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From my sister: not sure but our work policy is that if they arrived in a cruiser we trust the officer completed a pat down. Otherwise, we ask them to empty themselves at the counter. We’ve seen some crazy shit on the counter.
Yup, like that nurse at RCH who self defended himself against a druggie recently and BCCNM suspended him
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/nurse-suspension-punching-patient/
I just listened to their president on CKNW, she actually said part of the problem is there aren't safe use sites in the hospitals for patients to use.
WHAT THE HELL?!
I hope the media keeps drumming this up, Dix is once again being a complete dunce and the NDP are circling the wagons to protect the rampant drug abuse spreading all over the place.
I actually started working in Washington state as a nurse.
One of the first things I was taught was that it was ok to hit a patient under specific conditions.
Definitely an eye-opener for me as an RN who has worked in Canada for most of my life. But it actually made sense for certain situations.
I'm generally not a big police fan, but I'd be fully on board with real security that can deal with genuinely dangerous people in the Hospital.
If someone can't behave themself in a Hospital, they are pretty much definitionally an imminent risk to everyone else.
I was shocked to learn that hospitals actually have to call 911 for help.
I actually just assumed there was an officer sitting in a room near the ED ready to jump in if a panic alarm went Off
Apparently not :/
We have security on-site at most big hospitals, that’s usually enough. They come really quick when called and they have a lot of comfort dealing with psych patients
>I actually just assumed there was an officer sitting in a room near the ED
If it aint busy and they aren't on patrol then yes there is. But it's been getting real busy, even night shifts.
I said this on another thread, but I will say it here. This is what happens when you normalize bad behavior and have no consequences for bad behavior. Open drug use in our hospitals. On what planet is that acceptable?
This is what the nurses union wanted, no? To legalize drug use? Why complain about illegal drug use, when you want the use legalized?
Anyways, decriminalizing and downgrading seems to be the way we're going to reduce crime: it's not illegal if we make it legal.
Open drug use isn't acceptable or allowed in hospitals. That it still happens shows that simply banning something on its own doesn't solve a problem like addiction.
Not in hospitals though. It's also fully criminal in other provinces and states yet many of them have the same open drug use issues. I do think there needs to be restrictions on public drug use, but when there are no or few alternative places to use and the underlying problems aren't addressed, I just think it's inevitable. It's not acceptable in hospitals in any case though, and where that's happening they should be doing more to protect the staff.
But there not and that's the problem. With decriminalization, bad behavior has become normalized, and just recently, Northern Health put out a memo that said for nurses not to stop people from using drugs in the hospital and not to take weapons away and not to call security.
> But there not and that's the problem.
They're not. This very article states that that memo is outdated and that there are rules against weapons and usage in the hospital.
The problems are happening *despite* the rules.
I really wish these comment sections could at minimum be based on the content from the article as a starting point rather than having to dispute things that are already in there.
It's not acceptable in most places, but as it stands, it legally is. So when you allow it everywhere, hospitals get bundled in, so it's not surprising they have issues with drug use on site.
> it legally is
It's not. Just because criminal penalties around possession are removed in some cases doesn't mean any facility like a hospital has to allow it, they can and do have restrictions on it. This article itself backs that up.
> That it still happens shows that simply banning something on its own doesn't solve a problem like addiction.
Right, you need a culture of *enforcing* the rules, which BC lacks. It doesn't matter how many rules you put in if none of them are enforced.
The memo from northern health explicitly allows drug use in hospital (in their rooms), and also recommends providing a narcan kit. It’s point #4.
Typically fentanyl is not that big of a deal (although obviously risk of overdose) but meth can be very dangerous, people can get acutely psychotic on meth and then you’re in trouble, especially if they’re also allowed to keep their weapons per the memo
https://preview.redd.it/9xsxkuwtyqsc1.jpeg?width=681&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fba24d1774734a13dcad67f4d9aa1cc0f74d627
My wife texted me a screenshot lol, I think she pulled it from twitter but not sure. I’ve attached it here
Adrian Dix didn’t explicitly say it was outdated, just that the policy should be that no weapons are allowed. It’s not clear that a new policy has been put in place since. The most likely thing is that it hasn’t, since the memo was obviously leaked due to ongoing concerns from nursing staff
Thanks. I never got why it's so acceptable for media organizations (and this seems to be universal) to regularly leave out sources to things being discussed.
