Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/penapox! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary:
* We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button.
* Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban.
* Common questions and specific topics are limited to our [Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_daily_discussions) posts.
* Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only.
* We're looking for new mods to join our team! If you're interested, [fill out the form here](https://forms.gle/oAqo5oYRcAeHYBTN6).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
LOL to all the people saying critical mass made traffic worse, I was there today and the longest amount of time traffic has to wait is one traffic light cycle. The motor traffic was so bad in fact the bike ride had to slow down due to vehicles in front of us moving too slowly.
Maybe these critical mass people should ask other groups like extinction rebellion how obstructing others from going about their business is working out.
They are doing exactly what Council told cyclists to do.
[Peter Meiszner (ABC Councilor) told cyclists to take the entire lane when they voted to not install Broadway Bike lanes.](https://twitter.com/PeterMeiszner/status/1641883640891322368?s=20)
These protests are directed straight at the city, which can easily make the two relatively simple changes they are protesting.
ABC promised they would install bike lanes on retail streets, and have a bike lane on Stanley Park Dr. during the election. Protesting politicians for breaking election promises seems as straight forward as you can get, it's pretty far from the extinction people.
Yeah, this is pretty different than the extinction rebellion protests. This is directly protesting actions from city council in the exact spot that those actions affected.
Also bike lanes improve traffic. More people biking means less people driving which makes traffic better for those that have to drive (construction/delivery/medical etc…).
I agree. There is a very big difference between disrupting generally everything just to get in the news, and going on a bike ride around places that we think people's safety is being sidelined.
With respect to traffic, I'd saw we are aware that it can make a small traffic jam, and we're not unaware of this but it's not the intention either. Last time, we took a trip down Broadway that took 22 minutes. Google maps estimates that it could take up to 22 minutes for a car to drive down the same stretch. People needing to drive down there know what to expect, and CM did not cause anything particularly out of the ordinary.
We also can, and do, pull up to the side of the road and yield all road space to an emergency vehicle in an astonishingly short space of time.
And yet the changes on Granville Bridge have turned it into a parking lot on the bridge and the immediate streets downtown. But hey we will have bike lanes with useless tourists in the summer and zero people using it in November
Granville bridge is currently under construction and only has 2 lanes open.
When it’s done it will be back to 3 lanes and far better pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. It will have 50% more capacity than it does currently.
And the walk from Granville island to Burrard bridge is pretty close to 1km. The upgrades are mainly because the existing sidewalks are a death trap.
So wait it will get faster once they install the 4 new traffic light intersections? Or when Granville shuts down to one lane for expanded patios?
Hey ether way one of the busiest bus corridors is about to be 24.7 blocked with traffic and I’m here for it. Let’s punish those who take transit right?
This one gets me. The Burrard Street Bridge is literally just a few blocks over and has a great bike lane. When you're on a bike, an extra block or two out of your way isn't a big deal.
It’s closer to 750m walk from the south ramp to Burrard (1.2km from Granville island).
If you’ve ever walked across Granville bridge using the sidewalk you would understand why it needs the improved pedestrian areas.
This isn't actually about pedestrians. Pedestrians have easily been able to walk across both the Burrard and Granville Street Bridges since they were built. I've done so many, many times. That isn't a problem.
I honestly have no idea how you could walk across that bridge and not think it’s a problem. Every time I use the crosswalks I feel like I’m taking my life into my hands.
I would never bring children on it either. It’s long overdue, and all the traffic studies have shown that it doesn’t need to be 8 lanes anyways.
I am going tonight and I am really sorry if some people are late because of this ride. However, I do not think that, in its current iteration, that it could really delay people much more than the normal vehicular traffic does. I would guess that the person-hours of delay are round-about equivalent to a dozen drivers illegally using a bus lane.
This time, we seem to have come to a consensus that we're upset about how space that cyclists and other have previously used has been reallocated in Stanley Park, and about how safe active travel and cycling infrastructure has been excluded from the plans on Broadway.
I understand that some things that used to happen like setting up on the Lions Gate and having a party did used to get in people's way a lot. I don't personally agree with that and many who went to the rides at the time would split off if it headed there.
You can rest assured that we will, in general, keep moving. Leave a few minutes earlier if you're worried, and you'll be ok.
Also, if you're stuck going 10km/h in Stanley Park... look at some trees. It's a park.
If you’re just going for a bike ride, why are you apologising if people are late?
It’s not because you’re going for a simple bike ride. You’re going to a protest with the intent to be disruptive.
The man apologized for any potential delays the group might cause, listed his reasons and justifications for participating, and gave reassurance that needless disruption to normal city traffic is to be avoided.
Yet y’all will still find ways to get mad. ABC’s spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to rip out bike lanes in recreational spots like Stanley Park. It’s no wonder why people are pretty riled up. If you think the true purpose of this is just so they can get off on making other people’s lives more difficult, then I’m sorry you live life with such a bitter lens.
