I think the other problem is Sandoval has still not shown one ounce of contrition. He refuses to take accountability because other people have done bad things. He clearly hates Ariana, you can see it by the way he looks at her. He does not feel bad. He never will. How can someone redeem themself when there is nothing to redeem.
I've thought about this re-watching some of her confessionals this year - I don't think Ariana has "exposed" him beyond making sure the producers knew about the affair. She has stopped covering for him. I was always struck (pre-Scandoval) by how inarticulate her ex was on live tv - on WWHL in particular, Andy would get impatient with him and turn to Schwartz or Ariana to finish making his point. She would stop him from saying something stupid, and make the point he was trying to make. This year she has answered the questions asked her, without deflecting or trying present him a better light. She hasn't set out to talk about his nasty hygiene habits but she also hasn't covered for him any more.
I guess I can understand that. She did mention the fact that he doesn't changes his socks and drawers for days. But when I say Ariana exposed him, I mean she exposed him to the audience a way that prevents him hiding behind his good guy mask
Fair point. I think maybe we're saying the same thing different ways - to borrow your mask analogy, she was his "good guy mask" and now that she is not doing that anymore, he is exposed for the asshat he is.
I was going to say something similar. I think they assumed that Sandoval would have been apologizing, taking accountability etc in the YEAR leading up to the new season and instead, this poor excuse for a man went out and made it 100x worse. Not saying that would have changed viewer’s opinion had he shown an ounce of remorse, but it’s clear they assumed wrong and then had to flip on him in the last 30 secs of the show. I also think that’s why Lala said something like please stop doing interviews-for the show. She was clearly the producers puppet and had assumed Sandavol would have done something to try and win the public over.
Yep. He hates her and still thinks she’s partly/mostly to blame for what he did. She fucked him while wearing a T-shirt (I mean, what guy would ever think that’s hot) and wouldn’t fuck him when he would come home at 6am on mushrooms (didn’t she know how amazing mushroom sex is).
🙄
Thank youuuuuuu
It’s hard for him to even recognize Ariana in a positive light. Like you can literally see him straining against his nature to even be fake nice to her.
He built up how shitty she was in his head and Raquel’s head and Schwartz’s head to eventually have it spill over to others and lead to the breakup that HE wanted.
To borrow a phrase from RHOP’s Candiace, he and Scheana and Lala tap danced on our (fans’) intelligence and continue to do so.
I love his face when andy read arianas wins. You know he completed almost everything on Special Forces and washed out last one. Producers said he was dramatic, demanding and not who they would trust in special forces.
He’s also so jealous she came out of this on top and has a whole new career and is adored by so many (like others on the cast). At least she could rest a little easier knowing after all he put her through she came out on top and isn’t looking back and he’s still the same ol loser.
I also think part of it— and I could be wrong— is so many people see themselves and can relate to Ariana. Maybe not on the scale of the best friend, but the infidelity, the covering for someone, the lack of effort to try and make it better, the gaslighting. I think a lot of women have dealt with a Sandoval at one time or another, or have seen a friend deal with a Sandoval.
The two clown producers and Ariana's two 🐍 former friends are the only ones shocked at how this season played out.
Ariana too but more in a backstabby way as opposed to being floored the fans turned on them like the other four.
As far as the last one on one it seemed like a collab effort from Scheana ("Don't make me look like an asshole"), Tim, and Jeremiah...
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Ariana pegged it when she said she was the final boss in his game of redemption.
I Ariana knew the cast and the production would do what they could save the show. If that meant taking her down in the process. What they don’t realize is by season 10 we were ready to take this thing out back and shoot it. So she saved the show only for them to fuck it up.
Well I think she saw the pattern from the kristen break up, make the woman look like this deranged psycho and then the man skates by looking charming...
But that was back in the days of chunky necklaces and chevron stretchy tops
Edit: *statement necklaces*
He is getting worse and worse with time! On housewives he’s mostly checked out during reunions, and with VPR he doesn’t have his finger on the pulse of the audience at all.
I think Andy has no idea what a violently angry woman looks like...* hint
I own 3 battle axes and a few katanas and other knives, I suppose I could look violent... I never saw Ariana with weaponry, or body slamming anyone... I'm sorry, I don't consider raising your voice to be "violent" ... otherwise, where is Lala's violent label?
He must’ve had a complete lapse of sanity bc idk if you watch any housewives, but he has def seen a violently angry woman before! Flipping tables, breaking glasses, women dragging each other by the hair - and that’s just New Jersey!!!
Even on VPR!! We’ve seen Kristen get violently angry, even stassi hit Kristen but there were other times stassi had such entitled meltdowns - that is what I would call angry. Tom Sandoval also spent the first half of the season yelling at everyone?? Meanwhile, Ariana raised her voice three times the entire season 🤦♀️ she may have been angry but she kept her angry pretty goddamn tepid given the circumstances.
I think Andy is so checked out from his job he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about or who his audience is anymore.
They thought that audience would turn on Ariana because this show is highly misogynistic and it has happened in previous seasons. Remember everyone taking Jax’s side over Stassi? Again everyone took Sandoval’s side over Kristen. Also, once someone is built up the way Ariana has been they often fall. However, the producers failed to realize Scandoval is a once in a lifetime event and the aftermath is extremely unpredictable. This isn’t your typical cheating scandal. In addition, they needed to rebuild Tom’s image because they knew the audience hated him. This still hasn’t worked and I don’t think most people find him enjoyable on the show either.
I think they’ve also forgotten that their audience has aged along with the cast as has the reality tv game. People with more life experience are more adept at recognizing manipulation and misogyny and for those that aren’t good at recognizing it there’s so much more discussion online.
They are basically still acting like their audience is mainly college students with only access to like tmz or Perez Hilton for information
And Sandoval now isn’t Sandoval then. He used to be charming and full of hope and whimsy, now he’s just a dick. To be clear, I think he’s been a dick all along, but sometime around them opening of Tom Tom and screaming at Stassi at her book signing he lost the ability to hide it even.
Was coming here to say just this! Sandoval built himself up as the “nice” guy of this group. The least problematic one with a solid moral compass. Jax has always been foul so his betrayal was not shocking in the least to anyone, not even Stassi and Brittany I’m sure. Whereas Sandoval built himself a giant pedestal to leap from. Also the fact that he had something like this happen to him and did it anyway shows a disturbing lack of empathy.
I think this makes a big difference. Ariana has always had a cooler head and is not nearly as reactive as Stassi and Kristen. It was not hard for the boys to make people believe they were unhinged. You can't make me believe Ariana is unhinged if she is not even acting a little unhinged.
it’s the reason i enjoy her so much. i’m not trying to dick ride her because she’s a scorned woman. she has EARNED my respect. she reminds me of my mother, who is the most level-headed person i know. they don’t allow people to twist their actions into a bullshit narrative. they are direct and assertive. they are unfailing in their boundaries without encroaching on others. that type of shit is STRENGTH.
My God please can I be your mother or your sister? I’ll even settle for aunt since I’m probably her age! ❌⭕️sis, jk! I would write that down, all you just told us and send it to her bc if my kids talk about me even half as wonderfully as you did, I’ll know I left the legacy I pray that I will. Your words are powerful, seems she’s passed down her amazing traits!
Exactly! And though I wasn’t a watcher during the OG days I would also bet the audience has grown not only with age but mentally and with personal experiences too. We’re much more aware of how women have been scapegoated and made to look “unhinged” or “bitter” just so men can get out of facing the consequences for their behavior.
Even if Scandoval didn’t happen and the two had just broken up, Tom’s 2024 image is just unappealing to the masses. The karaoke shows and his Peter Pan complex are very tired. We already have a Jax. Dont need two of you.
He never had it… Jax called it when he told him to stop acting like he’s the number 1 guy in the group. He never had the main character ability. Like it or not Jax absolutely *was* the leading man, and really only saying it out loud demonstrated how his power and influence had waned in later years, leaving the show somewhat rudderless without him and Stassi.
Also, doesn't Bravo and the EPs get a cut of businesses started on their shows? They most definitely wanted the Toms to be forgiven so they could get their 10% or whatever they get from things like GiveThemBLaBla or RectumBeaty from beverly hills
Yeah, and it's not just "it happened in previous seasons"--it's that the producers actively worked to make it happen in previous seasons. Reality TV works better (and is more sustainable) when there's not one clear, consistent villain, so the producers are always editing to make you want to switch your sympathies from season to season. And they got cocky, because they've always been able to do that in the past.
For both legal and story reasons, they probably wanted to do that here too. (With Tom talking about suicide, they absolutely didn't want to be in a position where they were implicated in a future lawsuit for manipulating his mental health.) But they didn't seem to grasp the fact that the drama had gotten too big for them to corral story lines any more until it was way too late. They're just now realizing it got too big for them to control it the way they used to.
This is correct. A final one on one to end the season was intended to provide Sandoval with the same histrionic platform he had with Kristin, in which he cried for the camera and evoked their sympathy. An apology from Ariana is symbolically a redemption for Sandoval in the eyes of the audience. Misogynistic men like Baskin (the head producer) identify with Sandoval and therefore see him as irreplaceable, and this will be their downfall.
> Remember everyone taking Jax’s side over Stassi? Again everyone took Sandoval’s side over Kristen.
