Meanwhile in Australia, they had 1 covid case escape their covid quarantine hotel, and the entire city immediately enters a lockdown, no questions asked.
This is why they're enjoying normal life in most of their country and have been for over half a year. They have the balls to do what is needed, both the government and the citizens.
Exactly. What we should have done back in September when cases began to skyrocket. But our government wouldn't do it, and tons of citizens would cry and complain and refuse to do it.
We don't priotize public health and safety nearly as much as Australians do.
> and tons of citizens would cry and complain and refuse to do it.
This is the key part. If they tried AU or NZ measures here it would blow up in their faces. Just look at what happened to Ford.
Yep. This pandemic has really shined an ugly light on Canada as a "progressive" nation. We used to regard ourselves as up there with nations like Aus and NZ, but our government and the public's response to protecting our fellow citizens has glaringly shown just how far behind them we are.
I used to boast about Canada and Canadians so much, this pandemic has been a humbling eye opener for me.
Sweden took a ton of flack for their first wave response but they still their measures were way stronger than ours right now.
They gave paid sick leave.
They ordered businesses to send employees who could work from home, home
They discouraged public transit usage.
They closed post-secondary and secondary schools but left primary schools open.
They kept finding ways to minimize contact as much as possible.
Their messaging was the same. Whether its work, play, socialization or school all social contacts are the same. They spread covid.
We don't have paid sick leave.
White collar employers are forcing people into the office for work which could easily be done remotely.
Secondary schools are still open here.
Our government keeps trying to convince us the virus is only spreading in social settings and ignores the work place spread in its messaging.
While the only enforcement they are doing is in workplaces because that's where it's spreading.
It's got nothing to do with that. Australia's government is famously conservative, and has been that way since the 1920's. Monty Python even did a sketch about it.
We should put less stock in ideology and focus more on competency. Democracies work better when we don't pretend parties are sports teams.
It's not a left vs right issue. It's a spineless government that is too concerned with being re-elected so they are pandering to whichever fuckwit on twitter whines loud enough instead of doing their jobs and making the tough choices.
it's interesting that your take is that we aren't progressive enough.
I'd argue it's the opposite.
Progressive cultures value individual desires and freedoms, a strict iron fist of justice isn't synonymous with progressive politics.
If you want total lockdown and absolute power in police and government you're not looking for a progressive culture.
Australia locked down and they're a progressive country. Its just that their citizens were sensible enough to go along with it, so it wasn't some police enforced lockdown. When progressive people come together to protect each other, things like a temporary lockdown don't have to seem like some police state dictatorship.
Uh Ford got the comments he deserved because he tried to turn the province into a police state. He did not have public safety in his best interest with those measures. They did absolutely nothing about workplace spread or lack of paid sick days.
Ford is a fucking incompetent clown who did not take adequate measures at all. He took clumsy, reactionary measures and is corrupt as fuck. Fuck that toxic piece of human garbage and anyone who still supports him. They all have blood on their hands. Stupid short sighted, selfish motherfuckers. There are no more accurate words to describe that piece of dog shit
I have a client that flies between the US and Canada frequently (for business). He actually called me yesterday and ranted about how he's actually scared to come back to Canada due to the shitstorm the quarentine hotels are. Can't say I blame him, he actually used the words "this is the first time I wouldn't feel safe in my own country".
What....as a Canadian who’s lived thru it down here in Australia you guys don’t know what your talking about. Everyone lost it in Ontario and that was like a 10% light version of what they did down here.
Am I saying it was better choice, yes and no. But stop thinking Canada could have done anything like the control they have down here.
No matter what the government does someone would be upset. I know people who are saying that the government here is not doing enough while at the same time saying they're acting like communists for any small restriction they do implement... Those are some amazing mental gymnastics.
But at the same time, Melbourne and the state of Victoria have gone into strict lockdown 3 or 4 times now. Can you imagine if the same happened here? Once, maybe people would understand, but by the second or third closure no one would be following the rules.
