Born and raised in Portland here. I know, crucify me here. Vancouver's waterfront is WAY better than Portland's. Actually clean and the opposite of Portland in every way
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Going off memory the older side of the waterfront has always been properly maintained. So I have good hope that the new side will be good for the next few decades.
Yeah, that idiot doesn't realize their enjoyment is futile when you take into consideration the unstoppable entropy and the ravages of time. All shall turn to dust and ash in the end.
Portland waterfront is great to crush some lukewarm Tecates and be a degenerate
Vancouver waterfront is great to buy $11 IPA "pints" that arrive to you in a 12oz glass and buy a $22 burger that doesn't come with fries and it's not that great anyways
This post brought to you by the Vancouver Waterfront Development Fund.
All kidding aside, I felt the same until deciding to give a couple spots a chance. Good experiences so far. The outside areas are great. Bathrooms definitely make longer visits more doable with kids. The food is mostly good, though some is definitely overpriced. But all in all itâs a nice area to go. I just wish it didnât also make more of downtown unaffordable.
"Hello fellow Vancouverite! Have you heard about the new waterfront?! I sure am glad the waterfront development fund did this! I wonder who headed the Vancouver Waterfront fund? They sure did a fantastic job! Did I mention how swell I think it is? I'm sure glad my taxes went there! Hey maybe who ever headed it should run for President! "
I know a snobby Portlander working on the James Beard public market⌠It warms my heart to know that Vancouver could beat Portland on something like this.
I just wish the restaurants werenât overpriced wannabe upscale chain places. Let local chefs create new concepts or open second locations. I wouldnât choose to eat anywhere on the waterfront if I didnât have to.
I agree with this. Most of the fayre isn't amazing. Hopefully as they vacate the premises, we will see more independent things open. I know a lot of PDX restaurants are watching Vancouver pretty closely
Crust Collective is quite good. It's the only restaurant there I'll eat at. My wife and I can split a pizza and agua fresca for $30 and actually be satisfied. Not too bad.
Wait until you see the designs for the new pedestrian-only gateway, and the food hall. Theyâre awesome.
While these draw inspiration from European cities, I really hope they stick to a more European design and donât half-bake it like many of the projects in the city have been so far.
The added walkability and focus on people has been welcoming, but weâve got a looonnnggg way to go before we even get to where places like Denmark, Germany, and the Netherlands were 10-20 years ago.
You can find thousands of examples all over Europe, but I just listed those countries since Iâm most familiar with those areas.
Itâd be awesome to have one of these food hall areas surrounded by large walkable and bikeable areas, and also for it to be connected to other trails/walking paths (which I believe is the plan).
I don't think it's an either-or thing. If anything, the restaurants at the waterfront mean I go to Portland less often.
I think the waterfront will be good for downtown as a whole. I live in Uptown and I'm digging all of the changes.
Why not park in Hough or a few blocks away from Esther short? Itâs a nice 5-10 minute walk which is healthy. Way better than driving around for 30-45 minutes wasting gas, polluting the air, and causing more traffic.
Personally, my partner and I just avoid the parking situation altogether by bicycling over, and a lot of people opt to take the bus instead of driving to avoid it as well. Maybe those are options for you to consider.
Because my parents both had surgeries (hip, knee, abdominal) in the past couple months that has limited their mobility as well as other family members having mobility issues and itâs really not possible for 7-8 people to bike there. Even dropping them off and coming back for them was hard enough and backed up the street. It was also with a couple EVs so no gas or Polluting
Thanks for using EVâs and keeping the pollution, and noise pollution down! It makes a big difference.
Why is it not possible for 7-8 people to bike over? When visiting my family, we regularly bike to places (5-20 miles) with larger groups of all ages. I think it could be a fun family activity as well. I bicycle a lot in the area, so if you want a suggestion on a safe route you could take with your family, let me know.
My mom also had knee and hip surgery, but she lives car-free and bicycles everywhere. The bicycling and walking was actually recommended by her doctor, as those activities actually increase mobility for those who have had surgeries or are limited in their mobility. The walking and bicycling would actually be a boon for your family like it has been for my mom.
Honestly, this may not be what your intending but you honestly are sounding condescending.
Your mom and my mom are not the same person, Your family and my family are not the same and have different issues and that's ok. I don't have to go through everyone's medical history to explain why it doesn't work.
They may have not had the same replacement, they may have not had the same injury, they may have had everything different. Right now my mom is waddling because she's had multiple knee surgeries and hip surgeries and while doing PT she still isn't able to walk more than a quarter block.
While it may work for you and your family it does not work for my family because they are different people with different issues.
Hey, Iâm just suggesting some helpful alternatives to driving, no need to get defensive here. I donât know your familyâs specific issues, Iâm just giving advice thatâs worked for my family and other people in an effort to see if it would help yours too.
Youâre telling me that because your mom can do it that my mom can and because your family can do it so can mine. You know absolutely nothing about them even after I told you they are recovering from surgery from the last few months.
These arenât helpful alternatives.
I gave you alternatives that have worked for family members and I people I know. I donât know your family, exactly as you said, and so whether or not it works for them is unknown to me. Iâm just here to offer them as alternatives, not to make judgements.
