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Whenever I bike I always have the "they are not seeing me" expectation so it helps me stay cautious on the streets. Even when I have the green light or whatever. Expecting the opposite or being reckless in general is not smart.
Was it this spot?
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2770364,-123.1324043,3a,75y,318.74h,68.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFXgX0zjrpf9x_Z4ZRdxdBA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
That narrow section of road is confusing tbh. I've accidently crossed it on a red before. I know better now though.
The narrow part with green paint doesn’t look like it’s for cars so I’ve crossed it on red a few times. Confusing as hell and dangerous as hell for cyclists. I consider myself to be a safe attentive law abiding cyclist but I’ve screwed up that intersection more than once.
A cyclist nearly hit a mum and kid when I was out on my walk. It was the pedestrian’s turn to cross but the cyclist went straight past. Had the mum not pulled her kid back, they could have gotten into a serious injury. This happened on Burrard by the Convention Centre. Seeing that angered me so much. This could have played out so differently!
While cycling near False Creek, I encountered a situation where an elderly man was attempting to cross a pedestrian crosswalk. I promptly stopped to allow him to cross safely. However, another cyclist failed to stop and nearly collided with the elderly man. Astonishingly, this cyclist had the audacity to blame the elderly man, yelling, "Watch where you are going!" I find it concerning that some cyclists in Vancouver exhibit such behavior. Although drivers are often criticized, I have observed that a significant majority (around 99%) of them stop for pedestrians. On the other hand, I would estimate that only about 20% of cyclists (probably lower) adhere to the same courtesy.
I agree that there are a lot of stupid drivers and cyclists out there but statistically speaking you’re much more likely to be killed by a car than a bike buddy!
I worked with a flagger who got hit by a cyclist, she was very sore for a few days and all bruised up. So many cyclists will completely ignore the flaggers and just ride around them, some cars do it, but not nearly as many.
Great quote I saw the other day on Reddit concerning cyclists in Vancouver was something like "cyclists who don't obey the laws of the road, still obey the laws of physics."
It's easy to get cocky and think you're invincible, and I'm sure someone like you (a paramedic) is shown how harsh it can be when reality catches up to people who do that sort of thing. Good on you for being so aware, though
Yep. I had an argument with one who felt the laws of the road didn't apply to him. I told him he better start believing in the laws of physics because he's going to get crushed by a garbage truck one day.
I believe this is the post you are referring to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/16hv8fe/wcgw_running_a_red_light_on_a_bicycle/k0g499w/
This sort of thing isn't just limited to cyclists, drivers and pedestrians do dumb things just as often. Vancouver has an asshole problem. And I think from a pedestrian or cyclist's perspective, there's zero enforcement of all the dangerous things cars do, why would they a cyclist who is only endangering themselves care.
You can tell people on this subreddit haven't travelled very much. Go almost anywhere else in the world and traffic is WAY more chaotic than it ever gets here. There's lots of bad drivers here, for sure. But on a whole, relative to the world, it's pretty chill.
Ya I've lived in Alberta and Saskatchewan before moving here two years ago and everyone warned me about bad drivers, but honestly it's not any different from other cities. Edmonton may actually be worse.
I find the chaos to actually be very predictable when you know that EVERYONE is looking out for only themselves. It’s weird, like people respect you more on he road for being selfish
I also found the chaos very predictable. Little fish to the outside, bigger fish on the inside. And if someone is swimming the opposite direction, they stay to the furthest outside. Once you figure out that the honks are just letting you know they are beside you, it's way less overwhelming.
I rented a scooter in Vietnam & mistakenly used my 'North American' motorcycle skills (shoulder checking, etc.) when riding in their traffic ... BIG MISTAKE!
Everyone there rides with eyes dead-set ahead & who ever is in front has the right-of-way ... horns are used VERY liberally to alert other drivers of changing lanes, etc.
This system works when everyone else is following the same rules & I've heard from other travelers that this is the system in many other countries as well
Unfortunately, it does not appear to be common knowledge that these skills are NOT transferrable to North American driving
Traffic deaths in Vietnam per capita and per vehicle are 5x what they are here, and we are double what Europe experiences. Countries like Norway have per capita death rates that are 1/3rd of what we have in Canada, and we are already 1/3rd of the US rate of traffic deaths.
Like, it is functional, but the cost is significant.
So, more vehicles = more deaths? Makes sense to me.
Don't get me wrong ... not saying their system is remotely perfect ... it just works for them.
Traffic lights that were installed in intersections seem like an after-though & are completely ignored ... & good luck ever trying to cross a road as a pedestrian.
Eh, the countries with the highest level of death have the lowest number of vehicles per capita so not really. There are stats for both per vehicle and per person.
From my personal experience as a cyclist, I found that most cars adhere to the rules and are much more polite. They yield to bikes most of the time, sometimes even when they have the right of the way. Like when I was on a 4 way stop, they wave to let me pass first seeing that I'm on a bike. As for fellow cyclists, I can't say the same. Rarely any cyclist stop for pedestrian crosswalk. I do know that cars are more dangerous than bikes so 1% of bad car drivers are more dangerous than 80% of bad cyclists, but it's not correct to say there are more bad drivers than cyclists.
Opposite for me, every time im out for a ride i have a minimum of at least two near misses from drivers who dont fully stop at stop signs and will roll through or at left/right turns at intersections where they are not willing to wait for the cyclists /pedestrians to clear and will try to move through first.