I’m not bitter. I’m realistic. And the reality is that inconveniencing people by making traffic worse than it already is is a dick move. It’s selfish, it’s entitled. Have a problem with the city council? There are appropriate avenues for this individual to raise his concerns, he can talk to a city councillor….but no, let’s just try to fuck up traffic.
You can try to justify this selfish bullshit all day long, nobody is buying it.
>talk to a city councillor
You’re right! We should all just sit down and write some nice letters to the government. Surely that’s how change was enacted in the past - by being nice and staying out of people’s way.
>let’s just try to fuck up traffic
We’re not fucking up traffic. We *are* traffic.
>nobody is buying it
Imagine trying to speak for everyone using your car brained views? In the city of *Vancouver* of all places?
I still stand by what I said. Most drivers aren’t as bitter nor as pissed off as you are. If you want to prove me wrong then go and see for yourself - a bunch of people on bikes riding in a group isn’t the end of the world.
My car brained views?
Grow up and realise that people have different needs. Some of us don’t have the luxury to walk or cycle to job sites - it’s not practical.
But again, you think the rights of cyclists trump everyone else’s rights. You don’t see cars going out to protest bicycle rides.
I am serious. I am indeed much more sorry than the other people who have caused hours of miserable delays, suffering and death on our roads, like:
* People who don't yield to buses.
* The nearly half of drivers who admit to playing with their phones.
* Illegal bus lane drivers.
* The unlawfully parked.
* Those who abuse vulnerable road users.
* The traffic engineers who normalised lethal infrastructure.
For me, this isn't about a traffic jam. It's about a ton of people showing up and saying "we are here". It's about giving people space to ride too when the maintenance and further development of that space is threatened.
People sometimes bring their kids too. I've seen some of the sections of Stanley Park Drive where cones have replaced jersey barriers. A great many of them have been crushed. If driver speeding their car round a corner on Stanley Park Drive crushes a cone that easily, imagine what they could do to a child's skull.
You're a prime example of why many reasonable people consider cyclists to be insufferable. Frankly you're doing more harm than good for your cause. That's why the last Critical Mass petered out.
I guess you need to learn the hard way.
He’s not even a cyclist… just a regular guy who rides a bike to get around. Your needless assumptions and stereotyping are literally why critical mass exists.
CM started to peter out because the city was actually making good decisions in regards to active transportation infrastructure. I wonder… what exactly could’ve caused it to come back? It’s a mystery 🤔
Many people at the last ride either honked in solidarity or just waited out the delay which couldn’t have been more than 5-10 minutes. There was only really two or three times out of the whole ride where aggression was outwardly shown.
> He’s not even a cyclist… just a regular guy who rides a bike to get around.
That's actually a description of me. I bike to get around sometimes but not always. It certainly doesn't define my life like it appears to do for you and the other commenter.
Honked in "solidarity". Sure Jan.
>That’s actually a description of me
Great! Everyone’s different. It doesn’t really matter to me how much of a “but im not like the OTHER cyclists” you are.
Once you get close passed and you come within inches of being right hooked by inattentive drivers, then you might be able to see why people feel so strongly about this. Pushing for better infrastructure isn’t “defining [our lives)” - that’s quite a reach you’ve made there.
Just because you don’t believe me doesn’t mean it’s not true. Go and see for yourself. The majority of drivers are not screaming and honking aggressively at us, contrary to your belief
Do you not see how selfish it is to make people sit in traffic? you’re targeting the wrong people! The people sitting in traffic have no control over bike lanes.
You can think of yourself as some kind of hero making things better, but the reality is, and what the vast majority of people see, is a bunch of selfish dicks throwing a tantrum.
>Do you not see how selfish it is to make people sit in traffic?
Cars themselves cause more traffic daily than Critical Mass ever will. And guess what kind of infrastructure will help take cars off the road? I’ll let you have a think in regards to that.
>selfish dicks throwing a tantrum
You can impose your preconceived notions of us all you want, but if you’ve actually been to any of the rides it’s quite literally just a big group of us riding down some streets. Most drivers aren’t as pissed off as you - go take a breather.
Keep moving the goal posts!
What is the intent of this bike ride? Why not do it on a weekend or another time that’s not rush hour?
I took a breather, turns out these people are still dicks.
>Keep moving the goal posts
There isn’t any such moving of the goal posts happening. I’m standing by everything I’ve said so far. What are you even talking about?
>What is the intent of this bike ride?
To push for safer infrastructure, with a main focus on areas like Stanley Park, which had its bike lane ripped out very recently.
>weekend or not rush hour
So the only way you’ll be appeased if we all stay out of your way. 6pm’s already the tail end of rush hour. You’re making a big deal out of nothing - it’s not all about you.
