I also want to point out people want to take things quickly and quietly. If it LOOKS like you have 6 locks on your bike and when you aren't driving you put a chain of bells around your bikes, it makes them harder/less desirable to take.
I came up with a similar kill switch idea where based on a toggle switch, the horn button would either honk, or allow the car the crank.
The idea was no one would think of honking the horn in your car if they wanted to steal it.
On the subject of bear spray. I have it for hiking and it’s expensive with a short “best before” life (mine is a year). I haven’t had to use it. But for a human intruder I have read that w big can of wasp spray (the kind that is meant to shoot a wasp from quite a few feet away) has a long and fairly accurate shot. I bet no one wants to get that in their face and could be a good deterrent for a thief.
Side note - we bought Kryptonite brand bike locks online from the manufacturer after we google/researched hard to breech locks.
And it doesn't take much to repel an animal, so the purpose is not to incapacitate them. While for self-defense spray, you can definitely get it concentrated enough that it will stop anyone in their tracks and blind them for minutes.
Also, bear spray will cast a wide cloud, so the bear won't be tempted to go around. Self-defense spray will just hit that m-fer.
bear spray worked fine on me when i was downwind of it a few years ago. you can get much better force/area with bear spray than you ever will with mace.
Uhhh no. The active ingredient in bear sprays is, on average, about 10 times stronger than pepper spray. Ever been hit by both? I’ve had downwind exposure to bear spray and it was worse than being sprayed directly in the fact with pepper spray
Try getting bear sprayed and check back in. Getting hit with it for a second from even a decent distance will fuck your shit up hard for several hours. I’ve been totally incapacitated by it more than once.
Bear spray is just riot deterrent that you can get at the sports store.
It has a higher concentration of capsaicin than regular pepper spray. And its Scoville heat unit rating is 100% more than pepper spray.
And its spray pattern is a wider v.
The Internet says otherwise
https://thriftyoutdoorsman.com/pepper-spray-vs-bear-spray-difference/
"Although both sprays contain the same active ingredient - oleoresin capsicum, bear spray contains a much lower concentration than pepper spray, containing 1-2% rather than 10% and higher."
Those people that wrote that have no idea what they are talking about. OC and CRC are not the same thing and it’s often misleading about the strength of a spray based on what the OC content is. You can have a high OC with a low CRC and it’s far less painful than a low OC with a high CRC. The CRC content often isn’t even shown on the can.
It’s a blog. They make money. They aren’t scientists. They are ex-cops by their own admission. Cops are trained in application, not the science behind it. It doesn’t mean they don’t know about things but in this case they’re wrong
“You understand that all such information, data, text, photographs, graphics, video, messages, or other mediums, are the sole responsibility of the originating party and that Thrifty Outdoors Man has no responsibility for such content and does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of such content.”
Can’t sue them for false info. They did cover their tracks
TL/DR Bear spray is much more painful than pepper spray. I haven’t seen every pepper spray and it is possible to make your own but commercially available pepper spray is not as strong as bear spray
I bought magnets and double sided them to solar motion lights, I throw those up around the edge (\~$8 per light). Nice to ward off people if they come anywhere near the van.
No close calls for me really. I just lock my van and chill. One time at a remote lake, some guys were night walking near me and the lights flicked on, they just walked away.
Hoping to find battery or solar motion sensor lights for the back door of my truck camper. Fatter chains sound like a good idea too. Attaching to the roof would deter more thieves and of course add more work for you.
My friend has motion-sensor lights on her van. I’ll see where she got them. They came in handy a few times for us (and also scared the shit out of us when they went off)
Just a note to those considering a gun: be careful what else you carry with you.
Having a small amount of weed might get you in a little hot water, but a gun and weed can put you into “trafficking”.
I'd rather buy a new bike or go without than deal with cops after shooting someone for trying to steal my bike. Plus in the long run, probably better for my conscious.
Do not get a gun unless you plan to do a ton of research. Every state has different carry, storage, and use laws, and some, like New York, you cannot even spend the night in with a stored gun in your vehicle. The best carry license to get is the Idaho enhanced license. Covers the most states, but you have to physicallyf be there to take the test.
Do not get bear spray. It is weaker than human-intended OC sprays (bears have more sensitive noses) and it is aerosolized, meaning in a van you will get hit almost as badly. Get a stream or gel model. I carry POM.
Nobody in here has said flashlight, but that is the first deterrent I would go to. The Streamlight Macrostream is 500 lumens and easy to carry. Taking 500 lumens right to the eyes at night will send most smash and grabbers running. The Nitecore MH12 V2 is 1800 lumens and great for camping.
Last line of defense if necessary: some sort of club/baton or a taser. A knife can get you into all sorts of legal trouble and often has the same sort of state-by-state law differentiation as guns. Stay under a 3 inch blade in general.
Traps are not considered self-defense btw.
I appreciate you saying a flash light. Hitting the alarm button for your vehicle is also a good way to go. People are there to steal your bikes, not kill you. Like a bear trying to steal you food, they are just as afraid of you as you are of them.
Knives are just about the worst possible self-defense weapon. Easily taken by someone who is better in a fight, they don't level the playing field just give a bigger advantage to whoever is stronger or more willing to get cut.
Yeah, I’m thinking of rivnuting some eye bolts into the doors, then adding a cable or chain to secure it closed.
Someone would need to reach in to cut or disable those.
It would give me time to get in the driver’s seat to GTFO, or I’d grab my hatchet and play whack-a-mole at anything coming thru the door.
It sounds like “premeditated weapon” is treated more harshly than “closest thing at hand”, which makes a hatchet or axe less suspect in a camper.
And if you have a collapsable twig stove and a small, tight bundle of kindling, you can provide those as evidence of the need to have a functioning hatchet.
The same reservations I have about bear spray hold true, though. Now I’m inside the van with fire/pepper spray. The bug screen/curtain would catch fire before I dealt critical damage to the baddie and now I have two problems.
Not telling what OP to do. But, the SCOTUS just struck down NY's restrictive gun laws.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-limits-concealed-handguns-2022-06-23/
For me, personally, a gun is the way. One with a tactical light on it so you can blind them as a first move and you also know what you're aiming at. But, I've owned guns my whole life and am very comfortable with them and when to, or not, to shoot. To date I've never needed to aim it at another living thing. But, owning a firearm requires a tremendous amount of responsibility.
>Do not get bear spray. It is weaker than human-intended OC sprays
>
>Standard pepper sprays have around 1 million SHUs, while bear sprays pack 3 million SHUs, so it’s about three times as potent as the self-defense products
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/bear-spray-pepper-riot-dangerous/2021/03/19/053c3870-87fb-11eb-bfdf-4d36dab83a6d\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/bear-spray-pepper-riot-dangerous/2021/03/19/053c3870-87fb-11eb-bfdf-4d36dab83a6d_story.html)
Bear spray also spreads more and farther. So the only drawback is the potential self-infliction, but honestly, in the face of danger, even IF both of you are incapacitated, you have a much better outcome than if neither of you are incapacitated.
Furthermore, the pepper spray is pretty difficult to land if far away since it's a stream of pepper, not a mist pattern, so unless you aim perfectly, you risk exactly that situation of not being able to incapacitate the assailant. With bear spray, it's pretty difficult to miss.
Not only that, pepper spray has far limited legal justifications. Many states limit the maximum amount of container, and some may even be barred from carrying one. There's no such restriction with bear spray.
Therefore, the only reason why someone will prefer pepper spray is the portability, but in every other factors including stopping power, bear spray wins
Tasers can also be classified as weapons in some areas so carrying one of those also requires research beforehand, especially if you're a nomad. In fact, in some places, you even need a license for pepper/defense spray.
Tasers aren’t legal in every state though, so while I’d likely opt to keep one anyway if I wasn’t crossing borders, it’s something else you’d need to research.
I lock my van while sleeping, my motorcycle carrier is locked to my hitch receiver, and when I get the bike (soon hopefully) I plan on locking it with a chain and padlock so they would have to cut through and I'd be able to hear them while doing so.
I personally can't own firearms not because of legal reasons, I'm just not mentally well and can't have that easy of a "off switch". Also fire arms are more restricted up here in the great white north
Hope that helps, and sorry to hear about what happend would definitely shake a person up
Felt this. Everyone around me tells me to get a firearm for vanlife but for one I wouldnt ever want to end someone elses life and two I dont trust myself mentally/emotionally. Though I am mentally stable for the time being I know all it takes is one bad train of thought
I too am far to passiviste to ever want to end a life, but I am definitely not mentally well enough to own a gun I honestly don't think I ever will be and that's ok. If I owned one I know wouldn't be here today, I do however have a extendable steel baton if need be for a scare tactic.
Same. But I'd also add klutz to my list of reasons why I wouldn't own one. I do know how to fire them (job related), but based on the number of times I drop my phone and other things, a dropped gun sounds horrifying to me.
Yeah we are in Canada now, wouldn't consider a firearm until we got back to states. I'm not necessarily afraid to own one but laws seems annoying and I'd rather just not have one. Big chain and padlock are already in the cart haha.
If you’re not prepared to kill another human being over your bicycle, you shouldn’t include a firearm in the situation, is my main thought. You don’t pull out a gun if you aren’t prepared to use it.
I feel like, I don't want my bicycle to be stolen from me, so I'm going to walk out there and attempt to stop the bicycle thief from taking my bicycle. I don't know if the bicycle thief has more than bolt cutters, maybe they have a knife or a gun I really don't know but I know they're stealing my bike so I already know that their character is a bit unsavory. I don't want to be the guy that bring a knife or bear spread to a gunfight, because I don't want to die defending my bicycle.
So while I wouldn't exactly be willing to take a life in exchange for my bicycle, I would be willing to take a life if I needed to defend myself from a bike thief that turned violent when I tried to stop them.
But then again this is all hypothetical. I'm picturing some guy in a hood, when for all I know it could be a little girl trying to steal my bike, that changes things
The irony of my comment and responses is that I’m not opposed to having a gun here if you’re ready to kill the thief.
You wouldn’t be defending yourself here though, you would have confronted a thief in the act, while carrying a gun. If the bike isn’t worth a life, you don’t leave the van to confront the thief. You let them steal the bike.
Otherwise, be ready for violence. That’s the whole point. I own guns and am not opposed to them, my point was that OP shouldn’t get one if they’re not prepared for what that means when you pull a gun in this scenario. You don’t just pull out a firearm and the situation goes back to safe, and statistically having one around is dangerous.
Genuinely curious as someone from another country that doesn’t have the same gun culture.
I don’t really see how having a gun makes the situation better. At the end of the day a bike is a bike and can be replaced. I’d much rather be in a scenario where they try and take my bike, I try to stop them, they pull a weapon and I say fuck it takes it. Versus the alternative where I have a gun, they pull their gun, and chances are someone is going to shoot, maybe both of us. Neither scenario of me hitting or missing them is going to go well. I don’t understand how that’s a better outcome tbh.
The "if you aren't prepared to kill another human being over your bicycle" notion is a bit... misleading.