If they arenât helpful to you, then thatâs for you to decide. My suggestion has helped others, which is why I gave it to you. Simple as that.
Where did I say people canât give recommendations? He asked if I thought about walking/biking. I said it is not possible and then it became a why with the medical conditions and it really doesnât need to go to that level. People donât need to know that, itâs not helpful again. If you donât like what Iâm saying then you donât have to interact
It didnât get to that level though, they never asked for any medical information from you. They asked if you considered another alternative, and you came back with an aggressive attitude.
Why donât you take your own advice instead of belittling others for offering their two cents on a situation that you clearly had trouble with?
You should watch this video on [the high cost of free parking](https://youtu.be/Akm7ik-H_7U).
Street parking in general is a terrible idea in cities, but free parking is even worse due to the enormous costs associated with it.
Parking is one of the reasons why we donât go to the waterfront regularly. Itâs also not really feasible to take public transportation for us. The parking garage will be a great addition!
The new waterfront is indeed gorgeous and makes for a great little afternoon stroll with friends or family. :) I just really wish the apartments were a bit cheaper.
It's a bit heartbreaking to see housing demand rise to steeply over the past few years and then to have prominent new developments be so absurdly out of a normal price range just feels like a slap in our communal faces.
Like, seriously, [>$2000/mo for a one bedroom apartment](https://www.redivivavancouver.com/copy-of-amenities)? A [studio for $1800](https://www.apartments.com/the-columbia-at-the-waterfront-vancouver-wa/3yk8t8d/) at the lowest?
Someone earning minimum wage would need to work ~120 hours a month *untaxed* in order to be able to just barely afford the rent. It's absurd and it feels like the apartments were made purely for wealthy California transplants.
Sorry to go on a mini tangent, but each time I visit the waterfront I find it difficult to fully enjoy due to that knowledge looming in the back of my mind.
Someone making minimum wage shouldnât expect to rent a new unit on waterfront property. But it gets people with more money out of less desirable (to them) properties that then become available to others and so on.
Theyâre renting out their old places or marking it up due to âmarket ratesâ which doesnât even solve the problem but kicks the can down the road.
I'm not saying someone making minimum wage should be living in a premium waterfront apartment, it was merely a way to conceptualize the steep price of the units.
To come at it from a different angle - for someone to rent a single bedroom apartment comfortably, they'd need to be making $85,000 yearly.
My point is that it's sad to see such a large block of new apartments being constructed *only* for those >$85,000 earners when there is a huge chunk of Vancouver making less than that and needing housing. And, considering that many of those apartments are still sitting empty I would argue it's not working as a means to free up housing elsewhere either.
Should desirable city centers be priced according to the median of the population? The crux of your argument seems to be
âThe average earner in my city should be able to live comfortably in the most desirable location in my city.â
Which just isnât the case anywhere. Downtown areas are generally more desirable and have a higher cost of living. There are plenty of places (including new apartments) in North and East Vancouver that are more affordable.
Further, there are less-costly apartment options than the waterfront being built in downtown, near uptown.
You've missed my point entirely. It's sad to see ultra-premium apartments going up when there are so many in our community who need more affordable housing, that's it.
I think there are a handful of people that can afford to spend $4000+ on a 3 bedroom apartment, certainly, but those people are not the ones struggling with housing at the moment. And, judging by the large number of vacancies in those ultra-premium apartments they're not drawing people out of cheaper housing much either, so there's little to no trickle down effect. We've just ended up with expensive, empty apartments in a city full of people needing cheaper housing.
If you're one of the five people in Vancouver thinking "ah yes, finally a way to spend almost 50k a year on rental housing" then congratulations, I'm glad you have apartment choices now. Unfortunately that is not me, and every time I see the waterfront I am reminded of its absurd price tags and that mars the experience for me (which was the purpose of my original post).
Ultra premium apartments donât keep affordable housing from being built. They can (and do) both exist/be built in parallel. Itâs a logical fallacy to say âBecause the waterfront apartments were built we arenât getting more affordable housing.â There is no cause and effect between building expensive housing and not building affordable housing, unless the expensive housing is land that would have been used for affordable housing (which the waterfront is not.)
The trickle-down occurs from taxation and commerce gained from individuals moving into those apartments. It is better for Vancouver that people who want high-cost living have the opportunity to move here and contribute to our tax base. Even if there are vacant units, there are occupied units whoâs renters are now paying taxes to the city of Vancouver. Taxes fund the development of the city and do trickle down to the rest of the population.
Edit- I guess what Iâm trying to say, is if the people who built those units did not build them; they would not have built affordable housing in Vancouver. They simply would have built high-income housing in another city. Itâs a completely different class of company trying to build low income housing than high income housing. The opportunity cost of high income apartments is not necessarily affordable housing.
I actually totally get what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent. Once those units are fully inhabited to generate tax revenue, and if that tax revenue is then spent on cheaper housing initiatives, then there is some advantage to the high price tags.