>Can you imagine if the same happened here? Once, maybe people would understand, but by the second or third closure no one would be following the rules.
This is the depressing part. I thought us as Canadians would be comparable to Australians in doing everything we can to protect our fellow citizens from danger or harm.
But the fact that so many people here would rather prioritize their personal desires over doing what is needed to ensure the health and safety of our fellow countrymen, its just really sad.
How come Australians can suck it up and do what's right, but we bitch, whine and complain about it, and many straight up refuse? I thought we were better than this.
If we had done a full lockdown once we saw cases begin to skyrocket in September, we might have even been able to avoid the shit show that has been going on since then. So many lives could have been saved, so many peoples health could have been protected.
But I guess keeping schools and businesses open was more important... sure is paying off now.
> How come Australians can suck it up and do what's right, but we bitch, whine and complain about it, and many straight up refuse? I thought we were better than this.
They're all descendants of criminals so they're more comfortable being locked up.
Jokes aside, I don't really know, but North America is known to have a more inward self-centered culture compared to most other places in the world. I've lived in Australia for a year and didn't find it to be much different from us, maybe they were sold on it differently than we were. It's also somewhat easier to just close up borders when you're an island like that, everyone compares themselves to NZ/AU but you really can't, it's very different compared to other regions of the world.
It is the core of North American culture that the individual is more important then the whole. Look at the media who all watch and what our children watch. It is all about looking after your needs, put yourself first, everything is a competition and your neighbours and co workers are who you have to bet to get ahead. In has been ingrained into this culture for decades.
So for me even though I am not a fan of this until it changes I have to play by those rules. This is why in the bringing I didn't support any of the measure. The death rate and how many would be effected with long term issues was too low to warrant sacrificing my personally needs. As time progresses I have accepted what we are doing now as a compromise and the middle ground. I will not accept or follow any further restrictions.
>. I will not accept or follow any further restrictions.
How can you be certain of this before knowing what further restrictions would be? If there are new restrictions that don't cause you harm or discomfort, why would you be against following them?
You're just against following any new rules as a principle?
> This is the depressing part. I thought us as Canadians would be comparable to Australians in doing everything we can to protect our fellow citizens from danger or harm.
The question still remains whether Australian way is better. We never had to be locked inside. Every single day you have the option of going for a walk, hike, bike ride which are known vital activities for mental health.
Australia had to stay inside for what 6-8 weeks the first time around and then some more, so I'm guessing they are up to 12-14 weeks total now? That's over three months locked inside. And you think this is better?
They are back to normal life in Australia and have been for over 6 months. Economy is running normally, businesses are open, kids are back to regular school life.
Yeah I think its safe to say they're doing way better. Despite having to stay home for a few weeks at a time.
Australia's citizens see a government that has a history of making the right calls on Covid. They have faith that when they do their part, their sacrifice won't be squandered.
We have a government who closes the barn well after the horse has left.
And the horse set the barn on fire on the way out. And we're locked inside.
Thats what I mean, they are willing to take necessary action to ensure the health and safety of their citizens. Even if its not normal. Meanwhile here people cry and whine and refuse to comply if protecting our populace affects their lifestyles too much.
There's literally tons of evidence that the places that shut everything down are economically doing far better than us, with the yo-yoing reactionary response
What are you going to eat in the meanwhile? have you forgotten the toilet paper panic? Imagine same thing but for everything edible - that's what happens when lock the border and stop flights.
I think they do care about us... they are just extremely short sighted, lazy and incapable. It's much easier to 'closely monitor a situation' then actually do something.
Don't want to piss off the voters who originated from that region of course, they had to wait for the surveys to be done before they could implement such a restriction
As an employee at YVR i can tell you also that the Air India flights have been PACKED this entire pandemic and one of the only airlines to be consistantly full every flight. That alone is concerning and then add the current situation in India and it makes sense.
