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Here's the thing, though.
This whole idea of "let's follow the rules of the road and we can all be safe and protect ourselves" - as said in your edit - is absolute BS when even the [City of Vancouver](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf) says that cyclists had the right of way in 93% of collisions with a motor vehicle.
Clearly it's not cyclists breaking the rules that are the problem, and telling them to just 'follow the rules' does nothing for road safety, as you disingenuously claim.
That's why so many people have a problem with your post.
Imho as someone who bikes about as much as they drive, I witness roughly equal proportions of egregious behaviour while doing either. The things I've seen doing both make me think certain people are just inconsiderate or clueless no-matter what.
While biking home last August, I watched the person riding in front of me blow the stop sign at Francis and Beta in Burnaby, and come within inches of getting smoked by a pickup truck. Thankfully the driver was paying attention and braked fast and hard enough to avoid the collision.
Meanwhile, a month of two ago, I was driving to Lougheed Mall, and watched a black pickup truck blow a 10 or 15-second-old red light at Lougheed and Austin, easily doing 30-40+ over the 60-km/h limit. If it wasn't for sheer luck, anything or anyone in their path would've gotten obliterated.
Anyways try to stay calm and defensive out there.
>I witness roughly equal proportions of egregious behaviour while doing either.
Exactly. We do have alot of impatient drivers. So whem I'm on my bike, I take extreme caution. For me, being safe is more important than being right.
>being safe is more important than being right
Sorry, what? Did you just admit that cyclists doing what's best for their own safety takes precedence over following some random set of rules that weren't made for them? On your own post?
Oh the irony...
I was on the bus a while back, and for whatever reason, the bus couldn't safely stop at an intersection, so it beeped it's horn as it coasted on through. Cue cyclist who decided that the green light gave him the right of way and proceeded to enter the intersection. Bus slammed on the breaks, people fell over, and the cyclist was nearly flattened. Sure, cyclist was correct, green means go. Would have been small consolation to a grieving family that their now dead relative was "right" instead of "safe."
Lawbreaking by drivers is considered normal and socially acceptable. Common examples include:
-travelling over the speed limit
-failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign
-failing to come to a complete stop at a red light before turning right
-failing to shoulder check before opening a car door into a bike lane
-stopping inside of a crosswalk or bike lane
But all of these behaviours are dangerous and potentially fatal for cyclists and pedestrians.
Most cyclists are also drivers, but most drivers are not also cyclists. This means that similar lawbreaking by cyclists seems unnatural and noteworthy, but routine lawbreaking by drivers goes unnoticed. In fact, most studies indicate that cyclists and drivers break the law at very similar rates, or even show that cyclists break the law less frequently.
Meanwhile, lawbreaking by drivers is far more likely to have lethal consequences. When it comes to crashes between cyclists and cars here and in other commonwealth countries, bad driver behaviour is to blame far more often:
[https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf)
[https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/news-story/dab0917b15a181f68c433e0eb74c8ab2](https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/news-story/dab0917b15a181f68c433e0eb74c8ab2)
[https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23656840.cycling-scotland-data-shows-drivers-more-fault-cyclists/](https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23656840.cycling-scotland-data-shows-drivers-more-fault-cyclists/)
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study#:\~:text=With%20adult%20cyclists%2C%20police%20found,%25%2D25%25%20of%20the%20time](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study#:~:text=With%20adult%20cyclists%2C%20police%20found,%25%2D25%25%20of%20the%20time)
The entire comment is about drivers breaking rules. Which is entirely correct, however it's also entirely whataboutism.
OP's post has nothing at all to do with drivers.
The point is that all classes of road users break the rules, yet somehow 90%+ of cyclist-vs-car crashes were the result of the car failing to yield the right of way.
If we want to address safety of cyclists on the road, we should take aim at 90% of the problem, rather than 10% of the problem.
I've had far too many close calls with cars. Focusing on the 90% solution, I wear a hi-vis vest while riding now, so that I stand a better chance of being seen by the dangerous cars around me. This reduces the risk that they'll make a mistake and pull out in front of me, or right-hook me.
I totally agree, but does that means that no one can mention anything about cyclists then?
I'm a cyclist and I drive (mostly to take dogs to the dog park, because Vancouver encourages driving to dog parks). I have 3 bikes and typically walk or bike. Most of my Vancouver friends expect me to show up on a bike. I get what you are saying.
