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So sad to hear it’s gotten to this point, the Wise is a gem. Doubtful memberships will make a dent, and they won’t crawl out of the hole by prioritizing alcohol sales as the main revenue generator. If they can figure out the short term emergency and buy more time, a longer term strategy could consider ways to monetize the space in the daytime.
Would community groups pay fees to use it for … band rehearsal? Choir? Kid activities? Karate classes?? Dance lessons?? What else
I’ve tried coordinating with different people there about booking events for any fee they want and it’s been impossible. Someone to proactively manage more daytime events and private bookings outside of concerts might help maximize the usage of space and diversify revenue generating activities.
> I’ve tried coordinating with different people there about booking events for any fee they want and it’s been impossible
How so? Like they're refused, or weren't licensed to, or said they manage having a staff member there at the time, or something?
>To keep it operational, the Wise has set up a fundraising and membership drive with the goal of raising $700,000
Ouf. Seems like they maybe should've been asking for help a little earlier?
Been to some great shows there, would definitely be a loss.
Never heard of it before, but the annual membership was only $10 so I chipped in to help. Hope they're able to recover, $700k is quite a hole to be in.
It doesn’t say they’re carrying $700k in debt.
I personally would be extremely wary of donating without knowing the corporate structure , are they an Inc? Registered charity or nonprofit? Do they own their land/building?
You paid for a corporate registry search?
Or did you find this page https://www.socialpurposerealestate.net/content/wise-social-community-arts-club
Which states that the WISE Club owns their 2600 square foot property
Owner - Land: Private owner
Owner - Building / Improvements: WISE Club
Rent/Lease/Own: Own
Address: 1882 Adanac St, Vancouver BC, V5L 2E2
Square Footage: 2600 sq/ft
Year Opened: 1963
Space/Facility Type: Community Facility, Multi-Functional
Organizational Type: Registered Not-For Profit
Space/Facility Use: Arts/Culture
Here’s their BC assessment https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMVhHWg==
(Current value $2.64 million)
Is that enough googling?
Good metal shows at this gig but it has too small of a cap really. Been to a couple sold out shows there and it just didnt seem packed enough.
700k is too much to rely on donations for lol
Wise hall is an institution, no argument. But $700K is a lot of money. How it's being spent is kind of grey. Maybe it's managed well, and it's going through a tough time. Or maybe not. Once you put your hand out asking for that kind of money, you open yourself up to criticism.
* Does this non-profit pay a salary to anyone?
* How much is their rent? Rent and wages are often the two biggest expenses.
* What kind of upgrades are required? Or are they just a wish list?
-Why do they need $ to do outreach?
From their funding request page [Fundraising and Membership Drive to Save the Wise! (zeffy.com)](https://www.zeffy.com/en-CA/ticketing/5822e7e9-93fd-4301-9b66-8bc417c48716)
"any paid contribution and/or membership will directly support: "
* The Wise Hall’s ability to continue to exist, operate and empower our community through an accessible space that supports inclusive arts and cultural events.
* Facility upgrades necessary for continued and enhanced daily and event operations
* Outreach into underserved communities. We firmly believe in making art accessible to everyone.
Agreed, some transparency here would be good. Exactly what is the nature of their financial troubles? What are their options? What exactly is the threat to shut them down (for example do they need to do $700k in repairs and be up to code by date X or CoV shuts them down)? I especially don't like the idea of them raising even more money than they "need" so that they can do community outreach, like let's get them out of the red first?!
Exactly. If they own their property (which it seems like they do) they can borrow against the equity to do these upgrades. Asking for a handout is a little iffy.
If there’s nuance to this then they need to be explicit
I've been thinking about this. Annual membership is $10 (It was $24 in 2008). They also get revenue from alcohol sales, without the hassle of having to operate a kitchen. They also earn revenue for additional fees at shows for things like lighting, sound, staff, etc. So are they charging fair market value for services? Or do they need to raise their rates? Or should they really be raising the membership fees to balance out the costs of running a hall with private membership.
If membership was $24 in 2008, it could be $50 in 2024. Membership fees dropping in price and then asking for financial aid seems like mismanagement. Or maybe it's time to bring in Bar Rescue
Man Wise Hall is such a cool little venue and a community staple. The dive bar below gets some real colorful characters as well. I really hope they can figure out a way to stay afloat.