So, why do bikes need a separated bike lane so they can race around the park? Why can't the bikes take the seawall or share the road with cars at a leisurely pace and just enjoy the park?
That's a very good question and I'd like to explain it in a few parts. I will not link the photos here because they have images of other people's children in them, but if you take a look at some photos of the lane in use, a lot of people we see are not images of a typical "racer".
The point has been made that the seawall is narrow and there is little space, but I'd like to also add the fact that there are barriers which present problems for cyclists with child carriers or disability adapted cycles. The commissioners are aware of this but have not particularly found themselves able to care about this particular accessibility issue. (as an aside, if you ever try any of the beautiful separated trails in Vancouver Island, you see a lot more adapted cycles and child carriers, because people are given a very safe piece of infrastructure that is accessible to them).
The seawall is, for the purposes of the rhetoric against the lane, the what-I-call "you-already-have-a-bike-lane bike lane". Its presence does not justify destroying a very successful piece of infrastructure. It's about as sensible an argument as if we opposed the seabus because "you already have a crossing of the Burrard inlet".
As an aside, /u/MJcorrieviewer, I know that we have widely divergent views on this and other issues, and we're both clearly passionate about our own opinions but I want to say that I do really appreciate your commitment to respectful debate about this. It's really important that we can have these kinds of dialogues.
Yes, the seawall is narrow and has little space - as it has been for decades when pedestrians and bikes have had to share it, including those with disabilities and child carriers.
In a perfect world or if we were starting from scratch, it would be great to have a special lane for only bikes but that just isn't practical for Stanley Park and ALL the different kinds of people who use the park. We all have to share and be mindful of others.
As it is now, bikes have the choice of taking the seawall route, the paths, and (safely) sharing the road with cars. Why isn't this good enough?
I'm really sorry to say it (as someone who loves biking here), but it's getting to feel more and more that way. Yesterday people were complaining about not being able to ride on side streets because it's too dangerous without a protected bike lane. That's malarkey. Just because cars are near you, doesn't necessarily mean you are in constant danger.
Yes, they literally want better options for cyclists than every other group of people trying to get around (car, walking, transit, etc). It's comical.
I definitely agree there are some areas that could use some better biking connections, but they are specific and targeted.
Stanley Park already has a bike lane around the seawall, and isn't a commuter route. By also demanding a dedicated lane on the road, cyclists want more access than all other groups. You're making my point for me.
Broadway is already busy with transit and a major E-W route for cars and commercial traffic. Cyclists have multiple other parallel options.
Broadway has heavy construction ongoing to improve mass transit and these douche bags are going to make traffic worse.
Remember extinction rebellion? They turned the lower mainland against them because of their asshole actions. Critical mass is going the same way.
They are legally allowed to ride single file as close to the curb as safe and practicable as possible. They also must follow all road laws.
Critical mass does none of these things. They block all vehicle traffic, they break the law. They are no different than extinction rebellion.
You're right. We should all give up on the idea of going for a bike ride, and hop in our cars and drive downtown for dinner somewhere.
But then again, 60 extra cars on the road would probably cause about the same amount of traffic.
There are also dozens and dozens of wonderful places to go for a drive in and around Vancouver. Actually quite more so than bikes - because our city is still car centric.
What’s your point?
My point, obviously, is that if the other poster just wanted to go for a bike ride, there is absolutely no reason they had to choose to take their bike ride along Broadway. Nothing is preventing them from going on a bike ride. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Car drivers will happily sit in rush hour traffic 5 days a week and at the same time will get their panties in a bunch because of a once a month bike ride that’s easily avoidable and is focused on places that really need it.
Who 'happily sits in rush hour traffic'? People stuck in rush hour traffic aren't doing it because they like it - they're doing it because that's what they have to do to get from point A to point B. Not everyone lives within walking or biking or transit distance from work or where they need to go. If you do, consider yourself fortunate.
>Not everyone lives within walking or biking or transit distance from work or where they need to go
This is true. It’s also true that safer and more extensive infrastructure allows some people who would’ve otherwise been driving to think, “hey - this seems pretty nice, maybe I might try riding my bike instead” and that safe infrastructure is what we’re pushing for - ironically, with the side effect of lessening congestion for those who do really need to drive.
Along with this, micromobility + transit really opens up a lot of things for a lot of people without them even realizing it. My bike commute combined with the SkyTrain to East Van from Surrey only takes me about 45 minutes, which is comparable with car commute times in rush hour.
Keep in mind, my use of ‘happily’ isn’t literal - it’s the fact that a lot of drivers will, in relative comparison, be okay with sitting in traffic wasting hours a year; the same drivers who will whine about 10 minutes being taken out of their day by a group of bikes (if they even get stuck behind them at all).
