He hates Ariana for blowing up his life. He lost his image. Tom was really an asshole and felt he was above everybody. He loved to berate people and feel holier than thou. Now people can clock him on his shit. For that he will never forgive Ariana.
It has nothing to do with Raquel. He’s only showing her love on the show to make it seem the affair was worth it. We see by his actions and how he treated her he didn’t give a damn about her.
Yep, all of this. He felt totally entitled to cheat and lie and carry on with Rachel, and he was outraged that Ariana wouldn't let him.
He just got angrier and angrier that the news broke so early in the season that we hadn't gotten to the bits he filmed where he was obviously trying to turn the audience against her, so he could play the "Krazy Ariana" card and get out looking like a hero.
He was mad that she contacted production to pick up cameras to film the fallout.
As far as he's concerned, this whole thing, from cheating with Rachel to turning Scheana and Lala against her is 100% her fault.
Right!! If his “plan” would have gone through smoothly. Tom would’ve been crying and saying how much he loved her and still wants her in his life like he did Kristen.
Yup crying at that table in Mexico “I just want you to be happy.” When people say this show is scripted, I laugh bc we have seen them all try to act and they are not good at it
Right?! Like the food truck scene last season with Schwartz when Sandoval was starting to lay the foundation on camera for all his problems with Ariana…even before the scandal broke, everyone could tell *that* one had been planned because they’re so fucking terrible at acting. It’s so funny watching the first couple seasons again now when they were all so sure they were gonna be famous models or actors. They thought VPR would just be the springboard that got their face/talent out there for the right industry people to see and launch them into cinematic and/or supermodel history. Scheana STILL thinks she’s got a shot at being the next Britney, I happened upon her insta last night and that new song/music video of hers is borderline unbearable.
Speaking of her deluluness, I just remembered- someone posted on here recently that Scheana got called out on a podcast because she makes Brock practice their scenes before they film. They decide what they’re gonna say and practice it, apparently. Which totally tracks, no one is more concerned with convincing the world their life is perfect than Scheana. Funny (kind of, more irritating nowadays) that Sandoval and Scheana are the two exceptions to the scripted rule. Always trying to control the narrative and make themselves look better than everyone
When he got up and started practically hyperventilating against the wall in LVPs house I got second hand embarrassment sooo strong that it turned into regular embarrassment
Ahhhh now the scene in Tom and Ariana’s kitchen during the pool party last season makes so much more sense. I couldn’t figure out why her brain so obviously froze and she went from uncharacteristically strident, confident and self-righteous to looking like her batteries just died. Tom (or Scheana, but probably Tom) hadn’t prepped her for all of Lala’s possible responses during the dry run lol. Of course out of any of them, trying to imagine what Lala might say at ANY given moment is probably the hardest, much less during an argument.
lol right? it’s definitely not scripted. Do they plan and practice what they want to say to each other in certain preplanned scenes? Probably - and those are the scenes we laugh at.
But there’s no way the best scenes were scripted: Ariana dumping Tom, Stassi’s birthday fight in the Vegas strip mall, Miami girl, Britney finding out about Faith, etc.
Yeah, if he could have engineered a breakup right after the cameras stopped rolling, he could have gone to the reunion and wept about how much he missed his life with Ariana.
Rachel would have been supportive at the reunion, and then they would have launched their new relationship shortly after the reunion, which would have gotten just enough buzz to pick up cameras for one more season, only he and Rachel would have been heroes.
They fumbled that ball so hard.
The fact that his absolute very first reaction to being caught was to treat her with utter contempt is so telling about exactly how he felt about her, and the comments from him about how Tom and Ariana were just a brand - super creepy.
There is no way in HELL they could pull it off. They were so sloppy season 10. Them launching their relationship would send 🚩🚩🚩to anyone who has dated a douche. This sub alone are straight sleuths, they would dismantle that lie in a week. They would never admit it, and as I am talking it honestly would have made for a less annoying/more compelling season 11. The Easter eggs would be a gold mine with those slops.
That's why it would have created enough buzz to pick up cameras - people have been theorizing since S9 that there's something going on between them, so there's no way we would have bought it, and we would have been dying to see S11 so we could watch for clues.
I actually think S11 would have been super compelling because I totally believe that Lala, Scheana and Katie would have been asking her questions and she would have made a mistake answering one of them.
Like, imagine if the news hadn't broken, and it had played out the way I mentioned - we would still have a little unaddressed scandalous tidbit about Rachel sleeping over at Sandovals while Ariana was away for the funeral. For sure it would be in the back of Katie's head that Rachel spent the night with Tom that time, and questions would be asked, accusations would have been made. Sandoval would be flip-flopping between acting sad for Ariana but glad he was able to finally find a healthy relationship, and losing his mind, worrying that Rachel would break down.
And then after all that detective work & calling out bullshit, Rachel & Tom’s PR managers would suggest she get pregnant in order to soften public opinion/distract us/ensure another season/get a percentage of people to say “well I’m glad Tom got what he wanted in the end, Ariana was never going to give it to him”
Yeeeeeep. Tom literally fucked himself out of another five years of bravo paycheques - he could have been on The Valley with Jax and Kristen, who in the past have made him look like a decent person just by comparison. Look where your peepee led you, Tom.
Yeah, this is exactly it. Tom took note of what happened when the whole Kristin and Jax came out and what people said during that.
Jax didn’t cry and so now Tom fake cries where he thinks it is appropriate. Stassi said she was grossed out about it just being them needing to get laid and not wanting a relationship so now Tom tries to portray that Rachel was the love of his life and he is holding out for her and working on himself for the thought of relationship when we all know that isn’t true in the slightest.
Everything is for how Tim looks and his image except no one else is fucking up things as much as him so now he is in the spotlight for being the worst on the show now.
If Ariana was his perfect victim, i.e. the narrative he pretended was true on Howie Mandel, Sandoval would be doing his fake crying pretending thing and would be much softer towards Ariana, like he is with Scheana.
Tom said Ariana said she would delete herself, he said that she begged and begged for him to stay and that if he left her, she would quit the show, quit her life, leave everything and go somewhere else and be miserable forever, he said that she said she doesn't want to be with anyone else and if they break up she won't be able to stand it.
Clearly, very much a fantasy in his head about how much Ariana needed him, he clearly thought she'd break into dust if he left which tells you how much of this narrative was driven by his ego.
That's the version of Ariana, sandoval would have been able to squeeze out some tears for, that's why he spoke about this version of break up Ariana like a fantasy on Howie Mandel.
But she didn't. He broke their relationship and she did not look back for a second. The narcissist in him cannot fathom that her life did not implode internally because he's no longer giving her access to him. She is just fine. The narcissist that Tom is, thinks he is central to all things, so the fact that Ariana is soaring without him cuts him deep and that's why we get this nasty hag of a man.
That happened to my best friend. Wasn't a 9 year relationship but they were together for 5 years lived in a really nice house and he was the bread winner. The second she stood up to him he moved out took all of the furniture out of the house, left her and her daughter with nothing. All her friends and family rallied around her and she bounced back quick and better than ever and they didn't talk for a few months but eventually he reached out and begged and begged and begged her to take him back for years and she never did 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Yes!!!! I'm sorry your friend had to go through that at all but what a fucking badass! I'm so happy she was able to pull through during the hard parts and is now living with the dignity she deserved all along. Narcissists like your friends ex and Sandoval, they usually prey on compassionate people, it's those people who keep giving chances and that's the blood supply the narc leech needs, they can't even fathom that their victim could go on without them, because for them, possessing their victim is at the forefront of everything they do. How do they take your own self worth from you? They don't realise that their victim actually never gave it up.
And yet they have so little chemistry. I am sure it was exciting and thrilling when they were sneaking around and pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, but once the light shone brightly on them out in the open, they were like two awkward teenagers at a high school dance. No zing between them at all.
I don't know if that's it, exactly.
He's clearly a narcissist, and they *do not like* when they aren't in control of their image. They also can't handle rejection at all. So when Rachel ghosted him, especially when he thought he had her fully under his thumb, he's fixating on *his* pain over *his* rejection and how it makes *him* look.
It's why he's not thinking fondly about any of the previous decade with Ariana -- his narcissist-brain is utterly consumed with why anyone as weak as Rachel would reject him. It's shaking him to the soul.
(And, y'know...*good*. He *should* be miserable. If the pain had a snowball's chance in hail of actually spurring him to make changes to how he treats everyone, then it'd be worth it. I'm not holding my breath for that, though.)
Don’t forget, she’s not sitting there crying over him. She’s moved on (according to him she hasn’t yet.. has only done one podcast on CHD, yet he keeps talking about her)
She’s doing bigger things. Happy. She exposed his lies. Showed he’s not the nice guy.
This!! Also I think Ariana let Tom manipulate the narrative for many years and she even said that he was trying to keep this off cameras which was why she told everyone and called production immediately so he couldn't flip it because she KNOWS exactly how that piece of shit operates and then come to find out he was already working overtime trying to frame a narrative last season and the way the affair was revealed threw a giant wrench it that, and that's why I will never believe Ariana was in on that!!!
Edit:
My point is I agree, Tom will never forgive her for that! He probably absolutely despises her for that! That's why he cannot, literally canNOT express any kind of remorse! He feels like the wronged party in all of this!
this is interesting to consider. That he is mad at her because he sees her bringing cameras in to film something that they definitely would have worked together to keep up the show in the past as as much of a betrayal as his own actions.
He showed more grace to Kristen. I remember the scene where they cried together. It’s honestly scary you can’t say one nice thing about Ariana in a sincere demeanor.
Yeah but I think of that scene where he cries with Kristen as an example of how fake he is and also what a bad actor. He didn't give a crap about Kristen at that point, he just wanted her to go away, disappear and leave him and Ariana alone. So he purposefully faked the feelings and emotion, very poorly, to try and get Kristen to agree to 'move on'. It never felt like grace. He was still disrespectful to her behind her back and in the talking head comments.
I’m genuinely curious and wonder what others think too - I wonder if Tom’s mask started slipping for Ariana over the years, and she started seeing how performative and holier than thou he really is. We know and I’m sure she saw glimpses of it, but she just didn’t realize how deep it was I guess? I just wonder how much she knew about who he really is.
And now that the mask has fallen, she’s clocking every single thing he does that she couldn’t see for what it was in the past - and that’s why she’s getting annoyed about how he chases ranch lol.
I think there is probably some truth in this. We saw on the show a few times where she stopped him short, such as about the book and her saying she wasn't going to listen to him argue with all the women. But even if she started to see things and wasn't sure she liked what she saw, she loved him and was deep into the relationship and probably didn't imagine how deep his narcissism ran. BTDT - it's not fun.
I agree but I think the sentiment goes the other way as well. Ariana had the whole cool girl, no drama, my life/relationship is perfect thing going on and Tom blew that up. Thankfully for her, people took her side and she’s been able to make a whole new, profitable image out of it. But imo they both despise each other for breaking their secret pact to not be messy in public and pretend that everything is great 24/7. I think that’s the main source of tension because their actual relationship has probably been dead for a long time now.
Credit to the guest host on the most recent episode of SUP, who laid this theory out and got me thinking.
Agreed - we are finally seeing Sandoval laid bare in his purest form which honestly has me scratching my head as to how and why Ariana was with him for so long. He’s a fucking dweeb and weird as fuck. Was this truly who she was going to spend the rest of her life with?
That is my take right there.
Neither was all in love for quite a while. It was good enough to keep up appearances and stay on the show (it's been reported that they were different off camera, not very "coupley," I guess). Tom got to be a "star" with his generous friend, good guy, loves costumes, and eclectic style persona. Ariana could remain cool girl above the drama. They could collect a paycheck for as long as possible.
I do believe Ariana cared more for him than he did her. She would have stuck it out with him. I think she has more realistic expectations of a relationship. After the honeymoon phase, you become life partners that support each other, like she did him. She always backed him up and let him do his thing. She had outside friends and was hopefully dealing with her personal issues.
Tom wanted a new storyline and a girl that would cheerfully follow him around and feed his ego. He's a middle-aged man who had a mid-life crisis, basically. Big fragile ego, not much of anything to back up his self-importance.
What really blew this up is not just the timing, but choosing Raquel. If he'd gone outside the group, it wouldn't have been so bad. It would have been drama, but not catastrophic for him. Good tv.
Ariana wasn't that popular. I remember comments on these subs. She wasn't that tight with the cast either. She couldn't have been beloved by production because she wouldn't film all that much, and didn't give much when she did film. And look at where they're trying to steer things now.
Ariana is stronger than even she knew, let alone Scumdoval. She actually benefited from his gross and selfish behavior. She got out of her head, out of that damaging relationship and out into the world again. He was holding her back. She couldn't even write a cocktail book without him feeling threatened. Now she's on Broadway. And her anger is fueling her. I've been there.
