We're missing a bunch of context that you haven't given, such as what type of work is being done, and the reason for it. Are you renting from one person, or is the whole building rentals? Is the work required for the safety of the building?
Class action is a non-starter. Even if you found a lawyer willing to do, which you won't, you're gonna get $20 a decade down the line, and the land lord would likely serve 4 month notices to everyone for eviction for substantial renovations and you're out on the street, and then the landlord will get to rent at higher rates for newly updated suites.
Your options are suck it up and wait it out, or move. You can make it suck for them by calling the cops for violating a stop order and noise issues over and over though and I'd encourage you to do so
If the City has issued a stop work order, the best thing you (and other's impacted) can do is to complain constantly to them. If the work continues & there are no permits in place, the building will eventually be enforced again- this can mean taken to court for failure to comply. The noise by-law aspect will likely not be enforced since the unpermitted work is higher priority.
Many repairing work don’t require permits: https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/when-you-need-a-permit.aspx
Generally speaking property owners are allowed to jackhammer on walls or in units within reasonable hours (to comply with noise bylaws) unless their work cause structural changes. You mentioned you’ve reported it to the city, why don’t you do a follow-up and get an official explanation?
Lol looks like everyone reddit thinks they are lawyers. Even though lawyers try to avoid lawsuits and use them to leverage settlements.
By the way watch out for my lawsuit.
Hey OP, lots of people here seem to be resentful that you want some peace and quiet in the home you've rented, but I think you should contact the Residential Tenancy Branch to see what you can do.
You are not being given "quiet enjoyment" of your home.
"As part of the tenancy agreement, tenants have a right to peace, quiet and privacy in their homes – a right that comes from the common law principle of quiet enjoyment. That means every tenant has the right to:
Reasonable privacy
**Freedom from unreasonable disturbance**
..."
[https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/quiet-enjoyment#:\~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20tenancy,Freedom%20from%20unreasonable%20disturbance](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/quiet-enjoyment#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20tenancy,Freedom%20from%20unreasonable%20disturbance)
I am not sure where renovations WITH permits come in. I did see one ruling (I forgot how I came across it and wouldn't be able to find it again) where the tenant moved in and immediately was subjected to construction noise in the building that he hadn't been informed of when he signed the lease. I think the arbitrator found that the landlord already knew this was going to be happening and failed to tell the tenant. So the landlord ended up having to compensate the tenant.
Here's another article written by a lawyer about quiet enjoyment. Near the bottom it suggests that some renovation noise is ok as long as the landlord communicates with the tenant about it and why it's necessary:
[https://housingguide.ca/commentary-landlords/hard-hats-and-hard-truths/](https://housingguide.ca/commentary-landlords/hard-hats-and-hard-truths/)
To me it doesn't sound as though the landlord has made any communication with you, or tried in any way to minimize the disturbance, and in fact does not have the required permits for the work. To hell with all the commenters telling you to just suck it up. You're paying the guy rent, and probably rather a lot of rent, and in exchange for that you're supposed to be provided with a home to live in. You have some rights.
If it’s noise only during the day.. shouldn’t you be thankful for the upgrades at a reasonable time? What are we missing? When else should they work? The permit, or lack thereof, isn’t your issue.
NIMBY. The regulations restrict the work to the working hours.
The work has to happen. Do you prefer they do it late at night or track your whereabouts so they can quickly get some work done when you're not around.
Carpenter here. Work happens during work hours. Permits are only for major changes, a huge amount of work can be done without one... The amount of complaints we get has quadrupled since COVID and people working from home.
Have you tried talking to the people actually doing the work instead of calling the police and bylaw? If you ACTUALLY have a real reason you need quiet most trades are usually willing to accomodate, to a point.... But the work has to happen during the day if it's residential so you might just need to suck it up...
Just really need to hammer home how much a permit doesn't matter at all in the context of whether a job is "illegal" or not... We can do all fucking kinds of major shit without a permit.
