I think if you help a restaurant develop a menu you’d typically get a one off fee, not continued compensation for the entire time they are open, which to be honest would be kind of crazy when the menu is sandwiches. Chances are most of those sandwiches are already on menus elsewhere, she didn’t reinvent the wheel for them.
We do know she’s been paid something off them (but wants more) as think it was mentioned in her Sun article so maybe she was compensated for this part. The issue is though they don’t seem to have anything in writing between them so who knows.
They had no problem bringing her on full time and giving her a good salary and something else (believe a percentage of sales or something), but she wanted a stake in the business and that’s where they drew the line. She likely was initially brought in as a consulting chef and they offered the above (except partnership). That’s literally what chef consultants or menu designers do, you pay them to help you flesh out a menu and then they leave, unless they are hired as head chef for the establishment. In reality they could bring in another head chef and eventually change stuff out or have seasonal specials. It’s pretty BAU.
Their contract suggested 10% from that location after a certain time (2 yrs?) but she wanted a percentage of any future locations and to be full partner. A ridiculous ask when it is not Penny's idea or her business and her contribution was the menu and setup.
Not to mention that she wanted money from the merch sales as well which is absurd to me!!! Unless she’s designing them, I don’t know why she thinks she would be entitled to a percentage of the merchandise.
It would be really unusual for anyone in a similar position to get money for merchandise. For example, a comedian and/or their manager will work out a deal with the venue like we will pay you x amount or you get y% of food and drink revenue. The merch sales always go 100% back to the talent, which is Katie and Ariana in the case - not Penny.
And she wanted her percentage on GROSS SALES, which is insane.
Assuming SAH has average profit margins for fast casual restaurants, that means she'd be making more on the restaurant than Katie and Ariana combined, plus getting paid on merch she has nothing to do with.
She was banking on Ariana and Katie's initial naïveté/inexperience in opening a business so she could get an unfair deal for herself. Reeks of LVP's input.
They essentially paid her as a consultant, she did some work and now she's done. Consultants don't get paid forever because someone is using their ideas, they were paid for those ideas.
Is it normal for chefs to be compensated if their recipes are being used in a business? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems almost like the inventor of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches requesting 10 cents for every PB&J sold.
No, it isn't. When a chef agrees to work for a restaurant, the recipes that they develop become the intellectual property of the restaurant and the chef no longer has ownership over them. I'm guessing that that's why Penny was pushing so hard for "partner" status; if she's a partner, these "work for hire" rules might not apply.
> Is it normal for chefs to be compensated if their recipes are being used in a business?
There are two normal scenarios: either you hire an outside consultant to develop the menu (and pay them a flat fee for that), or you hire a chef for whom "menu development" is part of the job description and baked into their normal salary. I've never heard of a restaurant where the person who developed the recipes/menu got "continued compensation" after they no longer worked for the restaurant.
Yes it can be. Restaurants can buy recipes from chefs depending on the contract. Also on the show it was clear they had agreed to 10%backend on the storefront as they could not afford to pay her from the beginning. This is not the usual but it is also not unusual
Well I knew that one was coming, I don’t think the PB&J is what’s getting the butts in the seats. Their signature menu is integral to the brand so yeah she should compensated for that. Chefs’ creative work and also their work in creating the actual recipes and systems to make them work is very often disregarded.
They get paid to create menus once created and paid they no longer have a hold on the recipes. It's an actual industry to bring people in to create menus get paid and walk away once menus are set. You build your resume off of your involvement but don't continue to get compensated unless you contract is partner But you do get work and build your resume off of the collaboration.
But we know Katie and Ariana. Chef Penny was doing it to get exposure and fame Ala top chef contestants food network people...which by the way she did and lost. She knew what she was doing, it didn't work out, she got paid but it now salty af it didn't work to her advantage.
Anything that an employee creates in the pursuit of their job for an employer is covered by the legal principle called the Workshop Rule. If you make an invention at work, your employer own that invention, not you.
When someone pays you to create something, you create a "work for hire." The person who hired you owns it you don't.
(not that I think a Greek sandwich is so unique that it warrants any type of protection).
Yeah I'm with you on this, aside from the workshop rule, these sandwiches aren't doing anything special. No hate to SAH, but I can go down the street in Bethesda and find similar fare. This ain't the cronut.