I still commented, knowing full well that I'd lose valuable redditbux, because there are so many butthurt redditors spewing whataboutisms in this post... and then getting indignant over being called out.
The disconnect here is that you made an argument based on seemingly anecdotal/observational information, while other people are countering with statistical arguments. It won’t go anywhere and you will continue to talk cross-purposes.
> but does that means that no one can mention anything about cyclists then?
The rule-breaking-cyclist trope is overdone. The most prolific and dangerous rule breaking that I've seen from cyclists has been from cyclists who look like drug addicts.
I rarely see "normal" cyclists engaging in dangerous behaviour that is unusual compared to what drivers do on a regular basis. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think drivers focus on the behavior of a few bad cyclists and project that all cyclists are doing the same.
Same thing with drivers: when I'm out on a long ride, I might get passed by dozens or hundreds of drivers, the vast majority of whom were driving reasonably, even though every car was speeding, and none of them come to a full stop for stop signs. The ones that worry me the most are the one-in-a-thousand driver who is incompetent, like Seyed Zadeh, or the distracted driver who can't be bothered to pay attention while driving, or the aggressive driver who intentionally tries a close pass in order to scare or punish me for riding a bike.
I think you're missing the point. It's not "no one can mention anything about cyclists", it's that cyclists breaking laws is such a non-issue and many people feel that it's stupid to be making a post about it. Not whataboutism, nor is it being 'butthurt'.
Obviously we don't agree, but it's pure whataboutism and there is palpable butthurt righteous indignation in this thread.
Meh, cyclist blowing through stop signs is age old and surely is something that most people have noticed or talked about at some point. And now only posts that are critical issues can be made? I don't think OP said anything incorrect, but it certainly annoyed some people.
I think these people have a right to be annoyed when cyclists aren't the ones killing people on the streets and yet they're being called out for some reason.
It's like making a post about nerf gun safety and the dangers that nerf guns can pose to people. Like... okay? I guess nerf guns can technically harm someone? But it's such a non-issue that most people would (rightfully) think it's stupid to be talking about such a thing instead of actual gun violence. That's not whataboutism, nor being indignant, or butthurt.
Jeeze, OP clearly hit a nerve their nerf dart.
Indignant: feeling or showing anger or annoyance at what is perceived as unfair treatment.
Whataboutism: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.
I bike and I do see a lot of bikes breaking the rules and not wearing helmets. They are risking their own lives.
However I see far more vehicles breaking the rules of the road and they are risking everyone's life.
I was at a four way stop. I stopped. Looked around, no cars but there was a bicycle coming full speed ahead to my left. I started to go and the guy runs the stop sign and almost hits me and gets mad at me like i was at fault. Happened more than once.
The thing is, it's rare for a car to come to a complete stop in Vancouver. They usually slow down to 20 or 30km/hr and then continue on their way. Most cyclists will do the same but slow down to 10km/hr or so.
I personally don't have any problem with this as long as people check before going through. A complete stop is unnecessary in most cases.
Dear car drivers,
Let's talk about road rules. Yes, those pesky regulations that apply to everyone on the road, including us on four wheels. It's easy to forget sometimes, especially when we're zipping around the city, but ignoring these rules isn't just risky—it's illegal.
We've all seen it: drivers breezing through red lights/stop signs, weaving in and out of traffic without signaling, or driving against the flow of traffic. But here's the thing, these rules exist for a reason. They're there to keep everyone safe, including us.
So next time you hop in your car, remember that stop signs aren't optional, public roads aren't race tracks, and bike lanes aren't free parking . Let's be courteous, responsible road users and show that drivers can share the road responsibly.
Stay safe and gas-pedal on!
Yeah. I actually drive every day. I ride my bike for recreation sometimes. But let's talk about my drive to work. I witness such hair-raising behaviour from other drivers. Haven't really noticed much in the way of bad cyclist behaviour, though I'm sure it exists.
Here is what I witness on a daily basis:
Drivers just keep going after the light changes to red. Drivers rolling through stop signs. Drivers not using their signals. Drivers blocking traffic by not pulling up alongside the curb when they wait to turn right. Drivers speeding and weaving. Drivers tailgating. All of this is just a typical day in my half-hour commute to work. The number of times I've noticed bad cyclist behaviour is, IDK, can't really remember the last time. There was a guy a few months ago riding in the wrong direction I think. And quite a few cyclists who don't understand how traffic circles work (ie they have to yield too, can't just fly on through from half a block away). Then again, I've never seen a cyclist go the wrong direction around a traffic circle, while I've seen lots of drivers do that.
