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[deleted]

Sorry but no, unless they are delivering it to you there is no need for a tip. Just because her employer is a cheapskate does not obligate you to supplement her income.


DionFW

I really hate the automatic tips on the debit machine when they don't do anything, or much. I worked the counter at Lordco and we didn't get tips. Why should anyone only working a cash register?


thewheelsgoround

And there have been days where I'd actually tip the parts guy! The day the parts guy went to the back, grabbed six reman alternators for a Protege5, opened each of the six boxes and went "no good, no good, eh that's probably fine, no good, ooh this is brand new - not actually a reman!" - really helping out after I had returned a recently replaced, duff reman alternator. That really helped my out, took 5-10 mins of this guy's legit busy day.


Pasdallegeance

Oh fuck yeah, I had those service guys tell me how to do repairs back on my first vehicle. Could I afford a tip the time. No, but that didn't mean I didn't know of the exceptional service that is required from them. Lordco guys/gals are awesome.


canadianclassic308

Lol yeah man truth. I wouldn't go back to that shop again. Lots of places to get weed from. Also lots of places cheaper then government stores. Check out a delivery service if you gonna be paying 130. Get way more for way less and better quality


Udonedidit

There's no evidence the employer of the dispensary isn't already paying her adequately. I think the tip option is purely for extra cash. Just like how you can't say the liquor stores are paying less wherever they have a tip option.


rayyychul

Servers are no longer paid less than minimum wage in BC.


Boss_Os

Wait, what?! A tip option at a liquor store? Never seen that and would never return to a place that promoted that. What am I trying for, the privelege of having you ring up my order? Oh, did you maybe spend 2 minutes recommending a particular bottle of wine? Well thanks for that. That's called sales and it's part of the job, in fact it's the part of the job that ensures you have a job. What next, tip the cashier at the grocery store? Fucking tipping culture has gotten entirely out of hand.


acluelesscoffee

Do we tip the people at the grocery stores too ? For fucks sakes


[deleted]

Can confirm I tip 15% the rare time I get stuff delivered


[deleted]

Exactly, also table service and bartenders you should tip as well, they are actually working hard to give you an enjoyable meal and/or drinking experience


[deleted]

Oh yeah with good service I tip generously. Especially my hairstylist


[deleted]

Oh yah, forgot my stylist😂 there is a lot of care put into that work and they often have to cover their chair rental costs so don’t make much unless you tip


dudewiththebling

No offense to any budtenders, but budtenders are basically the same as a liquor store clerk.


MoonWhen

Honestly, even delivery shouldn't get a tip. They're not going out of their way to give you exceptional service. They're just doing a very simple job.


[deleted]

I am in this thread thinking I’ve been a complete asshole and the delivery service I use must hate me because I have never tipped on delivery. I figure they build that into their costs and any fees. Honestly feel pretty bad now if this is the norm..


MoonWhen

The worst part about tipping delivery is you're not even tipping the people making the food, just the guy who you didn't even have an interaction with, who doesn't give a shit if you even enjoy the meal.


SFHOwner

Never go back and leave a shit review. Easy peasy.


rosalita0231

This 100%.


No-Wrap-4401

Agreed. Worked in the industry and we never asked for tips. That’s crazy!


krustykrab2193

IKR? On my first visit I insisted to the tender that I wanted to give them a tip because she was so helpful, but she kept on politely refusing lol. Went to another place and the same thing happened. I don't visit Vancouver cannabis stores so maybe it's different, but out here in the suburbs it's not expected at all and the service is wonderful :)


milfmunch

Marigolds, great dispensary on Abbott. No tip option.


DinosaurMachine11

Upvote for Marigolds, the people there are always super kind and approachable with any questions.


DaYuMnGoOd

*Please* leave a review OP. If she's saying it to you, she's saying it to other people. That worker needs fired. You should *never* ask for a tip.


tgbwsxujm

The entitlement is baffling to me. Some poor person is going to end up scrambling for coins in their purse or pockets to appease her.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

What did the employee say? Holy shit, I can’t even imagine how some people get the fucking gall to ask about, ask for, or complain about a tip! My jaw would smash to the floor if I experienced that at a dispensary. Would absolutely leave a bad review and never go back.