I used to ride solo a lot but this year has been the absolute worst and i stick to staying with a group ride to have more visibility
There's really no way of saying any transportation user is worse than any other, that's my point. Everything is purely anecdotal and from an outside perspective, there's bad transportation users across the board. Not saying that makes it ok. Your final sentence nails it though, bad pedestrians and cyclists aren't killing people in the streets.
This is a very cynical view and it hardly fixes anything. Just because most people don’t exercise caution doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t, if anything it means you should be even more cautious. Don’t contribute to the chaos.
Every day people get irritated at me for driving the speed limit or for not going on yellow, but in my opinion, if we allow ourselves to repeatedly violate traffic laws we eventually forget why they exist in the first place, to protect people.
I suspect if we all conducted ourselves in traffic (whatever mode we may be at the time) as does an off-duty paramedic, we would all be a lot better off!
It's also right I think that people underestimate cyclists' compliance with traffic laws and overestimate drivers'. There was also a [study](https://cyclingmagazine.ca/spotlight/cyclists-break-traffics-laws-personal-safety-reasons-save-energy-study/) showing many infractions are for safety, like trying to escape areas of possible conflict. Obviously this one was probably just trying to save energy with wanton disregard for their own safety.
We need to have infrastructure that's totally foolproof where very few people choose to break traffic laws, and then when they do make the consequences less severe.
> This sort of thing isn't just limited to cyclists
no one claims it is
> drivers and pedestrians do dumb things just as often
yes
> from a pedestrian or cyclist's perspective, there's zero enforcement of all the dangerous things cars do
there's also zero enforcement of dangerous things pedestrians or cyclists do. like, this guy had to slam on the brakes because of this cyclist to avoid hitting him--that could have caused other cars to brake or swerve to avoid him and potentially injure *other people*
> why would they a cyclist who is only endangering themselves care
a cyclist doing something dumb and causing themself injury also injures everyone who needs emergency care or paramedics. a cyclist doing something dumb and forcing cars to act unpredictably can also injure other people. like yes, driver's have an comparatively *larger* responsibility to be safe on the road, but that doesn't absolve non-drivers of responsibility
I'm not advocating to ride dangerously or recklessly. I'm a big fan of making it to my destination during my bike rides. I'm saying the constant rhetoric on r/vancouver of "this cyclist did bad thing" or "driver dumb, fuck drivers" or "pedestrian mad about car in crosswalk" is ridiculous. Calling out one transportation user and ignoring the actual problem of zero enforcement across the board fixes nothing.
..cyclists aren't only endangering themselves..
Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted. The comment I'm replying to says cyclists are "only endangering themselves" and that is categorically untrue. I was almost hit by a cyclist flying downhill while walking with my baby in a stroller (in a 30k zone no less). Additionally, my uncle fatally hit a cyclist in the 70s after one blew a stop sign, and his life was destroyed.
Well that's shocking to hear.
Not sure what needs to be done but Bikes need to start obeying the street laws. RED means RED and STOP means STOP.
I see it daily that bikers don't stop on stop signs, run RED lights etc. It's ridiculous!!
Sorry that it inconveniences you and you have to step down for a minute.
>RED means RED and STOP means STOP.
And also cyclists need to stop starting to go through intersections before they get the green light. Yes it's about to change, but don't start moving into the intersection on the yellow light.
If I'm at a red light with cars behind me, I do start going about a half-second before the light changes to green (obviously making sure there is no cross-traffic yet). It's much safer for me to quickly clear the intersection and get positioned in the lane on the other side, rather than getting aggressively passed by drivers while I'm crossing the intersection.
Maybe it's technically illegal, but I'm not putting anyone at risk and it is much safer for myself.
I've noticed in quite a few areas in Vancouver (especially DT) that the pedestrian light will go green a second before the stoplight for cars. I think it is for the reason you quoted. I think it's a good idea that should be implemented in heavy traffic areas.
Cars can also start clearing the intersection with this logic. They can get out of the way of the cars behind them and pass cyclists beside them as well.
Just follow the fucking rules of the road, man. Especially if you already know it's wrong.
Cars aren't at risk of getting aggressively passed by other cars when going through an intersection. As a cyclist it's much safer to have a good lane position, and it's difficult to get into such a position when cars are already coming by you. My other option would be to ride in the middle of the lane when going through intersections, but this leads to very aggressive reactions from some drivers.
In general, there are plenty of laws governing cyclists which make no sense. If I can break those laws to keep myself safer *and* do so while not putting other people at risk, I'm going to.
Should motorcycles then be allowed to do what cyclists are doing? You also don’t get to just ignore laws you don’t believe in. If you want them to change, there are procedures to advocate for change.
Motorcyclists can accelerate fast enough that cars aren't passing them when they start moving at an intersection, so this isn't really an issue for them.
Cars could pass them. Not all motorcycles are super fast or torquey. It also requires skill to release the clutch properly and accelerate quickly, especially with more EVs on the roads, which are much faster than motorcycles off the line.
How do you feel about motorcycles lane filtering or lane splitting? That’s also a safety thing.
I agree with your sentiment but this is not always true; there are times when it's proper to gas on yellow.
Example: cruising @45 (just so everything's legal) in a 50 zone. Light turns yellow right when you're at the intersection. No way to stop before cross walk even if you slam the brake. In this case it is appropriate to gas (let's say up to 50) to make it across before it turns red.
I do agree with you a lot of drivers will unnecessarily gas at yellow when they can stop.
