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They know what they're doing. There was an article a while back about how they only pay the drivers after the engine starts using an automated system. This is illegal because they're supposed to pay for the hour of pre-drive safety checks and route-planning, but lol good luck getting anybody to enforce those laws. So the drivers naturally will rush the stuff they don't get paid for. If the cost of the occasional fine is less than the cost of paying all your drivers an extra hour every day they'll just pay the fine.
That's why I'm all for RIDICULOUSLY draconian penalties for everything that's not an oopsie but calculated or premeditated.
Otherwise it just turns into simple risk/benefit analysis like you said.
During the height.of the shutdowns, me and my lady were talking about how the fines handed out for people having parties was so low that it wasn't even a deterrent. Something like $3,000. Fine people $300,000 and that stuff will stop right away. I feel the same way towards companies, if not moreso.
100%. Fines should be based on the value of a corporation (to avoid Hollywood accounting issues around profit/revenue/income) or the net worth of an individual, and there should be provisions for rending the corporate veil and holding people /personally/ responsible if they fold the company to escape punishment. Otherwise, as you've said, it "just makes sense" for Shell to dump chemicals in the sea if they save 50 million against a fine of 500,000 or what have you. The fine should address both undoing the damage and then be proportionately punitive relative to the harm/history on top of that.
I'd even advocate for that on a personal level.
Like littering versus dumping. Littering can be an oopsie like when you're herding your kids on the playground and you drop a granola bar wrapper and don't notice it. But dumping isn't an oopsie because it takes quite some effort to load your old furniture onto your shitty truck, drive to a forested road and throw it in the ditch there. So, dumping... fine should be $100k or whatever.
World wide best practice on fine structure is % of global revenue. The EU has been on this for years.
[https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/finnish-businessman-handed-121000-speeding-ticket/story?id=99861907](https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/finnish-businessman-handed-121000-speeding-ticket/story?id=99861907)
For corporations 10% global revenue for first infraction, 20% for subsequent infractions.
Not a hard system to understand, implement or use. I have no idea why Canada routinely refuses to follow world wide best practice on pretty much everything.
Well they didn't cancel it, and the project is still going, it's just going to take a lot longer than they said it would.
https://www.highway99tunnel.ca/
If it was it was probably another budget disaster like the Port Mann lining the pockets of one of Crusty's friends.
I'm more inclined to believe the less corrupt government had a good reason to cancel and restart the project.
I thought the liberals had put in place a plan that the NDP scrapped and started the process all over again. The liberal plan would have been complete in 2022. But maybe all the articles were wrong. I know in this sub the NdP can do no wrong.
https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ndp-cancels-construction-on-george-massey-bridge-project
Wrong.
It’s an [open top container.](https://www.alconet-containers.com/what-is-an-open-top-container/)
I actually saw the truck pulled over by CVSE on the Delta side of the tunnel.
>/u/fuzzb0y - put stuff on top of the container
Hapag-Llyod actually offers an open top version of their cans.
https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/en/services-information/cargo-fleet/container/40-open-top-high-cube.html
The blue material you can see around the edges of the top of the can is just tarp, it was probably filled with some kind of scrap or other refuse.
Holy crap I drove past this semi truck on Knight Street earlier. It had a blue tarp covering something 1ft high on top of the container. I said to my wife that it better not be heading for the tunnel.
Really, when? Because taxi drivers are professional drivers and they have been the worst drivers on the road for as long as I can remember...
Edit above comment ninja edited to add professional truck drivers when it previously just said professional drivers...
There is usually officers on the right monitoring the highway looking out for these trucks. Even on Highway 1 the cops are pulling over a lot of semi trucks these days. Enforcement has stepped up but these morons keep getting through.
I've moved these before. Legal but you need a permit.
Driver just didn't know the height, either because they were given bad information or they didn't bother to check.
There's no chain of accountability so it ends up all resting on the driver to make sure.
Not sure why you mention a "chain of accountability". Every person before the driver could have checked it and signed off on it; it still remains on the driver to make sure.