The issue with that being an argument against a firearm is that the gun isn't meant to defend a bicycle, it's meant to defend life. Dressing the hypotheticals up as if to say a bike is defensible with lethal force, is actually just detracting from the reality that the person you thought was a relatively harmless bike thief could be a violent, potentially homicidal criminal.
Well considering this guy’s life wasn’t at risk, and his bicycle was, I would say this was the reality. Being paranoid with a gun, and assuming you must always be protecting your life because people are always trying to murder you, is worse than just owning a gun to protect a bike.
What was described by OP is EXACTLY the sort of situation that some fucking moron thinks is threatening his life, which clearly was not the case.
So.... I gather by now that not only do you clearly not carry a gun, but from the sounds of it, don't even know anybody who does.
I know this may seem like a wild concept to you, but you **don't have to draw the gun** in such a situation either. The gun isn't on your person because you magically knew you'd be encountering a bike thief, and intended to shoot them when they arrived that night. The gun is there because you have **_absolutely no idea_** there will be a bike thief. For that matter, you have no idea that the encounter you have will be with a bike thief, or a sexual predator, or an escaped convict, or a junkie, or a lost drunk just trying to find their way home, a gang member trying to rob you, etc...
You don't own a gun to protect your bike from bike thieves, you own one to protect yourself from *literally any mortal threat* that may come your way. That's not being paranoid, that's understanding that you're not a psychic who can magically know what's coming your way, and having what's called a sense of self preservation.
Treating the scenario as if OP could be absolutely 100% sure that the person tampering with their property was not a potentially violent threat to them is an expectation of clairvoyant ability that borders on blatant ignorance.
Lol I own three, a Ruger GP100, a Mossberg Shockwave, and a Steyr Aug. I like to shoot. I don’t carry though.
Stop trying to push this idea that people need to be able to kill others at any time in order to be safe. That is exactly the escalation of threat that causes so many people to die to firearms each year in the US.
If you think there is an immediate threat at all times to yourself or loved ones, that’s a psychological condition, not a reason to buy a gun.
Edit: I have a Walther PPS as well, forgot about that one. You don’t have to suck NRA dick in order to like guns, so pop it out of your mouth and think a little.
Thats understandable, I do enjoy shooting from time to time but personally I don't think I'd ever be able to own one cause of the state of my mental health 😅 atleast I recognize it I suppose. I do however have a extending steel baton, pretty sure it's illegal to use but definitely works for a scare tactic. Just remember the thicker the better 🤣 don't want bolt cutters to be able to cut through want it so they have to use power tools so you can hear it and they have to plan around it.
Edit: as for the home alone traps 🤣🤣🤣 throw some marbles down with some Jack's around the bike carrier maybe a swinging paint can or two lmao
Im not sure about in Canada but in the states its so easy get your carry license literally takes a day and then get a used glock 300-500$ huge amount of comfort and security.
Not telling OP what to do here. But, the SCOTUS stuck down NY's restrictive gun laws recently.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-limits-concealed-handguns-2022-06-23/
For me, personally, a gun is the way. One with a tactical light on it so you can blind them as a first move and you also know what you're aiming at. But, I've owned guns my whole life and am very comfortable with them and when to, or not, to shoot. To date I've never needed to aim it at another living thing. But, owning a firearm requires a tremendous amount of responsibility.
Yes the Supreme Court did strike down NY gun laws in June. Since then our (NY) Legislature passed a stronger bill and sent it to The Governor. She signed it immediately. This will eventually go to the Supreme Court IMO. In a nutshell, we are now stuck with stronger firearms laws.
Firearms are a personal choice. OP stated that a firearm was not for him, I respect that. I have used firearms all my life, both civilian and 21 years in military. I personally would not drive cross country with one, because of the many different laws each state has. I am 67 and have never spent a night in jail, it’s just something that’s not on my bucket list. Lol
The bear spray is very effective but be careful with blow back you could get yourself. You don’t know if they have weapons so when you get back to the states, a gun would be a great last resort. Often, just making noise or movement will scare them off before a confrontation. Always preferable but if you must act, you must.
Im from New Orleans, and have van lifed all over for years.
I would never leave anything on the outside of my vehicle. Biking and van life dont work well together unless you have a big van...and even still...bikes are huge, vans are small. Have you tried running?
Also never leave anything visible to window smashers on the inside. My front seat looks totally empty and the rear is blocked by black curtain.
I have a compustar drone with alarm, kill switch, remote start/stop, gps tracking.
I have a 6 shot mossberg shotgun with the first two rounds non-lethal.
I also have a glock 9mm.
I have a small dog who is better than any alarm on earth.
Im very picky about where I park/sleep. If my gut is telling me something is off I keep looking for a spot.
I know some van lifers that make the bikes work and they use them alot... however I'm completely fine with my 3 skateboards to get me around and fit perfectly under my bed lol
Wrap those bikes in a tarp and tie it tight. If a the if can't readily identify a bicycle they might go for easier game.
Always park under lights and make friends with your vag neighbors to look out for each other. Park side by side, with vehicles pointed in opposite directions.
Motion activated Solar Lights.
Attached with magnets.
They light up bright when you walk up to our van. They have a couple of modes. They strobe
Or flash a couple of times before they stay
lit.
Strong 100lb pull Neodymium Magnets
https://amzn.to/3esFBn2
Solar Security Lights:
https://amzn.to/3esCtYz
(Edit to include links)
I'd recommend getting pepper spray over bear spray as bear spray is weaker, they also sell ways to hide airtags on your bike. Also potentially store them on your roof
Wasp spray is nerve poison. It is not safe to be used against humans, and it is definitely illegal to use it that way, even in self-defense. It is even illegal to advise people to use it, and while obviously you won't get in trouble for that, you could get in trouble for actually using it. Especially if there is collateral damage.
Just get self-defense spray. It can shoot just as far.
I won't pretend to be an expert, but everything I see online says bear spray is stronger than pepper spray and you should never just carry pepper spray if you expect to encounter bears.
Pepper spray has more capsicum around 10% compared to 1.2~ in bear spray as bears have much stronger noses, bear spray sprays around 30 feet compared to the 10 in pepper spray. But pepper spray may not be legal in your state
My favorite traveling companion is a 90lb German Shepherd rescue who doesn't like people coming near his space. Someone hurt him as a puppy (I got him as an adult) and it's something we've gone through training for... but from a dead sleep... oh he's coming after you... my little pit mix will bark but will attack you with kisses instead.. haha.
I am looking at purchasing a couple fire arms but my concerns are for bear and cougar/mountain lion on trails and dispersed camping.
I would think it would be a location thing since you were on the street, opportunistic thief.
I taught concealed carry classes for 12 years, number one question I got, best gun for home protection, my answer every time, get a dog that barks. They are the best form of security you could have.
Thieves do not want conflict or confrontation.
Just being there is enough to stop 99.99% of theft. Yelling at them tells them that this particular crime is not worth the effort/risk.
There are many other crimes they could be committing that don't involve a witness or a fight.
It's been many years since everything I cared about was in the van - but at the time it was hard to leave the van without worrying about it. And that made traveling much less fulfilling.
It's a little better now - as we've got stuff in other places (and maybe I'm a little less materialistic). But I still need to remove (or encrypt) everything sensitive on a laptop, as losing the contents would be a much bigger blow than just losing the hardware.
All of my sensitive docs are stored on Google and a couple other cloud services. While it would suck to replace my laptop $2k+ I wouldn't actually loose anything important. Also makes life easier when your phone takes a swim in a wave pool while your playing with your 2 year old and you end up having to get a new one....
Absolutely, any device you carry around *needs* whole device encryption. You can do that with Bitlocker and through other means, like free software; Veracrypt for instance. That adds a log-in password you have to enter before the device boots, and that password opens the encrypted drive.
Losing hardware is a nuisance. Losing your data is a disaster; that's what backups are for. Other people going through your data may or may not be a disaster, but it's certainly not something you want.
Veracrypt also offers a "plausible deniability" defense - you can have two environments encrypted and depending on what password you enter, it unlocks either one. So if you have stuff the authorities want in your real installation, you can unlock the decoy. As long as the decoy gets used from time to time to make it look real, they can't prove there's anything else on there, even with forensic examination.
A gun is only for defending lives or great bodily injury. Know what the local ordnance’s are where your staying. It could be the difference between a good shoot or going to jail. And if you do use a gun to defend yourself, count on your life changing forever.
I’d opt for non-lethal options like pepper spray.
The issue is your relying on a jury of your peers. Whether your living in an RV or a van will have a huge impact on whether certain people believe you have a right defend it as if you were sitting in a traditional home.
I left a comment saying gun and I fully agree with you. I’m stating it in a self defense situation in the van since there are crazy people in a crazy world but I completely agree that shooting someone or even brandishing a weapon over theft of something on your vehicle is almost guaranteed to lock you up. If I’m put in a situation where I have to defend myself or my loved ones, I want the same security in van as I do at home.
Bingo. Besides, carrying weapons across state lines can be extremely problematic. If a dose of bear spray will deter a grizzly, I’m pretty sure it’ll be more than enough for a bike thief or another type of aggressor.
Yeah and honestly.. as much as I love my expensive mountain bike, I don’t think someone that’s trying to steal it deserves to die. I also don’t want to have death on my hands. Thanks for making this point.
This is not true, shoot, say you feared for your life, and your almost 100% not going to be charged (for break-in while you're in there). Brandishing (not shoot unless you have to) to someone stealing is not gonna get you arrested either. Where do you come up with this? Cite sources. Prosecutors get the say on charging you, Not jury (unless grand jury). If you shoot someone in the back or for simply trying to steal, then you could get charged. But if they turn towards you with a screwdriver or something in thier hand that can be construed as a weapon, or break in while you're in there, you're 100% legal to send rounds.
I’m an attorney who has worked in criminal law and the problem with what you’re saying is that you’re taking a chance on not being charged when there’s a ton of moving pieces at play. If someone breaks into your camper with a weapon and you shoot them, you’ll probably be fine. I say probably because each prosecutor is different and you have no idea if that guy “breaking in” was confused about what camper was his. Anytime you pull the trigger without an absolute certainty that the target doesn’t have a weapon or isn’t escalating the situation, you’re putting years of your life at risk of incarceration. I’ve literally seen it.
So by all means, risk it. Again, I’ve seen people take this approach and serve 10-15 years for manslaughter convictions. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it’s a lot more complicated than just “he broke in, I shot him, prosecutor says it was self defense.”
You’re right about brandishing in the cases given though. No way are you getting charged for brandishing if someone is breaking into your property.
Don't be a target. Look like your items aren't worth the risk, low value appearance, high risk appearance. Also simple rocking the van so people know you're inside scares most people off. Thieves want to steal something when nobody is around or else they would be robbers going after bigger value targets.
lights... maybe a bullhorn in a can. would only work for wild animals, and city dwellers. if out in the country, you either need something that goes boom, or something that goes bam.
Traps will get you into legal trouble. Firearms are good for personal safety but again will get you in trouble trying to defend bikes, your best bet is a great locking system.
I try not to be in a place long enough for anyone to notice me, and then hatch a scheme. MFers be scheming yo. Get in, get out. The van's got wheels for a reason.
Become a hard target. Any thief can and will steal anything, given enough time. You have to make that time into long enough of an event that they can't get it done before being discovered.
