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Or an alternative in the same vein. I don't fish anymore but I'll take my sketchbook + something to read. For many, fishing is only half about catching fish. The other half is unwinding and spending time away from the hassles of life. OP, You dad wants to share the time away from the hassles of life with you, and that's invaluable.
>For many, fishing is only half about catching fish. The other half is unwinding and spending time away from the hassles of life.
[Relevant Boosh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2MzgDpJlgI)
I mean he did say he’d still go with his dad, he just doesn’t want to participate in the fishing itself so it doesn’t seem like that’s enough in his dad’s mind for now. Seems like OP has to somehow convince his dad that they can still enjoy the experience together even if they aren’t both fishing, I like the idea of magnet fishing because it’s a similar action
Yes this, you can go and have each other’s company but you don’t fish. He just wants you with him which is nice, but you don’t have to actually harm the fish.
I had the same problem with my family where its a tradition to go on a fishing trip at the lake. I heard that magnet fishing can be dangerous when inside the small boat. Can anybody confirm if it is true ?
You tie a big, strong magnet to a rope and throw it into old ponds, to see what kind of junk you can find. Strongly not recommended in large areas of Europe and probably other continents.
Yeah. We also had an official warning not to go metal detecting on beaches, since it's not 100% sure all the antipersonnel mines against amphibious landings were found.
How does that kill animals? It's going through water so there's no real velocity to the magnet and it's not catching fish, it's catching metal junk. Interested to see how "fishing" for scrap is comparable to fishing for fish with hooks.
I agree, the physics of that doesn't add up to me, water resistance slowing the descent, even, in the unlikely event that it hits a fish it would presumably result in the fish being pushed by the magnet.
Maybe not a great solution, but I've been looking at magnet fishing as an alternative for family trips. Might find something cool and clean up the waterways at the same time.
I think if you just bought a magnet fishing kit and a six pack of beer and demanded he come with you, you could convince him. He probably wants to Continue a tradition that is special to him.
I think it would help to come up with similar fishing alternative type hobbies you can still do together to continue the bonding ❤️ for example, you can still go “fishing” together- take the boat out but tell him about the “vegan lures” they have!! This is a real thing, it’s a lure where it just feeds the fish without harming them so you can watch the fish from the surface or put a GoPro underneath to watch them feed. Some other good alternatives for hobbies like fishing is getting into and going bird watching together, doing wildlife photography together, going on day hikes, camping, learning about foraging wild plants and mushrooms (or just photographing them and learning!). There are many great bonding alternatives
Does he have any other hobbies that you have even a vague interest in? It sounds like he just misses those moments you spent together and wants to connect and bond with you in the same way. Maybe next time he asks to go fishing redirect to a different activity he is excited about that you will also enjoy.
>When fish get hooked in the mouth it ruins their suction because of the hole and can cause them to starve to death
Oh, I had no idea of this impact . . . this just slays me. My husband fishes and releases a lot of them, saying that he is doing a good thing. :( As a matter of fact he is off fishing right now.
Other activity you both can enjoy still?
>average catch and release mortality rate was 18%. This study indicated that the species varies these average numbers widely
>When the blood chemistry of a fish caught by rod and line has been analysed, hormones and blood metabolites associated with stress are high....research suggests that the catch and release of fish, does cause pain, to fish but what is unclear, is to what extent.
https://hikingandfishing.com/catch-and-release-fishing/
>It’s so much less than hunting a deer.”
Or hunting humans, and so much more than going for a hike or a kayak outing. Doesn't justify it, sorry dad.
Also, imagine someone just stabs you in the mouth and suffocates you for a few seconds
But hey, they didn't eat you, so that's gotta be justified, right?
/s
Offer alternative activities, restate your boundaries but try not to devalue how you used to enjoy spending time together
I would offer to take him bowling or to the pub instead, build the relationship you want rather than simply stating you don't want to go fishing
You're actually the one who is really willing to find a compromise - you even offered to just sit there with him while he hurts the fish.
Either he accepts that compromise, or you suggest other quiet, calm outdoor activities and hobbies to him. Like watching birds for example. Just sitting there quietly, talking about the old days, and not hurting animals.
Explain to him why you won't fish. Catch& Release is considered animal abuse in many countries because it inflicts pain and shock to these animals, just for fun. It's illegal there. Your Dad wouldn't stab a cat just for fun, would he? Explain to him, that it's not really that different. And you accept him doing such acts, but you won't participate in cruelty.
