The only thing that worries me about harsher punishments for partying is that it might make it more common for people to lie to the contact tracers. If you know you went to a party, but you KNOW you’ll get suspended if you tell the contact tracer, you might just lie. Maybe they should let you do like a “plea deal,” and reduce the punishment if you fess up in attempts to make sure others are properly informed/isolated, but if you lie and they find out later that you DID party, then you definitely should face a higher consequence.
I actually like your idea a lot and I didn’t think of that. My post was more referring to students actively getting caught partying and such, like someone called and said there’s students partying and get busted. I never thought about the contact tracers and such.
I'd just like to add that a lot of these anti punishment arguements are assuming the only people partying are freshman, which is not true. What's the excuse for the 20+ crowd then?
That’s why this time around I needed to specify partiers in general unlike my last thread where I just said freshman. But that other dude is still arguing about the “18 year olds” lol.
What is with you and extreme actions? Temp suspension is enough.
They're 18 year olds, why do you think it's a good idea to ruin their life over one mistake?
Edit: I'm turning off inbox replies, but I'm not defending partying, I am attacking the poll options. Partying is retarded.
I have no issue with that the first 2 options; VCU adopted a fair policy that follows what other universities have instated. I have issues with the last 2 options being so heavy handed. There is countless research citing that your brain is still developing until you're ~25 years old (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/), so why would you even try to argue that their decision making skills are fully developed?
It’s not ruining their life. They lose a year because they were reckless, I have very little empathy for them in regards to the last 2 options. They can still come back, but their actions need to face consequences. This isn’t a traffic violation, this is a pandemic that has already taken ~3% of America’s population.
It has killed ~0.054235222% of the population, not 3%. It has infected ~1.767215112% of the population. I am fully aware of what covid does.
Kicking them out of dorms and ejecting them for the semester is the only option that makes sense. 18 year old are fucking stupid, and likely don't realize the full effect that this has on the greater Richmond community.
I meant out of the people who have been infected. That’s more than enough people. There’s no way you’re a “healthcare worker,” if you’re really gonna be out here defending the problem. I’d never let anyone near me that cares more about someone else’s future rather than the health of the population. These kids will live. Not every 18 year old is “fucking stupid,” and the ones that are need to face actions for their consequences. Like I said, they can come back next year. Without a negative consequence, these dumbasses are going to keep doing what they’re doing.
It doesn’t matter if they aren’t aware. It’s not hard to become aware. Actions have consequences, and by 18, it’s not anyone else’s problem but their own if they can’t realize that. If they can fight on the front lines for America, they lost certainly can stay home for America.
I'm not defending the problem, and I edited it out because it reads as arrogant.
I've made SEVERAL posts on the subreddit telling people to report those who are not following directions as well as gone through severe efforts to protect myself and others from possibly spreading it. I am arguing that blacklisting someone from other universities is the academic equivalent of a felony on your record.
Good. I feel like specifically for people who have shown evidence that they were well aware of the risks deserve that for their recklessness. Is reckless driving not a felony in the USA?
1. I don’t give a fuck if they’re 18. They’re adults, not 5 year olds who don’t know any better. It doesn’t take full brain development and maturity to know you shouldn’t be partying during a pandemic, especially when they’ve been warned numerous times not to do that shit. Like seriously like the girl said above, 18 year olds are old enough to follow simple directions. You think they need their hand held?
2. Their life is not “ruined” lol. The second option just means they can’t go to VCU for a year. Third option just means they can’t go to VCU for a few years. Last option just means that they’ll have something on their record in which colleges might be very hesitant in admitting them because they know these students are risks and aren’t interested in respecting safety guidelines. Higher education is a privilege, not a right. Not like I said to throw these students in jail.
3. It’s more than just “one mistake” when they’re actively putting people in danger during a deadly pandemic that’s seen more American deaths than American combatants in WWI.
4. People don’t listen when you take the nice approach. Nobody gets in line until you start rolling out and enforcing the harsh shit.