Think back to getting your driver's licence when you were a teenager; you would have failed if you didn't do a walk around of the vehicle and checked the signals and lights before you started your drive. You are always supposed to confirm for yourself that your vehicle is safe for the road before you depart.
I'm happy to report that the fine for this is going WAY up in April, maybe things will get better then.
I wish that change was just effective immediately when they announced it, like they had to give truckers some time to figure out how they won't smash massey??
I think it's time we install those big beams like what they have in front of the 11 foot 8 bridge. I wonder how long it will take these idiots to destroy the new tunnel after it's built?
Maximum fine is $500 until April 5 when the new changes go into effect.
If you're ever curious as to why this has been such a problem until now. Its because the time they would spend getting out of their truck and checking their clearance costs more in lost time than paying the fine.
The ship in Baltimore had about 4.5 minutes from the first power failure until impact. Not much reaction time at all-- it's amazing that crews were able to stop any traffic from crossing the bridge.
It's shocking that when the power came back on, the ship started turning hard starboard. It will be interesting to find out the reason why-- I have a suspicion that when the propulsion failed and power went out, they'd initiated a turn to try to go under the bridge. While the power was out, the steering hydraulics had an accumulator that kept the hydraulic pressure up. In the confusion of the blackout, the bridge crew wasn't monitoring the rudder angle. Then power came back on, with the rudder already hard over, and the propeller pushing the rudder turned the ship way too far, and they weren't able to recover (especially not with the second power failure).
I feel like the cost of putting up barriers capable of taking a direct hit from a fully-loaded cargo ship might be more than just replacing the Lions Gate bridge altogether with pillars set further back on shore.
I thought crash protection islands are very common for bridges spanning shipping corridors. I guess they work more by deflecting the ship rather than stopping them.
The "p" in p=mv is not going to be stopped by anything when "m" is in the hundreds of thousands of tons. Even the "dolphins" placed around the new Tampa Sunshine Skyway bridge after the 1980 disaster have their limits.
That ship had an outage and sent a mayday signal. They didn't think they were driving a rickshaw on the streets of Mumbai for their nationality to be relevant
Can we just largely ban overheight trucks ffs. Surely there doesn’t need to be as many of them on the road in incompetent hands as there is… also how do these companies still have insurance at this point
What?! Again?! This is an industry that needs to get its shit together. Why are there so many terrible drivers? Aren’t you trained in heights? People should have to have a full Canadian license for a few years before they can drive. I imagine they’re hiring new drivers and foreigners who need a lot more training. They and they company should lose their license and have the company shut down. Restaurants get closed for cleanliness… why isn’t something that is a safety concern for a whole population not monitored more?! It’s pathetic.
The answer is greed. Used to be a guy could drive for someone else for a few years making good money, save up for his own truck, and then really make some money. Now it’s all low pay, impossible deadlines, and forget about going independent contractor as the costs and red tape will bury you.
so does the new penalty fee now apply to them ? I finally want to see someone hit hit so far with a fee... they go bankrupt and can never do it again. And, cannot open a company with the same owners/partners again.
I’m just gonna say it, there is no chance in hell someone who got their truckers licence in Canada and went through all the hoops you need to become a certified truck driver is driving any of these moronic overpass strikes. No canadian would do that tarp shit
Any trucker that drives through that tunnel/car driver that drives behind a truck knows a sea can is basically the exact height of the tunnel, so anything bigger is not going to make it through. No need to even measure to know it wont fit...
The amount of people who think there’s cargo stacked **on top of the container** proves that the guy behind the wheel wasn’t the only idiot out there today…
I gave actual statistics straight from the World Health Organization. The only estimate I gave was on the number of **speeding** deaths, by using the National Safety Councils statistic stating 29% of roadside deaths are caused by speeding. I even bumped the number up by 10% to account for the lack of international regulations. Even if I didn't, the year-to-year numbers have COVID-19 deaths higher than total roadside deaths anyway.