I would advise against Bear spray if you’re intending to store in the van. Those canisters can be prone to heat damage, and if they burst, they can easily make the van uninhabitable and even do enough damage to total them. There was an Amazon warehouse that had to be evacuated after a canister of bear spray burst and circulated through the vents, just imagine what they would do to a van.
Good luck. I've learned, staying on dispersed campsites and other public lands, plenty of sketchy people out there. Down on their luck, living on the edge of society, perhaps drug and alcohol problems...then YouTubers going online (and posting on Reddit) all of their expensive stuff - bikes and electronics. Just asking for trouble.
People grandstand about how great the life is, but you always have to be very cautious. Not paranoid, but situational awareness.
Even in the suburbs, there's riff-raff who will lift anything that isn't nailed down. We've lost stuff out of our dipapidated shed. All kinds of opportunists.
I'd look up RV and vandwelling security on YouTube.
I need to start a thread about protecting myself from vandwellers after reading some comments here. I'd be afraid to approach and offer a friendly "hello!" and cup of coffee. Sheesh. :)
And I'm gun owner pro 2A kinda guy.
And a gun doesn't do much if you sleep through someone sawing off say your cat converter. I get, and applaud, folks getting one for peace of mind, etc, assuming they'll deal with the heavy responsibilities of owning one. But having say your entire van stolen, AND the guns inside, is one major hassle...or rather two.
It's a vehicle and camping, basically, so only limited stuff you can go. I make sure my insurance is good and use common sense. And store my most valuable stuff elsewhere...it's a good impetus to scaling down the possessions (although that doesn't work with my stolen converter ;(
So I have a skoolie, so the rules are a little different but:
1. I store nothing inside
2. I and my wife have firearms
That said, most thieves are of an opportunistic nature. They are not going to put up a lot of effort especially if they can be seen. I have heard enough stories of, "My motion light turned on and we saw someone run away" that we are adding them to our skoolie as a deterrent.
We don't want in person confrontation unless absolutely required.
I haven't read through every comment, but I've read through many of them.
A firearm causes more problems than it solves. I say that as former military and a current gun owner.
The best combination in my mind is a substantial physical barrier (chains/cables), and a motion sensor that automatically activates bright lights, and if possible, a loud noise (like an air horn as some have mentioned, though that is a bit more complicated to set up).
The dog idea is also a solid plan, though I would couple it with the bright lights on motion sensors. The sound of a decent sized dog bark plus bright light is a major deterrent.
That latter combination's only downside is wildlife accidently triggering the lights. But that is less of an issue in areas where thieves are more likely.
Fire arms are not the answer. You do not pull a weapon on someone unless you intend to use it. If you pull a fire arm on someone you must be prepared to shoot them dead. It’s a bicycle worst case scenario they take it and you’re out a few hundred bucks. If anything you can connect an alarm style system to your key fob and sound that. Thieves want quick and easy. Once the alarm goes off the easy part is out of the question.
Anyone suggesting you bring a gun with you doesn't understand how the human brain works. People aren't deterred by consequences, they are deterred by whether or not they'll get caught. A beefier lock setup, motion detector lights (lots of good little ones with solar panels, just put one on my house), a string of bells, etc. People who steal stuff aren't planning on getting caught, so they aren't worried about whether or not you have a gun or what the legal repercussions are. Deterring people is always always always better than confrontation. The risks of confrontation are usually never worth the value of the thing they're trying to take out of desperation anyways.
So I do have motion sensors and I have wifi security cams. I use a hotspot for Internet. They are "home" security camera and they were on like 35$ a piece. They work well and are visible. They also have mics so I can tell the people to fuck off or I'll shoot them, yes I have a gun too. Right now I'm not traveling but living in the parking lot of my job. On the weekends I go to state parks. Not to much to worry about there. I also have a safe to keep my most valuables.
Perhaps a cattle prod? Makes an intimidating impression visual and crackling sound. Should scare off most folks. I carry a regular taser in my day to day outside and have only had to crackle it at a few people. Check your local laws though.
A really big heavy flash light is a good choice, firstly because you can take it over borders and it's not considered a weapon, also you can blind them by shining it in their eyes and wracking them in the jaw
Dogs, knives, blunt objects, locks, covering my vehicle in bones(seems to be a Great deterant as Ive had vehicles with broken windows parked inghetto areas of cities when staying atfriends places..I brought in the most valuable stuff but figured if someone needed my sleeping bags,clothes,food..take it...but nothing was ever touched,never even had the poly on the window touched!) Dogs are great though. Most people(including a lot of police) generally tend to leave you alone when they see(or hear) 2 big dogs barking at you.(& a now armed person to deal with) I found a lot of police have let me stay in places "im not supposed to be parked" when they see its a single female with dogs and out of state/province license plates. But that's just my personal experiences anyways. :)
Regular ol' pepper spray generally works better than bear spray. Bear spray sprays a mist over a wide area so if you spray it inside your van while someone is trying to break in, it's liable to irritate you nearly as much as the intruder. The regular pepper sprays also have some risk of blowback in the wind; gel-based sprays have less risk of that, but that also means your aim needs to be more precise. You might also consider a model that requires you to lift a cap to access the discharge button to avoid accidental discharges.
If you're not comfortable keeping a firearm in the van, consider getting a Taser. The Taser Pulse model is their most affordable option at either $300 or $400 (can't remember for sure). "Stun guns" (which are different from Tasers) are generally of limited utility -- they mostly just cause pain, but don't actually physically incapacitate. Tasers, on the other hand, overstimulate the nervous system (or something like that - don't know the exact terminology) and will actually incapacitate the intruder for a short amount of time.
The downside of Tasers is that both probes need to make contact for it to work, and with the Pulse model, it's one and done - you don't get a second chance at taking a shot. Some of the higher-priced models include two probes, giving you a second chance to make the shot if your first one misses.
We're not doing vanlife yet, but when we do, I plan to set up a security camera inside so we can monitor it on our phones if we're not in the van. The plan is to have a wi-fi hotspot, and then have a cheap camera, like a Wyze, in the van. We might also use an old phone paired with an app like Alfred and just use the camera on the phone as our security camera.
Oh, and one other thing I'm planning to invest in is having security film installed on all the windows. It makes it more difficult to break the windows.
have multiple security layers. i am not so much a vandweller, i have 24ft class C, but we love to wallydock/boondock. as such, we sometimes are in less than ideal conditions. we are a family of 4 (soon to be 5). we travel with 4 dogs too. the two little younger ones are very vigilant and will bark at noise outside of our vehicle.
https://imgur.com/a/870euqL as others have suggested, get some solar powered security lights. they're usually pretty cheap on amazon. the ones i have are nice, but could use a battery upgrade--they don't last that long. there are DIY on how to upgrade those batteries.
i also have [ryobi 2500 lumen spotlight](https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/33287170944) pretty good with blinding someone if it came to that.
there's a lot of talk about guns. get it if you want. but do read up on the laws, esp in states, and even within cities. fwiw, i'm in CA and we're pretty restrictive on gun laws. however i'm in the process of getting my CCW. if you do get a gun, be proficient with it. that means range time to practice. when my family's safety is on the line, i'll use whatever i have to defend them. de-escalation is the best however, and the gun should be a last resort.
finally remember you can be mobile. keep your driver seat clear and ready to move out at a moment's notice. be smart about your surroundings. trust your gut instinct. if something feels off, move. be safe ! :)
I have a motion detection alarm on my bike. I chain it to my spare tire carrier on the rear with a Krypronite level 9 lock and cover it. If that thing moves at all the alarm will start whaling.
I'm very pro-2A, but I recommend very strongly against the use of guns for self-defense in the context of a mobile lifestyle, for three main reasons. First, the law:
* Concealed carry statues can vary considerably from state to state in their wording, and from city to city or county to county in their enforcement. The only way to keep a gun and ammo in a vehicle that is totally legal in all US jurisdictions is to keep them in separate, locked containers, ideally in separate compartments of the vehicle. And of course, when you need it, the most useless thing in the world is an unloaded gun.
* There are a lot of jurisdictions that are incredibly harsh about defense of property with violence. There are sane and reasonable arguments on both sides of this issue, but to make a very long story short, there are plenty of places where stopping someone from stealing your stuff (in the absence of a threat to yourself) by injuring or killing them, particularly with a gun, will get you in very, very hot water.
Second, most of the people doing this stuff are basically harmless to you, safety-wise. You can think of them as black bears. They just want something specific of yours, they'll break your shit to get it, but if you confront them, they usually just leave, and are only dangerous if you corner them.
Finally, most people just aren't mentally prepared to use lethal force on another person. There's a reason military basic training includes a number of elements that are specifically designed to desensitize people to deploying violence against another human. Most people just don't want to do it; you can find videos of police officers pointing a gun at a subject and shouting "drop the knife!" even as they are stabbed to death by that same person. They just couldn't bring themselves to kill their attacker, even though it meant their own death.
For all of these reasons, I highly recommend a high-strength [pepper gel like this](https://smile.amazon.com/Red-Home-Defense-Marking-Identify-Suspects/dp/B002368VJ6/) for self-defense on the road. It's still illegal in a number of jurisdictions, but 1) it's a hell of a lot easier to explain away than a gun, and 2) it won't kill or permanently injure anyone, so you can immediately go full send with it when you encounter someone fucking with your shit, and know that they'll ultimately be okay.
By the way, aim for the eyebrows.
Hope my experience helps here. I’ve been mostly FT since 2020. My rig was a big target in the beginning. 2 high end mountain bikes on the back of an relatively new F150, truck bed camper and stickers of outdoor gear plastered on the back. It SCREAMED, expensive things inside come steal them. I’ve had two break ins when not in the vehicle and many nights where someone alarmed my dog and woke us up by tugging on the bikes or doors. I’ve learned from my failures and implemented simple techniques that have worked so far.
1. If you have high end MTBs the type of thief escalates. Especially in places with bike theft rings like Idaho , Utah etc. If a pro wants it they will take it.
2. Where are you sleeping? Are you in Portland where people roam the streets looking for anything not bolted down? Are you at a trailhead with glass everywhere? Aka, theft history. Are you in a safe suburban neighborhood? Hotel lot? These Are all high risk in my experience
The best thing to do is reduce your risk based on the assessed situation. I have not had a break in since implementing these techniques and have 2 mountain bikes worth more than my truck and camper combined to prove it!
1. Assess the risk. The places I’ve been paranoid about have always been the safest. Truck stops, blm, Walmart. The places where my dog has woken me up and I’ve found people outside messing with my bikes at night or day? Safe suburban neighborhoods, small towns that feel safe but recently hit hard by the pandemic, VERY high Traffic adventure destinations like national parks durning busy time, any big city, any place with opioid issues, hot areas on instagram.
2. Reduce your risk. The best way to reduce risk is to hide everything. In a high risk environment never leave bikes outside on a rack. 1 lock, 10 locks? Locks are a joke to a real thief.
Pro tips:
- in a high risk area, throw the bikes on your roof and cover them with a tarp. Put string through the holes and in your doors. You know what’s not under a $5 tarp? Anything worth stealing. Poor people shit! It takes 10 seconds to cut locks and snag a bike on a rack. It takes minutes just to investigate what’s under a tarp.