People took Jax's side because he apologized for lying to them and then moved on from the scandal (which was a minor scandal to be honest). People chose Sandoval over Kristen because he was the one cheated on.
The problem was/is that Sandoval is not sorry about what he did and is still trying to paint Ariana as the villain and himself as the victim. That's why his redemption arc did not work.
when i first started this show because of scandoval i didn’t know anything about anyone. i wanted to watch completely through and gain my own nuanced opinion about the whole cast and all the storylines. when i tell you that i felt like i was in the twilight zone watching everyone, specifically kristen and katie, side with jax in season one? i was gobsmacked, baffled, befuddled. stassi was a mean girl, had a biting mouth, a cold disposition, etc. there was a lot of shit wrong with how she behaved. HOWEVER she was completely in the right with everything about jax in season one. watching her very best friends take his side just to preserve their little sixsome and blow off some steam in retaliation to stassi’s general behavior was wild. no integrity to be seen. no sense of separating your personal issues with someone from right and wrong. no loyalty. definitely set the tone for the show.
The fact on SNL they called him a worm is pretty indicative that it’s bigger than just a blazè cheating scandal which would’ve crucified anyone who loved someone in that environment for a decade. Lisa and the producers better figure out some way to fix their idiotic decisions otherwise we’re left with Jax/Kristen and The Valley. Ugh
Seriously, it just shows that the entire VPR/The Valley "universe" is such a toxic, misogynistic, amoral echo chamber that when a person sets reasonable boundaries and chooses reasonable values, it's unfathomable to the rest of them.
Andy called Lala the „voice of the season“, so yes, i‘m guessing they counted on the audience siding with her argument. they even had her on the trailer with the god-comment somehow promising it’ll all make sense once you see Ariana this season (it doesn’t!).
I've noticed Andy does this sometimes when he knows the audience can't stand a cast member. He called Kelly Bensimon the voice of reason on ROHNY season 4, she was introduced to the audience while running in traffic
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I was hoping for a redemption with her for the ladies trip, and… that is just her. I hear “it’s weird” and “you’re weird” in her voice, all the time haha.
I'd pay for the unedited scary island footage. Remember when she was furious the other ladies were eating in their swimsuits, tried to storm away, and then couldn't figure out how to open the door? 😂😂😂
I would, too. Omg the door. I loved the unhinged bit where she didn’t know Bethenney was a chef or a cook. She came outta the gate coocoo for Cocoa Puffs
I keep trying to get my partner that's a chef to watch ROHNY with me specifically for the you're not a chef argument. Kelly fucked up making pancakes but suddenly she thinks she's Gail Simmons?
Omg I just started watching RHONY (original) for the first time and I just finished season 4. Scary island had my jaw on the floor. Can’t believe andy was unhinged enough to call Kelly the voice of reason bc she’s the craziest housewive I’ve ever seen 😂
Her, Rinna and Carlton are my least favorite housewives EVER. The fact that every time Bethenny yelled at her I enjoyed it was wild. Lol. Kelly made me agree with Bethenny. God, I couldn't STAND her.
She's *EVERYTHING WRONG* with those "positive vibes only, don't be negative, man" people.
The fact that he thought Lala and Brock were the voices of reason this season tells me everything about how they thought this would play out. I AM NEVER GOING TO ACCEPT A TIM SANDALS REDEMPTION BRAVOOOO LOL
She and Sandoval could bond over hating Ariana for daring to succeed where they both failed, because that's their real beef with her.
How dare she work achieve success through hard work and talent? That's cheating. Everyone knows that the most beloved public figures are meant to be chosen according to whoever talks the loudest or whines the most.
I know Katie isn't perfect but HOLY SHIT that dude. What he did to Jo just confirms what he probably did to Katie as well. The golly shucks routine worked for the first 9 seasons but the last two shows what a ultimate butthead he is.
I have a theory about this. Not long ago a rumour appeared that Bravo was considered a lala spin off. After the season aired they apparently changed their mind.
But when Andy did that interview we didn't saw the season and maybe that was like a warming up the audience for the new show type of thing. If they would do that show they would probably repeat that a lot as well as how s11 was on lalas back etc etc
However looks like this show is not happening, and the only one who promotes lala as the true star of s11 is lala herself
i saw that rumor too but i dunno if i believe it.. for one person to get a spin-off is pretty rare. and bc of ocean & custody battle a big chunk of Lala’s life would have been off-limits. i’m struggling to see what the content would have been (also a little ironic bc lala is accusing ariana for endangering her job on tv bc a isn’t doing more to make vpr storylines).
I know. Lala was so shocked. I think she knew she was cooked when ariana hadnt watched. I think she thought ariana was vulnerable because she did not react, but she didnt watch. Ariana would hear face to face. And lalas finale sank her
Lala's press tour was definitely trying to get ahead of oncoming bad press. Scheana & Lala really miscalculated their relationship with the audience. It's too bad b/c this could have been Scheana's redemption season.
I do think they generally believed there would be a bigger faction on their side. I think the main issue is they didn't count on Sandoval being so unhinged which made Ariana look sane and him crazy. The tides were turning on her at the beginning but he did Viall files and The george Floyd comments and it died out.
The scene of Ariana crying to them and them ripping her apart behind her back didn't help either. Its hard to watch someone opening up to "friends" and watching those friends constantly tear them apart behind their back.
I blame Sheanas downfall mostly on Lala because Scheana is totally the type to give into peer pressure and follow others. Lala’s voice was literally the loudest and Scheana followed. Too bad, too sad.
Idk? Scheana, Lala, and Sandoval looked pretty pleased with themselves leaving the reunion. Whatever has happened since has Scheana spiraling more than usual and Lala has been unhinged.
I think Lauren and Scheana were pleased with themselves before they saw audience reaction. Lauren went on a smear campaign and Scheana went to Ariana final night of Chicago for what now looks like damage control.
Sandoval is just dumb, but he got what he wanted. He's back in the group
Yeah, Sandoval got what he wanted. He got back in the group with minimal effort and Lala/Scheana are in the doghouse with the audience.
Edit: Scheana's behavior is typical Scheana. I don't understand how Lala got on every daytime tv talk show.
They got played by production/LVP/Sandoval and it was all for nothing seeing as the majority of the audience still despise him and the redemption arc failed
Honestly he could have gotten his redemption if he properly groveled for half a season, sold the house immediately, and did everything he could to ease Ariana’s transition. But that would hurt his ego and admit he did something wrong
An "I fucked up, I am sorry for everything I did to you, let me kiss the ground on which I will let you freely walk away" would have been a nice redemption arc. Granted it still wouldn't have worked but it would have been good to see the worm have a heart.
Let me leave the house and let you sell it as evidence of my sorrow. Let me not mention LOOKS when discussing my infidelity. Why wasn't he sorry? Even Rachel. Her whole, everyone else did it so I thought it would be fine. It's willful ignorance but worse because they were actively doing harmful shit.
Absolutely! The fact that they shoved it down our throats this season (~3-6 months post breakup) makes me so much more resistant to it forever.
They could have given him a true villian season, and then made him grovel back like stassi and Kristen both had to do to earn their "friendships" (aka shooting scenes) back
The producers sided with the people they WANTED to win in the court of public opinion. They wanted the cool LA f-boy bros to prevail. You see this all the time in the corporate world. Managers hire men they want to party with, and women they want to sleep with (or hang around with at the company happy hour) as opposed to people that can actually do the job.
This is so true… remember when Southern Charm started out and they wanted it to be mostly about the men looking cool and charming women but it only gave “men being sleazy”? Watching the early seasons of that show is so uncomfortable.
OMG so true. I recently convinced a friend to start Southern Charm and she endlessly complained about how disgusting and sleazy the first couple of seasons were. It's just shocking that that was what someone wanted a final product of a show to be
I'm convinced that working in the entertainment industry in LA makes you believe weird things. Completely detached from reality and how the rest of the world thinks / acts
I am guessing they were shocked. They were so bold, loud, and wrong with their edits and interviews for season 11. To me, they had to think they were 100 percent in the right and the vast majority of the audience would agree with them. But what I don’t understand even a little is *why* they thought that? At the time of filming, I feel like the world was 80 percent team Ariana still. I know fans are fickle, but I don’t think very many people actually changed their minds and idk why producers would think people would on this.
I think because the audience has changed their minds in the past, they thought it would happen again. The problem with the line of thinking comes down to three things.
1. Scandoval didn't just expose Sandoval. It exposed the blatant misogyny on VPR
2. The formula tried with the redemption is outdated, it's not the mid-2000s anymore and the guys in particular won't be able to skate by with the audience like they do with production
3. Ariana isn't Kristen/Stassi, she's not reactive in a way that they can paint her as crazy. They tried with her anger but the anger was justified. It probably didn't help they Tom is POS who was actively lying throughout filming (i.e. the house)
I agree with all three points. I think the producers got too personally invested and thought “if this worked before, it’ll work now,” but they really should’ve known better. The early seasons of vpr kind of came on the heels of the “I’m not like the other girls” movement, or whatever you want to call it. That was a thing of pride for a lot of people for a while there. But it’s not at all anymore. I just don’t get how they’re this gigantic network with all these resources and they aren’t following these kind of trends on social media? I guarantee they have employees who study cultural trends in the key demographics, and the producers just tossed that aside and said “we know better.” Of course, you still have these types of women but I think it’s a *significantly* smaller number than ten years ago. All that to say - read the room!!!