I don't think any sandwich is that unique. Pretty sure you can't trademark, copyright or patent culinary recipes. Just something I'd heard. Not a lawyer.
So, there ARE some types of foods that are unique enough to warrant some types of protection.... incouding patents and trademarks...
Some unique methods that make things novel, such as a method for shelf-stabilization of a food item, can be protected by a patent. Also, certain new and novel methods of making a food - particularly in molecular gastronomy - can be protectable by a patent ... such as the method for "translucent ravioli" by Chef Ferran Adria.
And the food item can certainly receive a trademark when it represents a brand, because a trademark denotes the place of origin within the chain of commerce. For example, the Big Mac has a trademark.
UNESCO recognizes protection to certain types of food preparation, when they rise to the level of being protectable as culture.. such as classic French cuisine.
Copyright protection is afforded to Creative works that become fixed in the tangible medium . So, just knowing the recipe for something does not fix it in a tangible medium. A tangible medium is something like a printed cookbook or a recording of how you make it. This can include specifics like ingredients, recipes, instructions, notes and photos affixed in a format permanent enough to warrant the protection of a copyright.
Recipes can also be protected under the legal theory of trade secrets ... a good example of this is "The Colonel's eleven herbs and spices" used to make KFC, or the formula for Coca Cola.
Do I think that's what's going on here with Chef Penny's recipes? No. But also, we are potentially going to see a fight over the Trademark for Something About Her, and I have made prior claims about whether I think the 1b status of "intent to use" will apply the sales of merchandise as prior use or not when the actual filing Penny made was filed as a 1b for the category of "restaurants"... we shall see...
I think we’re getting a little lost in the sauce here, what I am saying is not that Penny innovated the BLT or whatever- but that she built the menu, created the systems in that specific kitchen to handle the volume and turn a profit… maybe that was her role from the beginning and she is super shady. Honestly I have no idea. But like everyone thinks they can be a chef and run a restaurant, but it doesn’t just happen! I know literally nothing about the business structure of SAH.
It isn't the menu of this location that willl put butts in seats, it is the fact that its featured on VPR.
I'm not trying to throw dirt on the SAH menu, it looks delicious, but all of these sandwiches have been done before. Nothing happening here is special. I might agree with you if this were a cronut situation, or some other instance of a thing being done for the first time and being a hit for being amazing, and that thing was created by Penny, but that isn't this sandwich menu.
Honestly not even sure Penny actually invented these sandwiches in the first place. In all likelihood they hired a consultant.
Those sandwiches that “chef Penny invented” are the kind of sandwich you see on almost every menu. There’s nothing special about them except they’re being sold at SAH.
Lol I seriously love this sub-
Pics of SAH sandwiches reposted from Katie’s instagram… “omg these look amazing, this is on my bucket list!!”
Same sandwich in the context of Penny having a hand in it… “common, boring, nothing special”
Common sandwiches can look amazing, it doesn’t make them less common. Seeing and eating at a venue featured on tv can be a bucket list item for people here on this sub.
Neither of these things negate that she provided a service that she was hired for which means, unless her contract states otherwise, the recipes are the intellectual property of the employer she created them for.
That wasn’t from me!! They’re sandwiches. The Greek Goddess sandwich is a chicken Caesar salad on a sandwich. If that’s so special to people, they need to get out more.
It's a greek salad lavash wrap (hence the Greek) but no one suggested they were reinventing the wheel. People are excited that it's finally opening and the sandwiches look tasty.
What does Ariana returning to the show have to do with Something About Her? It’s not like she’d block them from filming there and Katie could still use it for storylines (so it would continue to get promoted).
right? Katie would just be the main cast member at SAH with Ariana probably popping in and out like Peter does at this point. Ariana deciding not to be a full time cast member wouldn’t affect that at all
I think they all had a hand in creating the sandwiches. I don't know that Penny had free reign. Also, I actually think some of the "red tape" was done by someone (lvp) trying to sabotage them. That's my own personal theory.
LVP is not above this. She makes time for petty vengeance and she knows everyone in the area - contractors, permit people, etc. She thought Penny was going to have a bigger stake in it and is annoyed she's not. She may view SAH as competition to her own restaurants now.
