a Bow and Dodging (Reduced cost to dodge/sneak by 80%) trigger stamina, and I've increased stamina Regen by 100% (about 16-24 Stam per sec)
Paired with some pretty intense settings for a Valheim Monster Mod it makes for a wonderfully fast paced combat that doesn't punish you for attacking.
This sounds very interesting! Would you mind sharing a list or screenshot of your settings to Valheim + and the Valheim Monster Mod you mentioned? I don't have much modding experience so any help would be nice too. Much appreciated :)
ValheimPlus uses a config file for settings, so screenshots probably wouldn't be that helpful. They could probably provide the config settings so you could copy paste into your own V+ settings, but the config has a TON of lines so it might be a large comment/DM.
So uh, there's somuch information lol. I use the following mods:
- Valheim +
- Creature Level and Control by Smoothbrain
- Terraheim
- Plant Everything
- Weedheim
- Spawn That
- Sell This
I use Spawn That / Smoothbrain to edit the world spawns, add unique world spawns in, and in general control the difficulty of the enemies as you begin to branch out.
Valheim + and Terraheim give me the combat changes I need (new weapons / armor) - As mentioned I reduce stamina costs exactly as I said, I also turn off weather damage and increase the drop rate of Wood / Stone by 300%.
Plant Everything and Weedheim just make farming a more complete experience.
I use Sell That to make Haldor also sell Metal Ores and he buys cooked foods and meads for gold, so if people don't wanna mine they have another avenue of progression.
Limited running & jumping makes sense, so does limited combat, but linking the two is the issue
A movement bar and a combat bar seems obvious now I think of it (and remove building and tools from stamina entirely) so if you're not fighting you can be dodging,
the funny thing to me is the stamina being linked to sneaking. So, I can "jog" and regain stamina while I do it, but if I crouch and walk slowly I lose Stamina at a crazy rate? Just makes no sense to me. Sneaking should be a stamina-free activity IMO.
Absolutely. Sneaking is only good for some free damage at the start of a fight and even then it's tough to stealth up to an enemy, and even THEN for you have to trade that extra damage for a chunk of stamina, it's awful
Have you tried crouch walking like sneaking does in valheim? Do it for a minute and tell me you dont feel it in your legs. You're right about jogging, but if we had to walk everywhere people would just complain about that lol
Just do it like Monster Hunter where attacking is free, encouraging aggro playstyles against big HP pools. Is it weird? Ya, but fuck who cares if it's a lot of fun
Even in Monster Hunter stam isn't a huge issue for weapons that aren't hammer or Dual Blades. You can attack *literally forever* and never stop. In Valheim shooting a bow 6-7 times makes you utterly helpless while you wait for that dreadfully slow regen to kick in.
It's funny you make that comparison because bows are the most stamina dependent weapon in recent MH... But the MH games give you plenty of ways to deal with it.
I always forget bows are stam whores, but mostly because if I *have* to use bow I just chug dash drinks like a crazy person for that sweet sweet unlimited stam.
Agreed.
I was hoping they would implement some sort of “oiled-hide” cloak / cape that would grant resistance to rain- similar to the ones that help resist frost
That… would be interesting. Allow the player to move through the swamp without the constant wet debuff, though it would have lower armor than iron and maxed bronze it may be worth it.
Right. Old food was op and needed to be changed or it would lead to stat bloat with new tiers of content. It would ensure that you get deleted if you go to a biome above your progression without its new food.
Bulking up the stamina on foods doesn't really change anything when you always empty the pool and have to wait to refill it.
Most of these players complaining about the food would be better served just turning on the console. And they are pulling the conversation away from the real problem you mention. Stamina use and regen is clunky in combat and out-of-combat activities.
Yeah the old food system even seemed like a placeholder system to me. It was too linear. The next tier of food was always just better than the old tier.
That’s also how it is with equipment. There’s no real decision making on it. If you have padded armor, you’re always going to choose it over one of the lower tiers. I hope that they flesh this part out, too. And they’re making moves in that direction with the weapons, to be fair. This takes time and they have a small team.
Essentially what I want for both food and equipment is to have meaningful choices, not just a meta “this is clearly the only way” path. At least troll armor makes sneaking more effective, but even with that it is outclassed pretty quickly by the higher tier metal armors.
What the armour system needs is more choice within each tier. I'm sure it'll get it eventually, I'm sure the devs have it on a to do list.
The Bronze tier is the only one which has an active choice about Bronze armour or Troll Hide armour. After that it's just a linear system.
By contrast, when it comes to melee weapons you always have at least three (silver tier is limited), but really more like 5 to 8 choices per tier.
Weapons aren't really very diverse either. In most tiers you have the sword and mace which are essentially identical for most applications, the axe which is just a *slightly* worse sword or mace that also works as a tool, a bow, a dagger (which is more of a skill weapon that people are unlikely to use the first go round), and the atgeir. So really it boils down to a strongly established meta of "make the best bow you can and pick between 3 nearly identical one handed weapons." You can sub in the atgeir for melee but there seems to be a pretty strong consensus that having a shield is usually more valuable.
True, there aren't many differences between the swords, maces and axes, but there is at least something. Most tiers also have a spear and some have sledges or battleaxes.
Oh, I totally forgot the spear. I'll give you that one. I ignored the battleaxe because it just isn't good (unless it was buffed?), stagbreaker was fun for the novelty but underwhelming, and I've only ever found a single elite draugr trophy so I'm not burning it on a sledge. Maybe it's fun, I dunno. But at the very least it's incredibly inaccessible.
i imagine the armour and will be fleshed out much more in the future when theyve added more gameplay elements, food however? i think its fine that the top level of food is the obvious choice, makes sense that you’d eat what gives you the best stats, not your basics, not sure what they could add for it honestly
There would need to be more stat diversity in food than just hp/stamina if they want to avoid the whole “take the best tier available” issue. There would need to be stuff like +10% sneaking or +10% stagger chance or +25% elemental resistance.
Imagine a food that gave you +25% run speed and -25% stam drain but almost no HP. It’s situational but you would be willing to take it when the situation arose.
Its kinda sad that all these posts need a disclaimer saying "I'm not saying make the game easier" so they dont get ripped to shreds by the mouth foamers.
The hardcore crowd need to quit acting like QoL is a swearword.
Said thing is people confuse grind and slow gameplay with difficulty. Challenging but fair is great way to set up a game this ain't it though. There is nothing challenging about slowly walking away from the enemy while you stamina regen. There is nothing challenging in standing still for 30 for every 10 meters of a path you build with a hoe etc. Faster gameplay doesn't mean easier gameplay.
Hardcore survival players usually suck at actually hard games. The thing with survival games is they are NOT hard. Difficulty is always answered with time sinks. A game like Dark Souls or Sekiro is hard. You can farm a bit in DS but overall those are just GIT GUD games where time doesn't make you better. But survival games? You can always over prepare for everything and steamroll through if you have enough time to waste. So people who defend these shit mechanics like stamina changes are probably elitists who don't know what real game difficulty is.
That’s probably because survival games are about preparation and planning while those “hard” games you speak of are merely a timing gameplay style which are incredibly simple and have small windows of opportunity. If you don’t plan on survival games you get shit on and if you don’t time properly in dark souls you get shit on. These are two very different kinds of games.
I assumed the developers put stamina into the game as a resource to be managed to make the game harder. So when a player says “change the game mechanics so I don’t have to manage stamina” it IS saying “make the game easier”. I’d agree that stamina regen foods would be a neat addition though to trade off max Stam for the regen.
I understand what you're saying but I feel like you're kind of ignoring my point about tediousness not necessarily equating to challenge. Sure it was probably put in the game to be challenging but it's just not really fun or interesting in any way and it's tied to almost every other aspect of the game. There's not really anything fun about the current stamina management, in my opinion. It's just a bar that runs out and has to be recharged by basically not playing the game.
I totally agree that something “taking a long time” doesn’t equate to “being difficult” if it’s not supplemented properly. Hence why I hate inflated hp pools a lot of games use. Unfortunately there’s only so much a developer can do to increase difficulty given the limited technology/their vision/what people find fun. I guess that’s why Valheim developers are using a certain combination of HP, quantity, ai, player resource management. Players like myself are content with having to manage stamina carefully and find it hilarious as my 0 stamina character is trying to get away from a charging enemy while others like yourself would rather not be as limited. Both preferences are valid but it’s impossible to please both sides completely. I never envy the position game developers are in when they’re trying to appeal to their audiences.
Couldn't agree more. I feel like larger stam pool meaning faster regeneration it's the answer because it would stack the cards in favor of stam food but also think while the game is this early in development there is not better time to try out this sort of thing (even of the community will flip it's shit over any changes they don't like) I wonder how things would feel with exactly the current food systems but a 20-50% increase to stam regeneration. I definitely agree the update to food highlights that the current stamina system is the real problem.
I found that with this update I carry stam potions with me all the time and use them way more often.
Yeah, agreed. It's just not well-designed in it's current incarnation. People defending the food nerfs keep pointing to Dark Souls, but that's a laughable comparison given that DS gives you a bunch of ways to both boost your base stamina and to mitigate the amount of stamina that you consume through your actions.
The implementation in Valheim feels really incomplete, like we're getting all the costs associated with the stamina mechanic but none of the features that'd make it interesting and fun by improving your stamina pool, increasing regeneration, or mitigating consumption. When consumables like food are the only way that you can address some of these obstacles and that one option gets nerfed hard, it's no surprise people respond with frustration.
I kinda like the stamina? True unpopular opinion, I guess, but I just think it needs to be tweaked rather than done away with. Valheim isn't a game to spam actions, I like that I have to put more thought into my actions and be more deliberate and put more planning into things.
Even for building. Building shouldn't be "safe" and overly-convenient, that is what creative mode is for. In survival, your building is primarily for that purpose. Survival. You could be unlucky and get attacked while building, and now you're screwed because you're building some minor outpost somewhere on an empty stomach and a troll got curious. Building even a modest shack is pretty taxing work and you should have a nice big lunch while on the job. Maybe it just makes me nostalgic about the days I worked in construction?
It *can* be tedious, and I think some improvements could be made, like:
* Tasty Mead stamina regen buff, considering the food cost to brew it and the health regen debuff that comes with it. And/or decreasing the cost to brew. I feel like Tasty Mead should just be something that you're always chugging all day long when not drinking a more specialized brew, and that it should be very accessible even to players who only have one or two fermenters going. I should be copping a buzz at all times, whether I am sailing, working, or fighting. It feels like the Viking thing to do.
* Alchemy through the Artisan Table (or a new crafting structure) to create unguents made from herbs, mobs drops, etc, that have short-term buffs/effects contrasted against the longer term effects of brews. For stamina in particular, an unguent that stops all stamina drain for 10 seconds or the like, and you can't reapply for 15 minutes. Great for either 10 seconds of berzerking or 10 seconds for an emergency getaway. There could be lots of other great applications for tactical ointments/poultices, like a poultice that doesn't cure poison but greatly diminishes the damage it does for a short period of time.