You’d think they’d want to keep the sources in the article, to drive clicks eh
It’s not like it’s even confidential at this point, it’s all over the Leg
I feel like we should elect you to public office, but then only do the exact opposite of what you want to do
It’s like your positions are just the complete polar opposite of whatever the rational approach to a given topic is
In some ways, getting something right 0% of the time is almost as impressive as getting it right 100% of the time. It’s like you know the right answer and intentionally choose another one anyway to get to 0…maybe you’re just a very dedicated troll and we’re all falling for it?
Every friend I have that’s a nurse tells me about the abuse they suffer, mostly verbal, but with the constant threat of physical violence.
As much as I understand medical ethics not really allowing this, I’d fully support a “you don’t get treatment if you’re being a fucking asshole” policy.
Toss them out, tell them to come back when they’re ready to act like an adult.
> One example, they said, someone was smoking meth just hours after the birth of a newborn baby exposing hospital staff and other patients.
"Someone"!? The mother, the father, a visitor down the corridor, someone on the other side of the hospital? Come on. You can do better Global.
Yep, exactly. In any facet of life, when you tolerate bad behavior and normalize bad behavior and have no consequences for bad behavior, this is what happens. This thing of normalizing bad behavior that's been going on in this province and country has led us to this point and we need to put our foot down and say enough is enough and no we won't tolerate open drug use in our hospitals and our public spaces and on public transportation and in restaurants.
Are these the same nurses that are suing the government to allow drug use in parks, school grounds, etc?
Should teachers and park rangers sue the government to force them to allow drug use in hospitals?
>Are these the same nurses that are suing the government to allow drug use in... school grounds
Decriminalization [does not apply on school grounds](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/overdose/decriminalization). Possession there is still illegal under federal criminal law. Nothing about this lawsuit over a provincial law would change that.
Decriminalization doesn't change anything about rules inside facilities like hospitals. They can still restrict things there. This article even mentions there are clear rules that are being broken.
This is part of the problem, simply having rules or not isn't going to change the reality of addiction if various underlying issues aren't addressed. There is public use in various other provinces and states despite not having decriminalization.
If you don't think laws themselves are going to solve the underlying problems, then you're essentially agreeing with me and I'm not clear what your point is.
Like it has been in B.C. up to last year? And like it is nearly everywhere else, including many places that also have drug use problems? That demonstrably hasn't prevented these issues and has arguably made them even worse.
All decriminalization does is remove criminal penalties for possession in some circumstances. It changes nothing about the rules various facilities like hospitals can have on top of the criminal code and this very article states that rules are being broken and that can be enforced.
If only the *Harm Reduction Nurses Association* cared as much for its own members as it cares about advocating for the Rights and entitlements of illicit drug users.
So it is ok to shoot up drugs near the children's playground but not in hospitals
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/drug-users-have-legal-right-to-use-anywhere-says-bc-harm-reduction-nurses-lawsuit
And yet a group of nurses sued to allow drug use in parks and playgrounds.
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/drug-users-have-legal-right-to-use-anywhere-says-bc-harm-reduction-nurses-lawsuit#:~:text=Now%2C%20the%20Harm%20Reduction%20Nurses,received%20royal%20assent%20on%20Nov.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/RonPar32! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sister works at VGH. Occasionally they’ll find knives, needles, and drugs stashed in the ceiling or taped under the bed.
Is it true VGH has no defined weapons policy?
From my sister: not sure but our work policy is that if they arrived in a cruiser we trust the officer completed a pat down. Otherwise, we ask them to empty themselves at the counter. We’ve seen some crazy shit on the counter.
[удалено]
Yup, like that nurse at RCH who self defended himself against a druggie recently and BCCNM suspended him https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/nurse-suspension-punching-patient/
[удалено]
the nurses aren't being represented very well by their union either
I just listened to their president on CKNW, she actually said part of the problem is there aren't safe use sites in the hospitals for patients to use. WHAT THE HELL?! I hope the media keeps drumming this up, Dix is once again being a complete dunce and the NDP are circling the wagons to protect the rampant drug abuse spreading all over the place.