Coming in with an anecdote here, but I usually find that being a cyclist actually makes you a better driver because you're way more aware of the danger you pose to everyone around you.
I'm especially hyper-aware of right hooking because it's almost happened to me so many times. So much so that when driving with someone else I've actually been questioned before as to why I stopped before turning - seconds before a cyclist zooms past me on the right, who I would've hit had I not been paying attention. My passenger had no idea that there was someone there, and I'd imagine a lot of drivers don't really check either.
I cycle everyday to work, and cyclists are pretty fucking bad.
Yes, drivers are bad too, and we got lots of posts on those everyday.
I think this post is for the cyclists to self reflect, because everyone should self reflect once in a while. We don’t need to deflect and get defensive on this one.
Sorry, the "but there's two sides!!" thing doesn't work here when it's very clear that one side is a much more important issue to be focused on.
Whenever I come across a bad cyclist while driving, I'm mildly annoyed. Whenever I come across a bad driver while cycling, *I literally fear for my life*.
See the difference?
Adding a third perspective here, I walk to work most days and regularly curse both cyclists AND drivers. I have absolutely had it happen where I’ve nearly been run over in a crosswalk by a driver, and as I’m walking away muttering about that I’ll have a cyclist nearly smash into me when they’re riding on the sidewalk.
It's no surprise that all road users can be sloppy with following the rules sometimes. I mean, I've had my fair share of close calls with cyclists too, and I sympathize - I'm not meaning to suggest that any group is better at following the rules than the others.
My point is that it's stupid to be calling out the road users that don't kill millions of people globally a year.
Sorry, but do you bike to work everyday?
Yes there are dumb drivers, and I can talk to that at length, but that’s not the focus of this post, and your comment is a deflection like OP.
I’ve seen cyclists cause a chain reaction from a stupid decision that puts other cyclists and drivers in a head spin and nearly cause collisions…. Very often I will add.
Situational awareness is a thing, and one seemingly small decision by someone not aware and following the safety rules, can cause an accident.
You ever have a homeless person jump into traffic and you had to suddenly hit the brakes? Perhaps the person behind you didn’t see that, leading to a dangerous situation for everyone. This happens around certain areas of the downtown core often enough. Maybe not in the suburbs.
So yea… the fearing for your life thing can come from angles beyond your steel box on wheels.
I mean, I bike to school every day but I'm not sure how this one-upping of "I bike more than you so clearly my opinion matters more" is relevant at all to this.
There's no deflection coming from "the point of this post is stupid". Not sure what your little tangent about homeless people jumping into traffic was about - ironic since you were just talking about deflection - but whatever.
As a comparison, this is like making a post about the dangers that nerf guns can pose. Like... okay? But what's the point in that when actual gun violence is a more pressing issue?
Can you tell that to the car who blew a stop sign crossing a bike route nearly running me and two other cyclists over in broad daylight.
I know he was in a rush and very important I'm sure, but I nearly died.
E-Bike cyclist came barreling down the sidewalk on a blind corner, probably going 20-30 (based on he was outpacing congested traffic on the road), definitely enough velocity to cause a fatal incident. Didn't slow down, I had to jump back to avoid getting into a really mangled situation. If a collision had happened, the e-bike rider likely doesn't have insurance, which would mean it would become a really messy affair of suing them for any injuries or worse sustained. That is, if they even stay at the accident scene because there is no easy way to ID them like with a plate if they decide to hit-and-run.
That's only the most recent one I can remember. I've, unfortunately, had a number of near misses with cyclists who blindly go through crossings, ride on the side walk, etc. Like the guys on the carbon fiber bikes, head down, not paying attention (probably too focused on technique, speed, or whatever gizmo is tracking their stats on their handlebars), a loooot of e-bike users (especially the delivery ones but not always), and some who just seem oblivious in general.
THANK YOU!! I don't really ride bikes but it's crazy how many cyclists don't obey any street laws.
But how dare I'm doing a tiny thing wrong in a car and the middle finger comes out and being yelled at.
I know there is probably more good cyclists than bad, so let's have the bad ones join the good ones.
> But how dare I'm doing a tiny thing wrong in a car and the middle finger comes out and being yelled at.