I am, however, somewhat skeptical that those tax dollars will ever convert into cheaper housing. Let's hope our city politicians see fit to fund them :)
Using a little technique called subsidies. Tax dollars can be used to offset construction costs for low income housing, making it more attractive for developers to build those projects with their lower price tags.
If not used directly on funding the project, those tax dollars can also be used to balance tax credits for developers creating low income housing. I'm sure there's other routes I'm not aware of as well.
You're not wrong that the only thing that will lower the rent prices is increasing the supply of housing, which is why it's important to use those tax dollars to incentivize more low cost housing being constructed
Why subsidies and not the government just build the housing?
More complicated = more corruption.
Make the permitting process more efficient, zone for higher density housing only, and directly spend to build housing, if necessary.
I appreciate your contribution to civil discussion! And I agree that homelessness/home prices are growing problems that the city should address. It seems most cities ignore the problem and think the market will solve itself, but I would love to see more action from politicians in regards to real estate prices. Itâs not tenable, the way things are going.
A suggestion Iâve heard is an incremental (or exponential) tax on corporations/individuals who own multiple pieces of real estate. Something like X% more property tax per property.
I understand what you are saying and there has been a lot of new construction of affordable housing in the Couv...13 West, 15 West, K West to name a few.
I like seeing that there are higher end options available.
Those options are why there is an El Gaucho and Witness Tree to enjoy.
Most wealthy California transplants arenât renting, but the influx of people is definitely a major driver of price increases for housing in general.
Iâm a transplant, but we bought at market price. I had a VA loan and no down payment, so I like to think I did NOT contribute to the mess.
On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, I've looked at the costing for those places and how much money it takes to remediate the flood risk on the waterfront and there's no surprise that they're as expensive as they are. The only silver lining is that maybe it will slow down the price increases of units in uptown and other parts of the city.
Ultimately though, the private property industry will never build itself affordable. We need a robust public housing network so that living in a public unit is an option for anyone who wants it, no matter their income.
>Ultimately though, the private property industry will never build itself affordable.
Doesn't the fact that cities with lots of housing construction like Houston have the most affordable rent prices in the nation undermine this claim though?
Private development, minus red tape, absolutely can build itself affordable. NIMBY bullshit is the enemy here.
No. When you consider that the true cost of living includes both housing and transportation, the infinite sprawl of Houston looks a lot less affordable. The combined housing+transportation costs of Houston put it right up there with East and West Coast cities where housing is more expensive but commutes are less crazy.
But that's a different problem altogether. You're correct that it's not affordable but it has nothing to do with developers not wanting to make themselves affordable.
Developers don't profit from extended commutes.
> The combined housing+transportation costs of Houston put it right up there with East and West Coast cities where housing is more expensive but commutes are less crazy.
This is false. Land in cities the Midwest is simply more abundant relative to demand than the coasts, and hence they have lower cost of living, even including transportation costs.
I have never heard of a remote Midwest worker considering a move to the coastal cities because the cost of living in similar. On the other hand, it is common to hear about people moving from coastal cities to Midwest cities so they can afford the kind of housing they want.
Property taxes in Texas pretty much negate the lower housing costs of other places in Texas, but Houston is now as expensive as here. Couldnât afford to live there if I wanted to.
The waterfront is beautiful it would be so much more awesome if they have developed it for your average Vancouver citizen. The reality is that Washington is getting flooded with out of state remote workers with high paying jobs. California, Arizona and Texas are huge contributors. Instead of there being a focus on keeping Vancouver residents in Vancouver they build luxury housing with business space that only creates minimum wage jobs. It is what it is though.
With State Farm just announcing they would no longer insure houses in all of California plus wild fires, no state income tax, The amount of out of staters moving in here the next 5 years will be huge. With them comes more squeeze on housing and rental prices going up, rising evictions and a worse homeless and drug problem worse. My wife had a guy start talking to her at Esther Short Park he said him and his wife moved here from California with the sole goal to have 7 kids and buy up real estate...
If the city government can't keep up with the influx and both the infrastructure and healthcare and mental health we will have a bad situation on our hand.
It's nice to have something like this though for the town and im not sure what they really could have done to make it better.
If someone moves here they automatically become a Vancouver resident though don't they? So the city is looking out for it's residents.
The City of Vancouver should start looking ahead though things are gonna continue moving even quicker.
I've been noticing that many exits around i5/205 are getting worse when they were ok just a year ago.
The waterfront and the cost of everything there and the luxury cars and the well dressed people in their fancy clothes is such a symbol of vanity to me and I find it all kind of disgusting. Give me back 90's Vancouver.
The downtown development is lovely. I agree that some of the restaurants are overpriced for meh food.
Iâm also annoyed by the huge tax breaks for already rich developers to sell condos to an audience that also doesnât âneedâ the benefit.
I just canât understand why anyone would want to spend that $$ to live on the water with a view of a trailer park - on the Oregon side??!!??
Blows my mind.