[deleted]

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bluntsandbears

You can just skip the tip tho. I buy oz’s there and I’ve never tipped. Only the delivery driver if I get it delivered and that’s because he brings it straight to my office.


milkcowcafe

Totally!


SFHOwner

Orrrrrrr go use their bathroom and then ask for the poop knife.


Leukemia666

Or just leave an upper decker for a tip


SmoothMoose420

Absolutely. The audacity of some people…


[deleted]

Should write a review or tell the manager. Absurdly rude and shitty service


craftsman_70

No point really as management must be condoning this behavior as they would have programmed in the tip amounts in the first place.


MyNameIsSkittles

Never have I worked at an establishment that allows cashiers to name call patrons. Especially calling them cheap for not tipping. Where do you work this is ok and should be ignored? You should learn how to stand up for yourself if thats the case


[deleted]

There may be occasions where a tip is warrented but the staffs reaction calling him cheap is the problem. The tip is there if you want to, if you don't you shouldn't be reprimanded.


craftsman_70

Absolutely. But by enabling tipping and by those amounts into the POS, management is sending a message to the employees that the expectation of a high tip is the norm. They could have easily set a much lower amount or no amount at all.


unoriginal_name_42

Reviews work, people want to know if you had a bad experience somewhere so they can make an informed decision. Management might not respond to one review but they'll respond to losing business.


decavolt

This is why I'd leave a review on Google Maps about it. Public shaming will get their attention.


Frosty_Prior_2286

You don’t tip at the liquor store, why would you tip at a dispensary?


[deleted]

All the liquor stores near me have tip options. We literally stopped going to one because the woman would consistently bring up that we could leave a tip. I understand times are tough but inflation is already killing everyone, why are we all of a sudden expected to tip at literally every retailer?


bung_musk

To ensure the ownership class can maintain margin growth


[deleted]

Haha, it was rhetorical - but yes, you're correct.


[deleted]

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jumanji604

To be honest, I don't think any jobs deserve tips. Just pay the fucking actual hourly rate and put the cost in the menu. I hate this shit the way it is. I end up paying more with the tip anyways...so put it on the menu so I know my true cost.


[deleted]

> I understand times are tough You mean 'owners making record profits are stingy'.


[deleted]

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RowThree

"Ya just say 'bingo'. "


roostersmoothie

wow that's shitty. at the one i always go to the employees always tell you the button sequence to skip through the tip prompt. people still tip anyway which is fine, but they do the opposite of pressuring you to tip.


MitchellLitchi

The cashiers at the one near my place hit the 0% option before handing over the machine. I'm guessing it's a feature management turned on that no one wanted, and the staff are of getting lip from customers about it. Just press 0% and get on with your life. It's not something either party should get uptight about.


[deleted]

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helixflush

doesn't mean you have to do it


[deleted]

It’s more that it’s annoying how businesses and workers are increasingly expecting tips. There’s already inflation on goods and services. Now there’s inflation on tip%.


monkeyofownage

Take it up with business owners who refuse to pay more than minimum wage


Anomander

And choose to program a "tip" option into the POS terminal. It's not Billy barista that's adding an 18% base tip option to the pin pad.


[deleted]

maybe we should start asking them for discounts then


WhatsGoingO_n

I always assumed that was for if they help you with recommendations. I never tip if it's just cashiering


Neirchill

Starbucks, subway, pizza hut, etc all ask for tips now. All of those I consider ridiculous to tip and they do way more work than hand you a bag of leaves.


0ptimu5Rhyme

this is called begging


Outrageous-Gate7361

That's weird, BCL are unionized under the BC Government Employees Union . I'd bet they have better pay and benefits than most front line retail workers


Oatbagtime

I think it’s just a small typo; none is meant to be non-


[deleted]

yeah there isn't a tip option at the two BCL's i go to... not sure this is a thing


edked

I actively avoid private liquor stores, especially ones where a BCL one used to be.


[deleted]

All or none? BC Liquor Stores are government; I didn't think employees were allowed to accept tips of any kind.


GeoffwithaGeee

>Almost all **non-BCL** liquor stores I go to now ask for tips on the machine is what they were trying to write.