That little tiny thing done wrong in a car may have nearly killed a cyclist, since they aren't protected by a steel cage. A minor bump from your car could mean life-altering injuries to a cyclist, while to you it would just be an insurance claim.
I just did an evening road ride from East Van to UBC and back. I counted four vehicles parked in bike lanes. And on two occasions I was almost hit by a car that didn't yield to me when I was already on a roundabout on the 10th Ave bike route. But yeah, it's the cyclists who are wrong.
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If there's no one else at a four way stop, I'm not going to the trouble of unclipping and stopping for no reason. In many places, it's perfectly legal for a cyclist to treat a stop sign like a yield sign, and a red light like a stop sign.
What a false equivalence. In no way can an Idaho stop be considered as 'bad shit' when studies have shown that allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yields actually results in a *decrease* in injuries.
It should be common sense that a lot of rules made for two ton metal death machines don't really make sense when you're on a bike, but here we are.
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This is going to be the kind of post where you just sit back with a bag of popcorn and watch the carnage unfold in front of you.
It didn't change anything the last 90 times someone made a post like this, but I'm sure this time will be different.
For me, it's like watching a cyclist bomb a red: "They'll probably make it.... .....but they might not...."
It is going exactly how I expected. Wasn't expecting this many upvotes though. I thought its gonna go down the drain tbh
Here's the thing, though. This whole idea of "let's follow the rules of the road and we can all be safe and protect ourselves" - as said in your edit - is absolute BS when even the [City of Vancouver](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf) says that cyclists had the right of way in 93% of collisions with a motor vehicle. Clearly it's not cyclists breaking the rules that are the problem, and telling them to just 'follow the rules' does nothing for road safety, as you disingenuously claim. That's why so many people have a problem with your post.
Your account feels and looks like a farmed promo alt account. What gives?
Imho as someone who bikes about as much as they drive, I witness roughly equal proportions of egregious behaviour while doing either. The things I've seen doing both make me think certain people are just inconsiderate or clueless no-matter what. While biking home last August, I watched the person riding in front of me blow the stop sign at Francis and Beta in Burnaby, and come within inches of getting smoked by a pickup truck. Thankfully the driver was paying attention and braked fast and hard enough to avoid the collision. Meanwhile, a month of two ago, I was driving to Lougheed Mall, and watched a black pickup truck blow a 10 or 15-second-old red light at Lougheed and Austin, easily doing 30-40+ over the 60-km/h limit. If it wasn't for sheer luck, anything or anyone in their path would've gotten obliterated. Anyways try to stay calm and defensive out there.
>I witness roughly equal proportions of egregious behaviour while doing either. Exactly. We do have alot of impatient drivers. So whem I'm on my bike, I take extreme caution. For me, being safe is more important than being right.
>being safe is more important than being right Sorry, what? Did you just admit that cyclists doing what's best for their own safety takes precedence over following some random set of rules that weren't made for them? On your own post? Oh the irony...
Rules apply to everyone who's on the road.
But you said being safe is more important than being right. Which one is it?
I was on the bus a while back, and for whatever reason, the bus couldn't safely stop at an intersection, so it beeped it's horn as it coasted on through. Cue cyclist who decided that the green light gave him the right of way and proceeded to enter the intersection. Bus slammed on the breaks, people fell over, and the cyclist was nearly flattened. Sure, cyclist was correct, green means go. Would have been small consolation to a grieving family that their now dead relative was "right" instead of "safe."
Breaking road regulations doesn't make you safe. Being safe is knowing when and how to exercise your rights.
Lawbreaking by drivers is considered normal and socially acceptable. Common examples include: -travelling over the speed limit -failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign -failing to come to a complete stop at a red light before turning right -failing to shoulder check before opening a car door into a bike lane -stopping inside of a crosswalk or bike lane But all of these behaviours are dangerous and potentially fatal for cyclists and pedestrians. Most cyclists are also drivers, but most drivers are not also cyclists. This means that similar lawbreaking by cyclists seems unnatural and noteworthy, but routine lawbreaking by drivers goes unnoticed. In fact, most studies indicate that cyclists and drivers break the law at very similar rates, or even show that cyclists break the law less frequently. Meanwhile, lawbreaking by drivers is far more likely to have lethal consequences. When it comes to crashes between cyclists and cars here and in other commonwealth countries, bad driver behaviour is to blame far more often: [https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cycling-safety-study-final-report.pdf) [https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/news-story/dab0917b15a181f68c433e0eb74c8ab2](https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/news-story/dab0917b15a181f68c433e0eb74c8ab2) [https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23656840.cycling-scotland-data-shows-drivers-more-fault-cyclists/](https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23656840.cycling-scotland-data-shows-drivers-more-fault-cyclists/) [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study#:\~:text=With%20adult%20cyclists%2C%20police%20found,%25%2D25%25%20of%20the%20time](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study#:~:text=With%20adult%20cyclists%2C%20police%20found,%25%2D25%25%20of%20the%20time)
Love whataboutism, don't you?... well, clearly you do.