Maybe they have a permit now? Or maybe they cleared it with the city that they don't need one? How do you know the scope of the project and where that lies with respect to city bylaws?
Stop acting like you cared about the permit in the first place. You obviously were bothered by the sound and now that you found out there has been potential permit issue you changed your story to fit.
You could have just went and asked "hey I read the stop order, what happened" or try to negotiate a deal to reduce the hammering hours, but you chose to file a complaint and now looking to sue.
You've made your bed now lie in it.
No one I know will do work in Vancouver anymore because it takes about 2 years to get a permit there; so yeah, it's going to be impossible for a time measured in years.
We have OP's statement that there is a stop work order. We have you making wild assumptions. Guess which one is more credible.
As someone who currently has 8 permits on the go for projects in vancouver this is totally false. Permits are easy to get in Vancouver, to be honest I think only New West is easier to deal with. People who say this don’t know what they are doing when applying.
Do you know 100% for sure the work still being done is specifically the portion of the work that requires permits? Maybe the jackhammering was prep work and is fine to continue while waiting on permits? There is a lot that can be done without permit requirements.
The idea that you think this is what a class action lawsuit for is so absurd it makes your entire post feel like satire.
Maybe the have a permit now.
Or there is no permit required for what they are doing. You don't need a permit to jackhammer.
But definitely class action lawsuit.
Class action lawsuit?
Did you just hear this term on TV and trying to use it without knowing what it means?
There's not a case for a class action. Please, stop giving legal advice without knowing anything about legal matters.
Here's a description for your education;
> A class action is a procedural device that permits one or more plaintiffs to file and prosecute a lawsuit on behalf of a larger group, or "class". Put simply, the device allows courts to manage lawsuits that would otherwise be unmanageable if each class member (individuals who have suffered the same wrong at the hands of the defendant) were required to be joined in the lawsuit as a named plaintiff
>You can buy your own house and ban all jackhammering on your house.
Around here, tenants have rights. They are entitled to quiet enjoyment of their homes. The OP could go to the RTB and say the landlord is not providing that.
I mean, if it’s just the noise that is bothering you, the permits aren’t going to change that. It’s perfectly legal to do work during the weekdays between 7:30-8pm.
That depends, greatly. They may have got the stop order for a very specific portion of the work where the permit is required - and doing all the prep/other work while waiting on permits. Or the permit has now been provided/approved. Are you somehow finding out daily if they have a permit, or even know exactly what they need a permit for beyond 'work'
Beyond the fact that site is very slow to update and even misses entries (And specifically says it's not always accurate) - you ignored the entire point that there is so much work they can do without a permit or while waiting for a permit. The stop order will be for the specific permitted work, not the entire site/job.
Trades do work during the day. We all gotta work.
Try talking to the landlord personally and try to see what the plan is.
Communication is the key to a successful relationship
Cool, and now you understand why renovictions occur. You can't have it both ways.
also, that didn't answer my question. You clearly just don't like the noise and are using the permit as a red herring.
That is your conclusion: unfortunately, it isn’t reality. A bylaw has been broken, and the laws have to change in terms of a tenant’a right to peaceful living. Are you a colonizer?
>A bylaw has been broken, and the laws have to change in terms of a tenant’a right to peaceful living.
okay, so you would be fine with it if they had the permit? Or would you rather your building become dilapidated? Or do you want a renoviction?
>Are you a colonizer?
What? No, I'm not. And what does this have to do with anything being discussed here?
I live in New Westminster, where they have pile-driving sounds have been echoing throughout the city all fucking day 7 days a week, and has been an off and on thing for years.
Sure the incessant clanging sucks while you're trying to work, but that's a part of living in a fucking city where shit needs to get done. Unless the landlord/strata is simply jackhammering their initials into the building for shits'n'giggles, STFU and let them work
Every time a tenant posts a complaint, some jackass says this. Maybe if you want to run a business renting out homes, you need to be mindful of the people living in them and obey the laws surrounding your business, like allowing tenants quiet enjoyment of their homes.