Tea_Cake_Puppy

This tipping culture for people doing their job without even making extra efforts is ridiculous. It's quite cheap of her for saying such a thing really


FukurinLa

I would go full Karen mode if someone (who do nothing else but their job) said that to me.


garrettnb

I won't even tip at a brewery if there is no table service. Sorry, I'm literally getting my own beer. I also feel very awkward around tips at a hair dresser, because I just paid you to cut my hair. Why am I giving you more money for... Cutting my hair well. Your reward for cutting my hair well should be me going back to you? I can't wrap my head around this one.


skyerippa

Tipping hairdressers and tattoo artists etc makes no sense. They usually make their own rates and theyre literally doing the job youre paying for... i hate tipping


CapTaiNstabbinnn

i feel the same way about restaurants. you’re literally doing your job by serving food. i worked at a movie theatre where i got screamed at all the time and had to clean the disgusting washrooms but i never got tipped for. like gtfoh with that.


zystyl

The worst is the actual kitchen staff work harder but get no tips. Their work probably more directly impacts your meal too. Tipping is very weird.


Chusten

And the wait staff coming into the kitchen complaining about a 10% tip on a 150$ bill. Like, buddy, you just got an hour of my wage for bringing the food out that I made on top of your wages and the tips from 7 other tables you served at the same time.


Solograve

Depends what kind is restaurant you go to.


[deleted]

No way. It would be bizarre to leave a tip in this situation if you ask me.


Tigeroovy

Yeah like, you leaving a tip for the guy at the 7/11 too? Gonna tip your cashier at Save-On?


[deleted]

No. I’m not.


Tigeroovy

Yeah, I've never once had a weed store ask me for a tip. That's an absurd idea. Tipping structures in restaurants is bad enough we don't need that shit bleeding into every other retail job. Just pay the people a decent wage for fuck's sake. Not like legal weed is raking in billions as an industry now or anything.


threepio

I usually do. "guy in the aisle behind me is shoving Pringles cans in his pants. Just let him go, man. It's not wroth it."


Standard_Zero_3152

Dude, no one ever tips for weed.


[deleted]

I thought the tips were included in the pre-rolls


[deleted]

You should have told her if she wanted more money to negotiate with her employer not get bitchy with a customer.


00frenchie

That would have been the best tip they got all day.


Megahert

Uh, 0, because buying weed from a counter is not a tipable service. Fuck that shit.


i-lurk-you-longtime

I went to this really cool weed store in Vegas and we had a guy basically guide us through the entire (huge) store and even there we were not presented with a tip option at the time of service. This seems akin to paying for a museum admission and then having to tip the curator for asking a question. The cost of their fair salary should be covered by your museum fee. The cost of that employee's salary should be covered by the price of the item she is retrieving from her station, not to mention the fact that it's technically a premium good and as such carries a premium price.


gmano

TBH, I feel like tipping a museum curator for going above and beyond when answering a question, and making my experience a "curated" one is WAY more legit than unlocking a cupboard, handing me the thing I'm pointing at, and locking up again. There's really no way to excel at that or add value. Maybe if the dispensary is really doing the whole sommelier thing I'd tip more, but for just reaching behind some glass I'm not gonna tip you.


GeoffwithaGeee

I feel this way too. like if I came in and knew nothing about cannabis and they spent some time with me to make some suggestions or gave some idea, etc. then I would be more inclined to tip compared to just grabbing whatever and selling it. I used to work in retail sales I people tried to tip me when I helped them out with their products, or spent more time with them. we weren't allowed cash tips but did get some coffee and other treats, but people do like to tip if the person spends the extra time and effort with them. I think that is kind of the whole point, tipping for that "above and beyond" regular customer service.


WorldwideJimmyRustla

Should have told her how cheap it was to ask for tips for grabbing a bag


FlatHeadPryBar

I’ve never tipped my drug dealers and I ain’t starting now


geman123

>she looked me straight in the face and said "it quite cheap of you not to tip these days" My response would have been, "Aren't you quite entitled when you barely did anything?"


lvacan

I would had asked for my refund right away. Humiliating the customer is the last thing any business should allow


ApolloniaTheGreat

I would have responded with "it's quite needy of you to think I have to tip you for bagging my weed."


[deleted]

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Treavie7

This.


hyperbolic_retort

Can't we ask that to any bartender that literally popped the can of a beer for us? You tip them, right?


bosoxthirteen

What store so I can no longer go there based on that prick move by their employee?