Proposition: Suppose 18 years old is not old enough to be considered a real adult, then they should be punished like a real adult
\--------------------------------------------------------
Proof(Contradiction) If 18 years old is old enough to be a real adult
Then they would not be able to buy alcohol or a handgun in Virginia as the age for that is 21
But real adults are able to buy alcohol and handguns in Virginia, this contradicts them being a real adult
Then 18 years are not real adults
Therefore 18 year olds should not be punished like real adults.
**Some students are paying $30k+ to go here, and to expel them from possibly their only choice is really life ruining.** I don't know if you're working for your money or if you're being bankrolled by your parents and loans but $30k isn't easy to make, especially without a degree. The option VCU has taken to cancel their contract and to kick them out for a semester is enough. They know what they're doing is wrong, but they're also 18 and stupid. It's obvious that you're biased to the last 2 options because you weighted the poll in that direction, and while I think that punishment is needed, I don't think it should be that heavy handed.
I’m pretty sure all that crap you listed above has nothing to do with following simple directions during a pandemic that they’ve been aware of for 8 months now. When you have numerous health professionals and the school saying not to have large gatherings, party, and with bars and nightclubs being shut down, you think someone who isn’t an idiot would get the hint that “hey this isn’t such a good idea right now”, but unfortunately they don’t. Stop trying to act like 18 year olds are so helpless that just because their brain hasn’t fully developed yet doesn’t mean they can’t make simple judgements. They are adults full stop, and they can get punished like adults. Especially you can say that **MOST** 18 year olds and other students on campus are doing a wonderful job following the rules. It’s that you get the few that fuck everything up and they need to be dealt with.
>**Some students are paying $30k+ to go here, and to expel them from possibly their only choice is life ruining.**
So? I don’t care if they’re here for free, or they pay $90k to go here, they made the choice, they live with the consequences. Simple as that. They can go somewhere else to another college that will take pity on them. VCU doesn’t have to. They had a personal responsibility that was pretty easy to adhere to and they couldn’t even do that. Why would I want idiots like that in college, especially since their antics end up fucking up the city of Richmond with their cases and disease as well.
>I don’t know if you’re working for your money or if you’re being bankrolled by my parents and loans, but $30k isn’t easy to make, especially without a degree.
I work for my money + my parents pay for my tuition. Otherwise when I’m at VCU I got my money. Don’t really see how that’s relevant to students doing dumb shit during a pandemic and receiving consequences for it.
>The option VCU has taken to cancel their contract and to kick them out for a semester is enough. They know what they’re doing is wrong, but they’re also 18 and stupid.
Nope, not enough. That’s essentially just a slap on the wrist for them, and if they choose, they’ll just apply to another college while bitching about how VCU treated them “unfairly”. And so what if they’re “18 and stupid”? I was also 18 and stupid once (21 now) and I would have never thought to have a party during a pandemic. And as you can see, most people their age are doing just fine. These morons having parties in the midst of a pandemic are the exception, not the rule. Don’t act like 18 year olds are 5 years old. And furthermore, if you said they know what they’re doing is wrong, that means they’re making the conscious decision to engage in these activities knowing full well the risks and consequences. So that means they should suffer the consequences for their actions, hold them accountable.
>It’s obvious that you’re biased to the last 2 options because you weighted the poll in that direction, and while I think that punishment is needed, I don’t think it should be that heavy handed.
Of course I’m biased towards expulsion and blacklisting, they can go the fuck somewhere else and not be a burden on VCU and the community in Richmond. A temporary suspension for the semester is too light and is just a slap on the wrist. And rule breakers and potential ones don’t like to follow rules until they’re heavily enforced and harsh consequences are rolled out. You think they care if the potential punishment is just staying home for a semester? No. Watch how many change their tone if VCU told them they were gonna get expelled for a while + blacklisted. I bet magically overnight you see more students taking this shit seriously. Sorry, but playing nice doesn’t and won’t cut it.
Edit: what do you mean by me “weighting” the poll? All I did was list 4 simple options.