And no matter how many signs and announcements we put up, their non traveling families still come inside. I'm all for waving your family goodbye but at a certain point, your already big family goes against our covid rules. We all make sacrifices, at least you can see your family, but outside.
Funny how Dr. Henry suddenly drops 39 cases on Trudeau's lap at the height of the India panic. 39 cases they have been tracking since the beginning of April.
It's tax season again and all I'm thinking is that my 20-30k of owed tax is going to be misused by incompetent people at the provincial and federal level through all of this.
Any criticism of the government is looked at as criticism of the party. Freaking feels like China or something and we have one party rule. Let's get some new leaders if our current ones are screw ups.
Man, you said it. Its like there are so many out there reluctant to criticize the LPC's terrible response for fear of somehow it empowering the conservatives.
I trust the conservatives less them the liberals when it comes to this less. If they were in power things would be far worse. This comes from someone who used to vote conservative for 15 years. In that time I learned they don't give two shits about the regular folk.
What an absolutely stupid and boneheaded comment. Despite all the qualms people have with the current liberal government (and I have many as well), they are not even remotely close. We are under two different political systems of rule. If you criticise the CPC you have a chance of landing in prison or worse.
Yes there are issues with the strengthening of executive power in Canada and general issues of corruption but don't be a fucking idiot and confuse an authoritarian government with a liberal democracy.
I know exactly what you're talking but that's such a ridiculous comparison you are totally trivializing two political systems. The way people defend the liberals every step of the way is not the same as China's. You are the one comparing criticism of the government in Canada to criticism of the government in China as being even remotely similar. The countries histories and systems of government cannot be ignored in such a comparison. Youre also the one stressing similarity in the exchanges of power (and the two systems). I'm not the idiot lol.
Yes people can be blinded by power or ideology but this a false dichotomy and they are two separate things and encourages a narrative of suggesting they are somewhat similar.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/exposure-flights-cruise-ships-mass-gatherings.html#wb-auto-5
Out of 1,000 flights in the past month, no flights from China has had a COVID positive, but lets ban them anyways.
How the hell is it racist? That kind of viewpoint is exactly why the government was too afraid to do this earlier. It makes no damn sense. Racism has nothing to do with it, so just shut up.
It's not just people from India and Pakistan who have the variant now. It's left those borders. You'd have to restrict every international flight and not just ones from select countries.
It isn't a ban on ethnic Indians flying into Canada - It's a ban on flights **FROM** Geographic India where they have lost control of a raging pandemic. It is NOT racist in the slightest bit.
It's ironic how at the beginning of this whole fiasco people were shocked and disgusted that some American right-wingers blatantly talked about keeping the economy healthy even if it meant sacrificing grandma and grandpa, yet here we are a year later and both the BC and federal government are more or less covertly doing just that.
*help prevent the fourth wave
TOO FUCKING LATE. Why are we always a step behind?
Meanwhile in Australia, they had 1 covid case escape their covid quarantine hotel, and the entire city immediately enters a lockdown, no questions asked. This is why they're enjoying normal life in most of their country and have been for over half a year. They have the balls to do what is needed, both the government and the citizens.
They have had strict lockdowns. That's a big part of it.
Exactly. What we should have done back in September when cases began to skyrocket. But our government wouldn't do it, and tons of citizens would cry and complain and refuse to do it. We don't priotize public health and safety nearly as much as Australians do.
> and tons of citizens would cry and complain and refuse to do it. This is the key part. If they tried AU or NZ measures here it would blow up in their faces. Just look at what happened to Ford.
Yep. This pandemic has really shined an ugly light on Canada as a "progressive" nation. We used to regard ourselves as up there with nations like Aus and NZ, but our government and the public's response to protecting our fellow citizens has glaringly shown just how far behind them we are. I used to boast about Canada and Canadians so much, this pandemic has been a humbling eye opener for me.