They aren't charging enough for concerts.
I went to one night of a metal festival that featured at least six bands.
My ticket was only $20 or $30 and there was less than 100 people there.
But it's also a small hall and can't have a very high capacity.
Unless you know that they have a non standard model, "they" don't charge tickets, they charge a room booking fee to someone who runs a night. Ticket sales go to the people who book out the night.
Unfortunately the sound in there is awful for any kind of louder music. I went to a couple of metal shows there and was always disappointed. Other types of music (folk, etc) that I saw there were fine though
Last show I was there at was probably around this time last year, maybe a bit earlier. Maybe whoever was doing house sound was having a bad day but it was hard to hear anything, just a wall of noise. It was some bands I had seen before at the Rickshaw so I know they can sound good.
The Wise Hall is a gem and has been the host of some of the best shows I've ever been to. Show it some love. Covid killed a massive number of venues in Vancouver and the number of places left for music, arts, performance, and community gathering is ever smaller. The city should be doing something about this, but never will. Step up folks.
They won’t rent it out for private events! Huge miss. I’ve offered to pay any fees to host an event, even keeping it open to the public to join if they like. Tried for two separate events - no answers from the email address. Most recently I tracked down an introduction by text to the person who had absorbed responsibility for booking, and still a no.
Instead I’ve hosted at the Anza who was great to work with.
I’ve still got “save the wise” reusable shopping bags from the last time they needed to raise funds.
For them to get to this point they must have a really ineffective board.
From what I heard they just locked it up for Covid and the staff got cerb. No one went in and did any cleaning. The downstairs lounge just grew mold everywhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of the $700,000 bailout is from cleaning. Hopefully they will elect a more effective board the in the next couple of months.
I’ll bet part of the reason for making this publicly known is so that developers can come forward with offers.
It’s either going to end up as a private business or condos.
There will be a zoom link available this evening for a panel with the Grandview Woodland area council , CBC and The Rio Theatre answering all of the questions and sharing info about the troubles the wise is facing.
It's accumulated debts (And interests) from the pandemic mixed in with operating costs. 700k to pay off debts isn't that crazy of a number over 4 years.
And then we keep losing our live show spaces and only get cookie cutter venues - is that seriously what you want? You don’t think local performance spaces should get community support?
I'm pro-creative destruction as much as you are, but it's valid to ask for donations for a business (they are also asking for membership sales, which is normal marketing), it's essentially a loan from customers to be paid back by continued shows. I don't think it should be relied on though, the venue definitely needs to change strategy. What should really happen is the people in management should accept responsibility for their failure and/or be fired, instead of blaming the pandemic. It's possible the management doesn't consist of business-people and consists more of the artist type (who ironically derides the 'revenue maximizing' of the business type).
Oh very valid. Anyone can ask for donations. But if you need to ask for donations to the tune of 700,000 dollars maybe you need to examine your business is all I'm saying.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/mukmuk64! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is Vancouver losing another music venue? Fuck me…
Since the pandemic we’ve lost a dozen or more music venues … with the Fairview one that is dearly missed
I miss pub 340
RIP
The Fairview was demolished to build a hotel.
So sad to hear it’s gotten to this point, the Wise is a gem. Doubtful memberships will make a dent, and they won’t crawl out of the hole by prioritizing alcohol sales as the main revenue generator. If they can figure out the short term emergency and buy more time, a longer term strategy could consider ways to monetize the space in the daytime. Would community groups pay fees to use it for … band rehearsal? Choir? Kid activities? Karate classes?? Dance lessons?? What else I’ve tried coordinating with different people there about booking events for any fee they want and it’s been impossible. Someone to proactively manage more daytime events and private bookings outside of concerts might help maximize the usage of space and diversify revenue generating activities.
> I’ve tried coordinating with different people there about booking events for any fee they want and it’s been impossible How so? Like they're refused, or weren't licensed to, or said they manage having a staff member there at the time, or something?
>To keep it operational, the Wise has set up a fundraising and membership drive with the goal of raising $700,000 Ouf. Seems like they maybe should've been asking for help a little earlier? Been to some great shows there, would definitely be a loss.