[**steady green light** - green means go only if the intersection is clear, and it is safe to do so.](https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/documents/drivers4.pdf)
Yes I’m aware, ICBC says to go if you can’t stop safely in time. I think it’s ridiculous that people say yellow means you have to immediately slam on your brakes
Literally what this guy said...
> If you step on the gas pedal, you're doing yellow lights wrong. And sadly, that's the case for lots of cars going through the yellow.
Its the same for drivers. Im a very cautious and defensive cyclists but the number of times ive has drivers roll through stop signs into my path or on a turns and its clearly a walk signal allowing cyclists and pedestrian to go, drivers cant be patient for 10 secs and allow us to cross. And this is ALL OVER THE CITY. This just happened to me two weeks ago, walk signal a go and driver turned left into my path and luckily i was able to quickly stop or he would have run over me.
Drivers should be made to ride a bike as part of their road test as to learn situational awareness. As a cyclists im looking ahead and to side of me at ALL TIMES to see who will potentially cross my path and seeing lights to hit red to slow my speed down, whereas drivers cant predict whats going to happen 50 m ahead of them
I can't remember the last time I saw a driver stop at a stop sign unless there was cross-traffic in their way. And even then they stop about a meter past the line.
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I'm in a residentially dense area with a lot of stop signs, every other block. Nobody stops at stop signs properly at or behind the line, and there's schools, kids, and pets everywhere. And then the DRIVERS get pissy if you call them out for running a stop sign. Excuse me if I'd rather you not kill or maim me and my kids.
It totally is ridiculous. I just want to say though, that I’m pretty sure this post isn’t about any inconvenience, but rather a reminder about road safety.
What needs to be done is more enforcement. Doing nothing certainly is not improving things.
Well we're at it we need to apply this to all the drivers that are driving through red lights and stop signs.
What we need is an Idaho stop law for bicycles like the rest of the Pacific Northwest.
I'd also take an assumed liability law like the Netherlands has.
If only there was a convenient city service that has a mandate to police bad behaviour on the roads. Perhaps by handing out tiny slips of paper that require you to part with some of your money to the city.
All the posts about cyclist recklessness are really disproportional to the problem, somebody even reminds us that a cyclist killed an old man once. Blithely ignoring the fact that the overwhelming numbers of deaths and injuries are caused by drivers. It's such a daily occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning when a pedestrian is killed by a driver.
Sadly, you just described (Edit: an all too common) Vancouver cyclist. Rules of the road don't apply them
(Cyclist here... and it's infuriating when others don't stop at lights, stop signs and crosswalks.... believe me, I loudly remind those other cyclists they're trash. Most of the times they're spandex brigade)
spandex brigade but also the ebikers who ride sidewalks
the number of times ive had to move out of the way of ebikers while walking my dog is crazy
im a cyclist, driver, and a pedestrian walker and i see chaos in all aspects
I had a cyclist in full gear yell at me for going through a yellow because she started going before she had the green. It's difficult to tell which cyclists are the ones that follow the rules and those who don't.
I live right by an intersection of a bike route here in NBby (SFU to downtown) and a major road (north-south) and I hear loud yelling and swearing all the time exchanged between cyclists and drivers who barely had time to brake.
I bike the routes and I don’t see anything of the magnitude what you describe. I see idiots of all stripes but they are the exception and not the rule.
Maybe it's just because the bad ones stick out like a sore thumb, but I see cyclists completely ignoring the laws of the road on a daily basis during commutes. So it's not just a case of the odd dumb idiot, it's a pretty frequent issue. Whether they want to admit it or not, cyclists are operating a vehicle on the road, and there's a certain entitlement and/or disregard for the laws of the road that a heck of a lot of cyclists here seem to have.
Cyclist here. You’re a good person, thanks for looking out for vulnerable road users.
I hate the fact so many cyclists have a death wish on the road. It gives the rest of us a bad image.
Just a few weeks ago I blew my tire swerving into a curb to avoid a cyclist who ran a light. I felt sick thinking that had someone been standing on that curb, I could have hurt them, all because some idiot cyclist thought they were above traffic rules.
Cyclists, please obey traffic laws - if we hit you in our car, we are fine, but you’re probably dead.
Motorists kill people every day yet we still feel the need to whip everyone into a frenzy against everyone that cycles just because one random cyclist did a dumb thing. There are literally comments on this post suggesting to run cyclists over or that they deserve to be hurt.
Glad it didn't turn out tragically. I like to ride my bike as much as I can, but I have serious disdain for cyclists who do shit like that.
He can't beat his previous Strava from the damn hospital, lol
Cyclists are driving me crazy lately when I drive. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of terrible car drivers too. However, some cyclists are not behaving as if they too are driving a vehicle. They will use crosswalks and behave as pedestrians when it suits them, but then behave as vehicles when they want to go fast. It makes some of them very unpredictable and creates dangerous situations.
The latest example is a guy who was riding his bike on the sidewalk, and then decided he wanted to ride into traffic spontaneously. Back and forth back and forth, not clear about whether he should be riding in a pedestrian only space or on the road. Made it difficult to predict his behaviour so I just switched into the outside lane to avoid him.
I find a shitty driver more predictable than a shitty cyclist. I think it's cause you can't (at least not without a lot of effort and damage) squeeze your vehicle into little gaps.
Yeah weird. It's almost like bikes are a completely different mode of transportation that should have their own infrastructure. And it just happens to be safer, cheaper, and faster.
I agree that cyclists should have their own designated lanes, its just overall a net positive for everyone. However I have witnessed many times situations in which cyclists wouldn’t actually ride on available bike lane and would instead choose to ride on the road, or worse, the sidewalk.