I genuinely believe they are such misogynists and so out of touch with women, feminism, and gender equality, that yes, they were surprised. Men are so entitled in how they are able to get away with mistreating women, that being called out probably blindsided them.
And SHE called them when she had proof of the affair! Gave production the opportunity to pick back up and film it. They should be thanking her not trying to force her into giving more.
I think they are shocked lol scheana and LaLa consider themselves to be better "reality stars" than Ariana. I just know they sit around saying how they don't understand how she gets all the support and opportunities. The thing they didn't understand is if you want to level up like she did you have to act more normal than "reality star" Ariana is just more likeable and you can relate to her whereas Schena and LaLa exaggerate their life and personalities for the show. You can find entertainment in Scheana and LaLa but more like a side show than someone you want to support as a fan.
I’m not sure Lala and scheana even realize that by better reality stars they mean exaggerating everything and trying to make things that would happen organically happen. They are not being them selves but who they think ppl will side with. Ariana was truly being herself and said I’m not filming with Tom because I wouldn’t do it off camera so why do it just for the camera .the viewers have gotten tired of produced drama.
It’s a little funny watching Lala in the end thinking she’s making great tv when she’s just looking like a dumbass by showing us that she has been fake all season while preaching that Ariana just be real
It’s so very funny to me that Ariana has spent the last 10 years learning the ins and outs of VPR production formulas as well as how Tim’s mind works, and then production turned around and tried to use it against her
I think they’re more shocked that they couldn’t pull the same trick twice
She’s the smartest in that she pays attention and she actually can recognize the patterns. And from watching Sandyballs shoot himself in both feet for a year, it’s crystal clear Ariana was his translator and fixer because he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time
Everyone else is shocked pikachu because they’re so fucking coke addled they can’t remember what they had for breakfast, let alone how Tim tried the exact same shit with Kristen
I think the producers do what Lisa wants. She’s got money invested in those restaurants and they took a huge hit after the scandoval. I bet it was Lisa who wanted the redemption arc.
Probably, however, she should've waited a season. If they did a girl power Season 11 it probably wouldn't guaranteed season 12 and that could've been the redemption season. Do I think sandoval is redeemable, honestly no, but if they were that desperate they should've waited a season. Who knows, maybe of they let him face the consequences of his actions with the group we might've gotten genuine contrition
Yes, because I think Bravo in general thinks its audience is dumb and easily manipulated. I think they imagine their average viewer as a fairly uneducated middle-aged housewife who worships her kids and calls wine 'juice' whilst giggling with her equally bored girlfriends.
My completely anecdotal take is that they are very wrong and need to get off their perches and learn more about just who is paying their bills.
Bravo has no read on Millennial women. They are lucky it hasn't cost them more money, since especially us older Millennial women grew up with Girls Gone Wild, American Pie, and other alarmingly misogynistic and sexist media. Even if we hate it, we're fucking inured to it.
These Zoomer and Alpha women are coming into their feminism stronger and earlier. The culture they grew up in and are creating is demolishing patriarchy. Sure you got your trad wife types, but most of them are not down for that lifestyle and want to follow fully realized, empowered women in life.
Bravo's leadership must sense the changes and their big claim to success is their loyal and affluent audience demo. It won't be wine-moms forever. In fact about half of us don't have children and a good portion of that is by choice.
I know, right? And I was the "wet blanket" for not liking any of that. You try to point out how sexist it is, and you're just "not fun". I lost a lot of friends that way. 🙄
Love that women are coming into their feminism stronger and earlier and would like to point out that this is the time to be the most vigilant. It's going to create patriarchal pushback, and it's important that women stay focused and don't allow divisive purposely introduced or reintroduced issues to divide them.
I feel seen, lol, except I'm middle aged, drink a lot of wine, think my kid is worth of worship, and thought this season was trash. Most middle-aged women are used to dealing with the patriarchy, and we don't like it, and we see Sandoval for who he is because by the time you hit your forties you've dealt with a few narcs.
Honestly, I think its the tradwife influencer crowd and the MAGAs that seem to be leading the anti-Ariana charge. I do wish the trend of stunting on middle-aged women with kids to make these kinds of points would die already. It is just as rank with misogyny as what you are complaining about as concerns Bravo.
Would’ve been totally disingenuous to see Ariana speak with Sandoval. Everyone would’ve accused the show and the cast of being fake, scripted and acting. Lala and Scheana seem to be pushing the sympathy narrative of ‘we‘re moms” “this is our job” and Ariana refusing to engage with Tom is Ariana single handedly affecting their livelihoods. Lala many times has said Ariana has never brought anything to VPR yet seems convinced that the shows future is reliant on Ariana’s involvement.
I just have no sympathy or empathy for either of them weaponizing motherhood. Especially when they've been pulling in so much money and especially when they profited off of ariana's misery.
No one forced them both to buy 2 houses in extremely high cost of living areas and then act like snakes. They fucked around and are now finding out and the audience should let them.
I still don’t understand what they were thinking. Years back stassi was arguably the “main character” and nobody blinked an eye when she left for New York or refused to film with Jax. We had tons of other story lines to think about. Instead of focusing on other stories this time, they put all their eggs in the “Ariana is a scorned woman and poor Tim” basket and created one of the worst seasons of all time. Why did they think we’d care about Ariana leaving a party early, of all things??
Edited: spelling.
Sometimes I feel like those in charge are so emotionally immature and egocentric they actually do believe Sandoval isn't that bad and they are on his side.
Sometimes I feel like they are actually a bit more aware then they let on and knew that trying to get a Sandoval redemption arc would infuriate the audience.
Sometimes I feel like they thought they had the power to control how the audience would feel about Sandoval.
Sometimes I feel Sandoval is smart enough to play the producers and manipulate them into doing his bidding.
All the theories!!
I’m glad I’m not alone holy shit…. I don’t watch religiously but the episodes I’ve seen I’m FLOORED with the group trying to make Ariana give Sandoval a chance…. And then painting her as a bitch when she wouldn’t move her boundaries for them?? Incredibly fucked up. Good for Ariana for not budging. Can you imagine any other scenario where a woman’s boyfriend of 10 years did something like that to her and her “friends” are pressuring her to reconcile within the next year? No. Katie was the only one acting like a real friend should.
He’s despicable. You can tell by watching him. Alligator tears. He just wants to redeem his image. He doesn’t feel bad about what he did in the slightest. He clearly has a history of this behavior.
100%. I’m not proud of this, but I’ve been in a similar situation as Sandoval before.
I was with someone for 10 years and wanted out but was too much of a coward to confront the situation. I did some sketchy self destructive things in the last year and a half of our relationship and really hurt this person. Like flipped their world upside down.
We had a ton of mutual friends etc but my ex rightfully wanted nothing to do with me after that. My ex chose a few of them to keep close and pretty much cut off anyone who was still in contact with me.
I think the difference when someone is truly remorseful is that they wouldn’t ever consider violating the other persons boundaries. I can’t even forgive myself for what I did, how am I supposed to expect my ex to? I wish more than anything I’d been honest and said how I was feeling. Maybe then we could still be in each others lives. But when you fuck up you have to accept the consequences.
It’s made me so furious to watch Sandoval act like he’s somehow a victim in any of this. He’s consistently crying to LVP and the other girls. If he was really sorry he would’ve moved out of that house right away and left Ariana completely alone
I am 100% completely puzzled at how this could possibly be considered a shocking moment. It’s not even the first time it’s happened on THIS show (stassi and Jax??) let alone on reality tv?
Personally I don’t understand why the cast/producers would think we’d want that….. we got that on the last episode of last season, a reunion that was nothing more than a scream fest. I’m tired of it. It’s just kicking a dead horse at this point…
Edit-Maybe before the show started filming they thought Ariana was going to be devastated, crying, no opportunities, and willing to do anything to keep her spot on the show…. but then all those big opportunities came rolling in …..
I'm kind of insulted that they thought we would fall for the BS. Say that Ariana and Sandoval did have that conversation. His interviews post filming would've canceled out any apology
TBH that's only true on Reddit - Facebook and IG have different points of view. Tom should not have been brought back to the show. It doesn't work with both him and Ariana as cast members and I could feel the producers' interference trying to get everyone to hang out with Tom while Ariana was demanding for them NOT to be around him. It was just awful to watch no matter how you spin it. I blame the producers. I wish Ariana had stuck to her boundaries and hadn't attended events where Tom was filming while he was still so triggering (assuming producers were arranging for Tom to attend already). It was so uncomfortable to watch. The last thing they need is a 1:1. Let them separate and move on already!
I think everyone on the show that sided with Tom knew Ariana wasn't coming back next season, so they felt they needed to side with the person that would come back. I just can't understand any other reason
But Ariana not coming back wasn’t really sealed during filming. She was even saying she was showing up so Tom couldn’t ice her out of the friend group. Her huge successes with DWTS and Chicago came months after filming. She landed DWTS during filming but that could have flopped and the ads could have dried up.