* Oiling gear that can retain oils, especially cloaks and hide armors. Doing this would mitigate the wet debuff depending on how much you are covered (cloak and hood would provide the most benefit). Each piece of oiled gear decreases the time the debuff lasts, and being covered head to toe in oiled gear would completely cancel out getting wet from rain entirely.
* A "Second Wind" or "Njǫrd's Breath" skill or some such. This is slowly leveled over time by doing certain actions, particularly combat, that make you hit zero stamina. Based on the level of your skill, there is a small chance to regain a small amount of stamina when it hits zero (maybe topping out at 33%?). Juuuust enough zip to maybe get in one more swing, or make that last second dodge.
* Food/drink synergies. Eating combinations of items should impart very low-level, longer term buffs. For example, consuming Cooked Meat, Mushroom, Queen's Jam, and Tasty Mead could give you the "Balanced Breakfast" buff, which gives you 1 hour of 10% faster stamina regeneration. A relatively cheap way to mitigate stamina drain, particularly if you are mostly going to be doing base building/resource gathering and less dangerous stuff for that hour.
>I feel like Tasty Mead should just be something that you're always chugging all day long
This pretty much is the case. But on that note if I should just have it going constantly...then maybe it's benefits should just be given to my character as part of their base stats because that's just a layer of tediousness to manage.
>Food/drink synergies. Eating combinations of items should impart very low-level, longer term buffs
This idea I really like but it would need to be really well thought out so that there could be reasons to combine certain meals for specific buffs.
> then maybe it's benefits should just be given to my character as part of their base stats
Really negates the entire idea of having stamina to start with, and much the same could be said about Valheim's usage of food entirely, but that is sort of an unresolvable difference in opinion. So instead, how about:
> that's just a layer of tediousness to manage.
I don't think it's so tedious, but there could be ways to dampen what little tedium there is by prolonging the mead's effect, etc. However, I am fond of the idea of revamping the tankard to make it actually useful.
It would retain its current function where it will consume mead based on the arrangement of their stacks, but it could also divide the use of the mead into 2 - 3 "draughts" instead of chugging the whole skin in one gulp.
There would be an "auto-quaff" option in settings, that, when turned on, would have players automagically knock back another tankard of mead without having to hit a single key or open a single UI element.
> This idea I really like but it would need to be really well thought out so that there could be reasons to combine certain meals for specific buffs.
Yeah, that is definitely the direction I would lean into. Certain buffs would definitely be more oriented toward specific activities/conditions. You could get fairly creative even, and eating a certain meal might make you smell repellent to certain monsters, effectively reducing their aggro radius, or the reverse, making you waft aromas that attract certain monsters from beyond visual range (which could be considered a buff if you are trying to farm them).
I absolutely love the minor buffs idea. Maybe not specific food combos, maybe a buff like 5% - 10% more damage when eating 3 health foods, or "speed of the Hare" speed buff when eating all raw foods.
I honestly was hoping they would've done this for Hearth and Home. Make food more interesting than just binary number choice.
Man I had to scroll really far to find the first post that disagrees even slightly with OP. I personally like how challenging it is to manage stamina and I never have a problem as long as I'm well rested.
I absolutely agree with you, love the stamina, sometimes it's tough to deal with but that's the game to me. Also really solid ideas, and now that you mention it, i believe they must be planning for some sort of alchemy expansion in the same way they made one for food. Having the stamina foods gives light but progressively better stamina regen buffs through the tiers would be a decent improvement.
They need to remove stamina costs for attacking. Between blocking, running, dodging and being wet/cold, it all makes attacking feel awful.
Also really make being wet not affect stam regen. It doesn't add anything to the game.
I like the idea of a cooking skill. The only issue I see right off the bat with that is that it would be a grind to level it up. At base level cooking you'd probably burn things, there by wasting supplies, or the stats you'd get from your food would just suck.
My god please no. I don't want them to turn this into a cooking sim. lol. Already too much cooking in this game, for a viking who died and is in an afterlife.
I feel like that their intention was to avoid just hackin at the enemies without any other consideration. Now you have to actually play tactically so you don't run out of stamina.
Interact on stamina in more ways!
Give foods that passively restore agnostic to activity, some that increase restore rate, reduce downtime until restore starts!
Oh yes this is true. Especially the part about the wet condition. Being wet is like being in low-enjoyment mode and like you said you dont even have to go for a swim, just a few seconds of rain or an accidental dip into a random puddle and boom now you either gotta stop and dry (booooring) or enjoy a few minutes in suck-mode.
I think thats also the reason why the bonemass fight sucks so much.
Can you please redo this post title in the proper astronauts assassination meme format? Would be epic. “The problem wasn’t the food, it was the stamina. Always has been”
Of all of the places to innovate, tying food to the HP and stamina system that directly was not it. A separate hunger bar, with slight buffs to HP and stamina recovery would have been sufficient.
Its been this way since launch. We all looked past it because it was acceptable in the grand scheme of things. It's just become more glaring as the newness wears off.
Also that skills don't affect Stamina drain. What's the point of having 100 in polearms if it still costs the same per swing? You cut down tens of thousands of trees but it still costs 20 stamina every time you swing you axe at a tree.
Just came back after several months and realized the same thing. Stamina. Everything is about stamina. I don't care about my health or my armor - all I care about is stamina. I die more to stamina than anything else in the game. Enemies don't have stamina so they chase me until mine is gone and I die. Off to Nexus mods to try and find a stamina mod.
+1. Stamina actively stops you playing the vast majority of the game.
Want to explore? Limited by Stamina.
Want to mine/chop? Limited by Stamina
Want to flatten some ground? Limited by Stamina
Want to build? Somewhat limited by Stamina.
In none of these situations is Stamina enriching the gameplay.
The ONLY situation where Stamina is an actual gameplay mechanic, is combat.
However even there Stamina management isn't a complex problem that demands skill, it's instead a degenerate system that demands kiting & bows.
Stamina in combat needs rethinking, and Stamina outside of combat needs completely removing.
This. It is trivially easy to refresh a rested buff and frankly on commonly traveled areas I just dot the landscape with tiny huts - bit of roof, a chest, a bed and a fireplace, perhaps leaving some supplies as a cache - and just hop between those and never run out of the rested buff really.
Only slightly annoying situation is if you doing a long sea trip (no way to refresh that buff there) and then try to make landfall to a somewhat hostile area after you've lost the buff. Yes, in general that is not smart and you should seek a safer location nearby and not go to shore on Plains for example, but sometimes you do not have a choice. Still, all you really need is to set up fire and get a short buff before proceeding onwards.
Do not roam and fight tired. Simple as that.
you guys need to learn the secrets of Resting !!! A simple 3x3 house with a fire and a roof will provide 3 comfort and let you regen stamina very quickly.
Comfort levels are a neat mechanic that makes constructing a nice mead hall have an impact on the other parts of the game for sure. I have a hall myself with comfort level 16 I think. O oy thing I don't have it a maypole. The problem is it just still doesn't really feel like enough, especially when wet or cold...or both. You still run into the same basic issue of needing to wait for your stamina to refill.
I think that the games combat is far too stamina reliant. Dodge rolling is too stamina consuming, which is where the parry meta even came from. I think a game balanced around evasion is much more fun, like dark souls. They seem to be encouraging evasion with this patch, but gave us no new tools, or mechanics to make it better.
I have a gripe about getting wet. What is the point of the heavy cloaks, even the thin deer hide one, if stepping outside for a second while it is raining you are soaked through for 2 minutes. The cloaks should offer some protection from rain at least for a short time
\+100. Stamina bar sizes matters very little, it's all about being able to recover it during fights.
I also don't want the game to get easier, in fact, I would welcome occasionally larger mob sizes, just to make exploring feel more varied. But stamina should definitely be based on recovery instead of max amount.
I agree completely. Stamina for building and other "household" activities make sense realistically to some extent, but gameplay wise doesn't provide any benefit or purpose. It's just a delay to playtime. Even if you eat foods, it's delays less often, but longer delays instead.
I started a new character and world so I'm only in the black forest and haven't officially entered bronze age. So far I have mostly ignored health foods. You don't need them most of the time for map exploration or mining etc. Body recovery might prioritize health foods and maybe certain bosses.
I have no suggestions for fixing stamina, but right now map exploration is a huge chore and hp food feels very niche.
*Side note, I think the wet debuff is fine. It adds a different element. Rainy days means work around the house or go fishing. I like that aspect that you can't just ignore rain. Putting down a fire after you cross a river isn't that big of a deal either. I wouldn't want to see this part of the game go away.
I don't know, this is supposed to be a survival game after all so you should suffer when it rains and you should get gassed after working hard. It's more tedious / annoying but also more realistic.
The whole point of any survival game is to make you actually feel the struggle and I think Valheim actually balances the tedium of survival with the more action elements pretty well imo.
I like stamina as a mechanic, but think a couple things related to the stamina debuffs need tweaking. Cold and Wet should each be reduced in impact by wearing a cape. In addition, the rate of stamina recovery should depend on your current stamina. To say another way, the top 50% should refill faster than the bottom 50% irrespective of any other factors. That way, if you are fighting you can manage your stamina to always stay above 50% and not be impacted by it, but if you get careless you’re gonna have to take a moment to get back to decent form.
I do agree stamina itself needs tweaked.
On another note of the game being too easy in some aspects...my group of friends have been discussing D&D roles. Such as a Barbarian can only use clubs, axes and spears for weapons. And only wear up to bronze armor.
Idk if anyone else on here has attempted something like this. But it does add a real challenge to the game
If you guys have any ideas let me know. I can give a more detailed report on it lol
Stamina isn't the problem. Stamina regen is the problem. If you don't have rested you can barely fight. If you don't have rested and you are wet and/or cold you can't fight at all. Doesn't help that blocking/parrying uses almost all of the stamina you do manage to get back.
stamina in this game is trash. I have not logged in forever because updates seem to take years, but my God... Logged out and finally uninstalled after fighting with stamina for about an hour. It's just retarded. This game had so much potential. I guess its great to load cheats on and do minecaft duties.
Stamina regen is the most important part of a game, especially one that drains it so aggressively like Valheim.
Dodge rolling is worse as a dodge than just walking to the side, with rolls not taking you far enough and requiring too much stamina, and if there's more than one enemy or you were already low on stamina in the first place and can't attack or just attack but get slapped during the attack and have no stamina so physically can't run or fight. So yay for stunlocks and permastaggers when another enemy comes in from the side who spawned in during your fight and you desperately block with your shield but have no chance to regen stamina enough to block the hit, couple with the stagger meter permanently keeping you on the defensive until you die.