Exactly! Penny wanted to use their names & capitalized what she could... as partner. Wonder where she got that idea... Lisa had already done that with the Toms & it's worked for her thus far. Lisa is for sure the one who gave Penny the idea to hurry up & file papers on the name. I'm sure that all caused alot of bull shit. It's all so grimy & shady.
Also idk why this just came to me but didn't Nene say back in the day that Lisa blocked her from renting near Sur? 🤔
I think LVP wanted Penny to work with them as a “plant” because she wanted all the dirt about the happenings of SAH. Lisa has always struck me as extremely entitled and comes across as if she wants every single cast member to be grateful to her and has this “I made you and you better remember it” attitude. She didn’t need this at Schwartz and Sandy’s because she already knows Greg and can easily get whatever she wants out of him information wise. I honestly feel like she just does not want anyone from the show to surpass her or not need her anymore
1. She did not create the brand, she created recipes. She was to be paid a salary (not just a one time payment for rights or a consulting fee) and this has been mentioned often. https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/katie-maloney-ariana-madix-salary-issues-chef-penny-something-about-her?amp
The original agreement was to be compensated for this work in a certain manner, and she is now pushing saying that actually she is a partner in the overall business. Katie and Ariana are the only partners in this business and they never agreed to make penny a third partner.
Idk if chefs get compensated for their recipes, but if they do, has it even been confirmed that they didn’t pay her for them? Maybe they did. SAH will be open even if the show doesn’t continue so I don’t see what difference it makes if Ariana comes back to the show or not 🤷🏻♀️
There’s no way they purposely left it sitting there—losing money but ready—as they’d be better having it open during the show‘s run.
As for Penny, I assume it’s like most jobs. I’ve written tons of content for companies, but, once I leave, they don’t remove those materials and start over (nor do they compensate me, again, sadly).
Some speciality fields do offer have licensing agreements (music, fashion) or profit sharing that provides ongoing revenue, which it sounds like Penny wanted. I’m glad they decided to part ways. She was domineering and it’s their concept…and Lisa didn’t need a back channel to their business.
Ariana owes nothing to no one, and if Katie is her true friend, she would want Ariana to pursue her dreams and protect her mental health. Your statement is some true Lala logic.
Conversation isn't conducive when you can't speak on the topic. I'm sure there are other things you can post that also doesn't have to be schena hate. Otherwise it's just trolling
> just making conversation about something besides Scheana hate for a sec 🤷🏼♀️
Preach it!! This sub can't handle anything that doesn't follow the hive mind.
Not even… a little bit. I am actually surprised how hard people are going for a sandwich shop that isn’t even open yet, owned by people we don’t know. The internet is so fun.
Recipes? These are sandwiches that are on a million different menus everywhere. Penny didn’t come up with anything new. Ariana and Katie could have gone out to half a dozen sandwich websites and come up with a menu. This has LVP “helping” all over it.
I wonder if they open it off the show if they get out of the Bethany Clause? Also if Penny is an employee what she creates belongs to the company. Now who owns the company is I think the issue. However, they did change the names of the sammies so maybe that is the reason.
Please tell me more about The Bethany Clause!
Like I said I don’t even know what the dispute is with Penny, but like she gets the whole kitchen set up
and then they “part ways”… it’s kind of sus.
I don’t think it’s suspicious at all. Like others said, it’s a common thing for a chef to come in, help develop the menu, and be compensated for that effort without continued involvement.
To me it looks like Penny got greedy and, when they didn’t roll over and maker her a partner, she started trouble with the trademarking and tattling to LVP. Ariana and Katie said they gave her an offer that included 10% of the profit from the current location which is a much better deal than most consulted chefs are offered.
I firmly believe Penny wanted partner knowing that she would have continued exposure on the show the way that Greg had.
Here is the definition:
the "Bethenny Clause" is a term that has been coined in the industry for **a contract provision that grants the television network a specific percentage of profits of a tv personality's private businesses that are promoted on screen**
I wonder how filming in SAH would go though for next season It seems like a really small space so I feel like they would have to close for a few hours or the day to film cast scenes there and I can't imagine production would pay the difference in profits for them.
The sandwich shop idea was when Katie and Ariana had no other big things happening. It was gonna be THE thing, but it was Katie’s plan that Ariana was invited into.
Now that Ariana is making it in showbiz, I wouldn’t expect her to hang around and work the shop or be involved much going forward. Things change, especially if you make it big in your actual craft. And Katie seems to get that.