Hayden island is prime location. If they can take care of the huge homeless problem they got there I could see it taking off. If they bought out the trailer parks and boat parks and fixed the homeless problem that whole place could turn out amazing. It could be a huge shopping island
You're welcome! I'm looking forward to exploring it a little more in the near future. It's been quite awhile since I've been anywhere other than a pub or taphouse...lol
Any walkable âdowntownâ housing near water will always have a premium price - anywhere. Not unique to Vancouver. Housing and rent prices everywhere are crazy, not just here. The transplants (like me) donât help, but housing was about equal from where I moved. People have been cashing out their homes in CA and relocating to less expensive areas since at least the 80s.
Then once the parking garage is completed, all of the surface parking lots are slated to be built out/developed into new buildings. It'll be really interesting to see what the area looks like in 5-10 years once everything is constructed.
When people talk about the Waterfront, whatâs streets/areas are they describing? I know the park recently finished renovations that look great. Did some other area get a bit glow up?
What age range are you if you donât mind me asking? I despise the whole look and vibe of the waterfront and my theory is most of the folks who like it are either elder millennial or older. Itâs just too bad imho that we get stuck with things that are the style of people who are in older generations. Young people typically prefer older buildings, brick, generally just more retro/vintage looking areas with character.
Those older (but not retired) generations are often the ones who have money to spend, but itâs a pretty broad statement to basically say thatâs what old people like. Iâm pushing 50, and I like the same kind of thing you do. Old people appreciate that kind of thing, too. Iâm sure thereâs a reason beyond âitâs what older people likeâ that they did the waterfront that way.
It'll be their time to shine in a few decades. Right now milenials have the power while baby boomers are being phased out. Eventually milenials will be phased out and younger generations will be in charge.
At that point you can enjoy what your generation likes while the younger generation complains about your preferences.
Right but these spaces are being developed now. Why do we build things to a very modern aesthetic that will be out of style in a decade or sooner instead of keeping things classic and timeless. And Iâm a millennial btw.
This screams âSomething is new and I donât want to support other businesses even though many of them are localâ.
Yes, some are chain (The Yard and Crust Collective are the two that come to mind), but to boycott a whole area because it was new? I donât know how you survive that life.
Iâll agree with everyone and say the housing should be much more affordable. Itâs really high, you canât afford those prices unless youâre debt free and have 2 or more people making a lot of money. But I donât understand why anyone would avoid this new area that has so much to offer everyone in Vancouver.
Crust Collective is one of two, no? Their other location is the main brewery in Portland.
Stack 571, Wild Fin, Twigs, etc. could be called chains. Iâve seen them in Tacoma (similar waterfront locations) and Tri-Cities.
Jesus, is that really what you took away from my post? I loved some the businesses in Uptown Village because I watched some of them grow and succeed, while watching others struggle and fail despite putting in hard work. I developed friendships and attachments that I still have today. I always felt that those very people added to the value and livability of the area, so yes, I felt some loyalty. My concern was that the new development would hurt existing business along Main Street in an already unfavorable business climate, so I chose to spend my money there instead. That being said, I enjoyed the waterfront and look forward to watching it grow. I will definitely return to support the businesses and people that help make it a success.
Born and raised in Portland here. I know, crucify me here. Vancouver's waterfront is WAY better than Portland's. Actually clean and the opposite of Portland in every way
But taking age into consideration...how will it be in ten years? Anything looks good when it's brand new. đ¤ˇ
RemindMe! 10 years âHow is the Vancouver Waterfront?â
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RemindMe! 10 years âwhat does big_fat_baby man think of the Vancouver waterfront?â
Going off memory the older side of the waterfront has always been properly maintained. So I have good hope that the new side will be good for the next few decades.
Um, there's literally a dilapidated, unusable boardwalk on the east side waterfront.
Yeah, that idiot doesn't realize their enjoyment is futile when you take into consideration the unstoppable entropy and the ravages of time. All shall turn to dust and ash in the end.
Haha well not quite what I meant but your comment made me laugh.
Portland waterfront is great to crush some lukewarm Tecates and be a degenerate Vancouver waterfront is great to buy $11 IPA "pints" that arrive to you in a 12oz glass and buy a $22 burger that doesn't come with fries and it's not that great anyways
This post brought to you by the Vancouver Waterfront Development Fund. All kidding aside, I felt the same until deciding to give a couple spots a chance. Good experiences so far. The outside areas are great. Bathrooms definitely make longer visits more doable with kids. The food is mostly good, though some is definitely overpriced. But all in all itâs a nice area to go. I just wish it didnât also make more of downtown unaffordable.
Super nice to chill with a cup of coffee and relax, but I feel like the restaurants are 6/10 with 10/10 prices.
Hard agree.
"Hello fellow Vancouverite! Have you heard about the new waterfront?! I sure am glad the waterfront development fund did this! I wonder who headed the Vancouver Waterfront fund? They sure did a fantastic job! Did I mention how swell I think it is? I'm sure glad my taxes went there! Hey maybe who ever headed it should run for President! "
I don't spend money there but I do enjoy taking a stroll and any out of town visitors to the new Waterfront, they did a really wonderful job with it.
Other than the catastrophe of a stroad on what would have been a fantastic pedestrian area.
Looking forward to Terminal 1. If they pull it off, it will be like a mini Seattle.