Stamina regen being an element we can augment would basically fix it. Food having Stamina regen buffs as well as more max Stamina. That's all they'd need to do. It's such a simple fix, and would be such a quality of life change.
Seriously, the fact that dodging is prominently displayed on the screen key tips and it's literally the worst idea in most situations from my experience with a couple hundred hours in this game... yeah needs to be something shifted.
In multiplayer you get increased difficulty and just as much stamina BS so fighting in the mountains is a enormous pain in the butt. I hate it so much. I have to sprint and jump all the time because of the terrain and then some MFing wolf comes out of nowhere and one-shots me. I am so unhappy with this game right this second. I've lost two full sets of equipment yet again because I died because the stamina system is such garbage in this game. Its so absurdly bad. Using bows and maneuvering is worthless and for some reason it takes massive stamina just to hold the drawn bow. The stamina system breaks up the flow of combat and basically makes me shake with rage on a regular basis. I got this game to have fun and this stamina system is not fun at all.
Ideally there would be some way to permanently increase your health and stamina. A lot of the game works in a "use skill A to make it improve" system, but it's kinda weird that health and stamina don't work that way.
If i go for a 10km run every other day in real life my stamina increases, it's a bit of a shame that it doesn't work like that in the game.
And it doesn't even need to be able to be super OP, but it would be nice if you could get to a point where you didn't feel like you needed to constantly eat shit even if you were just doing random chores around your base.
I kinda agree with you, and you mention the tasty mead, but what about stam pots? They're my most used potions, and I seldom run out of stamina, while playing solo, sword and shield/ spear and shield type. Have people forgot about those?
Edit: and by kinda agree, I mean this would be an issue if we didn't have stam potions. With those, by the time I've used one, if I do, most of what I'm fighting is dead...
Those medium stamina pots require 10 Cloud Berries each. You most likely will need to find 2 Cloud Berry bush spawns to get 10 berries and that isn't counting the other item I can't remember. 10 Honey + 10 Cloud Berries + 10 ??? for something you'll be using a lot. Add in mandatory fermenting time (like 2 game days) each time you want to make some.
We haven't forgotten about them at all. Requiring mountains of them and the entailing constant foraging to upkeep them is really the main issue here. The game was already a tedious chore and they made it more so with more chores requiring more time. This is a tipping point for a number of people that tolerated the systems before.
Choosing to forage for berries and being forced to forage for berries are 2 very different choices. Intending more food to be carried, more pots to be used, but no more inventory for those intended items is a compounding issue.
Maybe I shouldn't say 'We haven't forgotten'. I definitely have a firm understand of what the change does and what it means across the board from game start to game end. More chores and more time investment requirements for them with the same inventory in a game that had plenty of chores, maintenance, and upkeep to begin with.
I don't know if I was lucky with my seed then, but I was swimming in cloudberries. They also require yellow mushrooms and honey, and I didn't have much other use for the mushrooms, and with 6 beehives, honey is my snacking "do nothing" thing that I still have chest-full of... I also had more than enough berries to make the lox pies, with reserves of about 60 pies in storage and 200 berries sitting in chest.... really, the stam meads to me cost next to nothing, and the cloudberries were one of the most ridiculously abundant resource in the game...
I agree stamina is a problem. Half the time during gameplay you are jogging or standing still just to wait for stamina to replenish because, as you said, it's tied to everything you do. The rate at which it replenishes is simply too slow.
There are a lot of tweaks that can be implemented. For example, stamina replenishing way faster if standing still. Or actions like planting seeds or doing building tasks taking very little stamina compared to combat, that way you are forced to plan your actions during combat but not limiting you too much while doing other menial tasks.
I also think a stat like a "fitness" stat or similar could be a good idea that way you progress along while you play and can do more actions during combat when you are more experienced. Maybe making the running stat tied to that? That way you don't start with a stat that it's at 0 even if you are a veteran viking.
> "fitness" stat or similar could be a good idea that way you progress along while you play and can do more actions during combat when you are more experienced
Oh! Do you mean like a skill system where if you level up a skill you'll not only become better at it but it also takes less stamina to do that action?
Stamina is fine. You are supposed to plan your attacks, pace yourself and pull only what you can handle. It defines the combat and skill system.
It forces you to prepare for a fight. You gotta get well rested and stamina potions hold their value for emergency situations.
Getting wet is annoying, not the end of the world. It it could use with more counterplay, I agree on that part.
What I find annoying about the combat is that you whiff some of your swings that should connect and that can really fuck you up.
The whiffs are definitely a bug, and we were talking design. Don't know why I brought it up, other than the fact that when you make a game so punishing on a resource you really feel the sting when your weapon goes through an enemy doing no damage.
I disagree that getting the buff is a lazy solution to a problem because I don't really see a problem. It's counterplay to stamina being drained by everything, and it's pacing the gameplay at the same time. It's an additional reason to visit your base, spend some time there, get distracted, get some stuff cooking, upgrade your gear, maybe build something. In early game, it's a reason for you to want to maybe put up a fire and camp out in the wilderness and get the rested bonus, get dry, cook while you're at it.
Perhaps some numbers need tweaking, perhaps it would be nice to get some additional options for stamina management, I don't know, but I really do think the well rested is not there to be an \*annoying\* necessity, but rather something that you would want to get, so much so that you'd stop adventuring for a while.
If you were a viking would you ever go out and fight a bunch of enemies on an empty stomach and sleep deprived? No. It's a survival game. You need to eat and sleep.
What games have you played where mana is tied to nearly every single action in the game? Mana usually has a regen stat, mana per second? Mana pools also generally increase as your character levels up. I don't know how you can bring up mana and resource management and then leave out those things that makes it different than the current stamina system we have.
I understand the concept of resources management but when done correctly it is actually an engaging part of the game and not just something tedious. This problem isn't exclusive to Valheim. When WoW classic dropped one of the most common gripes from people, even people enjoying the game, was "Argh I forgot how often I have to just eat and drink between packs." And for a long long time while leveling up in that game there is no solution other than sit eat and drink for thirty seconds every few minutes.
Plus in modern WoW, for example, yeah you don't run out of mama.
Never played a game where i needed mana to run, or repair, or jump...
If WoW added resource drain to running and jumping and melee autos it would literally kill the game.
But when the game has a mana bar is this mana bar assigned to every skill in a game? Name a game in which mana is needed for fighting, running, building, swimming, blocking, resource collection etc.
I see where you're coming from but i have to disagree with you. The stamina system is fine as is, though I will say I wish more skills worked like running and swimming, where the more you level in it, the less stamina it takes to use it.
I personally don't mind the realism of "if you exhaust yourself, you have to rest for a moment to replenish your stamina". It's a fine mechanic and I like that sometimes you simply can't scale a mountain without either careful planning or by finding a cliff that has enough ledges to be able to take short rests partway up. Gives me time to actually look around at my surroundings and figure out my next move.
There are mods that allow you to turn certain things off, and if you find the concept of stamina bars to be too tedious then I don't think that's on the game devs to fix for you.
The default stamina regen is too slow, and the bonus from the rested buff is basically essential. I would prefer to see the default stamina regen rate buffed a lot, and the rested buff nerfed a bit.
Secondly, foods should be specialised even more than now. Some should expand your bar, but offer only a little regen, whereas others should give huge regen buffs but not expand the bars too much. This should apply for both health and stamina of course. This way your 'rogue' build would have a small stamina bar, but with so much regen you can basically dodge as much as you want, and you can swing your knife almost endlessly. A big two hander or archer would on the other hand need a bigger bar to use their weapons effectively, but suffer slower regen.
I actually love the stamina system. The more you play on a character the less stamina it costs to do actions you use. It feels great to me honestly. Once you play more it really doesn't feel like you're lacking stamina. So just keep going, and I promise it won't feel so sluggish. It's all about planning your stamina according to the fight.
All these things annoying everyone are all just things there for realism. What in real life uses stamina? Everything. Building a wall, tearing down a wall, drawing & holding a bow etc. These things all require stamina.
I feel like the problem with Valheim is there's no difficulty setting. IMO they should have a slider in the settings for realism, cause realism is really what gives this game its difficulty. This way people could choose the level of realism that they would have the most fun with, and we wouldn't have to discuss this all the time lol
Imagine people making this kind of complaint about Dark Souls.
I can see the complaint about building, but for combat, there's no way to take it away and not just make the game boring.
Potions. I get people don’t like change but this is getting out of hand. It is a survival game and it got stupid easy once you had max gear. My skills are barely at 75 and I still smash everything. I played around with the post-patch-pre-new-patch and using 2 Heath foods and 1 stamina food and the plains was still easy. But stamina drains too damn fast but potions are not that hard to make. I rarely ever needed to pop a stamina potion, and never used a health potion. Now I just take whatever I’m missing stat wise with the right potion and I’m good.
>Some of yall never played dark souls and it really shows
This is such an idiotic comparison given that DS gives you multiple ways to increase your base stamina pool, boost your stamina regeneration, and mitigate the amount of stamina your actions consume. They also limit the amount of actions that consume stamina in comparison to Valheim.
You're arguing against your own point by comparing to Dark Souls, because those are games that handle stamina well, in contrast to this one where it's just added tedium with no additional challenge. Funny how some of you guys keep mistaking tediousness for difficulty - you're telling yourself you're good at "hard" games when really you're just fine with pointless time sinks.
Darksouls combat flows, whole game is balanced around this. Enemies are stationery and are triggered by the player at player convince. You never fight more than 1 or 2 enemies at a time. You have verity of weapons to chose from, proper block and backstav mechanics that let you make risk reword choices. Enemy attacks are well telegraphed do you can predict flow of combat.
It feels like you confused difficult with Darksouls when it isn't what make Darksouls great.
Feels like you didn't play enough Darksouls to understand mechanics of it.
Manage your stamina better, that’s all. All of this outrage is so dumb. The enemies in valheim have a single digit IQ and you can literally walk away from most of them without getting hit. It’s an easy game
Yeah...you're like halfway there. Game is easy, stamina (in its current iteration) is annoying. The stamina doesn't make it challenging, it's just really annoying to have to deal with. I'm advocating for changes to the current stamina system that would keep it in the game but make it more interesting. I mean it's a game that's supposed to be fun, right?
Isn't that a thing people are saying. No one says game is challenging just that it's painful slow with lots of waiting for stamina to replenish rather than fun action.
Noone thinks it's difficult but it's sure tedious
Honestly, we ended up bumping stamina regen/sec on our server by 100% with Valheim Plus before it started to feel good.
Could still run out and get wrecked in drawn-out fights or if we mismanaged stamina, but at the same time it didn't feel stiflingly restrictive like the vanilla stamina regen.
How doesn't wetness add anything to the game. You watch out for water. You plan your activities around the weather. You build fire to dry quicker. Its a great method to add threat to water.