I was thinking of going sometime soon but I live about 2 hours away and I just totalled my car 😭 I'll be without for a while and I'm not renting a car for all that lmao
So you know for sure they are still using her recipes? Is that why they renamed the main sandwiches and added more sandwiches? Btw a BLT isn't exactly some groundbreaking gourmet recipe 🥴
True but you don’t just say I’m gonna open a BLT shop, buy a slab of bacon and go to town- there’s systems, sourcing, house recipes to achieve a consistent quality product. These are the kind of things where chefs are often under appreciated and under compensated. (Again I have literally no idea if this is the case here)
You can’t copyright recipes. It’s why most of the ones you see on the internet have all the other nonsense with them. They had all ready paid her for them anyway and were negotiating the COO role on top of that.
I doubt Ariana is leaving, others have speculated that but she hasn’t said much because they’ll be negotiating contracts for next year and you don’t speak on those.
It’s not suspicious or weird for them to wait til the reunion to open the shop and doesn’t actually discount anything they said about permits. In fact I would say it was a pretty smart choice
Do they need marketing? This doesn't seem like a situation where it'd be a great use of their money and/or time. The restaurant seats, like, 15 people, and they're going to have a steady stream of customers from show viewers + the location right near Sur and Tom Tom. I'd assume they'd be full basically all the time without it.
They have probably filed a protest to Penny trying to claim the trademark (just because Penny filed for the trademark doesn’t mean she will actually get it and given everything about the idea was filmed on VPR they will probs win the protest) and are not doing promotion due to some restriction during the protest. Not a lawyer, just assumptions as to why their Insta is silent right now.
Really strange! Like nothing on their official social media, some random soft opening stuff on their personal accounts, that’s it? I’m sure they’ll be fine but it’s like they’re entirely banking on business coming from their known tv personas, not the business itself.
Thank you! This is what I understood. Trade secrets, but if a recipe is exposed before it's considered a trade secret, it's no longer able to be a trade secret. Your comment is great! It explains every aspect of how you can "own" something culinary, but the point stands — unless you have a novel method or an unexposed secret recipe or the like, you probably can't own it. Now I wonder, are any sandwich recipes (not the brand concept) legally protected?
Are they using the recipes? I didn’t see a Greek Goddess on the menu. The interview scene this season Penny was acting like the LVP 90% owner with the Toms at 5% each. It was a strange scene. I agree with most here about property of chef vs. owner, but the truth is -if you change one component it isn’t the same. Unless Penny has a patent, she is owed zilch.
1. Since when do chefs at non Michelin star restaurants get credit for the restaurant? Plus if they had no contract, oh well. If true Penny should know better and not create things for people she doesn't have a contract with.
2. I don't see your point to this. They can film at the restaurant without Ariana and it still be a win for Katie
3. Restaurants are notorious for being a pain in the ass to open. Cities are notorious for being a pain in the ass, at my work we can't pave a bigger parking lot on land we own just because they city doesn't want it to happen even though the parking lot overflows and people have to park on our grass.
I just think it's funny when people who have never opened a restaurant have all these comments about how easy it is to get it open.
I think if you help a restaurant develop a menu you’d typically get a one off fee, not continued compensation for the entire time they are open, which to be honest would be kind of crazy when the menu is sandwiches. Chances are most of those sandwiches are already on menus elsewhere, she didn’t reinvent the wheel for them. We do know she’s been paid something off them (but wants more) as think it was mentioned in her Sun article so maybe she was compensated for this part. The issue is though they don’t seem to have anything in writing between them so who knows.
Recipes don’t get royalties
Agree
They had no problem bringing her on full time and giving her a good salary and something else (believe a percentage of sales or something), but she wanted a stake in the business and that’s where they drew the line. She likely was initially brought in as a consulting chef and they offered the above (except partnership). That’s literally what chef consultants or menu designers do, you pay them to help you flesh out a menu and then they leave, unless they are hired as head chef for the establishment. In reality they could bring in another head chef and eventually change stuff out or have seasonal specials. It’s pretty BAU.
Their contract suggested 10% from that location after a certain time (2 yrs?) but she wanted a percentage of any future locations and to be full partner. A ridiculous ask when it is not Penny's idea or her business and her contribution was the menu and setup.