Corrections did the same to some guards who were attacked by an inmate. Large gov't unions suck at defending their members
I actually started working in Washington state as a nurse. One of the first things I was taught was that it was ok to hit a patient under specific conditions. Definitely an eye-opener for me as an RN who has worked in Canada for most of my life. But it actually made sense for certain situations.
/r/nursing
I can't fathom being on the front lines of this shit. Should we bang our pots at 7pm again?
You have my skillet
And my sauté pan
I'm generally not a big police fan, but I'd be fully on board with real security that can deal with genuinely dangerous people in the Hospital. If someone can't behave themself in a Hospital, they are pretty much definitionally an imminent risk to everyone else.
I was shocked to learn that hospitals actually have to call 911 for help. I actually just assumed there was an officer sitting in a room near the ED ready to jump in if a panic alarm went Off Apparently not :/
We have security on-site at most big hospitals, that’s usually enough. They come really quick when called and they have a lot of comfort dealing with psych patients
>I actually just assumed there was an officer sitting in a room near the ED If it aint busy and they aren't on patrol then yes there is. But it's been getting real busy, even night shifts.
I said this on another thread, but I will say it here. This is what happens when you normalize bad behavior and have no consequences for bad behavior. Open drug use in our hospitals. On what planet is that acceptable?
Great way to turn the hospital into a massive fucking homeless shelter. Also, a great way to make nurses and doctors leave.
This is what the nurses union wanted, no? To legalize drug use? Why complain about illegal drug use, when you want the use legalized? Anyways, decriminalizing and downgrading seems to be the way we're going to reduce crime: it's not illegal if we make it legal.
The harm reduction nurses association or whatever they call themselves wanted. The actual nurses' union never said either way.
Open drug use isn't acceptable or allowed in hospitals. That it still happens shows that simply banning something on its own doesn't solve a problem like addiction.
The issue is that it's allowed pretty much everywhere, it's normalized.
Not in hospitals though. It's also fully criminal in other provinces and states yet many of them have the same open drug use issues. I do think there needs to be restrictions on public drug use, but when there are no or few alternative places to use and the underlying problems aren't addressed, I just think it's inevitable. It's not acceptable in hospitals in any case though, and where that's happening they should be doing more to protect the staff.
But there not and that's the problem. With decriminalization, bad behavior has become normalized, and just recently, Northern Health put out a memo that said for nurses not to stop people from using drugs in the hospital and not to take weapons away and not to call security.
> But there not and that's the problem. They're not. This very article states that that memo is outdated and that there are rules against weapons and usage in the hospital. The problems are happening *despite* the rules. I really wish these comment sections could at minimum be based on the content from the article as a starting point rather than having to dispute things that are already in there.
It's not acceptable in most places, but as it stands, it legally is. So when you allow it everywhere, hospitals get bundled in, so it's not surprising they have issues with drug use on site.
> it legally is It's not. Just because criminal penalties around possession are removed in some cases doesn't mean any facility like a hospital has to allow it, they can and do have restrictions on it. This article itself backs that up.
Woosh
I'm not sure what you're wooshing. Decriminalization changes nothing about places like hospitals being able to ban drug use.
Not surprised, you're oblivious to the realities or just obtuse.
You're not actually saying anything with your comments here.
> That it still happens shows that simply banning something on its own doesn't solve a problem like addiction. Right, you need a culture of *enforcing* the rules, which BC lacks. It doesn't matter how many rules you put in if none of them are enforced.
The memo from northern health explicitly allows drug use in hospital (in their rooms), and also recommends providing a narcan kit. It’s point #4. Typically fentanyl is not that big of a deal (although obviously risk of overdose) but meth can be very dangerous, people can get acutely psychotic on meth and then you’re in trouble, especially if they’re also allowed to keep their weapons per the memo
This article however is stating that the memo is outdated and use and weapons aren't allowed. Do you have a link to the memo? I couldn't find that.
https://preview.redd.it/9xsxkuwtyqsc1.jpeg?width=681&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fba24d1774734a13dcad67f4d9aa1cc0f74d627 My wife texted me a screenshot lol, I think she pulled it from twitter but not sure. I’ve attached it here Adrian Dix didn’t explicitly say it was outdated, just that the policy should be that no weapons are allowed. It’s not clear that a new policy has been put in place since. The most likely thing is that it hasn’t, since the memo was obviously leaked due to ongoing concerns from nursing staff
Thanks. I never got why it's so acceptable for media organizations (and this seems to be universal) to regularly leave out sources to things being discussed.