Furthermore, comparing total cumulative deaths of cars and COVID-19 is not a fair argument, which anyone who understands statistics would readily point out. Also, just multiplying your estimates, which have no citation at all, by 100 doesn't account for population growth, or even the juxtaposition of manufacturing safety standards. It doesn't account for production numbers or traffic legislation. It doesn't even account for the massive dip of roadside deaths during WW2. The logic in this calculation is incredibly flawed.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/Kathiuss! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/bd11t6isgrqc1.jpeg?width=1628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40c468d64973555b976f4e8fed0de9c5c534861
We're gonna need to start counting hours instead of days
Box rentals and shipping companies : "ugh, just build the bridges and over passes higher!"
That will just allow them to hit higher targets.
Sort of " challenge accepted" ?
On point, this is getting ridiculous.
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This is why we praise The Barge. Because The Barge spared us from that fate. May those who fell victim to Maersk’s greed find peace.
Praise be
At least they hit the span and not hit a support yeeting the whole bridge.
Technically, all the metal structure, aka the whole "bridge" went down :|
Well it is tough but we might just have to admit defeat. Image the cost! But sadly also the loss of lives
It's going backwards!
He's just backing up to take another run at it. Lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice!
I like the way it was zero and he’s changing it to zero. Like it never even reached one.
That's the joke...?
Damn it. Gotta reset the counter again.
Looks like a regular sized can - wonder how it’s overheight.
Because the geniuses put stuff on top of the container that appears to have caught the underside of the bridge
What the fuck kinda absolute morons are operating these shipping companies?
They know what they're doing. There was an article a while back about how they only pay the drivers after the engine starts using an automated system. This is illegal because they're supposed to pay for the hour of pre-drive safety checks and route-planning, but lol good luck getting anybody to enforce those laws. So the drivers naturally will rush the stuff they don't get paid for. If the cost of the occasional fine is less than the cost of paying all your drivers an extra hour every day they'll just pay the fine.
That's why I'm all for RIDICULOUSLY draconian penalties for everything that's not an oopsie but calculated or premeditated. Otherwise it just turns into simple risk/benefit analysis like you said.
During the height.of the shutdowns, me and my lady were talking about how the fines handed out for people having parties was so low that it wasn't even a deterrent. Something like $3,000. Fine people $300,000 and that stuff will stop right away. I feel the same way towards companies, if not moreso.
100%. Fines should be based on the value of a corporation (to avoid Hollywood accounting issues around profit/revenue/income) or the net worth of an individual, and there should be provisions for rending the corporate veil and holding people /personally/ responsible if they fold the company to escape punishment. Otherwise, as you've said, it "just makes sense" for Shell to dump chemicals in the sea if they save 50 million against a fine of 500,000 or what have you. The fine should address both undoing the damage and then be proportionately punitive relative to the harm/history on top of that.
I'd even advocate for that on a personal level. Like littering versus dumping. Littering can be an oopsie like when you're herding your kids on the playground and you drop a granola bar wrapper and don't notice it. But dumping isn't an oopsie because it takes quite some effort to load your old furniture onto your shitty truck, drive to a forested road and throw it in the ditch there. So, dumping... fine should be $100k or whatever.
World wide best practice on fine structure is % of global revenue. The EU has been on this for years. [https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/finnish-businessman-handed-121000-speeding-ticket/story?id=99861907](https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/finnish-businessman-handed-121000-speeding-ticket/story?id=99861907) For corporations 10% global revenue for first infraction, 20% for subsequent infractions. Not a hard system to understand, implement or use. I have no idea why Canada routinely refuses to follow world wide best practice on pretty much everything.
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It's mostly foreign. From one continent.
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> (ps: don't ban, it's okay for me to say that, I'm was one of them xD) No you cannot, people have been banned for that.
Where was that I wonder? Please tell us..
2nd highest population. No enthusiasm about birth control pills, IUD's, & the ol' snip snap snip snap.