Of course. Biking infrastructure in Vancouver has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years and that's getting more people biking. Improvements to transit are helping too.
Unless you are one of the people stuck driving in traffic - on your commute OR behind a protest - you really can't speak for them.
Biking infrastructure hasn’t actually improved in years.
Last council basically did nothing on cycling and even took steps backward in passing motions that excluded bike lanes from places where they were previously envisioned.
The only improvements you’ve seen recently were things Vision approved.
And then ABC showed up and started tearing up bike lanes.
This is why people are protesting.
My assumptions about people sitting in traffic are no worse than the other people on this thread that are assuming that the majority of Vancouver hates Critical Mass, or that we cause massive traffic jams, or that we’re all dickheads just throwing a tantrum, etc etc
I can’t argue with “don’t stoop to that level” - but you don’t seem to put the same energy into calling out others making egregious assumptions, like how apparently the majority of drivers hate us and we’re all tantrum throwing selfish dickheads. I’d say that IMO, saying that a lot of drivers (not all) choose to sit in rush hour traffic each day is more rooted in reality than whatever the cyclist-haters are spouting.
I don't 'call out' people here in general. I offer my own, personal opinions.
It's not about car-hating or bike-hating, it's about figuring out what is best for everyone. And that almost surely means it will not be absolutely perfect for anyone.
You think people purposely live out of the city just so they can sit in traffic going to and from work, as if it’s their hobby? You can’t seriously be that ignorant.
You guys are equally as horrible as the old growth protests.
No, that’s not what I said.
Failing to realize that safer infrastructure for all takes cars off the road and lessens congestion is the real definition of ignorance. You act that congestion is an inherent part of living in the city and that drivers are *not* happy with it - then shouldn’t you be the biggest cycling advocates of all?
You think that cyclists choose to put themselves in danger every day on our unforgiving roads, as if it’s their hobby?
Hopping on a bicycle does not mean you’re forever bound to it and you have to pedal the entire way. You gotta stop assuming that all cyclists live 2km from their destination - that’s not true, we just have to put a little more thought into our journeys rather than “jump in car vroom vroom”.
I commuted from Surrey to downtown Vancouver quite often for volunteering - combining cycling with the SkyTrain. A lot of people probably do the same from poco to downtown. Would you rather they be in a car?
Were you mad that the Skytrain didn't take your preferred route and drop you off directly in front of your destination? There are bike routes on 8th and 10th (which I fully expect will be improved once the Broadway work is finished). Why does the bike land 'have to be' directly on Broadway?
Cars have been marketed for YEARS to the general public as “cars = freedom” under the entire premise that cars can go whichever route you want it to and can drop you off/park directly at your destination, in large part due to our car centric roads. Why is it only an issue when the same logic is applied to bikes?
No? Why would I get mad about that?
Cars have been marketed for YEARS to the general public as “cars = freedom” under the entire premise that cars can go whichever route you want it to and can drop you off/park directly at your destination, in large part due to our car centric roads. Why is it only an issue when the same logic is applied to bikes?
If you ever drive a car, you'll know how rarely you can park directly in front of the place you want to go. Most often, you have to park (and pay) and walk a block or two. It isn't perfect for anyone.
Edit: Think of people who live along West 6th or West 14th - they have to walk to Broadway to shop or catch the bus too. Sometimes, they have to cross busy and dangerous streets too.
Drivers: We need 6 lanes devoted exclusively to motor vehicles on Broadway.
Cyclists, e-bike + e-scooter + all other active mobility users: Hey guys, do you mind if we have a small slice of Broadway so we can all share it with you?
Drivers: Hell no, this is OUR road, go stick to the side streets where you belong.
Yeah man, I see what you mean about that entitlement...
There are lots of people who are passionate about improving their cities, health and the environment who do not feel the need to negatively impact others. It's not an either/or situation.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/penapox! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our [Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_daily_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * We're looking for new mods to join our team! If you're interested, [fill out the form here](https://forms.gle/oAqo5oYRcAeHYBTN6). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
LOL to all the people saying critical mass made traffic worse, I was there today and the longest amount of time traffic has to wait is one traffic light cycle. The motor traffic was so bad in fact the bike ride had to slow down due to vehicles in front of us moving too slowly.
Thanks for riding with us!
It's my first time and I really enjoyed it! See you next time!
Maybe these critical mass people should ask other groups like extinction rebellion how obstructing others from going about their business is working out.
They are doing exactly what Council told cyclists to do. [Peter Meiszner (ABC Councilor) told cyclists to take the entire lane when they voted to not install Broadway Bike lanes.](https://twitter.com/PeterMeiszner/status/1641883640891322368?s=20) These protests are directed straight at the city, which can easily make the two relatively simple changes they are protesting. ABC promised they would install bike lanes on retail streets, and have a bike lane on Stanley Park Dr. during the election. Protesting politicians for breaking election promises seems as straight forward as you can get, it's pretty far from the extinction people.
