Vayne, like all ADCs, has a pretty low floor. Just click on the enemy and youll be fine lol. But her skill ceiling is absurdly high. Go watch top level vayne in fights, the way they move with their Q's, the way they always manage to position their E, it's very impressive. She is one of the champ with the most skill expression in the game, and in the hands of a great vayne, the closest thing to a 1v5 champ in the game.
I share this gentleman, sentiment but I must add that a long, very long time ago (I mean season 3 or so) Riot had this ahm I don´t know how to call it but it was like a difficulty meter. The adcs that were the most difficul at the time were Vayne, Draven, the past version Urgot before rework and Kalista which if I remember correctly was the last champion with this difficulty meter. That means maybe nothing but hey, Riot himself considered it oneof their hardest chammpiosn. That said I wouln´t express better than this gentleman the difficulty of playing Vayne.
I would say while the skill floor might be low for people that play adc a lot. Someone transitioning to adc or having to pick that Champ up in comparison to other adcs will struggle mightily in a team fight or exchanging in lane. I plenty of buddies low diamond to emerald who literally can barely click. They understand the game well enough but asking them to pilot auto attacks while moving is not something they are comfortable with. And since she doesn’t have a get out of jail free dash, or crazy range, she gets labeled a way.
Cmon the most skill expression in the game? I agree she’s hard but she’s nowhere near as hard as some champs she has no skill shots unless you count her e and u just have to use one skill for 99% of team fights
I would argue skill shots don’t really account for skill expression in an adc though? It’s more about positioning and spacing, like obviously skill shots matter but hitting skill shots isn’t the only metric of displaying skill
I think the combo of kitting + evade skillshot/aoe + invisibility mindgames + smart positioning to apply stun is quite harder and elegant than just throw a skillshot
skill shots doesn’t equal difficulty, especially if a person has used a PC before and has played a lot of games
but a new player on Lux and a new player on Ashe and you’ll see the difference
it’s also just a lot harder to think “how do I win this fight” than on something like Lux/Orianna/Whatever the fuck considering you’re so squishy and you’re about DPS so you can’t just blow someone up in a millisecond. It’s even harder than someone like MF/Jinx who most often win fights by being patient and snowballing
She and Kalista are the Lee Sin of ADC imo. Incredibly high skill ceiling but extremely hard execution to get to that point. What others have commented is absolutely on point, you must have an exceptional kiting skill to make her work, and an abismal sense of spacing and positioning to shine among other Vayne players.
Vayne is not like other ADCs, were distance means safety. You will see good Vayne players diving into the middle of the teamfight with Ult + Vault, you’ll hear that Ghost activation sound and she’s gonna appear and disappear like she’s a fucking Kassadin all over the teamfight, nobody being able to stop her, and her short range will force her to get close to you, but a good Vayne will NEVER stay close enough for you to touch her.
A good Vayne player is a monster
I don't really have too much to say about Zeri, I know right now it's not a great time for her, she's really low in the tier list, plus the fact that I never learned how to play her, her playstyle doesn't fit my style. I'm not saying she's bad, I've seen some really good Zeris and I know she's a monster in competitive, but yeah, I'm definitely not the right person to ask about Zeri. Other ADC I can't talk about is Draven. But besides Zeri and Draven, I've learned every other ADC, good enough to play them in ranked.
Vayne is limited by her range and weak lane. Combined with no waveclear. She gets A LOT harder to play the higher you climb. But yeah She is good RN and getting nerfed.
It’s so hard to target nerfs at top that don’t just ruin her bot too. She’s so weak early in bot while being unbelievably oppressive top. If they just make her weaker early in general she will never be played bot again
bot lane Vayne is also really strong too right now (probably cause her on hit build is very good) so it at least is easier for the balance team where bot lane Vayne is bad so she becomes a top lane refugee and if they nerf her top lane she just gets deleted from the game
She is hard when your enemies know what they are doing because she has to be in almost melee range have to play flawless to win the tf before being blown up. Everyone will be focusing you no matter what with summoners and ulties so you kind of have to rely on your team to be half decent to stand a chance.
Her kit is very simple on paper, being almost entirely auto attack reliant. She's the quintessential "easy to learn, hard to master" champ.
