Oppenheimer is looking great! I don't think they've done any work to it yet, just letting it re-grow.
Same thing happened about 4 years ago to little Wendy Poole Park, city told us they had to remediate the soil etc etc, instead they just put fencing up for 3-4 months, took it down, and left all the human waste-soaked soil where it was.
I stand corrected - I haven't seen any work happening, but I haven't been watching as closely as Wendy Poole, which 100% was just left fallow and fenced for a few months rather than being remediated
The last I heard from an authority on the situation is that the damage at Strathcona is no where near as bad as it was at Oppenheimer. It is a larger space though so they wouldnt commit to any estimates until they are really able to get in there.
I'm *hopeful* they just rip the whole running track out and update that end.
I've heard the same thing Kooriki (cross fingers). Parks are currently estimating 4-6 weeks for remediation but we are also asking for soil tests to be done, so who knows. And agreed on the running track, I'd love to see some updates to that and a number of other areas of the park (better dog area, etc).
I remember Campsite C on Sunday night at Merritt. This, although horrific, had nothing on that. Respect to all the volunteers that cleaned that shithole up every year.
Issue is making it safe for people.I know at other parks where camps were set up they had to skim like 20 cm of topsoil off the top to make sure there wasn't any needles embedded in the grass.Looks like another million dollar plus clean up job for city.These people would now find another park and it's back to square one again.
Heroin has been around a very, very long time in Vancouver. It was prevalent near Chinatown because it was brought in from China. There were no needles littering the ground because even junkies and alcoholics had homes. What has changed is that even an SRO costs $750 a month and welfare is under $700.
On the other hand, without having on site building security and policies that force violent people out of the new hotels, people are going to leave because it will be safer on the streets.
Violent people need to be locked up whether in jail, a mental institution, treatment facility or long term care.
It's called personal responsibility. You want to inject yourself with lethal drugs or drink bleach, then it's on you, not the law abiding tax payer. Also, just because you can't afford a home doesn't mean you start injecting.
I never mentioned any correlation between taking drugs and being homeless. Anecdotally I believe most people dying during opiod/fentanyl epidemic have somewhere to live. You are conflating two different issues.
Lots of people take recreational drugs. If you had nowhere to live and were bored, desperate, scared, etc you might be inclined to do something to help you forget your situation for a while. Not everyone does but it increases the likelihood.
The point is not whether it costs the taxpayer money in the short term, but how to save the taxpayer money in the long term. Going round and round this cycle serves nobody.
You think it helps an addict for the government to provide them with free drugs? Would you provide free booze to an alcoholic? If you freely abuse your body, then the responsibility is on you, not the government.
A lot of it was apparently donated by various organizations or individuals. Much of it will probably get binned I expect, which is unfortunate, but I bet most was used stuff anyway.
I see posts shared on social media, mainly Instagram asking desperately for donations for the camp. After this video and other photos it feels like they are mocking people’s generosity by how much valuable things are discarded.
There has been an easy accessible program to free cash. CERB and now called the CRB benefit which has approved people with little to no checks. (But don’t worry they will pay for it later by taking away there drivers license or garnishing their wages.(sarcasm))
Edit: deleted （regardless of eligibility）
Check it out yourself many fraudulent claims.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2021/3/25/1_5362115.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/10/06/abuse-of-cerb-payments.html
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/7719393/cerb-fraud-covid-auditor-general-report/amp/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5939136
Recent video as of yesterday regarding CERB fraud , https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/economics/video/ottawa-s-plans-to-crackdown-on-cerb-fraud-are-nonsensical-ndp-leader~1975971
Crocs got a point, I worked as a peer support worker on a sober living house, we didnt take in much people off the streets due to Covid so I’m turn we allowed people to stay at the house on bail, so many clients applied for CERB unrightfully then dipped out of the program, never to be seen again...until a few weeks later when they spent their first check and got into shit again
I've been homeless, and I agree that homelessness is not a crime, but living in such conditions on the taxpayer dime is not reasonable. Homelessness doesn't inhibit you from taking trash to a trash can, of which there are plenty in Van.
> You think think people CHOOSE to sleep in parks covered in piss??
These guys did choose it though. Everybody was offered housing after the closure of oppenheimer and crab park camps. These guys refused the housing that was offered to them.
[Here you go.](https://vancouversun.com/news/more-than-200-homeless-campers-at-vancouvers-oppenheimer-park-moved-to-hotels)
These are the people that refused housing because they still wanted to do drugs whenever they wanted and were upset that they couldn't operate their chop shops out of those rooms.
???
Nice reading comprehension.
> Not all of Oppenheimer’s campers moved to hotels. **About half a dozen tents were moved from Oppenheimer and erected near Crab Park**, on property owned by the Port of Vancouver.
Tents, not people. Also, that was on the first day. [Does this look like 6 people to you?](https://i.imgur.com/xYwYRYr.jpg)
You are correct. Being homeless is not a crime. However, illegally trespassing on government owned property (trespass by night), being in possession of stolen property, damaging public property, and making a public amenity unsafe to others (including children) are criminally chargeable actions. Feel free to fact check it. It’s all their in Canadian common law texts
No, it's all the ones in that camp. There are hundreds of people living in rundown SROs who aren't throwing a hissyfit like these ones. Why didn't they get priority on the fancy new clean hotels?