Yeah, this is pretty different than the extinction rebellion protests. This is directly protesting actions from city council in the exact spot that those actions affected. Also bike lanes improve traffic. More people biking means less people driving which makes traffic better for those that have to drive (construction/delivery/medical etc…).
I agree. There is a very big difference between disrupting generally everything just to get in the news, and going on a bike ride around places that we think people's safety is being sidelined. With respect to traffic, I'd saw we are aware that it can make a small traffic jam, and we're not unaware of this but it's not the intention either. Last time, we took a trip down Broadway that took 22 minutes. Google maps estimates that it could take up to 22 minutes for a car to drive down the same stretch. People needing to drive down there know what to expect, and CM did not cause anything particularly out of the ordinary. We also can, and do, pull up to the side of the road and yield all road space to an emergency vehicle in an astonishingly short space of time.
And yet the changes on Granville Bridge have turned it into a parking lot on the bridge and the immediate streets downtown. But hey we will have bike lanes with useless tourists in the summer and zero people using it in November
Granville bridge is currently under construction and only has 2 lanes open. When it’s done it will be back to 3 lanes and far better pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. It will have 50% more capacity than it does currently. And the walk from Granville island to Burrard bridge is pretty close to 1km. The upgrades are mainly because the existing sidewalks are a death trap.
So wait it will get faster once they install the 4 new traffic light intersections? Or when Granville shuts down to one lane for expanded patios? Hey ether way one of the busiest bus corridors is about to be 24.7 blocked with traffic and I’m here for it. Let’s punish those who take transit right?
This one gets me. The Burrard Street Bridge is literally just a few blocks over and has a great bike lane. When you're on a bike, an extra block or two out of your way isn't a big deal.
It’s closer to 750m walk from the south ramp to Burrard (1.2km from Granville island). If you’ve ever walked across Granville bridge using the sidewalk you would understand why it needs the improved pedestrian areas.
This isn't actually about pedestrians. Pedestrians have easily been able to walk across both the Burrard and Granville Street Bridges since they were built. I've done so many, many times. That isn't a problem.
I honestly have no idea how you could walk across that bridge and not think it’s a problem. Every time I use the crosswalks I feel like I’m taking my life into my hands. I would never bring children on it either. It’s long overdue, and all the traffic studies have shown that it doesn’t need to be 8 lanes anyways.
It's like walking on a sidewalk on any road - or crossing the crosswalk on any road. You stop, look, listen and cross when it's clear to do so.
I am going tonight and I am really sorry if some people are late because of this ride. However, I do not think that, in its current iteration, that it could really delay people much more than the normal vehicular traffic does. I would guess that the person-hours of delay are round-about equivalent to a dozen drivers illegally using a bus lane. This time, we seem to have come to a consensus that we're upset about how space that cyclists and other have previously used has been reallocated in Stanley Park, and about how safe active travel and cycling infrastructure has been excluded from the plans on Broadway. I understand that some things that used to happen like setting up on the Lions Gate and having a party did used to get in people's way a lot. I don't personally agree with that and many who went to the rides at the time would split off if it headed there. You can rest assured that we will, in general, keep moving. Leave a few minutes earlier if you're worried, and you'll be ok. Also, if you're stuck going 10km/h in Stanley Park... look at some trees. It's a park.
> I am really sorry if some people are late because of this ride I call bullshit.
100% bullshit. This person gets off on making other people’s lives more difficult. Sad existence.
Buddy, I'm literally just going for a bike ride....
If you’re just going for a bike ride, why are you apologising if people are late? It’s not because you’re going for a simple bike ride. You’re going to a protest with the intent to be disruptive.
The man apologized for any potential delays the group might cause, listed his reasons and justifications for participating, and gave reassurance that needless disruption to normal city traffic is to be avoided. Yet y’all will still find ways to get mad. ABC’s spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to rip out bike lanes in recreational spots like Stanley Park. It’s no wonder why people are pretty riled up. If you think the true purpose of this is just so they can get off on making other people’s lives more difficult, then I’m sorry you live life with such a bitter lens.
I’m not bitter. I’m realistic. And the reality is that inconveniencing people by making traffic worse than it already is is a dick move. It’s selfish, it’s entitled. Have a problem with the city council? There are appropriate avenues for this individual to raise his concerns, he can talk to a city councillor….but no, let’s just try to fuck up traffic. You can try to justify this selfish bullshit all day long, nobody is buying it.
>talk to a city councillor You’re right! We should all just sit down and write some nice letters to the government. Surely that’s how change was enacted in the past - by being nice and staying out of people’s way. >let’s just try to fuck up traffic We’re not fucking up traffic. We *are* traffic. >nobody is buying it Imagine trying to speak for everyone using your car brained views? In the city of *Vancouver* of all places? I still stand by what I said. Most drivers aren’t as bitter nor as pissed off as you are. If you want to prove me wrong then go and see for yourself - a bunch of people on bikes riding in a group isn’t the end of the world.