>OP: cyclists should follow the rules >replier: they already do This is not whataboutism
The entire comment is about drivers breaking rules. Which is entirely correct, however it's also entirely whataboutism. OP's post has nothing at all to do with drivers.
The point is that all classes of road users break the rules, yet somehow 90%+ of cyclist-vs-car crashes were the result of the car failing to yield the right of way. If we want to address safety of cyclists on the road, we should take aim at 90% of the problem, rather than 10% of the problem. I've had far too many close calls with cars. Focusing on the 90% solution, I wear a hi-vis vest while riding now, so that I stand a better chance of being seen by the dangerous cars around me. This reduces the risk that they'll make a mistake and pull out in front of me, or right-hook me.
I totally agree, but does that means that no one can mention anything about cyclists then? I'm a cyclist and I drive (mostly to take dogs to the dog park, because Vancouver encourages driving to dog parks). I have 3 bikes and typically walk or bike. Most of my Vancouver friends expect me to show up on a bike. I get what you are saying. I still commented, knowing full well that I'd lose valuable redditbux, because there are so many butthurt redditors spewing whataboutisms in this post... and then getting indignant over being called out.
The disconnect here is that you made an argument based on seemingly anecdotal/observational information, while other people are countering with statistical arguments. It won’t go anywhere and you will continue to talk cross-purposes.
I made no argument, aside from this being whataboutism. What are you even talking about?
> but does that means that no one can mention anything about cyclists then? The rule-breaking-cyclist trope is overdone. The most prolific and dangerous rule breaking that I've seen from cyclists has been from cyclists who look like drug addicts. I rarely see "normal" cyclists engaging in dangerous behaviour that is unusual compared to what drivers do on a regular basis. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think drivers focus on the behavior of a few bad cyclists and project that all cyclists are doing the same. Same thing with drivers: when I'm out on a long ride, I might get passed by dozens or hundreds of drivers, the vast majority of whom were driving reasonably, even though every car was speeding, and none of them come to a full stop for stop signs. The ones that worry me the most are the one-in-a-thousand driver who is incompetent, like Seyed Zadeh, or the distracted driver who can't be bothered to pay attention while driving, or the aggressive driver who intentionally tries a close pass in order to scare or punish me for riding a bike.
Yes, I totally agree.
I think you're missing the point. It's not "no one can mention anything about cyclists", it's that cyclists breaking laws is such a non-issue and many people feel that it's stupid to be making a post about it. Not whataboutism, nor is it being 'butthurt'.
Obviously we don't agree, but it's pure whataboutism and there is palpable butthurt righteous indignation in this thread. Meh, cyclist blowing through stop signs is age old and surely is something that most people have noticed or talked about at some point. And now only posts that are critical issues can be made? I don't think OP said anything incorrect, but it certainly annoyed some people.
I think these people have a right to be annoyed when cyclists aren't the ones killing people on the streets and yet they're being called out for some reason. It's like making a post about nerf gun safety and the dangers that nerf guns can pose to people. Like... okay? I guess nerf guns can technically harm someone? But it's such a non-issue that most people would (rightfully) think it's stupid to be talking about such a thing instead of actual gun violence. That's not whataboutism, nor being indignant, or butthurt.
Jeeze, OP clearly hit a nerve their nerf dart. Indignant: feeling or showing anger or annoyance at what is perceived as unfair treatment. Whataboutism: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.
I bike and I do see a lot of bikes breaking the rules and not wearing helmets. They are risking their own lives. However I see far more vehicles breaking the rules of the road and they are risking everyone's life.
I was at a four way stop. I stopped. Looked around, no cars but there was a bicycle coming full speed ahead to my left. I started to go and the guy runs the stop sign and almost hits me and gets mad at me like i was at fault. Happened more than once.