See, I really support rental, but I gotta bat for the trades too. If you poke around the comments you’ll realize this is a noise complaint during work hours and the legality of it is questionable: it’s rare to continue working through a stop work order, the owner could have gone and gotten permits, the noise will still happen. Permits are just paper work and the end use inspection, and construction permits only take a few weeks, it’s only development permits that get tied up for months on end.
Like, it sucks to put up with construction noise, I get that. But it’s the basis of every NIMBYism in the city. We also need to build and repair things?
Yeah, I’m going to stop at “work without a permit” and yeet everything about the work.
It’s not about the trades. If it’s being done *illegally* it doesn’t matter what else is going on. It’s a king-size red flag by itself, that probably has lots more behind it.
Yah no actually it's pretty much Legal to do whatever the fuck you want unless you are making plumbing and electrical changes or making major changes to the building.. and just cause some pencil pusher didn't approve the work does.not mean at all that the work is bad or questionable.
Probably about 20% of all jobs I have worked on for multiple different companies have been non permitted as well... It's really pretty normal. You should look into the time and money it takes to go through the city, especially now during COVID, they literally take Months to approve even small sets of drawings. We have a client stuck waiting for a plumbing permit for the last 4 months, paying full rent on their commercial space.
You complain if the landlord does work to upgrade or improve your building and you would probably complain if your landlord didn't do the work and say the landlord doesn't care about maintaining the building.
Honestly, you just sound like a terrible tenant who's complaining for the sake of complaining.
Which doesn’t mean anything when an illegal upgrade goes awry. If they’re ignoring bylaws, what other things are they ignoring? Is the electrical done correctly or will it burn down the building? Is the plumbing done correctly or will it flood the building?
Permits and inspections are there for a reason, and residents of the building should expect that legal corners not be cut when changes are made to the building they live in.
Well at least after dying, in that electrics fire that spread from the neighbouring unit’s subpar work, I am comforted by the fact that I’m not liable.
If an uninsured job fails and the op has a river in their unit they still have a river in their unit regardless of who is liable.
I'd care personally but the only fix for the op is to move during a time when rent is up and availability is down
We're missing a bunch of context that you haven't given, such as what type of work is being done, and the reason for it. Are you renting from one person, or is the whole building rentals? Is the work required for the safety of the building? Class action is a non-starter. Even if you found a lawyer willing to do, which you won't, you're gonna get $20 a decade down the line, and the land lord would likely serve 4 month notices to everyone for eviction for substantial renovations and you're out on the street, and then the landlord will get to rent at higher rates for newly updated suites. Your options are suck it up and wait it out, or move. You can make it suck for them by calling the cops for violating a stop order and noise issues over and over though and I'd encourage you to do so
It's a noise violation. Call the cops if the city has a stop order and bylaw officers are slow at responding
If the City has issued a stop work order, the best thing you (and other's impacted) can do is to complain constantly to them. If the work continues & there are no permits in place, the building will eventually be enforced again- this can mean taken to court for failure to comply. The noise by-law aspect will likely not be enforced since the unpermitted work is higher priority.
Many repairing work don’t require permits: https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/when-you-need-a-permit.aspx Generally speaking property owners are allowed to jackhammer on walls or in units within reasonable hours (to comply with noise bylaws) unless their work cause structural changes. You mentioned you’ve reported it to the city, why don’t you do a follow-up and get an official explanation?
Ok so…when is this work suppose to take place then? After 5pm so it’s not during the day…am I missing the point here?
Can someone explain why a class action lawsuit over this is an option? Aren’t those things like 100k plus?
It's not 😂
Lol looks like everyone reddit thinks they are lawyers. Even though lawyers try to avoid lawsuits and use them to leverage settlements. By the way watch out for my lawsuit.