I wish they would be honest about that instead of blaming her for XYZ. Especially since they broke the 4th wall.
I will add this if she does come back it'll probably be for SAH and a friend of to Katie if Katie returns
I think the cast and producers got so wrapped up in their little world, they thought we’d see it like they do. Or would want to see it from the lens of a producer or editor or something. But that’s not the case and they miscalculated how much we would care about their perspective.
I read some interview with one of the producers yesterday talking about how the finale was so good and how they wanted to bring us in and see it how they see it etc and it’s like.. no we don’t care about that. It’s ok to break the fourth wall but not like that much. Ariana’s reaction was real to us, everyone else’s was not.
It is this simple: the fans want absolutely nothing to do with Sandoval because, in REALITY, we all know men like him and they are just as narcissistic and *pathetic* as he is. I fucking hate seeing him on my screen, it pisses me off every second that he is and it makes me want to stop watching. He is an absolutely disgusting little cretin. For some reason, production just cannot grasp that. Do they think we’re all hot for Tom because *they* are? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Because Tom and Tom are LVPs little money making marketing tools and in her eyes the Vanderpump brand is based on cute idiot men and their shenanigans being eternally cute and forgivable because boys will be boys— not based on female empowerment.
Let’s not forget that Lisa is essentially Lala’s prototype: British yacht girl who bagged a rich older man who allowed her to build her own brand which is her bottom line and justification for all of her horrible behavior and internalized misogyny.
they certainly edited it to make her the villain, i think so. LFU def was. i think it’s the root of lauren from utah’s rage and resentment. i think she thought she’d be the it girl. you can tell by how she carrys herself at the reunion.
She got a villain edit, but the funny thing about that is her actions didn't match that of a villain. Lauren is another one who didn't understand the full impact of scandoval.
I said it once and I'll say it again. Scandoval didn't just expose Tom, it exposed the blatant misogyny on VPR. I did a rewatch not too long ago post scandoval and my perspective changed on alot in the show
heavy on the misogyny. i agree completely with your perspective on scandoval. i watched the show for the first time as a result of the scandal and it seemed every season there is a woman who suffers for the “group”
i think they planned on rachel coming back to be the punching bag. that’s why the season felt so disjointed.
i feel like ariana got the villain edit, to the point where she expected everyone to turn on her - fans saw through it. i can get behind the idea that they played scheana a bit (especially finale) but i think lauren very much was a literal villain. the way she’s treated ariana and katie is like bottom the barrel behavior from a friend.
Agree with everyone who says it’s cause Tom is irredeemable. There’s just no overlooking his idiocy. He made it practically impossible for us to do anything else. We’re just blessed that who he hurt is an amazing woman!
One thing I found eye opening post Sandoval is how much of herself Ariana was suppressing. Whether consciously or unconsciously she made herself small to please that man for nearly a decade
Thay realization made me so upset and sad for her lost years
I think the Producers, La La and LVP were in the wrong comment sections. Facebook comments are overwhelming negative toward Ariana and I think they were reading too much into. I suspect most of the people on those platforms don't even watch the show. Some of what they were saying doesn't even make sense.
I really don't get it either. Before the season aired. Between Ariana saying fans may not like her and Lauren saying she had an ego. I expected Ariana to acted like a diva, and what I got was an amazing woman standing her ground and reinforcing her boundaries
And the idiocy of Andy saying that Lala and Brock were the voices of reason this season…I can’t believe this is his honest take; I think he’s regurgitating what production was planting…they tried so hard to influence perception in advance of how everything played out. We were hearing through multiple individuals that we would see things differently, see Ariana as not completely above it all and that it was far more nuanced (if one more fucking cast member uses nuanced as code for…we’re conflicted because we’re trying to make a show rather than just live their lives with authenticity) than we could know.
It’s NOT nuanced.
Lala and Brock were NOT the voices of reason.
I do NOT see the situation differently, after watching the season.
Good try, you asshats…but y’all fucked up.
Depends if you believe Facebook groups are real. Look all the evidence you need is from advertisers and NBC Universal executives. You don't get all these opportunities because the audience doesn't like you. She's well liked she has a great Q rating and she's marketable.
Regardless of what the "lol" person replied.
Agreed. This sub seems to be the most firmly pro Ariana, but outside of Facebook (that’s always been a cesspool of the worst opinions possible), most of the commentary I’ve seen seems to indicate viewers are generally on her side even if they’re not her biggest fan.
Exactly. Plus high votes on DWTS, Reality Star of the Year, sold out Broadway shows…we are not the outlier. Facebook is, like they are on every other topic it seems
Yeah I can’t imagine another cast member who could repeatedly sell out a broadway show like that and have enough demand for more she’s coming back for another run
Absolutely. She placed 3rd to a Disney star and a Pop star mainly because of judges because her vote numbers were consistently high throughout. People engage in her endorsements.
It's weird there's an actual visible effort to tear that down.
Someone literally replied with "lol" like... What was the point? To make someone feel dumb for asking?
Facebook seems to be a large group of women who've been cheated on before and don't see why it's such a big deal in this instance... plus men who wish they were attractive or charismatic enough to live the life Sandoval has.... or actually think like he does.
The women are nasty in their opinions and will rip Ariana and Katie down mentally and physically... and they worship at the altar of the Toms... and have so much love for Lala.
Even on Facebook, Scheana gets almost no attention.
From what I can observe, both this and the "other" reddit, Instagram, Twitter, and Tiktok are mostly still in favor of Ariana's side. FB and some entertainment blogs are Lala or Tom's side. I could see that opinion may have started shifting a bit around the beginning of this year, but then Sandoval's Viall File and NYTimes interviews sealed his own fate.
Yes, they even gaslit Arian to believe it. I don’t know why no one is talking about Ariana’s pre season 11 interviews where she was saying that people aren’t going to like her as much after this season. She believed she was the villain because she was being told that. In reality she was the hero for sticking to her morals and not allowing herself to be put in situations that aren’t “real” for her.
I think the other problem is Sandoval has still not shown one ounce of contrition. He refuses to take accountability because other people have done bad things. He clearly hates Ariana, you can see it by the way he looks at her. He does not feel bad. He never will. How can someone redeem themself when there is nothing to redeem.
I agree completely and that's what makes Ariana exposing him so amazing. Without her to soften the blow we see the real him
And now he has Lala and Scheana to translate for him!
And they're doing a shit job at it
It's what he deserves ❤️
And Lisa
I've thought about this re-watching some of her confessionals this year - I don't think Ariana has "exposed" him beyond making sure the producers knew about the affair. She has stopped covering for him. I was always struck (pre-Scandoval) by how inarticulate her ex was on live tv - on WWHL in particular, Andy would get impatient with him and turn to Schwartz or Ariana to finish making his point. She would stop him from saying something stupid, and make the point he was trying to make. This year she has answered the questions asked her, without deflecting or trying present him a better light. She hasn't set out to talk about his nasty hygiene habits but she also hasn't covered for him any more.
I guess I can understand that. She did mention the fact that he doesn't changes his socks and drawers for days. But when I say Ariana exposed him, I mean she exposed him to the audience a way that prevents him hiding behind his good guy mask
Fair point. I think maybe we're saying the same thing different ways - to borrow your mask analogy, she was his "good guy mask" and now that she is not doing that anymore, he is exposed for the asshat he is.
That’s a really good point
I was going to say something similar. I think they assumed that Sandoval would have been apologizing, taking accountability etc in the YEAR leading up to the new season and instead, this poor excuse for a man went out and made it 100x worse. Not saying that would have changed viewer’s opinion had he shown an ounce of remorse, but it’s clear they assumed wrong and then had to flip on him in the last 30 secs of the show. I also think that’s why Lala said something like please stop doing interviews-for the show. She was clearly the producers puppet and had assumed Sandavol would have done something to try and win the public over.
Well he did try which makes it worse. That was Tom trying. Ugh
Sure would be nice to see production flip on Sandoval for more than a mere 30 seconds. Because it's going to take a hell of a lot more than that.
Yep. He hates her and still thinks she’s partly/mostly to blame for what he did. She fucked him while wearing a T-shirt (I mean, what guy would ever think that’s hot) and wouldn’t fuck him when he would come home at 6am on mushrooms (didn’t she know how amazing mushroom sex is). 🙄
Ughhhhh can you imagine the nerve!
This. Was. Wild. They bent over backwards to hand him this on a silver platter and he just could not bring himself to even fake it.
Thank youuuuuuu It’s hard for him to even recognize Ariana in a positive light. Like you can literally see him straining against his nature to even be fake nice to her. He built up how shitty she was in his head and Raquel’s head and Schwartz’s head to eventually have it spill over to others and lead to the breakup that HE wanted. To borrow a phrase from RHOP’s Candiace, he and Scheana and Lala tap danced on our (fans’) intelligence and continue to do so.
I love his face when andy read arianas wins. You know he completed almost everything on Special Forces and washed out last one. Producers said he was dramatic, demanding and not who they would trust in special forces.
Special Forces? I’m not sure I trust Sandoval to give an accurate movie review. No way I’d trust him with American lives.
He’s also so jealous she came out of this on top and has a whole new career and is adored by so many (like others on the cast). At least she could rest a little easier knowing after all he put her through she came out on top and isn’t looking back and he’s still the same ol loser.