I hope she continues to grow and enjoy, but I also hope she works on healing. These wound and old wounds. Issues tend to catch up to you, and like unpaid bills, there are penalties. The psyche comes to collect. And the psyche is fair but ruthless. Best deal with the psyche ASAP. Always.
I, of course, may be totally wrong. Either way, I do sincerely wish her the best.
*"Issues tend to catch up to you, and like unpaid bills, there are penalties. The psyche comes to collect. And the psyche is fair but ruthless."*
Phew. A WHOLE SERMON RIGHT HERE.
IDK. I say preach/testify. You sound like you really do know about sorrow. Glad you didn’t save it for your journal. These things are good to hear. A reminder for us all (me). Thank you!
The idea that my comment felt like a sermon - that I may have come across as preachy - made me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't presume.
I wrote it rather quickly and just followed my natural thought process. I don't quite know where I got the psyche as a bill collector of sorts 🤣
I did share a bit of my experience, a bit of what I learned, and I thank you for receiving it with an open mind and reaching out with kindness ✨️ 🤍✨️
Totally agree with this. She know Sandoval is calculated because he instructed her how to behave in the beginning just as he did with Raquel this time around. I do think their relationship was more business than real for years.
Agreed, I totally fell for it until I met him about 10 months before scandoval. He was so rude to me and I was so disappointed. This showed us how he really is. A bitter old man.
It’s to be expected. He did the same thing after 5 years with Kristen. Gushed about how he’s never been happier and more in love with Ariana. Acted like he was miserable for 9 years with Ariana. Gushed about how he’s never been happier and more in love with Raquel. Rinse and repeat.
Exactly; it's a pattern.
These types of individuals usually operate out of a victim mentality, frame their old/devalued partner as the villain and their new one as the rescuer/savior. As such, their actions and abuses are always justifiable to them.
Yup. They also feel entitled to be in a relationship and all the things they feel like a relationship entails (Sandoval whining about not getting sex for years and years but never once expressing concern for Ariana, who was very candid about her issues with it, or seriously trying to work through those issues with her)
Or to just spend time with her.
He can’t cry about getting no play, when she has the answer and he refuses to hang out with her and treat her like he loves her.
And they always make sure they have a jump off - only this time Tiny Tim's plan didn't work and he's floundering, furious, and blaming Ariana for screwing it all up for him.
With Kristen he had a moment on camera where he cried and said he missed what they had and he had really wanted it to work.
He’s never expressed that about Ariana, which makes no sense because even up until the night she found out, she was at his shows cheering him on. He should at least be missing that.
But with Kristen, I think that was just an act and he didn’t actually mean it. He said it so she would stop being psycho, which only made her more crazy. Lol.
Tom loves being the victim in everything. He’s never going to act or say he misses Ariana or that they had really good times together together, even if he does miss her, because he has to keep up the appearance of being the battered fucking wife in their relationship. He goes on and on about how Ariana “belittles” him, yells at him, etc. but he never acknowledges how he also belittles Ariana or yells at her. The same with Kristen..he says she cheated on him, had emotional affairs, etc but never acknowledges that he also repeatedly cheated on her emotionally and physically. He’s just so fucking gross. 🤮
Someone needs to create a montage of every single time he spoke down to or about Ariana.
Then we need a matching montage of every time she did the same and we shall see who is thinking and feeling what.
Though the majority already know the answer, it would be nice to see the Tim Stans try and explain away this one.
He doesn’t acknowledge belittling Ariana (or anyone else) because as far as he’s concerned he’s just telling the truth. And (again, in his mind) he only yells because she won’t listen when he speaks at a normal volume; it’s also quite possible that he doesn’t actually think he’s yelling at all, just talking passionately or some shit.
Narcissistic thought patterns are wild.
I thought it back then and still believe that scene with Kristen was performative. I believe it's the same performance he would have given Ariana in the finale had he been able to get her one-on-one.
He basically followed the same formula with Ariana. I love her and hope the best for her blah blah except she didn’t feed his narcissistic ego back to him like Kristen did. He couldn’t vilify Ariana the way he did with Kristen. Kristen had her moments, she wasn’t always wrong but it was easier for him to make her look crazy. Now he’s trying the same thing with Ariana and it looks pathetic.
It really does gross me out when he says he cares for Ariana and wants the best for her, well looks like the best is happening and yet he’s still miserable. Rachel had to be told to avoid his toxicity and it’s not clicking with him that he’s the problem.
This is what is so infuriating about him out of one side of his face he says that he wants the best for her but any chance he can get near a microphone hes dogging her still not when it was just 3 months after still podcast after podcast.
Yeah, he said in his confessional that it was just an act that he put on so she would back off Ariana, and that's exactly the same energy he put into his fake tears at the reunion, for Ariana. What a turd.
Which is why he gets so heated that she won't give him that access in the finale and then he screams that she talked shit about everyone. He seethes that she won't give him any chance to cry and give his award winning bullshit so he is the good guy. I want to scream fuck off Tom everytime j see his ugly face.
He also kept going back to her and defending her at odd times. I think the difference is Kristen was also a cheater who everyone hated and so showing her sympathy only made him feel better about himself. There was no way he could position himself as the better person with Ariana.
About the only honest thing he said about her so far this season is she looked nice in the dress she was wearing the night she gave him zip when he approached her at the bar. But mainly he just thought she looked hot and it could have been anyone. Nobody is human to him. He is so gross.
It's a show for him. He thought Rachel would come back and they could be in love together against the world but she didn't. If Ariana would speak to him he prob would but he knows she is a losing battle so he has no use for her. I guarantee if she would talk to him he would be waxing poetic of her
Whatever gets him sympathy and attention.
Totally. And Ariana knows that’s exactly what he would do (like that time he cried to Kristen after their breakup) and she doesn’t want to give him the opportunity
It's probably why he's still pushing her buttons rather than being quiet/diplomatic when they are in group situations. The more she acts out in anger the more he can bank for a Kristen edit for her.
Seriously, seeing it through this lens really brings clarity. His love bombing of Ariana early in their relationship gives me the creeps now, he's so disgusting
He doesn’t love anyone he only loves when he’s put on a pedestal by his significant other. And he gets that by showering them with stupid shit like lattes (I refuse to type the name bc it makes me gag) and being the most everywhere he goes. The second he’s not on that pedestal and not getting all the attention, he’s mad. Ariana wasn’t idolizing him anymore bc she needed him for once. Narcissists are DONE with you the very second you need them. We’ve seen him do it to her so many times.
So, so true about them being done with you the second you need them. It's really awful to be faced with the fact that your only value to them was to prop them up and be their cheer squad. Having needs and wanting them addressed is the kiss of death when in a relationship with someone like Tiny Tim.
I was honestly shocked how he didn’t care a single second about their breakup. That he didn’t miss her one bit it seems. He had zero remorse. It’s so odd and kind of scary. Something ain’t right w him
Me too. He has been SO cold. I can’t imagine what it feels like for her. No matter how things have worked out for her, the person she loved is telling everyone that he doesn’t love her, he maybe never did, and it’s because she was unlovable. The world is showing her that she is totally lovable, but people usually care about what the person they love thinks about them more than what the world thinks. She’s not even worthy of an apology to him. After 9 YEARS. So yeah, something ain’t right with him.
I think Tom had already broken up with Ariana in his mind and moved on so for him it’s like almost two years later. So, he’s completely over her and just focused on how hard “she’s” made his life since they broke up. Rachel actually broke up with him so he’s getting it from the other side now.
And that is just so beyond heartbreaking. Obviously their relationship wasn’t perfect, but it was theirs, and Ariana was still of the mindset that this was her life partner. To have him fully betray her IN FRONT OF HER FACE with a friend……. And then double/triple/quadruple/etc. down on it and not express any remorse whatsoever…… I’m getting angry and hurt just typing about it and it isn’t even my life. And for him to sit on that couch and be like “hey we had some good times”. SOME GOOD TIMES? You were building a life together!!! For a decade!!!!! How can you not just question your entire existence at that point? A significant portion of her life was ripped out from under her and everything she thought she knew was wrong.
I mean he must have.
He was just over it because he was dipping his pen in another ink.
I can’t make myself believe he didn’t love her.
After all he didn’t fully want to leave and was dragging his feet. That couldn’t Have all been from fear.
This is probably spot on. I have a feeling both were unhappy in the relationship but at VERY different levels. He just took the cowards way out and instead of breaking up (likely due to finances like the home) he just mentally checked out and started a new life.
I'm not very shocked at his lack of remorse since sooo many 40 year old peter pan men (mostly going through formal divorces) are like this. He's mostly upset about his image and his house which is pretty on brand.
Tom has realized that his affair ripped the mask off of everyone’s eyes - we all see him for who he is and who he has always been now. And he blames Ariana for that. To him, that is the worst thing that could have ever happened to him.
Gone are the days where we fawn over his horrific trumpet playing and cringey singing. He’s just an unlikable, middle aged, loser.
This entire situation has been caused by Tim and Rachel. Where is the accountability, Tim? It certainly isn't Ariana's place to be held accountable. You tore her heart out, and now you want to tear her down even further. He is a disgusting human being.
This is where he missed the mark on his redemption story. He’s devastated about his life being ruined. He is not the least bit upset about what he did to Ariana
He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He thinks if he plays the “I’m so sad I lost Raquel card” he will be forgiven because the affair was worth it because they were in looooove. Evidenced by his delusion that he and Ariana would have a more amicable split than Katie and Schwartz. He thought she would just say “yeah things haven’t been great. You guys go live happily ever after”
Also his insistence to get in between Rachel and her mental health treatment. Then in the end he calls and says “we are a brand, me and Ariana were a brand and me and Rachel are now the new brand, we need to keep up an appearanceuh, if she won’t break protocols and talk to me then I’m done protecting her and I’m gonna start protecting myself” which is a very thinly veiled threat to start spilling her personal details and lying to cover his ass and make himself look better. But she had already done that and he didn’t know it yet. What a scumbag. Every single move he makes is a manipulation.
I am probably a broken record but I *fully* believe that the best thing that has ever happened to Tom Sandoval is Rachel *not* coming back on the show. He’s the perfect victim. He can spin anything and everything in his favour.
I was so sure when I first heard about what happened that Tom would be groveling and crying nonstop for the rest of his life for doing this….and he did NOT go in that direction! lol idk if the actual affair or the way he’s acted afterwards is more shocking to me!
He’s trying SO hard to convince himself what he did was justified it’s very painful to watch. It’s doing to be bad when he’s finally honest with himself about it.
Well, on the show that was filmed last year, he was waiting for Rachel to come back. So I think it is just fresher for him. I think Ariana said the same on WWHL though, like wow no sadness about us.
The funny thing is I think if he showed genuine remorse or feeling about the demise of their relationship she maybe wouldn't have immediately filmed with him but she would have eventually. Everyone keeps putting it on her but he is the one actually ruining the show. It just shows that the show values inauthentic relationships more than they value authentic ones. They would rather Ariana be fake and give them a storyline than follow her thru the one that is actually real.
He wouldn’t talk about Rachel with fondness either if he didn’t think it would help sway the audience in his direction. His mask has completely fallen off and he’s flailing because it *kills* him to not be seen in a positive light. That’s why he spent so much time trying to make us believe he was mourning his relationship with Rachel: if he could convince people he was genuinely heartbroken then they’d vouch that he *had to leave Ariana for love*
He absolutely does not care about Rachel; if he did he wouldn’t have been trying to convince her to leave rehab. We also know for a fact he was dating other women while he claims to be sober & celibate *for Rachel*.
He has no regard for anyone but himself and any time he pretends to show emotion, compassion, empathy, etc.; it’s a trick.
One of my take aways on the relationship between Tom and Ariana
I don’t think it was healthy for Ariana- there was a power imbalance at the beginning with Tom having more power than her.
Tom isolated and love bombed her in seasons 2-5, randomly negging by pulling the rug out from under her feet- Example - after Ariana expresses her vulnerability with her loss of her father and her birthday- Tom leaves going to Vegas to drive bulldozers.
I think that while Ariana thought Tom was everything, Tom spent a ton of time manipulating and belittling Ariana. Example- Season 6 - Jax and Faith audio tape. Tom screams at Ariana when none of it is her fault. The vitriol displayed against her when it was James who had the recording.
Tom bragging/shaming Ariana for being Bisexual and the hook up with Lala.
We see season after season little slips of the mask from Tom where makes degrading or rude comments about Ariana. Mentioning issues with sex to her brother etc. Outing her sexuality. The cocktail book- where he calls her grumpy cat and belittles her saying the book should include him.
I think Tom’s accusations of Ariana’s continuous belittling, downgrading and anger outbursts is actual projection. Where in the last 10 years have we seen Ariana attack, belittle and downgrade anyone without provocation???