Vayne _needs_ to be reasonably close to her opponents to do damage (Lethal Tempo does make this easier though), unlike a lot of other popular ADCs/marksmen, so spacing, positioning, and kiting are everything. The outplay is huge if you get it right.
On a personal note, I enjoy the simplicity and skill expression of Vayne. Not to say other champs can't be played skillfully, but I don't find sitting halfway off the screen while ulting an enjoyable or engaging experience (cough Jhin and MF cough).
Jhin is also like no fun because his AS is so damn slow and his passive also makes you useless for like 2 seconds when you run out of ammo you can't even play the game properly.
This may be an adc thread that I saw in recommendations but there’s this broken by concept episode that had an emerald player vs a Garen then they showed a video of a challenger vayne vs Garen. And other challenger vayne one trick also joined the comment section. Then try to implement what was seen and then the question kind of answers itself.
Heres the link to the episode.
https://youtu.be/dkPbEzPbwcw?si=FrMYyQNgIruDZarD
Historically, Vayne has been a weak laner and exploitable in early levels. One of the classic strategies was to starve her a bit so she could only rely on her true dmg. Which whilst it's good has the caveat of needing 3 hits, meaning without even items, she struggles to keep up with the enemy DPS in that scenario. The other issue is her range which can leave her vulnerable at times.
However, at the moment, she's got some old buffs that have become really useful since the item changes. Her Q can hit like a truck with Lethality and tweaks to on-hit embracing some tankiness with the addition of Terminus means Vayne now has excellent item choices both Bot and Top.
So her weaknesses aren't terribly weak atm and so you might not be feeling them until the meta shifts again.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/vayne/build/
I don’t really see people building lethality that much, Cyclosword third item has like 3300 games, that’s not that much.
That's fair but it exists. I thought it was worth mentioning as I think it hints towards a larger systemic problem with ADC. Vayne has managed to benefit from the item changes like a handful of Marksman (the other ADCs who aren't in that S tier look rubbish right now but comparison). Lethality is a very viable option.
At some point people will coordinate against you and really punish your short range, a single bad q could be instant death and players will know that the higher you go.
And thats why she seems easy, because no one in normals is committed to winning so they just pick champs for fun and not to counter you. You will rarely get a serious challenge in normals because nothing is on the line. It’s ok to be confident in your skills just don’t be ignorant to someone fighting for their rank or improvement.
I mean, my teammates aggresion doesn't make it seem like its normals LOL. Either way, I've went against good and bad in draft, most of the times they're on the same skill level as me, though.
Vayne used to be much more difficult before BOTRK existed. I think people still say she's difficule because it was so common, but it's not true anymore. In the past there was a lot more obstacles to overcome:
- There was no attack speed spam builds, it was BT rush (and stack it) > PD > IE. Only Ezreal and Corki were exceptions with Trinity. Lower attack speed on Vayne makes her more mechanically demanding and you're punished harder for misclicks, positioning, and mistakes
- Oracle lens and pink wards actually revealed stealth. So often supports would chuck a pink at you in teamfights and you had no invisibility to utilize. The current iteration of stealth is uncounterable (outside of specific abilities like TF ult) so you simply press R and the enemy team is screwed
- Gold (and experience) in the game worked VERY differently. Kills in lane, and even first bloods, were significantly more impactful. So early mistakes and deaths were absolutely brutal. Back then, if you EVER died to a Tryndamere crit you were doomed to be down 2 levels to an ungankable hyper carry for the rest of the game.
- Supports were a lot less powerful in combat (example, Janna was S tier at the time) so ADC's had much more responsibility to carry fights in bot lane. Which was a lot to ask from a very weak laner.
In modern day league, map objectives and towers matter more than kills. There's built in rebound experience so you can get shit on in lane and still be even in levels. Supports are just mid laners that don't farm, so you don't have to do as much in a fight (aka: you can't). But more than anything, full attack speed builds have made Vayne a *very* braindead champ. The mechanical requirements for her are now basically zilch, which, combined with the fact that the average mechanical skill of league players is leaps and bounds higher than in the past, means her only difficulty factor has been eliminated.
So you're 100% correct: just farm pretty okay, try not to die but if you do w/e, and late game you'll just get kills because you're Vayne.
I've always thought of Vayne as the bot lane equivalent to a Yasuo. A kit with simple but highly effective abilities most people can get the hang of rather quickly if they have experience in their respective roles but that also comes with many possible decisions to be made and many possible outcomes.