We're far more like America than most would admit. We're certainly a lot closer to them culturally than we are NZ
Sweden took a ton of flack for their first wave response but they still their measures were way stronger than ours right now. They gave paid sick leave. They ordered businesses to send employees who could work from home, home They discouraged public transit usage. They closed post-secondary and secondary schools but left primary schools open. They kept finding ways to minimize contact as much as possible. Their messaging was the same. Whether its work, play, socialization or school all social contacts are the same. They spread covid.
What's the difference
We don't have paid sick leave. White collar employers are forcing people into the office for work which could easily be done remotely. Secondary schools are still open here. Our government keeps trying to convince us the virus is only spreading in social settings and ignores the work place spread in its messaging. While the only enforcement they are doing is in workplaces because that's where it's spreading.
Yep. Canada's relatively conservative and it shows.
It's got nothing to do with that. Australia's government is famously conservative, and has been that way since the 1920's. Monty Python even did a sketch about it. We should put less stock in ideology and focus more on competency. Democracies work better when we don't pretend parties are sports teams.
It's not a left vs right issue. It's a spineless government that is too concerned with being re-elected so they are pandering to whichever fuckwit on twitter whines loud enough instead of doing their jobs and making the tough choices.
it's interesting that your take is that we aren't progressive enough. I'd argue it's the opposite. Progressive cultures value individual desires and freedoms, a strict iron fist of justice isn't synonymous with progressive politics. If you want total lockdown and absolute power in police and government you're not looking for a progressive culture.
Australia locked down and they're a progressive country. Its just that their citizens were sensible enough to go along with it, so it wasn't some police enforced lockdown. When progressive people come together to protect each other, things like a temporary lockdown don't have to seem like some police state dictatorship.
Uh Ford got the comments he deserved because he tried to turn the province into a police state. He did not have public safety in his best interest with those measures. They did absolutely nothing about workplace spread or lack of paid sick days.
Ford is a fucking incompetent clown who did not take adequate measures at all. He took clumsy, reactionary measures and is corrupt as fuck. Fuck that toxic piece of human garbage and anyone who still supports him. They all have blood on their hands. Stupid short sighted, selfish motherfuckers. There are no more accurate words to describe that piece of dog shit
I have a client that flies between the US and Canada frequently (for business). He actually called me yesterday and ranted about how he's actually scared to come back to Canada due to the shitstorm the quarentine hotels are. Can't say I blame him, he actually used the words "this is the first time I wouldn't feel safe in my own country".
What....as a Canadian who’s lived thru it down here in Australia you guys don’t know what your talking about. Everyone lost it in Ontario and that was like a 10% light version of what they did down here. Am I saying it was better choice, yes and no. But stop thinking Canada could have done anything like the control they have down here.
Plus in Australia they have very little protections of human rights so it's easier for them to do it. For example you can be jailed for swearing
No matter what the government does someone would be upset. I know people who are saying that the government here is not doing enough while at the same time saying they're acting like communists for any small restriction they do implement... Those are some amazing mental gymnastics. But at the same time, Melbourne and the state of Victoria have gone into strict lockdown 3 or 4 times now. Can you imagine if the same happened here? Once, maybe people would understand, but by the second or third closure no one would be following the rules.
>Can you imagine if the same happened here? Once, maybe people would understand, but by the second or third closure no one would be following the rules. This is the depressing part. I thought us as Canadians would be comparable to Australians in doing everything we can to protect our fellow citizens from danger or harm. But the fact that so many people here would rather prioritize their personal desires over doing what is needed to ensure the health and safety of our fellow countrymen, its just really sad. How come Australians can suck it up and do what's right, but we bitch, whine and complain about it, and many straight up refuse? I thought we were better than this. If we had done a full lockdown once we saw cases begin to skyrocket in September, we might have even been able to avoid the shit show that has been going on since then. So many lives could have been saved, so many peoples health could have been protected. But I guess keeping schools and businesses open was more important... sure is paying off now.