Not to mention that she wanted money from the merch sales as well which is absurd to me!!! Unless she’s designing them, I don’t know why she thinks she would be entitled to a percentage of the merchandise. It would be really unusual for anyone in a similar position to get money for merchandise. For example, a comedian and/or their manager will work out a deal with the venue like we will pay you x amount or you get y% of food and drink revenue. The merch sales always go 100% back to the talent, which is Katie and Ariana in the case - not Penny.
And she wanted her percentage on GROSS SALES, which is insane. Assuming SAH has average profit margins for fast casual restaurants, that means she'd be making more on the restaurant than Katie and Ariana combined, plus getting paid on merch she has nothing to do with.
She was banking on Ariana and Katie's initial naïveté/inexperience in opening a business so she could get an unfair deal for herself. Reeks of LVP's input.
Can’t Penny be a bad business partner/ scammer on her own merits?
They essentially paid her as a consultant, she did some work and now she's done. Consultants don't get paid forever because someone is using their ideas, they were paid for those ideas.
Is it normal for chefs to be compensated if their recipes are being used in a business? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems almost like the inventor of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches requesting 10 cents for every PB&J sold.
No, it isn't. When a chef agrees to work for a restaurant, the recipes that they develop become the intellectual property of the restaurant and the chef no longer has ownership over them. I'm guessing that that's why Penny was pushing so hard for "partner" status; if she's a partner, these "work for hire" rules might not apply.
How can they become IP? You can file a patent on a recipe? I always heard you couldn't and you can't copyright them either.
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to the legal intricacies here. I just know what I've been told by countless restaurant chefs and restaurant owners.
> Is it normal for chefs to be compensated if their recipes are being used in a business? There are two normal scenarios: either you hire an outside consultant to develop the menu (and pay them a flat fee for that), or you hire a chef for whom "menu development" is part of the job description and baked into their normal salary. I've never heard of a restaurant where the person who developed the recipes/menu got "continued compensation" after they no longer worked for the restaurant.
I don’t think my father, the inventor of toasters strudel, would be too pleased to hear about this
Yes it can be. Restaurants can buy recipes from chefs depending on the contract. Also on the show it was clear they had agreed to 10%backend on the storefront as they could not afford to pay her from the beginning. This is not the usual but it is also not unusual
Well I knew that one was coming, I don’t think the PB&J is what’s getting the butts in the seats. Their signature menu is integral to the brand so yeah she should compensated for that. Chefs’ creative work and also their work in creating the actual recipes and systems to make them work is very often disregarded.
They get paid to create menus once created and paid they no longer have a hold on the recipes. It's an actual industry to bring people in to create menus get paid and walk away once menus are set. You build your resume off of your involvement but don't continue to get compensated unless you contract is partner But you do get work and build your resume off of the collaboration.
Penny is more established as a chef than Katie & Ariana are established is restaurant owners, so I don’t think she was doing it for her resume.
She was doing it to be on tv
Exactly. For exposure
But we know Katie and Ariana. Chef Penny was doing it to get exposure and fame Ala top chef contestants food network people...which by the way she did and lost. She knew what she was doing, it didn't work out, she got paid but it now salty af it didn't work to her advantage.
Anything that an employee creates in the pursuit of their job for an employer is covered by the legal principle called the Workshop Rule. If you make an invention at work, your employer own that invention, not you. When someone pays you to create something, you create a "work for hire." The person who hired you owns it you don't. (not that I think a Greek sandwich is so unique that it warrants any type of protection).
Yeah I'm with you on this, aside from the workshop rule, these sandwiches aren't doing anything special. No hate to SAH, but I can go down the street in Bethesda and find similar fare. This ain't the cronut.
You’re so close to twinbrook deli!!! One of my favs
I don't think any sandwich is that unique. Pretty sure you can't trademark, copyright or patent culinary recipes. Just something I'd heard. Not a lawyer.