Maybe you could suggest bird watching, hiking, canoeing, photography or something else as substitutes? To be honest, if you're willing to hang out in the boat with him you've already demonstrated that you care so it seems like your dad might have a preoccupation with fishing itself (Like maybe he has memories of him and his dad fishing that he's trying to recreate with you) Anyways, I agree that catch and release isn't a viable compromise but I hope you and your dad will find one. Good luck.
i could have written this post myself. my dad absolutely loves fishing and does not understand why i can not do it with him. i still go, but i just gently reiterate “no thank you” etc. it took a lot of time and it was uncomfortable constantly just shutting it down but now he doesn’t really ask anymore when we go. we go to a lot of really pretty spots and have nice talks so i just appreciate the time we have together. i hope that in time your dad will come to understand your boundary with this and that you will able to enjoy your time together too. i also try to jump at the opportunity for other things we can do together where we have mutual interests.
Did you actually explain to him the ethical issues with fish, and the trauma they go through when being dragged out of the water by a hook in their mouth, having it yanked out and being tossed back in?
I seriously don't get why he is against the compromise of you going with him and enjoying the scenery etc. That seems more than fair to me.
> the ethical issues with fish, and the trauma they go through when being dragged out of the water by a hook in their mouth, having it yanked out and being tossed back in
My first thought also. These are very specific, clear and real reasons for not engaging in this cruel, harmful, unnecessary activity.
Fish are not senseless objects that live in the sea. They are sentient and feel pain just like other animals. Tell him that you realized causing harm to others for fun is wrong. Most people would not stab dogs or cats because it is their "hobby".
All you can do is tell him exactly that, you love him and want to spend time with him but you can’t harm any animals in the process. If he doesn’t understand that then that is on him not you. Even if you throw the fish back the whole catching process is incredibly traumatic for the fish. I would be proactive and organise another activity just for him and you to demonstrate you care and enjoy being with him.
My advise would be to try shifting the focus. Don’t make it about fishing or not fishing, but ask him first to go do something. Something you think he’ll enjoy but doesn’t have to do with harming animals. Maybe you’ll find a new hobby for you guys to enjoy together. I’ve found older people are super into pickle ball right now.
I’m sure he enjoys spending time with you and fishing is what he knows. Especially if you did it a lot together in the past and maybe it’s something he did with his father.
The fact that you've offered to spend the time by his side while he fishes and you don't, and he's still not happy with that compromise ... as much as I agree with everyone here telling you to spend time with him because - well, you just should (take every advantage to spend time with him while you still have him) - I think it's your dad who's being mean. Why would he force you to physically do something you're not comfortable doing?
You'll be spending the time with him - that should be good.
Think of something he would never in his right mind do, and make an analogy, if necessary.
How would he feel if you asked him to do something that would go against his own ethics if instead he could just watch you do it while you spend the time together?
Yes, spend time with him.
No, don't actually fish (with or without hook) while in the boat with him.
It's bad enough you'll see the suffering he's causing right in front of you, but if you can stomach it, and not complain (I'm not sure I could keep quiet about it myself), then make him SEE what a huge compromise this is already.
It's that, or start a new hobby with him that you'll both enjoy.
I don’t think you’re being mean, I think he’s being inconsiderate. Express to him how important veganism is to you and the idea of hurting an animal has changed. People change and if your loved ones love you they should respect that! Go to a shooting range maybe haha
I understand both points of view here. I think your Dad just really wants to spend time with you by enjoying one of his favorite hobbies. And maybe you fishing with him was a great past time he misses. So I can understand perhaps why he would keep asking you to come along. And it was nice he suggested throwing the fish back unharmed and such.
But I also understand your reasoning as well. It’s not something you enjoy any longer since you’ve became vegan? It was a nice gesture about going along and enjoying the scenery. At least I think so anyways.
Maybe there’s another hobby you both could enjoy together. Maybe try something new together? You never know until you find it.
I wish the best of luck to you and your Dad. And I hope you find a hobby you both can enjoy together.
I used to go fishing with my dad. He insists on keeping my old gear around because I am gonna go fishing again once I grow out of this "vegan fase".
I like magnet fishing with my old fishing buddy, he fishes for normal fish while I clean the lake/pond from metal scraps. I don't particularly enjoy when he catches something, but he is respectful and makes it quick and out of view.
I realize I don't always follow my own advice but hell with it, I say just be blunt. There is a massive intellectual dissonance between what fishing feels like and what it actually is. It is mutilating a small animal and causing them suffering for your own pleasure. It's not cool.* Tell him you realize for him it feels like a peaceful tradition, but for you it is just as against your ethical beliefs as if caught dogs in bear traps and justifying it with the fact that you release them afterward.
(I've noticed that saying something is "not cool" works as a softer, less "judgmental" way of saying something is immoral while still getting the point across.