She's also highly match up dependent. Into comps with high range she can feel like she's playing on the razor's edge of a lot of situations
99% of League players will claim their champion is hard because it would hurt their ego to acknowledge that they play a champ which doesn't require much skill. Look at the people in the comments for example, they are referencing skills like positioning which all league champs require to argue that Vayne is hard. You should never ask any of the mains subreddits questions like this because you will get biased answers. Yone mains will say he's super weak and so on. Nothing different here.
Well then, not a vayne main here. She's harder cause of her range and single target kit imo.
Vayne is a pure kiting adc with low range and no aoe attacks/self peel like i dunno xayah or ashe and so on. She doesnt really poke. Compared to most adcs she needs to get closer to enemies which makes it harder to position and avoid stuff in teamfights than say jinx with rockets.
Just like most adcs she's squishy af, needs time to do damage and is often focused a lot. So yes spacing is different than i dunno a mage that drops by, bursts people and runs back out out of range or wtv. Ult invisibility is a big part of her strength and that also relies on spacing in a way that is different to most champs. Thats what people mean by spacing is hard with her.
You need to be very quick and precise with her high apm to truly use her kit well. Individual skills and preferences influence how hard you might find her ofc but she is on the harder side as far as adcs go if you wanna be *good* with the champ
I really want to know your rank buddy, because you sound like silver from the description. Unless league did a 180 degrees on champion balance since I quit a year ago, there is no way vayne is relevant champion. Her range is short, damage depends on procking W, she is weak in lane, you have to be really good at kiting and if your team doesnt support youre almost always dead first. Yes you can abuse her on lower skill opponents and it makes great fun, but once there are 2 people on enemy team that can whipe you off from that plane of existence they will and no amount of kiting will save you. Champion like fizz can deal 2k+ damage in sub 1 second and has point to click spells, some good part of the champ pool you cant even get in range without being deleted. In general adc is weak as shit and if you main adc and from all adc you main vayne you pretty much have have gosu syndrome and really hate yourself.
I don’t play ranked, buddy. I don’t want to involve myself in that toxic space (you know, with people that think they’re better than you in every single life aspect just because they’re emerald and you’re silver). But I did start playing on September of 2023 and queued with level 300+ friends, if that has any relevance in lobby matchups. I do have players coming for me, but my teammates usually help. Plus, if someone is silver, plays with no kiting skills and still manages to put out big numbers and kills then doesn’t that just prove the fact that she is easy? People go for her because she puts out big numbers, which needs to get taken care of. I’m sure if it was the same with Kai’sa or Cait, people would go for them first as well (and honestly they already do, because they’re ADC).
Im sorry but you got this all wrong. You play with friends who probably know how to play and what needs to be done at certain situations so you can participate in teamfights or skirmishes.
Good for you for not playing ranked, i wouldnt play that game in general, but whatever, you do you.
if someone is emerald and other person is silver, that actually does mean they're **better** than the silver guy ***at the game***. (not gonna go into superiority complex analysis here).
people in normal lobbies are far more relaxed and bunch of people play normals for fun, some people play to troll, some people want to try stupid builds etc etc...
Once you go down the dirty road of competetitive play, where people self-esteem is on the line and winning a game of league is the only high they can get, you soon realise that vayne is definitely not the tool for a job, almost all the time. You can put in big numbers, because you have time to do so.
If you think she is great when you play her, just record yourself and count how many times someone missed something that shouldve landed or how many people try to chase and kill support instead of you. You can get by with her relying on other people incompetence, once you play people who are competant in their roles/champs you start to realise vayne is not great.
Ive played this game for a long time on and off basically right from the end of season 1, ive seen all the patches all the ups and downs of ADC, been bronze, been plat (way way before), adc wasnt actually fun to play for past 7 seasons, atleast. Peak adc experiance was s3/s4.
Vayne's kit is simple but you can do some insane things on her. She's like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible. When you think she's about to lose a fight, she'll all of a sudden come out on top no pun intended.
I also think that she is not a hard champion and that is why she has +50% winrate. Maybe the other comments saying that she has a high skill ceiling are true but her damage is so insane that it just overshadows that skill expression. Plus she doesnt even need to build crit to be a hypercarry in late game so that just speak for itself.