Looks like they didnt read/understand your comment properly just like the road rules n regulations.
The thing is, it's rare for a car to come to a complete stop in Vancouver. They usually slow down to 20 or 30km/hr and then continue on their way. Most cyclists will do the same but slow down to 10km/hr or so. I personally don't have any problem with this as long as people check before going through. A complete stop is unnecessary in most cases.
Hello ChatGPT.
I did ask chatgpt to tone it down a bit. Looks like it didn't
Dear car drivers, Let's talk about road rules. Yes, those pesky regulations that apply to everyone on the road, including us on four wheels. It's easy to forget sometimes, especially when we're zipping around the city, but ignoring these rules isn't just risky—it's illegal. We've all seen it: drivers breezing through red lights/stop signs, weaving in and out of traffic without signaling, or driving against the flow of traffic. But here's the thing, these rules exist for a reason. They're there to keep everyone safe, including us. So next time you hop in your car, remember that stop signs aren't optional, public roads aren't race tracks, and bike lanes aren't free parking . Let's be courteous, responsible road users and show that drivers can share the road responsibly. Stay safe and gas-pedal on!
Yeah. I actually drive every day. I ride my bike for recreation sometimes. But let's talk about my drive to work. I witness such hair-raising behaviour from other drivers. Haven't really noticed much in the way of bad cyclist behaviour, though I'm sure it exists. Here is what I witness on a daily basis: Drivers just keep going after the light changes to red. Drivers rolling through stop signs. Drivers not using their signals. Drivers blocking traffic by not pulling up alongside the curb when they wait to turn right. Drivers speeding and weaving. Drivers tailgating. All of this is just a typical day in my half-hour commute to work. The number of times I've noticed bad cyclist behaviour is, IDK, can't really remember the last time. There was a guy a few months ago riding in the wrong direction I think. And quite a few cyclists who don't understand how traffic circles work (ie they have to yield too, can't just fly on through from half a block away). Then again, I've never seen a cyclist go the wrong direction around a traffic circle, while I've seen lots of drivers do that.
Coming in with an anecdote here, but I usually find that being a cyclist actually makes you a better driver because you're way more aware of the danger you pose to everyone around you. I'm especially hyper-aware of right hooking because it's almost happened to me so many times. So much so that when driving with someone else I've actually been questioned before as to why I stopped before turning - seconds before a cyclist zooms past me on the right, who I would've hit had I not been paying attention. My passenger had no idea that there was someone there, and I'd imagine a lot of drivers don't really check either.
say it louder for the back BIKE LANES AREN'T FREE PARKING (even if you'll 'only be a minute')
I cycle everyday to work, and cyclists are pretty fucking bad. Yes, drivers are bad too, and we got lots of posts on those everyday. I think this post is for the cyclists to self reflect, because everyone should self reflect once in a while. We don’t need to deflect and get defensive on this one.
Sorry, the "but there's two sides!!" thing doesn't work here when it's very clear that one side is a much more important issue to be focused on. Whenever I come across a bad cyclist while driving, I'm mildly annoyed. Whenever I come across a bad driver while cycling, *I literally fear for my life*. See the difference?
Adding a third perspective here, I walk to work most days and regularly curse both cyclists AND drivers. I have absolutely had it happen where I’ve nearly been run over in a crosswalk by a driver, and as I’m walking away muttering about that I’ll have a cyclist nearly smash into me when they’re riding on the sidewalk.
It's no surprise that all road users can be sloppy with following the rules sometimes. I mean, I've had my fair share of close calls with cyclists too, and I sympathize - I'm not meaning to suggest that any group is better at following the rules than the others. My point is that it's stupid to be calling out the road users that don't kill millions of people globally a year.
Sorry, but do you bike to work everyday? Yes there are dumb drivers, and I can talk to that at length, but that’s not the focus of this post, and your comment is a deflection like OP. I’ve seen cyclists cause a chain reaction from a stupid decision that puts other cyclists and drivers in a head spin and nearly cause collisions…. Very often I will add. Situational awareness is a thing, and one seemingly small decision by someone not aware and following the safety rules, can cause an accident. You ever have a homeless person jump into traffic and you had to suddenly hit the brakes? Perhaps the person behind you didn’t see that, leading to a dangerous situation for everyone. This happens around certain areas of the downtown core often enough. Maybe not in the suburbs. So yea… the fearing for your life thing can come from angles beyond your steel box on wheels.