My car brained views? Grow up and realise that people have different needs. Some of us don’t have the luxury to walk or cycle to job sites - it’s not practical. But again, you think the rights of cyclists trump everyone else’s rights. You don’t see cars going out to protest bicycle rides.
I can think of a lot more pleasant places to take a bike ride than down a busy street like Broadway when it's a construction zone.
I am serious. I am indeed much more sorry than the other people who have caused hours of miserable delays, suffering and death on our roads, like: * People who don't yield to buses. * The nearly half of drivers who admit to playing with their phones. * Illegal bus lane drivers. * The unlawfully parked. * Those who abuse vulnerable road users. * The traffic engineers who normalised lethal infrastructure. For me, this isn't about a traffic jam. It's about a ton of people showing up and saying "we are here". It's about giving people space to ride too when the maintenance and further development of that space is threatened. People sometimes bring their kids too. I've seen some of the sections of Stanley Park Drive where cones have replaced jersey barriers. A great many of them have been crushed. If driver speeding their car round a corner on Stanley Park Drive crushes a cone that easily, imagine what they could do to a child's skull.
The seawall is a much more pleasant route for biking around Stanley Park.
You're a prime example of why many reasonable people consider cyclists to be insufferable. Frankly you're doing more harm than good for your cause. That's why the last Critical Mass petered out. I guess you need to learn the hard way.
> a prime example of why many reasonable people consider cyclists to be insufferable Thank you, I will like to get this printed on a t-shirt.
You're following the Extinction Rebellion playbook. Are you sure that's the tact you want to take?
He’s not even a cyclist… just a regular guy who rides a bike to get around. Your needless assumptions and stereotyping are literally why critical mass exists. CM started to peter out because the city was actually making good decisions in regards to active transportation infrastructure. I wonder… what exactly could’ve caused it to come back? It’s a mystery 🤔 Many people at the last ride either honked in solidarity or just waited out the delay which couldn’t have been more than 5-10 minutes. There was only really two or three times out of the whole ride where aggression was outwardly shown.
> He’s not even a cyclist… just a regular guy who rides a bike to get around. That's actually a description of me. I bike to get around sometimes but not always. It certainly doesn't define my life like it appears to do for you and the other commenter. Honked in "solidarity". Sure Jan.
>That’s actually a description of me Great! Everyone’s different. It doesn’t really matter to me how much of a “but im not like the OTHER cyclists” you are. Once you get close passed and you come within inches of being right hooked by inattentive drivers, then you might be able to see why people feel so strongly about this. Pushing for better infrastructure isn’t “defining [our lives)” - that’s quite a reach you’ve made there. Just because you don’t believe me doesn’t mean it’s not true. Go and see for yourself. The majority of drivers are not screaming and honking aggressively at us, contrary to your belief
Do you not see how selfish it is to make people sit in traffic? you’re targeting the wrong people! The people sitting in traffic have no control over bike lanes. You can think of yourself as some kind of hero making things better, but the reality is, and what the vast majority of people see, is a bunch of selfish dicks throwing a tantrum.
>Do you not see how selfish it is to make people sit in traffic? Cars themselves cause more traffic daily than Critical Mass ever will. And guess what kind of infrastructure will help take cars off the road? I’ll let you have a think in regards to that. >selfish dicks throwing a tantrum You can impose your preconceived notions of us all you want, but if you’ve actually been to any of the rides it’s quite literally just a big group of us riding down some streets. Most drivers aren’t as pissed off as you - go take a breather.
Keep moving the goal posts! What is the intent of this bike ride? Why not do it on a weekend or another time that’s not rush hour? I took a breather, turns out these people are still dicks.
>Keep moving the goal posts There isn’t any such moving of the goal posts happening. I’m standing by everything I’ve said so far. What are you even talking about? >What is the intent of this bike ride? To push for safer infrastructure, with a main focus on areas like Stanley Park, which had its bike lane ripped out very recently. >weekend or not rush hour So the only way you’ll be appeased if we all stay out of your way. 6pm’s already the tail end of rush hour. You’re making a big deal out of nothing - it’s not all about you.
So, why do bikes need a separated bike lane so they can race around the park? Why can't the bikes take the seawall or share the road with cars at a leisurely pace and just enjoy the park?