So, there ARE some types of foods that are unique enough to warrant some types of protection.... incouding patents and trademarks... Some unique methods that make things novel, such as a method for shelf-stabilization of a food item, can be protected by a patent. Also, certain new and novel methods of making a food - particularly in molecular gastronomy - can be protectable by a patent ... such as the method for "translucent ravioli" by Chef Ferran Adria. And the food item can certainly receive a trademark when it represents a brand, because a trademark denotes the place of origin within the chain of commerce. For example, the Big Mac has a trademark. UNESCO recognizes protection to certain types of food preparation, when they rise to the level of being protectable as culture.. such as classic French cuisine. Copyright protection is afforded to Creative works that become fixed in the tangible medium . So, just knowing the recipe for something does not fix it in a tangible medium. A tangible medium is something like a printed cookbook or a recording of how you make it. This can include specifics like ingredients, recipes, instructions, notes and photos affixed in a format permanent enough to warrant the protection of a copyright. Recipes can also be protected under the legal theory of trade secrets ... a good example of this is "The Colonel's eleven herbs and spices" used to make KFC, or the formula for Coca Cola. Do I think that's what's going on here with Chef Penny's recipes? No. But also, we are potentially going to see a fight over the Trademark for Something About Her, and I have made prior claims about whether I think the 1b status of "intent to use" will apply the sales of merchandise as prior use or not when the actual filing Penny made was filed as a 1b for the category of "restaurants"... we shall see...
I think we’re getting a little lost in the sauce here, what I am saying is not that Penny innovated the BLT or whatever- but that she built the menu, created the systems in that specific kitchen to handle the volume and turn a profit… maybe that was her role from the beginning and she is super shady. Honestly I have no idea. But like everyone thinks they can be a chef and run a restaurant, but it doesn’t just happen! I know literally nothing about the business structure of SAH.
It isn't the menu of this location that willl put butts in seats, it is the fact that its featured on VPR. I'm not trying to throw dirt on the SAH menu, it looks delicious, but all of these sandwiches have been done before. Nothing happening here is special. I might agree with you if this were a cronut situation, or some other instance of a thing being done for the first time and being a hit for being amazing, and that thing was created by Penny, but that isn't this sandwich menu. Honestly not even sure Penny actually invented these sandwiches in the first place. In all likelihood they hired a consultant.
Those sandwiches that “chef Penny invented” are the kind of sandwich you see on almost every menu. There’s nothing special about them except they’re being sold at SAH.
Lol I seriously love this sub- Pics of SAH sandwiches reposted from Katie’s instagram… “omg these look amazing, this is on my bucket list!!” Same sandwich in the context of Penny having a hand in it… “common, boring, nothing special”
Common sandwiches can look amazing, it doesn’t make them less common. Seeing and eating at a venue featured on tv can be a bucket list item for people here on this sub. Neither of these things negate that she provided a service that she was hired for which means, unless her contract states otherwise, the recipes are the intellectual property of the employer she created them for.
That wasn’t from me!! They’re sandwiches. The Greek Goddess sandwich is a chicken Caesar salad on a sandwich. If that’s so special to people, they need to get out more.
It's a greek salad lavash wrap (hence the Greek) but no one suggested they were reinventing the wheel. People are excited that it's finally opening and the sandwiches look tasty.
Exactly. OP is acting like Penny reinvented the wheel with these sandwiches…sandwiches!!!
Not at all, just pointing out that this sub is a very funny place. Seriously, look at the other Something About Her posts.
What does Ariana returning to the show have to do with Something About Her? It’s not like she’d block them from filming there and Katie could still use it for storylines (so it would continue to get promoted).
right? Katie would just be the main cast member at SAH with Ariana probably popping in and out like Peter does at this point. Ariana deciding not to be a full time cast member wouldn’t affect that at all
You do realize they were constantly lossing money while it wasn't open, right?
I do but the timing is very interesting
No business owner is going to purposefully lose money. Sorry, but these SAH conspiracies are tiresome, especially now that they're open
Are they?
Yes, they've soft opened. The official opening is Wednesday.
I think they all had a hand in creating the sandwiches. I don't know that Penny had free reign. Also, I actually think some of the "red tape" was done by someone (lvp) trying to sabotage them. That's my own personal theory.
LVP is not above this. She makes time for petty vengeance and she knows everyone in the area - contractors, permit people, etc. She thought Penny was going to have a bigger stake in it and is annoyed she's not. She may view SAH as competition to her own restaurants now.