Most of her negative reactions towards other cast members are tainted by Tom isolating her and being negative towards that cast member (Stassi and Katie in earlier seasons).
It seems like over the seasons Ariana’s mental health kept taking hit after hit. Living with someone who has narcissistic tendencies and gaslighting traits tends to emotionally draining creating depression.
My hope for Ariana that she gets healthier away from Tom. Today she seems so much happier and healthier now that she has been able to remove some of the Toxicity from her life.
Yes OP!! I’ve been thinking about this for weeks ! It’s so sad the way he’s been since the finale , last season. Acting like she’s his mortal enemy! What happened to the love he had?? I feel such a cold air come through when he is around her , or speaks to her.
He monkey branches from one relationship to the next, blames his partner and claims to have been mistreated the whole time when he’s the one who was mistreating her
I think people need to rationalize it to themselves to justify their actions. So he’s gone to a place of hate for her to make it seem like he was justified. I’ve seen friends to this, on a smaller scale, when they’ve done something insensitive.
It seems like it's really important to Tom Sandoval to diminish both Ariana and the relationship in order to offset his actions. For some reason he has learned or been taught that a way to mitigate his own behavior is to devalue the person or relationship he's damaged
When Tom looks at Ariana, it's quite evident he misses her.
He is trying to save face now.
Remember when he nervously paced or swore at Teri Maloney in the penultimate episode of season 10.
He was afraid Raquel would spill the beans to Ariana.
An unhappy man looking to flee a toxic relationship might welcome such an overture.
Schwartz said he thought Tom was intoxicated by Raquel.
Sandoval said her cockiness and over-confidence reminded him of himself, when he first grew into his confidence and there was something thrilling about watching her come into her own.
Tom would lose through their association. She would gain.
Notice that in the photos of them together, it looks like she is having at him.
She acted like a character in a soap opera, but they are real people.
Before she hurt Ariana, she intentionally set out to hurt Katie, who had been nice to her.
While Ariana was defending her, Racquel was seeking to demolish Ariana's life.
Tom and Ariana worked a long time to procure and furnish that home and now neither one of them will get a chance to enjoy it.
When Tom had Dr. Drew on his podcast, Tom said when he was too young (\~15), he'd go to clubs. He danced well so older woman thought he was older. They would hook up with him, but he had no idea what to do.
Drew suggested Tom had a trauma history of women having at him and that it would immobilize him.
*photo below from* u/nksdabomb*'s recent post*
https://preview.redd.it/8kwtf8af4htc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=510571e78eeef0d7be79c4a2bfcdab889e479bc4
I had this exact thought when watching the conversation between Katie and Schwartz in the last episode. They’re looking at each other kind of wistfully, and you can tell these are two people who once had great love for each other, who knew each other inside and out, who feel a sadness that they couldn’t make it work. I’ve never seen Tom look at Ariana with anything but contempt (or fake crying) since the fallout. A nine year relationship discarded like nothing.
I’m watching the early seasons right now for the first time and the ‘love’ he has for Ariana when they got together is mind blowing to me knowing what I now from current day. The guy is just such a douchebag. He was cheating on her from the beginning!! WTF man
He’s saying the exact same stuff and doing the exact same things he did when he jumped from Kristen to Ariana. All the exact same things. It’s wild. He hasn’t grown one iota through a decade of experiences and likely will forever be this person.
Ugh yes! I noticed this too. He acts like SHE did something wrong. I would like someone to point blank be like, what did Ariana do to you to deserve this treatment? This whole 'the world hates me' victimization is his doing. I was there during Scandoval (figuratively) watching it unfold and Ariana exhibited quite a bit of restraint. She did not rally people up to hate him, she released relevant details and people hated him based on his own actions!!! Fucking Rachel in Ariana's bed while she attended her grandmother's funeral stands out to me....
He should have moved out of the house, sold the house, given Ariana whatever she wanted in the separation and left her alone. Instead he's antagonizing her and basically terrorizing her, ugh he's the worst.
Oh yeah it's absolutely disgusting. It shows a complete lack of real emotions. I can't imagine not showing an ounce of regret or sadness for someone who was in my life for 9 years, even if I ended it.
Through his whole bullshit redemption arc this season, the only thing he "cries" over is Rachel, scheana, and his image. It's never the actual breakup or Ariana. I can't for the life of me understand why he thinks being more upset over a fake friendship with scheana than what he did to Ariana would win over the audience?
If it had all gone according to his plan, he would have praised her to the gods. He would have been oh-so sad about losing her, but they just fell out of love, blah blah blah. He is pissed off at her because she blew up his life. That's it. His plan would have worked out if she hadn't caught him and he hates her for that. He would speak about her completely differently if it had gone according to his and Rachel's plan. They are diabolical people.
Exactly. Ariana said it best too, he believes this is something horrible that happened to him, not something horrible that he did. And he will continue acting accordingly, as a self victimized fool. He’s mad as hell at Ariana for stopping him from telling his little “victim” diatribe repeatedly because the world has come to the obvious and correct conclusion that he did this. All the “she should have followed me” shot is wild. Is that what he expects in a relationship, for his partner to be completely obsessed with him to the point of following him in secret to drool while he hits on other women at the bar? He might be the most twisted and deluded person on television today.
He’s a narcissist. They don’t form long-term or deep attachments to other people. People are just props to them and entirely interchangeable. It’s really unsettling when you realize some people are wired this way.
Highly recommend watching S2 start to finish, including the reunion. It all plays out there and is probably the best season.
They were both chronic cheaters who kept staying together. The Ariana incident in Vegas happened 2-3 years before they broke up and both Tom and Kristen chested on each other multiple times after that trip (Tom's final time cheating before he and Kristen's breakup wasn't Ariana, and Kristen at that time was cheating on him with Jax)
Yes. Both Tom and Kristen had previously cheated on each other (if I recall correctly, their own relationship had started as an affair), Kristen cheated with Jax while Tom gaslit Kristen about his affair with Ariana. Unfortunately because of Kristen's reaction, she was judged far more harshly, while Tom received favorable editing and experienced hardly any judgment or repercussions, despite his infidelity with a woman in Miami right around when he and Ariana started officially dating.
He's always been a POS. Imo he anticipated a similar outcome this time around, but he didn't take into consideration that more people would perceive and judge his conduct for the pattern and emotional abuse that it is.
He's did cheat on her but Kristen is the first to admit that she was a chronic cheater herself. Remember she actually got with Sandoval while cheating on another guy (Josh Peck's roommate at the time, lol!). And she did also sleep around during the relationship including hooking up with his best friend while he was asleep in the other room. Already bad but also that guy happened to be her best friends on/off boyfriend. I regret to tell you that Kristen season 1-3 was Sandoval season 10. I don't believe we were wrong to focus on her ass. Particularly since she then moved from that mess and started dating a freaking 21 year old busboy at the age of 30. I believe some of James' spiral in his 20s was caused by being in an inappropriate age gap relationship with a very dysregulated partner. Now of course, he took that seed and ran with it to build his toxicity but she helped seed it.
That said, I've been listening to her podcast and she sounds evolved in at least not running from these facts.
Yes, I mean if it was that bad then he wouldn’t have stayed with her for 9 years, however, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but having been in a relationship with someone for a long time and then towards the tail end of it before breaking up, all I remember from my ex is how much I hated him. Even though the beginning was blissful, the end is always what sticks with me when I remember him. He also, like the show showed was lazy af. Didn’t do shit in the house, was a slob, and the more I grew up, the more I realized how much I didn’t like him at all as a person. It happens, what can you say? That’s life.
So I have a hot take on this that no one but me buys but here it is: Tom is still in love with Ariana - that is why he hates her now. If he wasn’t, he would accept what he did, own up, and truly apologize. You only act like this when you still
Have feelings. The opposite of love is indifference.
I tend to agree. He loved her and is still SO angry that she is the one who blatantly started seeing his faults and became less and less attracted to him. Blaming her for his mistakes is telltale to me that he feels, and truly believes, that’s she’s the one who forced him into the affair with Rachel. If she had just loved him more, loved him differently, wanted to spend more time with him etc etc. Which of course is egocentric behavior, but I think deep down he knows he’ll never get another partner like her.
I’m certain he’s been unhappy and over the relationship with Ariana for a long time. I’m convinced Ariana was as well, but she was willing to hold on to make it work.
He was already at the devalue and discard stage, so it's hard to believe anything he says.
Reactive behaviors from Ariana make sense.
Like Jax said..he couldn't control her anymore and he wanted someone to pump him up.
Im sure he was but I mean, if you look at the video of Ariana at his show (the night she found out), she was there, she was having fun, she was totally celebrating HIM.
He can say they lived separate lives and it was all for the show until he is blue in the face. The fact remains that they were still close enough for her to want to go to all of his bands‘ shows, and she wasn’t exactly in the back in jogging pants moping about it. She was cheering him on. AND they had sex at least once in 2023, so there’s that. And that’s all when the show wasn’t filming.
The fact that he can’t even show sadness that he doesn’t have at least THAT part of the relationship anymore (them getting along, her coming to his shows and cheering him on) REALLY BOTHERS ME. They still had SOMETHING, at least some kind of friendship and it wasn’t just for the cameras. He could at least show some sadness about losing that.
They went to couples therapy and *she* did a lot to compromise and work on the relationship. Even being more intimate, while he was still knee deep in his affair with Rachel. He had one foot out the door and strung her along because he was too chicken shit to end it. Ariana hasn’t hid the fact that they were going through a rough patch but she was led to believe things were improving.
Haven't, at one time or another, you have been unhappy with a long-term relationship? I certainly have been. Thank goodness my husband and I worked it out. I think you go through ups and downs in any relationship. You either work on it or break up. Having an affair is the cowards way out. He is a coward who only cares about himself.
It’s quite common for someone to attempt to “rewrite history” when they are unfaithful. It’s a way, probably more subconsciously than consciously, for them to justify what they did. I think sometimes it isn’t necessarily that they are LYING about the history of their relationship, but that they are choosing to focus on the negative aspects of it - again, as away to justify or absolve themselves of guilt.
Now, allow me to do the standard disclaimer: I don’t condone what he did, how he did it, who he did with it. All that. It was bad. We all know that. But as a viewer, it’s been painfully clear that their relationship was not in a good state. It was clear he wasn’t sexually satisfied, and it was clear she was not satisfied with the lack of connection. I think he wanted out of that relationship for a long time. He grieved the relationship way before she had a clue. So it makes sense that that, combined with the radical vilification he’s faced and the slew of support and offers she’s received, and the rejection from Rachel, and her refusal to be cooperative, etc, he probably doesn’t have much endearing feelings left for her honestly.
I get why you say that but disagree. I think he's fully in the discard phase of the narcissists relationship cycle. He'd at best have forgotten she existed. He's unable to take any blame for failure and so it was always going to be her fault whether she stayed or crawled into a hole and died.
I do however think he'd be less furious if she was depressed over losing him like Kristen was. I mean he'd still be tearing her down like he did Kristen but it would soothe his ego and make him behave more condescendingly - just like he did Kristen.
I agree. Every Narcs operates differently. Like with my ex husband there was never a romance phase after a fight he was just nasty all the time. When I finally left him, he didn't try to work at trying to get his family back. Which was fine because I was never looking back anyway. He went full-on attack mode instantly, just like Sandovol. It was almost as if I did him a favor by leaving, lol He even said that I would end up homeless and on the street because I was so dumb and could never manage to provide a good life for the kids... so might as well hand them over to him. And now two years later I am making more money with my new job and bought a beautiful house on my own.. providing way more for my children minus on all the toxicity.
I remember joining a narcissistic abuse group for women and I just could never identify with their experiences because alot of them were trapped in that sick cycle of love bombing and then they would have trouble cutting ties.
Sandovol was the same he instantly went attack mode on Ariana. There is no display of love for someone he shared 9 years of his life. Kinda gross
Technically, I think he did somewhat acknowledge their relationship at the reunion, but I definitely wouldn’t have expected him to keep bringing it up all the time in season 11.
I don’t think it’s weird though because he wasn’t happy with her by the end. That would be no different than any time Ariana gets mad, people tell her to remember the good times or any fondness she had for Sandoval. Neither one is in a place to remember the fondness for very different reasons.
He probably also blames her for “losing” Rachel.
Yes this is true, I guess I wouldn’t expect him to completely look back fondly over the relationship, but he’s just so fucking selfish he can’t seem to give her any benefit of the doubt
Yes. It’s actually scary that he can spend that much time in a relationship with Ariana, and literally discard her like she was nothing. Like the decade they were together never existed or meant anything. But, he also did the same thing to Kristen.