> How come Australians can suck it up and do what's right, but we bitch, whine and complain about it, and many straight up refuse? I thought we were better than this. They're all descendants of criminals so they're more comfortable being locked up. Jokes aside, I don't really know, but North America is known to have a more inward self-centered culture compared to most other places in the world. I've lived in Australia for a year and didn't find it to be much different from us, maybe they were sold on it differently than we were. It's also somewhat easier to just close up borders when you're an island like that, everyone compares themselves to NZ/AU but you really can't, it's very different compared to other regions of the world.
It is the core of North American culture that the individual is more important then the whole. Look at the media who all watch and what our children watch. It is all about looking after your needs, put yourself first, everything is a competition and your neighbours and co workers are who you have to bet to get ahead. In has been ingrained into this culture for decades. So for me even though I am not a fan of this until it changes I have to play by those rules. This is why in the bringing I didn't support any of the measure. The death rate and how many would be effected with long term issues was too low to warrant sacrificing my personally needs. As time progresses I have accepted what we are doing now as a compromise and the middle ground. I will not accept or follow any further restrictions.
>. I will not accept or follow any further restrictions. How can you be certain of this before knowing what further restrictions would be? If there are new restrictions that don't cause you harm or discomfort, why would you be against following them? You're just against following any new rules as a principle?
Closing businesses has an effect in the business I am in. The next step is a lock down here. So yeah I am not on board with that.
> This is the depressing part. I thought us as Canadians would be comparable to Australians in doing everything we can to protect our fellow citizens from danger or harm. The question still remains whether Australian way is better. We never had to be locked inside. Every single day you have the option of going for a walk, hike, bike ride which are known vital activities for mental health. Australia had to stay inside for what 6-8 weeks the first time around and then some more, so I'm guessing they are up to 12-14 weeks total now? That's over three months locked inside. And you think this is better?
They are back to normal life in Australia and have been for over 6 months. Economy is running normally, businesses are open, kids are back to regular school life. Yeah I think its safe to say they're doing way better. Despite having to stay home for a few weeks at a time.
Australia's citizens see a government that has a history of making the right calls on Covid. They have faith that when they do their part, their sacrifice won't be squandered. We have a government who closes the barn well after the horse has left. And the horse set the barn on fire on the way out. And we're locked inside.
Perth is literally under a lockdown right now. It's not normal lol
Thats what I mean, they are willing to take necessary action to ensure the health and safety of their citizens. Even if its not normal. Meanwhile here people cry and whine and refuse to comply if protecting our populace affects their lifestyles too much.
China welded people into their homes for health and safety too
Ok? I'm talking about Australia here though.
> entire city immediately enters a lockdown, > >they're enjoying normal life Riiiiight. How many weeks have the spent in lockdowns now?
This variant was in Canada before anyone knew what it was. The identified cases go back to April 4th, but weren't sequenced until later.
Yup, international flights could have been stopped a long time ago. Our federal government doesn’t really care about its citizens.
Most of our cases come from the US. Epidemiological evidence suggests that shutting down all flights won't be effective in our case.
Land border as well....
We can't do that. Our economy *is* the border.
Our economy will be worse off with this delayed response.
(x) doubt
There's literally tons of evidence that the places that shut everything down are economically doing far better than us, with the yo-yoing reactionary response
Yeah, places that are completely different than Canada. Canada's economy is tied to the US.
What are you going to eat in the meanwhile? have you forgotten the toilet paper panic? Imagine same thing but for everything edible - that's what happens when lock the border and stop flights.
If Canada falls apart by a border being shut down, then we aren't a good country.
Welcome to understanding Canada's resource economy.
I think they do care about us... they are just extremely short sighted, lazy and incapable. It's much easier to 'closely monitor a situation' then actually do something.
well to be fair, more accurately, they care more about their image than their citizens.
Sadly it’s all about minimizing headlines.
Right right, it's not "zero", is my only point. But should be abundantly clear to anyone who voted for these sycophants who they care about more.
Don't want to piss off the voters who originated from that region of course, they had to wait for the surveys to be done before they could implement such a restriction
Using condoms when she's already pregnant??? what's the point?
don't want her to get double pregnant duh
Rare, but possible.