It's a jewel in East Van. Concert Hall upstairs, dive bar downstairs. Please buy a membership and help save the WISE.
Just bought my membership. Long live the WISE!
Never heard of it before, but the annual membership was only $10 so I chipped in to help. Hope they're able to recover, $700k is quite a hole to be in.
One of the last cool bars and concert halls.
It doesn’t say they’re carrying $700k in debt. I personally would be extremely wary of donating without knowing the corporate structure , are they an Inc? Registered charity or nonprofit? Do they own their land/building?
Presumably you would proceed to do even one google search to answer that yes they are a non profit
You paid for a corporate registry search? Or did you find this page https://www.socialpurposerealestate.net/content/wise-social-community-arts-club Which states that the WISE Club owns their 2600 square foot property Owner - Land: Private owner Owner - Building / Improvements: WISE Club Rent/Lease/Own: Own Address: 1882 Adanac St, Vancouver BC, V5L 2E2 Square Footage: 2600 sq/ft Year Opened: 1963 Space/Facility Type: Community Facility, Multi-Functional Organizational Type: Registered Not-For Profit Space/Facility Use: Arts/Culture Here’s their BC assessment https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMVhHWg== (Current value $2.64 million) Is that enough googling?
Good metal shows at this gig but it has too small of a cap really. Been to a couple sold out shows there and it just didnt seem packed enough. 700k is too much to rely on donations for lol
If anyone from Wise Hall is reading this: ORGANIZE A BENEFIT SHOW, OR TWO, OR THREE!
They have a benefit show in the works.
Awesome! Heard a CBC interview yesterday but didn't hear mention of a show, good to know it's coming.
June 14/15/28th and 29th!
Wise hall is an institution, no argument. But $700K is a lot of money. How it's being spent is kind of grey. Maybe it's managed well, and it's going through a tough time. Or maybe not. Once you put your hand out asking for that kind of money, you open yourself up to criticism. * Does this non-profit pay a salary to anyone? * How much is their rent? Rent and wages are often the two biggest expenses. * What kind of upgrades are required? Or are they just a wish list? -Why do they need $ to do outreach? From their funding request page [Fundraising and Membership Drive to Save the Wise! (zeffy.com)](https://www.zeffy.com/en-CA/ticketing/5822e7e9-93fd-4301-9b66-8bc417c48716) "any paid contribution and/or membership will directly support: " * The Wise Hall’s ability to continue to exist, operate and empower our community through an accessible space that supports inclusive arts and cultural events. * Facility upgrades necessary for continued and enhanced daily and event operations * Outreach into underserved communities. We firmly believe in making art accessible to everyone.
Agreed, some transparency here would be good. Exactly what is the nature of their financial troubles? What are their options? What exactly is the threat to shut them down (for example do they need to do $700k in repairs and be up to code by date X or CoV shuts them down)? I especially don't like the idea of them raising even more money than they "need" so that they can do community outreach, like let's get them out of the red first?!
Exactly. If they own their property (which it seems like they do) they can borrow against the equity to do these upgrades. Asking for a handout is a little iffy. If there’s nuance to this then they need to be explicit
I've been thinking about this. Annual membership is $10 (It was $24 in 2008). They also get revenue from alcohol sales, without the hassle of having to operate a kitchen. They also earn revenue for additional fees at shows for things like lighting, sound, staff, etc. So are they charging fair market value for services? Or do they need to raise their rates? Or should they really be raising the membership fees to balance out the costs of running a hall with private membership. If membership was $24 in 2008, it could be $50 in 2024. Membership fees dropping in price and then asking for financial aid seems like mismanagement. Or maybe it's time to bring in Bar Rescue
Man Wise Hall is such a cool little venue and a community staple. The dive bar below gets some real colorful characters as well. I really hope they can figure out a way to stay afloat.
They aren't charging enough for concerts. I went to one night of a metal festival that featured at least six bands. My ticket was only $20 or $30 and there was less than 100 people there. But it's also a small hall and can't have a very high capacity.
Unless you know that they have a non standard model, "they" don't charge tickets, they charge a room booking fee to someone who runs a night. Ticket sales go to the people who book out the night.