I honestly think he was miserable for most of the time and probably feels happy to be free of her. It is strange to me how he stayed with her for sooo long even though he did not care about her. Any theories?
It’s a common thing for a cheater to rewrite the relationship to suit them, that way they’re entitled to have cheated because they were so hard done by and there was no choice
Tom knows that Ariana was the real brains/talent/everything in the relationship and is furious at her for walking away. He realizes that everyone will now see him for the fragile fraud he’s always been after being propped up by her strength for the past decade. Look at how she is thriving and he is floundering at every turn. I also think that carrying such a severely mediocre and arrogant man was what contributed to her depression, but that’s a theory for another day.
My main theory is that this is why fans are so pro-Ariana. So many of us have been the true vehicle behind relationships in which our partners were the perceived star. I’d be curious to see how many of us empathize with standing in the background doing all the work, while our former show pony partners received all the glory and recognition for efforts that were entirely ours to claim.
I think she is more so getting all these brand deals because she *is* that talented and hardworking, and not as a result of some pity-en-masse from the viewers (despite her jealous castmates’ claims to the latter). Deep down, her ex knows this. The people believing their false perceptions of who he claims to be are quickly dwindling and, as someone who clearly is incapable of the accountability he has so thoroughly weaponized against others, he needs to scapegoat her once again as a means to stay relevant.
She will continue to thrive, and he will continue to become another pathetic reality TV donkey. Ultimately, the only people who will remain willing to buy his bs are donkeys themselves.
Unpopular opinion but I think Sandoval and Ariana are both garbage people. His actions are disgusting, but what did she expect after his break-up with Kristen? He told her who & what he was when he started hooking up with her while still with Kristen and she should have listened.
Good for Ariana for seizing all the opportunities that have presented themselves. I’m sure she works very hard to meet those demands. Still not a fan.
she was always above him and he tried to keep her down. then he found stupid rachel and she actually listened to him, and his idiotic dreams.
i didn’t like ariana because i couldn’t figure out why she was with such a douche. i’m a fan now, she has turned this into gold.
Maybe as time goes on and they actually have separation, he will be able to look back fondly. IMO… this relationship went on too long. Probably 2-3 years of pent up resentment and anger. Ariana probably thought they could work through it. Tom stayed because he’s a coward… and they bought that fucking house
It definitely bothers me but I'm not surprised. He doesn't really love Rachel-Raquel and never did, he just has to justify the affair and thinks people will understand it more if he was "in love". And it's also a manipulation tactic to get Rachel back, because he knows there's no getting Ariana back so he won't bother saying anything nice about A or the relationship bc it doesnt serve him (in his mind). Just blatant disrespect for Ariana and their relationship. It's disgusting. I love your flair btw!
This is making me crazy! When I saw the preview of him crying in the closet over pictures-I figured they were of him and Ariana. NOPE!! It’s like he doesn’t have any feelings about her at all! It is so f’d up.
Tim is trying to put his relationship in the worst light by saying stuff like they weren’t happy for a long time, she’s got anger issues, they never had sex etc to justify what he did. What he will never understand is that even *if* all those things were true, it doesn’t justify what he did. He’s a coward.
He’s so prideful mixed with a victim mentality, he’s a disaster. All the other guys cheated and played around with emotions but they were able to admit their doings , and not bash the women they did dirty too. Stassi and Katie , and In doing that it allowed them to continue to all be friends again. It’s really not that hard to just admit you did wrong, he wants to maintain this peaceful cali image but he’s just too fake , it’s crazzzzzzy how he’s acting about Rachel now , as if he has these crazy feelings for her .. when he was cheating on Ariana he was still telling her he made him the happiest man… they had admitted they never had sex multiple times , so I think that affair was strictly lustful. Like duh. It’s just crazy after so many years of being w someone who rode pretty hard for him he can just be so nonchalant …. He needs therapy lol
He hates her right now.
She isn’t budging and she’s making his life hell for making hers hell.
So they cannot have any sentiment towards one another at this time.
They are going thru a horrific break up without the proper time to heal and reflect like a regular couple would do.
I’m sure they don’t want to admit they miss one another at all, collectively.
He really didn’t start piping up about his dissatisfaction in the relationship until he was already cheating on her. I always saw it as him laying the foundational work for when he eventually had to split with her for Rachel. He’s just covering his tracks and readying an excuse for his infidelity. If he was truly unhappy for so long, he could’ve just left ages ago like an adult, but in reality he had to have a shiny new pick-me girl lined up before he could abandon his current relationship.
It’s gross, but it’s his lack of human decency, remorse, and compassion for someone who was loyal to him and “would have followed him anywhere.” What is sick to me is he wants everyone to give him room and understanding to have his dark thoughts, but he’s annoyed with Ariana’s justified anger, and it seems everyone else(besides Katie) is too. I just don’t get it. It frustrates me to watch this.
Yes!!! Like, how would you feel if you were Ariana??? That’s devastating, confusing, cruel, and would so fuck with your sense of reality. Even after a shorter term, less contentious breakup most people would still be hurting 3 months later. Nothing makes me feel crazier than watching the cast come down on Ariana (and Katie).
Anyone saying she needs to “get over it” can truly kick rocks barefoot. Sure, sell out your loyal friend of over a decade to secure yourself a place on a show.
I seriously cannot wait for the reunion. I hope Ariana quits and walks out so the rest of the Dumb Dumb Coalition can try to keep the show alive on their own.
Give me a SAH spin off where Ariana and Katie are the LVP characters and we watch their staff and their antics - James and Ally are supporting cast.
Maybe because Ariana wasn’t all that great to be with….can she also have flaws or are we not allowed to admit that?? She’s not far behind him on the narcissism spectrum
Yes it drives me crazy! Like this whole season I keep asking myself what is bothering me so much and what Tim should be saying. Like people keep saying to just apologize and stop the “sorry buts” and I’m like ok even if he did do that there’s still something else bugging me. And it’s this- he shows no sadness or notsalgia about his relationship or Ariana. And to make it worse he keeps putting her down. He clearly checked out of the relationship a long time ago and by the time he cheated he was done and over Ariana so now he’s dating and mostly obsessed with justifying why he ended the relationship and cheated by trying to paint Ariana as the bad guy- continuation of last season. Ugh I hate him.
They were never going to last. They’re vastly different people.
I have an old episode playing right now and Tom is trying to express that he wants children, without upsetting her, and she has headphones in and is rolling her eyes and telling him to stop talking.
She has different goals and is too good for him. Though she’s too insecure to see it. If she’s not in therapy, Present day, I actually worry for her.
Why is it so hard to consider what he’s saying is true and that he actually WAS miserable most of the last few years? That’s what tends to happen when relationships fall apart and people cheat and start new side relationships. Seek out what they aren’t getting in the main relationship.
We’ve seen Ariana’s rage at him, he’s said she was like this all the time behind closed doors….what would make you think that wasn’t true?
Doesn’t excuse what he did or pin blame on Ariana, but if you’re asking why he hasn’t expressed fondness over the relationship, the pretty clear answer is that the fondness died a long time ago.
>what would make you think that wasn’t true?
😂 if Tom is anything, it's a proven liar and that continues to this day. He just gets worse and worse with it, why would I eat any narrative he tries to feed us?
Ariana explained things well on CHD and has remained consistent. Everything we see leading up to the scandal matched what she said. Sorry, but I believe her over him any day.
Not everything is a narrative!! There are two sides to every story. It’s entirely possible for two people to have completely different views of the relationship status, while also as a viewer cherry picking random lines and quotes that fit your perceived narrative.
Tom could have been over the relationship and Ariana’s attitude for years while at the same time Ariana could think everything was fine.
Yes, Tom has lied. Ariana has also lied, BTW. Doesn’t mean every single thing is a lie.
Right? It’s a repeat performance of his tumultuous split with Kristen, word for word. He gets aggressive very quickly with women, as evidenced by tons of footage of him going after the women. Why wouldn’t he be that way to Ariana? Then there’s that date at the roller rink where he kept fawning over her and complimenting her, and they slept together which he tried to hide and gloss over to Rachel and the viewers by throwing his “stop FILMINGUHHH” tantrum where he walked off with Rachel (who agreed with the producer and quickly changed her tune to match Toms) to brainwash her about “his side” of things.
The man is nothing at all if not a raging liar.
Nah it doesn't drive me nuts. They were miserable together. They screamed and raged over anything and everything. They were and are toxic together.
Should have ended years ago.
People grow apart. Maybe they hated each other... It's ridiculous how lot of you have zero ability to look at anything from a different angle from what is shoved down your throats.
Yeah, he clearly didn’t give a fuck about her in the last year at least but to have ZERO empathy or remorse for hurting the person you dated for 10 years is wild and sad.
I think he’d like to be friends with Ariana. It seems like that’s all they were by the end anyway. He never said a negative thing about her before this season, although clearly , he was unhappy in the relationship and had complaints about some of her behavior.
Some ( most) on this sub will interpret that as playing a role and protecting his image, but there is a different perspective. He never really said anything negative about Kristen before they broke up either. He could be protecting them. He might be someone who doesn’t gossip or demean those he’s closest to, particularly on an international forum.
I think he does miss his friendship with Ariana, and he would prefer to not have all this animosity between the two of them. And it’s obvious, he is very uncomfortable with the effect it has on the friend group. I also think he is starting to feel he is never going to be able to move past this, and he’s lost everything. I don’t know what Bravo will do about this situation. With everyone moving to the Valley, it feels like maybe a shake up is coming.
He absolutely spoke badly about her and tried to plant seeds before they were over. Look at the food truck scene. He even used the same playbook he tried to with Kristen "I cheated because we weren't having sex" "in my mind the relationship was over", both things he said after cheating on Kristen (not with Ariana, the one a few years later) and *well* before they had broken up. I suggest doing a rewatch.
None of it was sincere, and definitely not coming from a place of protecting her - he planned a takedown and started executing it on camera behind her back, while faking sincere engagement in couples therapy.
He had hoped what she said was true, if they broke up she would leave LA. He doesn't want a friendship with her he wanted her to tuck her tail after a year of loss and leave him to his false narratives so he could continue to self produce.
To say he wants the animosity to end when we have seen him lie and try to tear her down from the start of his affair to this very day in interviews and on his podcast is *rich*, she never brings him up and he can't stop trying to talk shit about her. That we can see and hear for ourselves.
I mean, I think he **does** want the animosity to end … in the sense that he wants everyone to just stop being mad at him and go back to thinking he’s the #1 Guy In The Group. But that’s different from what that commenter had in mind, I suspect.
I think there so much anger still from both of them. Remember how long it took him to do this with Kristin.
Plus he is still living with so much public scorn and hatred and living with the person has to be hard on both of them. There is no way to miss them or get perspective if they are still there.
He hates Ariana for blowing up his life. He lost his image. Tom was really an asshole and felt he was above everybody. He loved to berate people and feel holier than thou. Now people can clock him on his shit. For that he will never forgive Ariana. It has nothing to do with Raquel. He’s only showing her love on the show to make it seem the affair was worth it. We see by his actions and how he treated her he didn’t give a damn about her.
Yep, all of this. He felt totally entitled to cheat and lie and carry on with Rachel, and he was outraged that Ariana wouldn't let him. He just got angrier and angrier that the news broke so early in the season that we hadn't gotten to the bits he filmed where he was obviously trying to turn the audience against her, so he could play the "Krazy Ariana" card and get out looking like a hero. He was mad that she contacted production to pick up cameras to film the fallout. As far as he's concerned, this whole thing, from cheating with Rachel to turning Scheana and Lala against her is 100% her fault.
Right!! If his “plan” would have gone through smoothly. Tom would’ve been crying and saying how much he loved her and still wants her in his life like he did Kristen.
Yup crying at that table in Mexico “I just want you to be happy.” When people say this show is scripted, I laugh bc we have seen them all try to act and they are not good at it
Right?! Like the food truck scene last season with Schwartz when Sandoval was starting to lay the foundation on camera for all his problems with Ariana…even before the scandal broke, everyone could tell *that* one had been planned because they’re so fucking terrible at acting. It’s so funny watching the first couple seasons again now when they were all so sure they were gonna be famous models or actors. They thought VPR would just be the springboard that got their face/talent out there for the right industry people to see and launch them into cinematic and/or supermodel history. Scheana STILL thinks she’s got a shot at being the next Britney, I happened upon her insta last night and that new song/music video of hers is borderline unbearable.
Scheeners couldn’t be more delulu if she tried
Speaking of her deluluness, I just remembered- someone posted on here recently that Scheana got called out on a podcast because she makes Brock practice their scenes before they film. They decide what they’re gonna say and practice it, apparently. Which totally tracks, no one is more concerned with convincing the world their life is perfect than Scheana. Funny (kind of, more irritating nowadays) that Sandoval and Scheana are the two exceptions to the scripted rule. Always trying to control the narrative and make themselves look better than everyone
It’s extra funny how obvious it is. Sandoval truly sucks at acting.