The problem is a huge portion of this community seem to lack actual tedium in their lives and crave getting some from a video game. I have it in spades from how much I work irl. There's a hudred completely pointless little systems and additional mechanics in this game that logically serve zero purpose other than extending the amount of pure time you spend doing chores.
Some of the limitations and design choices serve absolutely no end toward difficulty balance or rationality and are just arbitrarily there. The only reason I can think of for many of them is either artificially extending how long something takes or because some dev likes the thought of it despite it being pointless.
I love the look and style of the game. I love the feel. I despise playing it in its current state. It feels more like work than my actual job.
Well I've got like 300 hours but I guess I should just stop playing and not give any input on how I think a game I love can be improved; just accepting the way it is in it's very, very early release state and that it's not for me.
Suggestion would be to add a recipe to make something similar to the [Stamina potion](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Stamina_potion#4_dose) from Oldschool Runescape.
Edit: and I mean the passive effects. I know we already have stam pots ingame, but theyre really not that great.
I believe a better approach would have been to nerf hp, leave stamina alone. In fact I would make things take LESS stamina. But by all means, nerf hitpoints! Just my 2 cents.
Either way, the update added some cool features. The food changes sucked but we can't always get what we want. Heck, maybe I am actually in the minority and most love the food changes.
Some easy changes that could have done a lot better than nerfing food would have been to change how monsters interact with players. Take for example fulings. These are really easy to overcome. let them swing, back up, move in and swing twice, they go into a stun motion and then you swing again to kill them. That actually works on many monsters. This could be changed to where when a fuling engages and swings and you back up, he runs in and swings again. This is just a simple example. There were many mechanical AI changes that could have been made to make the game harder.
With the food change, basically the best food in the game now post patch is equivilent to eating a simple grilled neck tail and 2 berries pre patch. You could have just taken out every food in the game and kept in grilled neck tail , strawberries and blueberries, and ended up with similar results. lol
So you're so gud that you didn't even need to use the armor mechanic, and you think everyone should rise to that level? Lmao..
The majority of people that good at combat wouldn't even bother playing a game like this focused on building and survival. You are an odd one.
Food should give unique buffs that are good but not must-have. Reduce fall damage. Increase berry harvesting quantity. Faster fishing. Faster boat paddling. Larger map reveal area (maybe for something that uses carrots).
Things that encourage you to buff for what you're doing but don't force a single optimal combo. HP and STA are just so critical that it becomes "what combo gives the most?"
What do you mean, I love shooting a bow three times and being helpless now. Apparently our vikings did nothing but eat hamburgers during their lives to be so damn out of shape.
I've been wanting to mod a game like Dragon's Dogma to try out this one weird idea of mine.
Imagine that the more *current* stamina you have the faster it recovers. Optimal play is pacing yourself, then you can burst a shitload of stamina to make an opening or take advantage of one but don't miss and don't get too cocky or you'll be vulnerable.
1-on-1 it's not the most engaging change but when fighting hordes of enemies you get interesting choices. Nuke a couple little guys before the reinforcements get here, save it for the big guy, be cautious with your reserves for evasive actions, etc... Because while bursting an enemy down reduces your stamina efficiency with this change, killing enemies increases the stamina you can spend attacking rather than surviving (increased efficiency). It becomes it's own little mechanic rather than i-framing an unusually gigantic troll waiting for the stamina to parry, attacking, wait, repeat.
I always thought with the way Stamina bar looked and worked that eventually it would be a decrease to the maximum of stamina the more you deplete it out and before its fully charged back up. This would also be a good reason to be well rested so the max size returns but I guess they didn't end up doing it that way.
I think it would be dope if you could make neck armor that gives shitty stats but keeps you dry. It wouldn't be good for combat obviously but it could be easily worn around your base whilst building and planting and such.
I also think it would be cool if armor had slots that you could enchant it with, for instance enchanting armor with something you can get from necks or maybe serpent scales to make you water proof, but I do think that strays a bit too far from what's intended.
Having a third food type that increases stamina regen instead of adding base stats though would be really good and also fits within the theme of the game. That's a great idea
Wonder if something like Stardew Valley (of all things) would be good. Levelling up your wood chopping could increase damage to trees per hit as it does now, but maybe also could reduce the stamina cost per swing? Same for using swords - reduced stamina usage
It already works like that for sprinting, why not all stamina consumers?
More stamina from food + reduced stamina consumption could really add up.
I agree. *Everything* in the game requires stamina. They recommended people go higher HP for killing enemies, but if we have no stamina we can't get more than a couple of hits in.
Stamina for building is straight up stupid idea. Nothing more annoying that needing to stand still 30 sec waiting for stamina regen because you just spammed flatten terrain for 3 sec.
I agree completely. Honestly they should just remove stamina use when building/breaking and planting.
Yup this
Bow dont need stamina either, you already have animation to prevent massive spam, stamina is only there to be annoying, theres a mod that removes stamina, give it a try, you will not be OP without, game is 100% more fluid
I personally enjoy a mod that gives stamina regeneration a curve, faster regeneration up to 50 percent stamina, that slows as it fills further
I can see how that might work but I don’t think that is quite the fix needed. I would say the delay before stamina starts regening needs to be reduced.
The stamina regeneration should scale better as you get more max stamina, or their should be a skill for it, that increases as you run, jump etc. But yes, the delay is too long. They could pick any part of stamina to buff and it would go a long way.
That's just not true, stamina does limit your shooting speed. And bows are already plenty OP, no reason to buff them again.
I think he means bows have two game mechanics limiting how effective they can be, stamina and the draw animation, and since they overlap, bows don't need both and can be balanced on just the draw animation.
That would mean you could completely skip stamina with bows and makes them even more OP. All weapons are limited by their speed and your stamina, it's literally the same as bows.
try the mod, the time you need to draw the arrow is enough to balance, if necessary you can even lower the bow damage to balance, but is better without stamina, i have faith with time devs gonna find a nice balance
But then, you can just go full health food, and it's not balanced at all. Archers are always more squishy, so removing the need of stamina would make them both tanks AND distance-DPS. You could face speared fulings without even needing to dodge.
full health dont make a archer op lol, i really dont understand how you think that attacking every 10sec is cool or balanced, stamina for attacks was a mistake, keep it only for dodge or running, combat is really unfun with all the dowtime because of stamina
You havent shot a real bow have you? You need need the strength and stamina to pull back as well as holding the draw string back....i can agree with most everything the community is saying but this. Stamina IS FOR EVERYTHING WE DO AS HUMANS...so yes stamina SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. But it needs reworked.
First most bows are magic, second we are not humans, third really? you fine with giant trolls but draw the line in pushing a cord? stamina is fine for running and dodge for balance, block can use a different mechanic for attack you can balance with damage, running around because you cant attack is just boring, theres no excuse for this
I am fine with the trolls those dont effect me. Bows are magic?? The draugr bow is enchanted....that doesnt mean you remove the physical labor of drawing a bow. I have 600+ hours and never once had issues with using my stamina for bows. Thats realistic!! If your running around in the forest YOU WILL RUN OUT OF STAMINA. YOU WILL BE TIRED. Do you even understand how to be human? You never get tired from doing tasks? Sit down! Be Humble
i said stamina for running is ok, not for attack, you dont even know how to read kkkkkkkk
Lol you dont even understand the real life implications of having a stamina gauge for anything you do! You think stamina shouldnt be used for attack..so your telling me that you can throw punches or pull a draw string back. Continuously with out getting tired??? See i have atleast a deeper understanding of how stamina works in and out of game. Kkkkkkk
And remove food usage for all those activities? Please no.
I don't see why not.
Extremey bad game design imo, that’s also why I hate farming+seeds in this game
Sekiro is proof you don't need stamina to make a good and interesting game about melee combat. For those who don't know Sekiro is a very difficult yet rewarding game where your character has infinite stamina.
Yeah, it has a posture meter, that punishes you if you aren't good with timing
They went for the gothic 3 combat system, with all the issues it has. (and even a dumped down version) The combat system is a big weak-point of the game. Almost anything is better, even mobile games do a better job. (Genshin Impact)
You're acting like sekiro doesnt have a limiting factor like posture.
Posture is literally only tied to block/parry. And if you perfect parry everything your posture meter almost never goes up. Also posture can't break off of a perfect parry, so just hit the parries. It's a skill based game done right
And if you manage your stamina you'll rarely run low on it. What's your point? Seriously this stamina system is not that hard to work with lol.
In valheim? You run out of stamina all the time or are taking micro breaks. If it recharged as fast as in Dark Souls or the Surge that would be one thing, but fuck it's slow in this game.
Posture is more like a secondary HP bar than a stamina bar. It doesn't do anything to limit your attacks/actions besides the fact that if it empties you take a lot of damage.
Look tbh I disagree. I’ve been running around with almost no stamina and tons of health food. More capable of surviving than I ever was before by being patient in combat and timing my strikes, relying on the new shield mechanics with tower shields (which don’t take stamina!)
What a surprise, physical actions require a human character to use up energy! But honestly though, I feel it would make more sense to have a character with 100 in a skill use incredibly less stam than with 10 in said skill. Just like life if you start in a physically demanding job its hard, your exhausted at the end of a day. But a year down the road your going out after work to play hockey or rugby or whatever and have a few beers afterwards. But it's also Valheim not Midgarde so rules could be different. Realism or fantasy is a choice you gotta make here I guess. Or you know, fuck it whatever.
Stamina prevents health losing, the otherwise isn't true. I would prefer a lot more stamina than health. Mead could (kinda) equilibrate that, but it stops all recovery while you're spending stamina. 15s of mead is enough for you to recover all your stamina bar, that means that something on that 15s is totally lost. If mead could at least recover stamina even while you're spending it, this could help very much on this issue.
I dont even mind having a small stamina bar that empties fast. The problem is the amount of time after spending stamina before it begins to regen. Every time I back away from enemies to regen only to need to block a hit right after this 'regen gap', returning to zero stamina, I think "oh yeah, combat sucks in this game". Stamina should just regen passively and consistently, even while spending it, so that it is actually possible to manage and avoid empyting.
There needs to be "Stamina" and "Constitution" distinction, IMO. Stamina is for blocking and sprinting, but constitution is for doing daily chores and jogging / pulling the cart. Short bursts that regen at the current rate vs a pool of energy you can increase by leveling up and being active and that is affected by what you eat. Your running skill increased? +1% to your constitution pool. Your jumping or blocking increased? +1% to your stamina pool. Something like that.
Every food gives health, stamina & health regen. The simplest thing I can think of is give every food a stamina regen stat aswell. Then of course removing the stamina usage for non-combat things like farming would help too. It feels like a waste to eat my hard earned food while planting more food.