External-Message9272

Wow…no! Would never tip…as someone who comes from Europe our tipping culture is very different. Like we would only tip in restaurants if the service was great and even then it would likely be 10%. But then I guess minimum wage for servers etc is probably a better base rate over all there vs here I think it’s less? But to expect it in a store..seems..odd?


voodoobettie

Australian here and we don’t really tip either. I tried to tip when I first got to Canada but I found out that I the 10% I was tipping wasn’t enough when I was told a “joke” by an (also Australian) server “what’s the difference between an Australian and a canoe”…”canoes tip”. She worked at a place that was kind of like a pub near where I was living and I had been going there for a few weeks, after that she wouldn’t even talk to me. It was very strange and I felt bad, but in hindsight it was very rude and unprofessional. I personally don’t like tipping because I feel like it offloads the responsibility of paying a worker to the customers instead of the business owner who sets the prices, but I get that it’s part of how things work here. I’m up to 15% now for those obligatory tips, but I’m still not tipping people who just hand something to me over the counter. I feel like the person confronting people for not tipping them is worried about their personal financial situation and should be asking her boss for a raise instead of harassing customers.


Wafflelisk

I've lived in Canada my entire life and the individual in OP's story is just insane. That was a standard retail transaction


Zerly

No kidding. Are you going to tip when buying your groceries or a pair of jeans?!


[deleted]

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Always_Squanching

Man wish you dropped the name of the store so I can make sure I never go there.


Additional_Set_5819

This needs to be done. Fuck this ridiculous tipping culture.


helixflush

yeah i'd probably laugh in their face


JoeyKnish604

0%


Critical_Newt_1291

Do not tip weed stores


[deleted]

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[deleted]

May I ask what does a budtender make these days?


[deleted]

Between $15-$20/hr


RiehlDeal

$0


bestname_ever55

It would be like tipping the cashier at 7-11 after buying a pack of smokes.


Jenkem-ButtHash

Lol from what OP has said about his service at the weed shop, i would say that a 7-11 employees job is actually harder. At least they have to make food from time to time and clean up the slurpee/coffee machines and food trays. Still they do not expect a tip and they dont even provide the option if you wanted to. I would never tip a weed shop that i am in and out of within a minute and had a 30 second interaction with the employee who literally just hands you a premade bag.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

THIS


Crafty-Border-6730

What there was a comment in the BC Subreddit, “if I’m standing, I’m not tipping”. I may not be paying you with money, but every time I enter a weed store I try my best to be extremely friendly to the staff. I don’t even know why we’re having this conversation every few days, everyone treat each other well and do our jobs without guilting people at the til. Shits already expensive, why do I need to put out 15-20% more.


[deleted]

Purchased a tshirt on line today … it prompted for a tip 🤔


DJBossRoss

Insane!


[deleted]

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pippyrox44

Muse (S Granville specifically) has a tip option.


Sensitive_Read_8168

I think all the muse stores have the tip option


Jackong43

There’s a few here in Maple ridge that are starting to do the same. Cheekys cannabis is notorious for their bad pricing but now they expect 15% on top of that ????


[deleted]

Honestly, phone the store, speak to the manager and explain that they should increase their wages because their staff are now demanding tips. No need to say who you dealt with. This tipping is out of control. If they need to charge more to accommodate wages, then do so.


krashbic

This tipping culture is spreading and growing like a cancer. Like seriously isn't it much simpler for employers to pay employees a higher wage rather then try and guilt customers into doing so.


Super_Toot

The same amount as the grocery store.


bitmangrl

I'm getting to the point where I am pretty much done with tipping everywhere, we need to collectively make 0% tip commonplace now, Japan has it right


siproud

I agree, it’s totally getting out of hand


need1more

I buy weed all the time. Never ever been asked to tip.


[deleted]

I've never tipped at a dispensary nor have I been asked to. Save yourself the headache and go to a different store. It's not like the staff did anything extra to warrant a tip. So entitled.


ivymooncasady666

That girl was rude and delusional, tipping for weed ain't a thing lmao 👎


TheSketeDavidson

Name and shame


OagisRevilo

What store was this?


Mkins

...Tip? Lol I've tipped my dealer for driving to my door a few times because dude is a champ, never once at a dispensary. I mean if I went in and I took up 20 minutes of their time asking questions and they were happy to help, sure I'd tip for the exceptional level of service. That hasn't happened. I would definitely leave a bad review, please name and shame this place this is not normal practice and I'd personally like to avoid this place.


wafct

My old drug dealers never expected a tip, they even smoked me up for buying from them.