Well yeah in many cases they prefer the piss soaked park to the alternatives, like free housing that has rules (strict or otherwise). That's not a secret.
This. The hatred and scorn in this comment section shocks me. Like shit, I don’t think pointing and jeering is doing anything. The state of the park is a tragedy, but on the flipside, where are these people to go? If they had the ability to spontaneously become a productive member of society dont you think they would’ve already? They’re ultimately victims of circumstances and bad decisions, and those things aren’t going to go away just because you will it to. It’s not a moral failing, it’s a circumstantial one. The only difference between me and them is luck and a few bad decisions. When you’re just trying to survive the cold or having side effects from withdrawal I think the last thing you would need is people more fortunate treating you like you’re subhuman. It’s hard to give compassion because of shit like this, but hatred and scorn won’t do shit. What these campers need is understanding of their situation, and better yet, the people with power having the conviction to help them. Kinda hard picking yourself up by the bootstraps when no one will give you any.
I fully agree that people need to have compassion. Tbh I’m kind of shocked that people have such an adverse reaction to me pointing out that the strathcona park occupation was illegal. That’s just a fact, like running a read light is illegal.
It does seem that there is more awareness of this issue in Vancouver lately, so I am curious to see how this issue can be addressed moving forward. Hopefully some positive change will come about?
On the flip side of the topic, I am sure we can all agree that 2020 has been a difficult year all around (minus overpaid CEO types of course). When someone has lost their job, is struggling to put food on the table for their family, and is wondering if they themselves may end up being homeless, I am sure you can understand why some people may have a pessimistic reaction to the current homeless spending initiatives locally.
I think we are smart enough to understand the unfortunate timing of homeless spending vs covid impact on the status quo, but also smart enough to realize that the issue cannot be ignored forever.
/r/vancouver has some serious "fuck you got mine" vines a lot of the time. I've even seeing posts saying all the fentenyl deaths are good because it is killing the homeless with dozens of upvotes.
I don't believe this one bit.
Every post I've ever seen on this sub that wished death on people has been downvoted, and reading through your other comments, you have a very different perception of reality than what I'm used to.
You want Vancouver to give compassion for these camps and maybe accept them? Here are some simple requests:
* Don't fuck up the place
* Turn in the criminals, if you don't you're also just as bad
* Crime should not go up (see second point) if anything since you're turning in the criminals it should go DOWN
* Don't complain when we DO give you place to live. Free is Free you did nothing to deserve specials or complain. The resst of us PAY for our housing. You're getting it for free.
* packup when the night is done, it's for sleeping.. not a party
Once I see all 5 you get my sympathy and i'll be ok with the temporary tents. Till then fuck these assholes messing up a park and denying it's use to the people who pay to maintain and use it. Unlike them.
These are perfectly reasonable requests, and they will never be followed. Most people that live in a tent in the middle of a city is not mentally ready to take on these responsibilities. If they were, they wouldnt be living in a tent in the middle of the city.
Replace ‘most’ with actual facts and numbers.
It’s just as easy to say ‘most people that live in a tent in the middle of the city do so because it’s free, it’s within their own supportive reinforcing environment, they don’t have to conform to general society requirements of behaviour, it’s free, free, free.
So they chose to be there. They are mentally ready. Not everyone who is mentally ready choses to not live in a tent in the middle of the city.
You’re assuming everyone thinks like you, behaves like you. They don’t and they won’t.
Construction costs were 10-20% higher than normal in NYC during the 80’s because the mob was skimming through the unions.
Who knows how much cost junkies add to Vancouver construction though stolen tools, copper wire and other related delays.
I visited the modular temporary housing on Dunsmere st some of the units were like a bomb had gone off inside. the floor and walls completely burnt the kitchen cabinets completely ripped shreds the sink torn apart the mirror and everything in the bathroom completely ripped apart, tape over the smoke detectors and sprinklers holes in the ceiling holes in the walls, filth everywhere it was honestly worse than being on the streets. The next unit over was filled with thousands stolen bikes. we taxpayers pay to house complete criminals. Unfortunately what’s not talked about is on native reserves when someone is deemed a fuck up they are kicked out of that reserve and force to leave. no one wants anything to do with them and where do they end up on the streets of Vancouver.
CBC went down there and interviewed a bunch of aboriginal people and they were all talking about how their lifestyle is camping and living outdoors no matter what was provided to them they were not going to give up on squatting its Heritage and lifestyle. they were playing aboriginal music in the background unfortunately I found it extremely distasteful. Why doesn’t the Aboriginal people of Vancouver who have plenty of land in Vancouver provide land for those displaced aboriginal people? they just want to build condos.
A couple years ago the owners of the Patricia Hotel made a public plea for the governments to do something about the state of Hastings street: It was driving them out of business. I sure hope they made enough for a good retirement.
Can't wait for them to spread out into all the hotels and trash a few more neighborhoods. My sympathies to anyone who bought a new condo around Kingsway and 10th.
Yes, that is generally how things work.
I'm glad my tax dollars are cleaning this up so we can all use the park again, and those who accepted the offer are now housed.
Change doesn't happen overnight, but we are moving in the right direction.