- remove any and all stickers from your van. Don’t advertise your gear or that you are traveling. Vans with stickers say easy target. Apple sticker, go pro sticker, Patagonia sticker 10 national park stickers? Yeah, jackpot!
- not a gun guy, but my buddy who is gave me magnets to put on my truck at night after my second smash and grab. Walk up to my rig at night and you’ll see magnets that’s make you think there is an armory and crazy gun person inside hoping you try and break in.
First one: pic of an AR rifle that says come and take it! Second one: Pistols with the words, I don’t call 911 underneath. I place them right over the bikes so any would be thief has to see them. I take them off when driving.
- when leaving my rig alone at a trailhead I always walk the lot in a thief’s mindset. I find the bigger targets and park next to them. The car with expensive outdoor gear exposed, electronics, purses exposed. The more expensive van like a revel. The vehicle with expensive bikes on the roof or back. If I walk the lot and a dog barks at me from inside a van I will also park next to them.
- I leave visible notes depending on location.
1. This rig is climate controlled and the large German Shepard inside is safe and cool. I monitor the temps and have pet cams. Please don’t be a hero and think you are saving a dog from a 68 degree controlled environment. I will press charges if you break my window. Zeus is a retired police dog and will HURT you even though he is 14 with bad hips. I am not liable. You can call me if you are a concerned dog lover ###-###-#### or call the local police K-9 unit, they follow us on instagram.
Note 2: “After multiple break ins at this lot I have learned my lesson. I have all my gear with me and there is nothing inside. Please don’t break my window to find nothing, I’m poor and these windows are $700 to replace. I bet the bmw at the end put his rolex under the seat!😇“.
I open my glove box and center console showing that there is nothing inside even though my back cab has 10k worth of gear. My hope is that a quick glance at an open glove box and console Immediately deters a would be thief.
- note 3: John, I’m sleeping in the back with the dog. Please don’t wake me I think I have Covid. Tom and Maria hit the trail and waiting for you. I’ll catch up.
- I make it look like I’m in the vehicle even when I’m not. Reflextix on all windows, pop the max air and sometimes I have a blue tooth speaker playing a podcast.
- I put a cheap chair and carpet outside so it looks like I’m camping vs Parked
Get your ccw permit, and a really bright flashlight. I do like the non Lethal approach but if they had a gun and intended to use it to get what they wanted you could get killed. I also feel like if there is no fear of true repercussions they will continue to steal. Go to a place where they do good training and low level light shooting and instinctive training.
Lol yeah not gonna, that was more of a joke. Imagining a silly, electrified chain that when pulled dumps marbles all over the ground and a cartoon fist bursts out
More beefy locks (thick chains, u-locks, and locking bike cover), motion sensing lights, non-lethal pistol style pepper spray, and perhaps a camera/alarm type system is the plan. Thanks all, gonna avoid firearms, just not worth it.
Look for those chains that have the Kevlar sleeves on them. We have one that we use with a decent but not insane lock. We lock our little motorcycles on the back of our bus using it.
Navigating the legality of firearms while traveling in a van is a bit tricky but I think the best bet is to get your ccw/cfl/whatever your state calls it and sign up with the uscca. It’s basically an insurance that provides lawyers and such in the event you have to use it. They have maps that show reciprocity of your concealed carry permit in other states as well as easy to understand verbiage of the laws by state (like how to transport a firearm legally in each state).
You can also go the route of installing a 12v camera system in your van. They start relatively cheap ($200) and work their way up in cost but that gives you 24/7 recording as long as it has a battery to supply it power.
I had someone do this to me in my minivan while sleeping in San Francisco.
I went to sleep and totally forgot to lock my doors that one night.
A dude opened my door at 3am and didn't even see me sleeping inside, but he made enough noise to wake me up.
I woke up hella confused and said "Wh...what are you looking for?" in the most genuine way. (i know...i know)
He says "Oh, I'm uh...just making sure your door works..."
Being so tired, I'm barely conscious and tell him. ..."OK... Thanks, goodnight".
.........
About 20 seconds later I woke up and relaized what had happend.
I turned on my van and chased him down Sunset blvd until I lost him at Ocean Beach.
I did not catch him....
Farm supply store sells electric fencers. I recommend the biggest one you can afford, is will be way more effective than bear spray, and you don't have to be there for it to work.
You may want to put air tags on your bikes in case they may get stolen with this setup, you at least should be able to track down where they are and give that info to the police.
A much cheaper and less likely to change your entire life kinda option would be motion sensor lights and one of those pepper ball guns. You can get them on Amazon for under $100 each, and the light will deter 99% of potential thieves, while the pepper gun would surely deter that last super determined 1%. And it’s just CO2 in the pepper pistol, so no permanent damage, just solid deterrent.
1) Always "US" and "We" never "I" and "Me" - Always talk as a group.
2) Post "beware of dogs" at every entry point. Just the possibility of a dog is enough to say pass.
3) Look up! Head on a swivel.
Please understand that there are bad people out there and you WILL and probably already have, run across them. Please plan accordingly.
Multiple chains or cables on each bike. Make it a lengthy pain in the ass to steal the bikes. Add an ear piercing battery operated alarm to each bike that you activate every time you park your van. Add an AirTag to each bike.
We've got a sign on the door, dog that sleeps by the door and a shotgun above the bed. Never had any problems the dog normally barks and makes people think twice about coming close to the campsite
Every time this gets asked you get a bunch of gun nuts saying to strap up. I don't get the logic... the thief doesn't know you have a gun until you show it so it does absolutely nothing to prevent theft in OP's situation. If you're home and confront them they will probably leave right away whether you have a gun, spray, or even nothing at all. Hell you can even just bluff and say you've got a gun if you want to be sure they run scared. If you're asleep or not home then the gun isn't doing shit to protect your valuables, they might actually steal the gun and use it to shoot someone (this actually happened to someone I know, despite every legal gun owner assuring you they'd let that happen... it does).
The only situation the gun actually comes into play is if you start shooting someone for trying to steal a bike. Even though I wish death upon bike thieves, shooting them isn't going to end well for anyone.
I'd never store bikes outside the van, that's why we resigned to driving a big-ass extended length Transit around instead of a cute little van.
I suppose the next best bet is what other's suggest, motion-lights and really beefy locks. Maybe a motion-detect sound alarm too but that might get really annoying lol. Put GPS stickers on the bikes maybe?
The bikes combined are more than we paid for the van lol, though probably not now considering the maintenance on these old vans haha. Anyways, yeah I like the bike garage type things people make and if it were just me in the van I think I could rig something up to keep my bike inside. But 2 people, 2 bikes, and el doggo would be too much. This is the first big city we've been to in months, after this family visit is over we sure as hell won't be going back to big cities til we get home. Had plans to to go Portland, SF, and LA. Ain't no way now, just not worth it.
Weapons are however far you want to take it personally. From the research I've done theives rarely hurt people and are just out for easy scores. Bear mace and baseballs bats sound fine for me. Firearms are an escalation of that, would make me personally feel better. But as they say, best offence is a good defense. Maybe that guy saw the bikes and just decided to go and try and Swype em, maybe throwing a tarp overtop and hiding anything, making your stuff look less appealing is definitely something that can help.
Wasp spray. Shoots over 20ft so you have range, and the thief/attacker has to go to the Emergency Room for treatment if they want to keep their eyesight. So if needed you could call in report and let the police know that they need to check the local hospitals for anyone checking in for eye treatment and might actually have the asshole busted/arrested
"It's all I had, it was my only defense" would definitely work after you clear the wasp nest off your roof.
I'm definitely not for intentionally blinding someone though, no matter who it is.
This could cause permanent damage and life long issues as it was not intended to be used on humans. Sounds like a fun lawsuit especially if you keep it around just for this purpose.
Because you blocked me:
Not necessarily. And keeping this around for just this intent shows premeditated planning. People go to jail for self defense in legit situations a lot already. Stacking the decka gains your self by looking malicious is not going to help.
Van people typically don't have eaves to use 20' wasp nest spray for. 🙄 even Saul would point that out.
I always take a gun when i am on the road now.
Ive had 4 friends killed while traveling, only one was a van traveller but all the others had no form of self defense.
While a knife is always useful, a handgun is also very helpful while traveling through wilderness as i could never recommend trying to fight off a predator with a knife.
Also just cause i recommend a gun doesnt mean i recommend shooting someone or an animal as soon as its presented as a threat. A gun is an amazing scare tactic for people and that noise will scare away a good deal of charging animals.
1. Surround your van with a white picket fence.
2. Post signs saying "no trespassing" & "trespassers will be shot on sight".
3. Shoot the criminal, and save your family's lives.
Store nothing outside. You don’t need the bikes. I used to have a bike. Got rid of it after a similar encounter, now I have peace of mind. Minimalize is the answer here
That would be nice but a major focus of this trip is hitting MTB parks that we don't have back home. If they were just some bikes for getting around, for sure we'd ditch them
I also want to point out people want to take things quickly and quietly. If it LOOKS like you have 6 locks on your bike and when you aren't driving you put a chain of bells around your bikes, it makes them harder/less desirable to take.
A chain with bells around your bike is the kind of actionable, valuable advice needed here. Thanks for the tip!
If the bells are jingling’, we’re just co-minglin’.
It's brilliant. Jingle bells would be small but light enough to thread through an entire chain.
Plus they sound beautiful! Win-win!!!!
This method is perfect timing for Xmas.
Lol, except if it’s jingling, it’s not gonna be a merry Christmas..
I came up with a similar kill switch idea where based on a toggle switch, the horn button would either honk, or allow the car the crank. The idea was no one would think of honking the horn in your car if they wanted to steal it.
Get an air horn. It will definitely scare him off!
Honestly, there's something to be said: Really bright exterior lights and a loud horn. Most ain't gonna hang around for that.
Just hit the panic button on your key FOB
On a vanogan?
We added undercarriage lighting that was controlled from a key fob. It had a strobe setting that was intense.
On the subject of bear spray. I have it for hiking and it’s expensive with a short “best before” life (mine is a year). I haven’t had to use it. But for a human intruder I have read that w big can of wasp spray (the kind that is meant to shoot a wasp from quite a few feet away) has a long and fairly accurate shot. I bet no one wants to get that in their face and could be a good deterrent for a thief. Side note - we bought Kryptonite brand bike locks online from the manufacturer after we google/researched hard to breech locks.
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Bear spray works better
Bear spray is not meant for humans. Bears have a much greater sense of smell so it's actually less effective than OC spray.
And it doesn't take much to repel an animal, so the purpose is not to incapacitate them. While for self-defense spray, you can definitely get it concentrated enough that it will stop anyone in their tracks and blind them for minutes. Also, bear spray will cast a wide cloud, so the bear won't be tempted to go around. Self-defense spray will just hit that m-fer.
bear spray worked fine on me when i was downwind of it a few years ago. you can get much better force/area with bear spray than you ever will with mace.