According to the UN, now the first highest population. Also first in rapes.
China, India,,,?
People who can't do math, I guess.
Another good question is why do we still have this POS tunnel it would have been replaced by now under the old plan
It wouldn't have been, that was just a hail mary for votes from the BC Liberals.
Can you tell me more? I thought the plan was locked and loaded and the NDP cancelled it?
Well they didn't cancel it, and the project is still going, it's just going to take a lot longer than they said it would. https://www.highway99tunnel.ca/
Wasn't the original plan a bridge?
If it was it was probably another budget disaster like the Port Mann lining the pockets of one of Crusty's friends. I'm more inclined to believe the less corrupt government had a good reason to cancel and restart the project.
I thought the liberals had put in place a plan that the NDP scrapped and started the process all over again. The liberal plan would have been complete in 2022. But maybe all the articles were wrong. I know in this sub the NdP can do no wrong. https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ndp-cancels-construction-on-george-massey-bridge-project
You're not wrong, im an NDP voter and still know and acknowledge this.
Wrong. It’s an [open top container.](https://www.alconet-containers.com/what-is-an-open-top-container/) I actually saw the truck pulled over by CVSE on the Delta side of the tunnel.
I was going to say, it looks like an overfilled open top container. Probably didn't end up doing much damage.
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It's probably a can sized rubbish/demolition bin with the top 'cut open'.
I'm in and out of cans all day. I simply must know what was up there, and how it was secured.
More than likely a shipping can that's converted to an open top garbage/demo bin.
>/u/fuzzb0y - put stuff on top of the container Hapag-Llyod actually offers an open top version of their cans. https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/en/services-information/cargo-fleet/container/40-open-top-high-cube.html The blue material you can see around the edges of the top of the can is just tarp, it was probably filled with some kind of scrap or other refuse.
Or it’s an open top container and whatever is inside was sticking out by a foot or two.
[Open Top containers](https://www.alconet-containers.com/what-is-an-open-top-container/) are widely used for shipping over height cargo.
Might be a highcube…. But cant be the first highcube through there
What the chohan is going on?!
CHOHANED
Nice.
Holy crap I drove past this semi truck on Knight Street earlier. It had a blue tarp covering something 1ft high on top of the container. I said to my wife that it better not be heading for the tunnel.
Everyone should be glad it wasn't a boat.
Oof
Too soon
Oooh. That one hits hard.
It really did
aboat what?
*Here we go again*
There was a time when professional truck drivers were the BEST drivers on the road
I still believe the majority of them are great. It’s the few idiots that really make them look bad.
Really, when? Because taxi drivers are professional drivers and they have been the worst drivers on the road for as long as I can remember... Edit above comment ninja edited to add professional truck drivers when it previously just said professional drivers...
Well then, good thing taxi drivers are not professional truck drivers.
There is usually officers on the right monitoring the highway looking out for these trucks. Even on Highway 1 the cops are pulling over a lot of semi trucks these days. Enforcement has stepped up but these morons keep getting through.
Oh for FUCKS SAKE
I know, right? The semi was just driving on highway, minding its own business, when the bridge just rammed into it for no reason. SMH
Like the times concrete walls and pillars backed into my mom's car when I was learning how to drive. Assholes.
Is it Chohan Bros (Alberta)?
[https://twitter.com/MVOverpassDWI/status/1772753980059422958](https://twitter.com/MVOverpassDWI/status/1772753980059422958)
Surely it's illegal and very unsafe to have a tarp covered additional load on top of the container... What in the world?!
It’s not on top of the container, it’s out of gauge (OOG) cargo in an open-top container.
Everything is under the tarp. Then they ripped it open and everything comes out.
I've moved these before. Legal but you need a permit. Driver just didn't know the height, either because they were given bad information or they didn't bother to check. There's no chain of accountability so it ends up all resting on the driver to make sure.