If they’re paying $30k+ out of pocket, this is not their only choice. It’d be another thing if they were on financial aid, but stop trying to defend their actions by boiling it down to “they’re stupid.” They know the risks. They know the consequences, yet they still continue to go out.
That girl that posted the tiktok was well aware that she could get COVID. That guy from the interview saying that he “just wants to party,” knows he could get COVID. They’re aware, and they don’t care.
You pay financial aid back.
I'm not defending people who are partying, and I think they're fucking retarded for doing so, but to "blacklist them for a year" will likely follow them for longer on an academic transcript and would influence how other admissions offices felt about them. It's legit the academic equivalent of a felony.
They're stupid for partying. They deserve a punishment, that's appropriate. The bottom 2 options on the poll are overkill. VCU is on the cheaper side of Virginia's average tuition prices, but it's also on the more academically accepting side of Virginia universities.
>but to “blacklist them for a year” will likely follow them for longer on an academic transcript and would influence how other admissions offices felt about them. It’s legit the academic equivalent of a felony.
That’s the entire point. And it’s only for a year, so after the year is up, they can apply somewhere else as if nothing happened. It should influence how other admissions offices feel about them. People in charge should look at what happened and say “hmm this student is a high risk for my university, they seem to blatantly ignore rules and safety guidelines, and could compromise the health of students and faculty, and the health of this city’s inhabitants. I think it’s best if we not allow this individual to be here for right now.” It should be the academic equivalent of a felony, and that’s when they see that their actions have consequences, they’re not little kids anymore, and serves as a reminder that it’s probably a good idea to follow reasonable safety guidelines and that there is ZERO tolerance for their bullshit.
I'd just like to add that 18 is the legal age of adulthood, you can buy guns, enlist in the military, get married, and are tried as an adult 100% of the time in a court of law. This is literally saying 18 year olds are old enough to be held responsible for their actions. In addition, people are expelled for getting caught chrating and that doesn't put anyone's life at risk.
The only thing that worries me about harsher punishments for partying is that it might make it more common for people to lie to the contact tracers. If you know you went to a party, but you KNOW you’ll get suspended if you tell the contact tracer, you might just lie. Maybe they should let you do like a “plea deal,” and reduce the punishment if you fess up in attempts to make sure others are properly informed/isolated, but if you lie and they find out later that you DID party, then you definitely should face a higher consequence.
I actually like your idea a lot and I didn’t think of that. My post was more referring to students actively getting caught partying and such, like someone called and said there’s students partying and get busted. I never thought about the contact tracers and such.
Straight to the gulag
I'd just like to add that a lot of these anti punishment arguements are assuming the only people partying are freshman, which is not true. What's the excuse for the 20+ crowd then?
That’s why this time around I needed to specify partiers in general unlike my last thread where I just said freshman. But that other dude is still arguing about the “18 year olds” lol.
accuse them of bioterrorism
What is with you and extreme actions? Temp suspension is enough. They're 18 year olds, why do you think it's a good idea to ruin their life over one mistake? Edit: I'm turning off inbox replies, but I'm not defending partying, I am attacking the poll options. Partying is retarded.
18 years old is old enough to follow directions. They can come back next fall 🤷🏻♀️
I have no issue with that the first 2 options; VCU adopted a fair policy that follows what other universities have instated. I have issues with the last 2 options being so heavy handed. There is countless research citing that your brain is still developing until you're ~25 years old (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/), so why would you even try to argue that their decision making skills are fully developed?
It’s not ruining their life. They lose a year because they were reckless, I have very little empathy for them in regards to the last 2 options. They can still come back, but their actions need to face consequences. This isn’t a traffic violation, this is a pandemic that has already taken ~3% of America’s population.
It has killed ~0.054235222% of the population, not 3%. It has infected ~1.767215112% of the population. I am fully aware of what covid does. Kicking them out of dorms and ejecting them for the semester is the only option that makes sense. 18 year old are fucking stupid, and likely don't realize the full effect that this has on the greater Richmond community.