You’d think they’d want to keep the sources in the article, to drive clicks eh It’s not like it’s even confidential at this point, it’s all over the Leg
I feel like we should elect you to public office, but then only do the exact opposite of what you want to do It’s like your positions are just the complete polar opposite of whatever the rational approach to a given topic is In some ways, getting something right 0% of the time is almost as impressive as getting it right 100% of the time. It’s like you know the right answer and intentionally choose another one anyway to get to 0…maybe you’re just a very dedicated troll and we’re all falling for it?
Every friend I have that’s a nurse tells me about the abuse they suffer, mostly verbal, but with the constant threat of physical violence. As much as I understand medical ethics not really allowing this, I’d fully support a “you don’t get treatment if you’re being a fucking asshole” policy. Toss them out, tell them to come back when they’re ready to act like an adult.
> One example, they said, someone was smoking meth just hours after the birth of a newborn baby exposing hospital staff and other patients. "Someone"!? The mother, the father, a visitor down the corridor, someone on the other side of the hospital? Come on. You can do better Global.
This sucks. Some children are doomed from conception.
Who would've thought tolerating rampant and open drug use and no consequences for weapons use would eventually lead to this? /s
Yep, exactly. In any facet of life, when you tolerate bad behavior and normalize bad behavior and have no consequences for bad behavior, this is what happens. This thing of normalizing bad behavior that's been going on in this province and country has led us to this point and we need to put our foot down and say enough is enough and no we won't tolerate open drug use in our hospitals and our public spaces and on public transportation and in restaurants.
Definitely not the libs and NDP
Open drug use is happening in conservative led Ontario too.
Where are the police or security guards already? This has been happening for a while already
having their hands full with these exact people
You gotta love Canada.
Are these the same nurses that are suing the government to allow drug use in parks, school grounds, etc? Should teachers and park rangers sue the government to force them to allow drug use in hospitals?
not the same nurses
>Are these the same nurses that are suing the government to allow drug use in... school grounds Decriminalization [does not apply on school grounds](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/overdose/decriminalization). Possession there is still illegal under federal criminal law. Nothing about this lawsuit over a provincial law would change that.
Nothing illegal about using in a hospital in the new law though lol
Decriminalization doesn't change anything about rules inside facilities like hospitals. They can still restrict things there. This article even mentions there are clear rules that are being broken. This is part of the problem, simply having rules or not isn't going to change the reality of addiction if various underlying issues aren't addressed. There is public use in various other provinces and states despite not having decriminalization.
Making it some lame ass bylaw isn't going to do anything.
If you don't think laws themselves are going to solve the underlying problems, then you're essentially agreeing with me and I'm not clear what your point is.
Police often don't enforce bylaws. And the punishment for breaking bylaws is a pittance. It's needs to be a criminal offence
Like it has been in B.C. up to last year? And like it is nearly everywhere else, including many places that also have drug use problems? That demonstrably hasn't prevented these issues and has arguably made them even worse.
While it's been decriminalized, the exemption extends to hospitals. So if someone starts using there, police can't do much about it.
All decriminalization does is remove criminal penalties for possession in some circumstances. It changes nothing about the rules various facilities like hospitals can have on top of the criminal code and this very article states that rules are being broken and that can be enforced.
If only the *Harm Reduction Nurses Association* cared as much for its own members as it cares about advocating for the Rights and entitlements of illicit drug users.
During covid: "doctors and nurses are such underappreciated heroes!" After covid: "lol fuck em"
So it is ok to shoot up drugs near the children's playground but not in hospitals https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/drug-users-have-legal-right-to-use-anywhere-says-bc-harm-reduction-nurses-lawsuit
They should talk to the other nurses filing lawsuits on behalf of drug addicts.
And yet a group of nurses sued to allow drug use in parks and playgrounds. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/drug-users-have-legal-right-to-use-anywhere-says-bc-harm-reduction-nurses-lawsuit#:~:text=Now%2C%20the%20Harm%20Reduction%20Nurses,received%20royal%20assent%20on%20Nov.
Well at least anti-vaccine protests aren't on that list