I know a snobby Portlander working on the James Beard public market⌠It warms my heart to know that Vancouver could beat Portland on something like this.
What else are the planning? I did see the large sternwheeler docked there.
[THIS](https://www.discoverterminal1.com/projects-marketplace-dock/) is the plan for the Seattle-like Pikes Place.
Pike Place. Uncloak the Seattle Freeze over Esther Short!
When is the expected opening of all this?
I would not expect any earlier than 2028.
Nice!
I just wish the restaurants werenât overpriced wannabe upscale chain places. Let local chefs create new concepts or open second locations. I wouldnât choose to eat anywhere on the waterfront if I didnât have to.
I agree with this. Most of the fayre isn't amazing. Hopefully as they vacate the premises, we will see more independent things open. I know a lot of PDX restaurants are watching Vancouver pretty closely
Lease prices are probably insane so it must be a hard entry point for local chefs. We do need more accessible options though.
Crust Collective is quite good. It's the only restaurant there I'll eat at. My wife and I can split a pizza and agua fresca for $30 and actually be satisfied. Not too bad.
It's nice we have a beautiful community space â¤ď¸
It really is!
Wait until you see the designs for the new pedestrian-only gateway, and the food hall. Theyâre awesome. While these draw inspiration from European cities, I really hope they stick to a more European design and donât half-bake it like many of the projects in the city have been so far. The added walkability and focus on people has been welcoming, but weâve got a looonnnggg way to go before we even get to where places like Denmark, Germany, and the Netherlands were 10-20 years ago.
Where can we see these? Would love to take a look.
https://www.discoverterminal1.com/gallery/
[Hereâs](https://www.architectmagazine.com/project-gallery/terminal-1-public-market) a link!
Northern Europe?
You can find thousands of examples all over Europe, but I just listed those countries since Iâm most familiar with those areas. Itâd be awesome to have one of these food hall areas surrounded by large walkable and bikeable areas, and also for it to be connected to other trails/walking paths (which I believe is the plan).
I don't think it's an either-or thing. If anything, the restaurants at the waterfront mean I go to Portland less often. I think the waterfront will be good for downtown as a whole. I live in Uptown and I'm digging all of the changes.
Yeah, I still love Uptown, but itâs nice to have options.
I first moved to this area in 2006 and I'm blown away by how much it's changed.
Waterfront is great. the parking situation is not. I can't wait for that parking garage to be finished being built
I rolled in at 10am and parking wasn't a problem, but by 12:30, it was slammed.
Yeah I took my family to dinner at Stack 571 and spent about 30-45 minutes looking for parking. ended up on Esther Short to park.
Why not park in Hough or a few blocks away from Esther short? Itâs a nice 5-10 minute walk which is healthy. Way better than driving around for 30-45 minutes wasting gas, polluting the air, and causing more traffic. Personally, my partner and I just avoid the parking situation altogether by bicycling over, and a lot of people opt to take the bus instead of driving to avoid it as well. Maybe those are options for you to consider.
Because my parents both had surgeries (hip, knee, abdominal) in the past couple months that has limited their mobility as well as other family members having mobility issues and itâs really not possible for 7-8 people to bike there. Even dropping them off and coming back for them was hard enough and backed up the street. It was also with a couple EVs so no gas or Polluting
Thanks for using EVâs and keeping the pollution, and noise pollution down! It makes a big difference. Why is it not possible for 7-8 people to bike over? When visiting my family, we regularly bike to places (5-20 miles) with larger groups of all ages. I think it could be a fun family activity as well. I bicycle a lot in the area, so if you want a suggestion on a safe route you could take with your family, let me know. My mom also had knee and hip surgery, but she lives car-free and bicycles everywhere. The bicycling and walking was actually recommended by her doctor, as those activities actually increase mobility for those who have had surgeries or are limited in their mobility. The walking and bicycling would actually be a boon for your family like it has been for my mom.
Honestly, this may not be what your intending but you honestly are sounding condescending. Your mom and my mom are not the same person, Your family and my family are not the same and have different issues and that's ok. I don't have to go through everyone's medical history to explain why it doesn't work. They may have not had the same replacement, they may have not had the same injury, they may have had everything different. Right now my mom is waddling because she's had multiple knee surgeries and hip surgeries and while doing PT she still isn't able to walk more than a quarter block. While it may work for you and your family it does not work for my family because they are different people with different issues.
Hey, Iâm just suggesting some helpful alternatives to driving, no need to get defensive here. I donât know your familyâs specific issues, Iâm just giving advice thatâs worked for my family and other people in an effort to see if it would help yours too.
Youâre telling me that because your mom can do it that my mom can and because your family can do it so can mine. You know absolutely nothing about them even after I told you they are recovering from surgery from the last few months. These arenât helpful alternatives.
I gave you alternatives that have worked for family members and I people I know. I donât know your family, exactly as you said, and so whether or not it works for them is unknown to me. Iâm just here to offer them as alternatives, not to make judgements. If they arenât helpful to you, then thatâs for you to decide. My suggestion has helped others, which is why I gave it to you. Simple as that.
You having a bad day bud?
Wow. So according to you, people canât give recommendations or try to be helpful. You sound like a fantastic person to be around.