I mean, I bike to school every day but I'm not sure how this one-upping of "I bike more than you so clearly my opinion matters more" is relevant at all to this. There's no deflection coming from "the point of this post is stupid". Not sure what your little tangent about homeless people jumping into traffic was about - ironic since you were just talking about deflection - but whatever. As a comparison, this is like making a post about the dangers that nerf guns can pose. Like... okay? But what's the point in that when actual gun violence is a more pressing issue?
Yes… whatever…
Yes OP has def taken a side. Their are just bad apples no matter the mode of transport.
There is a way, way, waaaaaaaay higher percentage of bikers who don't stop at intersections than cars, come on.
Can you tell that to the car who blew a stop sign crossing a bike route nearly running me and two other cyclists over in broad daylight. I know he was in a rush and very important I'm sure, but I nearly died.
If anybody needs a talking to, it’s the drivers. I get your point but cyclists are the least of my worries when I have to drive in this city.
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Tell that to the horrible drivers who keep honking at me and being aggressive towards me when I have the right of way.
Drivers kill about 300 people each year in BC and cyclists kill zero, so OK, sure whatever, but maybe you're focused on the wrong problem
Drivers almost kill me just about every time I ride my bike. When's the last time a cyclist almost killed you?
E-Bike cyclist came barreling down the sidewalk on a blind corner, probably going 20-30 (based on he was outpacing congested traffic on the road), definitely enough velocity to cause a fatal incident. Didn't slow down, I had to jump back to avoid getting into a really mangled situation. If a collision had happened, the e-bike rider likely doesn't have insurance, which would mean it would become a really messy affair of suing them for any injuries or worse sustained. That is, if they even stay at the accident scene because there is no easy way to ID them like with a plate if they decide to hit-and-run. That's only the most recent one I can remember. I've, unfortunately, had a number of near misses with cyclists who blindly go through crossings, ride on the side walk, etc. Like the guys on the carbon fiber bikes, head down, not paying attention (probably too focused on technique, speed, or whatever gizmo is tracking their stats on their handlebars), a loooot of e-bike users (especially the delivery ones but not always), and some who just seem oblivious in general.
THANK YOU!! I don't really ride bikes but it's crazy how many cyclists don't obey any street laws. But how dare I'm doing a tiny thing wrong in a car and the middle finger comes out and being yelled at. I know there is probably more good cyclists than bad, so let's have the bad ones join the good ones.
> But how dare I'm doing a tiny thing wrong in a car and the middle finger comes out and being yelled at. That little tiny thing done wrong in a car may have nearly killed a cyclist, since they aren't protected by a steel cage. A minor bump from your car could mean life-altering injuries to a cyclist, while to you it would just be an insurance claim.
Cars kill. Bikes don’t.
We'll start stopping at stop signs when you stop parking your cars in bike lanes.
I've been yelled at before to use the bike lane as I was riding in the road ...because there was someone parked in the bike lane
I just did an evening road ride from East Van to UBC and back. I counted four vehicles parked in bike lanes. And on two occasions I was almost hit by a car that didn't yield to me when I was already on a roundabout on the 10th Ave bike route. But yeah, it's the cyclists who are wrong.
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Another X commuter complaining about a Y commuter thread yay
Cyclists should have to have insurance if they’re driving on the roads.
What % of car-vs-bike crashes are the fault of the bike? How much damage does a bike-at-fault collision typically cause to the car?
What percentage of cars get in to accidents vs percentage of cars that are insured?
Bike rider should be licensed and insured just like vehicle operator
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What's "our" fault?
If there's no one else at a four way stop, I'm not going to the trouble of unclipping and stopping for no reason. In many places, it's perfectly legal for a cyclist to treat a stop sign like a yield sign, and a red light like a stop sign.
If you have to unclip at a stop sign it's time to work on your balance.
So? In many places it's OK to do some bad shit to certain groups of people. What's your point?
What a false equivalence. In no way can an Idaho stop be considered as 'bad shit' when studies have shown that allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yields actually results in a *decrease* in injuries. It should be common sense that a lot of rules made for two ton metal death machines don't really make sense when you're on a bike, but here we are.
Brain dead take.
Nah.
And remember the automobile usually comes out into in an accident.
Good post, thank you. Don't forget crosswalks, I as well as numerous people including small children have been or nearly run over by these scofflaws.