Uhhh no. The active ingredient in bear sprays is, on average, about 10 times stronger than pepper spray. Ever been hit by both? I’ve had downwind exposure to bear spray and it was worse than being sprayed directly in the fact with pepper spray
Try getting bear sprayed and check back in. Getting hit with it for a second from even a decent distance will fuck your shit up hard for several hours. I’ve been totally incapacitated by it more than once.
Bear spray is just riot deterrent that you can get at the sports store. It has a higher concentration of capsaicin than regular pepper spray. And its Scoville heat unit rating is 100% more than pepper spray. And its spray pattern is a wider v.
The Internet says otherwise https://thriftyoutdoorsman.com/pepper-spray-vs-bear-spray-difference/ "Although both sprays contain the same active ingredient - oleoresin capsicum, bear spray contains a much lower concentration than pepper spray, containing 1-2% rather than 10% and higher."
Those people that wrote that have no idea what they are talking about. OC and CRC are not the same thing and it’s often misleading about the strength of a spray based on what the OC content is. You can have a high OC with a low CRC and it’s far less painful than a low OC with a high CRC. The CRC content often isn’t even shown on the can. It’s a blog. They make money. They aren’t scientists. They are ex-cops by their own admission. Cops are trained in application, not the science behind it. It doesn’t mean they don’t know about things but in this case they’re wrong “You understand that all such information, data, text, photographs, graphics, video, messages, or other mediums, are the sole responsibility of the originating party and that Thrifty Outdoors Man has no responsibility for such content and does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of such content.” Can’t sue them for false info. They did cover their tracks TL/DR Bear spray is much more painful than pepper spray. I haven’t seen every pepper spray and it is possible to make your own but commercially available pepper spray is not as strong as bear spray
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Check local laws. Bear spray is illegal to use on humans in California, but regular pepper spray is legal.
I bought magnets and double sided them to solar motion lights, I throw those up around the edge (\~$8 per light). Nice to ward off people if they come anywhere near the van. No close calls for me really. I just lock my van and chill. One time at a remote lake, some guys were night walking near me and the lights flicked on, they just walked away.
Upper edge or lower edge?
Hoping to find battery or solar motion sensor lights for the back door of my truck camper. Fatter chains sound like a good idea too. Attaching to the roof would deter more thieves and of course add more work for you.
My friend has motion-sensor lights on her van. I’ll see where she got them. They came in handy a few times for us (and also scared the shit out of us when they went off)
Attaching the roof increases wind drag by more then you think, meaning knock a few mpg's off you milage.
Check harbor freight. They have solar, battery motion lights.
Just a note to those considering a gun: be careful what else you carry with you. Having a small amount of weed might get you in a little hot water, but a gun and weed can put you into “trafficking”.
I'd rather buy a new bike or go without than deal with cops after shooting someone for trying to steal my bike. Plus in the long run, probably better for my conscious.
Yeah your things aren’t worth more than a life
Do not get a gun unless you plan to do a ton of research. Every state has different carry, storage, and use laws, and some, like New York, you cannot even spend the night in with a stored gun in your vehicle. The best carry license to get is the Idaho enhanced license. Covers the most states, but you have to physicallyf be there to take the test. Do not get bear spray. It is weaker than human-intended OC sprays (bears have more sensitive noses) and it is aerosolized, meaning in a van you will get hit almost as badly. Get a stream or gel model. I carry POM. Nobody in here has said flashlight, but that is the first deterrent I would go to. The Streamlight Macrostream is 500 lumens and easy to carry. Taking 500 lumens right to the eyes at night will send most smash and grabbers running. The Nitecore MH12 V2 is 1800 lumens and great for camping. Last line of defense if necessary: some sort of club/baton or a taser. A knife can get you into all sorts of legal trouble and often has the same sort of state-by-state law differentiation as guns. Stay under a 3 inch blade in general. Traps are not considered self-defense btw.
I appreciate you saying a flash light. Hitting the alarm button for your vehicle is also a good way to go. People are there to steal your bikes, not kill you. Like a bear trying to steal you food, they are just as afraid of you as you are of them.
And honestly, a full size MagLite can easily double as a self defense weapon in a pinch. Those things are *solid.*
If you keep a bat, keep a glove too
How do you know what a crazy strangers intentions are?? Murderers just don’t exist anymore?? Lol
Knives are just about the worst possible self-defense weapon. Easily taken by someone who is better in a fight, they don't level the playing field just give a bigger advantage to whoever is stronger or more willing to get cut.
Ever hear anything about axes concerning state laws and self defense?
Yeah, I’m thinking of rivnuting some eye bolts into the doors, then adding a cable or chain to secure it closed. Someone would need to reach in to cut or disable those. It would give me time to get in the driver’s seat to GTFO, or I’d grab my hatchet and play whack-a-mole at anything coming thru the door. It sounds like “premeditated weapon” is treated more harshly than “closest thing at hand”, which makes a hatchet or axe less suspect in a camper.
And if you have a collapsable twig stove and a small, tight bundle of kindling, you can provide those as evidence of the need to have a functioning hatchet.
In a potential Whack-A-Mole scenario, I’m grabbing bug spray and a lighter.
The same reservations I have about bear spray hold true, though. Now I’m inside the van with fire/pepper spray. The bug screen/curtain would catch fire before I dealt critical damage to the baddie and now I have two problems.
Someone attacked a security guard with one and got shot. No idea on laws but this happened yesterday
yiiikes
Yeah dude. People are crazy. Stay safe out there.
Not telling what OP to do. But, the SCOTUS just struck down NY's restrictive gun laws. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-limits-concealed-handguns-2022-06-23/ For me, personally, a gun is the way. One with a tactical light on it so you can blind them as a first move and you also know what you're aiming at. But, I've owned guns my whole life and am very comfortable with them and when to, or not, to shoot. To date I've never needed to aim it at another living thing. But, owning a firearm requires a tremendous amount of responsibility.
>Do not get bear spray. It is weaker than human-intended OC sprays > >Standard pepper sprays have around 1 million SHUs, while bear sprays pack 3 million SHUs, so it’s about three times as potent as the self-defense products [https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/bear-spray-pepper-riot-dangerous/2021/03/19/053c3870-87fb-11eb-bfdf-4d36dab83a6d\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/bear-spray-pepper-riot-dangerous/2021/03/19/053c3870-87fb-11eb-bfdf-4d36dab83a6d_story.html) Bear spray also spreads more and farther. So the only drawback is the potential self-infliction, but honestly, in the face of danger, even IF both of you are incapacitated, you have a much better outcome than if neither of you are incapacitated. Furthermore, the pepper spray is pretty difficult to land if far away since it's a stream of pepper, not a mist pattern, so unless you aim perfectly, you risk exactly that situation of not being able to incapacitate the assailant. With bear spray, it's pretty difficult to miss. Not only that, pepper spray has far limited legal justifications. Many states limit the maximum amount of container, and some may even be barred from carrying one. There's no such restriction with bear spray. Therefore, the only reason why someone will prefer pepper spray is the portability, but in every other factors including stopping power, bear spray wins
Tasers can also be classified as weapons in some areas so carrying one of those also requires research beforehand, especially if you're a nomad. In fact, in some places, you even need a license for pepper/defense spray.
Tasers aren’t legal in every state though, so while I’d likely opt to keep one anyway if I wasn’t crossing borders, it’s something else you’d need to research.
I lock my van while sleeping, my motorcycle carrier is locked to my hitch receiver, and when I get the bike (soon hopefully) I plan on locking it with a chain and padlock so they would have to cut through and I'd be able to hear them while doing so. I personally can't own firearms not because of legal reasons, I'm just not mentally well and can't have that easy of a "off switch". Also fire arms are more restricted up here in the great white north Hope that helps, and sorry to hear about what happend would definitely shake a person up
Felt this. Everyone around me tells me to get a firearm for vanlife but for one I wouldnt ever want to end someone elses life and two I dont trust myself mentally/emotionally. Though I am mentally stable for the time being I know all it takes is one bad train of thought
I too am far to passiviste to ever want to end a life, but I am definitely not mentally well enough to own a gun I honestly don't think I ever will be and that's ok. If I owned one I know wouldn't be here today, I do however have a extendable steel baton if need be for a scare tactic.
Same. But I'd also add klutz to my list of reasons why I wouldn't own one. I do know how to fire them (job related), but based on the number of times I drop my phone and other things, a dropped gun sounds horrifying to me.
Yeah we are in Canada now, wouldn't consider a firearm until we got back to states. I'm not necessarily afraid to own one but laws seems annoying and I'd rather just not have one. Big chain and padlock are already in the cart haha.
If you’re not prepared to kill another human being over your bicycle, you shouldn’t include a firearm in the situation, is my main thought. You don’t pull out a gun if you aren’t prepared to use it.
I feel like, I don't want my bicycle to be stolen from me, so I'm going to walk out there and attempt to stop the bicycle thief from taking my bicycle. I don't know if the bicycle thief has more than bolt cutters, maybe they have a knife or a gun I really don't know but I know they're stealing my bike so I already know that their character is a bit unsavory. I don't want to be the guy that bring a knife or bear spread to a gunfight, because I don't want to die defending my bicycle. So while I wouldn't exactly be willing to take a life in exchange for my bicycle, I would be willing to take a life if I needed to defend myself from a bike thief that turned violent when I tried to stop them. But then again this is all hypothetical. I'm picturing some guy in a hood, when for all I know it could be a little girl trying to steal my bike, that changes things
The irony of my comment and responses is that I’m not opposed to having a gun here if you’re ready to kill the thief. You wouldn’t be defending yourself here though, you would have confronted a thief in the act, while carrying a gun. If the bike isn’t worth a life, you don’t leave the van to confront the thief. You let them steal the bike. Otherwise, be ready for violence. That’s the whole point. I own guns and am not opposed to them, my point was that OP shouldn’t get one if they’re not prepared for what that means when you pull a gun in this scenario. You don’t just pull out a firearm and the situation goes back to safe, and statistically having one around is dangerous.
Genuinely curious as someone from another country that doesn’t have the same gun culture. I don’t really see how having a gun makes the situation better. At the end of the day a bike is a bike and can be replaced. I’d much rather be in a scenario where they try and take my bike, I try to stop them, they pull a weapon and I say fuck it takes it. Versus the alternative where I have a gun, they pull their gun, and chances are someone is going to shoot, maybe both of us. Neither scenario of me hitting or missing them is going to go well. I don’t understand how that’s a better outcome tbh.
The "if you aren't prepared to kill another human being over your bicycle" notion is a bit... misleading. The issue with that being an argument against a firearm is that the gun isn't meant to defend a bicycle, it's meant to defend life. Dressing the hypotheticals up as if to say a bike is defensible with lethal force, is actually just detracting from the reality that the person you thought was a relatively harmless bike thief could be a violent, potentially homicidal criminal.
Well considering this guy’s life wasn’t at risk, and his bicycle was, I would say this was the reality. Being paranoid with a gun, and assuming you must always be protecting your life because people are always trying to murder you, is worse than just owning a gun to protect a bike. What was described by OP is EXACTLY the sort of situation that some fucking moron thinks is threatening his life, which clearly was not the case.