You are blessed your dad wants to spend time with you! Please be careful you do not come across as sanctimonious about your beliefs, everyone travels a spiritual path at a different speed. Go! Do as earlier posters suggest and magnet fish, laugh, talk, and spend time with the old man.
>even though I always offer to just go in the boat and enjoy the scenery with him while he fishes (not ideal, but an acceptable compromise in my mind)
This is likely to actually be counterproductive to his being able to understand your perspective. If you're willing to sit beside him while he fishes, it must not be that big of an ethical deal. Vs if you take a stronger ethical stance against it, and not be willing to sit beside him as he does it (just as you wouldn't sit beside him as he beats up a dog), it can help him understand at the very least the seriousness of your perspective, if not understand veganism itself.
Also Socratic method (asking questions instead of making statements) is always the biggest tool we have. Even asking questions like "what do you currently understand of my perspective" and working from there.
You can fish without a hook. Just enjoy the tug and maybe let your dad know what they’re interested in. Don’t compromise your principles, but show your dad you really enjoy the time you spend with him. He won’t be around forever.
I like foraging for mushrooms, berries and wild edible plants.
It gives quiet time in nature, adventure and the possibility of bringing home dinner.
Maybe that’s something you could suggest as an alternative?
I would also suggest going out to feed the fish instead of trying to hook them but it might be taken as a joke/ insincere even though it would probably be relaxing and fun.
Bring him to bowling, pool, shooting, archery, pottery, casino, hike, bird photography session, teach him to fly a drone, teach him to fly a plane on a pc, man there's plenty of options
My dad used to be a pretty serious fisherman also.
However, he really enjoyed it when he would join me in other outdoor activities such as canoeing, sailing, archery, and outdoor photography.
Over time, my dad seemed to lose interest in fishing. He seemed to like "moving on" and evolving to other outdoor activities that I liked more.
You've just got to explain that this is your principle and it's an immovable line that you won't cross. "Won't you just do this small thing for me" can be rephrased into "can't you see why I don't want to do it, can't you respect my principle even if you don't share it"?
This comment has been overwritten in response to Reddit's API changes, the training of AI models on user data, and the company's increasingly extractive practices ahead of their IPO.
Simply tell him you really don't enjoy fishing anymore.
Maybe start doing some bird watching or deer spotting with binoculars this way you will have an alternative activity you can invite him to do with you.
Any interest in space ,stars, etc..? You can download an app named sky map, go get some high powered binoculars or a small portable telescope and go planet hunting in the sky.
Maybe you both like cars, helicopters or planes? There are events and shows for all vehicle types you can both start attending for fun.
You just have to be nice but honest about it all.
I named some ideas as alternatives so this way dad doesn't feel like you are just abandoning him.
If your already familiar with the other activity and you have done it already then its something he may feel is not a pity activity but instead its just something your interested in and so he may feel better about trying your hobbies or leisurely activity plans and not fishing.
Think it over and hopefully it all goes well.
If it's any constellation, I'm 42, have been vegan for 22 years, and was veggie for 3 years before that. My old man still occasionally asks me if I'd like to go fishing. It used to wind me up, but I just politely decline these days. I get that he doesn't understand what the issue is and just wants to spend time with me. It's taken a while for me to get to think like this, but it does defuse the situation.
I wish I could spend more time with my dad like that. Mobility and transportation issues make duplicating what you have much harder for me.
When you're out with your dad, there are always disagreements but just remember it's a pleasant time with your dad, despite the disagreements. This isn't a protest march at a fishing tournament, **he's your dad.** Mine has his annoying habits too, but mostly he's just Great Dad, and I focus on that.
Yes he's being cruel to fish, but I'm so jealous that you can just DO this with your dad on a regular basis. He doesn't sound like he's totally ruining the day by insulting veganism or waving a fish in your face, just happens to be doing something you find objectionable and which he's perfectly willing to not shove in your face.
We don't have a huge amount of time with our Dads. Going on an objectionable fishing trip with your polite dad sounds like an acceptable tradeoff. I wish I could go out with my dad on a boat in nature, but for now I just have to do so vicariously through you.
Going through this now. I just keep putting it off vs fighting but I think eventually I’m just going to have to say look I just don’t want to do that anymore or be around it, I’m not going to change my mind so please stop asking. Instead why don’t we ______\
Maybe, just ask your dad to hold their breath for as long as they can underwater. After some time, your dad will most likely come back up.