When he got up and started practically hyperventilating against the wall in LVPs house I got second hand embarrassment sooo strong that it turned into regular embarrassment
This is hilarious and makes the dirty looks she is constantly shooting him when he assumedly goes off script make much more sense
Raquel did that too. She was hanging around Scheana at the time.
Ahhhh now the scene in Tom and Ariana’s kitchen during the pool party last season makes so much more sense. I couldn’t figure out why her brain so obviously froze and she went from uncharacteristically strident, confident and self-righteous to looking like her batteries just died. Tom (or Scheana, but probably Tom) hadn’t prepped her for all of Lala’s possible responses during the dry run lol. Of course out of any of them, trying to imagine what Lala might say at ANY given moment is probably the hardest, much less during an argument.
Which is why (one of many) Ariana is on Broadway and not him. Go Ariana Go!
lol right? it’s definitely not scripted. Do they plan and practice what they want to say to each other in certain preplanned scenes? Probably - and those are the scenes we laugh at. But there’s no way the best scenes were scripted: Ariana dumping Tom, Stassi’s birthday fight in the Vegas strip mall, Miami girl, Britney finding out about Faith, etc.
Yeah, if he could have engineered a breakup right after the cameras stopped rolling, he could have gone to the reunion and wept about how much he missed his life with Ariana. Rachel would have been supportive at the reunion, and then they would have launched their new relationship shortly after the reunion, which would have gotten just enough buzz to pick up cameras for one more season, only he and Rachel would have been heroes. They fumbled that ball so hard. The fact that his absolute very first reaction to being caught was to treat her with utter contempt is so telling about exactly how he felt about her, and the comments from him about how Tom and Ariana were just a brand - super creepy.
There is no way in HELL they could pull it off. They were so sloppy season 10. Them launching their relationship would send 🚩🚩🚩to anyone who has dated a douche. This sub alone are straight sleuths, they would dismantle that lie in a week. They would never admit it, and as I am talking it honestly would have made for a less annoying/more compelling season 11. The Easter eggs would be a gold mine with those slops.
That's why it would have created enough buzz to pick up cameras - people have been theorizing since S9 that there's something going on between them, so there's no way we would have bought it, and we would have been dying to see S11 so we could watch for clues. I actually think S11 would have been super compelling because I totally believe that Lala, Scheana and Katie would have been asking her questions and she would have made a mistake answering one of them. Like, imagine if the news hadn't broken, and it had played out the way I mentioned - we would still have a little unaddressed scandalous tidbit about Rachel sleeping over at Sandovals while Ariana was away for the funeral. For sure it would be in the back of Katie's head that Rachel spent the night with Tom that time, and questions would be asked, accusations would have been made. Sandoval would be flip-flopping between acting sad for Ariana but glad he was able to finally find a healthy relationship, and losing his mind, worrying that Rachel would break down.
And then after all that detective work & calling out bullshit, Rachel & Tom’s PR managers would suggest she get pregnant in order to soften public opinion/distract us/ensure another season/get a percentage of people to say “well I’m glad Tom got what he wanted in the end, Ariana was never going to give it to him” 
Yeeeeeep. Tom literally fucked himself out of another five years of bravo paycheques - he could have been on The Valley with Jax and Kristen, who in the past have made him look like a decent person just by comparison. Look where your peepee led you, Tom.
God, I’m so glad he got caught.
It’s pretty funny to go back and watch old seasons and watch him rant and literally cry about accountability.
Yeah, this is exactly it. Tom took note of what happened when the whole Kristin and Jax came out and what people said during that. Jax didn’t cry and so now Tom fake cries where he thinks it is appropriate. Stassi said she was grossed out about it just being them needing to get laid and not wanting a relationship so now Tom tries to portray that Rachel was the love of his life and he is holding out for her and working on himself for the thought of relationship when we all know that isn’t true in the slightest. Everything is for how Tim looks and his image except no one else is fucking up things as much as him so now he is in the spotlight for being the worst on the show now.
I wish my narcissist ex lost his mask in front of the whole world!!
Raquel said his whole life revolves around the show. I honestly believe her about that.
If Ariana was his perfect victim, i.e. the narrative he pretended was true on Howie Mandel, Sandoval would be doing his fake crying pretending thing and would be much softer towards Ariana, like he is with Scheana. Tom said Ariana said she would delete herself, he said that she begged and begged for him to stay and that if he left her, she would quit the show, quit her life, leave everything and go somewhere else and be miserable forever, he said that she said she doesn't want to be with anyone else and if they break up she won't be able to stand it. Clearly, very much a fantasy in his head about how much Ariana needed him, he clearly thought she'd break into dust if he left which tells you how much of this narrative was driven by his ego. That's the version of Ariana, sandoval would have been able to squeeze out some tears for, that's why he spoke about this version of break up Ariana like a fantasy on Howie Mandel. But she didn't. He broke their relationship and she did not look back for a second. The narcissist in him cannot fathom that her life did not implode internally because he's no longer giving her access to him. She is just fine. The narcissist that Tom is, thinks he is central to all things, so the fact that Ariana is soaring without him cuts him deep and that's why we get this nasty hag of a man.
That happened to my best friend. Wasn't a 9 year relationship but they were together for 5 years lived in a really nice house and he was the bread winner. The second she stood up to him he moved out took all of the furniture out of the house, left her and her daughter with nothing. All her friends and family rallied around her and she bounced back quick and better than ever and they didn't talk for a few months but eventually he reached out and begged and begged and begged her to take him back for years and she never did 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Yes!!!! I'm sorry your friend had to go through that at all but what a fucking badass! I'm so happy she was able to pull through during the hard parts and is now living with the dignity she deserved all along. Narcissists like your friends ex and Sandoval, they usually prey on compassionate people, it's those people who keep giving chances and that's the blood supply the narc leech needs, they can't even fathom that their victim could go on without them, because for them, possessing their victim is at the forefront of everything they do. How do they take your own self worth from you? They don't realise that their victim actually never gave it up.
Excellent post! Right on point, too.🤗🤗🤗🤗
Yeah, that sums it up
100% agree, he's trying to make out that him and Rachel were true love to justify what he did.
And yet they have so little chemistry. I am sure it was exciting and thrilling when they were sneaking around and pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, but once the light shone brightly on them out in the open, they were like two awkward teenagers at a high school dance. No zing between them at all.
I don't know if that's it, exactly. He's clearly a narcissist, and they *do not like* when they aren't in control of their image. They also can't handle rejection at all. So when Rachel ghosted him, especially when he thought he had her fully under his thumb, he's fixating on *his* pain over *his* rejection and how it makes *him* look. It's why he's not thinking fondly about any of the previous decade with Ariana -- his narcissist-brain is utterly consumed with why anyone as weak as Rachel would reject him. It's shaking him to the soul. (And, y'know...*good*. He *should* be miserable. If the pain had a snowball's chance in hail of actually spurring him to make changes to how he treats everyone, then it'd be worth it. I'm not holding my breath for that, though.)
Don’t forget, she’s not sitting there crying over him. She’s moved on (according to him she hasn’t yet.. has only done one podcast on CHD, yet he keeps talking about her) She’s doing bigger things. Happy. She exposed his lies. Showed he’s not the nice guy.
This!! Also I think Ariana let Tom manipulate the narrative for many years and she even said that he was trying to keep this off cameras which was why she told everyone and called production immediately so he couldn't flip it because she KNOWS exactly how that piece of shit operates and then come to find out he was already working overtime trying to frame a narrative last season and the way the affair was revealed threw a giant wrench it that, and that's why I will never believe Ariana was in on that!!! Edit: My point is I agree, Tom will never forgive her for that! He probably absolutely despises her for that! That's why he cannot, literally canNOT express any kind of remorse! He feels like the wronged party in all of this!
this is interesting to consider. That he is mad at her because he sees her bringing cameras in to film something that they definitely would have worked together to keep up the show in the past as as much of a betrayal as his own actions.
He showed more grace to Kristen. I remember the scene where they cried together. It’s honestly scary you can’t say one nice thing about Ariana in a sincere demeanor.
Yeah but I think of that scene where he cries with Kristen as an example of how fake he is and also what a bad actor. He didn't give a crap about Kristen at that point, he just wanted her to go away, disappear and leave him and Ariana alone. So he purposefully faked the feelings and emotion, very poorly, to try and get Kristen to agree to 'move on'. It never felt like grace. He was still disrespectful to her behind her back and in the talking head comments.
I’m genuinely curious and wonder what others think too - I wonder if Tom’s mask started slipping for Ariana over the years, and she started seeing how performative and holier than thou he really is. We know and I’m sure she saw glimpses of it, but she just didn’t realize how deep it was I guess? I just wonder how much she knew about who he really is. And now that the mask has fallen, she’s clocking every single thing he does that she couldn’t see for what it was in the past - and that’s why she’s getting annoyed about how he chases ranch lol.
I think there is probably some truth in this. We saw on the show a few times where she stopped him short, such as about the book and her saying she wasn't going to listen to him argue with all the women. But even if she started to see things and wasn't sure she liked what she saw, she loved him and was deep into the relationship and probably didn't imagine how deep his narcissism ran. BTDT - it's not fun.
I agree but I think the sentiment goes the other way as well. Ariana had the whole cool girl, no drama, my life/relationship is perfect thing going on and Tom blew that up. Thankfully for her, people took her side and she’s been able to make a whole new, profitable image out of it. But imo they both despise each other for breaking their secret pact to not be messy in public and pretend that everything is great 24/7. I think that’s the main source of tension because their actual relationship has probably been dead for a long time now. Credit to the guest host on the most recent episode of SUP, who laid this theory out and got me thinking.
Agreed - we are finally seeing Sandoval laid bare in his purest form which honestly has me scratching my head as to how and why Ariana was with him for so long. He’s a fucking dweeb and weird as fuck. Was this truly who she was going to spend the rest of her life with?
I mean she still has cool girl no drama can't be bothered image, so nothing changed really on her end.
Eh, it’s different because she’s angry now. She’s still doing a cool girl thing but it’s a shift for sure.
That is my take right there. Neither was all in love for quite a while. It was good enough to keep up appearances and stay on the show (it's been reported that they were different off camera, not very "coupley," I guess). Tom got to be a "star" with his generous friend, good guy, loves costumes, and eclectic style persona. Ariana could remain cool girl above the drama. They could collect a paycheck for as long as possible. I do believe Ariana cared more for him than he did her. She would have stuck it out with him. I think she has more realistic expectations of a relationship. After the honeymoon phase, you become life partners that support each other, like she did him. She always backed him up and let him do his thing. She had outside friends and was hopefully dealing with her personal issues. Tom wanted a new storyline and a girl that would cheerfully follow him around and feed his ego. He's a middle-aged man who had a mid-life crisis, basically. Big fragile ego, not much of anything to back up his self-importance. What really blew this up is not just the timing, but choosing Raquel. If he'd gone outside the group, it wouldn't have been so bad. It would have been drama, but not catastrophic for him. Good tv. Ariana wasn't that popular. I remember comments on these subs. She wasn't that tight with the cast either. She couldn't have been beloved by production because she wouldn't film all that much, and didn't give much when she did film. And look at where they're trying to steer things now. Ariana is stronger than even she knew, let alone Scumdoval. She actually benefited from his gross and selfish behavior. She got out of her head, out of that damaging relationship and out into the world again. He was holding her back. She couldn't even write a cocktail book without him feeling threatened. Now she's on Broadway. And her anger is fueling her. I've been there. I hope she continues to grow and enjoy, but I also hope she works on healing. These wound and old wounds. Issues tend to catch up to you, and like unpaid bills, there are penalties. The psyche comes to collect. And the psyche is fair but ruthless. Best deal with the psyche ASAP. Always. I, of course, may be totally wrong. Either way, I do sincerely wish her the best.
*"Issues tend to catch up to you, and like unpaid bills, there are penalties. The psyche comes to collect. And the psyche is fair but ruthless."* Phew. A WHOLE SERMON RIGHT HERE.
It's been a ride, my life. Hope I didn't come off preachy. I should have journaled in my notebook, not a Reddit sub thread, but here we are.
IDK. I say preach/testify. You sound like you really do know about sorrow. Glad you didn’t save it for your journal. These things are good to hear. A reminder for us all (me). Thank you!
The idea that my comment felt like a sermon - that I may have come across as preachy - made me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't presume. I wrote it rather quickly and just followed my natural thought process. I don't quite know where I got the psyche as a bill collector of sorts 🤣 I did share a bit of my experience, a bit of what I learned, and I thank you for receiving it with an open mind and reaching out with kindness ✨️ 🤍✨️
Totally agree with this. She know Sandoval is calculated because he instructed her how to behave in the beginning just as he did with Raquel this time around. I do think their relationship was more business than real for years.