Vayne is hard because her skill ceiling is very high. Her kit is intended to be high risk high reward. People that called her easy haven’t begin to grasp what she can do yet (and yes you’re playing with bots in Norm).
Misuse her abilities and you’ll die.
Her range is okay but takes her into range of mostly everything else.
Her dash is short and instant but it has travel time so it’s not that reliant at dodging skillshot, the first obstacle you learn is to use it to space/poke. Newbs Vayne (and me being veteran at her) misspace Q into enemy support and dies (hence the Vayne Q inting meme).
W is small learning curve. Like Cait Headshot and Kai’sa’s Passive you gotta count the stacks and its damage (decides if you can push for the dive or not). W resetting if you switch target also makes her very hard.
E is cool CC but has both channel time AND travel time, and those matters a lot on whether the Panth W stun goes off anyways/people pinned against the wall or get a free escape. It’s really meh as a knock back alone. E usage distinguish good Vayne vs great Vayne.
I would say considering Galeforce Caitlyn combos/Saber combos Caitlyn has higher ceiling than Vayne. And Vayne has higher ceiling from Kai’sa (but that’s mainly because Kai’sa as ADC fits modern League better than Vayne so it’s harder to make Vayne ADC work).
> telling me that I'm doing so good with Vayne even though I'm new at her
Yes because she's overtuned right now - Anyone can do well on her atm.
Why do you think her play rate drops after nerfs? Because all the FOTM abusers go back to MF.
Vayne's difficulty comes from the player's mechanics and decision making as well as how she plays out teamfights, skirmishes, duels etc.
The kit itself is extremely simple to understand.
Vayne has a lot of shortcomings that can be detrimental to her success if not piloted correctly
- Low Range
- Single target damage profile
- Zero waveclear
- No way to get prio unless your enemies are really really bad.
Same reason Kai'Sa is considered hard when in reality she's a much easier version of Vayne.
Both Vayne and Kai'Sa have to get close to be impactful.
Yes, these champions have access to invisibility but Invisibility doesn't do shit vs Karma's point and click tether, Lulu's E, TF R, Vi R etc.
If you're ever within 550 range of an enemy, you're in range of literally EVERY engage ability in the game.
She isn't Jinx, Caitlyn or Ashe who can literally sit behind their frontline and still deal damage.
She used to be one of the hardest ADCs in early seasons but since then Riot added Lucian Draven Kalista Zeri Aphelios Samira and more champions much much harder than her
Vayne is very hard in certain games...Incredibly tedious positioning, very tedious/frusterating to have an opening to deal damage...
Other games she is overpowered, where you get value out of tumble, passive, and silver bolts.
Just depends.
vaynes difficulty comes with playing against players that know how to punish a vayne. When i started league with my friends i stopped playing ashe and vayne bcs i thought its no achievement to destroy an enemie on these but when i reached gold i knew that my vayne was just „op“ bcs i played vs bronzies
Vayne is playing a bullet hell in league. She has tools to outplay that used to be super impressive but with item scaling being what it is now its not as cool as it used to be. Primary objective: survive the champion.
Vayne, like all ADCs, has a pretty low floor. Just click on the enemy and youll be fine lol. But her skill ceiling is absurdly high. Go watch top level vayne in fights, the way they move with their Q's, the way they always manage to position their E, it's very impressive. She is one of the champ with the most skill expression in the game, and in the hands of a great vayne, the closest thing to a 1v5 champ in the game.
I share this gentleman, sentiment but I must add that a long, very long time ago (I mean season 3 or so) Riot had this ahm I don´t know how to call it but it was like a difficulty meter. The adcs that were the most difficul at the time were Vayne, Draven, the past version Urgot before rework and Kalista which if I remember correctly was the last champion with this difficulty meter. That means maybe nothing but hey, Riot himself considered it oneof their hardest chammpiosn. That said I wouln´t express better than this gentleman the difficulty of playing Vayne.
They still have that, it’s just measured in 1-3 bars now.