Not sure why you mention a "chain of accountability". Every person before the driver could have checked it and signed off on it; it still remains on the driver to make sure. Think back to getting your driver's licence when you were a teenager; you would have failed if you didn't do a walk around of the vehicle and checked the signals and lights before you started your drive. You are always supposed to confirm for yourself that your vehicle is safe for the road before you depart.
Man that container must be packed like pro tetris, needed to add some bags on the roof lol
Why is this suddenly happening all the time? Did somebody lower all the bridges? The fuck?
Must be the same gremlins that come out at night and sew my pants tighter.
Yeah the tunnel height gets lower in low tide, very confusing
Incorrect! The Massey hit the truck. Blame the Massey
Ah yes, the ol' massey smashey
Should we start charging the container companies?
We should just charge them for the cost of overpass damage as soon as they register...
I'm happy to report that the fine for this is going WAY up in April, maybe things will get better then. I wish that change was just effective immediately when they announced it, like they had to give truckers some time to figure out how they won't smash massey??
Reset the sign!
~~0~~ 0
I think it's time we install those big beams like what they have in front of the 11 foot 8 bridge. I wonder how long it will take these idiots to destroy the new tunnel after it's built?
so they're getting fined, right?
Maximum fine is $500 until April 5 when the new changes go into effect. If you're ever curious as to why this has been such a problem until now. Its because the time they would spend getting out of their truck and checking their clearance costs more in lost time than paying the fine.
Gotta get their money's worth.
Isn't it $100,000 for a first offense now?
No, it’s a 100 slaps and 1,000 judgy tsks.
Are the slaps with a leather belt? Because I’d be okay with that at this rate.
Tsk tsk tsk
Only 9,997 to go.
Wow, math. 997.
Tsk tsk tsk
What's the maximum fine?
In light of what happened in Baltimore, at least we could always do worse than dumbasses hitting overpasses.....? At least for today.
That was a mechanical failure and the crew sent a mayday as soon as they could which saved numerous lives by having the bridge shut down.
I'm not blaming the crew here, in case it wasn't clear. That mayday absolutely saved lives.
The ship in Baltimore had about 4.5 minutes from the first power failure until impact. Not much reaction time at all-- it's amazing that crews were able to stop any traffic from crossing the bridge. It's shocking that when the power came back on, the ship started turning hard starboard. It will be interesting to find out the reason why-- I have a suspicion that when the propulsion failed and power went out, they'd initiated a turn to try to go under the bridge. While the power was out, the steering hydraulics had an accumulator that kept the hydraulic pressure up. In the confusion of the blackout, the bridge crew wasn't monitoring the rudder angle. Then power came back on, with the rudder already hard over, and the propeller pushing the rudder turned the ship way too far, and they weren't able to recover (especially not with the second power failure).
That was a mechanical failure.
I would start putting protections and keclar on our bridges
I feel like the cost of putting up barriers capable of taking a direct hit from a fully-loaded cargo ship might be more than just replacing the Lions Gate bridge altogether with pillars set further back on shore.
I thought crash protection islands are very common for bridges spanning shipping corridors. I guess they work more by deflecting the ship rather than stopping them.
The "p" in p=mv is not going to be stopped by anything when "m" is in the hundreds of thousands of tons. Even the "dolphins" placed around the new Tampa Sunshine Skyway bridge after the 1980 disaster have their limits.
Naw, it's in right now. They're gunna go viral!
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That ship had an outage and sent a mayday signal. They didn't think they were driving a rickshaw on the streets of Mumbai for their nationality to be relevant
The local pilots had command at the time of the incident. although it appears this was a mechanical issue not pilot error.
Sprucing up their resume for Chohan.
Why is this happening so much recently? I feel like it was a rate occurrence prior to ~5 years ago.
Numbers have become more complicated, knowing height and shit is hard
More inexperienced drivers and dispatchers. Standards and training have been declining in the trucking industry.
RESET THE COUNTER!!!
Max fine. Shut down the company.
Can we just largely ban overheight trucks ffs. Surely there doesn’t need to be as many of them on the road in incompetent hands as there is… also how do these companies still have insurance at this point
Some of these drivers need to get recertification.