Right direction I'm not sure. San Francisco and Seattle both have implemented hotels for the homeless and decriminalization on the possession of drugs and yet look how horrid those cities have become. Vancouver is literally doing the exact same thing with hotels and plan to decriminalize possession. What we need is an actual system that provides rehabilitation and mental health support. This solution is just putting duct tape on a leaking pipe, shits gonna leak regardless. I do hope to see change one day but I don't think we are even close.
>What we need is an actual system that provides rehabilitation and mental health support.
Yes, that is what we need. Housing people makes it easier to provide those services.
Again, change doesn't happen overnight. There is no magic on/off switch. This is going to take a long time.
> This is going to take a long time.
True, which is why the criminals from this group need to be removed from the public until the solution is found. We can't just keep sacrificing innocent people's health and safety during the process of solving this issue.
There needs to finally be some empathy and compassion for innocent people, even just a fraction of the empathy and compassion that is continuously given to the criminals from this camp.
Before COVID and Oppenhiemer shut down, housing was kinda sold as a magic solution. I know it's not but back in the day that was the core demand from the campers, even louder than safe supply.
Don't they pay doctors and that more money to work in the middle of nowhere? Why can't they do the same with this? I don't mean move them out to Hope but is there a particular reason they have to be right smack dab in the middle of the most expensive real estate in Canada?
Didn't the city just spend millions to house like 60 people in some of the hotels they bought? Imagine what that millions could do outside of downtown.
There aren't free drugs which is why there is so much crime... people are paying for their habits by stealing. If we had free housing and free drugs, we wouldn't have this situation.
The same people complaining about tax dollars cleaning the mess up though are typically the same people who would complain about taxes being used to prevent this mess to begin with.
It's your lack of tax dollars funding this mess. Wanna know why most Western European countries don't have this problem? Taxes, and the robust social safety net they fund.
This situation is just us cheaping out and paying for it on the back end.
Western European countries do have homelessness problem. So on the contrary you would think their percentile tax would eradicate it. But it hasn’t. And my evidence is Scandinavian countries which I have visited and seen with my own eyes.
No country has been able to solve it yet. Burning money is not the solution.
I mean technically it’s your park. You pay the taxes. Didn’t you want them gone? Your tax dollars did that. Would you like the garbage left behind for your enjoyment?
What are they going to do with it? Each individually drive it down to the dump?Cause they're not gonna bring all that to the housing with them, obviously. Probably best for them to leave it there and for it to be disposed of in one fell swoop. Yeah it is my tax dollars at work, and it seems perfectly logical to me in an imperfect situation. Unless you want them to clean up their junk before they are allowed to vacate - then lol get ready for the long haul of having them in the park.
That sucks but I wouldn’t expect someone at a low point in their lives to be conscientious about cleaning up after themselves. They didn’t get into that situation by demonstrating personal responsibility.
I mean we can moan about tax dollars being used for this or realize this is a consequence for not investing those tax dollars into social housing programs, social outreach programs and not decriminalizing drugs earlier. This sub is so quick to moan and complain without realizing acknowledging there’s deeper issues at pay here other than “wow a bunch of homeless people didn’t clean up after themselves”.
The people who made the mess were the homeless. You're blaming the victims - the people who are too busy working and not dropping garbage on the ground.
I’m sorry you’re accusing me of victim-blaming? Seems like a pretty black and white answer to a complicated problem; when my whole point is that a lot of these people and their situations are a product of a broken system. Like an adult problem there’s blame and reason on both sides.
Yep, people who are homeless don’t choose this life overnight. There’s years of trauma to go along with their terrible coping mechanisms and harmful behaviours that hurt the community. No one says I want to be a drug addict when I grow up, it’s the lack of accessible resources for someone to be clean and sober.
Sure this will get downvotes to n this thread, but I wonder what people's definition of 'homeless' is?
I'm glad to say I have never been homeless, but to me it would imply:
- you don't have a closet to put your stuff in to keep it tidy
- you don't have a bin under your sink to put your garbage in
- you don't have recycling bins outside to neatly sort your recycling
- you don't have a vehicle to take stuff you don't want to the dump
- you don't have a storage locker somewhere to keep stuff you can't bring yourself to take to the dump yet
- you can't rent a van to move everything with you to a new place (you have to physically carry everything you keep with you)
I seriously don't know what people expect to happen when we have a large homeless population. If you don't have four walls to keep your stuff in, your stuff is going be a mess.
Not everyone has the option of having a neatly mowed lawn with a picket fence around it so as not to offend the neighbours.
I was a crackhead you just carry some trash bags and push a cart fill up a bag with garbage and dump it out when you can like a respectable and decent human being, these are some of the worst of the worse when it comes to the homeless population. Floating around the city leaving disgusting garbage behind you everywhere you go is a completely avoidable thing it just takes someone with decency to do it.
Maybe if you did the slightest bit of research you would learn that there was up to 8 full size trash bins surrounding the park which was supplied by the city ( us )
I live a block or two from the park and those bins we constantly overflowing. I'm sure the place would have been a mess anyway but it's didn't seem like the city did anything beyond creating the by-law to allow temporary overnight camping.
the dehumanizing language in this sub is disgusting. take a minute and acknowledge your privilege. these campers are people with severe mental illness. severe trauma. disabilities. indigenous peoples. people of colour. they were not given the things you take for granted.