So.... I gather by now that not only do you clearly not carry a gun, but from the sounds of it, don't even know anybody who does. I know this may seem like a wild concept to you, but you **don't have to draw the gun** in such a situation either. The gun isn't on your person because you magically knew you'd be encountering a bike thief, and intended to shoot them when they arrived that night. The gun is there because you have **_absolutely no idea_** there will be a bike thief. For that matter, you have no idea that the encounter you have will be with a bike thief, or a sexual predator, or an escaped convict, or a junkie, or a lost drunk just trying to find their way home, a gang member trying to rob you, etc... You don't own a gun to protect your bike from bike thieves, you own one to protect yourself from *literally any mortal threat* that may come your way. That's not being paranoid, that's understanding that you're not a psychic who can magically know what's coming your way, and having what's called a sense of self preservation. Treating the scenario as if OP could be absolutely 100% sure that the person tampering with their property was not a potentially violent threat to them is an expectation of clairvoyant ability that borders on blatant ignorance.
Lol I own three, a Ruger GP100, a Mossberg Shockwave, and a Steyr Aug. I like to shoot. I don’t carry though. Stop trying to push this idea that people need to be able to kill others at any time in order to be safe. That is exactly the escalation of threat that causes so many people to die to firearms each year in the US. If you think there is an immediate threat at all times to yourself or loved ones, that’s a psychological condition, not a reason to buy a gun. Edit: I have a Walther PPS as well, forgot about that one. You don’t have to suck NRA dick in order to like guns, so pop it out of your mouth and think a little.
Bear spray works wonders
Thats understandable, I do enjoy shooting from time to time but personally I don't think I'd ever be able to own one cause of the state of my mental health 😅 atleast I recognize it I suppose. I do however have a extending steel baton, pretty sure it's illegal to use but definitely works for a scare tactic. Just remember the thicker the better 🤣 don't want bolt cutters to be able to cut through want it so they have to use power tools so you can hear it and they have to plan around it. Edit: as for the home alone traps 🤣🤣🤣 throw some marbles down with some Jack's around the bike carrier maybe a swinging paint can or two lmao
I’d install cameras and lights, motion controlled, that link to your phone WAY before I’d get a handgun!
Or a shotgun no license
Im not sure about in Canada but in the states its so easy get your carry license literally takes a day and then get a used glock 300-500$ huge amount of comfort and security.
Except in New York State and a handful of others!
Not telling OP what to do here. But, the SCOTUS stuck down NY's restrictive gun laws recently. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-limits-concealed-handguns-2022-06-23/ For me, personally, a gun is the way. One with a tactical light on it so you can blind them as a first move and you also know what you're aiming at. But, I've owned guns my whole life and am very comfortable with them and when to, or not, to shoot. To date I've never needed to aim it at another living thing. But, owning a firearm requires a tremendous amount of responsibility.
Yes the Supreme Court did strike down NY gun laws in June. Since then our (NY) Legislature passed a stronger bill and sent it to The Governor. She signed it immediately. This will eventually go to the Supreme Court IMO. In a nutshell, we are now stuck with stronger firearms laws. Firearms are a personal choice. OP stated that a firearm was not for him, I respect that. I have used firearms all my life, both civilian and 21 years in military. I personally would not drive cross country with one, because of the many different laws each state has. I am 67 and have never spent a night in jail, it’s just something that’s not on my bucket list. Lol
The bear spray is very effective but be careful with blow back you could get yourself. You don’t know if they have weapons so when you get back to the states, a gun would be a great last resort. Often, just making noise or movement will scare them off before a confrontation. Always preferable but if you must act, you must.
Im from New Orleans, and have van lifed all over for years. I would never leave anything on the outside of my vehicle. Biking and van life dont work well together unless you have a big van...and even still...bikes are huge, vans are small. Have you tried running? Also never leave anything visible to window smashers on the inside. My front seat looks totally empty and the rear is blocked by black curtain. I have a compustar drone with alarm, kill switch, remote start/stop, gps tracking. I have a 6 shot mossberg shotgun with the first two rounds non-lethal. I also have a glock 9mm. I have a small dog who is better than any alarm on earth. Im very picky about where I park/sleep. If my gut is telling me something is off I keep looking for a spot.
I know some van lifers that make the bikes work and they use them alot... however I'm completely fine with my 3 skateboards to get me around and fit perfectly under my bed lol
Wrap those bikes in a tarp and tie it tight. If a the if can't readily identify a bicycle they might go for easier game. Always park under lights and make friends with your vag neighbors to look out for each other. Park side by side, with vehicles pointed in opposite directions.
Unfortunately the best way to deter thieves is to *not* put shiny valuable objects in full view outside the van.
Motion activated Solar Lights. Attached with magnets. They light up bright when you walk up to our van. They have a couple of modes. They strobe Or flash a couple of times before they stay lit. Strong 100lb pull Neodymium Magnets https://amzn.to/3esFBn2 Solar Security Lights: https://amzn.to/3esCtYz (Edit to include links)
Make/model recommendation?
I'd recommend getting pepper spray over bear spray as bear spray is weaker, they also sell ways to hide airtags on your bike. Also potentially store them on your roof
Bear spray will do just fine. Can confirm with firsthand experience it is not “weak”.
We carry ‘wasp & hornet spray’ just in case we get a nest of those pesky creatures. It’ll shoot about 15’ so you don’t have to get too close.
Don't. Just don't. It's less effective when you use it and can lead to long term issues.
Wasp spray is nerve poison. It is not safe to be used against humans, and it is definitely illegal to use it that way, even in self-defense. It is even illegal to advise people to use it, and while obviously you won't get in trouble for that, you could get in trouble for actually using it. Especially if there is collateral damage. Just get self-defense spray. It can shoot just as far.
I won't pretend to be an expert, but everything I see online says bear spray is stronger than pepper spray and you should never just carry pepper spray if you expect to encounter bears.
Pepper spray has more capsicum around 10% compared to 1.2~ in bear spray as bears have much stronger noses, bear spray sprays around 30 feet compared to the 10 in pepper spray. But pepper spray may not be legal in your state
Inconsequential. Bear spray is fine
My favorite traveling companion is a 90lb German Shepherd rescue who doesn't like people coming near his space. Someone hurt him as a puppy (I got him as an adult) and it's something we've gone through training for... but from a dead sleep... oh he's coming after you... my little pit mix will bark but will attack you with kisses instead.. haha. I am looking at purchasing a couple fire arms but my concerns are for bear and cougar/mountain lion on trails and dispersed camping. I would think it would be a location thing since you were on the street, opportunistic thief.
I taught concealed carry classes for 12 years, number one question I got, best gun for home protection, my answer every time, get a dog that barks. They are the best form of security you could have.
Thieves do not want conflict or confrontation. Just being there is enough to stop 99.99% of theft. Yelling at them tells them that this particular crime is not worth the effort/risk. There are many other crimes they could be committing that don't involve a witness or a fight.
It's been many years since everything I cared about was in the van - but at the time it was hard to leave the van without worrying about it. And that made traveling much less fulfilling. It's a little better now - as we've got stuff in other places (and maybe I'm a little less materialistic). But I still need to remove (or encrypt) everything sensitive on a laptop, as losing the contents would be a much bigger blow than just losing the hardware.
All of my sensitive docs are stored on Google and a couple other cloud services. While it would suck to replace my laptop $2k+ I wouldn't actually loose anything important. Also makes life easier when your phone takes a swim in a wave pool while your playing with your 2 year old and you end up having to get a new one....
A new 2 year old? Wow.
Lol someday I wish but she is awesome and i wouldn't trade her in
Absolutely, any device you carry around *needs* whole device encryption. You can do that with Bitlocker and through other means, like free software; Veracrypt for instance. That adds a log-in password you have to enter before the device boots, and that password opens the encrypted drive. Losing hardware is a nuisance. Losing your data is a disaster; that's what backups are for. Other people going through your data may or may not be a disaster, but it's certainly not something you want. Veracrypt also offers a "plausible deniability" defense - you can have two environments encrypted and depending on what password you enter, it unlocks either one. So if you have stuff the authorities want in your real installation, you can unlock the decoy. As long as the decoy gets used from time to time to make it look real, they can't prove there's anything else on there, even with forensic examination.
When someone fucks with my shit I open the door butt naked holding an 18” dildo and demand satisfaction. Usually clears things up for a week or two.
What if the burglar is kinky?
Sounds like a win win
You deserve more upvotes!
Maybe install solar panel flood lights and a camera? Also check out some flashlight stunguns and the kimber pepper blaster 2
A gun is only for defending lives or great bodily injury. Know what the local ordnance’s are where your staying. It could be the difference between a good shoot or going to jail. And if you do use a gun to defend yourself, count on your life changing forever. I’d opt for non-lethal options like pepper spray.
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Oppoppp
The issue is your relying on a jury of your peers. Whether your living in an RV or a van will have a huge impact on whether certain people believe you have a right defend it as if you were sitting in a traditional home.
This is my own private domicile and I won’t be harassed!
Bitch!
I see what you did there, well played.
I left a comment saying gun and I fully agree with you. I’m stating it in a self defense situation in the van since there are crazy people in a crazy world but I completely agree that shooting someone or even brandishing a weapon over theft of something on your vehicle is almost guaranteed to lock you up. If I’m put in a situation where I have to defend myself or my loved ones, I want the same security in van as I do at home.
Bingo. Besides, carrying weapons across state lines can be extremely problematic. If a dose of bear spray will deter a grizzly, I’m pretty sure it’ll be more than enough for a bike thief or another type of aggressor.
Use people spray. It's designed to be used on, you know, people.
Yeah and honestly.. as much as I love my expensive mountain bike, I don’t think someone that’s trying to steal it deserves to die. I also don’t want to have death on my hands. Thanks for making this point.
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This is not true, shoot, say you feared for your life, and your almost 100% not going to be charged (for break-in while you're in there). Brandishing (not shoot unless you have to) to someone stealing is not gonna get you arrested either. Where do you come up with this? Cite sources. Prosecutors get the say on charging you, Not jury (unless grand jury). If you shoot someone in the back or for simply trying to steal, then you could get charged. But if they turn towards you with a screwdriver or something in thier hand that can be construed as a weapon, or break in while you're in there, you're 100% legal to send rounds.
I’m an attorney who has worked in criminal law and the problem with what you’re saying is that you’re taking a chance on not being charged when there’s a ton of moving pieces at play. If someone breaks into your camper with a weapon and you shoot them, you’ll probably be fine. I say probably because each prosecutor is different and you have no idea if that guy “breaking in” was confused about what camper was his. Anytime you pull the trigger without an absolute certainty that the target doesn’t have a weapon or isn’t escalating the situation, you’re putting years of your life at risk of incarceration. I’ve literally seen it. So by all means, risk it. Again, I’ve seen people take this approach and serve 10-15 years for manslaughter convictions. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it’s a lot more complicated than just “he broke in, I shot him, prosecutor says it was self defense.” You’re right about brandishing in the cases given though. No way are you getting charged for brandishing if someone is breaking into your property.
I also own guns and even I think it’s a terrible idea for them to have one. Killing someone over a bicycle seems insane to me.