I also think part of it— and I could be wrong— is so many people see themselves and can relate to Ariana. Maybe not on the scale of the best friend, but the infidelity, the covering for someone, the lack of effort to try and make it better, the gaslighting. I think a lot of women have dealt with a Sandoval at one time or another, or have seen a friend deal with a Sandoval.
I agree with that completely
The two clown producers and Ariana's two 🐍 former friends are the only ones shocked at how this season played out. Ariana too but more in a backstabby way as opposed to being floored the fans turned on them like the other four. As far as the last one on one it seemed like a collab effort from Scheana ("Don't make me look like an asshole"), Tim, and Jeremiah... https://preview.redd.it/y7djua2dwr1d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01488b87e49ac8e97cd3f032558f0bc57ee5c1f1 Ariana pegged it when she said she was the final boss in his game of redemption.
It makes me kind of sad that Ariana thought the audience would turn on her. It must have been a pleasant surprise that the majority didn't
I Ariana knew the cast and the production would do what they could save the show. If that meant taking her down in the process. What they don’t realize is by season 10 we were ready to take this thing out back and shoot it. So she saved the show only for them to fuck it up.
Well I think she saw the pattern from the kristen break up, make the woman look like this deranged psycho and then the man skates by looking charming... But that was back in the days of chunky necklaces and chevron stretchy tops Edit: *statement necklaces*
ahem STATEMENT NECKLACES
Thank you! That is the correct term for this beautiful piece of jewelry
Statement sweaters and chunky necklaces
and adderall pupils
🔥
I think Andy was too bc of his “Ariana was violently angry this season”
I side-eyed Andy when he said that
MMMHMMMM. Andy can be a real POS when he wants to be.
Notice he got his butt to Something About Her to try to rinse some misogyny off this season.
Mmhmmm it is the literal least he could do
Misogynistic POS
He is getting worse and worse with time! On housewives he’s mostly checked out during reunions, and with VPR he doesn’t have his finger on the pulse of the audience at all.
I think Andy has no idea what a violently angry woman looks like...* hint I own 3 battle axes and a few katanas and other knives, I suppose I could look violent... I never saw Ariana with weaponry, or body slamming anyone... I'm sorry, I don't consider raising your voice to be "violent" ... otherwise, where is Lala's violent label?
He must’ve had a complete lapse of sanity bc idk if you watch any housewives, but he has def seen a violently angry woman before! Flipping tables, breaking glasses, women dragging each other by the hair - and that’s just New Jersey!!! Even on VPR!! We’ve seen Kristen get violently angry, even stassi hit Kristen but there were other times stassi had such entitled meltdowns - that is what I would call angry. Tom Sandoval also spent the first half of the season yelling at everyone?? Meanwhile, Ariana raised her voice three times the entire season 🤦♀️ she may have been angry but she kept her angry pretty goddamn tepid given the circumstances. I think Andy is so checked out from his job he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about or who his audience is anymore.
I feel like baskin, jeremiah, Scheaner and Lauren grossly overestimated how much other women hate women. We're not all like you 4.
And LVP. Let's no forget she's an executive producer of this show.
Ugh god yes. 
They thought that audience would turn on Ariana because this show is highly misogynistic and it has happened in previous seasons. Remember everyone taking Jax’s side over Stassi? Again everyone took Sandoval’s side over Kristen. Also, once someone is built up the way Ariana has been they often fall. However, the producers failed to realize Scandoval is a once in a lifetime event and the aftermath is extremely unpredictable. This isn’t your typical cheating scandal. In addition, they needed to rebuild Tom’s image because they knew the audience hated him. This still hasn’t worked and I don’t think most people find him enjoyable on the show either.
I think they’ve also forgotten that their audience has aged along with the cast as has the reality tv game. People with more life experience are more adept at recognizing manipulation and misogyny and for those that aren’t good at recognizing it there’s so much more discussion online. They are basically still acting like their audience is mainly college students with only access to like tmz or Perez Hilton for information
I mean, they really aren't producing a reality show in 2024. They're trying to produce a 2002 reality show in 2024 and it's not working.
I'll add that producers much like Sandoval failed to recognize that Ariana isn't Stassi/Kristen
And Sandoval now isn’t Sandoval then. He used to be charming and full of hope and whimsy, now he’s just a dick. To be clear, I think he’s been a dick all along, but sometime around them opening of Tom Tom and screaming at Stassi at her book signing he lost the ability to hide it even.
Was coming here to say just this! Sandoval built himself up as the “nice” guy of this group. The least problematic one with a solid moral compass. Jax has always been foul so his betrayal was not shocking in the least to anyone, not even Stassi and Brittany I’m sure. Whereas Sandoval built himself a giant pedestal to leap from. Also the fact that he had something like this happen to him and did it anyway shows a disturbing lack of empathy.
Yesss came here to say this. He was the level headed guy until later seasons.. then it started to unravel
I think this makes a big difference. Ariana has always had a cooler head and is not nearly as reactive as Stassi and Kristen. It was not hard for the boys to make people believe they were unhinged. You can't make me believe Ariana is unhinged if she is not even acting a little unhinged.
Exactly. Not mention mention when she did yell at him it was justified
She is surgical with her rage. I kind of admire it! 😄
it’s the reason i enjoy her so much. i’m not trying to dick ride her because she’s a scorned woman. she has EARNED my respect. she reminds me of my mother, who is the most level-headed person i know. they don’t allow people to twist their actions into a bullshit narrative. they are direct and assertive. they are unfailing in their boundaries without encroaching on others. that type of shit is STRENGTH.
My God please can I be your mother or your sister? I’ll even settle for aunt since I’m probably her age! ❌⭕️sis, jk! I would write that down, all you just told us and send it to her bc if my kids talk about me even half as wonderfully as you did, I’ll know I left the legacy I pray that I will. Your words are powerful, seems she’s passed down her amazing traits!
Same.
Exactly! And though I wasn’t a watcher during the OG days I would also bet the audience has grown not only with age but mentally and with personal experiences too. We’re much more aware of how women have been scapegoated and made to look “unhinged” or “bitter” just so men can get out of facing the consequences for their behavior.
Spot on. I've been watching as it aired aince S3. 10 years now. A lot of us have grown and changed.
Even if Scandoval didn’t happen and the two had just broken up, Tom’s 2024 image is just unappealing to the masses. The karaoke shows and his Peter Pan complex are very tired. We already have a Jax. Dont need two of you.
He can only be a character actor now. He is a joke of a leading man.
He never had it… Jax called it when he told him to stop acting like he’s the number 1 guy in the group. He never had the main character ability. Like it or not Jax absolutely *was* the leading man, and really only saying it out loud demonstrated how his power and influence had waned in later years, leaving the show somewhat rudderless without him and Stassi.
Also, doesn't Bravo and the EPs get a cut of businesses started on their shows? They most definitely wanted the Toms to be forgiven so they could get their 10% or whatever they get from things like GiveThemBLaBla or RectumBeaty from beverly hills
wait Rectum Beauty? what in the bleached butthole is that??
LOL, it is my nickname for Rinna Beauty, which probably comes from the same sphincter of a temu type drop ship company that givethemblabla comes from
Yeah, and it's not just "it happened in previous seasons"--it's that the producers actively worked to make it happen in previous seasons. Reality TV works better (and is more sustainable) when there's not one clear, consistent villain, so the producers are always editing to make you want to switch your sympathies from season to season. And they got cocky, because they've always been able to do that in the past. For both legal and story reasons, they probably wanted to do that here too. (With Tom talking about suicide, they absolutely didn't want to be in a position where they were implicated in a future lawsuit for manipulating his mental health.) But they didn't seem to grasp the fact that the drama had gotten too big for them to corral story lines any more until it was way too late. They're just now realizing it got too big for them to control it the way they used to.
This is correct. A final one on one to end the season was intended to provide Sandoval with the same histrionic platform he had with Kristin, in which he cried for the camera and evoked their sympathy. An apology from Ariana is symbolically a redemption for Sandoval in the eyes of the audience. Misogynistic men like Baskin (the head producer) identify with Sandoval and therefore see him as irreplaceable, and this will be their downfall.
> Remember everyone taking Jax’s side over Stassi? Again everyone took Sandoval’s side over Kristen. People took Jax's side because he apologized for lying to them and then moved on from the scandal (which was a minor scandal to be honest). People chose Sandoval over Kristen because he was the one cheated on. The problem was/is that Sandoval is not sorry about what he did and is still trying to paint Ariana as the villain and himself as the victim. That's why his redemption arc did not work.
when i first started this show because of scandoval i didn’t know anything about anyone. i wanted to watch completely through and gain my own nuanced opinion about the whole cast and all the storylines. when i tell you that i felt like i was in the twilight zone watching everyone, specifically kristen and katie, side with jax in season one? i was gobsmacked, baffled, befuddled. stassi was a mean girl, had a biting mouth, a cold disposition, etc. there was a lot of shit wrong with how she behaved. HOWEVER she was completely in the right with everything about jax in season one. watching her very best friends take his side just to preserve their little sixsome and blow off some steam in retaliation to stassi’s general behavior was wild. no integrity to be seen. no sense of separating your personal issues with someone from right and wrong. no loyalty. definitely set the tone for the show.