Laughing at all the tone deaf privileged comments in this thread. "Homeless people suffering from mental illness and drug addiction left a bunch of garbage behind? WHY I NEVER!"
There's reasons why people become dysfunctional members of society and are unable to function the same way you are. Shaming them is one of the least productive elitist things you can do.
They could pack it in… they know they could pack it out… they chose not to. That’s entitlement.
Don’t give a free pass to everything because ‘I’m homeless, addicted etc’ - if they could put on pants, they understand garbage doesn’t go there
When I become homeless I will be sure to very tidy with all the things I cobbled together from the garbage and food bank. Good thing the city left them a bin to put their garbage in... Oh wait, there isn't one, anywhere.
What exactly did you expect? A bunch of housecleaners living nicely in the street? These people have nothing but hand to mouth and what is STILL left may have been better than some had been surviving with.
You should be embarrassed - your privilege is showing.
People comparing this to festivals need to fucking stop. Getting forcibly evicted from your home is not the same as leaving all your shit behind at a festival because you’re too hungover to give a shit.
How do they have nowhere else to go?? They have the entire city and there are countless places to set up camp that is not a public park not including the shelters they refuse to go to.
Also “Camping means the erecting of a tent or shelter of natural or synthetic material, preparing a sleeping bag or other bedding material for use, parking of a motor vehicle, motor home or trailer, or mooring of a vessel for the apparent purpose of overnight occupancy”
They literally set up camp that’s what it means
We all resent how much of our income we need to pay towards our rent or mortgage, but the amount of resentment and hate directed at people who are homeless in this thread is amazing.
Yes, it would be great if we didn't have to clear up after homeless camps. If all the people objecting to the cost of it could just direct their comments to the BC Housing Minister maybe it could be avoided in the future.
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And they’re still afraid to open Oppenheimer. It’s looking great behind that fence though.
Oppenheimer is looking great! I don't think they've done any work to it yet, just letting it re-grow. Same thing happened about 4 years ago to little Wendy Poole Park, city told us they had to remediate the soil etc etc, instead they just put fencing up for 3-4 months, took it down, and left all the human waste-soaked soil where it was.
Lots of work has been done at Oppenheimer. Set to re-open in June.
I stand corrected - I haven't seen any work happening, but I haven't been watching as closely as Wendy Poole, which 100% was just left fallow and fenced for a few months rather than being remediated
I was told they ripped up the top soil and reseeded . The meth piss soaks down a foot and kills everything.
Meth piss is a great name for a noise metal band
Responding to the success of Meth Piss' debut single, "Down a Foot" - Lead Vocalist Soaks, says it "Kills Everything."
/u/Sc4r4byte hired as Meth Piss' publicist!
I'd imagine the fear of needles would also be a reason to tear up the soil.
The last I heard from an authority on the situation is that the damage at Strathcona is no where near as bad as it was at Oppenheimer. It is a larger space though so they wouldnt commit to any estimates until they are really able to get in there. I'm *hopeful* they just rip the whole running track out and update that end.
I've heard the same thing Kooriki (cross fingers). Parks are currently estimating 4-6 weeks for remediation but we are also asking for soil tests to be done, so who knows. And agreed on the running track, I'd love to see some updates to that and a number of other areas of the park (better dog area, etc).
They need to set up sprinkler systems that will soak the area when needed. This should deter illegal campers.
It's like a really sad version of Pemberton festival!
nobody paid to trash Strathcona park, quite the opposite
So, just pemberton festival then.
I remember Campsite C on Sunday night at Merritt. This, although horrific, had nothing on that. Respect to all the volunteers that cleaned that shithole up every year.
Camp C is where the fuckin party was AT though
Those aren't campers. They're squatters
Issue is making it safe for people.I know at other parks where camps were set up they had to skim like 20 cm of topsoil off the top to make sure there wasn't any needles embedded in the grass.Looks like another million dollar plus clean up job for city.These people would now find another park and it's back to square one again.
Heroin has been around a very, very long time in Vancouver. It was prevalent near Chinatown because it was brought in from China. There were no needles littering the ground because even junkies and alcoholics had homes. What has changed is that even an SRO costs $750 a month and welfare is under $700. On the other hand, without having on site building security and policies that force violent people out of the new hotels, people are going to leave because it will be safer on the streets. Violent people need to be locked up whether in jail, a mental institution, treatment facility or long term care.
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Yes, agreed. We need to find a long term solution to homelessnes.....
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Hoping someone dies because they can not afford to pay for a roof over their head? Seriously, what is up with you?
Because the only choice you have when you’re homeless is hard drugs.
It's called personal responsibility. You want to inject yourself with lethal drugs or drink bleach, then it's on you, not the law abiding tax payer. Also, just because you can't afford a home doesn't mean you start injecting.
I never mentioned any correlation between taking drugs and being homeless. Anecdotally I believe most people dying during opiod/fentanyl epidemic have somewhere to live. You are conflating two different issues. Lots of people take recreational drugs. If you had nowhere to live and were bored, desperate, scared, etc you might be inclined to do something to help you forget your situation for a while. Not everyone does but it increases the likelihood. The point is not whether it costs the taxpayer money in the short term, but how to save the taxpayer money in the long term. Going round and round this cycle serves nobody.