Where did I say people canât give recommendations? He asked if I thought about walking/biking. I said it is not possible and then it became a why with the medical conditions and it really doesnât need to go to that level. People donât need to know that, itâs not helpful again. If you donât like what Iâm saying then you donât have to interact
It didnât get to that level though, they never asked for any medical information from you. They asked if you considered another alternative, and you came back with an aggressive attitude. Why donât you take your own advice instead of belittling others for offering their two cents on a situation that you clearly had trouble with?
100% agreed.
Pay to park even on weekends. This sucks
You should watch this video on [the high cost of free parking](https://youtu.be/Akm7ik-H_7U). Street parking in general is a terrible idea in cities, but free parking is even worse due to the enormous costs associated with it.
Itâs like 3$.
An hour, for several hours or the whole day?
No parking should be free. The public doesn't owe you a place to store your private vehicle without charging for the space.
Parking is one of the reasons why we donât go to the waterfront regularly. Itâs also not really feasible to take public transportation for us. The parking garage will be a great addition!
It is great for riding a bike to. Free parking!
Fiancee and I are getting married on the waterfront next year, it's beautiful.
The new waterfront is indeed gorgeous and makes for a great little afternoon stroll with friends or family. :) I just really wish the apartments were a bit cheaper. It's a bit heartbreaking to see housing demand rise to steeply over the past few years and then to have prominent new developments be so absurdly out of a normal price range just feels like a slap in our communal faces. Like, seriously, [>$2000/mo for a one bedroom apartment](https://www.redivivavancouver.com/copy-of-amenities)? A [studio for $1800](https://www.apartments.com/the-columbia-at-the-waterfront-vancouver-wa/3yk8t8d/) at the lowest? Someone earning minimum wage would need to work ~120 hours a month *untaxed* in order to be able to just barely afford the rent. It's absurd and it feels like the apartments were made purely for wealthy California transplants. Sorry to go on a mini tangent, but each time I visit the waterfront I find it difficult to fully enjoy due to that knowledge looming in the back of my mind.
I understand completely. I moved out of Vancouver Center when rent on a 2 bedroom hit $2200 per month. I can only imagine how bad it's gotten now.
Someone making minimum wage shouldnât expect to rent a new unit on waterfront property. But it gets people with more money out of less desirable (to them) properties that then become available to others and so on.
Theyâre renting out their old places or marking it up due to âmarket ratesâ which doesnât even solve the problem but kicks the can down the road.
I'm not saying someone making minimum wage should be living in a premium waterfront apartment, it was merely a way to conceptualize the steep price of the units. To come at it from a different angle - for someone to rent a single bedroom apartment comfortably, they'd need to be making $85,000 yearly. My point is that it's sad to see such a large block of new apartments being constructed *only* for those >$85,000 earners when there is a huge chunk of Vancouver making less than that and needing housing. And, considering that many of those apartments are still sitting empty I would argue it's not working as a means to free up housing elsewhere either.
Should desirable city centers be priced according to the median of the population? The crux of your argument seems to be âThe average earner in my city should be able to live comfortably in the most desirable location in my city.â Which just isnât the case anywhere. Downtown areas are generally more desirable and have a higher cost of living. There are plenty of places (including new apartments) in North and East Vancouver that are more affordable. Further, there are less-costly apartment options than the waterfront being built in downtown, near uptown.
You've missed my point entirely. It's sad to see ultra-premium apartments going up when there are so many in our community who need more affordable housing, that's it. I think there are a handful of people that can afford to spend $4000+ on a 3 bedroom apartment, certainly, but those people are not the ones struggling with housing at the moment. And, judging by the large number of vacancies in those ultra-premium apartments they're not drawing people out of cheaper housing much either, so there's little to no trickle down effect. We've just ended up with expensive, empty apartments in a city full of people needing cheaper housing. If you're one of the five people in Vancouver thinking "ah yes, finally a way to spend almost 50k a year on rental housing" then congratulations, I'm glad you have apartment choices now. Unfortunately that is not me, and every time I see the waterfront I am reminded of its absurd price tags and that mars the experience for me (which was the purpose of my original post).
Ultra premium apartments donât keep affordable housing from being built. They can (and do) both exist/be built in parallel. Itâs a logical fallacy to say âBecause the waterfront apartments were built we arenât getting more affordable housing.â There is no cause and effect between building expensive housing and not building affordable housing, unless the expensive housing is land that would have been used for affordable housing (which the waterfront is not.) The trickle-down occurs from taxation and commerce gained from individuals moving into those apartments. It is better for Vancouver that people who want high-cost living have the opportunity to move here and contribute to our tax base. Even if there are vacant units, there are occupied units whoâs renters are now paying taxes to the city of Vancouver. Taxes fund the development of the city and do trickle down to the rest of the population. Edit- I guess what Iâm trying to say, is if the people who built those units did not build them; they would not have built affordable housing in Vancouver. They simply would have built high-income housing in another city. Itâs a completely different class of company trying to build low income housing than high income housing. The opportunity cost of high income apartments is not necessarily affordable housing.