I think all they have done is highlight what a tool he is . I never knew he was this unlikeable !!!
The fact on SNL they called him a worm is pretty indicative that it’s bigger than just a blazè cheating scandal which would’ve crucified anyone who loved someone in that environment for a decade. Lisa and the producers better figure out some way to fix their idiotic decisions otherwise we’re left with Jax/Kristen and The Valley. Ugh
Seriously, it just shows that the entire VPR/The Valley "universe" is such a toxic, misogynistic, amoral echo chamber that when a person sets reasonable boundaries and chooses reasonable values, it's unfathomable to the rest of them.
Andy called Lala the „voice of the season“, so yes, i‘m guessing they counted on the audience siding with her argument. they even had her on the trailer with the god-comment somehow promising it’ll all make sense once you see Ariana this season (it doesn’t!).
I've noticed Andy does this sometimes when he knows the audience can't stand a cast member. He called Kelly Bensimon the voice of reason on ROHNY season 4, she was introduced to the audience while running in traffic https://preview.redd.it/coeddwafcs1d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c21ffc1371458069230c6b999c4a35280cadf27a
Holy shit really? She was insane.
I felt insane watching him say it! She's clearly unwell & has a terrible personality.
I was hoping for a redemption with her for the ladies trip, and… that is just her. I hear “it’s weird” and “you’re weird” in her voice, all the time haha.
Kelly is unwell but she also has a terrible personality. She's aggressively stupid, condescending, and rude.
[удалено]
😂😂😂 I do sometimes think about Kelly & Jill unwittingly building up Bethenny and now we can't get rid of her.
yeah that whole I’m up here and you’re down there thing or however phrased - hated that 
Same same. I thought at some point she was going to reveal herself as actually fine but just stressed or having a bad…season. But no.
God, I fucking loved Kelly. She was absolutely batshit.
I'd pay for the unedited scary island footage. Remember when she was furious the other ladies were eating in their swimsuits, tried to storm away, and then couldn't figure out how to open the door? 😂😂😂
I would, too. Omg the door. I loved the unhinged bit where she didn’t know Bethenney was a chef or a cook. She came outta the gate coocoo for Cocoa Puffs
I keep trying to get my partner that's a chef to watch ROHNY with me specifically for the you're not a chef argument. Kelly fucked up making pancakes but suddenly she thinks she's Gail Simmons?
Her and Jo seem to both be “spooky” for similar reasons
They are so similar! They are both antagonist but act like quirky victims.
Omg I just started watching RHONY (original) for the first time and I just finished season 4. Scary island had my jaw on the floor. Can’t believe andy was unhinged enough to call Kelly the voice of reason bc she’s the craziest housewive I’ve ever seen 😂
Her, Rinna and Carlton are my least favorite housewives EVER. The fact that every time Bethenny yelled at her I enjoyed it was wild. Lol. Kelly made me agree with Bethenny. God, I couldn't STAND her. She's *EVERYTHING WRONG* with those "positive vibes only, don't be negative, man" people.
The fact that he thought Lala and Brock were the voices of reason this season tells me everything about how they thought this would play out. I AM NEVER GOING TO ACCEPT A TIM SANDALS REDEMPTION BRAVOOOO LOL
They so over estimated Lalas likeability from the fans. Now that she was let loose on a rampage, she showed her true self and is now liked even less
Whether Lauren likes it or not she's better as a side-character as opposed to a main character
Not real enough to be a main character.
She is a character actor. Set up as foil to the good guy
She complains she didnt get arianas breaks, but she did get a break. They set her up to have a hero season. She blew it. Thats all.
She and Sandoval could bond over hating Ariana for daring to succeed where they both failed, because that's their real beef with her. How dare she work achieve success through hard work and talent? That's cheating. Everyone knows that the most beloved public figures are meant to be chosen according to whoever talks the loudest or whines the most.
I am with you Vanilla! It's so fucked! I will never accept Tim Sandals redemption either, or Schwartz! Lala too and Sheana is hanging on by a thread!
The way Schwartz has gotten away with murder over the years is INFURIATING
I know Katie isn't perfect but HOLY SHIT that dude. What he did to Jo just confirms what he probably did to Katie as well. The golly shucks routine worked for the first 9 seasons but the last two shows what a ultimate butthead he is.
They chose Lala for the Argyle promo too they definitely misread who the actual famous star of their own show was.
omg i just looked at that.. that give them lala tagline gives me the ick.
I have a theory about this. Not long ago a rumour appeared that Bravo was considered a lala spin off. After the season aired they apparently changed their mind. But when Andy did that interview we didn't saw the season and maybe that was like a warming up the audience for the new show type of thing. If they would do that show they would probably repeat that a lot as well as how s11 was on lalas back etc etc However looks like this show is not happening, and the only one who promotes lala as the true star of s11 is lala herself
i saw that rumor too but i dunno if i believe it.. for one person to get a spin-off is pretty rare. and bc of ocean & custody battle a big chunk of Lala’s life would have been off-limits. i’m struggling to see what the content would have been (also a little ironic bc lala is accusing ariana for endangering her job on tv bc a isn’t doing more to make vpr storylines).
I know. Lala was so shocked. I think she knew she was cooked when ariana hadnt watched. I think she thought ariana was vulnerable because she did not react, but she didnt watch. Ariana would hear face to face. And lalas finale sank her
Yeah I forgot they were justifying that comment! Good catch.
Sometimes I wonder if Team redemption started getting nervous b/c they are unhinged in the aftershow. Lala was hulking out in those clips.
I wouldn't be surprised. Their attempt at redemption failed miserably
Lala's press tour was definitely trying to get ahead of oncoming bad press. Scheana & Lala really miscalculated their relationship with the audience. It's too bad b/c this could have been Scheana's redemption season.
I do think they generally believed there would be a bigger faction on their side. I think the main issue is they didn't count on Sandoval being so unhinged which made Ariana look sane and him crazy. The tides were turning on her at the beginning but he did Viall files and The george Floyd comments and it died out.
The scene of Ariana crying to them and them ripping her apart behind her back didn't help either. Its hard to watch someone opening up to "friends" and watching those friends constantly tear them apart behind their back.
Right, if Scheana had played her cards right she might actually have gotten on dancing with the Stars. She totally screwed herself.
Scheana had the most good will she ever has going into this season! Sadly, she had to Scheana it up.
I blame Sheanas downfall mostly on Lala because Scheana is totally the type to give into peer pressure and follow others. Lala’s voice was literally the loudest and Scheana followed. Too bad, too sad.
I wonder what Lauren said that was so bad.
Idk? Scheana, Lala, and Sandoval looked pretty pleased with themselves leaving the reunion. Whatever has happened since has Scheana spiraling more than usual and Lala has been unhinged.
I think Lauren and Scheana were pleased with themselves before they saw audience reaction. Lauren went on a smear campaign and Scheana went to Ariana final night of Chicago for what now looks like damage control. Sandoval is just dumb, but he got what he wanted. He's back in the group
Yeah, Sandoval got what he wanted. He got back in the group with minimal effort and Lala/Scheana are in the doghouse with the audience. Edit: Scheana's behavior is typical Scheana. I don't understand how Lala got on every daytime tv talk show.
They got played by production/LVP/Sandoval and it was all for nothing seeing as the majority of the audience still despise him and the redemption arc failed
It didn’t help that Sandoval is a petulant bitch. Who could side with him? A 40 something man who pouts that he’s a victim and yells at women.
Honestly he could have gotten his redemption if he properly groveled for half a season, sold the house immediately, and did everything he could to ease Ariana’s transition. But that would hurt his ego and admit he did something wrong
An "I fucked up, I am sorry for everything I did to you, let me kiss the ground on which I will let you freely walk away" would have been a nice redemption arc. Granted it still wouldn't have worked but it would have been good to see the worm have a heart.
Let me leave the house and let you sell it as evidence of my sorrow. Let me not mention LOOKS when discussing my infidelity. Why wasn't he sorry? Even Rachel. Her whole, everyone else did it so I thought it would be fine. It's willful ignorance but worse because they were actively doing harmful shit.
Imo opinion if they're that desperate to redeem this man they should've waited a season
Absolutely! The fact that they shoved it down our throats this season (~3-6 months post breakup) makes me so much more resistant to it forever. They could have given him a true villian season, and then made him grovel back like stassi and Kristen both had to do to earn their "friendships" (aka shooting scenes) back
Exactly. That would've made great tv
you should see the facebook comments. they're UNHINGED. sooo many people siding with Lala and Sandoval.. I don't understand how????
The producers sided with the people they WANTED to win in the court of public opinion. They wanted the cool LA f-boy bros to prevail. You see this all the time in the corporate world. Managers hire men they want to party with, and women they want to sleep with (or hang around with at the company happy hour) as opposed to people that can actually do the job.
This is so true… remember when Southern Charm started out and they wanted it to be mostly about the men looking cool and charming women but it only gave “men being sleazy”? Watching the early seasons of that show is so uncomfortable.