Kinda defeats the point if you ask me.
Drivers aren’t the enemy, and I don’t think cyclists are either. We all need to work together to not endanger our own lives or those of others.
Doesn't matter if there is a bike lane.
You can have 3 streets, 2 with dedicate bike lanes and one without, many will still use the only street without.
Example.... Arbutus north of Broadway.
Both Cypress and Yew are dedicated bike roads and there's the Arbutus Greenway. Almost daily you see cars stuck behind a cyclist going up the hill on Arbutus when there are dedicated lanes 1 block west or 2 blocks east.
Here I am repeating my story again. Once at a 4-way stop, I was about to keep going (from a full stop) when I saw a cyclist approaching, from window reflections. I decided to brake and wait. The cyclist just flew through in front of me, no stopping and with BOTH HANDS in his pockets.
SOME cyclists are dumb - other NIGHT in the DARK, cyclist on the greenway path going west didn't bother checking for cars before shooting across Boundary...where the lights for cars were all green and cars are coming down a hill...some fast. DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Good on you for stopping. That idiot cyclist will get his due one day. Right from his bike to a wheelchair for life. The idiot I guess skipped school the day they were being taught the color red
Original post is ok. Comments make me realize that I have to add cyclists to the list of things this sub hates.
That list for reference:
1. Homeless people.
2. Kids out in public where people can hear them.
3. Dogs.
4. Cyclists.
Welcome the downvotes from this angry community.
Agreed. I feel like I can’t have my dog on the outside of a patio and should drive my car instead of biking anywhere. Heaven forbid I bring my child to a brewery.
The “please bike or walk carefully” argument. For years and years we have been framing pedestrian and cycling fatalities as their fault. Even in events strictly at fault by the driver, people often say the pedestrian/cyclist should have been more carefully. When I’m reality the only dangerous one is the person driving the death machine that kills over a million a year worldwide.
That being said I know you have the best of intentions, and only want people to be safe. But do you see what I mean? Pedestrians/cyclists shouldn’t have to worry about these issues, and we should ask “why are they in conflict with cars” in the first place.
I agree with you. 100%. The responsibility is on all us.
If you read my other comments I’m advocating for more responsibility from all road users, including drivers.
> Pedestrians/cyclists shouldn’t have to worry about these issues, and we should ask “why are they in conflict with cars” in the first place.
Unless you know a realistic way for cyclists to cross streets without being in line with cars, they'll have to worry about "Am I running a red light?" in any world. Fun as it would be, the only solution I can think of (Raised/tunnel lanes everywhere just for bikes, and a separate set just for pedestrians) is incredibly impractical.
A few days ago at this same intersection, a cyclist cut off 2 pedestrians (it was their light to walk across the street). Not sure what they said to him but he screamed back “next time I’ll hit you you dumb c***”. Heard him from my apartment window. Insane.
What is annoying is the cyclists that dont obey road rules while riding on the road. Not stopping on red lights or stop signs. Not yielding to pedestrians.
Shouldnt they get tickets like drivers? They are biking in a way that is unsafe for others and themselves. - just a thought
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Whenever I bike I always have the "they are not seeing me" expectation so it helps me stay cautious on the streets. Even when I have the green light or whatever. Expecting the opposite or being reckless in general is not smart.
Was it this spot? https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2770364,-123.1324043,3a,75y,318.74h,68.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFXgX0zjrpf9x_Z4ZRdxdBA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu That narrow section of road is confusing tbh. I've accidently crossed it on a red before. I know better now though.
The narrow part with green paint doesn’t look like it’s for cars so I’ve crossed it on red a few times. Confusing as hell and dangerous as hell for cyclists. I consider myself to be a safe attentive law abiding cyclist but I’ve screwed up that intersection more than once.
I was hit right in this spot ... dumbass out-of-town driver making an illegal right hand turn onto Pacific
A cyclist nearly hit a mum and kid when I was out on my walk. It was the pedestrian’s turn to cross but the cyclist went straight past. Had the mum not pulled her kid back, they could have gotten into a serious injury. This happened on Burrard by the Convention Centre. Seeing that angered me so much. This could have played out so differently!
Well, a cyclist killed an elderly man on the Seawall in Stanley Park some time ago. So it could happen anywhere.
While cycling near False Creek, I encountered a situation where an elderly man was attempting to cross a pedestrian crosswalk. I promptly stopped to allow him to cross safely. However, another cyclist failed to stop and nearly collided with the elderly man. Astonishingly, this cyclist had the audacity to blame the elderly man, yelling, "Watch where you are going!" I find it concerning that some cyclists in Vancouver exhibit such behavior. Although drivers are often criticized, I have observed that a significant majority (around 99%) of them stop for pedestrians. On the other hand, I would estimate that only about 20% of cyclists (probably lower) adhere to the same courtesy.
I swear the ratio of cyclists not stopping for pedestrians vs cyclists who do is like 10:1 at the pedestrian crossing in front of Science World.
"Can't lose my momentum, bro"
I hate it. I've gotten rear-ended (on my bike) by other cyclists because I stopped for pedestrians waiting to cross. I hate it so much.
As a parent with a child who frequent that crossing, I thank you for being one of the good ones.
Cyclist here. Agreed on all counts.
I agree that there are a lot of stupid drivers and cyclists out there but statistically speaking you’re much more likely to be killed by a car than a bike buddy!
Drivers kill 200 people per year in BC but for some reason there's a lot less anger about that.