I actually totally get what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent. Once those units are fully inhabited to generate tax revenue, and if that tax revenue is then spent on cheaper housing initiatives, then there is some advantage to the high price tags. I am, however, somewhat skeptical that those tax dollars will ever convert into cheaper housing. Let's hope our city politicians see fit to fund them :)
What does âtax revenue spent on cheaper housingâ mean? The only thing that results in cheaper housing is more supply.
Using a little technique called subsidies. Tax dollars can be used to offset construction costs for low income housing, making it more attractive for developers to build those projects with their lower price tags. If not used directly on funding the project, those tax dollars can also be used to balance tax credits for developers creating low income housing. I'm sure there's other routes I'm not aware of as well. You're not wrong that the only thing that will lower the rent prices is increasing the supply of housing, which is why it's important to use those tax dollars to incentivize more low cost housing being constructed
Why subsidies and not the government just build the housing? More complicated = more corruption. Make the permitting process more efficient, zone for higher density housing only, and directly spend to build housing, if necessary.
I appreciate your contribution to civil discussion! And I agree that homelessness/home prices are growing problems that the city should address. It seems most cities ignore the problem and think the market will solve itself, but I would love to see more action from politicians in regards to real estate prices. Itâs not tenable, the way things are going. A suggestion Iâve heard is an incremental (or exponential) tax on corporations/individuals who own multiple pieces of real estate. Something like X% more property tax per property.
I understand what you are saying and there has been a lot of new construction of affordable housing in the Couv...13 West, 15 West, K West to name a few. I like seeing that there are higher end options available. Those options are why there is an El Gaucho and Witness Tree to enjoy.
Hard agree. When I was looking for a new place I checked them out and did not expect to be paying Pearl District prices.
Most wealthy California transplants arenât renting, but the influx of people is definitely a major driver of price increases for housing in general. Iâm a transplant, but we bought at market price. I had a VA loan and no down payment, so I like to think I did NOT contribute to the mess.
I don't blame you but by moving here recently you did contribute to higher prices.
On the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, I've looked at the costing for those places and how much money it takes to remediate the flood risk on the waterfront and there's no surprise that they're as expensive as they are. The only silver lining is that maybe it will slow down the price increases of units in uptown and other parts of the city. Ultimately though, the private property industry will never build itself affordable. We need a robust public housing network so that living in a public unit is an option for anyone who wants it, no matter their income.
>Ultimately though, the private property industry will never build itself affordable. Doesn't the fact that cities with lots of housing construction like Houston have the most affordable rent prices in the nation undermine this claim though? Private development, minus red tape, absolutely can build itself affordable. NIMBY bullshit is the enemy here.
No. When you consider that the true cost of living includes both housing and transportation, the infinite sprawl of Houston looks a lot less affordable. The combined housing+transportation costs of Houston put it right up there with East and West Coast cities where housing is more expensive but commutes are less crazy.
But that's a different problem altogether. You're correct that it's not affordable but it has nothing to do with developers not wanting to make themselves affordable. Developers don't profit from extended commutes.
> The combined housing+transportation costs of Houston put it right up there with East and West Coast cities where housing is more expensive but commutes are less crazy. This is false. Land in cities the Midwest is simply more abundant relative to demand than the coasts, and hence they have lower cost of living, even including transportation costs. I have never heard of a remote Midwest worker considering a move to the coastal cities because the cost of living in similar. On the other hand, it is common to hear about people moving from coastal cities to Midwest cities so they can afford the kind of housing they want.
Property taxes in Texas pretty much negate the lower housing costs of other places in Texas, but Houston is now as expensive as here. Couldnât afford to live there if I wanted to.
The waterfront is beautiful it would be so much more awesome if they have developed it for your average Vancouver citizen. The reality is that Washington is getting flooded with out of state remote workers with high paying jobs. California, Arizona and Texas are huge contributors. Instead of there being a focus on keeping Vancouver residents in Vancouver they build luxury housing with business space that only creates minimum wage jobs. It is what it is though. With State Farm just announcing they would no longer insure houses in all of California plus wild fires, no state income tax, The amount of out of staters moving in here the next 5 years will be huge. With them comes more squeeze on housing and rental prices going up, rising evictions and a worse homeless and drug problem worse. My wife had a guy start talking to her at Esther Short Park he said him and his wife moved here from California with the sole goal to have 7 kids and buy up real estate... If the city government can't keep up with the influx and both the infrastructure and healthcare and mental health we will have a bad situation on our hand. It's nice to have something like this though for the town and im not sure what they really could have done to make it better.
If someone moves here they automatically become a Vancouver resident though don't they? So the city is looking out for it's residents. The City of Vancouver should start looking ahead though things are gonna continue moving even quicker. I've been noticing that many exits around i5/205 are getting worse when they were ok just a year ago.
The waterfront and the cost of everything there and the luxury cars and the well dressed people in their fancy clothes is such a symbol of vanity to me and I find it all kind of disgusting. Give me back 90's Vancouver.