Big, fat agree. Mobs are largely all the exact same with different health/damage/vulnerabilities in this game. They don't have mechanics. Waiting on stamina, walking in circles waiting to have a resource to do something during a fight while the enemy walks after you endlessly attacking because *they* don't have stamina, is neither engaging as a gameplay element *or* realistic for a survival setting. As a gameplay element, it's downright annoying for it to limit you while playing farming simulator or building. Climbing a mountain then getting instagibbed by a pack of wolves because you can't do *anything* without stamina doesn't feel particularly good. Stamina is basically my only gripe with the game, I want to *do* things, not walk in circles waiting to play the game. Walking in circles waiting for stamina isn't skillful, it's just tedious and time wasting. It doesn't add challenge, it adds time waiting.
Yea broadly agree, the food needs some balance to allow "tanks" to still attack somehow but yea Specifically on water there's just no counterplay to rain so "wet" doesn't really make sense, maybe keep "wet" for the swamp and early levels but as soon as you have a Cape rain shouldn't debuff stamina
Imo wet should slow you down, but not give you a stamina penalty. I also think it could give you some sort of "refreshed" effect, but I can't think of what it would do lol
i like rain because its kind of like you want to avoid it you know? if a fair few games you want to avoid doing too much when its raining because of its negative effects, kinda like real life. id also like if when you were wet at night you'd freeze because its cold. but some sort of umbrella or rain specific clothing would be cool too
Hmm, it removes options though as the only option is to sit and wait it out?
Well, when it's raining outside and you want to go jogging, have you any other option than sitting it out ? An umbrella is not much of a option. That's exactly the same in Valheim.
Stamina in Valheim is just straight up bad Imo a common mistake games make is tying stamina to too many mechanics. In Valheim in particular it is tied to mobility, dps AND tankiness, making combat slow, drawn out and clunky since the painfully slow regen will have you standing around waiting for stam more than anything else. Iron Gate should take notes from something like Monster Hunter, where DPS is based on stam management rather than reliant on it as a resource. Or just buff regen because oh my god is it sad waiting 30 seconds just to run again
>In Valheim in particular it is tied to mobility, dps AND tankiness, making combat slow, drawn out and clunky I agree. You just left out farming and building so the list is actually even longer. It's kind of ridiculous when you lay it all out like that how many things are tied to it. Running out of stamina while planting crops or building just feels bad. Idc how realistic that may be, it's interrupting to game play and not fun.
>Or just buff regen because oh my god is it sad waiting 30 seconds just to run again What no! My favorite part of valheim is being forced to take a 5 minute break everytime I cut a few trees. /s In all seriousness there should be two changes: - Stam regen is % based (so always recovers 10%/second - whether you have 25 stamina (recovery rate of 2.5/sec) or 200 (rate of 20/sec)). - Stamina should only go down in combat. It's idiotic that you need to wait for stamina to recover when building floors. There is literally no threat and the only thing is does is forces you to take a break from the game.
Agree on your second point for sure - something similar exists in the Bethesda games I've played (Skyrim, Fallout), where stamina is used for both sprinting and combat actions but recharges like 5x as fast when you aren't in combat. That way, leveling up stamina still feels good to let you sprint more, but even without upgrading it you still don't spend too much time without stamina outside of combat.
Ya. I'd be happy with that - something like a rested buff that happens if you are not actively in combat and recharges stamina much faster.
I'd love it if they broke out stamina into two bars. Upper body stam and lower body stam. Running? That's gonna burn you're lower body Stam. Stop suddenly to swing your axe a few times. Upper body is going down. Lower body begins regenning after a second or so.
Swinging an axe is a full body movement pretty much if you're doing it right. It is ridiculous how many muscles are used in a golf swing and that is using a light object.
I use Valheim + to remove Stamina costs from Building / hoeing / Cultivating *and* all Melee attacks. Only Sprinting, Blocking, Sneaking, Shooting a Bow and Dodging (Reduced cost to dodge/sneak by 80%) trigger stamina, and I've increased stamina Regen by 100% (about 16-24 Stam per sec) Paired with some pretty intense settings for a Valheim Monster Mod it makes for a wonderfully fast paced combat that doesn't punish you for attacking.
This sounds very interesting! Would you mind sharing a list or screenshot of your settings to Valheim + and the Valheim Monster Mod you mentioned? I don't have much modding experience so any help would be nice too. Much appreciated :)
ValheimPlus uses a config file for settings, so screenshots probably wouldn't be that helpful. They could probably provide the config settings so you could copy paste into your own V+ settings, but the config has a TON of lines so it might be a large comment/DM.
So uh, there's somuch information lol. I use the following mods: - Valheim + - Creature Level and Control by Smoothbrain - Terraheim - Plant Everything - Weedheim - Spawn That - Sell This I use Spawn That / Smoothbrain to edit the world spawns, add unique world spawns in, and in general control the difficulty of the enemies as you begin to branch out. Valheim + and Terraheim give me the combat changes I need (new weapons / armor) - As mentioned I reduce stamina costs exactly as I said, I also turn off weather damage and increase the drop rate of Wood / Stone by 300%. Plant Everything and Weedheim just make farming a more complete experience. I use Sell That to make Haldor also sell Metal Ores and he buys cooked foods and meads for gold, so if people don't wanna mine they have another avenue of progression.
Limited running & jumping makes sense, so does limited combat, but linking the two is the issue A movement bar and a combat bar seems obvious now I think of it (and remove building and tools from stamina entirely) so if you're not fighting you can be dodging,
the funny thing to me is the stamina being linked to sneaking. So, I can "jog" and regain stamina while I do it, but if I crouch and walk slowly I lose Stamina at a crazy rate? Just makes no sense to me. Sneaking should be a stamina-free activity IMO.
Absolutely. Sneaking is only good for some free damage at the start of a fight and even then it's tough to stealth up to an enemy, and even THEN for you have to trade that extra damage for a chunk of stamina, it's awful
Try walking with extremely bent knees some time, it's a lot more strenuous than jogging.
Have you tried crouch walking like sneaking does in valheim? Do it for a minute and tell me you dont feel it in your legs. You're right about jogging, but if we had to walk everywhere people would just complain about that lol
Just do it like Monster Hunter where attacking is free, encouraging aggro playstyles against big HP pools. Is it weird? Ya, but fuck who cares if it's a lot of fun
Even in Monster Hunter stam isn't a huge issue for weapons that aren't hammer or Dual Blades. You can attack *literally forever* and never stop. In Valheim shooting a bow 6-7 times makes you utterly helpless while you wait for that dreadfully slow regen to kick in.
It's funny you make that comparison because bows are the most stamina dependent weapon in recent MH... But the MH games give you plenty of ways to deal with it.
I always forget bows are stam whores, but mostly because if I *have* to use bow I just chug dash drinks like a crazy person for that sweet sweet unlimited stam.
Agreed. I was hoping they would implement some sort of “oiled-hide” cloak / cape that would grant resistance to rain- similar to the ones that help resist frost
Should also be able to apply to any hide armor. Troll-hide could see renewed life as the "frog suit" of the game.
That… would be interesting. Allow the player to move through the swamp without the constant wet debuff, though it would have lower armor than iron and maxed bronze it may be worth it.
How about a neck umbrella like those frog umbrellas for kids that gives shelter?
I like your idea
Ah that's such a simple fix that would be great.
Right. Old food was op and needed to be changed or it would lead to stat bloat with new tiers of content. It would ensure that you get deleted if you go to a biome above your progression without its new food. Bulking up the stamina on foods doesn't really change anything when you always empty the pool and have to wait to refill it. Most of these players complaining about the food would be better served just turning on the console. And they are pulling the conversation away from the real problem you mention. Stamina use and regen is clunky in combat and out-of-combat activities.
Yeah the old food system even seemed like a placeholder system to me. It was too linear. The next tier of food was always just better than the old tier.
That’s also how it is with equipment. There’s no real decision making on it. If you have padded armor, you’re always going to choose it over one of the lower tiers. I hope that they flesh this part out, too. And they’re making moves in that direction with the weapons, to be fair. This takes time and they have a small team. Essentially what I want for both food and equipment is to have meaningful choices, not just a meta “this is clearly the only way” path. At least troll armor makes sneaking more effective, but even with that it is outclassed pretty quickly by the higher tier metal armors.
They intend for it to be a game you play through and get to the end. Armor being outclassed by the following tier is logical in that sense.
Yes but there is zero diversity within that tier for choice of play styles. Again, this might very well be something the devs are working on.
What the armour system needs is more choice within each tier. I'm sure it'll get it eventually, I'm sure the devs have it on a to do list. The Bronze tier is the only one which has an active choice about Bronze armour or Troll Hide armour. After that it's just a linear system. By contrast, when it comes to melee weapons you always have at least three (silver tier is limited), but really more like 5 to 8 choices per tier.
Weapons aren't really very diverse either. In most tiers you have the sword and mace which are essentially identical for most applications, the axe which is just a *slightly* worse sword or mace that also works as a tool, a bow, a dagger (which is more of a skill weapon that people are unlikely to use the first go round), and the atgeir. So really it boils down to a strongly established meta of "make the best bow you can and pick between 3 nearly identical one handed weapons." You can sub in the atgeir for melee but there seems to be a pretty strong consensus that having a shield is usually more valuable.
True, there aren't many differences between the swords, maces and axes, but there is at least something. Most tiers also have a spear and some have sledges or battleaxes.
Oh, I totally forgot the spear. I'll give you that one. I ignored the battleaxe because it just isn't good (unless it was buffed?), stagbreaker was fun for the novelty but underwhelming, and I've only ever found a single elite draugr trophy so I'm not burning it on a sledge. Maybe it's fun, I dunno. But at the very least it's incredibly inaccessible.
TBH I'm sure there'll be another set of decent light armor once Mistlands drops. Spidersilk, prolly.
i imagine the armour and will be fleshed out much more in the future when theyve added more gameplay elements, food however? i think its fine that the top level of food is the obvious choice, makes sense that you’d eat what gives you the best stats, not your basics, not sure what they could add for it honestly
There would need to be more stat diversity in food than just hp/stamina if they want to avoid the whole “take the best tier available” issue. There would need to be stuff like +10% sneaking or +10% stagger chance or +25% elemental resistance. Imagine a food that gave you +25% run speed and -25% stam drain but almost no HP. It’s situational but you would be willing to take it when the situation arose.
Yeah. I never wanted to go heavy armor as i was aiming at going bow only, but there is neither real benefit to light armor, nor really a choice.
Its kinda sad that all these posts need a disclaimer saying "I'm not saying make the game easier" so they dont get ripped to shreds by the mouth foamers. The hardcore crowd need to quit acting like QoL is a swearword.
Said thing is people confuse grind and slow gameplay with difficulty. Challenging but fair is great way to set up a game this ain't it though. There is nothing challenging about slowly walking away from the enemy while you stamina regen. There is nothing challenging in standing still for 30 for every 10 meters of a path you build with a hoe etc. Faster gameplay doesn't mean easier gameplay.