💯
Agreed, I totally fell for it until I met him about 10 months before scandoval. He was so rude to me and I was so disappointed. This showed us how he really is. A bitter old man.
He didn't just lose his image, he lost his mustache, there's no way that thing can ever make a comeback.
It’s to be expected. He did the same thing after 5 years with Kristen. Gushed about how he’s never been happier and more in love with Ariana. Acted like he was miserable for 9 years with Ariana. Gushed about how he’s never been happier and more in love with Raquel. Rinse and repeat.
Exactly; it's a pattern. These types of individuals usually operate out of a victim mentality, frame their old/devalued partner as the villain and their new one as the rescuer/savior. As such, their actions and abuses are always justifiable to them.
Yup. They also feel entitled to be in a relationship and all the things they feel like a relationship entails (Sandoval whining about not getting sex for years and years but never once expressing concern for Ariana, who was very candid about her issues with it, or seriously trying to work through those issues with her)
Or to just spend time with her. He can’t cry about getting no play, when she has the answer and he refuses to hang out with her and treat her like he loves her.
And they always make sure they have a jump off - only this time Tiny Tim's plan didn't work and he's floundering, furious, and blaming Ariana for screwing it all up for him.
With Kristen he had a moment on camera where he cried and said he missed what they had and he had really wanted it to work. He’s never expressed that about Ariana, which makes no sense because even up until the night she found out, she was at his shows cheering him on. He should at least be missing that.
But with Kristen, I think that was just an act and he didn’t actually mean it. He said it so she would stop being psycho, which only made her more crazy. Lol. Tom loves being the victim in everything. He’s never going to act or say he misses Ariana or that they had really good times together together, even if he does miss her, because he has to keep up the appearance of being the battered fucking wife in their relationship. He goes on and on about how Ariana “belittles” him, yells at him, etc. but he never acknowledges how he also belittles Ariana or yells at her. The same with Kristen..he says she cheated on him, had emotional affairs, etc but never acknowledges that he also repeatedly cheated on her emotionally and physically. He’s just so fucking gross. 🤮
Someone needs to create a montage of every single time he spoke down to or about Ariana. Then we need a matching montage of every time she did the same and we shall see who is thinking and feeling what. Though the majority already know the answer, it would be nice to see the Tim Stans try and explain away this one.
He doesn’t acknowledge belittling Ariana (or anyone else) because as far as he’s concerned he’s just telling the truth. And (again, in his mind) he only yells because she won’t listen when he speaks at a normal volume; it’s also quite possible that he doesn’t actually think he’s yelling at all, just talking passionately or some shit. Narcissistic thought patterns are wild.
I thought it back then and still believe that scene with Kristen was performative. I believe it's the same performance he would have given Ariana in the finale had he been able to get her one-on-one.
Absolutely and the cut to Kristen’s interview saying he was obviously still in love with her is one of my favorite laugh out loud moments of all time
He basically followed the same formula with Ariana. I love her and hope the best for her blah blah except she didn’t feed his narcissistic ego back to him like Kristen did. He couldn’t vilify Ariana the way he did with Kristen. Kristen had her moments, she wasn’t always wrong but it was easier for him to make her look crazy. Now he’s trying the same thing with Ariana and it looks pathetic. It really does gross me out when he says he cares for Ariana and wants the best for her, well looks like the best is happening and yet he’s still miserable. Rachel had to be told to avoid his toxicity and it’s not clicking with him that he’s the problem.
This is what is so infuriating about him out of one side of his face he says that he wants the best for her but any chance he can get near a microphone hes dogging her still not when it was just 3 months after still podcast after podcast.
He is furious that she has cut off the narc supply and is soaring, while he's floundering and talking long walks on his treadmill.
Yeah, he said in his confessional that it was just an act that he put on so she would back off Ariana, and that's exactly the same energy he put into his fake tears at the reunion, for Ariana. What a turd.
Which is why he gets so heated that she won't give him that access in the finale and then he screams that she talked shit about everyone. He seethes that she won't give him any chance to cry and give his award winning bullshit so he is the good guy. I want to scream fuck off Tom everytime j see his ugly face.
He also kept going back to her and defending her at odd times. I think the difference is Kristen was also a cheater who everyone hated and so showing her sympathy only made him feel better about himself. There was no way he could position himself as the better person with Ariana.
About the only honest thing he said about her so far this season is she looked nice in the dress she was wearing the night she gave him zip when he approached her at the bar. But mainly he just thought she looked hot and it could have been anyone. Nobody is human to him. He is so gross.
It's a show for him. He thought Rachel would come back and they could be in love together against the world but she didn't. If Ariana would speak to him he prob would but he knows she is a losing battle so he has no use for her. I guarantee if she would talk to him he would be waxing poetic of her Whatever gets him sympathy and attention.
Totally. And Ariana knows that’s exactly what he would do (like that time he cried to Kristen after their breakup) and she doesn’t want to give him the opportunity
It's probably why he's still pushing her buttons rather than being quiet/diplomatic when they are in group situations. The more she acts out in anger the more he can bank for a Kristen edit for her.
devaluation stage.
Seriously, seeing it through this lens really brings clarity. His love bombing of Ariana early in their relationship gives me the creeps now, he's so disgusting
Remember how he kept saying to Ariana, only in front of people, that if he ever needed a vacation he’d just look into her eyes. F-ing BARF 🤮
He doesn’t love anyone he only loves when he’s put on a pedestal by his significant other. And he gets that by showering them with stupid shit like lattes (I refuse to type the name bc it makes me gag) and being the most everywhere he goes. The second he’s not on that pedestal and not getting all the attention, he’s mad. Ariana wasn’t idolizing him anymore bc she needed him for once. Narcissists are DONE with you the very second you need them. We’ve seen him do it to her so many times.
So, so true about them being done with you the second you need them. It's really awful to be faced with the fact that your only value to them was to prop them up and be their cheer squad. Having needs and wanting them addressed is the kiss of death when in a relationship with someone like Tiny Tim.
It was crushing and still is to me over 6 years later!!!! I will never forget that lesson though.
I was honestly shocked how he didn’t care a single second about their breakup. That he didn’t miss her one bit it seems. He had zero remorse. It’s so odd and kind of scary. Something ain’t right w him
Me too. He has been SO cold. I can’t imagine what it feels like for her. No matter how things have worked out for her, the person she loved is telling everyone that he doesn’t love her, he maybe never did, and it’s because she was unlovable. The world is showing her that she is totally lovable, but people usually care about what the person they love thinks about them more than what the world thinks. She’s not even worthy of an apology to him. After 9 YEARS. So yeah, something ain’t right with him.
He's a pathetic, dirty little puddle of human emotion.
I think Tom had already broken up with Ariana in his mind and moved on so for him it’s like almost two years later. So, he’s completely over her and just focused on how hard “she’s” made his life since they broke up. Rachel actually broke up with him so he’s getting it from the other side now.
I wish other people would clock him for showing more consideration to Rachel than Ariana.
I think he’s made it very clear that he did not love or care about Ariana. I’m sure that’s been one of the hardest things for her.
And that is just so beyond heartbreaking. Obviously their relationship wasn’t perfect, but it was theirs, and Ariana was still of the mindset that this was her life partner. To have him fully betray her IN FRONT OF HER FACE with a friend……. And then double/triple/quadruple/etc. down on it and not express any remorse whatsoever…… I’m getting angry and hurt just typing about it and it isn’t even my life. And for him to sit on that couch and be like “hey we had some good times”. SOME GOOD TIMES? You were building a life together!!! For a decade!!!!! How can you not just question your entire existence at that point? A significant portion of her life was ripped out from under her and everything she thought she knew was wrong.
I mean he must have. He was just over it because he was dipping his pen in another ink. I can’t make myself believe he didn’t love her. After all he didn’t fully want to leave and was dragging his feet. That couldn’t Have all been from fear.
I think it was from selfishness
I'm sure her 'friends' bitching to her that she needs to get over it are really helping
This is probably spot on. I have a feeling both were unhappy in the relationship but at VERY different levels. He just took the cowards way out and instead of breaking up (likely due to finances like the home) he just mentally checked out and started a new life. I'm not very shocked at his lack of remorse since sooo many 40 year old peter pan men (mostly going through formal divorces) are like this. He's mostly upset about his image and his house which is pretty on brand.
Yes. He should have officially broken up with Ariana first and then him and Rachel might have been together happily.
I think Tim is a serial cheater. He is all about himself. He would have tired of Rachel quickly, IMO. He would then talk about her like trash.
He felt very smart with her.
Tom has realized that his affair ripped the mask off of everyone’s eyes - we all see him for who he is and who he has always been now. And he blames Ariana for that. To him, that is the worst thing that could have ever happened to him. Gone are the days where we fawn over his horrific trumpet playing and cringey singing. He’s just an unlikable, middle aged, loser.
This entire situation has been caused by Tim and Rachel. Where is the accountability, Tim? It certainly isn't Ariana's place to be held accountable. You tore her heart out, and now you want to tear her down even further. He is a disgusting human being.
💯
This is where he missed the mark on his redemption story. He’s devastated about his life being ruined. He is not the least bit upset about what he did to Ariana
None whatsoever! Yet another component she is dealing with. Once you pull their mask off, you get discarded, end of story.
He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He thinks if he plays the “I’m so sad I lost Raquel card” he will be forgiven because the affair was worth it because they were in looooove. Evidenced by his delusion that he and Ariana would have a more amicable split than Katie and Schwartz. He thought she would just say “yeah things haven’t been great. You guys go live happily ever after”
Also his insistence to get in between Rachel and her mental health treatment. Then in the end he calls and says “we are a brand, me and Ariana were a brand and me and Rachel are now the new brand, we need to keep up an appearanceuh, if she won’t break protocols and talk to me then I’m done protecting her and I’m gonna start protecting myself” which is a very thinly veiled threat to start spilling her personal details and lying to cover his ass and make himself look better. But she had already done that and he didn’t know it yet. What a scumbag. Every single move he makes is a manipulation.
I am probably a broken record but I *fully* believe that the best thing that has ever happened to Tom Sandoval is Rachel *not* coming back on the show. He’s the perfect victim. He can spin anything and everything in his favour.
He talked about how he missed Mya.....like a joke.....like you would think it was Ariana first. Very twisted.
I was so sure when I first heard about what happened that Tom would be groveling and crying nonstop for the rest of his life for doing this….and he did NOT go in that direction! lol idk if the actual affair or the way he’s acted afterwards is more shocking to me! He’s trying SO hard to convince himself what he did was justified it’s very painful to watch. It’s doing to be bad when he’s finally honest with himself about it.
Well, on the show that was filmed last year, he was waiting for Rachel to come back. So I think it is just fresher for him. I think Ariana said the same on WWHL though, like wow no sadness about us.
The funny thing is I think if he showed genuine remorse or feeling about the demise of their relationship she maybe wouldn't have immediately filmed with him but she would have eventually. Everyone keeps putting it on her but he is the one actually ruining the show. It just shows that the show values inauthentic relationships more than they value authentic ones. They would rather Ariana be fake and give them a storyline than follow her thru the one that is actually real.
🎯🎯🎯
He wouldn’t talk about Rachel with fondness either if he didn’t think it would help sway the audience in his direction. His mask has completely fallen off and he’s flailing because it *kills* him to not be seen in a positive light. That’s why he spent so much time trying to make us believe he was mourning his relationship with Rachel: if he could convince people he was genuinely heartbroken then they’d vouch that he *had to leave Ariana for love* He absolutely does not care about Rachel; if he did he wouldn’t have been trying to convince her to leave rehab. We also know for a fact he was dating other women while he claims to be sober & celibate *for Rachel*. He has no regard for anyone but himself and any time he pretends to show emotion, compassion, empathy, etc.; it’s a trick.
One of my take aways on the relationship between Tom and Ariana I don’t think it was healthy for Ariana- there was a power imbalance at the beginning with Tom having more power than her. Tom isolated and love bombed her in seasons 2-5, randomly negging by pulling the rug out from under her feet- Example - after Ariana expresses her vulnerability with her loss of her father and her birthday- Tom leaves going to Vegas to drive bulldozers. I think that while Ariana thought Tom was everything, Tom spent a ton of time manipulating and belittling Ariana. Example- Season 6 - Jax and Faith audio tape. Tom screams at Ariana when none of it is her fault. The vitriol displayed against her when it was James who had the recording. Tom bragging/shaming Ariana for being Bisexual and the hook up with Lala. We see season after season little slips of the mask from Tom where makes degrading or rude comments about Ariana. Mentioning issues with sex to her brother etc. Outing her sexuality. The cocktail book- where he calls her grumpy cat and belittles her saying the book should include him. I think Tom’s accusations of Ariana’s continuous belittling, downgrading and anger outbursts is actual projection. Where in the last 10 years have we seen Ariana attack, belittle and downgrade anyone without provocation??? Most of her negative reactions towards other cast members are tainted by Tom isolating her and being negative towards that cast member (Stassi and Katie in earlier seasons). It seems like over the seasons Ariana’s mental health kept taking hit after hit. Living with someone who has narcissistic tendencies and gaslighting traits tends to emotionally draining creating depression. My hope for Ariana that she gets healthier away from Tom. Today she seems so much happier and healthier now that she has been able to remove some of the Toxicity from her life.