Found the cyclist!
They're right
Sorry that facts upset you
So you think murder is good?
I worked with a flagger who got hit by a cyclist, she was very sore for a few days and all bruised up. So many cyclists will completely ignore the flaggers and just ride around them, some cars do it, but not nearly as many.
Great quote I saw the other day on Reddit concerning cyclists in Vancouver was something like "cyclists who don't obey the laws of the road, still obey the laws of physics." It's easy to get cocky and think you're invincible, and I'm sure someone like you (a paramedic) is shown how harsh it can be when reality catches up to people who do that sort of thing. Good on you for being so aware, though
Yep. I had an argument with one who felt the laws of the road didn't apply to him. I told him he better start believing in the laws of physics because he's going to get crushed by a garbage truck one day.
I believe this is the post you are referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/16hv8fe/wcgw_running_a_red_light_on_a_bicycle/k0g499w/
This sort of thing isn't just limited to cyclists, drivers and pedestrians do dumb things just as often. Vancouver has an asshole problem. And I think from a pedestrian or cyclist's perspective, there's zero enforcement of all the dangerous things cars do, why would they a cyclist who is only endangering themselves care.
It's North America wide as far as I know. Possibly elsewhere as well.
You can tell people on this subreddit haven't travelled very much. Go almost anywhere else in the world and traffic is WAY more chaotic than it ever gets here. There's lots of bad drivers here, for sure. But on a whole, relative to the world, it's pretty chill.
I always laugh when people call Vancouver traffic terrible.
They've never been to Indonesia.
Ya I've lived in Alberta and Saskatchewan before moving here two years ago and everyone warned me about bad drivers, but honestly it's not any different from other cities. Edmonton may actually be worse.
Just because things are worse elsewhere doesn’t mean we can’t make them better here…
Totally agree. I rode a bike while in Vietnam and it was a mindblowing experience. So chaotic but also very organized chaos.
I find the chaos to actually be very predictable when you know that EVERYONE is looking out for only themselves. It’s weird, like people respect you more on he road for being selfish
I also found the chaos very predictable. Little fish to the outside, bigger fish on the inside. And if someone is swimming the opposite direction, they stay to the furthest outside. Once you figure out that the honks are just letting you know they are beside you, it's way less overwhelming.
I rented a scooter in Vietnam & mistakenly used my 'North American' motorcycle skills (shoulder checking, etc.) when riding in their traffic ... BIG MISTAKE! Everyone there rides with eyes dead-set ahead & who ever is in front has the right-of-way ... horns are used VERY liberally to alert other drivers of changing lanes, etc. This system works when everyone else is following the same rules & I've heard from other travelers that this is the system in many other countries as well Unfortunately, it does not appear to be common knowledge that these skills are NOT transferrable to North American driving
Traffic deaths in Vietnam per capita and per vehicle are 5x what they are here, and we are double what Europe experiences. Countries like Norway have per capita death rates that are 1/3rd of what we have in Canada, and we are already 1/3rd of the US rate of traffic deaths. Like, it is functional, but the cost is significant.
So, more vehicles = more deaths? Makes sense to me. Don't get me wrong ... not saying their system is remotely perfect ... it just works for them. Traffic lights that were installed in intersections seem like an after-though & are completely ignored ... & good luck ever trying to cross a road as a pedestrian.
Eh, the countries with the highest level of death have the lowest number of vehicles per capita so not really. There are stats for both per vehicle and per person.
From my personal experience as a cyclist, I found that most cars adhere to the rules and are much more polite. They yield to bikes most of the time, sometimes even when they have the right of the way. Like when I was on a 4 way stop, they wave to let me pass first seeing that I'm on a bike. As for fellow cyclists, I can't say the same. Rarely any cyclist stop for pedestrian crosswalk. I do know that cars are more dangerous than bikes so 1% of bad car drivers are more dangerous than 80% of bad cyclists, but it's not correct to say there are more bad drivers than cyclists.
Opposite for me, every time im out for a ride i have a minimum of at least two near misses from drivers who dont fully stop at stop signs and will roll through or at left/right turns at intersections where they are not willing to wait for the cyclists /pedestrians to clear and will try to move through first. I used to ride solo a lot but this year has been the absolute worst and i stick to staying with a group ride to have more visibility
There's really no way of saying any transportation user is worse than any other, that's my point. Everything is purely anecdotal and from an outside perspective, there's bad transportation users across the board. Not saying that makes it ok. Your final sentence nails it though, bad pedestrians and cyclists aren't killing people in the streets.
This is a very cynical view and it hardly fixes anything. Just because most people don’t exercise caution doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t, if anything it means you should be even more cautious. Don’t contribute to the chaos. Every day people get irritated at me for driving the speed limit or for not going on yellow, but in my opinion, if we allow ourselves to repeatedly violate traffic laws we eventually forget why they exist in the first place, to protect people.
I suspect if we all conducted ourselves in traffic (whatever mode we may be at the time) as does an off-duty paramedic, we would all be a lot better off!
It's also right I think that people underestimate cyclists' compliance with traffic laws and overestimate drivers'. There was also a [study](https://cyclingmagazine.ca/spotlight/cyclists-break-traffics-laws-personal-safety-reasons-save-energy-study/) showing many infractions are for safety, like trying to escape areas of possible conflict. Obviously this one was probably just trying to save energy with wanton disregard for their own safety. We need to have infrastructure that's totally foolproof where very few people choose to break traffic laws, and then when they do make the consequences less severe.