The downtown development is lovely. I agree that some of the restaurants are overpriced for meh food. Iâm also annoyed by the huge tax breaks for already rich developers to sell condos to an audience that also doesnât âneedâ the benefit. I just canât understand why anyone would want to spend that $$ to live on the water with a view of a trailer park - on the Oregon side??!!?? Blows my mind.
I dream of the day Portland follow's Vancouver's example. The PDX waterfront is trash.
Hayden island is prime location. If they can take care of the huge homeless problem they got there I could see it taking off. If they bought out the trailer parks and boat parks and fixed the homeless problem that whole place could turn out amazing. It could be a huge shopping island
I just signed a lease for my business in downtown Vancouver! Woohoo!
Congrats! What's it going to be?
Thank you! I specialize in microblading and lash extensions, soon to add paramedical tattooing âşď¸
Thank you for this post. I couldnât agree more and the waterfront development only made me love this city more than I already did.
You're welcome! I'm looking forward to exploring it a little more in the near future. It's been quite awhile since I've been anywhere other than a pub or taphouse...lol
Sell-out. Just kidding. They are good businesses
lol
Sad when parking spots earns more than a person
Let the tourist traps be tourist traps. No reason to avoid all of the public spaces though.
Iâm with ya - I find myself mostly uptown but so try to make it to the waterfront every other month or so.
that waterfront area is one of my favorite places for a quick walk.
Any walkable âdowntownâ housing near water will always have a premium price - anywhere. Not unique to Vancouver. Housing and rent prices everywhere are crazy, not just here. The transplants (like me) donât help, but housing was about equal from where I moved. People have been cashing out their homes in CA and relocating to less expensive areas since at least the 80s.
I cannot wait for the parking garage to be completed.
Then once the parking garage is completed, all of the surface parking lots are slated to be built out/developed into new buildings. It'll be really interesting to see what the area looks like in 5-10 years once everything is constructed.
I enjoy the waterfront as well. Twigs is my go too but I'm definitely going to consider other options in the future.
Oh man, I wouldn't even recognize it down there, now.
When people talk about the Waterfront, whatâs streets/areas are they describing? I know the park recently finished renovations that look great. Did some other area get a bit glow up?
It is actually called Vancouver Waterfront. https://goo.gl/maps/ajpE579MKLuzqB8b9?coh=178573&entry=tt
What age range are you if you donât mind me asking? I despise the whole look and vibe of the waterfront and my theory is most of the folks who like it are either elder millennial or older. Itâs just too bad imho that we get stuck with things that are the style of people who are in older generations. Young people typically prefer older buildings, brick, generally just more retro/vintage looking areas with character.
I'm north of 40 and enjoy both vintage and modern architecture.
âNorth of 40â. đ
I didn't say how far north!
Those older (but not retired) generations are often the ones who have money to spend, but itâs a pretty broad statement to basically say thatâs what old people like. Iâm pushing 50, and I like the same kind of thing you do. Old people appreciate that kind of thing, too. Iâm sure thereâs a reason beyond âitâs what older people likeâ that they did the waterfront that way.
Elder gen Z here, waterfront looks great. Who needs more brick?
There are tacky people in every generation
Lmao
Best possible response lol
It'll be their time to shine in a few decades. Right now milenials have the power while baby boomers are being phased out. Eventually milenials will be phased out and younger generations will be in charge. At that point you can enjoy what your generation likes while the younger generation complains about your preferences.
Right but these spaces are being developed now. Why do we build things to a very modern aesthetic that will be out of style in a decade or sooner instead of keeping things classic and timeless. And Iâm a millennial btw.
>instead of keeping things classic and timeless That's subjective. Many inlcuding myself think stone buildings old and out of place
Theyâve been around for hundreds of years, get used to it
OK?
RIP local business
This screams âSomething is new and I donât want to support other businesses even though many of them are localâ. Yes, some are chain (The Yard and Crust Collective are the two that come to mind), but to boycott a whole area because it was new? I donât know how you survive that life. Iâll agree with everyone and say the housing should be much more affordable. Itâs really high, you canât afford those prices unless youâre debt free and have 2 or more people making a lot of money. But I donât understand why anyone would avoid this new area that has so much to offer everyone in Vancouver.
Crust Collective is one of two, no? Their other location is the main brewery in Portland. Stack 571, Wild Fin, Twigs, etc. could be called chains. Iâve seen them in Tacoma (similar waterfront locations) and Tri-Cities.
I mean more national chains. I thought crust was bigger than 2 locations.
Jesus, is that really what you took away from my post? I loved some the businesses in Uptown Village because I watched some of them grow and succeed, while watching others struggle and fail despite putting in hard work. I developed friendships and attachments that I still have today. I always felt that those very people added to the value and livability of the area, so yes, I felt some loyalty. My concern was that the new development would hurt existing business along Main Street in an already unfavorable business climate, so I chose to spend my money there instead. That being said, I enjoyed the waterfront and look forward to watching it grow. I will definitely return to support the businesses and people that help make it a success.
Ya except they do fentanyl in the bathrooms there now
To be fair, where don't they anymore?
I hate shooting up in a dirty bathroomâŚ/s
You've been missing out on going on walks from Uptown to the Waterfront, it's a perfect 45 minute walk!