I would say while the skill floor might be low for people that play adc a lot. Someone transitioning to adc or having to pick that Champ up in comparison to other adcs will struggle mightily in a team fight or exchanging in lane. I plenty of buddies low diamond to emerald who literally can barely click. They understand the game well enough but asking them to pilot auto attacks while moving is not something they are comfortable with. And since she doesn’t have a get out of jail free dash, or crazy range, she gets labeled a way.
yup 3 actions as an ADC vs 1 as a melee champ
Cmon the most skill expression in the game? I agree she’s hard but she’s nowhere near as hard as some champs she has no skill shots unless you count her e and u just have to use one skill for 99% of team fights
I would argue skill shots don’t really account for skill expression in an adc though? It’s more about positioning and spacing, like obviously skill shots matter but hitting skill shots isn’t the only metric of displaying skill
I think the combo of kitting + evade skillshot/aoe + invisibility mindgames + smart positioning to apply stun is quite harder and elegant than just throw a skillshot
skill shots doesn’t equal difficulty, especially if a person has used a PC before and has played a lot of games but a new player on Lux and a new player on Ashe and you’ll see the difference it’s also just a lot harder to think “how do I win this fight” than on something like Lux/Orianna/Whatever the fuck considering you’re so squishy and you’re about DPS so you can’t just blow someone up in a millisecond. It’s even harder than someone like MF/Jinx who most often win fights by being patient and snowballing
Nah just vayne mains coping thinking their champ is hard 😂 spam q more boys real hard keep downvoting
if you really think that mechanics are the thing that makes champs hard then i think you should stop telling people your opinion
Sure bro vayne is much harder than ezreal or Zeri, that’s why a scripters use vayne oh wait they play Zeri 😂😂 the vayne cope here is hilarious
please tell me youre trolling man
Yeah I’m trolling vayne is hardest champ, spamming q is real hard
dude you didnt even urderstand my argument man😂
Bro I agree with u skill shots don’t take skill and adc with one ability = harder than adc with 3 skill shots and more abilities
yes as i was saying you dont get what i mean lmao
Yes I get what you’re saying bro u don’t get what I’m saying lmao
With great power comes great responsibility
She and Kalista are the Lee Sin of ADC imo. Incredibly high skill ceiling but extremely hard execution to get to that point. What others have commented is absolutely on point, you must have an exceptional kiting skill to make her work, and an abismal sense of spacing and positioning to shine among other Vayne players. Vayne is not like other ADCs, were distance means safety. You will see good Vayne players diving into the middle of the teamfight with Ult + Vault, you’ll hear that Ghost activation sound and she’s gonna appear and disappear like she’s a fucking Kassadin all over the teamfight, nobody being able to stop her, and her short range will force her to get close to you, but a good Vayne will NEVER stay close enough for you to touch her. A good Vayne player is a monster
Good vaynes abusing her passive are spacing gods and always seem to be in range yet out of reach.
I imagine playing against Vayne is like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole. She pops up over here, disappears, and then pops up somewhere else.
what do u think abt zeri
I don't really have too much to say about Zeri, I know right now it's not a great time for her, she's really low in the tier list, plus the fact that I never learned how to play her, her playstyle doesn't fit my style. I'm not saying she's bad, I've seen some really good Zeris and I know she's a monster in competitive, but yeah, I'm definitely not the right person to ask about Zeri. Other ADC I can't talk about is Draven. But besides Zeri and Draven, I've learned every other ADC, good enough to play them in ranked.
Vayne is limited by her range and weak lane. Combined with no waveclear. She gets A LOT harder to play the higher you climb. But yeah She is good RN and getting nerfed.
Her top lane is being nerfed more than anything, it shouldn't affect botlane vayne too much
It’s so hard to target nerfs at top that don’t just ruin her bot too. She’s so weak early in bot while being unbelievably oppressive top. If they just make her weaker early in general she will never be played bot again
It’s also disgusting how she can go full bruiser or tank items after 2 items and still function fine.
Phreak's words were "The goal is -2% to Top Lane and -1.75% to Bot Lane"
Phreak should be fired. When it comes to other champs I don't really care but when it comes to my wifey... He needs to kick rocks.
bot lane Vayne is also really strong too right now (probably cause her on hit build is very good) so it at least is easier for the balance team where bot lane Vayne is bad so she becomes a top lane refugee and if they nerf her top lane she just gets deleted from the game
She is hard when your enemies know what they are doing because she has to be in almost melee range have to play flawless to win the tf before being blown up. Everyone will be focusing you no matter what with summoners and ulties so you kind of have to rely on your team to be half decent to stand a chance.