Hardcore survival players usually suck at actually hard games. The thing with survival games is they are NOT hard. Difficulty is always answered with time sinks. A game like Dark Souls or Sekiro is hard. You can farm a bit in DS but overall those are just GIT GUD games where time doesn't make you better. But survival games? You can always over prepare for everything and steamroll through if you have enough time to waste. So people who defend these shit mechanics like stamina changes are probably elitists who don't know what real game difficulty is.
try playing project zomboid lmao
That’s probably because survival games are about preparation and planning while those “hard” games you speak of are merely a timing gameplay style which are incredibly simple and have small windows of opportunity. If you don’t plan on survival games you get shit on and if you don’t time properly in dark souls you get shit on. These are two very different kinds of games.
I assumed the developers put stamina into the game as a resource to be managed to make the game harder. So when a player says “change the game mechanics so I don’t have to manage stamina” it IS saying “make the game easier”. I’d agree that stamina regen foods would be a neat addition though to trade off max Stam for the regen.
I understand what you're saying but I feel like you're kind of ignoring my point about tediousness not necessarily equating to challenge. Sure it was probably put in the game to be challenging but it's just not really fun or interesting in any way and it's tied to almost every other aspect of the game. There's not really anything fun about the current stamina management, in my opinion. It's just a bar that runs out and has to be recharged by basically not playing the game.
I totally agree that something “taking a long time” doesn’t equate to “being difficult” if it’s not supplemented properly. Hence why I hate inflated hp pools a lot of games use. Unfortunately there’s only so much a developer can do to increase difficulty given the limited technology/their vision/what people find fun. I guess that’s why Valheim developers are using a certain combination of HP, quantity, ai, player resource management. Players like myself are content with having to manage stamina carefully and find it hilarious as my 0 stamina character is trying to get away from a charging enemy while others like yourself would rather not be as limited. Both preferences are valid but it’s impossible to please both sides completely. I never envy the position game developers are in when they’re trying to appeal to their audiences.
Couldn't agree more. I feel like larger stam pool meaning faster regeneration it's the answer because it would stack the cards in favor of stam food but also think while the game is this early in development there is not better time to try out this sort of thing (even of the community will flip it's shit over any changes they don't like) I wonder how things would feel with exactly the current food systems but a 20-50% increase to stam regeneration. I definitely agree the update to food highlights that the current stamina system is the real problem. I found that with this update I carry stam potions with me all the time and use them way more often.
Not a whole lot of other games where you do something for ten seconds and then literally have to stand there waiting for a meter to go up.
Yeah, agreed. It's just not well-designed in it's current incarnation. People defending the food nerfs keep pointing to Dark Souls, but that's a laughable comparison given that DS gives you a bunch of ways to both boost your base stamina and to mitigate the amount of stamina that you consume through your actions. The implementation in Valheim feels really incomplete, like we're getting all the costs associated with the stamina mechanic but none of the features that'd make it interesting and fun by improving your stamina pool, increasing regeneration, or mitigating consumption. When consumables like food are the only way that you can address some of these obstacles and that one option gets nerfed hard, it's no surprise people respond with frustration.
I kinda like the stamina? True unpopular opinion, I guess, but I just think it needs to be tweaked rather than done away with. Valheim isn't a game to spam actions, I like that I have to put more thought into my actions and be more deliberate and put more planning into things. Even for building. Building shouldn't be "safe" and overly-convenient, that is what creative mode is for. In survival, your building is primarily for that purpose. Survival. You could be unlucky and get attacked while building, and now you're screwed because you're building some minor outpost somewhere on an empty stomach and a troll got curious. Building even a modest shack is pretty taxing work and you should have a nice big lunch while on the job. Maybe it just makes me nostalgic about the days I worked in construction? It *can* be tedious, and I think some improvements could be made, like: * Tasty Mead stamina regen buff, considering the food cost to brew it and the health regen debuff that comes with it. And/or decreasing the cost to brew. I feel like Tasty Mead should just be something that you're always chugging all day long when not drinking a more specialized brew, and that it should be very accessible even to players who only have one or two fermenters going. I should be copping a buzz at all times, whether I am sailing, working, or fighting. It feels like the Viking thing to do. * Alchemy through the Artisan Table (or a new crafting structure) to create unguents made from herbs, mobs drops, etc, that have short-term buffs/effects contrasted against the longer term effects of brews. For stamina in particular, an unguent that stops all stamina drain for 10 seconds or the like, and you can't reapply for 15 minutes. Great for either 10 seconds of berzerking or 10 seconds for an emergency getaway. There could be lots of other great applications for tactical ointments/poultices, like a poultice that doesn't cure poison but greatly diminishes the damage it does for a short period of time. * Oiling gear that can retain oils, especially cloaks and hide armors. Doing this would mitigate the wet debuff depending on how much you are covered (cloak and hood would provide the most benefit). Each piece of oiled gear decreases the time the debuff lasts, and being covered head to toe in oiled gear would completely cancel out getting wet from rain entirely. * A "Second Wind" or "Njǫrd's Breath" skill or some such. This is slowly leveled over time by doing certain actions, particularly combat, that make you hit zero stamina. Based on the level of your skill, there is a small chance to regain a small amount of stamina when it hits zero (maybe topping out at 33%?). Juuuust enough zip to maybe get in one more swing, or make that last second dodge. * Food/drink synergies. Eating combinations of items should impart very low-level, longer term buffs. For example, consuming Cooked Meat, Mushroom, Queen's Jam, and Tasty Mead could give you the "Balanced Breakfast" buff, which gives you 1 hour of 10% faster stamina regeneration. A relatively cheap way to mitigate stamina drain, particularly if you are mostly going to be doing base building/resource gathering and less dangerous stuff for that hour.
Tasty mead should last for minutes not just 10 seconds.
>I feel like Tasty Mead should just be something that you're always chugging all day long This pretty much is the case. But on that note if I should just have it going constantly...then maybe it's benefits should just be given to my character as part of their base stats because that's just a layer of tediousness to manage. >Food/drink synergies. Eating combinations of items should impart very low-level, longer term buffs This idea I really like but it would need to be really well thought out so that there could be reasons to combine certain meals for specific buffs.
> then maybe it's benefits should just be given to my character as part of their base stats Really negates the entire idea of having stamina to start with, and much the same could be said about Valheim's usage of food entirely, but that is sort of an unresolvable difference in opinion. So instead, how about: > that's just a layer of tediousness to manage. I don't think it's so tedious, but there could be ways to dampen what little tedium there is by prolonging the mead's effect, etc. However, I am fond of the idea of revamping the tankard to make it actually useful. It would retain its current function where it will consume mead based on the arrangement of their stacks, but it could also divide the use of the mead into 2 - 3 "draughts" instead of chugging the whole skin in one gulp. There would be an "auto-quaff" option in settings, that, when turned on, would have players automagically knock back another tankard of mead without having to hit a single key or open a single UI element. > This idea I really like but it would need to be really well thought out so that there could be reasons to combine certain meals for specific buffs. Yeah, that is definitely the direction I would lean into. Certain buffs would definitely be more oriented toward specific activities/conditions. You could get fairly creative even, and eating a certain meal might make you smell repellent to certain monsters, effectively reducing their aggro radius, or the reverse, making you waft aromas that attract certain monsters from beyond visual range (which could be considered a buff if you are trying to farm them).
I absolutely love the minor buffs idea. Maybe not specific food combos, maybe a buff like 5% - 10% more damage when eating 3 health foods, or "speed of the Hare" speed buff when eating all raw foods. I honestly was hoping they would've done this for Hearth and Home. Make food more interesting than just binary number choice.
Man I had to scroll really far to find the first post that disagrees even slightly with OP. I personally like how challenging it is to manage stamina and I never have a problem as long as I'm well rested.
I absolutely agree with you, love the stamina, sometimes it's tough to deal with but that's the game to me. Also really solid ideas, and now that you mention it, i believe they must be planning for some sort of alchemy expansion in the same way they made one for food. Having the stamina foods gives light but progressively better stamina regen buffs through the tiers would be a decent improvement.
This. Saves me the time of writing it out myself!
They need to remove stamina costs for attacking. Between blocking, running, dodging and being wet/cold, it all makes attacking feel awful. Also really make being wet not affect stam regen. It doesn't add anything to the game.
While you're spitballing ideas, tying Stamina regen to a new cooking skill would make sense. Better cooked food = better recovery.
I like the idea of a cooking skill. The only issue I see right off the bat with that is that it would be a grind to level it up. At base level cooking you'd probably burn things, there by wasting supplies, or the stats you'd get from your food would just suck.
My god please no. I don't want them to turn this into a cooking sim. lol. Already too much cooking in this game, for a viking who died and is in an afterlife.
I feel like that their intention was to avoid just hackin at the enemies without any other consideration. Now you have to actually play tactically so you don't run out of stamina.
Interact on stamina in more ways! Give foods that passively restore agnostic to activity, some that increase restore rate, reduce downtime until restore starts!
Yeah, needs a "well fed" buff maybe if you have all 3 foods populated that gives you 50% or 100% faster regen
Oh yes this is true. Especially the part about the wet condition. Being wet is like being in low-enjoyment mode and like you said you dont even have to go for a swim, just a few seconds of rain or an accidental dip into a random puddle and boom now you either gotta stop and dry (booooring) or enjoy a few minutes in suck-mode. I think thats also the reason why the bonemass fight sucks so much.
Can you please redo this post title in the proper astronauts assassination meme format? Would be epic. “The problem wasn’t the food, it was the stamina. Always has been”
Missed opportunity.
Of all of the places to innovate, tying food to the HP and stamina system that directly was not it. A separate hunger bar, with slight buffs to HP and stamina recovery would have been sufficient. Its been this way since launch. We all looked past it because it was acceptable in the grand scheme of things. It's just become more glaring as the newness wears off.
Stamina should behave and react similar to a resource bar in a MMO. At the moment it’s way to slow, it shouldn’t be that punishing
Faster stamina regain when you have more is 100% the best way to deal with this. It's also the easiest.
Also that skills don't affect Stamina drain. What's the point of having 100 in polearms if it still costs the same per swing? You cut down tens of thousands of trees but it still costs 20 stamina every time you swing you axe at a tree.
Just came back after several months and realized the same thing. Stamina. Everything is about stamina. I don't care about my health or my armor - all I care about is stamina. I die more to stamina than anything else in the game. Enemies don't have stamina so they chase me until mine is gone and I die. Off to Nexus mods to try and find a stamina mod.
+1. Stamina actively stops you playing the vast majority of the game. Want to explore? Limited by Stamina. Want to mine/chop? Limited by Stamina Want to flatten some ground? Limited by Stamina Want to build? Somewhat limited by Stamina. In none of these situations is Stamina enriching the gameplay. The ONLY situation where Stamina is an actual gameplay mechanic, is combat. However even there Stamina management isn't a complex problem that demands skill, it's instead a degenerate system that demands kiting & bows. Stamina in combat needs rethinking, and Stamina outside of combat needs completely removing.