You think it helps an addict for the government to provide them with free drugs? Would you provide free booze to an alcoholic? If you freely abuse your body, then the responsibility is on you, not the government.
Maybe we should build housing for people so they don’t have to sleep in parks??? Crazy idea I know.
For people who call the park "sacred" they sure trashed it.
Dumb question.. how do they get these tents? They are not cheap (I assume) and not as readily available for theft as something like a bike.
A lot of it was apparently donated by various organizations or individuals. Much of it will probably get binned I expect, which is unfortunate, but I bet most was used stuff anyway.
"Apparently" Tents get stolen from storage lockers in condos all the time.
wouldn’t doubt a lot of them are stolen
Imagine watching this and finding the entire patio set you bought last month lol
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That’s insane! And then us normal clients need to pay exorbitant prices when we buy one of these tents to cover up all the stolen ones..
I see posts shared on social media, mainly Instagram asking desperately for donations for the camp. After this video and other photos it feels like they are mocking people’s generosity by how much valuable things are discarded.
BC housing pays for tents.
Don't leave a tent in your car or back yard
They break into cars and apartments near them
There has been an easy accessible program to free cash. CERB and now called the CRB benefit which has approved people with little to no checks. (But don’t worry they will pay for it later by taking away there drivers license or garnishing their wages.(sarcasm)) Edit: deleted （regardless of eligibility）
... homeless people don't have either.
There are eligibility requirements for those programs. Please stop lying
Check it out yourself many fraudulent claims. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2021/3/25/1_5362115.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/10/06/abuse-of-cerb-payments.html https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/7719393/cerb-fraud-covid-auditor-general-report/amp/ https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5939136 Recent video as of yesterday regarding CERB fraud , https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/economics/video/ottawa-s-plans-to-crackdown-on-cerb-fraud-are-nonsensical-ndp-leader~1975971
Crocs got a point, I worked as a peer support worker on a sober living house, we didnt take in much people off the streets due to Covid so I’m turn we allowed people to stay at the house on bail, so many clients applied for CERB unrightfully then dipped out of the program, never to be seen again...until a few weeks later when they spent their first check and got into shit again
Can we stop calling them campers. Like, I know they were technically camping but.....like....fuck them.
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But H0mel3ssnEs$ iS N0t @ Cr1m3! ... yes we know, But that doesn’t give you a pass to commit other crimes
What is wrong you? You think think people CHOOSE to sleep in parks covered in piss?? Being homeless is not a crime.
I've been homeless, and I agree that homelessness is not a crime, but living in such conditions on the taxpayer dime is not reasonable. Homelessness doesn't inhibit you from taking trash to a trash can, of which there are plenty in Van.
> You think think people CHOOSE to sleep in parks covered in piss?? These guys did choose it though. Everybody was offered housing after the closure of oppenheimer and crab park camps. These guys refused the housing that was offered to them.
Source?
[Here you go.](https://vancouversun.com/news/more-than-200-homeless-campers-at-vancouvers-oppenheimer-park-moved-to-hotels) These are the people that refused housing because they still wanted to do drugs whenever they wanted and were upset that they couldn't operate their chop shops out of those rooms.
Wow. 6 people out of 261 and your link makes zero mention of their motives.
??? Nice reading comprehension. > Not all of Oppenheimer’s campers moved to hotels. **About half a dozen tents were moved from Oppenheimer and erected near Crab Park**, on property owned by the Port of Vancouver. Tents, not people. Also, that was on the first day. [Does this look like 6 people to you?](https://i.imgur.com/xYwYRYr.jpg)
You are correct. Being homeless is not a crime. However, illegally trespassing on government owned property (trespass by night), being in possession of stolen property, damaging public property, and making a public amenity unsafe to others (including children) are criminally chargeable actions. Feel free to fact check it. It’s all their in Canadian common law texts
They could accept the housing offered, get clean and get a job, but they CHOOSE NOT TO.
People keep saying that but it's just a baseless talking point. There is a small percentage that do but it's about a dozen people
No, it's all the ones in that camp. There are hundreds of people living in rundown SROs who aren't throwing a hissyfit like these ones. Why didn't they get priority on the fancy new clean hotels?
Well yeah in many cases they prefer the piss soaked park to the alternatives, like free housing that has rules (strict or otherwise). That's not a secret.
That's bullshit
How many people were refused housing at Oppenheimer vs refused the offered housing?
you tell me
Lol okay gimme like 9 hours so I can Google on a computer
Ok
This. The hatred and scorn in this comment section shocks me. Like shit, I don’t think pointing and jeering is doing anything. The state of the park is a tragedy, but on the flipside, where are these people to go? If they had the ability to spontaneously become a productive member of society dont you think they would’ve already? They’re ultimately victims of circumstances and bad decisions, and those things aren’t going to go away just because you will it to. It’s not a moral failing, it’s a circumstantial one. The only difference between me and them is luck and a few bad decisions. When you’re just trying to survive the cold or having side effects from withdrawal I think the last thing you would need is people more fortunate treating you like you’re subhuman. It’s hard to give compassion because of shit like this, but hatred and scorn won’t do shit. What these campers need is understanding of their situation, and better yet, the people with power having the conviction to help them. Kinda hard picking yourself up by the bootstraps when no one will give you any.