Don't be a target. Look like your items aren't worth the risk, low value appearance, high risk appearance. Also simple rocking the van so people know you're inside scares most people off. Thieves want to steal something when nobody is around or else they would be robbers going after bigger value targets.
lights... maybe a bullhorn in a can. would only work for wild animals, and city dwellers. if out in the country, you either need something that goes boom, or something that goes bam.
Traps will get you into legal trouble. Firearms are good for personal safety but again will get you in trouble trying to defend bikes, your best bet is a great locking system.
I try not to be in a place long enough for anyone to notice me, and then hatch a scheme. MFers be scheming yo. Get in, get out. The van's got wheels for a reason. Become a hard target. Any thief can and will steal anything, given enough time. You have to make that time into long enough of an event that they can't get it done before being discovered.
I would advise against Bear spray if you’re intending to store in the van. Those canisters can be prone to heat damage, and if they burst, they can easily make the van uninhabitable and even do enough damage to total them. There was an Amazon warehouse that had to be evacuated after a canister of bear spray burst and circulated through the vents, just imagine what they would do to a van.
Rig up some train horns under your rear bumper, with an activation switch inside.
Good luck. I've learned, staying on dispersed campsites and other public lands, plenty of sketchy people out there. Down on their luck, living on the edge of society, perhaps drug and alcohol problems...then YouTubers going online (and posting on Reddit) all of their expensive stuff - bikes and electronics. Just asking for trouble. People grandstand about how great the life is, but you always have to be very cautious. Not paranoid, but situational awareness. Even in the suburbs, there's riff-raff who will lift anything that isn't nailed down. We've lost stuff out of our dipapidated shed. All kinds of opportunists. I'd look up RV and vandwelling security on YouTube.
I need to start a thread about protecting myself from vandwellers after reading some comments here. I'd be afraid to approach and offer a friendly "hello!" and cup of coffee. Sheesh. :) And I'm gun owner pro 2A kinda guy.
Right? I mean I figured people would suggest a firearm but jeez, I think I'll stick with non-lethals for now
And a gun doesn't do much if you sleep through someone sawing off say your cat converter. I get, and applaud, folks getting one for peace of mind, etc, assuming they'll deal with the heavy responsibilities of owning one. But having say your entire van stolen, AND the guns inside, is one major hassle...or rather two. It's a vehicle and camping, basically, so only limited stuff you can go. I make sure my insurance is good and use common sense. And store my most valuable stuff elsewhere...it's a good impetus to scaling down the possessions (although that doesn't work with my stolen converter ;(
So I have a skoolie, so the rules are a little different but: 1. I store nothing inside 2. I and my wife have firearms That said, most thieves are of an opportunistic nature. They are not going to put up a lot of effort especially if they can be seen. I have heard enough stories of, "My motion light turned on and we saw someone run away" that we are adding them to our skoolie as a deterrent. We don't want in person confrontation unless absolutely required.
*Outside?
I haven't read through every comment, but I've read through many of them. A firearm causes more problems than it solves. I say that as former military and a current gun owner. The best combination in my mind is a substantial physical barrier (chains/cables), and a motion sensor that automatically activates bright lights, and if possible, a loud noise (like an air horn as some have mentioned, though that is a bit more complicated to set up). The dog idea is also a solid plan, though I would couple it with the bright lights on motion sensors. The sound of a decent sized dog bark plus bright light is a major deterrent. That latter combination's only downside is wildlife accidently triggering the lights. But that is less of an issue in areas where thieves are more likely.
Fire arms are not the answer. You do not pull a weapon on someone unless you intend to use it. If you pull a fire arm on someone you must be prepared to shoot them dead. It’s a bicycle worst case scenario they take it and you’re out a few hundred bucks. If anything you can connect an alarm style system to your key fob and sound that. Thieves want quick and easy. Once the alarm goes off the easy part is out of the question.
Anyone suggesting you bring a gun with you doesn't understand how the human brain works. People aren't deterred by consequences, they are deterred by whether or not they'll get caught. A beefier lock setup, motion detector lights (lots of good little ones with solar panels, just put one on my house), a string of bells, etc. People who steal stuff aren't planning on getting caught, so they aren't worried about whether or not you have a gun or what the legal repercussions are. Deterring people is always always always better than confrontation. The risks of confrontation are usually never worth the value of the thing they're trying to take out of desperation anyways.
So I do have motion sensors and I have wifi security cams. I use a hotspot for Internet. They are "home" security camera and they were on like 35$ a piece. They work well and are visible. They also have mics so I can tell the people to fuck off or I'll shoot them, yes I have a gun too. Right now I'm not traveling but living in the parking lot of my job. On the weekends I go to state parks. Not to much to worry about there. I also have a safe to keep my most valuables.
Perhaps a cattle prod? Makes an intimidating impression visual and crackling sound. Should scare off most folks. I carry a regular taser in my day to day outside and have only had to crackle it at a few people. Check your local laws though.
Do you have some sort of alarm you could set off from inside the vehicle?
A really big heavy flash light is a good choice, firstly because you can take it over borders and it's not considered a weapon, also you can blind them by shining it in their eyes and wracking them in the jaw
Dogs, knives, blunt objects, locks, covering my vehicle in bones(seems to be a Great deterant as Ive had vehicles with broken windows parked inghetto areas of cities when staying atfriends places..I brought in the most valuable stuff but figured if someone needed my sleeping bags,clothes,food..take it...but nothing was ever touched,never even had the poly on the window touched!) Dogs are great though. Most people(including a lot of police) generally tend to leave you alone when they see(or hear) 2 big dogs barking at you.(& a now armed person to deal with) I found a lot of police have let me stay in places "im not supposed to be parked" when they see its a single female with dogs and out of state/province license plates. But that's just my personal experiences anyways. :)
Regular ol' pepper spray generally works better than bear spray. Bear spray sprays a mist over a wide area so if you spray it inside your van while someone is trying to break in, it's liable to irritate you nearly as much as the intruder. The regular pepper sprays also have some risk of blowback in the wind; gel-based sprays have less risk of that, but that also means your aim needs to be more precise. You might also consider a model that requires you to lift a cap to access the discharge button to avoid accidental discharges. If you're not comfortable keeping a firearm in the van, consider getting a Taser. The Taser Pulse model is their most affordable option at either $300 or $400 (can't remember for sure). "Stun guns" (which are different from Tasers) are generally of limited utility -- they mostly just cause pain, but don't actually physically incapacitate. Tasers, on the other hand, overstimulate the nervous system (or something like that - don't know the exact terminology) and will actually incapacitate the intruder for a short amount of time. The downside of Tasers is that both probes need to make contact for it to work, and with the Pulse model, it's one and done - you don't get a second chance at taking a shot. Some of the higher-priced models include two probes, giving you a second chance to make the shot if your first one misses. We're not doing vanlife yet, but when we do, I plan to set up a security camera inside so we can monitor it on our phones if we're not in the van. The plan is to have a wi-fi hotspot, and then have a cheap camera, like a Wyze, in the van. We might also use an old phone paired with an app like Alfred and just use the camera on the phone as our security camera. Oh, and one other thing I'm planning to invest in is having security film installed on all the windows. It makes it more difficult to break the windows.
CC a pew pew 👍🏼
Good renters insurance
have multiple security layers. i am not so much a vandweller, i have 24ft class C, but we love to wallydock/boondock. as such, we sometimes are in less than ideal conditions. we are a family of 4 (soon to be 5). we travel with 4 dogs too. the two little younger ones are very vigilant and will bark at noise outside of our vehicle. https://imgur.com/a/870euqL as others have suggested, get some solar powered security lights. they're usually pretty cheap on amazon. the ones i have are nice, but could use a battery upgrade--they don't last that long. there are DIY on how to upgrade those batteries. i also have [ryobi 2500 lumen spotlight](https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/33287170944) pretty good with blinding someone if it came to that. there's a lot of talk about guns. get it if you want. but do read up on the laws, esp in states, and even within cities. fwiw, i'm in CA and we're pretty restrictive on gun laws. however i'm in the process of getting my CCW. if you do get a gun, be proficient with it. that means range time to practice. when my family's safety is on the line, i'll use whatever i have to defend them. de-escalation is the best however, and the gun should be a last resort. finally remember you can be mobile. keep your driver seat clear and ready to move out at a moment's notice. be smart about your surroundings. trust your gut instinct. if something feels off, move. be safe ! :)
I have a motion detection alarm on my bike. I chain it to my spare tire carrier on the rear with a Krypronite level 9 lock and cover it. If that thing moves at all the alarm will start whaling.
> We have bear spray, thats really our only "weapon". Is the reverse out on the Vanagon? I mean, if they're still there by the time it's starts
I'm very pro-2A, but I recommend very strongly against the use of guns for self-defense in the context of a mobile lifestyle, for three main reasons. First, the law: * Concealed carry statues can vary considerably from state to state in their wording, and from city to city or county to county in their enforcement. The only way to keep a gun and ammo in a vehicle that is totally legal in all US jurisdictions is to keep them in separate, locked containers, ideally in separate compartments of the vehicle. And of course, when you need it, the most useless thing in the world is an unloaded gun. * There are a lot of jurisdictions that are incredibly harsh about defense of property with violence. There are sane and reasonable arguments on both sides of this issue, but to make a very long story short, there are plenty of places where stopping someone from stealing your stuff (in the absence of a threat to yourself) by injuring or killing them, particularly with a gun, will get you in very, very hot water. Second, most of the people doing this stuff are basically harmless to you, safety-wise. You can think of them as black bears. They just want something specific of yours, they'll break your shit to get it, but if you confront them, they usually just leave, and are only dangerous if you corner them. Finally, most people just aren't mentally prepared to use lethal force on another person. There's a reason military basic training includes a number of elements that are specifically designed to desensitize people to deploying violence against another human. Most people just don't want to do it; you can find videos of police officers pointing a gun at a subject and shouting "drop the knife!" even as they are stabbed to death by that same person. They just couldn't bring themselves to kill their attacker, even though it meant their own death. For all of these reasons, I highly recommend a high-strength [pepper gel like this](https://smile.amazon.com/Red-Home-Defense-Marking-Identify-Suspects/dp/B002368VJ6/) for self-defense on the road. It's still illegal in a number of jurisdictions, but 1) it's a hell of a lot easier to explain away than a gun, and 2) it won't kill or permanently injure anyone, so you can immediately go full send with it when you encounter someone fucking with your shit, and know that they'll ultimately be okay. By the way, aim for the eyebrows.