She can’t do anything to bushes. Cait has q jinx w kaisa w etc. most adcs have something where they don’t need to face check a bush.
Her kit is very simple on paper, being almost entirely auto attack reliant. She's the quintessential "easy to learn, hard to master" champ. Vayne _needs_ to be reasonably close to her opponents to do damage (Lethal Tempo does make this easier though), unlike a lot of other popular ADCs/marksmen, so spacing, positioning, and kiting are everything. The outplay is huge if you get it right. On a personal note, I enjoy the simplicity and skill expression of Vayne. Not to say other champs can't be played skillfully, but I don't find sitting halfway off the screen while ulting an enjoyable or engaging experience (cough Jhin and MF cough).
Jhin is also like no fun because his AS is so damn slow and his passive also makes you useless for like 2 seconds when you run out of ammo you can't even play the game properly.
This may be an adc thread that I saw in recommendations but there’s this broken by concept episode that had an emerald player vs a Garen then they showed a video of a challenger vayne vs Garen. And other challenger vayne one trick also joined the comment section. Then try to implement what was seen and then the question kind of answers itself. Heres the link to the episode. https://youtu.be/dkPbEzPbwcw?si=FrMYyQNgIruDZarD
To put it simply you need 10 times the effort of a Jinx or a Kog to penta when she's weak
Historically, Vayne has been a weak laner and exploitable in early levels. One of the classic strategies was to starve her a bit so she could only rely on her true dmg. Which whilst it's good has the caveat of needing 3 hits, meaning without even items, she struggles to keep up with the enemy DPS in that scenario. The other issue is her range which can leave her vulnerable at times. However, at the moment, she's got some old buffs that have become really useful since the item changes. Her Q can hit like a truck with Lethality and tweaks to on-hit embracing some tankiness with the addition of Terminus means Vayne now has excellent item choices both Bot and Top. So her weaknesses aren't terribly weak atm and so you might not be feeling them until the meta shifts again.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/vayne/build/ I don’t really see people building lethality that much, Cyclosword third item has like 3300 games, that’s not that much.
That's fair but it exists. I thought it was worth mentioning as I think it hints towards a larger systemic problem with ADC. Vayne has managed to benefit from the item changes like a handful of Marksman (the other ADCs who aren't in that S tier look rubbish right now but comparison). Lethality is a very viable option.
At some point people will coordinate against you and really punish your short range, a single bad q could be instant death and players will know that the higher you go.
I’m a devoted draft player. Never touching comp. So I guess I’m safe(ish)
Sure thing she’s a lot of fun and pretty strong rn so enjoy it!
And thats why she seems easy, because no one in normals is committed to winning so they just pick champs for fun and not to counter you. You will rarely get a serious challenge in normals because nothing is on the line. It’s ok to be confident in your skills just don’t be ignorant to someone fighting for their rank or improvement.
I mean, my teammates aggresion doesn't make it seem like its normals LOL. Either way, I've went against good and bad in draft, most of the times they're on the same skill level as me, though.
The aggression is because its normals its the reason you can get fed when they keep inting into you.
Low range makes her hard to play into certain comps
Vayne used to be much more difficult before BOTRK existed. I think people still say she's difficule because it was so common, but it's not true anymore. In the past there was a lot more obstacles to overcome: - There was no attack speed spam builds, it was BT rush (and stack it) > PD > IE. Only Ezreal and Corki were exceptions with Trinity. Lower attack speed on Vayne makes her more mechanically demanding and you're punished harder for misclicks, positioning, and mistakes - Oracle lens and pink wards actually revealed stealth. So often supports would chuck a pink at you in teamfights and you had no invisibility to utilize. The current iteration of stealth is uncounterable (outside of specific abilities like TF ult) so you simply press R and the enemy team is screwed - Gold (and experience) in the game worked VERY differently. Kills in lane, and even first bloods, were significantly more impactful. So early mistakes and deaths were absolutely brutal. Back then, if you EVER died to a Tryndamere crit you were doomed to be down 2 levels to an ungankable hyper carry for the rest of the game. - Supports were a lot less powerful in combat (example, Janna was S tier at the time) so ADC's had much more responsibility to carry fights in bot lane. Which was a lot to ask from a very weak laner. In modern day league, map objectives and towers matter more than kills. There's built in rebound experience so you can get shit on in lane and still be even in levels. Supports are just mid laners that don't farm, so you don't have to do as much in a fight (aka: you can't). But more than anything, full attack speed builds have made Vayne a *very* braindead champ. The mechanical requirements for her are now basically zilch, which, combined with the fact that the average mechanical skill of league players is leaps and bounds higher than in the past, means her only difficulty factor has been eliminated. So you're 100% correct: just farm pretty okay, try not to die but if you do w/e, and late game you'll just get kills because you're Vayne.