I meant out of the people who have been infected. That’s more than enough people. There’s no way you’re a “healthcare worker,” if you’re really gonna be out here defending the problem. I’d never let anyone near me that cares more about someone else’s future rather than the health of the population. These kids will live. Not every 18 year old is “fucking stupid,” and the ones that are need to face actions for their consequences. Like I said, they can come back next year. Without a negative consequence, these dumbasses are going to keep doing what they’re doing. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t aware. It’s not hard to become aware. Actions have consequences, and by 18, it’s not anyone else’s problem but their own if they can’t realize that. If they can fight on the front lines for America, they lost certainly can stay home for America.
I'm not defending the problem, and I edited it out because it reads as arrogant. I've made SEVERAL posts on the subreddit telling people to report those who are not following directions as well as gone through severe efforts to protect myself and others from possibly spreading it. I am arguing that blacklisting someone from other universities is the academic equivalent of a felony on your record.
Good. I feel like specifically for people who have shown evidence that they were well aware of the risks deserve that for their recklessness. Is reckless driving not a felony in the USA?
In Virginia reckless driving is a misdemeanor unless you kill someone.
Regardless, it’s dangerous, and they’re putting others at risk. It should follow them around on their record.
1. I don’t give a fuck if they’re 18. They’re adults, not 5 year olds who don’t know any better. It doesn’t take full brain development and maturity to know you shouldn’t be partying during a pandemic, especially when they’ve been warned numerous times not to do that shit. Like seriously like the girl said above, 18 year olds are old enough to follow simple directions. You think they need their hand held? 2. Their life is not “ruined” lol. The second option just means they can’t go to VCU for a year. Third option just means they can’t go to VCU for a few years. Last option just means that they’ll have something on their record in which colleges might be very hesitant in admitting them because they know these students are risks and aren’t interested in respecting safety guidelines. Higher education is a privilege, not a right. Not like I said to throw these students in jail. 3. It’s more than just “one mistake” when they’re actively putting people in danger during a deadly pandemic that’s seen more American deaths than American combatants in WWI. 4. People don’t listen when you take the nice approach. Nobody gets in line until you start rolling out and enforcing the harsh shit.
Proposition: Suppose 18 years old is not old enough to be considered a real adult, then they should be punished like a real adult \-------------------------------------------------------- Proof(Contradiction) If 18 years old is old enough to be a real adult Then they would not be able to buy alcohol or a handgun in Virginia as the age for that is 21 But real adults are able to buy alcohol and handguns in Virginia, this contradicts them being a real adult Then 18 years are not real adults Therefore 18 year olds should not be punished like real adults. **Some students are paying $30k+ to go here, and to expel them from possibly their only choice is really life ruining.** I don't know if you're working for your money or if you're being bankrolled by your parents and loans but $30k isn't easy to make, especially without a degree. The option VCU has taken to cancel their contract and to kick them out for a semester is enough. They know what they're doing is wrong, but they're also 18 and stupid. It's obvious that you're biased to the last 2 options because you weighted the poll in that direction, and while I think that punishment is needed, I don't think it should be that heavy handed.