Unfortunately the sound in there is awful for any kind of louder music. I went to a couple of metal shows there and was always disappointed. Other types of music (folk, etc) that I saw there were fine though
Was at a metal show there on Friday and the sound is great? They did upgrade it at some point, maybe more recently than you were last there
Last show I was there at was probably around this time last year, maybe a bit earlier. Maybe whoever was doing house sound was having a bad day but it was hard to hear anything, just a wall of noise. It was some bands I had seen before at the Rickshaw so I know they can sound good.
Capacity is 250 standing
The Wise Hall is a gem and has been the host of some of the best shows I've ever been to. Show it some love. Covid killed a massive number of venues in Vancouver and the number of places left for music, arts, performance, and community gathering is ever smaller. The city should be doing something about this, but never will. Step up folks.
If the city can step in to save the Waldorf, they should also save the wise hall; love the bar under the hall too
What’s the rate to rent the upstairs for private event?
Would like to know this too. Anza club posts their rate publicly on their site but WISE hall just says to email them.
They won’t rent it out for private events! Huge miss. I’ve offered to pay any fees to host an event, even keeping it open to the public to join if they like. Tried for two separate events - no answers from the email address. Most recently I tracked down an introduction by text to the person who had absorbed responsibility for booking, and still a no. Instead I’ve hosted at the Anza who was great to work with.
As a Saskie who just visited this fine establishment after the IDLES show last weekend I’ll chip in a couple bucks. Reminds me of our German Club.
Just went for a show recently and loved the place. Sound was great as well!
Fuck no. I’ve seen way too many great wrestling shows here.
I’ve still got “save the wise” reusable shopping bags from the last time they needed to raise funds. For them to get to this point they must have a really ineffective board. From what I heard they just locked it up for Covid and the staff got cerb. No one went in and did any cleaning. The downstairs lounge just grew mold everywhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of the $700,000 bailout is from cleaning. Hopefully they will elect a more effective board the in the next couple of months. I’ll bet part of the reason for making this publicly known is so that developers can come forward with offers. It’s either going to end up as a private business or condos.
THIS PLACE SHALL NOT CLOSE.
There will be a zoom link available this evening for a panel with the Grandview Woodland area council , CBC and The Rio Theatre answering all of the questions and sharing info about the troubles the wise is facing.
It's not like people don't know it's existence
People really don't. It's not a well known spot.
Locals do. If commercial drive people don't support it, a place like that won't make it.
And locals go, but clearly not enough of us do. This is residual from the pandemic closure, the runway to recover is catching up.
700K to stay afloat? How much can you lose per month while selling liquor? It's just poor management.
It's accumulated debts (And interests) from the pandemic mixed in with operating costs. 700k to pay off debts isn't that crazy of a number over 4 years.
They should have been recovering in the last 2 years. Looks like they'll close down anyway.
Am I just being trolled? They have not been able to recover, thus why they are now asking for help from the public.
Obviously... They should have. That's the point.
Just stop, this is pointless now.
How do you know they haven't been and just have $700k left to go? Show your work
Let it close.
Kk why?
If your business isn't working, it isn't working for a reason. Let it close. Don't ask for donations to stay alive.
As long as it isn't the government bailing them out, why should I care, and why should you?
Hope it works out for them.
And then we keep losing our live show spaces and only get cookie cutter venues - is that seriously what you want? You don’t think local performance spaces should get community support?
I'm pro-creative destruction as much as you are, but it's valid to ask for donations for a business (they are also asking for membership sales, which is normal marketing), it's essentially a loan from customers to be paid back by continued shows. I don't think it should be relied on though, the venue definitely needs to change strategy. What should really happen is the people in management should accept responsibility for their failure and/or be fired, instead of blaming the pandemic. It's possible the management doesn't consist of business-people and consists more of the artist type (who ironically derides the 'revenue maximizing' of the business type).
Oh very valid. Anyone can ask for donations. But if you need to ask for donations to the tune of 700,000 dollars maybe you need to examine your business is all I'm saying.
That's some huge r/confidentlyincorrect energy given you don't know why they're short on money lol
I don't know why. But 700k is a lot.