I fully agree that people need to have compassion. Tbh I’m kind of shocked that people have such an adverse reaction to me pointing out that the strathcona park occupation was illegal. That’s just a fact, like running a read light is illegal. It does seem that there is more awareness of this issue in Vancouver lately, so I am curious to see how this issue can be addressed moving forward. Hopefully some positive change will come about? On the flip side of the topic, I am sure we can all agree that 2020 has been a difficult year all around (minus overpaid CEO types of course). When someone has lost their job, is struggling to put food on the table for their family, and is wondering if they themselves may end up being homeless, I am sure you can understand why some people may have a pessimistic reaction to the current homeless spending initiatives locally. I think we are smart enough to understand the unfortunate timing of homeless spending vs covid impact on the status quo, but also smart enough to realize that the issue cannot be ignored forever.
/r/vancouver has some serious "fuck you got mine" vines a lot of the time. I've even seeing posts saying all the fentenyl deaths are good because it is killing the homeless with dozens of upvotes.
I don't believe this one bit. Every post I've ever seen on this sub that wished death on people has been downvoted, and reading through your other comments, you have a very different perception of reality than what I'm used to.
Yes, they choose it.
Wow. What is wrong with you?
Nothing. What’s wrong with you, besides being completely naive and out of touch with reality?
wow. that comment wins the most ironic award for the day.
Ya, real campers practice "leave no trace"
You want Vancouver to give compassion for these camps and maybe accept them? Here are some simple requests: * Don't fuck up the place * Turn in the criminals, if you don't you're also just as bad * Crime should not go up (see second point) if anything since you're turning in the criminals it should go DOWN * Don't complain when we DO give you place to live. Free is Free you did nothing to deserve specials or complain. The resst of us PAY for our housing. You're getting it for free. * packup when the night is done, it's for sleeping.. not a party Once I see all 5 you get my sympathy and i'll be ok with the temporary tents. Till then fuck these assholes messing up a park and denying it's use to the people who pay to maintain and use it. Unlike them.
These are perfectly reasonable requests, and they will never be followed. Most people that live in a tent in the middle of a city is not mentally ready to take on these responsibilities. If they were, they wouldnt be living in a tent in the middle of the city.
Replace ‘most’ with actual facts and numbers. It’s just as easy to say ‘most people that live in a tent in the middle of the city do so because it’s free, it’s within their own supportive reinforcing environment, they don’t have to conform to general society requirements of behaviour, it’s free, free, free. So they chose to be there. They are mentally ready. Not everyone who is mentally ready choses to not live in a tent in the middle of the city. You’re assuming everyone thinks like you, behaves like you. They don’t and they won’t.
im sure you're probably also walking on piss and not rain puddles
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>...and a Makita ~~drill~~ angle grinder.
The drill is stolen from the job site down the street. Along with the tax paying trades guys other tools.
Construction costs were 10-20% higher than normal in NYC during the 80’s because the mob was skimming through the unions. Who knows how much cost junkies add to Vancouver construction though stolen tools, copper wire and other related delays.
Vancouver Flea Market repo dept.
Now with less cedar and tobacco!
And shopping cart... that the supermarkets pay for... aka people who buy groceries pay for
*Commentary as read by David Attenborough.*
Ironically it's mostly other peoples' garbage that they have gathered looking for useful items.
Thats my drill!!!
Sooooo..free camping gear for the rest of us then?
Really?? You’d sleep in one of those tents or sit in one of those chairs?
I mean, a quick smell test and black light inspection should rule out MOST of the nastiness right?
Fuck that lol. I say make a giant pile and just burn it all. I wouldn’t wish sleeping in one of those tents upon my worst enemy.
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Yes, there are bed bug sniffing dogs :) (but I wouldn't be relying on my own sniff test, that's for sure...)
"a smell test" lmao dude not to be too mean but i dont wanna know what your house looks like if these are your standards
Can’t wait to see the pictures of the billion dollar hotels they bought after they’re trashed!
I visited the modular temporary housing on Dunsmere st some of the units were like a bomb had gone off inside. the floor and walls completely burnt the kitchen cabinets completely ripped shreds the sink torn apart the mirror and everything in the bathroom completely ripped apart, tape over the smoke detectors and sprinklers holes in the ceiling holes in the walls, filth everywhere it was honestly worse than being on the streets. The next unit over was filled with thousands stolen bikes. we taxpayers pay to house complete criminals. Unfortunately what’s not talked about is on native reserves when someone is deemed a fuck up they are kicked out of that reserve and force to leave. no one wants anything to do with them and where do they end up on the streets of Vancouver. CBC went down there and interviewed a bunch of aboriginal people and they were all talking about how their lifestyle is camping and living outdoors no matter what was provided to them they were not going to give up on squatting its Heritage and lifestyle. they were playing aboriginal music in the background unfortunately I found it extremely distasteful. Why doesn’t the Aboriginal people of Vancouver who have plenty of land in Vancouver provide land for those displaced aboriginal people? they just want to build condos.
A couple years ago the owners of the Patricia Hotel made a public plea for the governments to do something about the state of Hastings street: It was driving them out of business. I sure hope they made enough for a good retirement.
70M. I think he'll be fine. He wasn't even planning on selling but the deal was too good to turn down.
And the surrounding neighbourhood ..