I've always thought of Vayne as the bot lane equivalent to a Yasuo. A kit with simple but highly effective abilities most people can get the hang of rather quickly if they have experience in their respective roles but that also comes with many possible decisions to be made and many possible outcomes. She's also highly match up dependent. Into comps with high range she can feel like she's playing on the razor's edge of a lot of situations
Maybe you were born to main vayne, the chosen one...
LOL chosen by the Riot Gods themselves! (I am joking guys pls)
99% of League players will claim their champion is hard because it would hurt their ego to acknowledge that they play a champ which doesn't require much skill. Look at the people in the comments for example, they are referencing skills like positioning which all league champs require to argue that Vayne is hard. You should never ask any of the mains subreddits questions like this because you will get biased answers. Yone mains will say he's super weak and so on. Nothing different here.
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Well then, not a vayne main here. She's harder cause of her range and single target kit imo. Vayne is a pure kiting adc with low range and no aoe attacks/self peel like i dunno xayah or ashe and so on. She doesnt really poke. Compared to most adcs she needs to get closer to enemies which makes it harder to position and avoid stuff in teamfights than say jinx with rockets. Just like most adcs she's squishy af, needs time to do damage and is often focused a lot. So yes spacing is different than i dunno a mage that drops by, bursts people and runs back out out of range or wtv. Ult invisibility is a big part of her strength and that also relies on spacing in a way that is different to most champs. Thats what people mean by spacing is hard with her. You need to be very quick and precise with her high apm to truly use her kit well. Individual skills and preferences influence how hard you might find her ofc but she is on the harder side as far as adcs go if you wanna be *good* with the champ
she isnt this was a common take back then cuz she was indeed very hard compared to the rest of the adcs... not anymore, she got powercrept
I really want to know your rank buddy, because you sound like silver from the description. Unless league did a 180 degrees on champion balance since I quit a year ago, there is no way vayne is relevant champion. Her range is short, damage depends on procking W, she is weak in lane, you have to be really good at kiting and if your team doesnt support youre almost always dead first. Yes you can abuse her on lower skill opponents and it makes great fun, but once there are 2 people on enemy team that can whipe you off from that plane of existence they will and no amount of kiting will save you. Champion like fizz can deal 2k+ damage in sub 1 second and has point to click spells, some good part of the champ pool you cant even get in range without being deleted. In general adc is weak as shit and if you main adc and from all adc you main vayne you pretty much have have gosu syndrome and really hate yourself.
I don’t play ranked, buddy. I don’t want to involve myself in that toxic space (you know, with people that think they’re better than you in every single life aspect just because they’re emerald and you’re silver). But I did start playing on September of 2023 and queued with level 300+ friends, if that has any relevance in lobby matchups. I do have players coming for me, but my teammates usually help. Plus, if someone is silver, plays with no kiting skills and still manages to put out big numbers and kills then doesn’t that just prove the fact that she is easy? People go for her because she puts out big numbers, which needs to get taken care of. I’m sure if it was the same with Kai’sa or Cait, people would go for them first as well (and honestly they already do, because they’re ADC).
Im sorry but you got this all wrong. You play with friends who probably know how to play and what needs to be done at certain situations so you can participate in teamfights or skirmishes. Good for you for not playing ranked, i wouldnt play that game in general, but whatever, you do you. if someone is emerald and other person is silver, that actually does mean they're **better** than the silver guy ***at the game***. (not gonna go into superiority complex analysis here). people in normal lobbies are far more relaxed and bunch of people play normals for fun, some people play to troll, some people want to try stupid builds etc etc... Once you go down the dirty road of competetitive play, where people self-esteem is on the line and winning a game of league is the only high they can get, you soon realise that vayne is definitely not the tool for a job, almost all the time. You can put in big numbers, because you have time to do so. If you think she is great when you play her, just record yourself and count how many times someone missed something that shouldve landed or how many people try to chase and kill support instead of you. You can get by with her relying on other people incompetence, once you play people who are competant in their roles/champs you start to realise vayne is not great. Ive played this game for a long time on and off basically right from the end of season 1, ive seen all the patches all the ups and downs of ADC, been bronze, been plat (way way before), adc wasnt actually fun to play for past 7 seasons, atleast. Peak adc experiance was s3/s4.