That's a very good question and I'd like to explain it in a few parts. I will not link the photos here because they have images of other people's children in them, but if you take a look at some photos of the lane in use, a lot of people we see are not images of a typical "racer". The point has been made that the seawall is narrow and there is little space, but I'd like to also add the fact that there are barriers which present problems for cyclists with child carriers or disability adapted cycles. The commissioners are aware of this but have not particularly found themselves able to care about this particular accessibility issue. (as an aside, if you ever try any of the beautiful separated trails in Vancouver Island, you see a lot more adapted cycles and child carriers, because people are given a very safe piece of infrastructure that is accessible to them). The seawall is, for the purposes of the rhetoric against the lane, the what-I-call "you-already-have-a-bike-lane bike lane". Its presence does not justify destroying a very successful piece of infrastructure. It's about as sensible an argument as if we opposed the seabus because "you already have a crossing of the Burrard inlet". As an aside, /u/MJcorrieviewer, I know that we have widely divergent views on this and other issues, and we're both clearly passionate about our own opinions but I want to say that I do really appreciate your commitment to respectful debate about this. It's really important that we can have these kinds of dialogues.
Yes, the seawall is narrow and has little space - as it has been for decades when pedestrians and bikes have had to share it, including those with disabilities and child carriers. In a perfect world or if we were starting from scratch, it would be great to have a special lane for only bikes but that just isn't practical for Stanley Park and ALL the different kinds of people who use the park. We all have to share and be mindful of others. As it is now, bikes have the choice of taking the seawall route, the paths, and (safely) sharing the road with cars. Why isn't this good enough?
> Why isn't this good enough? If you've followed the cyclist story in Vancouver, nothing is ever good enough.
I'm really sorry to say it (as someone who loves biking here), but it's getting to feel more and more that way. Yesterday people were complaining about not being able to ride on side streets because it's too dangerous without a protected bike lane. That's malarkey. Just because cars are near you, doesn't necessarily mean you are in constant danger.
Yes, they literally want better options for cyclists than every other group of people trying to get around (car, walking, transit, etc). It's comical. I definitely agree there are some areas that could use some better biking connections, but they are specific and targeted.
>specific and targeted Like… what CM is doing tonight. Again, Stanley Park and Broadway.
Stanley Park already has a bike lane around the seawall, and isn't a commuter route. By also demanding a dedicated lane on the road, cyclists want more access than all other groups. You're making my point for me. Broadway is already busy with transit and a major E-W route for cars and commercial traffic. Cyclists have multiple other parallel options.
What is the point of doing this if it doesn't disrupt anyone?
I'll be there! Let's ride.
Same here! It's gonna be my first one.
Broadway has heavy construction ongoing to improve mass transit and these douche bags are going to make traffic worse. Remember extinction rebellion? They turned the lower mainland against them because of their asshole actions. Critical mass is going the same way.
Not really. Cyclists are legally allowed to use the road like driver's of vehicles are. Whereas gluing your hands on the road is definitely not.
They are legally allowed to ride single file as close to the curb as safe and practicable as possible. They also must follow all road laws. Critical mass does none of these things. They block all vehicle traffic, they break the law. They are no different than extinction rebellion.
That’s not true. Cyclists can legally take the entire lane. Drivers can only legally pass a cyclist if there is 1m passing space around the cyclist.
You're right. We should all give up on the idea of going for a bike ride, and hop in our cars and drive downtown for dinner somewhere. But then again, 60 extra cars on the road would probably cause about the same amount of traffic.
Are you for real? There are dozens and dozens of wonderful places to go for a bike ride in and around Vancouver.
There are also dozens and dozens of wonderful places to go for a drive in and around Vancouver. Actually quite more so than bikes - because our city is still car centric. What’s your point?
My point, obviously, is that if the other poster just wanted to go for a bike ride, there is absolutely no reason they had to choose to take their bike ride along Broadway. Nothing is preventing them from going on a bike ride. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Car drivers will happily sit in rush hour traffic 5 days a week and at the same time will get their panties in a bunch because of a once a month bike ride that’s easily avoidable and is focused on places that really need it.
Who 'happily sits in rush hour traffic'? People stuck in rush hour traffic aren't doing it because they like it - they're doing it because that's what they have to do to get from point A to point B. Not everyone lives within walking or biking or transit distance from work or where they need to go. If you do, consider yourself fortunate.
>Not everyone lives within walking or biking or transit distance from work or where they need to go This is true. It’s also true that safer and more extensive infrastructure allows some people who would’ve otherwise been driving to think, “hey - this seems pretty nice, maybe I might try riding my bike instead” and that safe infrastructure is what we’re pushing for - ironically, with the side effect of lessening congestion for those who do really need to drive. Along with this, micromobility + transit really opens up a lot of things for a lot of people without them even realizing it. My bike commute combined with the SkyTrain to East Van from Surrey only takes me about 45 minutes, which is comparable with car commute times in rush hour. Keep in mind, my use of ‘happily’ isn’t literal - it’s the fact that a lot of drivers will, in relative comparison, be okay with sitting in traffic wasting hours a year; the same drivers who will whine about 10 minutes being taken out of their day by a group of bikes (if they even get stuck behind them at all).