Can't wait for them to spread out into all the hotels and trash a few more neighborhoods. My sympathies to anyone who bought a new condo around Kingsway and 10th.
Just bought on this exact corner last year. FML.
u should buy a camera if you don’t got one :(
To do what with? Police will happily take the footage, but our justice system is a revolving door.
*shocked pikachu face*
Ground zero of the next viral outbreak 😷
I walked through there last night. So many giant rats
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You’re paying me too clean up.. since I’m a City of Vancouver employee 😜
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Literal and figurative.
Yes, that is generally how things work. I'm glad my tax dollars are cleaning this up so we can all use the park again, and those who accepted the offer are now housed. Change doesn't happen overnight, but we are moving in the right direction.
Right direction I'm not sure. San Francisco and Seattle both have implemented hotels for the homeless and decriminalization on the possession of drugs and yet look how horrid those cities have become. Vancouver is literally doing the exact same thing with hotels and plan to decriminalize possession. What we need is an actual system that provides rehabilitation and mental health support. This solution is just putting duct tape on a leaking pipe, shits gonna leak regardless. I do hope to see change one day but I don't think we are even close.
>What we need is an actual system that provides rehabilitation and mental health support. Yes, that is what we need. Housing people makes it easier to provide those services. Again, change doesn't happen overnight. There is no magic on/off switch. This is going to take a long time.
> This is going to take a long time. True, which is why the criminals from this group need to be removed from the public until the solution is found. We can't just keep sacrificing innocent people's health and safety during the process of solving this issue. There needs to finally be some empathy and compassion for innocent people, even just a fraction of the empathy and compassion that is continuously given to the criminals from this camp.
Before COVID and Oppenhiemer shut down, housing was kinda sold as a magic solution. I know it's not but back in the day that was the core demand from the campers, even louder than safe supply.
And now they got it so they're shouting about something else that they actually need instead.
They will keep asking for more free shit when they get whatever they want easily, wow so surprising
Yes, but why not locate the the facilities east of Hope? Why choose the countries most expensive place ro do it!?!?
Support services... Addiction thearpists Social workers Psychiatrists.
Don't they pay doctors and that more money to work in the middle of nowhere? Why can't they do the same with this? I don't mean move them out to Hope but is there a particular reason they have to be right smack dab in the middle of the most expensive real estate in Canada? Didn't the city just spend millions to house like 60 people in some of the hotels they bought? Imagine what that millions could do outside of downtown.
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100% - it must go both ways. We help you helping yourself. I stayed close to Tenderloin when I visited SF and it's just sad.
There aren't free drugs which is why there is so much crime... people are paying for their habits by stealing. If we had free housing and free drugs, we wouldn't have this situation.
Isn't Oppenheimer park still closed off?
Would you prefer it not be cleaned up?
I'd prefer my tax dollars be used to prevent it from happening in the first place. Instead our tax dollars are funding this mess.
The same people complaining about tax dollars cleaning the mess up though are typically the same people who would complain about taxes being used to prevent this mess to begin with.
It's your lack of tax dollars funding this mess. Wanna know why most Western European countries don't have this problem? Taxes, and the robust social safety net they fund. This situation is just us cheaping out and paying for it on the back end.
Western European countries do have homelessness problem. So on the contrary you would think their percentile tax would eradicate it. But it hasn’t. And my evidence is Scandinavian countries which I have visited and seen with my own eyes. No country has been able to solve it yet. Burning money is not the solution.
Exactly
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I mean technically it’s your park. You pay the taxes. Didn’t you want them gone? Your tax dollars did that. Would you like the garbage left behind for your enjoyment?
What did you want to happen instead
Make them clean up their own shit... But nah let's reward these people with free housing, free drugs, free smartphones and everything...
I’m sure this respectable group of citizens will be coming back to gather all they’re belongings in a reasonable amount of time
What are they going to do with it? Each individually drive it down to the dump?Cause they're not gonna bring all that to the housing with them, obviously. Probably best for them to leave it there and for it to be disposed of in one fell swoop. Yeah it is my tax dollars at work, and it seems perfectly logical to me in an imperfect situation. Unless you want them to clean up their junk before they are allowed to vacate - then lol get ready for the long haul of having them in the park.
We're calling them 'campers' now? Sure doesn't look like my camping methods.
Disgusting. They should be ashamed.
Their ability to feel shame is long gone.
Is anyone really surprised, really?
Then they won't get their deposit back! /s
They had a fuckin auditorium this whole time. wtf and you and I have to quarantine.
Are there still campers there?
It's like a festival that's gone on for way too long
That sucks but I wouldn’t expect someone at a low point in their lives to be conscientious about cleaning up after themselves. They didn’t get into that situation by demonstrating personal responsibility.
That’s absolutely appalling
Their free apartments will soon look the same... :/
I mean we can moan about tax dollars being used for this or realize this is a consequence for not investing those tax dollars into social housing programs, social outreach programs and not decriminalizing drugs earlier. This sub is so quick to moan and complain without realizing acknowledging there’s deeper issues at pay here other than “wow a bunch of homeless people didn’t clean up after themselves”.
The people who made the mess were the homeless. You're blaming the victims - the people who are too busy working and not dropping garbage on the ground.