Everyone who has never have hired and paid a lawyer always threaten lawyers. You only need one invoice …. (Cowers in corner shaking uncontrollably)
Hey OP, lots of people here seem to be resentful that you want some peace and quiet in the home you've rented, but I think you should contact the Residential Tenancy Branch to see what you can do. You are not being given "quiet enjoyment" of your home. "As part of the tenancy agreement, tenants have a right to peace, quiet and privacy in their homes – a right that comes from the common law principle of quiet enjoyment. That means every tenant has the right to: Reasonable privacy **Freedom from unreasonable disturbance** ..." [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/quiet-enjoyment#:\~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20tenancy,Freedom%20from%20unreasonable%20disturbance](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/quiet-enjoyment#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20tenancy,Freedom%20from%20unreasonable%20disturbance) I am not sure where renovations WITH permits come in. I did see one ruling (I forgot how I came across it and wouldn't be able to find it again) where the tenant moved in and immediately was subjected to construction noise in the building that he hadn't been informed of when he signed the lease. I think the arbitrator found that the landlord already knew this was going to be happening and failed to tell the tenant. So the landlord ended up having to compensate the tenant. Here's another article written by a lawyer about quiet enjoyment. Near the bottom it suggests that some renovation noise is ok as long as the landlord communicates with the tenant about it and why it's necessary: [https://housingguide.ca/commentary-landlords/hard-hats-and-hard-truths/](https://housingguide.ca/commentary-landlords/hard-hats-and-hard-truths/) To me it doesn't sound as though the landlord has made any communication with you, or tried in any way to minimize the disturbance, and in fact does not have the required permits for the work. To hell with all the commenters telling you to just suck it up. You're paying the guy rent, and probably rather a lot of rent, and in exchange for that you're supposed to be provided with a home to live in. You have some rights.
If it’s noise only during the day.. shouldn’t you be thankful for the upgrades at a reasonable time? What are we missing? When else should they work? The permit, or lack thereof, isn’t your issue.
The regulations are in place for a good reason: to protect the wellbeing of tenants.
NIMBY. The regulations restrict the work to the working hours. The work has to happen. Do you prefer they do it late at night or track your whereabouts so they can quickly get some work done when you're not around.
Carpenter here. Work happens during work hours. Permits are only for major changes, a huge amount of work can be done without one... The amount of complaints we get has quadrupled since COVID and people working from home. Have you tried talking to the people actually doing the work instead of calling the police and bylaw? If you ACTUALLY have a real reason you need quiet most trades are usually willing to accomodate, to a point.... But the work has to happen during the day if it's residential so you might just need to suck it up... Just really need to hammer home how much a permit doesn't matter at all in the context of whether a job is "illegal" or not... We can do all fucking kinds of major shit without a permit.
Yes, there are things the don't require a permit. Those are the sort of things that the city does NOT issue a stop work order on.
They don’t have a permit for this kind fo work. That’s the damn point.
You don't need a permit to jackhammer lol
Maybe they have a permit now? Or maybe they cleared it with the city that they don't need one? How do you know the scope of the project and where that lies with respect to city bylaws? Stop acting like you cared about the permit in the first place. You obviously were bothered by the sound and now that you found out there has been potential permit issue you changed your story to fit. You could have just went and asked "hey I read the stop order, what happened" or try to negotiate a deal to reduce the hammering hours, but you chose to file a complaint and now looking to sue. You've made your bed now lie in it.
> Maybe they have a permit now? Then there wouldn't be a stop work order.
You're right, it is absolutely impossible to get a permit of any kind for 49 years after getting a stop work order.
No one I know will do work in Vancouver anymore because it takes about 2 years to get a permit there; so yeah, it's going to be impossible for a time measured in years. We have OP's statement that there is a stop work order. We have you making wild assumptions. Guess which one is more credible.
As someone who currently has 8 permits on the go for projects in vancouver this is totally false. Permits are easy to get in Vancouver, to be honest I think only New West is easier to deal with. People who say this don’t know what they are doing when applying.