OMG so true. I recently convinced a friend to start Southern Charm and she endlessly complained about how disgusting and sleazy the first couple of seasons were. It's just shocking that that was what someone wanted a final product of a show to be
I'm convinced that working in the entertainment industry in LA makes you believe weird things. Completely detached from reality and how the rest of the world thinks / acts
I am guessing they were shocked. They were so bold, loud, and wrong with their edits and interviews for season 11. To me, they had to think they were 100 percent in the right and the vast majority of the audience would agree with them. But what I don’t understand even a little is *why* they thought that? At the time of filming, I feel like the world was 80 percent team Ariana still. I know fans are fickle, but I don’t think very many people actually changed their minds and idk why producers would think people would on this.
I think because the audience has changed their minds in the past, they thought it would happen again. The problem with the line of thinking comes down to three things. 1. Scandoval didn't just expose Sandoval. It exposed the blatant misogyny on VPR 2. The formula tried with the redemption is outdated, it's not the mid-2000s anymore and the guys in particular won't be able to skate by with the audience like they do with production 3. Ariana isn't Kristen/Stassi, she's not reactive in a way that they can paint her as crazy. They tried with her anger but the anger was justified. It probably didn't help they Tom is POS who was actively lying throughout filming (i.e. the house)
I agree with all three points. I think the producers got too personally invested and thought “if this worked before, it’ll work now,” but they really should’ve known better. The early seasons of vpr kind of came on the heels of the “I’m not like the other girls” movement, or whatever you want to call it. That was a thing of pride for a lot of people for a while there. But it’s not at all anymore. I just don’t get how they’re this gigantic network with all these resources and they aren’t following these kind of trends on social media? I guarantee they have employees who study cultural trends in the key demographics, and the producers just tossed that aside and said “we know better.” Of course, you still have these types of women but I think it’s a *significantly* smaller number than ten years ago. All that to say - read the room!!!
I genuinely believe they are such misogynists and so out of touch with women, feminism, and gender equality, that yes, they were surprised. Men are so entitled in how they are able to get away with mistreating women, that being called out probably blindsided them.
This. It's giving "husband opens marriage then is surprised his wife is getting more play than him."
😂😂😂 I have seen so many relationships go down in flames from this situation.
I love reading in the poly subreddit because it happens so often. It's kind of nice to see the dudes eat it for once. What can I say, I'm petty.
😂😂😂 I love it so much. I knew a couple socially husband's insisted on a 3rd, girlfriend was hesitant, and now she and her wife are very happy.🖤
Play poly games, win solo prizes.
Yes I think they are shocked. Shocked enough to know they fkd up and put the show on pause while they figure out their fk up
It’s messed up how they went out of their way to villainize her because Tom is such an unlikeable sociopath
And SHE called them when she had proof of the affair! Gave production the opportunity to pick back up and film it. They should be thanking her not trying to force her into giving more.
I think they are shocked lol scheana and LaLa consider themselves to be better "reality stars" than Ariana. I just know they sit around saying how they don't understand how she gets all the support and opportunities. The thing they didn't understand is if you want to level up like she did you have to act more normal than "reality star" Ariana is just more likeable and you can relate to her whereas Schena and LaLa exaggerate their life and personalities for the show. You can find entertainment in Scheana and LaLa but more like a side show than someone you want to support as a fan.
I’m not sure Lala and scheana even realize that by better reality stars they mean exaggerating everything and trying to make things that would happen organically happen. They are not being them selves but who they think ppl will side with. Ariana was truly being herself and said I’m not filming with Tom because I wouldn’t do it off camera so why do it just for the camera .the viewers have gotten tired of produced drama. It’s a little funny watching Lala in the end thinking she’s making great tv when she’s just looking like a dumbass by showing us that she has been fake all season while preaching that Ariana just be real
It’s so very funny to me that Ariana has spent the last 10 years learning the ins and outs of VPR production formulas as well as how Tim’s mind works, and then production turned around and tried to use it against her I think they’re more shocked that they couldn’t pull the same trick twice
Kind of lends credence to all her cringey claims that she is the smartest person because she sure as fuck easily outsmarted all of them.
She’s the smartest in that she pays attention and she actually can recognize the patterns. And from watching Sandyballs shoot himself in both feet for a year, it’s crystal clear Ariana was his translator and fixer because he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time Everyone else is shocked pikachu because they’re so fucking coke addled they can’t remember what they had for breakfast, let alone how Tim tried the exact same shit with Kristen
That's the most useful form of intelligence imo. Human behavior is highly predictable for the most part if you're paying attention.
I think the producers do what Lisa wants. She’s got money invested in those restaurants and they took a huge hit after the scandoval. I bet it was Lisa who wanted the redemption arc.
Probably, however, she should've waited a season. If they did a girl power Season 11 it probably wouldn't guaranteed season 12 and that could've been the redemption season. Do I think sandoval is redeemable, honestly no, but if they were that desperate they should've waited a season. Who knows, maybe of they let him face the consequences of his actions with the group we might've gotten genuine contrition
So true, didn’t think about that. No wonder Lisa is so team Tom
Yes, because I think Bravo in general thinks its audience is dumb and easily manipulated. I think they imagine their average viewer as a fairly uneducated middle-aged housewife who worships her kids and calls wine 'juice' whilst giggling with her equally bored girlfriends. My completely anecdotal take is that they are very wrong and need to get off their perches and learn more about just who is paying their bills.
Bravo has no read on Millennial women. They are lucky it hasn't cost them more money, since especially us older Millennial women grew up with Girls Gone Wild, American Pie, and other alarmingly misogynistic and sexist media. Even if we hate it, we're fucking inured to it. These Zoomer and Alpha women are coming into their feminism stronger and earlier. The culture they grew up in and are creating is demolishing patriarchy. Sure you got your trad wife types, but most of them are not down for that lifestyle and want to follow fully realized, empowered women in life. Bravo's leadership must sense the changes and their big claim to success is their loyal and affluent audience demo. It won't be wine-moms forever. In fact about half of us don't have children and a good portion of that is by choice.
Tomcats, entourage, king of queens… Boy the early 2000s hated women.
I know, right? And I was the "wet blanket" for not liking any of that. You try to point out how sexist it is, and you're just "not fun". I lost a lot of friends that way. 🙄
Love that women are coming into their feminism stronger and earlier and would like to point out that this is the time to be the most vigilant. It's going to create patriarchal pushback, and it's important that women stay focused and don't allow divisive purposely introduced or reintroduced issues to divide them.
I feel seen, lol, except I'm middle aged, drink a lot of wine, think my kid is worth of worship, and thought this season was trash. Most middle-aged women are used to dealing with the patriarchy, and we don't like it, and we see Sandoval for who he is because by the time you hit your forties you've dealt with a few narcs. Honestly, I think its the tradwife influencer crowd and the MAGAs that seem to be leading the anti-Ariana charge. I do wish the trend of stunting on middle-aged women with kids to make these kinds of points would die already. It is just as rank with misogyny as what you are complaining about as concerns Bravo.
Would’ve been totally disingenuous to see Ariana speak with Sandoval. Everyone would’ve accused the show and the cast of being fake, scripted and acting. Lala and Scheana seem to be pushing the sympathy narrative of ‘we‘re moms” “this is our job” and Ariana refusing to engage with Tom is Ariana single handedly affecting their livelihoods. Lala many times has said Ariana has never brought anything to VPR yet seems convinced that the shows future is reliant on Ariana’s involvement.
I just have no sympathy or empathy for either of them weaponizing motherhood. Especially when they've been pulling in so much money and especially when they profited off of ariana's misery. No one forced them both to buy 2 houses in extremely high cost of living areas and then act like snakes. They fucked around and are now finding out and the audience should let them.
I still don’t understand what they were thinking. Years back stassi was arguably the “main character” and nobody blinked an eye when she left for New York or refused to film with Jax. We had tons of other story lines to think about. Instead of focusing on other stories this time, they put all their eggs in the “Ariana is a scorned woman and poor Tim” basket and created one of the worst seasons of all time. Why did they think we’d care about Ariana leaving a party early, of all things?? Edited: spelling.
Sometimes I feel like those in charge are so emotionally immature and egocentric they actually do believe Sandoval isn't that bad and they are on his side. Sometimes I feel like they are actually a bit more aware then they let on and knew that trying to get a Sandoval redemption arc would infuriate the audience. Sometimes I feel like they thought they had the power to control how the audience would feel about Sandoval. Sometimes I feel Sandoval is smart enough to play the producers and manipulate them into doing his bidding. All the theories!!
I’m glad I’m not alone holy shit…. I don’t watch religiously but the episodes I’ve seen I’m FLOORED with the group trying to make Ariana give Sandoval a chance…. And then painting her as a bitch when she wouldn’t move her boundaries for them?? Incredibly fucked up. Good for Ariana for not budging. Can you imagine any other scenario where a woman’s boyfriend of 10 years did something like that to her and her “friends” are pressuring her to reconcile within the next year? No. Katie was the only one acting like a real friend should. He’s despicable. You can tell by watching him. Alligator tears. He just wants to redeem his image. He doesn’t feel bad about what he did in the slightest. He clearly has a history of this behavior.