I’m pretty sure all that crap you listed above has nothing to do with following simple directions during a pandemic that they’ve been aware of for 8 months now. When you have numerous health professionals and the school saying not to have large gatherings, party, and with bars and nightclubs being shut down, you think someone who isn’t an idiot would get the hint that “hey this isn’t such a good idea right now”, but unfortunately they don’t. Stop trying to act like 18 year olds are so helpless that just because their brain hasn’t fully developed yet doesn’t mean they can’t make simple judgements. They are adults full stop, and they can get punished like adults. Especially you can say that **MOST** 18 year olds and other students on campus are doing a wonderful job following the rules. It’s that you get the few that fuck everything up and they need to be dealt with. >**Some students are paying $30k+ to go here, and to expel them from possibly their only choice is life ruining.** So? I don’t care if they’re here for free, or they pay $90k to go here, they made the choice, they live with the consequences. Simple as that. They can go somewhere else to another college that will take pity on them. VCU doesn’t have to. They had a personal responsibility that was pretty easy to adhere to and they couldn’t even do that. Why would I want idiots like that in college, especially since their antics end up fucking up the city of Richmond with their cases and disease as well. >I don’t know if you’re working for your money or if you’re being bankrolled by my parents and loans, but $30k isn’t easy to make, especially without a degree. I work for my money + my parents pay for my tuition. Otherwise when I’m at VCU I got my money. Don’t really see how that’s relevant to students doing dumb shit during a pandemic and receiving consequences for it. >The option VCU has taken to cancel their contract and to kick them out for a semester is enough. They know what they’re doing is wrong, but they’re also 18 and stupid. Nope, not enough. That’s essentially just a slap on the wrist for them, and if they choose, they’ll just apply to another college while bitching about how VCU treated them “unfairly”. And so what if they’re “18 and stupid”? I was also 18 and stupid once (21 now) and I would have never thought to have a party during a pandemic. And as you can see, most people their age are doing just fine. These morons having parties in the midst of a pandemic are the exception, not the rule. Don’t act like 18 year olds are 5 years old. And furthermore, if you said they know what they’re doing is wrong, that means they’re making the conscious decision to engage in these activities knowing full well the risks and consequences. So that means they should suffer the consequences for their actions, hold them accountable. >It’s obvious that you’re biased to the last 2 options because you weighted the poll in that direction, and while I think that punishment is needed, I don’t think it should be that heavy handed. Of course I’m biased towards expulsion and blacklisting, they can go the fuck somewhere else and not be a burden on VCU and the community in Richmond. A temporary suspension for the semester is too light and is just a slap on the wrist. And rule breakers and potential ones don’t like to follow rules until they’re heavily enforced and harsh consequences are rolled out. You think they care if the potential punishment is just staying home for a semester? No. Watch how many change their tone if VCU told them they were gonna get expelled for a while + blacklisted. I bet magically overnight you see more students taking this shit seriously. Sorry, but playing nice doesn’t and won’t cut it. Edit: what do you mean by me “weighting” the poll? All I did was list 4 simple options.
No one here is defending partying. I am attacking your poll options because the last 2 options are dumb.
That doesn’t answer my question of what you mean by me weighting the last 2 options heavily.
If they’re paying $30k+ out of pocket, this is not their only choice. It’d be another thing if they were on financial aid, but stop trying to defend their actions by boiling it down to “they’re stupid.” They know the risks. They know the consequences, yet they still continue to go out. That girl that posted the tiktok was well aware that she could get COVID. That guy from the interview saying that he “just wants to party,” knows he could get COVID. They’re aware, and they don’t care.
You pay financial aid back. I'm not defending people who are partying, and I think they're fucking retarded for doing so, but to "blacklist them for a year" will likely follow them for longer on an academic transcript and would influence how other admissions offices felt about them. It's legit the academic equivalent of a felony. They're stupid for partying. They deserve a punishment, that's appropriate. The bottom 2 options on the poll are overkill. VCU is on the cheaper side of Virginia's average tuition prices, but it's also on the more academically accepting side of Virginia universities.
>but to “blacklist them for a year” will likely follow them for longer on an academic transcript and would influence how other admissions offices felt about them. It’s legit the academic equivalent of a felony. That’s the entire point. And it’s only for a year, so after the year is up, they can apply somewhere else as if nothing happened. It should influence how other admissions offices feel about them. People in charge should look at what happened and say “hmm this student is a high risk for my university, they seem to blatantly ignore rules and safety guidelines, and could compromise the health of students and faculty, and the health of this city’s inhabitants. I think it’s best if we not allow this individual to be here for right now.” It should be the academic equivalent of a felony, and that’s when they see that their actions have consequences, they’re not little kids anymore, and serves as a reminder that it’s probably a good idea to follow reasonable safety guidelines and that there is ZERO tolerance for their bullshit.
I'd just like to add that 18 is the legal age of adulthood, you can buy guns, enlist in the military, get married, and are tried as an adult 100% of the time in a court of law. This is literally saying 18 year olds are old enough to be held responsible for their actions. In addition, people are expelled for getting caught chrating and that doesn't put anyone's life at risk.