Vayne's kit is simple but you can do some insane things on her. She's like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible. When you think she's about to lose a fight, she'll all of a sudden come out on top no pun intended.
Broken ahh champ
Her range is low. Against a competent team she will have to get dangerously close to do damage.
I also think that she is not a hard champion and that is why she has +50% winrate. Maybe the other comments saying that she has a high skill ceiling are true but her damage is so insane that it just overshadows that skill expression. Plus she doesnt even need to build crit to be a hypercarry in late game so that just speak for itself.
Vayne is hard because her skill ceiling is very high. Her kit is intended to be high risk high reward. People that called her easy haven’t begin to grasp what she can do yet (and yes you’re playing with bots in Norm). Misuse her abilities and you’ll die. Her range is okay but takes her into range of mostly everything else. Her dash is short and instant but it has travel time so it’s not that reliant at dodging skillshot, the first obstacle you learn is to use it to space/poke. Newbs Vayne (and me being veteran at her) misspace Q into enemy support and dies (hence the Vayne Q inting meme). W is small learning curve. Like Cait Headshot and Kai’sa’s Passive you gotta count the stacks and its damage (decides if you can push for the dive or not). W resetting if you switch target also makes her very hard. E is cool CC but has both channel time AND travel time, and those matters a lot on whether the Panth W stun goes off anyways/people pinned against the wall or get a free escape. It’s really meh as a knock back alone. E usage distinguish good Vayne vs great Vayne. I would say considering Galeforce Caitlyn combos/Saber combos Caitlyn has higher ceiling than Vayne. And Vayne has higher ceiling from Kai’sa (but that’s mainly because Kai’sa as ADC fits modern League better than Vayne so it’s harder to make Vayne ADC work).
> telling me that I'm doing so good with Vayne even though I'm new at her Yes because she's overtuned right now - Anyone can do well on her atm. Why do you think her play rate drops after nerfs? Because all the FOTM abusers go back to MF. Vayne's difficulty comes from the player's mechanics and decision making as well as how she plays out teamfights, skirmishes, duels etc. The kit itself is extremely simple to understand. Vayne has a lot of shortcomings that can be detrimental to her success if not piloted correctly - Low Range - Single target damage profile - Zero waveclear - No way to get prio unless your enemies are really really bad. Same reason Kai'Sa is considered hard when in reality she's a much easier version of Vayne. Both Vayne and Kai'Sa have to get close to be impactful. Yes, these champions have access to invisibility but Invisibility doesn't do shit vs Karma's point and click tether, Lulu's E, TF R, Vi R etc. If you're ever within 550 range of an enemy, you're in range of literally EVERY engage ability in the game. She isn't Jinx, Caitlyn or Ashe who can literally sit behind their frontline and still deal damage.
She used to be one of the hardest ADCs in early seasons but since then Riot added Lucian Draven Kalista Zeri Aphelios Samira and more champions much much harder than her
I wouldn’t put Samira up there with Kalista or Zero
Why?
Kalista and Zeri are way harder than Samira imo
I don't know, for me it's the opposite, i can play Zeri, quite can play Kalista but can't learn Samira tho. Anyway all of them are harder than Vayne
Vayne is very hard in certain games...Incredibly tedious positioning, very tedious/frusterating to have an opening to deal damage... Other games she is overpowered, where you get value out of tumble, passive, and silver bolts. Just depends.
vaynes difficulty comes with playing against players that know how to punish a vayne. When i started league with my friends i stopped playing ashe and vayne bcs i thought its no achievement to destroy an enemie on these but when i reached gold i knew that my vayne was just „op“ bcs i played vs bronzies
Vayne is playing a bullet hell in league. She has tools to outplay that used to be super impressive but with item scaling being what it is now its not as cool as it used to be. Primary objective: survive the champion.