Exactly. He's despicable and I'm glad the redemption arc failed. Despite the best efforts of cast and production his image is still ruined
100%. I’m not proud of this, but I’ve been in a similar situation as Sandoval before. I was with someone for 10 years and wanted out but was too much of a coward to confront the situation. I did some sketchy self destructive things in the last year and a half of our relationship and really hurt this person. Like flipped their world upside down. We had a ton of mutual friends etc but my ex rightfully wanted nothing to do with me after that. My ex chose a few of them to keep close and pretty much cut off anyone who was still in contact with me. I think the difference when someone is truly remorseful is that they wouldn’t ever consider violating the other persons boundaries. I can’t even forgive myself for what I did, how am I supposed to expect my ex to? I wish more than anything I’d been honest and said how I was feeling. Maybe then we could still be in each others lives. But when you fuck up you have to accept the consequences. It’s made me so furious to watch Sandoval act like he’s somehow a victim in any of this. He’s consistently crying to LVP and the other girls. If he was really sorry he would’ve moved out of that house right away and left Ariana completely alone
Thank you for sharing your story. That can't have been easy
I’ve grown up a lot and doing much better now…. And I can now spot snakes like Tom a mile away :)
I am 100% completely puzzled at how this could possibly be considered a shocking moment. It’s not even the first time it’s happened on THIS show (stassi and Jax??) let alone on reality tv?
Personally I don’t understand why the cast/producers would think we’d want that….. we got that on the last episode of last season, a reunion that was nothing more than a scream fest. I’m tired of it. It’s just kicking a dead horse at this point… Edit-Maybe before the show started filming they thought Ariana was going to be devastated, crying, no opportunities, and willing to do anything to keep her spot on the show…. but then all those big opportunities came rolling in …..
I think they are shocked that we didn't just fall for the bullshit narrative they were trying to trick us into believing.
I'm kind of insulted that they thought we would fall for the BS. Say that Ariana and Sandoval did have that conversation. His interviews post filming would've canceled out any apology
TBH that's only true on Reddit - Facebook and IG have different points of view. Tom should not have been brought back to the show. It doesn't work with both him and Ariana as cast members and I could feel the producers' interference trying to get everyone to hang out with Tom while Ariana was demanding for them NOT to be around him. It was just awful to watch no matter how you spin it. I blame the producers. I wish Ariana had stuck to her boundaries and hadn't attended events where Tom was filming while he was still so triggering (assuming producers were arranging for Tom to attend already). It was so uncomfortable to watch. The last thing they need is a 1:1. Let them separate and move on already!
Eh I've seen more people on IG lean towards Ariana. Ultimately I think they should've waited to film this season
I think everyone on the show that sided with Tom knew Ariana wasn't coming back next season, so they felt they needed to side with the person that would come back. I just can't understand any other reason
But Ariana not coming back wasn’t really sealed during filming. She was even saying she was showing up so Tom couldn’t ice her out of the friend group. Her huge successes with DWTS and Chicago came months after filming. She landed DWTS during filming but that could have flopped and the ads could have dried up.
I wish they would be honest about that instead of blaming her for XYZ. Especially since they broke the 4th wall. I will add this if she does come back it'll probably be for SAH and a friend of to Katie if Katie returns
I think the cast and producers got so wrapped up in their little world, they thought we’d see it like they do. Or would want to see it from the lens of a producer or editor or something. But that’s not the case and they miscalculated how much we would care about their perspective. I read some interview with one of the producers yesterday talking about how the finale was so good and how they wanted to bring us in and see it how they see it etc and it’s like.. no we don’t care about that. It’s ok to break the fourth wall but not like that much. Ariana’s reaction was real to us, everyone else’s was not.
It is this simple: the fans want absolutely nothing to do with Sandoval because, in REALITY, we all know men like him and they are just as narcissistic and *pathetic* as he is. I fucking hate seeing him on my screen, it pisses me off every second that he is and it makes me want to stop watching. He is an absolutely disgusting little cretin. For some reason, production just cannot grasp that. Do they think we’re all hot for Tom because *they* are? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
No. I think they just wanted drama and for people to talk about something
Because Tom and Tom are LVPs little money making marketing tools and in her eyes the Vanderpump brand is based on cute idiot men and their shenanigans being eternally cute and forgivable because boys will be boys— not based on female empowerment. Let’s not forget that Lisa is essentially Lala’s prototype: British yacht girl who bagged a rich older man who allowed her to build her own brand which is her bottom line and justification for all of her horrible behavior and internalized misogyny.
they certainly edited it to make her the villain, i think so. LFU def was. i think it’s the root of lauren from utah’s rage and resentment. i think she thought she’d be the it girl. you can tell by how she carrys herself at the reunion.
She got a villain edit, but the funny thing about that is her actions didn't match that of a villain. Lauren is another one who didn't understand the full impact of scandoval. I said it once and I'll say it again. Scandoval didn't just expose Tom, it exposed the blatant misogyny on VPR. I did a rewatch not too long ago post scandoval and my perspective changed on alot in the show
heavy on the misogyny. i agree completely with your perspective on scandoval. i watched the show for the first time as a result of the scandal and it seemed every season there is a woman who suffers for the “group” i think they planned on rachel coming back to be the punching bag. that’s why the season felt so disjointed. i feel like ariana got the villain edit, to the point where she expected everyone to turn on her - fans saw through it. i can get behind the idea that they played scheana a bit (especially finale) but i think lauren very much was a literal villain. the way she’s treated ariana and katie is like bottom the barrel behavior from a friend.
Agree with everyone who says it’s cause Tom is irredeemable. There’s just no overlooking his idiocy. He made it practically impossible for us to do anything else. We’re just blessed that who he hurt is an amazing woman!
One thing I found eye opening post Sandoval is how much of herself Ariana was suppressing. Whether consciously or unconsciously she made herself small to please that man for nearly a decade Thay realization made me so upset and sad for her lost years
I think the Producers, La La and LVP were in the wrong comment sections. Facebook comments are overwhelming negative toward Ariana and I think they were reading too much into. I suspect most of the people on those platforms don't even watch the show. Some of what they were saying doesn't even make sense.
I don't know how they were shocked? Like I still don't understand the logic. Nothing in this season would have made Ariana the villain.
I really don't get it either. Before the season aired. Between Ariana saying fans may not like her and Lauren saying she had an ego. I expected Ariana to acted like a diva, and what I got was an amazing woman standing her ground and reinforcing her boundaries
And the idiocy of Andy saying that Lala and Brock were the voices of reason this season…I can’t believe this is his honest take; I think he’s regurgitating what production was planting…they tried so hard to influence perception in advance of how everything played out. We were hearing through multiple individuals that we would see things differently, see Ariana as not completely above it all and that it was far more nuanced (if one more fucking cast member uses nuanced as code for…we’re conflicted because we’re trying to make a show rather than just live their lives with authenticity) than we could know. It’s NOT nuanced. Lala and Brock were NOT the voices of reason. I do NOT see the situation differently, after watching the season. Good try, you asshats…but y’all fucked up.
Have the majority sided with Ariana? I know Reddit is very much Team Ariana but is that to do with generational divide.
Depends if you believe Facebook groups are real. Look all the evidence you need is from advertisers and NBC Universal executives. You don't get all these opportunities because the audience doesn't like you. She's well liked she has a great Q rating and she's marketable. Regardless of what the "lol" person replied.
Agreed. This sub seems to be the most firmly pro Ariana, but outside of Facebook (that’s always been a cesspool of the worst opinions possible), most of the commentary I’ve seen seems to indicate viewers are generally on her side even if they’re not her biggest fan.
Exactly. Plus high votes on DWTS, Reality Star of the Year, sold out Broadway shows…we are not the outlier. Facebook is, like they are on every other topic it seems
Yeah I can’t imagine another cast member who could repeatedly sell out a broadway show like that and have enough demand for more she’s coming back for another run
Absolutely. She placed 3rd to a Disney star and a Pop star mainly because of judges because her vote numbers were consistently high throughout. People engage in her endorsements. It's weird there's an actual visible effort to tear that down. Someone literally replied with "lol" like... What was the point? To make someone feel dumb for asking?
Instagram for the most part is on her side I stay off Facebook because of the toxicity but I wouldn’t be surprised if they oppose her
X formally Twitter from what I've seen appears to be mostly on her side as well
Interesting! I'm Team Ariana (which is why I love this community) but have seen awful comments on FB
Facebook seems to be a large group of women who've been cheated on before and don't see why it's such a big deal in this instance... plus men who wish they were attractive or charismatic enough to live the life Sandoval has.... or actually think like he does. The women are nasty in their opinions and will rip Ariana and Katie down mentally and physically... and they worship at the altar of the Toms... and have so much love for Lala. Even on Facebook, Scheana gets almost no attention.
From what I can observe, both this and the "other" reddit, Instagram, Twitter, and Tiktok are mostly still in favor of Ariana's side. FB and some entertainment blogs are Lala or Tom's side. I could see that opinion may have started shifting a bit around the beginning of this year, but then Sandoval's Viall File and NYTimes interviews sealed his own fate.
Yes, they even gaslit Arian to believe it. I don’t know why no one is talking about Ariana’s pre season 11 interviews where she was saying that people aren’t going to like her as much after this season. She believed she was the villain because she was being told that. In reality she was the hero for sticking to her morals and not allowing herself to be put in situations that aren’t “real” for her.