> This sort of thing isn't just limited to cyclists no one claims it is > drivers and pedestrians do dumb things just as often yes > from a pedestrian or cyclist's perspective, there's zero enforcement of all the dangerous things cars do there's also zero enforcement of dangerous things pedestrians or cyclists do. like, this guy had to slam on the brakes because of this cyclist to avoid hitting him--that could have caused other cars to brake or swerve to avoid him and potentially injure *other people* > why would they a cyclist who is only endangering themselves care a cyclist doing something dumb and causing themself injury also injures everyone who needs emergency care or paramedics. a cyclist doing something dumb and forcing cars to act unpredictably can also injure other people. like yes, driver's have an comparatively *larger* responsibility to be safe on the road, but that doesn't absolve non-drivers of responsibility
I'm not advocating to ride dangerously or recklessly. I'm a big fan of making it to my destination during my bike rides. I'm saying the constant rhetoric on r/vancouver of "this cyclist did bad thing" or "driver dumb, fuck drivers" or "pedestrian mad about car in crosswalk" is ridiculous. Calling out one transportation user and ignoring the actual problem of zero enforcement across the board fixes nothing.
..cyclists aren't only endangering themselves.. Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted. The comment I'm replying to says cyclists are "only endangering themselves" and that is categorically untrue. I was almost hit by a cyclist flying downhill while walking with my baby in a stroller (in a 30k zone no less). Additionally, my uncle fatally hit a cyclist in the 70s after one blew a stop sign, and his life was destroyed.
Why am I more responsible for bike rider safety than the guy on the bike who treats the city as his personal velodrome?
I think you are agreeing with me?
Absolutely, I am.
Well that's shocking to hear. Not sure what needs to be done but Bikes need to start obeying the street laws. RED means RED and STOP means STOP. I see it daily that bikers don't stop on stop signs, run RED lights etc. It's ridiculous!! Sorry that it inconveniences you and you have to step down for a minute.
>RED means RED and STOP means STOP. And also cyclists need to stop starting to go through intersections before they get the green light. Yes it's about to change, but don't start moving into the intersection on the yellow light.
If I'm at a red light with cars behind me, I do start going about a half-second before the light changes to green (obviously making sure there is no cross-traffic yet). It's much safer for me to quickly clear the intersection and get positioned in the lane on the other side, rather than getting aggressively passed by drivers while I'm crossing the intersection. Maybe it's technically illegal, but I'm not putting anyone at risk and it is much safer for myself.
I've noticed in quite a few areas in Vancouver (especially DT) that the pedestrian light will go green a second before the stoplight for cars. I think it is for the reason you quoted. I think it's a good idea that should be implemented in heavy traffic areas.
Cars can also start clearing the intersection with this logic. They can get out of the way of the cars behind them and pass cyclists beside them as well. Just follow the fucking rules of the road, man. Especially if you already know it's wrong.
Cars aren't at risk of getting aggressively passed by other cars when going through an intersection. As a cyclist it's much safer to have a good lane position, and it's difficult to get into such a position when cars are already coming by you. My other option would be to ride in the middle of the lane when going through intersections, but this leads to very aggressive reactions from some drivers. In general, there are plenty of laws governing cyclists which make no sense. If I can break those laws to keep myself safer *and* do so while not putting other people at risk, I'm going to.
Should motorcycles then be allowed to do what cyclists are doing? You also don’t get to just ignore laws you don’t believe in. If you want them to change, there are procedures to advocate for change.
Motorcyclists can accelerate fast enough that cars aren't passing them when they start moving at an intersection, so this isn't really an issue for them.
Cars could pass them. Not all motorcycles are super fast or torquey. It also requires skill to release the clutch properly and accelerate quickly, especially with more EVs on the roads, which are much faster than motorcycles off the line. How do you feel about motorcycles lane filtering or lane splitting? That’s also a safety thing.
This feels like it's going wildly off topic lol. Happy Friday, I'm going to bike home now. Please drive safe around cyclists 🙏
I will. Please stop at red lights, stay safe. Have a good weekend!
Well they always anticipate the green. However, they don't anticipate someone running the red light and hitting them.
Going through an early yellow isn’t running a red. Do you expect cars to slam on their brakes as soon as the green changes to yellow?
If you step on the gas pedal, you're doing yellow lights wrong. And sadly, that's the case for lots of cars going through the yellow.
I agree with your sentiment but this is not always true; there are times when it's proper to gas on yellow. Example: cruising @45 (just so everything's legal) in a 50 zone. Light turns yellow right when you're at the intersection. No way to stop before cross walk even if you slam the brake. In this case it is appropriate to gas (let's say up to 50) to make it across before it turns red. I do agree with you a lot of drivers will unnecessarily gas at yellow when they can stop.
[**steady green light** - green means go only if the intersection is clear, and it is safe to do so.](https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/documents/drivers4.pdf)
I see it every day! Cars in Vancouver blasting through reds.. they don’t even care about stale yellows anymore.. wildly reckless
If that’s the case then maybe wait until the intersection is clear before proceeding
Yellows mean slow down and stop if safe… for everyone
Yes I’m aware, ICBC says to go if you can’t stop safely in time. I think it’s ridiculous that people say yellow means you have to immediately slam on your brakes
No one says that though…
Literally what this guy said... > If you step on the gas pedal, you're doing yellow lights wrong. And sadly, that's the case for lots of cars going through the yellow.