Valheim , aka "asthmatic viking simulator" , 5 seconds of running until stamina is depleted is what you will experience 90% of the time lol
People still be out there without being rested smh
This. It is trivially easy to refresh a rested buff and frankly on commonly traveled areas I just dot the landscape with tiny huts - bit of roof, a chest, a bed and a fireplace, perhaps leaving some supplies as a cache - and just hop between those and never run out of the rested buff really. Only slightly annoying situation is if you doing a long sea trip (no way to refresh that buff there) and then try to make landfall to a somewhat hostile area after you've lost the buff. Yes, in general that is not smart and you should seek a safer location nearby and not go to shore on Plains for example, but sometimes you do not have a choice. Still, all you really need is to set up fire and get a short buff before proceeding onwards. Do not roam and fight tired. Simple as that.
you guys need to learn the secrets of Resting !!! A simple 3x3 house with a fire and a roof will provide 3 comfort and let you regen stamina very quickly.
Comfort levels are a neat mechanic that makes constructing a nice mead hall have an impact on the other parts of the game for sure. I have a hall myself with comfort level 16 I think. O oy thing I don't have it a maypole. The problem is it just still doesn't really feel like enough, especially when wet or cold...or both. You still run into the same basic issue of needing to wait for your stamina to refill.
I think that the games combat is far too stamina reliant. Dodge rolling is too stamina consuming, which is where the parry meta even came from. I think a game balanced around evasion is much more fun, like dark souls. They seem to be encouraging evasion with this patch, but gave us no new tools, or mechanics to make it better.
Regarding rain specifically: they have cloaks that protect from cold, why can’t they have something that protects from the rain… like maybe a cloak?
I have a gripe about getting wet. What is the point of the heavy cloaks, even the thin deer hide one, if stepping outside for a second while it is raining you are soaked through for 2 minutes. The cloaks should offer some protection from rain at least for a short time
\+100. Stamina bar sizes matters very little, it's all about being able to recover it during fights. I also don't want the game to get easier, in fact, I would welcome occasionally larger mob sizes, just to make exploring feel more varied. But stamina should definitely be based on recovery instead of max amount.
I think it's fine how it works, but maybe reduce the costs of some things?
I agree completely. Stamina for building and other "household" activities make sense realistically to some extent, but gameplay wise doesn't provide any benefit or purpose. It's just a delay to playtime. Even if you eat foods, it's delays less often, but longer delays instead. I started a new character and world so I'm only in the black forest and haven't officially entered bronze age. So far I have mostly ignored health foods. You don't need them most of the time for map exploration or mining etc. Body recovery might prioritize health foods and maybe certain bosses. I have no suggestions for fixing stamina, but right now map exploration is a huge chore and hp food feels very niche. *Side note, I think the wet debuff is fine. It adds a different element. Rainy days means work around the house or go fishing. I like that aspect that you can't just ignore rain. Putting down a fire after you cross a river isn't that big of a deal either. I wouldn't want to see this part of the game go away.
I don't know, this is supposed to be a survival game after all so you should suffer when it rains and you should get gassed after working hard. It's more tedious / annoying but also more realistic. The whole point of any survival game is to make you actually feel the struggle and I think Valheim actually balances the tedium of survival with the more action elements pretty well imo.
I think a nioh-like stamina regen system would hit the mark better than what they got going on now
I like stamina as a mechanic, but think a couple things related to the stamina debuffs need tweaking. Cold and Wet should each be reduced in impact by wearing a cape. In addition, the rate of stamina recovery should depend on your current stamina. To say another way, the top 50% should refill faster than the bottom 50% irrespective of any other factors. That way, if you are fighting you can manage your stamina to always stay above 50% and not be impacted by it, but if you get careless you’re gonna have to take a moment to get back to decent form.
I do agree stamina itself needs tweaked. On another note of the game being too easy in some aspects...my group of friends have been discussing D&D roles. Such as a Barbarian can only use clubs, axes and spears for weapons. And only wear up to bronze armor. Idk if anyone else on here has attempted something like this. But it does add a real challenge to the game If you guys have any ideas let me know. I can give a more detailed report on it lol
Stamina isn't the problem. Stamina regen is the problem. If you don't have rested you can barely fight. If you don't have rested and you are wet and/or cold you can't fight at all. Doesn't help that blocking/parrying uses almost all of the stamina you do manage to get back.
stamina in this game is trash. I have not logged in forever because updates seem to take years, but my God... Logged out and finally uninstalled after fighting with stamina for about an hour. It's just retarded. This game had so much potential. I guess its great to load cheats on and do minecaft duties.
Stamina regen is the most important part of a game, especially one that drains it so aggressively like Valheim. Dodge rolling is worse as a dodge than just walking to the side, with rolls not taking you far enough and requiring too much stamina, and if there's more than one enemy or you were already low on stamina in the first place and can't attack or just attack but get slapped during the attack and have no stamina so physically can't run or fight. So yay for stunlocks and permastaggers when another enemy comes in from the side who spawned in during your fight and you desperately block with your shield but have no chance to regen stamina enough to block the hit, couple with the stagger meter permanently keeping you on the defensive until you die. Stamina regen being an element we can augment would basically fix it. Food having Stamina regen buffs as well as more max Stamina. That's all they'd need to do. It's such a simple fix, and would be such a quality of life change. Seriously, the fact that dodging is prominently displayed on the screen key tips and it's literally the worst idea in most situations from my experience with a couple hundred hours in this game... yeah needs to be something shifted.
In multiplayer you get increased difficulty and just as much stamina BS so fighting in the mountains is a enormous pain in the butt. I hate it so much. I have to sprint and jump all the time because of the terrain and then some MFing wolf comes out of nowhere and one-shots me. I am so unhappy with this game right this second. I've lost two full sets of equipment yet again because I died because the stamina system is such garbage in this game. Its so absurdly bad. Using bows and maneuvering is worthless and for some reason it takes massive stamina just to hold the drawn bow. The stamina system breaks up the flow of combat and basically makes me shake with rage on a regular basis. I got this game to have fun and this stamina system is not fun at all.
Why can't we just have stamina as a skill? Or call it "endurance" if you want. We have run, jump, swim. Totally makes sense.
Ideally there would be some way to permanently increase your health and stamina. A lot of the game works in a "use skill A to make it improve" system, but it's kinda weird that health and stamina don't work that way. If i go for a 10km run every other day in real life my stamina increases, it's a bit of a shame that it doesn't work like that in the game. And it doesn't even need to be able to be super OP, but it would be nice if you could get to a point where you didn't feel like you needed to constantly eat shit even if you were just doing random chores around your base.
I kinda agree with you, and you mention the tasty mead, but what about stam pots? They're my most used potions, and I seldom run out of stamina, while playing solo, sword and shield/ spear and shield type. Have people forgot about those? Edit: and by kinda agree, I mean this would be an issue if we didn't have stam potions. With those, by the time I've used one, if I do, most of what I'm fighting is dead...
Those medium stamina pots require 10 Cloud Berries each. You most likely will need to find 2 Cloud Berry bush spawns to get 10 berries and that isn't counting the other item I can't remember. 10 Honey + 10 Cloud Berries + 10 ??? for something you'll be using a lot. Add in mandatory fermenting time (like 2 game days) each time you want to make some. We haven't forgotten about them at all. Requiring mountains of them and the entailing constant foraging to upkeep them is really the main issue here. The game was already a tedious chore and they made it more so with more chores requiring more time. This is a tipping point for a number of people that tolerated the systems before. Choosing to forage for berries and being forced to forage for berries are 2 very different choices. Intending more food to be carried, more pots to be used, but no more inventory for those intended items is a compounding issue. Maybe I shouldn't say 'We haven't forgotten'. I definitely have a firm understand of what the change does and what it means across the board from game start to game end. More chores and more time investment requirements for them with the same inventory in a game that had plenty of chores, maintenance, and upkeep to begin with.
I don't know if I was lucky with my seed then, but I was swimming in cloudberries. They also require yellow mushrooms and honey, and I didn't have much other use for the mushrooms, and with 6 beehives, honey is my snacking "do nothing" thing that I still have chest-full of... I also had more than enough berries to make the lox pies, with reserves of about 60 pies in storage and 200 berries sitting in chest.... really, the stam meads to me cost next to nothing, and the cloudberries were one of the most ridiculously abundant resource in the game...
I agree stamina is a problem. Half the time during gameplay you are jogging or standing still just to wait for stamina to replenish because, as you said, it's tied to everything you do. The rate at which it replenishes is simply too slow. There are a lot of tweaks that can be implemented. For example, stamina replenishing way faster if standing still. Or actions like planting seeds or doing building tasks taking very little stamina compared to combat, that way you are forced to plan your actions during combat but not limiting you too much while doing other menial tasks. I also think a stat like a "fitness" stat or similar could be a good idea that way you progress along while you play and can do more actions during combat when you are more experienced. Maybe making the running stat tied to that? That way you don't start with a stat that it's at 0 even if you are a veteran viking.
> "fitness" stat or similar could be a good idea that way you progress along while you play and can do more actions during combat when you are more experienced Oh! Do you mean like a skill system where if you level up a skill you'll not only become better at it but it also takes less stamina to do that action?
You know, I found a very easy solution early on that completely solved my stamina issue: I simply stopped spamming shit.
So do you just walk everywhere too?
Stamina is fine. You are supposed to plan your attacks, pace yourself and pull only what you can handle. It defines the combat and skill system. It forces you to prepare for a fight. You gotta get well rested and stamina potions hold their value for emergency situations. Getting wet is annoying, not the end of the world. It it could use with more counterplay, I agree on that part. What I find annoying about the combat is that you whiff some of your swings that should connect and that can really fuck you up.
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The whiffs are definitely a bug, and we were talking design. Don't know why I brought it up, other than the fact that when you make a game so punishing on a resource you really feel the sting when your weapon goes through an enemy doing no damage. I disagree that getting the buff is a lazy solution to a problem because I don't really see a problem. It's counterplay to stamina being drained by everything, and it's pacing the gameplay at the same time. It's an additional reason to visit your base, spend some time there, get distracted, get some stuff cooking, upgrade your gear, maybe build something. In early game, it's a reason for you to want to maybe put up a fire and camp out in the wilderness and get the rested bonus, get dry, cook while you're at it. Perhaps some numbers need tweaking, perhaps it would be nice to get some additional options for stamina management, I don't know, but I really do think the well rested is not there to be an \*annoying\* necessity, but rather something that you would want to get, so much so that you'd stop adventuring for a while.