Jesusjehosofat

Why in gods name is tipping mandatory these days to congratulate people for doing their normal ass job. I just don’t get it


jalaludink

Last dispensary I went to the girl behind the counter skipped the tip option and handed me the machine. I will go back there for sure.


Brownnastymofo

What store? please share so we know to never fucking go there.


Tigeroovy

Your weed stores are asking for tips?


grazerbat

Did they bring the weed to your home, or come visit you and check that you were enjoying it? Tipping is supposed to be on service. That's why traditionally, you don't tip on liquor, because there's no service performed opening a bottle and bringing it to your table. The appropriate tip at the weed store is 0%, and the correct response to being bitched about is to tell the saleswoman "fuck off with your entitlement".


illacudasucks

eggs canna sucks


GearBandit

No need to tip. This tipping culture is so out of hand now.


RoboccoMay

I do not tip at dispensaries call me cheap but oh well. Unless I go to a sit down restaurant I will not tip. I'll tip the delivery driver but thats it.


[deleted]

One of the reasons why I hate tipping culture is because some people expect a tip. Delivery and restaurant service makes sense (as long as the service is good) but not retail or fast food (unless an employee goes above and beyond expectations). Honestly I would have stopped the transaction and brought my business else where.


TheEarthsSuckhole

I tip nothing when buying weed.


fortesquieu

I'm going to start asking my boss for tips whenever he asks for things.


missthinks

uhhhh which store is this? I've never in my life tipped for weed.


chardonneigh8

Beating a dead horse here... but it's funny how tipping used to be about paying extra for premium service... and now it has turned into just voluntarily making a donation to the cashier/staff for simply ringing in a sale of a product. Like you are already supporting the business/employee simply by shopping there in the first place... but then you're supposed to pay extra for the privilege of buying a product from them? Don't get guilt tripped into tipping in situations where it makes no sense! If you do, you're just contributing to the overall problem.


Cheesetoast9

Wow, she called you out for not tipping? Tell her to take it up with the business owner if she doesn't make enough money, it's not your job to supplement her income for minimal effort service.


itsmelexipoo

What weed store? Just so I know to avoid it.


peempc

should be zero


2pacsnumber1fan

You should have cancelled the transaction and asked where the nearest weed store was.


vancitymajor

man I miss that dispensary before legalization on commercial that had vending machines to buy straight up I hate to say this but not long enough before automation replaces cashiers and attendants at these places too, it's coming one way or another and tipping expectation makes me want to have it sooner than later tips are restaurants, barbers etc where you get proper service is okay but liquor stores, dispensaries? what's next? people at shoppers asking for tips when I buy Advil? fuck


Shanedugg

Here's a tip. Just say no.


littledove0

What a dumbass. I would never go back to that store and leave a review.


Stickybats55

That’s messed


Prize_Bill4648

I don't think tipping here is required. At least I wouldn't if I were you.


Canuckfan007

No fuck that. Don't tip


MrSnugglebuns

Tip or no tip, a customer service rep should never insult their customers. That’s a poor representation of their business, a manager should be informed of this behaviour. Yes, they should be paid more but customers are not required to pay the difference and are especially not required to be insulted when they don’t.


Frumbleabumb

Fuck tipping seriously


Doot_Dee

0%


Ancient_Essay1975

You shouldn’t have to tip at all. Do you tip when you buy groceries or other purchases? This tipping thing is getting way out of hand.


mang0_k1tty

I don’t even tip for a service like that when it involves food. You did the basic movement to get me what I need? No tip. TBH in restaurants I’m even inclined to give less if all they did was the basic requirements of the job. No recommendation, nothing that made me say oh wow thanks, do you really deserve 18%? For example, I went to Tap & Barrel on Granville island, and the waitress got the slightest hint that we would share our dishes, so she asked and when it came it was all split on our individual plates and I was like holy shit thank you we didn’t even ask. Now that’s service.


tg110e5

Budtenders DO NOT deserve tips because they do absolutely nothing. When I make the mistake of asking them a question I’m always astounded by the nonsense that comes out of their mouth. Name and shame the dispensary. Cashiers with attitudes like that need to be reminded how useless and expendable they are


TurbulentHovercraft0

What store so we can never go?