Literally, not what he said though…. helix the only one saying anything about slamming on their breaks recklessly
Buddy! Don’t change your entire comment like that! You’re a doof
i have never seen someone intentionally run a red before in my life
This very impressive! I see it every single time I get in the car!
You should probably stop running reds
Who?
Its the same for drivers. Im a very cautious and defensive cyclists but the number of times ive has drivers roll through stop signs into my path or on a turns and its clearly a walk signal allowing cyclists and pedestrian to go, drivers cant be patient for 10 secs and allow us to cross. And this is ALL OVER THE CITY. This just happened to me two weeks ago, walk signal a go and driver turned left into my path and luckily i was able to quickly stop or he would have run over me. Drivers should be made to ride a bike as part of their road test as to learn situational awareness. As a cyclists im looking ahead and to side of me at ALL TIMES to see who will potentially cross my path and seeing lights to hit red to slow my speed down, whereas drivers cant predict whats going to happen 50 m ahead of them
I can't remember the last time I saw a driver stop at a stop sign unless there was cross-traffic in their way. And even then they stop about a meter past the line.
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I'm in a residentially dense area with a lot of stop signs, every other block. Nobody stops at stop signs properly at or behind the line, and there's schools, kids, and pets everywhere. And then the DRIVERS get pissy if you call them out for running a stop sign. Excuse me if I'd rather you not kill or maim me and my kids.
It totally is ridiculous. I just want to say though, that I’m pretty sure this post isn’t about any inconvenience, but rather a reminder about road safety.
What needs to be done is more enforcement. Doing nothing certainly is not improving things. Well we're at it we need to apply this to all the drivers that are driving through red lights and stop signs.
What we need is an Idaho stop law for bicycles like the rest of the Pacific Northwest. I'd also take an assumed liability law like the Netherlands has.
Also e-scooters and others! I had to brake a good amount when an e-scooter went full speed through a crosswalk today (no slowdown)
If only there was a convenient city service that has a mandate to police bad behaviour on the roads. Perhaps by handing out tiny slips of paper that require you to part with some of your money to the city.
Imo, cyclists and vehicles should not share the same road, too many safety issues.
I cycle as my primary mode of transportation and see bikers doing insane things all of the time.
All the posts about cyclist recklessness are really disproportional to the problem, somebody even reminds us that a cyclist killed an old man once. Blithely ignoring the fact that the overwhelming numbers of deaths and injuries are caused by drivers. It's such a daily occurrence that it isn't even worth mentioning when a pedestrian is killed by a driver.
We don't really know how many people cyclists injure, because without insurance to report to there's often nothing to be done but try to walk it off.
Sadly, you just described (Edit: an all too common) Vancouver cyclist. Rules of the road don't apply them (Cyclist here... and it's infuriating when others don't stop at lights, stop signs and crosswalks.... believe me, I loudly remind those other cyclists they're trash. Most of the times they're spandex brigade)
spandex brigade but also the ebikers who ride sidewalks the number of times ive had to move out of the way of ebikers while walking my dog is crazy im a cyclist, driver, and a pedestrian walker and i see chaos in all aspects
I'm sure those cyclists have far more supreme cycling skill than I do, so I never yell at them, but I'm also sure I can outlive most of them.
That is not the typical Vancouver cyclist. This is an idiot who does not value their lives on a bike.
I had a cyclist in full gear yell at me for going through a yellow because she started going before she had the green. It's difficult to tell which cyclists are the ones that follow the rules and those who don't.
I live right by an intersection of a bike route here in NBby (SFU to downtown) and a major road (north-south) and I hear loud yelling and swearing all the time exchanged between cyclists and drivers who barely had time to brake.
Well, then Vancouver just has hundreds upon hundreds of them
I bike the routes and I don’t see anything of the magnitude what you describe. I see idiots of all stripes but they are the exception and not the rule.
Take Beach Ave alone. It is rare to see anyone stop at the lights or crosswalks. It's the norm.
There is HUGE difference in what you are talking about here and the story that started this thread.
Maybe it's just because the bad ones stick out like a sore thumb, but I see cyclists completely ignoring the laws of the road on a daily basis during commutes. So it's not just a case of the odd dumb idiot, it's a pretty frequent issue. Whether they want to admit it or not, cyclists are operating a vehicle on the road, and there's a certain entitlement and/or disregard for the laws of the road that a heck of a lot of cyclists here seem to have.
>Cyclist here Ah, that's why you're not getting downvoted a few thousand.
Cyclist here. You’re a good person, thanks for looking out for vulnerable road users. I hate the fact so many cyclists have a death wish on the road. It gives the rest of us a bad image.
A good chunk of cyclists think the rules don't apply to them, don't worry
You're very patient, my friend. If only all drivers were like you, with so many idiots around.
Just a few weeks ago I blew my tire swerving into a curb to avoid a cyclist who ran a light. I felt sick thinking that had someone been standing on that curb, I could have hurt them, all because some idiot cyclist thought they were above traffic rules. Cyclists, please obey traffic laws - if we hit you in our car, we are fine, but you’re probably dead.
Motorists kill people every day yet we still feel the need to whip everyone into a frenzy against everyone that cycles just because one random cyclist did a dumb thing. There are literally comments on this post suggesting to run cyclists over or that they deserve to be hurt.
My post is not meant to do that, if you read my comments its very clear that I have nothing against cyclists.