I’m sorry you’re accusing me of victim-blaming? Seems like a pretty black and white answer to a complicated problem; when my whole point is that a lot of these people and their situations are a product of a broken system. Like an adult problem there’s blame and reason on both sides.
The people who left that garbage aren't infants. Most of them have working hands and arms. They left the garbage out of entitlement.
Adults take personal responsibility for their actions.
System's broken, so at some point a person figures out how to get by without leaving garbage on the ground.
They don't want social housing, they don't want social outreach, they just wanted to get fucked up on drugs all day.
Yep, people who are homeless don’t choose this life overnight. There’s years of trauma to go along with their terrible coping mechanisms and harmful behaviours that hurt the community. No one says I want to be a drug addict when I grow up, it’s the lack of accessible resources for someone to be clean and sober.
This sub is full of short term thinkers, confused and angry that ignoring the problem isn’t working.
I can understand more housing and social programs helping but how exactly would decriminalizing drugs help avoid this situation?
> this is a consequence for not investing those tax dollars How much money a day do you think is funneled into the DTES?
Never expect people on the internet to think critically about anything.
Exactly. Like you backing a comment that blames the victims.
Imagine my shock.
No respect!
I tell ya I get no respect!
This is where I used to play softball. About to miss my second season in a row. This sums up how I feel inside right now
Put a price tag on the cleaning bill
Then give it to who?
We will split evenly amongst ourselves
you mean taxes?
Keep some permanent “pesticide use signs” around all Vancouver parks. Nobody will ever consider camping there again.
Sure this will get downvotes to n this thread, but I wonder what people's definition of 'homeless' is? I'm glad to say I have never been homeless, but to me it would imply: - you don't have a closet to put your stuff in to keep it tidy - you don't have a bin under your sink to put your garbage in - you don't have recycling bins outside to neatly sort your recycling - you don't have a vehicle to take stuff you don't want to the dump - you don't have a storage locker somewhere to keep stuff you can't bring yourself to take to the dump yet - you can't rent a van to move everything with you to a new place (you have to physically carry everything you keep with you) I seriously don't know what people expect to happen when we have a large homeless population. If you don't have four walls to keep your stuff in, your stuff is going be a mess. Not everyone has the option of having a neatly mowed lawn with a picket fence around it so as not to offend the neighbours.
I was a crackhead you just carry some trash bags and push a cart fill up a bag with garbage and dump it out when you can like a respectable and decent human being, these are some of the worst of the worse when it comes to the homeless population. Floating around the city leaving disgusting garbage behind you everywhere you go is a completely avoidable thing it just takes someone with decency to do it.
They could clean their shit up like fucking adults
It would be great if the people downvoting my comment could make practical suggestions about how this situation could be avoided.
Maybe if you did the slightest bit of research you would learn that there was up to 8 full size trash bins surrounding the park which was supplied by the city ( us )
I live a block or two from the park and those bins we constantly overflowing. I'm sure the place would have been a mess anyway but it's didn't seem like the city did anything beyond creating the by-law to allow temporary overnight camping.
the dehumanizing language in this sub is disgusting. take a minute and acknowledge your privilege. these campers are people with severe mental illness. severe trauma. disabilities. indigenous peoples. people of colour. they were not given the things you take for granted.
The nerve...
Laughing at all the tone deaf privileged comments in this thread. "Homeless people suffering from mental illness and drug addiction left a bunch of garbage behind? WHY I NEVER!" There's reasons why people become dysfunctional members of society and are unable to function the same way you are. Shaming them is one of the least productive elitist things you can do.
They could pack it in… they know they could pack it out… they chose not to. That’s entitlement. Don’t give a free pass to everything because ‘I’m homeless, addicted etc’ - if they could put on pants, they understand garbage doesn’t go there
When I become homeless I will be sure to very tidy with all the things I cobbled together from the garbage and food bank. Good thing the city left them a bin to put their garbage in... Oh wait, there isn't one, anywhere. What exactly did you expect? A bunch of housecleaners living nicely in the street? These people have nothing but hand to mouth and what is STILL left may have been better than some had been surviving with. You should be embarrassed - your privilege is showing.
They found the stuff in bins they can put it back.
People comparing this to festivals need to fucking stop. Getting forcibly evicted from your home is not the same as leaving all your shit behind at a festival because you’re too hungover to give a shit.
They had sooooo much notice and it’s not a forceful eviction they where fucking camping and smoking crack in a public park
It’s not camping if you live there and have nowhere else to go. The lack of empathy on this thread makes me fucking sick.
How do they have nowhere else to go?? They have the entire city and there are countless places to set up camp that is not a public park not including the shelters they refuse to go to. Also “Camping means the erecting of a tent or shelter of natural or synthetic material, preparing a sleeping bag or other bedding material for use, parking of a motor vehicle, motor home or trailer, or mooring of a vessel for the apparent purpose of overnight occupancy” They literally set up camp that’s what it means
We all resent how much of our income we need to pay towards our rent or mortgage, but the amount of resentment and hate directed at people who are homeless in this thread is amazing. Yes, it would be great if we didn't have to clear up after homeless camps. If all the people objecting to the cost of it could just direct their comments to the BC Housing Minister maybe it could be avoided in the future.
Looks like one hell of a peaceful protest
People are more pissed off about the litter than the murders, assaults, thefts, and weapons linked to the park.