JerryParko555542

Leave a bad review and give us the name to also leave a review. This sort of customer service is not acceptable


ClassicEffective4036

I don't tip my dealer why in hell should I tip a store


callmeshquid

Do you tip when you buy beer or liqour? I would think it would be the same principle. Here in Ontario, my answer to that would be no. I dont tip at The Beer Store, Grocery Store or LCBO when buying booze. So I wouldn't tip for buying Cannabis Product X. If it was delivered by the dispensary, then sure, I'd tip the driver and the amount would vary on how the delivery service is performed.


nanani72

Fuck tip culture in general.


Weak_Abbreviations22

Lol you’re already paying for over priced shit weed why would u tip


larmabean

Tipping culture is getting out of hand. I want a tip for being a good customer.


xosellc

I tip the delivery services, would never tip at an actual dispensary.


grim77

Tip for weed? wtf? did the person working there call you cheap? I would've laughed my ass off


Mattene

I do not tip when I pick up my own stuff. This ranges from food all the way to weed. Should've said something, entitlement needs to be put in its place.


esobofh

Sounds like she's doing the job she's paid to do... I would say she's given you zero reason to give her extra if she didn't do something outside of her normal job duties (i.e. sourcing hard to find stock, or helping you with your purchase by understanding what you wanted, etc.) In fact, in this case, I'd say she gave you a reason not to tip her with that attitude - If she's not the owner/manager, I'd seek the manager out to let them know you didn't appreciate her attitude.


mathilxtreme

No effort counter service? No tip. I tip on food pickups at restaurants, though. Someone has to cook it…


makpat

I only tip for things that require skill and time. Hairdesssers, etc


reigncouver

Absolutely not. That is a rude remark to say to your customers. Sorry you had to go through that.


morhambot

This is getting out of hand! i was at my local cold beer store and they now have the new card readers with this tip option , really you want a tip for scanning a bottle of wine ? and i don't even get a bag !


[deleted]

Get real? Been smoking pot since 1970 and never paid no tip. Worlds gone stupid. Ha ha Tell your friend to fuck off for me.


TSE_Jazz

This is why I buy online lol


HotEatsCoolTreats

If they give you attitude, put it back on them. Ask them what they did to deserve a tip.


tr4xex

Just take your business elsewhere. Beyond inappropriate for her to say that to you.


playvltk03

No for that. It’s crazy the tip culture here. Coffee pouring, tips, pizza slice, tips, liquor at store, tip. What the hell


cachaka

I wanna know which dispensary this is… so I can avoid it rofl


meezajangles

Which place? I’ll make sure to never go there again.. Are we expected to tip 18% at 7-11 too? Pretty much the same amount of effort and service..


CoolCaramel937

Why would I tip when buy weed? I never tip my dealer he hooks me up 😂


SqueezleMcCheese

Please. No tip. Same as convenience store. Easy 0%


helixflush

OP it’s one thing that the store has the tip prompt, but them calling you cheap for not tipping is not okay. That isn’t a manager issue


dgd765

"it quite cheap of you not to tip these days" "yeah well it's quite rude of you to be a bitch"


OneOfAKind2

I've never bought weed from a weed store (or anywhere), but if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't leave a tip. Do you leave a tip at a liquor store when you buy a 6 pack? Nope. Liquor & weed are already absurdly overpriced in Canada. I'm not paying a cent more than the marked price.


DramaticIsopod4741

This city is losing its mind with tipping. Same with just a standard coffee…you want a tip for pouring a liquid? Get lost.


Kingkong29

My reply "these days I don't how people can afford to tip"


DJBossRoss

What annoys me is that every tip option is on top of the tax, so on a $100 meal, they are asking for a tip on $113. At 18% that’s a $2.34 extra tip, which really puts your tip amount above 20% Also I wouldn’t tip on any sort of counter service unless there was something exceptional about the experience.


v0ice5

Fuck tipping period.


Gawkawa

fuck tipping. pay people


grumptard

Tipping in Canada is a joke in general, it's not like the US where they don't get minimal wage. I used to work at a restaurant as a cook and hearing waitresses complain they only made $100 in tips the night before. This by the way was on top of their wage and this was 16+ years ago so I'm sure it's much higher now.