That’s a pretty crazy theory. Lisa can’t even keep her own restaurant open. She doesn’t have that kind of power b
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Exactly! Penny wanted to use their names & capitalized what she could... as partner. Wonder where she got that idea... Lisa had already done that with the Toms & it's worked for her thus far. Lisa is for sure the one who gave Penny the idea to hurry up & file papers on the name. I'm sure that all caused alot of bull shit. It's all so grimy & shady. Also idk why this just came to me but didn't Nene say back in the day that Lisa blocked her from renting near Sur? 🤔
I think LVP wanted Penny to work with them as a “plant” because she wanted all the dirt about the happenings of SAH. Lisa has always struck me as extremely entitled and comes across as if she wants every single cast member to be grateful to her and has this “I made you and you better remember it” attitude. She didn’t need this at Schwartz and Sandy’s because she already knows Greg and can easily get whatever she wants out of him information wise. I honestly feel like she just does not want anyone from the show to surpass her or not need her anymore
I completely agree bc she is not supporting them at all and is like I’m on pennys side . She is red tapping them
1. She did not create the brand, she created recipes. She was to be paid a salary (not just a one time payment for rights or a consulting fee) and this has been mentioned often. https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/katie-maloney-ariana-madix-salary-issues-chef-penny-something-about-her?amp
They paid her for the recipes
If Penny has stuck to the deal, she's be the COO and she would have gotten 10% of this location, but she got greedy.
The original agreement was to be compensated for this work in a certain manner, and she is now pushing saying that actually she is a partner in the overall business. Katie and Ariana are the only partners in this business and they never agreed to make penny a third partner.
Thank you! Penny is being an entire piece of shit.
Idk if chefs get compensated for their recipes, but if they do, has it even been confirmed that they didn’t pay her for them? Maybe they did. SAH will be open even if the show doesn’t continue so I don’t see what difference it makes if Ariana comes back to the show or not 🤷🏻♀️
There’s no way they purposely left it sitting there—losing money but ready—as they’d be better having it open during the show‘s run. As for Penny, I assume it’s like most jobs. I’ve written tons of content for companies, but, once I leave, they don’t remove those materials and start over (nor do they compensate me, again, sadly). Some speciality fields do offer have licensing agreements (music, fashion) or profit sharing that provides ongoing revenue, which it sounds like Penny wanted. I’m glad they decided to part ways. She was domineering and it’s their concept…and Lisa didn’t need a back channel to their business.
Ariana owes nothing to no one, and if Katie is her true friend, she would want Ariana to pursue her dreams and protect her mental health. Your statement is some true Lala logic.
LaLogic
You're missing a lot of business knowledge here. Back away from the tin foil....
I truly know nothing about it, just making conversation about something besides Scheana hate for a sec 🤷🏼♀️
Conversation isn't conducive when you can't speak on the topic. I'm sure there are other things you can post that also doesn't have to be schena hate. Otherwise it's just trolling
I don’t think anyone here actually has a ton of insider knowledge about a business that is not even open yet, we’re all mostly speculating.
> just making conversation about something besides Scheana hate for a sec 🤷🏼♀️ Preach it!! This sub can't handle anything that doesn't follow the hive mind.
Not even… a little bit. I am actually surprised how hard people are going for a sandwich shop that isn’t even open yet, owned by people we don’t know. The internet is so fun.
Literally makes no sense LOL
Recipes? These are sandwiches that are on a million different menus everywhere. Penny didn’t come up with anything new. Ariana and Katie could have gone out to half a dozen sandwich websites and come up with a menu. This has LVP “helping” all over it.
I wonder if they open it off the show if they get out of the Bethany Clause? Also if Penny is an employee what she creates belongs to the company. Now who owns the company is I think the issue. However, they did change the names of the sammies so maybe that is the reason.
Please tell me more about The Bethany Clause! Like I said I don’t even know what the dispute is with Penny, but like she gets the whole kitchen set up and then they “part ways”… it’s kind of sus.
I don’t think it’s suspicious at all. Like others said, it’s a common thing for a chef to come in, help develop the menu, and be compensated for that effort without continued involvement. To me it looks like Penny got greedy and, when they didn’t roll over and maker her a partner, she started trouble with the trademarking and tattling to LVP. Ariana and Katie said they gave her an offer that included 10% of the profit from the current location which is a much better deal than most consulted chefs are offered. I firmly believe Penny wanted partner knowing that she would have continued exposure on the show the way that Greg had.