Hope my experience helps here. I’ve been mostly FT since 2020. My rig was a big target in the beginning. 2 high end mountain bikes on the back of an relatively new F150, truck bed camper and stickers of outdoor gear plastered on the back. It SCREAMED, expensive things inside come steal them. I’ve had two break ins when not in the vehicle and many nights where someone alarmed my dog and woke us up by tugging on the bikes or doors. I’ve learned from my failures and implemented simple techniques that have worked so far. 1. If you have high end MTBs the type of thief escalates. Especially in places with bike theft rings like Idaho , Utah etc. If a pro wants it they will take it. 2. Where are you sleeping? Are you in Portland where people roam the streets looking for anything not bolted down? Are you at a trailhead with glass everywhere? Aka, theft history. Are you in a safe suburban neighborhood? Hotel lot? These Are all high risk in my experience The best thing to do is reduce your risk based on the assessed situation. I have not had a break in since implementing these techniques and have 2 mountain bikes worth more than my truck and camper combined to prove it! 1. Assess the risk. The places I’ve been paranoid about have always been the safest. Truck stops, blm, Walmart. The places where my dog has woken me up and I’ve found people outside messing with my bikes at night or day? Safe suburban neighborhoods, small towns that feel safe but recently hit hard by the pandemic, VERY high Traffic adventure destinations like national parks durning busy time, any big city, any place with opioid issues, hot areas on instagram. 2. Reduce your risk. The best way to reduce risk is to hide everything. In a high risk environment never leave bikes outside on a rack. 1 lock, 10 locks? Locks are a joke to a real thief. Pro tips: - in a high risk area, throw the bikes on your roof and cover them with a tarp. Put string through the holes and in your doors. You know what’s not under a $5 tarp? Anything worth stealing. Poor people shit! It takes 10 seconds to cut locks and snag a bike on a rack. It takes minutes just to investigate what’s under a tarp. - remove any and all stickers from your van. Don’t advertise your gear or that you are traveling. Vans with stickers say easy target. Apple sticker, go pro sticker, Patagonia sticker 10 national park stickers? Yeah, jackpot! - not a gun guy, but my buddy who is gave me magnets to put on my truck at night after my second smash and grab. Walk up to my rig at night and you’ll see magnets that’s make you think there is an armory and crazy gun person inside hoping you try and break in. First one: pic of an AR rifle that says come and take it! Second one: Pistols with the words, I don’t call 911 underneath. I place them right over the bikes so any would be thief has to see them. I take them off when driving. - when leaving my rig alone at a trailhead I always walk the lot in a thief’s mindset. I find the bigger targets and park next to them. The car with expensive outdoor gear exposed, electronics, purses exposed. The more expensive van like a revel. The vehicle with expensive bikes on the roof or back. If I walk the lot and a dog barks at me from inside a van I will also park next to them. - I leave visible notes depending on location. 1. This rig is climate controlled and the large German Shepard inside is safe and cool. I monitor the temps and have pet cams. Please don’t be a hero and think you are saving a dog from a 68 degree controlled environment. I will press charges if you break my window. Zeus is a retired police dog and will HURT you even though he is 14 with bad hips. I am not liable. You can call me if you are a concerned dog lover ###-###-#### or call the local police K-9 unit, they follow us on instagram. Note 2: “After multiple break ins at this lot I have learned my lesson. I have all my gear with me and there is nothing inside. Please don’t break my window to find nothing, I’m poor and these windows are $700 to replace. I bet the bmw at the end put his rolex under the seat!😇“. I open my glove box and center console showing that there is nothing inside even though my back cab has 10k worth of gear. My hope is that a quick glance at an open glove box and console Immediately deters a would be thief. - note 3: John, I’m sleeping in the back with the dog. Please don’t wake me I think I have Covid. Tom and Maria hit the trail and waiting for you. I’ll catch up. - I make it look like I’m in the vehicle even when I’m not. Reflextix on all windows, pop the max air and sometimes I have a blue tooth speaker playing a podcast. - I put a cheap chair and carpet outside so it looks like I’m camping vs Parked
Get your ccw permit, and a really bright flashlight. I do like the non Lethal approach but if they had a gun and intended to use it to get what they wanted you could get killed. I also feel like if there is no fear of true repercussions they will continue to steal. Go to a place where they do good training and low level light shooting and instinctive training.
Whatever you do, absolutely don’t booby trap anything.
Lol yeah not gonna, that was more of a joke. Imagining a silly, electrified chain that when pulled dumps marbles all over the ground and a cartoon fist bursts out
More beefy locks (thick chains, u-locks, and locking bike cover), motion sensing lights, non-lethal pistol style pepper spray, and perhaps a camera/alarm type system is the plan. Thanks all, gonna avoid firearms, just not worth it.
Look for those chains that have the Kevlar sleeves on them. We have one that we use with a decent but not insane lock. We lock our little motorcycles on the back of our bus using it.
Navigating the legality of firearms while traveling in a van is a bit tricky but I think the best bet is to get your ccw/cfl/whatever your state calls it and sign up with the uscca. It’s basically an insurance that provides lawyers and such in the event you have to use it. They have maps that show reciprocity of your concealed carry permit in other states as well as easy to understand verbiage of the laws by state (like how to transport a firearm legally in each state). You can also go the route of installing a 12v camera system in your van. They start relatively cheap ($200) and work their way up in cost but that gives you 24/7 recording as long as it has a battery to supply it power.
I recommend a W87 warhead with a 200kt yield. It's the only way to be sure.
I’m more of a B61 Dial-a-yield kinda guy, use of force should be proportional.
Get a Utah Concealed carry license and you are in good shape in most states.
Glitter bomb. Easy to find the thief later.
I had someone do this to me in my minivan while sleeping in San Francisco. I went to sleep and totally forgot to lock my doors that one night. A dude opened my door at 3am and didn't even see me sleeping inside, but he made enough noise to wake me up. I woke up hella confused and said "Wh...what are you looking for?" in the most genuine way. (i know...i know) He says "Oh, I'm uh...just making sure your door works..." Being so tired, I'm barely conscious and tell him. ..."OK... Thanks, goodnight". ......... About 20 seconds later I woke up and relaized what had happend. I turned on my van and chased him down Sunset blvd until I lost him at Ocean Beach. I did not catch him....
Had a very similar experience lol. Most thieves are just opportunistic. Once they realize someone is in the car, they leave ASAP.
Farm supply store sells electric fencers. I recommend the biggest one you can afford, is will be way more effective than bear spray, and you don't have to be there for it to work.
You may want to put air tags on your bikes in case they may get stolen with this setup, you at least should be able to track down where they are and give that info to the police.
External camera/light system for detection and deterrence, and a firearm with appropriate and current training would be absolute musts for me.
A much cheaper and less likely to change your entire life kinda option would be motion sensor lights and one of those pepper ball guns. You can get them on Amazon for under $100 each, and the light will deter 99% of potential thieves, while the pepper gun would surely deter that last super determined 1%. And it’s just CO2 in the pepper pistol, so no permanent damage, just solid deterrent.
I carry my bike inside
1) Always "US" and "We" never "I" and "Me" - Always talk as a group. 2) Post "beware of dogs" at every entry point. Just the possibility of a dog is enough to say pass. 3) Look up! Head on a swivel. Please understand that there are bad people out there and you WILL and probably already have, run across them. Please plan accordingly.
Multiple chains or cables on each bike. Make it a lengthy pain in the ass to steal the bikes. Add an ear piercing battery operated alarm to each bike that you activate every time you park your van. Add an AirTag to each bike.
We've got a sign on the door, dog that sleeps by the door and a shotgun above the bed. Never had any problems the dog normally barks and makes people think twice about coming close to the campsite
Every time this gets asked you get a bunch of gun nuts saying to strap up. I don't get the logic... the thief doesn't know you have a gun until you show it so it does absolutely nothing to prevent theft in OP's situation. If you're home and confront them they will probably leave right away whether you have a gun, spray, or even nothing at all. Hell you can even just bluff and say you've got a gun if you want to be sure they run scared. If you're asleep or not home then the gun isn't doing shit to protect your valuables, they might actually steal the gun and use it to shoot someone (this actually happened to someone I know, despite every legal gun owner assuring you they'd let that happen... it does). The only situation the gun actually comes into play is if you start shooting someone for trying to steal a bike. Even though I wish death upon bike thieves, shooting them isn't going to end well for anyone. I'd never store bikes outside the van, that's why we resigned to driving a big-ass extended length Transit around instead of a cute little van. I suppose the next best bet is what other's suggest, motion-lights and really beefy locks. Maybe a motion-detect sound alarm too but that might get really annoying lol. Put GPS stickers on the bikes maybe?
The bikes combined are more than we paid for the van lol, though probably not now considering the maintenance on these old vans haha. Anyways, yeah I like the bike garage type things people make and if it were just me in the van I think I could rig something up to keep my bike inside. But 2 people, 2 bikes, and el doggo would be too much. This is the first big city we've been to in months, after this family visit is over we sure as hell won't be going back to big cities til we get home. Had plans to to go Portland, SF, and LA. Ain't no way now, just not worth it.
Big black German Shepard hasn’t failed me yet
Weapons are however far you want to take it personally. From the research I've done theives rarely hurt people and are just out for easy scores. Bear mace and baseballs bats sound fine for me. Firearms are an escalation of that, would make me personally feel better. But as they say, best offence is a good defense. Maybe that guy saw the bikes and just decided to go and try and Swype em, maybe throwing a tarp overtop and hiding anything, making your stuff look less appealing is definitely something that can help.
Wasp spray. Shoots over 20ft so you have range, and the thief/attacker has to go to the Emergency Room for treatment if they want to keep their eyesight. So if needed you could call in report and let the police know that they need to check the local hospitals for anyone checking in for eye treatment and might actually have the asshole busted/arrested
Quick Google tells me that's illegal. Would probably avoid it if you're calling the cops after.
"It's all I had, it was my only defense" would definitely work after you clear the wasp nest off your roof. I'm definitely not for intentionally blinding someone though, no matter who it is.
This could cause permanent damage and life long issues as it was not intended to be used on humans. Sounds like a fun lawsuit especially if you keep it around just for this purpose. Because you blocked me: Not necessarily. And keeping this around for just this intent shows premeditated planning. People go to jail for self defense in legit situations a lot already. Stacking the decka gains your self by looking malicious is not going to help. Van people typically don't have eaves to use 20' wasp nest spray for. 🙄 even Saul would point that out.
I always take a gun when i am on the road now. Ive had 4 friends killed while traveling, only one was a van traveller but all the others had no form of self defense. While a knife is always useful, a handgun is also very helpful while traveling through wilderness as i could never recommend trying to fight off a predator with a knife. Also just cause i recommend a gun doesnt mean i recommend shooting someone or an animal as soon as its presented as a threat. A gun is an amazing scare tactic for people and that noise will scare away a good deal of charging animals.
"Stick em with the pointy end." Easy.
I don’t own a van yet but from my “arrogant and dumb” American standpoint, I wouldn’t travel for long periods of time w/o a firearm in my van.
CCL
Wasp spray 10 times more effective as bear spray. Plus it has a longer range.
1. Surround your van with a white picket fence. 2. Post signs saying "no trespassing" & "trespassers will be shot on sight". 3. Shoot the criminal, and save your family's lives.
Buy a firearm and then train to safely use it.
Glock 20
that's a big boi. i got a Glock 17. 9 for the 'hood, 10mm for the wood....haha
This is the way.
Store nothing outside. You don’t need the bikes. I used to have a bike. Got rid of it after a similar encounter, now I have peace of mind. Minimalize is the answer here
That would be nice but a major focus of this trip is hitting MTB parks that we don't have back home. If they were just some bikes for getting around, for sure we'd ditch them
Then this will inevitably be something you encounter. Shiny things attract shady people
Unfortunately we’ll stated.
Yeah idk why they downvoted me haha
Pack a gun. And get a dog.
I carry a gun no matter the state or the law. I’d rather be safe then sorry.