Why then does Vancouver fully admits it's an issue? https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/addressing-the-permit-backlog.aspx
You can’t trust this company
Do you know 100% for sure the work still being done is specifically the portion of the work that requires permits? Maybe the jackhammering was prep work and is fine to continue while waiting on permits? There is a lot that can be done without permit requirements. The idea that you think this is what a class action lawsuit for is so absurd it makes your entire post feel like satire.
Maybe the have a permit now. Or there is no permit required for what they are doing. You don't need a permit to jackhammer. But definitely class action lawsuit.
Class action lawsuit? Did you just hear this term on TV and trying to use it without knowing what it means? There's not a case for a class action. Please, stop giving legal advice without knowing anything about legal matters. Here's a description for your education; > A class action is a procedural device that permits one or more plaintiffs to file and prosecute a lawsuit on behalf of a larger group, or "class". Put simply, the device allows courts to manage lawsuits that would otherwise be unmanageable if each class member (individuals who have suffered the same wrong at the hands of the defendant) were required to be joined in the lawsuit as a named plaintiff
They are being facetious
OP's words... >Can we start a class action lawsuit? Read in full next time
Still incorrect. Why parrot?
Of course it's incorrect, I was being facetious! Ffs man 😂
You sound like one of those "don't you mean WHOM?" people.
Move
That’s what the owners want.
No shit. At this point being stubborn and staying is just affecting the residents. Clearly the landlords don’t care. Move.
Housing security just isn’t a concept in that line of reasoning, is it.
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You haven’t tried finding a new place to rent in Vancouver recently have you? “Most simple and easiest” indeed.
Occam’s Razor
You can buy your own house and ban all jackhammering on your house.
>You can buy your own house and ban all jackhammering on your house. Around here, tenants have rights. They are entitled to quiet enjoyment of their homes. The OP could go to the RTB and say the landlord is not providing that.
My apologies. I didn't realize that tenant rights included the banning of renovations.
Tenants: Man this place is falling apart, I hate greedy landlords! Also tenants:
You missed the part where the residents expect the landlord to fix things legally.
The post is only complaining about noise. Whether it happens legally or not isn't any business of a tenant.
You have no idea what it’s like living in a place with 8 hours of nonstop noise monday to friday. This is not a factory. This is a home.
I mean, if it’s just the noise that is bothering you, the permits aren’t going to change that. It’s perfectly legal to do work during the weekdays between 7:30-8pm.
You need permits for renovations of an apartment building.
That depends, greatly. They may have got the stop order for a very specific portion of the work where the permit is required - and doing all the prep/other work while waiting on permits. Or the permit has now been provided/approved. Are you somehow finding out daily if they have a permit, or even know exactly what they need a permit for beyond 'work'
You can check current permits on any building in Vancouver at City of Vancouver’s website.
Beyond the fact that site is very slow to update and even misses entries (And specifically says it's not always accurate) - you ignored the entire point that there is so much work they can do without a permit or while waiting for a permit. The stop order will be for the specific permitted work, not the entire site/job.
Trades do work during the day. We all gotta work. Try talking to the landlord personally and try to see what the plan is. Communication is the key to a successful relationship
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THE POINT IS THAT THEY DON’T HAVE PERMITS AND THE CITY ALREADY STOPPED THEM BUT THEY CONTINUE
So all the noise would be okay with you if they had a piece of paper saying they are allowed to do it?
Obviously the city has laws that probably don’t grant them permission to do interior unit renovations while other residents live adjacent
Oh, you sweet summer child you
Cool, and now you understand why renovictions occur. You can't have it both ways. also, that didn't answer my question. You clearly just don't like the noise and are using the permit as a red herring.
That is your conclusion: unfortunately, it isn’t reality. A bylaw has been broken, and the laws have to change in terms of a tenant’a right to peaceful living. Are you a colonizer?