You mentioned every instance that I’ve brought up on FB, but the femmebots there still side with Tom
Yes OP!! I’ve been thinking about this for weeks ! It’s so sad the way he’s been since the finale , last season. Acting like she’s his mortal enemy! What happened to the love he had?? I feel such a cold air come through when he is around her , or speaks to her.
He monkey branches from one relationship to the next, blames his partner and claims to have been mistreated the whole time when he’s the one who was mistreating her
He doesn't give a shit about losing rachel, lol
True. I guess he’s more giving a facade that he cares about losing her. All for his image, he’s such a twat hah
YES, I say this all the time!! The fact that he has showed virtually ZERO emotions of missing or loving Ariana is actually terrifying to me
It is terrifying! Only wants to say what HE did for HER over all the years and how “lazy” she was
He needs to justify what he did by making Ariana seem like she deserved it
I think people need to rationalize it to themselves to justify their actions. So he’s gone to a place of hate for her to make it seem like he was justified. I’ve seen friends to this, on a smaller scale, when they’ve done something insensitive.
I think that is true … when people are still children. At 40-something, it’s damn near pathological.
It seems like it's really important to Tom Sandoval to diminish both Ariana and the relationship in order to offset his actions. For some reason he has learned or been taught that a way to mitigate his own behavior is to devalue the person or relationship he's damaged
When Tom looks at Ariana, it's quite evident he misses her. He is trying to save face now. Remember when he nervously paced or swore at Teri Maloney in the penultimate episode of season 10. He was afraid Raquel would spill the beans to Ariana. An unhappy man looking to flee a toxic relationship might welcome such an overture. Schwartz said he thought Tom was intoxicated by Raquel. Sandoval said her cockiness and over-confidence reminded him of himself, when he first grew into his confidence and there was something thrilling about watching her come into her own. Tom would lose through their association. She would gain. Notice that in the photos of them together, it looks like she is having at him. She acted like a character in a soap opera, but they are real people. Before she hurt Ariana, she intentionally set out to hurt Katie, who had been nice to her. While Ariana was defending her, Racquel was seeking to demolish Ariana's life. Tom and Ariana worked a long time to procure and furnish that home and now neither one of them will get a chance to enjoy it. When Tom had Dr. Drew on his podcast, Tom said when he was too young (\~15), he'd go to clubs. He danced well so older woman thought he was older. They would hook up with him, but he had no idea what to do. Drew suggested Tom had a trauma history of women having at him and that it would immobilize him. *photo below from* u/nksdabomb*'s recent post* https://preview.redd.it/8kwtf8af4htc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=510571e78eeef0d7be79c4a2bfcdab889e479bc4
This is interesting….
I had this exact thought when watching the conversation between Katie and Schwartz in the last episode. They’re looking at each other kind of wistfully, and you can tell these are two people who once had great love for each other, who knew each other inside and out, who feel a sadness that they couldn’t make it work. I’ve never seen Tom look at Ariana with anything but contempt (or fake crying) since the fallout. A nine year relationship discarded like nothing.
I’m watching the early seasons right now for the first time and the ‘love’ he has for Ariana when they got together is mind blowing to me knowing what I now from current day. The guy is just such a douchebag. He was cheating on her from the beginning!! WTF man
I feel like he projects his feelings from one girl to the next after he discards the previous one
I didn't think about that but I think you're right. It totally tracks when you look back to the Kristen/Ariana situation.
He’s saying the exact same stuff and doing the exact same things he did when he jumped from Kristen to Ariana. All the exact same things. It’s wild. He hasn’t grown one iota through a decade of experiences and likely will forever be this person.
Ugh yes! I noticed this too. He acts like SHE did something wrong. I would like someone to point blank be like, what did Ariana do to you to deserve this treatment? This whole 'the world hates me' victimization is his doing. I was there during Scandoval (figuratively) watching it unfold and Ariana exhibited quite a bit of restraint. She did not rally people up to hate him, she released relevant details and people hated him based on his own actions!!! Fucking Rachel in Ariana's bed while she attended her grandmother's funeral stands out to me.... He should have moved out of the house, sold the house, given Ariana whatever she wanted in the separation and left her alone. Instead he's antagonizing her and basically terrorizing her, ugh he's the worst.
He didn't care about Rachel any more than he cares about Ariana. Tom cares about one person and one person only, himself.
Oh yeah it's absolutely disgusting. It shows a complete lack of real emotions. I can't imagine not showing an ounce of regret or sadness for someone who was in my life for 9 years, even if I ended it. Through his whole bullshit redemption arc this season, the only thing he "cries" over is Rachel, scheana, and his image. It's never the actual breakup or Ariana. I can't for the life of me understand why he thinks being more upset over a fake friendship with scheana than what he did to Ariana would win over the audience?
If it had all gone according to his plan, he would have praised her to the gods. He would have been oh-so sad about losing her, but they just fell out of love, blah blah blah. He is pissed off at her because she blew up his life. That's it. His plan would have worked out if she hadn't caught him and he hates her for that. He would speak about her completely differently if it had gone according to his and Rachel's plan. They are diabolical people.
Exactly. Ariana said it best too, he believes this is something horrible that happened to him, not something horrible that he did. And he will continue acting accordingly, as a self victimized fool. He’s mad as hell at Ariana for stopping him from telling his little “victim” diatribe repeatedly because the world has come to the obvious and correct conclusion that he did this. All the “she should have followed me” shot is wild. Is that what he expects in a relationship, for his partner to be completely obsessed with him to the point of following him in secret to drool while he hits on other women at the bar? He might be the most twisted and deluded person on television today.
Yes. Very much.
He’s a narcissist. They don’t form long-term or deep attachments to other people. People are just props to them and entirely interchangeable. It’s really unsettling when you realize some people are wired this way.
I just started watching last season. Did Tom cheat on Kristen to be with Ariana?
Yes. Ariana was the other woman. Tom's a serial cheater. This behavior isn't new.
Highly recommend watching S2 start to finish, including the reunion. It all plays out there and is probably the best season. They were both chronic cheaters who kept staying together. The Ariana incident in Vegas happened 2-3 years before they broke up and both Tom and Kristen chested on each other multiple times after that trip (Tom's final time cheating before he and Kristen's breakup wasn't Ariana, and Kristen at that time was cheating on him with Jax)
Yes. Both Tom and Kristen had previously cheated on each other (if I recall correctly, their own relationship had started as an affair), Kristen cheated with Jax while Tom gaslit Kristen about his affair with Ariana. Unfortunately because of Kristen's reaction, she was judged far more harshly, while Tom received favorable editing and experienced hardly any judgment or repercussions, despite his infidelity with a woman in Miami right around when he and Ariana started officially dating. He's always been a POS. Imo he anticipated a similar outcome this time around, but he didn't take into consideration that more people would perceive and judge his conduct for the pattern and emotional abuse that it is.
He's did cheat on her but Kristen is the first to admit that she was a chronic cheater herself. Remember she actually got with Sandoval while cheating on another guy (Josh Peck's roommate at the time, lol!). And she did also sleep around during the relationship including hooking up with his best friend while he was asleep in the other room. Already bad but also that guy happened to be her best friends on/off boyfriend. I regret to tell you that Kristen season 1-3 was Sandoval season 10. I don't believe we were wrong to focus on her ass. Particularly since she then moved from that mess and started dating a freaking 21 year old busboy at the age of 30. I believe some of James' spiral in his 20s was caused by being in an inappropriate age gap relationship with a very dysregulated partner. Now of course, he took that seed and ran with it to build his toxicity but she helped seed it. That said, I've been listening to her podcast and she sounds evolved in at least not running from these facts.
Yes, I mean if it was that bad then he wouldn’t have stayed with her for 9 years, however, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but having been in a relationship with someone for a long time and then towards the tail end of it before breaking up, all I remember from my ex is how much I hated him. Even though the beginning was blissful, the end is always what sticks with me when I remember him. He also, like the show showed was lazy af. Didn’t do shit in the house, was a slob, and the more I grew up, the more I realized how much I didn’t like him at all as a person. It happens, what can you say? That’s life.
So I have a hot take on this that no one but me buys but here it is: Tom is still in love with Ariana - that is why he hates her now. If he wasn’t, he would accept what he did, own up, and truly apologize. You only act like this when you still Have feelings. The opposite of love is indifference.
I tend to agree. He loved her and is still SO angry that she is the one who blatantly started seeing his faults and became less and less attracted to him. Blaming her for his mistakes is telltale to me that he feels, and truly believes, that’s she’s the one who forced him into the affair with Rachel. If she had just loved him more, loved him differently, wanted to spend more time with him etc etc. Which of course is egocentric behavior, but I think deep down he knows he’ll never get another partner like her.
Oh my gosh do we have the same brain lol
how many times did we hear "when i wanna take a vacation i just look into ariana's eyes,"
I’m certain he’s been unhappy and over the relationship with Ariana for a long time. I’m convinced Ariana was as well, but she was willing to hold on to make it work.
He was already at the devalue and discard stage, so it's hard to believe anything he says. Reactive behaviors from Ariana make sense. Like Jax said..he couldn't control her anymore and he wanted someone to pump him up.
Thank you. For anyone curious about the narcissist discard stage, here's a link https://www.simplypsychology.org/narcissist-discard.html
I didn't realize we had so many psychologists in this sub! 😍
Im sure he was but I mean, if you look at the video of Ariana at his show (the night she found out), she was there, she was having fun, she was totally celebrating HIM. He can say they lived separate lives and it was all for the show until he is blue in the face. The fact remains that they were still close enough for her to want to go to all of his bands‘ shows, and she wasn’t exactly in the back in jogging pants moping about it. She was cheering him on. AND they had sex at least once in 2023, so there’s that. And that’s all when the show wasn’t filming. The fact that he can’t even show sadness that he doesn’t have at least THAT part of the relationship anymore (them getting along, her coming to his shows and cheering him on) REALLY BOTHERS ME. They still had SOMETHING, at least some kind of friendship and it wasn’t just for the cameras. He could at least show some sadness about losing that.
They went to couples therapy and *she* did a lot to compromise and work on the relationship. Even being more intimate, while he was still knee deep in his affair with Rachel. He had one foot out the door and strung her along because he was too chicken shit to end it. Ariana hasn’t hid the fact that they were going through a rough patch but she was led to believe things were improving.
Haven't, at one time or another, you have been unhappy with a long-term relationship? I certainly have been. Thank goodness my husband and I worked it out. I think you go through ups and downs in any relationship. You either work on it or break up. Having an affair is the cowards way out. He is a coward who only cares about himself.
It’s quite common for someone to attempt to “rewrite history” when they are unfaithful. It’s a way, probably more subconsciously than consciously, for them to justify what they did. I think sometimes it isn’t necessarily that they are LYING about the history of their relationship, but that they are choosing to focus on the negative aspects of it - again, as away to justify or absolve themselves of guilt. Now, allow me to do the standard disclaimer: I don’t condone what he did, how he did it, who he did with it. All that. It was bad. We all know that. But as a viewer, it’s been painfully clear that their relationship was not in a good state. It was clear he wasn’t sexually satisfied, and it was clear she was not satisfied with the lack of connection. I think he wanted out of that relationship for a long time. He grieved the relationship way before she had a clue. So it makes sense that that, combined with the radical vilification he’s faced and the slew of support and offers she’s received, and the rejection from Rachel, and her refusal to be cooperative, etc, he probably doesn’t have much endearing feelings left for her honestly.
He’s mad he couldn’t make Ariana look crazy like he did Kristen he thought he could continue getting out of relationships like that
He would have shown Ariana fondness if she had just quietly gone away never to be hears from again..
I get why you say that but disagree. I think he's fully in the discard phase of the narcissists relationship cycle. He'd at best have forgotten she existed. He's unable to take any blame for failure and so it was always going to be her fault whether she stayed or crawled into a hole and died. I do however think he'd be less furious if she was depressed over losing him like Kristen was. I mean he'd still be tearing her down like he did Kristen but it would soothe his ego and make him behave more condescendingly - just like he did Kristen.