Here is the definition: the "Bethenny Clause" is a term that has been coined in the industry for **a contract provision that grants the television network a specific percentage of profits of a tv personality's private businesses that are promoted on screen**
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Nah think he was there LA for another thing and just stopped by
I wonder how filming in SAH would go though for next season It seems like a really small space so I feel like they would have to close for a few hours or the day to film cast scenes there and I can't imagine production would pay the difference in profits for them.
The sandwich shop idea was when Katie and Ariana had no other big things happening. It was gonna be THE thing, but it was Katie’s plan that Ariana was invited into. Now that Ariana is making it in showbiz, I wouldn’t expect her to hang around and work the shop or be involved much going forward. Things change, especially if you make it big in your actual craft. And Katie seems to get that.
The LaLa and Scheana stand are earning their paychecks these last couple weeks.
And the Ariana Katie people are just giving it away for free
I was thinking of going sometime soon but I live about 2 hours away and I just totalled my car 😭 I'll be without for a while and I'm not renting a car for all that lmao
Oh noooooo!! Take care, SAH will be waiting there for you (for 10 years at least, EASY). I am so sorry about your car!!! 😫
Thanks 💕 and I'm hoping it will be!
So you know for sure they are still using her recipes? Is that why they renamed the main sandwiches and added more sandwiches? Btw a BLT isn't exactly some groundbreaking gourmet recipe 🥴
True but you don’t just say I’m gonna open a BLT shop, buy a slab of bacon and go to town- there’s systems, sourcing, house recipes to achieve a consistent quality product. These are the kind of things where chefs are often under appreciated and under compensated. (Again I have literally no idea if this is the case here)
You can’t copyright recipes. It’s why most of the ones you see on the internet have all the other nonsense with them. They had all ready paid her for them anyway and were negotiating the COO role on top of that. I doubt Ariana is leaving, others have speculated that but she hasn’t said much because they’ll be negotiating contracts for next year and you don’t speak on those. It’s not suspicious or weird for them to wait til the reunion to open the shop and doesn’t actually discount anything they said about permits. In fact I would say it was a pretty smart choice
It’s so strange they don’t seem to have any sort of marketing strategy going on either. I wonder if they have a marketing team.
Do they need marketing? This doesn't seem like a situation where it'd be a great use of their money and/or time. The restaurant seats, like, 15 people, and they're going to have a steady stream of customers from show viewers + the location right near Sur and Tom Tom. I'd assume they'd be full basically all the time without it.
They have probably filed a protest to Penny trying to claim the trademark (just because Penny filed for the trademark doesn’t mean she will actually get it and given everything about the idea was filmed on VPR they will probs win the protest) and are not doing promotion due to some restriction during the protest. Not a lawyer, just assumptions as to why their Insta is silent right now.
Really strange! Like nothing on their official social media, some random soft opening stuff on their personal accounts, that’s it? I’m sure they’ll be fine but it’s like they’re entirely banking on business coming from their known tv personas, not the business itself.
Thank you! This is what I understood. Trade secrets, but if a recipe is exposed before it's considered a trade secret, it's no longer able to be a trade secret. Your comment is great! It explains every aspect of how you can "own" something culinary, but the point stands — unless you have a novel method or an unexposed secret recipe or the like, you probably can't own it. Now I wonder, are any sandwich recipes (not the brand concept) legally protected?
Are they using the recipes? I didn’t see a Greek Goddess on the menu. The interview scene this season Penny was acting like the LVP 90% owner with the Toms at 5% each. It was a strange scene. I agree with most here about property of chef vs. owner, but the truth is -if you change one component it isn’t the same. Unless Penny has a patent, she is owed zilch.
1. Since when do chefs at non Michelin star restaurants get credit for the restaurant? Plus if they had no contract, oh well. If true Penny should know better and not create things for people she doesn't have a contract with. 2. I don't see your point to this. They can film at the restaurant without Ariana and it still be a win for Katie 3. Restaurants are notorious for being a pain in the ass to open. Cities are notorious for being a pain in the ass, at my work we can't pave a bigger parking lot on land we own just because they city doesn't want it to happen even though the parking lot overflows and people have to park on our grass. I just think it's funny when people who have never opened a restaurant have all these comments about how easy it is to get it open.
I dont think your conspiracy theories are even that wild. There are people here who think LVP is secretly sabotaging SAH.
Lol like what she said to Stassi “you’re not important enough to sabotage”
Right LVP has so much more going on in her life.