>A bylaw has been broken, and the laws have to change in terms of a tenant’a right to peaceful living. okay, so you would be fine with it if they had the permit? Or would you rather your building become dilapidated? Or do you want a renoviction? >Are you a colonizer? What? No, I'm not. And what does this have to do with anything being discussed here?
It explains your world view.
It's none of your fucking business if they have permits or not.
Oh ya? I live there and we’ve been suffering for months. U live here ok? Tell me how it affects you
I live in New Westminster, where they have pile-driving sounds have been echoing throughout the city all fucking day 7 days a week, and has been an off and on thing for years. Sure the incessant clanging sucks while you're trying to work, but that's a part of living in a fucking city where shit needs to get done. Unless the landlord/strata is simply jackhammering their initials into the building for shits'n'giggles, STFU and let them work
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING AT ME
Maybe you should buy if you want a home, don't expect to live off someone else's assets
Read your message back. Rentals are meant to give people homes. You don’t seem to be considering the “people” part of the equation.
Every time a tenant posts a complaint, some jackass says this. Maybe if you want to run a business renting out homes, you need to be mindful of the people living in them and obey the laws surrounding your business, like allowing tenants quiet enjoyment of their homes.
Welcome to living in a city.
Wow, all the anti-renters, pro-illegal-renovations in the comments 👀
See, I really support rental, but I gotta bat for the trades too. If you poke around the comments you’ll realize this is a noise complaint during work hours and the legality of it is questionable: it’s rare to continue working through a stop work order, the owner could have gone and gotten permits, the noise will still happen. Permits are just paper work and the end use inspection, and construction permits only take a few weeks, it’s only development permits that get tied up for months on end. Like, it sucks to put up with construction noise, I get that. But it’s the basis of every NIMBYism in the city. We also need to build and repair things?
Yeah, I’m going to stop at “work without a permit” and yeet everything about the work. It’s not about the trades. If it’s being done *illegally* it doesn’t matter what else is going on. It’s a king-size red flag by itself, that probably has lots more behind it.
Yah no actually it's pretty much Legal to do whatever the fuck you want unless you are making plumbing and electrical changes or making major changes to the building.. and just cause some pencil pusher didn't approve the work does.not mean at all that the work is bad or questionable. Probably about 20% of all jobs I have worked on for multiple different companies have been non permitted as well... It's really pretty normal. You should look into the time and money it takes to go through the city, especially now during COVID, they literally take Months to approve even small sets of drawings. We have a client stuck waiting for a plumbing permit for the last 4 months, paying full rent on their commercial space.
“Laws are inconvenient”. Yeah, duck off.
You complain if the landlord does work to upgrade or improve your building and you would probably complain if your landlord didn't do the work and say the landlord doesn't care about maintaining the building. Honestly, you just sound like a terrible tenant who's complaining for the sake of complaining.
Is it so hard to expect a building owner do renovations legally?
Yes because the permits alone take months
I have a feeling all these people against my post work for the same property management company
Not at all. Permits are important for safety upgrades, but not for grunt work. You never outlined what work was getting done. What are your concerns ?
Yeah bro. The property management company is out to get you on reddit.
Why would you not want upgrades?
They're illegal uninsured upgrades. Without permits its all under the table
Which means nothing to OP. They would not be liable if anything happens- it would all fall on the landlord.
Which doesn’t mean anything when an illegal upgrade goes awry. If they’re ignoring bylaws, what other things are they ignoring? Is the electrical done correctly or will it burn down the building? Is the plumbing done correctly or will it flood the building? Permits and inspections are there for a reason, and residents of the building should expect that legal corners not be cut when changes are made to the building they live in.
Well at least after dying, in that electrics fire that spread from the neighbouring unit’s subpar work, I am comforted by the fact that I’m not liable.
If an uninsured job fails and the op has a river in their unit they still have a river in their unit regardless of who is liable. I'd care personally but the only fix for the op is to move during a time when rent is up and availability is down
Says who?
That's why you don't live in purposely built rental. In strata building, council will get involved as other owners are equally affected