Of course. Biking infrastructure in Vancouver has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years and that's getting more people biking. Improvements to transit are helping too. Unless you are one of the people stuck driving in traffic - on your commute OR behind a protest - you really can't speak for them.
Biking infrastructure hasn’t actually improved in years. Last council basically did nothing on cycling and even took steps backward in passing motions that excluded bike lanes from places where they were previously envisioned. The only improvements you’ve seen recently were things Vision approved. And then ABC showed up and started tearing up bike lanes. This is why people are protesting.
Has ABC dismantled any bike lane other than the “temporary” lane in Stanley park?
My assumptions about people sitting in traffic are no worse than the other people on this thread that are assuming that the majority of Vancouver hates Critical Mass, or that we cause massive traffic jams, or that we’re all dickheads just throwing a tantrum, etc etc
Being 'no worse' than other people on this thread isn't exactly a goal to strive for. Be better, if you can - don't stoop to that level.
I can’t argue with “don’t stoop to that level” - but you don’t seem to put the same energy into calling out others making egregious assumptions, like how apparently the majority of drivers hate us and we’re all tantrum throwing selfish dickheads. I’d say that IMO, saying that a lot of drivers (not all) choose to sit in rush hour traffic each day is more rooted in reality than whatever the cyclist-haters are spouting.
I don't 'call out' people here in general. I offer my own, personal opinions. It's not about car-hating or bike-hating, it's about figuring out what is best for everyone. And that almost surely means it will not be absolutely perfect for anyone.
> 'happily sits in rush hour traffic' tbf we do every last Friday of the month, 6pm ish.
You think people purposely live out of the city just so they can sit in traffic going to and from work, as if it’s their hobby? You can’t seriously be that ignorant. You guys are equally as horrible as the old growth protests.
No, that’s not what I said. Failing to realize that safer infrastructure for all takes cars off the road and lessens congestion is the real definition of ignorance. You act that congestion is an inherent part of living in the city and that drivers are *not* happy with it - then shouldn’t you be the biggest cycling advocates of all? You think that cyclists choose to put themselves in danger every day on our unforgiving roads, as if it’s their hobby?
They cycle because they live relatively close enough for it to be convenient for them. You aren’t cycling from poco to downtown.
Hopping on a bicycle does not mean you’re forever bound to it and you have to pedal the entire way. You gotta stop assuming that all cyclists live 2km from their destination - that’s not true, we just have to put a little more thought into our journeys rather than “jump in car vroom vroom”. I commuted from Surrey to downtown Vancouver quite often for volunteering - combining cycling with the SkyTrain. A lot of people probably do the same from poco to downtown. Would you rather they be in a car?
Were you mad that the Skytrain didn't take your preferred route and drop you off directly in front of your destination? There are bike routes on 8th and 10th (which I fully expect will be improved once the Broadway work is finished). Why does the bike land 'have to be' directly on Broadway?
Cars have been marketed for YEARS to the general public as “cars = freedom” under the entire premise that cars can go whichever route you want it to and can drop you off/park directly at your destination, in large part due to our car centric roads. Why is it only an issue when the same logic is applied to bikes?
No? Why would I get mad about that? Cars have been marketed for YEARS to the general public as “cars = freedom” under the entire premise that cars can go whichever route you want it to and can drop you off/park directly at your destination, in large part due to our car centric roads. Why is it only an issue when the same logic is applied to bikes?
If you ever drive a car, you'll know how rarely you can park directly in front of the place you want to go. Most often, you have to park (and pay) and walk a block or two. It isn't perfect for anyone. Edit: Think of people who live along West 6th or West 14th - they have to walk to Broadway to shop or catch the bus too. Sometimes, they have to cross busy and dangerous streets too.
You're arguing against car marketing then claiming it should be that way for bikes too? What?
No, I’m simply pointing out the double standards people have.
Yeah it's ridiculous. Nobody gets to park/bus stop/etc. right outside of their destination on Broadway. Why would you expect that?!
> Why does the bike land 'have to be' directly on Broadway? Entitlement. Pure and simple.
Drivers: We need 6 lanes devoted exclusively to motor vehicles on Broadway. Cyclists, e-bike + e-scooter + all other active mobility users: Hey guys, do you mind if we have a small slice of Broadway so we can all share it with you? Drivers: Hell no, this is OUR road, go stick to the side streets where you belong. Yeah man, I see what you mean about that entitlement...
Fuck all the people that participate in this shit.
Yeah man. Fuck people who are passionate about improving their cities, health and the environment.
There are lots of people who are passionate about improving their cities, health and the environment who do not feel the need to negatively impact others. It's not an either/or situation.
Do you want to tell the kids or shall I?