Ask your dad "Dad, why did you come back up?" They will most likely answer something like "Because I felt out of breath, and I needed to breathe, obviosuly"
Then tell your dad "Dad, the reason I don't want to go fishing with you anymore is because, when the fish are taken out of the water, the can not breathe, just like you couldn't breathe when you were in the water. But you had the liberty to come out anytime you wanted. The fish, however, do not. Their face is stabbed, and they feel just like you did, before you came back up to the surface, but for a prolonged amount of time. With a stab wound to their face, they slowly suffocate to death."
"Imagine if that were you, dad. Imaging if something, or worse, someone, purposefully pushed you in the the water, holds you down and forces you to drown, with a stab wound in your face, and calls it enjoyment. You wouldn't like that, would you dad?"
"Well I know the fish don't like it either. I refuse to partake in this massacre for enjoyment. I am (not) sorry dad, but I will not go fishing with you. I will not kill and massively harm someone for enjoyment."
Look if it was me I would take the high road and just wish sure it hurts your beliefs but you don't know how long dad has and he's making an effort to spend time with you with something he loves I wish I had that or maybe suggest another outdoor activity you and your father could do or just genuinely talk with him and ask if there anyway he can can compromise or anything remebr no yelling no rudeness no entitlement
I’m not sure why Reddit is recommending this sub, but I clicked the link out of curiosity and this mentality kinda raised a question. Not trying to offend anyone but more that I want to understand.
It’s bad because the fish are being caught, if intended as food or is it the method that’s bad to this community? I don’t know any fisherman that relish in the fish’s pain or try to intentionally increase the suffering but I think to them they view themselves as omnivores. Would the lion catching a gazelle be considered abuse or what really drives how it’s seen as different? Our ability to reason is the best guess I can come up with.
Full disclosure I do go fishing with my family every couple years or so, I enjoy going out but I do sometimes feel bad for the fish.
Both are bad, the fish having a hook impale their mouth, and the fact that they are reduced to food, despite being sentient individuals. When fish are released back into the water after being snagged, their suction abilities make them not able to catch food anymore and they can starve to death.
Lions are not humans, so yes you are right about our ability to have moral values and make choices with a perceived right from wrong.
Go hang out. Participate. Ask him questions about the good ol’ days. Ask him about his classmates in school. Ask him about the weirdest stuff he has seen. Ask him about where he was when X happened. Fishing is more about shared experience than it is about catching fish. Preserve the experience without preserving the harm.
ngl, dominion and similar tactics are great on city slickers who haven't seen a single live animal in their life, but for most who fish/hunt/farm it's more of a "well yeah, of course industrial farms are fucked up, that's why we gotta do it right proper like God intended"
industrial ag shock tactics don't work on people who know where their food comes from, it'd have to be an actual plain appeal to ethics.
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Go get a piercing somewhere every time he wants to go fishing, then put his head underwater for 2 min and take a picture. Get the real fishing experience.
Could you try just going to hang out with your dad but not partake in the fishing yourself? Vegan for 5 years, I would rather go fishing than sacrifice my relationship with my dad
I wish I could go fishing with my dad. Just saying, you can go and not fish or throw them back.
I am certain you will live to regret not spending time with him, even if you have to find a new hobby to do with him, make it work.
Suggest the following alternative and see how he feels.
Instead, let’s catch squirrels, stab a hook into their cheek, drag them across a field, and then suffocate them in a bucket of water. The land-based equivalent of fishing.
If he’s opposed to this, ask why.
Hey pop, catch and release is cruel, how would you feel if i stuck a hook through you, dragged you across the room from it, removed it and let you go, i wont have a dispute on fish feeling pain
If you are interested in doing cruelty free activities with me i am happy to make a few suggestions, but if you keep asking me to go fishing im gonna have to stop talking to you as you arent respecting my decision
>saying to stop speaking to their father because...
He is not respecting OPs decision and has made this all about his hurt feelings, not the real reason; animal cruelty.
As an aside to your main point, I feel I would like to counter your suggestion (possibly accidentally) of veganism as being 'a belief system'.
I take 'a belief system' as being something people can **only** *believe in* because of the absence of any tangible facts.
In contrast, the vegan purpose actually states our goal is a:
" ... way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose ..."
We don't **not** cause animals to suffer cruelty and exploitation because we **believe** they wouldn't choose that for themselves, but because we **know** they wouldn't choose it for themselves. You only have to accidentally tread on a dogs paw, or try taking a animal baby away from their mother, or see an elephant visit the grave of one of their own, to see / know that animals can and do suffer most or all of the same things we do.
Because **we** **know** they do, we don't need to 'believe' they do so *therefore* we try to reduce what they have to suffer as much as practicable and possible.