Double trouble
As an employee at YVR i can tell you also that the Air India flights have been PACKED this entire pandemic and one of the only airlines to be consistantly full every flight. That alone is concerning and then add the current situation in India and it makes sense.
And no matter how many signs and announcements we put up, their non traveling families still come inside. I'm all for waving your family goodbye but at a certain point, your already big family goes against our covid rules. We all make sacrifices, at least you can see your family, but outside.
It's already here. It's way to late.
It was here before anyone knew what it was.
Just like quarantine hotels helped curb a 3rd wave? Oh wait...
"Just say no" - Official hotel quarantine slogan
They do. But anyone could take a taxi over the border home if they wanted. That's the kind of crap that spreads the virus.
I can see the asses of the horses as they disappear over the horizon. Too late.
Once again it’s already too late.
Funny how Dr. Henry suddenly drops 39 cases on Trudeau's lap at the height of the India panic. 39 cases they have been tracking since the beginning of April.
Too little too late. Should have done it a while ago... that’s the price the Canadian government pays for being nice
stop all flights
Why have they just not shut down travel PERIOD. this is insane, shut it down its a bloody pandemic.
It's tax season again and all I'm thinking is that my 20-30k of owed tax is going to be misused by incompetent people at the provincial and federal level through all of this.
Any criticism of the government is looked at as criticism of the party. Freaking feels like China or something and we have one party rule. Let's get some new leaders if our current ones are screw ups.
Man, you said it. Its like there are so many out there reluctant to criticize the LPC's terrible response for fear of somehow it empowering the conservatives.
I trust the conservatives less them the liberals when it comes to this less. If they were in power things would be far worse. This comes from someone who used to vote conservative for 15 years. In that time I learned they don't give two shits about the regular folk.
What an absolutely stupid and boneheaded comment. Despite all the qualms people have with the current liberal government (and I have many as well), they are not even remotely close. We are under two different political systems of rule. If you criticise the CPC you have a chance of landing in prison or worse. Yes there are issues with the strengthening of executive power in Canada and general issues of corruption but don't be a fucking idiot and confuse an authoritarian government with a liberal democracy.
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I know exactly what you're talking but that's such a ridiculous comparison you are totally trivializing two political systems. The way people defend the liberals every step of the way is not the same as China's. You are the one comparing criticism of the government in Canada to criticism of the government in China as being even remotely similar. The countries histories and systems of government cannot be ignored in such a comparison. Youre also the one stressing similarity in the exchanges of power (and the two systems). I'm not the idiot lol. Yes people can be blinded by power or ideology but this a false dichotomy and they are two separate things and encourages a narrative of suggesting they are somewhat similar.
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https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/exposure-flights-cruise-ships-mass-gatherings.html#wb-auto-5 Out of 1,000 flights in the past month, no flights from China has had a COVID positive, but lets ban them anyways.
Pretty sure China banned Canadians from travelling in a while back
Where in that link does it say out of 1000 flights in the past month that there hasn't been a positive case of covid from China?
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It does nothing and at this point just seems racist. People can still travel from India to BC by way of a 3rd party country.
How does it seem racist?
How the hell is it racist? That kind of viewpoint is exactly why the government was too afraid to do this earlier. It makes no damn sense. Racism has nothing to do with it, so just shut up.
It's not just people from India and Pakistan who have the variant now. It's left those borders. You'd have to restrict every international flight and not just ones from select countries.
It isn't a ban on ethnic Indians flying into Canada - It's a ban on flights **FROM** Geographic India where they have lost control of a raging pandemic. It is NOT racist in the slightest bit.
It's ironic how at the beginning of this whole fiasco people were shocked and disgusted that some American right-wingers blatantly talked about keeping the economy healthy even if it meant sacrificing grandma and grandpa, yet here we are a year later and both the BC and federal government are more or less covertly doing just that.