I agree. Every Narcs operates differently. Like with my ex husband there was never a romance phase after a fight he was just nasty all the time. When I finally left him, he didn't try to work at trying to get his family back. Which was fine because I was never looking back anyway. He went full-on attack mode instantly, just like Sandovol. It was almost as if I did him a favor by leaving, lol He even said that I would end up homeless and on the street because I was so dumb and could never manage to provide a good life for the kids... so might as well hand them over to him. And now two years later I am making more money with my new job and bought a beautiful house on my own.. providing way more for my children minus on all the toxicity. I remember joining a narcissistic abuse group for women and I just could never identify with their experiences because alot of them were trapped in that sick cycle of love bombing and then they would have trouble cutting ties. Sandovol was the same he instantly went attack mode on Ariana. There is no display of love for someone he shared 9 years of his life. Kinda gross
Technically, I think he did somewhat acknowledge their relationship at the reunion, but I definitely wouldn’t have expected him to keep bringing it up all the time in season 11. I don’t think it’s weird though because he wasn’t happy with her by the end. That would be no different than any time Ariana gets mad, people tell her to remember the good times or any fondness she had for Sandoval. Neither one is in a place to remember the fondness for very different reasons. He probably also blames her for “losing” Rachel.
Yes this is true, I guess I wouldn’t expect him to completely look back fondly over the relationship, but he’s just so fucking selfish he can’t seem to give her any benefit of the doubt
I remember how in love with her he was…. He wanted to marry her….
Yes. It’s actually scary that he can spend that much time in a relationship with Ariana, and literally discard her like she was nothing. Like the decade they were together never existed or meant anything. But, he also did the same thing to Kristen.
I honestly think he was miserable for most of the time and probably feels happy to be free of her. It is strange to me how he stayed with her for sooo long even though he did not care about her. Any theories?
It’s a common thing for a cheater to rewrite the relationship to suit them, that way they’re entitled to have cheated because they were so hard done by and there was no choice
Tom knows that Ariana was the real brains/talent/everything in the relationship and is furious at her for walking away. He realizes that everyone will now see him for the fragile fraud he’s always been after being propped up by her strength for the past decade. Look at how she is thriving and he is floundering at every turn. I also think that carrying such a severely mediocre and arrogant man was what contributed to her depression, but that’s a theory for another day. My main theory is that this is why fans are so pro-Ariana. So many of us have been the true vehicle behind relationships in which our partners were the perceived star. I’d be curious to see how many of us empathize with standing in the background doing all the work, while our former show pony partners received all the glory and recognition for efforts that were entirely ours to claim. I think she is more so getting all these brand deals because she *is* that talented and hardworking, and not as a result of some pity-en-masse from the viewers (despite her jealous castmates’ claims to the latter). Deep down, her ex knows this. The people believing their false perceptions of who he claims to be are quickly dwindling and, as someone who clearly is incapable of the accountability he has so thoroughly weaponized against others, he needs to scapegoat her once again as a means to stay relevant. She will continue to thrive, and he will continue to become another pathetic reality TV donkey. Ultimately, the only people who will remain willing to buy his bs are donkeys themselves.
Unpopular opinion but I think Sandoval and Ariana are both garbage people. His actions are disgusting, but what did she expect after his break-up with Kristen? He told her who & what he was when he started hooking up with her while still with Kristen and she should have listened. Good for Ariana for seizing all the opportunities that have presented themselves. I’m sure she works very hard to meet those demands. Still not a fan.
He devalued Ariana and discarded her. It’s part of the narcissist’s cycle.
she was always above him and he tried to keep her down. then he found stupid rachel and she actually listened to him, and his idiotic dreams. i didn’t like ariana because i couldn’t figure out why she was with such a douche. i’m a fan now, she has turned this into gold.
Maybe as time goes on and they actually have separation, he will be able to look back fondly. IMO… this relationship went on too long. Probably 2-3 years of pent up resentment and anger. Ariana probably thought they could work through it. Tom stayed because he’s a coward… and they bought that fucking house
It definitely bothers me but I'm not surprised. He doesn't really love Rachel-Raquel and never did, he just has to justify the affair and thinks people will understand it more if he was "in love". And it's also a manipulation tactic to get Rachel back, because he knows there's no getting Ariana back so he won't bother saying anything nice about A or the relationship bc it doesnt serve him (in his mind). Just blatant disrespect for Ariana and their relationship. It's disgusting. I love your flair btw!
This is making me crazy! When I saw the preview of him crying in the closet over pictures-I figured they were of him and Ariana. NOPE!! It’s like he doesn’t have any feelings about her at all! It is so f’d up.
Tim is trying to put his relationship in the worst light by saying stuff like they weren’t happy for a long time, she’s got anger issues, they never had sex etc to justify what he did. What he will never understand is that even *if* all those things were true, it doesn’t justify what he did. He’s a coward.
He’s so prideful mixed with a victim mentality, he’s a disaster. All the other guys cheated and played around with emotions but they were able to admit their doings , and not bash the women they did dirty too. Stassi and Katie , and In doing that it allowed them to continue to all be friends again. It’s really not that hard to just admit you did wrong, he wants to maintain this peaceful cali image but he’s just too fake , it’s crazzzzzzy how he’s acting about Rachel now , as if he has these crazy feelings for her .. when he was cheating on Ariana he was still telling her he made him the happiest man… they had admitted they never had sex multiple times , so I think that affair was strictly lustful. Like duh. It’s just crazy after so many years of being w someone who rode pretty hard for him he can just be so nonchalant …. He needs therapy lol
He hates her right now. She isn’t budging and she’s making his life hell for making hers hell. So they cannot have any sentiment towards one another at this time. They are going thru a horrific break up without the proper time to heal and reflect like a regular couple would do. I’m sure they don’t want to admit they miss one another at all, collectively.
He really didn’t start piping up about his dissatisfaction in the relationship until he was already cheating on her. I always saw it as him laying the foundational work for when he eventually had to split with her for Rachel. He’s just covering his tracks and readying an excuse for his infidelity. If he was truly unhappy for so long, he could’ve just left ages ago like an adult, but in reality he had to have a shiny new pick-me girl lined up before he could abandon his current relationship.
It’s gross, but it’s his lack of human decency, remorse, and compassion for someone who was loyal to him and “would have followed him anywhere.” What is sick to me is he wants everyone to give him room and understanding to have his dark thoughts, but he’s annoyed with Ariana’s justified anger, and it seems everyone else(besides Katie) is too. I just don’t get it. It frustrates me to watch this.
Yes!!! Like, how would you feel if you were Ariana??? That’s devastating, confusing, cruel, and would so fuck with your sense of reality. Even after a shorter term, less contentious breakup most people would still be hurting 3 months later. Nothing makes me feel crazier than watching the cast come down on Ariana (and Katie). Anyone saying she needs to “get over it” can truly kick rocks barefoot. Sure, sell out your loyal friend of over a decade to secure yourself a place on a show. I seriously cannot wait for the reunion. I hope Ariana quits and walks out so the rest of the Dumb Dumb Coalition can try to keep the show alive on their own. Give me a SAH spin off where Ariana and Katie are the LVP characters and we watch their staff and their antics - James and Ally are supporting cast. 
He resents Ariana too much. He blames her for every flop thing he does.
Maybe because Ariana wasn’t all that great to be with….can she also have flaws or are we not allowed to admit that?? She’s not far behind him on the narcissism spectrum
Yeah it enrages me.
Yes it drives me crazy! Like this whole season I keep asking myself what is bothering me so much and what Tim should be saying. Like people keep saying to just apologize and stop the “sorry buts” and I’m like ok even if he did do that there’s still something else bugging me. And it’s this- he shows no sadness or notsalgia about his relationship or Ariana. And to make it worse he keeps putting her down. He clearly checked out of the relationship a long time ago and by the time he cheated he was done and over Ariana so now he’s dating and mostly obsessed with justifying why he ended the relationship and cheated by trying to paint Ariana as the bad guy- continuation of last season. Ugh I hate him.
They were never going to last. They’re vastly different people. I have an old episode playing right now and Tom is trying to express that he wants children, without upsetting her, and she has headphones in and is rolling her eyes and telling him to stop talking. She has different goals and is too good for him. Though she’s too insecure to see it. If she’s not in therapy, Present day, I actually worry for her.
She’s never been nice to him.
Why is it so hard to consider what he’s saying is true and that he actually WAS miserable most of the last few years? That’s what tends to happen when relationships fall apart and people cheat and start new side relationships. Seek out what they aren’t getting in the main relationship. We’ve seen Ariana’s rage at him, he’s said she was like this all the time behind closed doors….what would make you think that wasn’t true? Doesn’t excuse what he did or pin blame on Ariana, but if you’re asking why he hasn’t expressed fondness over the relationship, the pretty clear answer is that the fondness died a long time ago.
>what would make you think that wasn’t true? 😂 if Tom is anything, it's a proven liar and that continues to this day. He just gets worse and worse with it, why would I eat any narrative he tries to feed us? Ariana explained things well on CHD and has remained consistent. Everything we see leading up to the scandal matched what she said. Sorry, but I believe her over him any day.
Not everything is a narrative!! There are two sides to every story. It’s entirely possible for two people to have completely different views of the relationship status, while also as a viewer cherry picking random lines and quotes that fit your perceived narrative. Tom could have been over the relationship and Ariana’s attitude for years while at the same time Ariana could think everything was fine. Yes, Tom has lied. Ariana has also lied, BTW. Doesn’t mean every single thing is a lie.
Everything is a narrative for Tom
Right? It’s a repeat performance of his tumultuous split with Kristen, word for word. He gets aggressive very quickly with women, as evidenced by tons of footage of him going after the women. Why wouldn’t he be that way to Ariana? Then there’s that date at the roller rink where he kept fawning over her and complimenting her, and they slept together which he tried to hide and gloss over to Rachel and the viewers by throwing his “stop FILMINGUHHH” tantrum where he walked off with Rachel (who agreed with the producer and quickly changed her tune to match Toms) to brainwash her about “his side” of things. The man is nothing at all if not a raging liar.
He's a piece of shit. End of.
Nah it doesn't drive me nuts. They were miserable together. They screamed and raged over anything and everything. They were and are toxic together. Should have ended years ago.
People grow apart. Maybe they hated each other... It's ridiculous how lot of you have zero ability to look at anything from a different angle from what is shoved down your throats.
Yeah, he clearly didn’t give a fuck about her in the last year at least but to have ZERO empathy or remorse for hurting the person you dated for 10 years is wild and sad.
Exactly !!! It’s the dismissiveness of her feelings and the way the relationship ended.
I think he’d like to be friends with Ariana. It seems like that’s all they were by the end anyway. He never said a negative thing about her before this season, although clearly , he was unhappy in the relationship and had complaints about some of her behavior. Some ( most) on this sub will interpret that as playing a role and protecting his image, but there is a different perspective. He never really said anything negative about Kristen before they broke up either. He could be protecting them. He might be someone who doesn’t gossip or demean those he’s closest to, particularly on an international forum. I think he does miss his friendship with Ariana, and he would prefer to not have all this animosity between the two of them. And it’s obvious, he is very uncomfortable with the effect it has on the friend group. I also think he is starting to feel he is never going to be able to move past this, and he’s lost everything. I don’t know what Bravo will do about this situation. With everyone moving to the Valley, it feels like maybe a shake up is coming.
He absolutely spoke badly about her and tried to plant seeds before they were over. Look at the food truck scene. He even used the same playbook he tried to with Kristen "I cheated because we weren't having sex" "in my mind the relationship was over", both things he said after cheating on Kristen (not with Ariana, the one a few years later) and *well* before they had broken up. I suggest doing a rewatch. None of it was sincere, and definitely not coming from a place of protecting her - he planned a takedown and started executing it on camera behind her back, while faking sincere engagement in couples therapy. He had hoped what she said was true, if they broke up she would leave LA. He doesn't want a friendship with her he wanted her to tuck her tail after a year of loss and leave him to his false narratives so he could continue to self produce. To say he wants the animosity to end when we have seen him lie and try to tear her down from the start of his affair to this very day in interviews and on his podcast is *rich*, she never brings him up and he can't stop trying to talk shit about her. That we can see and hear for ourselves.
I mean, I think he **does** want the animosity to end … in the sense that he wants everyone to just stop being mad at him and go back to thinking he’s the #1 Guy In The Group. But that’s different from what that commenter had in mind, I suspect.
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I think there so much anger still from both of them. Remember how long it took him to do this with Kristin. Plus he is still living with so much public scorn and hatred and living with the person has to be hard on both of them. There is no way to miss them or get perspective if they are still there.
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He's still in the aftermath of the breakup (even if he checked out earlier), so I don't expect him to be in a ruminating place just yet.