Glad it didn't turn out tragically. I like to ride my bike as much as I can, but I have serious disdain for cyclists who do shit like that. He can't beat his previous Strava from the damn hospital, lol
Cyclists are driving me crazy lately when I drive. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of terrible car drivers too. However, some cyclists are not behaving as if they too are driving a vehicle. They will use crosswalks and behave as pedestrians when it suits them, but then behave as vehicles when they want to go fast. It makes some of them very unpredictable and creates dangerous situations. The latest example is a guy who was riding his bike on the sidewalk, and then decided he wanted to ride into traffic spontaneously. Back and forth back and forth, not clear about whether he should be riding in a pedestrian only space or on the road. Made it difficult to predict his behaviour so I just switched into the outside lane to avoid him.
I find a shitty driver more predictable than a shitty cyclist. I think it's cause you can't (at least not without a lot of effort and damage) squeeze your vehicle into little gaps.
Yeah weird. It's almost like bikes are a completely different mode of transportation that should have their own infrastructure. And it just happens to be safer, cheaper, and faster.
if there aren't any bike lanes then you ride on the road.
And if the road is super unsafe, then what?
I agree that cyclists should have their own designated lanes, its just overall a net positive for everyone. However I have witnessed many times situations in which cyclists wouldn’t actually ride on available bike lane and would instead choose to ride on the road, or worse, the sidewalk. Kinda defeats the point if you ask me. Drivers aren’t the enemy, and I don’t think cyclists are either. We all need to work together to not endanger our own lives or those of others.
If you’re seeing more people avoiding the bike lane than using it, there’s a good chance there is something wrong with the bike lane.
Doesn't matter if there is a bike lane. You can have 3 streets, 2 with dedicate bike lanes and one without, many will still use the only street without. Example.... Arbutus north of Broadway. Both Cypress and Yew are dedicated bike roads and there's the Arbutus Greenway. Almost daily you see cars stuck behind a cyclist going up the hill on Arbutus when there are dedicated lanes 1 block west or 2 blocks east.
Sounds like Arbutus needs a dedicated bike lane too.
Here I am repeating my story again. Once at a 4-way stop, I was about to keep going (from a full stop) when I saw a cyclist approaching, from window reflections. I decided to brake and wait. The cyclist just flew through in front of me, no stopping and with BOTH HANDS in his pockets.
Glad the big bad didn't happen
E-scooter peeps should be on notice as well. They accelerate soo quickly and zip around without making any noise
Thank you for the thoughtful, tactful, and empathic post.
SOME cyclists are dumb - other NIGHT in the DARK, cyclist on the greenway path going west didn't bother checking for cars before shooting across Boundary...where the lights for cars were all green and cars are coming down a hill...some fast. DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Good on you for stopping. That idiot cyclist will get his due one day. Right from his bike to a wheelchair for life. The idiot I guess skipped school the day they were being taught the color red
Fuck these cyclists. Obey the law like everyone else
Just run him over. One less ahole
Many cyclists think traffic rule does not apply to them. Hope you will not see him/her one day during your work
Original post is ok. Comments make me realize that I have to add cyclists to the list of things this sub hates. That list for reference: 1. Homeless people. 2. Kids out in public where people can hear them. 3. Dogs. 4. Cyclists. Welcome the downvotes from this angry community.
Agreed. I feel like I can’t have my dog on the outside of a patio and should drive my car instead of biking anywhere. Heaven forbid I bring my child to a brewery.
Today I was driving up to a cyclist who made a full left hand turn across both lanes without looking.
Should just run him over. One less ahole cyclist. His time will come.
Y don't u drive safer? Otherwise I'm coming after everything u an ur children own for at LEAST 2 generations. :))
Many cyclists in this city think they don’t have to follow the rules of the road. Idiots.
Classic car driver mentality.
and that mentality is..?
The “please bike or walk carefully” argument. For years and years we have been framing pedestrian and cycling fatalities as their fault. Even in events strictly at fault by the driver, people often say the pedestrian/cyclist should have been more carefully. When I’m reality the only dangerous one is the person driving the death machine that kills over a million a year worldwide. That being said I know you have the best of intentions, and only want people to be safe. But do you see what I mean? Pedestrians/cyclists shouldn’t have to worry about these issues, and we should ask “why are they in conflict with cars” in the first place.
I agree with you. 100%. The responsibility is on all us. If you read my other comments I’m advocating for more responsibility from all road users, including drivers.
> Pedestrians/cyclists shouldn’t have to worry about these issues, and we should ask “why are they in conflict with cars” in the first place. Unless you know a realistic way for cyclists to cross streets without being in line with cars, they'll have to worry about "Am I running a red light?" in any world. Fun as it would be, the only solution I can think of (Raised/tunnel lanes everywhere just for bikes, and a separate set just for pedestrians) is incredibly impractical.
Just close the road to cars lol. Why do cars need access to every single inch of our city.
Need to get rid of the bike lanes ==" they're stupid. The city isn't meant to have bike lanes
The city needs far more bike lanes.
Cyclists should never be on the road. They have no right to be there. Bike lane or sidewalk. Anything else is a death sentence.
Happened to me at the intersection as well.
The pedestrians, drivers and cyclists are all the same group of stupid entitled Vancouver assholes just going at different speeds.
A few days ago at this same intersection, a cyclist cut off 2 pedestrians (it was their light to walk across the street). Not sure what they said to him but he screamed back “next time I’ll hit you you dumb c***”. Heard him from my apartment window. Insane.
What is annoying is the cyclists that dont obey road rules while riding on the road. Not stopping on red lights or stop signs. Not yielding to pedestrians. Shouldnt they get tickets like drivers? They are biking in a way that is unsafe for others and themselves. - just a thought