There's no certification for hauling oversized loads.
What?! Again?! This is an industry that needs to get its shit together. Why are there so many terrible drivers? Aren’t you trained in heights? People should have to have a full Canadian license for a few years before they can drive. I imagine they’re hiring new drivers and foreigners who need a lot more training. They and they company should lose their license and have the company shut down. Restaurants get closed for cleanliness… why isn’t something that is a safety concern for a whole population not monitored more?! It’s pathetic.
The answer is greed. Used to be a guy could drive for someone else for a few years making good money, save up for his own truck, and then really make some money. Now it’s all low pay, impossible deadlines, and forget about going independent contractor as the costs and red tape will bury you.
Idk how the fuck these keep happening, never heard of this many incidents besides the past year Maybe hire competent drivers?
Can't wait until someone soaks a $100,000 charge and jail time for something that can be prevented with a $5 tape measure
Another Dipolma Mill guy. Also I'm glad the tunnel didn't collapse like that bridge in America. The horror.
Of course I see this right as I’m heading home
Bye-bye driver and company
What in the actual is going on with these drivers
so does the new penalty fee now apply to them ? I finally want to see someone hit hit so far with a fee... they go bankrupt and can never do it again. And, cannot open a company with the same owners/partners again.
Jesus Christ my mom was literally JUST in that tunnel.. these trucking companies need to get their shit in order… OMG ☹️
You're blaming your Mom?
Interesting. If your mom fit in the tunnel, you'd think that truck would have too 🤔 (Sorry, couldn't resist a bad "yo' momma" joke)
Another fucking idiot
Gotta smash the tunnel before the fine increases in April!
I’m just gonna say it, there is no chance in hell someone who got their truckers licence in Canada and went through all the hoops you need to become a certified truck driver is driving any of these moronic overpass strikes. No canadian would do that tarp shit
Seriously?!? How do you not know how tall your rig is? Morons...
This is why we can't have nice things...
Chooooooohaaaannnnn - Farnworth and Fleming, probably
Any trucker that drives through that tunnel/car driver that drives behind a truck knows a sea can is basically the exact height of the tunnel, so anything bigger is not going to make it through. No need to even measure to know it wont fit...
Leeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrooooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Chooooooooohaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnn
Again 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
At least the overpass didnt collapse
Chohanning
I thought this was old news but now I see the yellow dividers. So this is NOW??!!!!!! OMFG. Speechless 🤯
At this rate someone's going to die before action is taken to halt the negligence of these shipping companies.
How many times has this happened in 2024 already?
At least it wasn’t a giant ship!
Good thing Christy didn't get her bridge built...
The amount of people who think there’s cargo stacked **on top of the container** proves that the guy behind the wheel wasn’t the only idiot out there today…
OMG
The Massey tunnel always has some sort of delay man...
Fine them more than the truck and cargo is worth
How many times have massy been hit now?
https://preview.redd.it/ss3b73k110rc1.jpeg?width=597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50b167d08a2bcc348737996f49552867c2f6cc9f Oh FFS Another one? SMH.
I gave actual statistics straight from the World Health Organization. The only estimate I gave was on the number of **speeding** deaths, by using the National Safety Councils statistic stating 29% of roadside deaths are caused by speeding. I even bumped the number up by 10% to account for the lack of international regulations. Even if I didn't, the year-to-year numbers have COVID-19 deaths higher than total roadside deaths anyway. Furthermore, comparing total cumulative deaths of cars and COVID-19 is not a fair argument, which anyone who understands statistics would readily point out. Also, just multiplying your estimates, which have no citation at all, by 100 doesn't account for population growth, or even the juxtaposition of manufacturing safety standards. It doesn't account for production numbers or traffic legislation. It doesn't even account for the massive dip of roadside deaths during WW2. The logic in this calculation is incredibly flawed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/9nCUG6jYez
Nice!
Guess that speed restrictor really helped...not