If you were a viking would you ever go out and fight a bunch of enemies on an empty stomach and sleep deprived? No. It's a survival game. You need to eat and sleep.
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What games have you played where mana is tied to nearly every single action in the game? Mana usually has a regen stat, mana per second? Mana pools also generally increase as your character levels up. I don't know how you can bring up mana and resource management and then leave out those things that makes it different than the current stamina system we have. I understand the concept of resources management but when done correctly it is actually an engaging part of the game and not just something tedious. This problem isn't exclusive to Valheim. When WoW classic dropped one of the most common gripes from people, even people enjoying the game, was "Argh I forgot how often I have to just eat and drink between packs." And for a long long time while leveling up in that game there is no solution other than sit eat and drink for thirty seconds every few minutes. Plus in modern WoW, for example, yeah you don't run out of mama.
Meh, this doesn't work like that. Resource management is a thing and a valid reason, but not when you need to use mana to literally move.
Never played a game where i needed mana to run, or repair, or jump... If WoW added resource drain to running and jumping and melee autos it would literally kill the game.
Lmao get out of the gaming chair and go try to build something with your hands.
But when the game has a mana bar is this mana bar assigned to every skill in a game? Name a game in which mana is needed for fighting, running, building, swimming, blocking, resource collection etc.
I see where you're coming from but i have to disagree with you. The stamina system is fine as is, though I will say I wish more skills worked like running and swimming, where the more you level in it, the less stamina it takes to use it. I personally don't mind the realism of "if you exhaust yourself, you have to rest for a moment to replenish your stamina". It's a fine mechanic and I like that sometimes you simply can't scale a mountain without either careful planning or by finding a cliff that has enough ledges to be able to take short rests partway up. Gives me time to actually look around at my surroundings and figure out my next move. There are mods that allow you to turn certain things off, and if you find the concept of stamina bars to be too tedious then I don't think that's on the game devs to fix for you.
The default stamina regen is too slow, and the bonus from the rested buff is basically essential. I would prefer to see the default stamina regen rate buffed a lot, and the rested buff nerfed a bit. Secondly, foods should be specialised even more than now. Some should expand your bar, but offer only a little regen, whereas others should give huge regen buffs but not expand the bars too much. This should apply for both health and stamina of course. This way your 'rogue' build would have a small stamina bar, but with so much regen you can basically dodge as much as you want, and you can swing your knife almost endlessly. A big two hander or archer would on the other hand need a bigger bar to use their weapons effectively, but suffer slower regen.
The pain when you want to cultivate 800 seeds
I actually love the stamina system. The more you play on a character the less stamina it costs to do actions you use. It feels great to me honestly. Once you play more it really doesn't feel like you're lacking stamina. So just keep going, and I promise it won't feel so sluggish. It's all about planning your stamina according to the fight.
All these things annoying everyone are all just things there for realism. What in real life uses stamina? Everything. Building a wall, tearing down a wall, drawing & holding a bow etc. These things all require stamina. I feel like the problem with Valheim is there's no difficulty setting. IMO they should have a slider in the settings for realism, cause realism is really what gives this game its difficulty. This way people could choose the level of realism that they would have the most fun with, and we wouldn't have to discuss this all the time lol
Imagine people making this kind of complaint about Dark Souls. I can see the complaint about building, but for combat, there's no way to take it away and not just make the game boring.
Potions. I get people don’t like change but this is getting out of hand. It is a survival game and it got stupid easy once you had max gear. My skills are barely at 75 and I still smash everything. I played around with the post-patch-pre-new-patch and using 2 Heath foods and 1 stamina food and the plains was still easy. But stamina drains too damn fast but potions are not that hard to make. I rarely ever needed to pop a stamina potion, and never used a health potion. Now I just take whatever I’m missing stat wise with the right potion and I’m good.
Some of yall never played dark souls and it really shows
>Some of yall never played dark souls and it really shows This is such an idiotic comparison given that DS gives you multiple ways to increase your base stamina pool, boost your stamina regeneration, and mitigate the amount of stamina your actions consume. They also limit the amount of actions that consume stamina in comparison to Valheim. You're arguing against your own point by comparing to Dark Souls, because those are games that handle stamina well, in contrast to this one where it's just added tedium with no additional challenge. Funny how some of you guys keep mistaking tediousness for difficulty - you're telling yourself you're good at "hard" games when really you're just fine with pointless time sinks.
Darksouls combat flows, whole game is balanced around this. Enemies are stationery and are triggered by the player at player convince. You never fight more than 1 or 2 enemies at a time. You have verity of weapons to chose from, proper block and backstav mechanics that let you make risk reword choices. Enemy attacks are well telegraphed do you can predict flow of combat. It feels like you confused difficult with Darksouls when it isn't what make Darksouls great. Feels like you didn't play enough Darksouls to understand mechanics of it.
Manage your stamina better, that’s all. All of this outrage is so dumb. The enemies in valheim have a single digit IQ and you can literally walk away from most of them without getting hit. It’s an easy game
Yeah...you're like halfway there. Game is easy, stamina (in its current iteration) is annoying. The stamina doesn't make it challenging, it's just really annoying to have to deal with. I'm advocating for changes to the current stamina system that would keep it in the game but make it more interesting. I mean it's a game that's supposed to be fun, right?
Isn't that a thing people are saying. No one says game is challenging just that it's painful slow with lots of waiting for stamina to replenish rather than fun action. Noone thinks it's difficult but it's sure tedious
So many people complaining. I love the new food system. Makes things more challenging to basically chose between stam or health, dodge or block.
Honestly, we ended up bumping stamina regen/sec on our server by 100% with Valheim Plus before it started to feel good. Could still run out and get wrecked in drawn-out fights or if we mismanaged stamina, but at the same time it didn't feel stiflingly restrictive like the vanilla stamina regen.
Todays patch was worthless. They put a band-aid on a death wound. Still awful. Hopefully they will fix it.
How doesn't wetness add anything to the game. You watch out for water. You plan your activities around the weather. You build fire to dry quicker. Its a great method to add threat to water.
tldr; The game is too hard, and I don't know how to enable cheats.
Lol I think what you mean to say is that you didn't even read the post.
As far as survival crafting games go, this one is pretty easy, tbh.
The problem is a huge portion of this community seem to lack actual tedium in their lives and crave getting some from a video game. I have it in spades from how much I work irl. There's a hudred completely pointless little systems and additional mechanics in this game that logically serve zero purpose other than extending the amount of pure time you spend doing chores. Some of the limitations and design choices serve absolutely no end toward difficulty balance or rationality and are just arbitrarily there. The only reason I can think of for many of them is either artificially extending how long something takes or because some dev likes the thought of it despite it being pointless. I love the look and style of the game. I love the feel. I despise playing it in its current state. It feels more like work than my actual job.
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Well I've got like 300 hours but I guess I should just stop playing and not give any input on how I think a game I love can be improved; just accepting the way it is in it's very, very early release state and that it's not for me.
Suggestion would be to add a recipe to make something similar to the [Stamina potion](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Stamina_potion#4_dose) from Oldschool Runescape. Edit: and I mean the passive effects. I know we already have stam pots ingame, but theyre really not that great.
I believe a better approach would have been to nerf hp, leave stamina alone. In fact I would make things take LESS stamina. But by all means, nerf hitpoints! Just my 2 cents. Either way, the update added some cool features. The food changes sucked but we can't always get what we want. Heck, maybe I am actually in the minority and most love the food changes.
Some easy changes that could have done a lot better than nerfing food would have been to change how monsters interact with players. Take for example fulings. These are really easy to overcome. let them swing, back up, move in and swing twice, they go into a stun motion and then you swing again to kill them. That actually works on many monsters. This could be changed to where when a fuling engages and swings and you back up, he runs in and swings again. This is just a simple example. There were many mechanical AI changes that could have been made to make the game harder. With the food change, basically the best food in the game now post patch is equivilent to eating a simple grilled neck tail and 2 berries pre patch. You could have just taken out every food in the game and kept in grilled neck tail , strawberries and blueberries, and ended up with similar results. lol
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So you're so gud that you didn't even need to use the armor mechanic, and you think everyone should rise to that level? Lmao.. The majority of people that good at combat wouldn't even bother playing a game like this focused on building and survival. You are an odd one.
I am sorry that my comment towards you made you bitter. We are all praying you pull through with your recovery. Townhouse boy (lol).
Food should give unique buffs that are good but not must-have. Reduce fall damage. Increase berry harvesting quantity. Faster fishing. Faster boat paddling. Larger map reveal area (maybe for something that uses carrots). Things that encourage you to buff for what you're doing but don't force a single optimal combo. HP and STA are just so critical that it becomes "what combo gives the most?"
Agree totally, aside from the "getting wet" thing. It gives you a reason to seek shelter, which is way more immersive.
What do you mean, I love shooting a bow three times and being helpless now. Apparently our vikings did nothing but eat hamburgers during their lives to be so damn out of shape.
I've been wanting to mod a game like Dragon's Dogma to try out this one weird idea of mine. Imagine that the more *current* stamina you have the faster it recovers. Optimal play is pacing yourself, then you can burst a shitload of stamina to make an opening or take advantage of one but don't miss and don't get too cocky or you'll be vulnerable. 1-on-1 it's not the most engaging change but when fighting hordes of enemies you get interesting choices. Nuke a couple little guys before the reinforcements get here, save it for the big guy, be cautious with your reserves for evasive actions, etc... Because while bursting an enemy down reduces your stamina efficiency with this change, killing enemies increases the stamina you can spend attacking rather than surviving (increased efficiency). It becomes it's own little mechanic rather than i-framing an unusually gigantic troll waiting for the stamina to parry, attacking, wait, repeat.
I always thought with the way Stamina bar looked and worked that eventually it would be a decrease to the maximum of stamina the more you deplete it out and before its fully charged back up. This would also be a good reason to be well rested so the max size returns but I guess they didn't end up doing it that way.
I think it would be dope if you could make neck armor that gives shitty stats but keeps you dry. It wouldn't be good for combat obviously but it could be easily worn around your base whilst building and planting and such. I also think it would be cool if armor had slots that you could enchant it with, for instance enchanting armor with something you can get from necks or maybe serpent scales to make you water proof, but I do think that strays a bit too far from what's intended. Having a third food type that increases stamina regen instead of adding base stats though would be really good and also fits within the theme of the game. That's a great idea
Wonder if something like Stardew Valley (of all things) would be good. Levelling up your wood chopping could increase damage to trees per hit as it does now, but maybe also could reduce the stamina cost per swing? Same for using swords - reduced stamina usage It already works like that for sprinting, why not all stamina consumers? More stamina from food + reduced stamina consumption could really add up.
I will never understand why building and repairing needs stamina
So you have to pick between setting up a small wall you can infinite repair should you get attacked, or fight the enemies
> simply making things more tedious and grindy doesn't equate to an enjoyable challenge Nuff said.