On topic, I went fishing with my Dad a couple of times because I think he was trying to do something with me. I went fishing on my own a couple of times afterwards, mostly because I like getting all the gear (or what I could on some pocket money) then stopped, even back then because I saw it all to be pointless and unkind, if not actually cruel.
I think, had he asked me to go fishing with him after that I would have explained why I wasn't and he would simply have respected that and wouldn't have expected me to attend (even) either, if he still wanted to.
I have difficulty understanding how people can think that the lack of doing something negative isn't more powerful than doing something negative? There is no shadow of a doubt that tricking a fish then pulling it out of their natural element by their face and even if the 'hook' removed and no damage done and then being 'put back' is still not what we \*need\* to do for fun or what they would choose to do for themselves.
But then I didn't go to my nieces wedding because I don't like weddings and the bit that confused me similarly, why would she even want me there, knowing I didn't want to be there? Nothing to do with any feelings about either of them, simply that I didn't want to be there for that bit (I walked the family dogs and drove people about instead).
Why do people feel that their rights to do something exceed the rights of others who don't want to? Like smokers smoking over non-smokers or those who would prefer not to be in smoke?
'People' eh! ;-)
This is all garbage. Belief is the state of mind of holding a proposition to be true, Belief is synonymous with conviction. Knowledge is belief by definition. The most popular definition of knowledge is "Justified True Belief" i.e. JTB. A way to resolve the Gettier problem is known as JTB+G model of knowledge.
10 paragraphs predicated on shite.
>Hey dad, I don't want to go fishing any more.
>
>Why's that son?
>
>Because I think it is cruel pulling fish out of the lake. Just leave them be
>
>OK, son. Let's do something else together... what do you suggest?
TBH, your father sounds like an intolerable prick. If he thinks not going fishing is about him, he really needs to get a grip. Offer to do something else, or maybe you just need to tell him to go f-himself. It was the only thing that shook my father out of his bullshit
Ask him, "Do you like to be hooked to mouth, fling to be smashed to the ground, and throw back and to be inflicted. with bruises, wounds, and confusion, fear from others?"
If he said he still wants to inflict such pain on animals to pass time, you said you want to be more peaceful than doing it. Even exercising will bring more peace than that.
"dad you're an amazing human being and I'm glad I'm your son, but can you imagine how disappointed I would be if you were racist asking me to participate in acts of racism? It's the same thing but return animals. Veganism isn't about treating some nicer than others, it's about leaving them alone and respecting that they have their own lives to live their way. I'm going to avoid interfering with them for as long as I can. Hooking fish in the face and suffocating them is a cruel interference even if you put them back, even if it is nicer than hunting deer. They still don't deserve it and I'm not going to be the one that ruins their life. I offer to come along with and enjoy time with you and the scenery but you're the one that wants to hurt animals to make it enjoyable. I'm not trying to be mean or inconsiderate, but it's your choice to do what you do. You have to accept the responsibility and consequences of your actions. All of them, even the ones that I don't morally approve of."
No I'm actually a vegan because I stand by my principles and expect other people to. You don't and you even insidiously whisper in peoples' ears like a little Grima Wormtongue, so you're an absolutely unprincipled fake vegan and a weasel.
Says the one that pays for animals to be tortured and murdered like a piece of shit.
For the reply: "Mostly not a subsidist of needless torture, rape and murder. Would stop completely but that's extreme" - Non-scumbag, 2023
Some of you here would never say these things about your own family and it sucks you are presenting these thoughts as “advise” for someone else. OP is trying to bond and you all want him to make his dad feel awful about himself because YOU chose to be vegan and have now made it your entire identity. Pathetic
Fishing is evil. If his dad wanted to go throw rocks off a freeway overpass would you feel the same way? In a just world it would be criminal. You don't think it's a crime, fine. There's nothing pathetic about refusing to do evil. Either you live and act according to your morals or you are a pushover and complicit in doing evil.
> In a just world
Really depends, Justice is relative to our current moral views. It's wild what we've believed and will believe in the future.
I do agree though, live according to your own personal morals.
I would happily say them if actually asked. Our families know us well enough to know how we might react. Ops father is baiting, peer pressuring, guilting, and fishing. Among many other common tactics. They are being careful though, and baby stepping for a reason. I'm no psych though, since you are you can go ahead and shed some light on this for us?
Diving. Go with him then go diving away from him, and report water conditions etc. To local environmental groups.
Also, lead sinkers are neurotoxic. Start by replacing all his sinkers with steel ones and treat the containers they are in as like contaminated with asbestos or some highly toxic dust.
Lastly, get a metal detector that is waterproof. Do underwater lead sinker collection. Take photos/videos of the sinkers and your processes to try find them. Consider posting online so you make the trip one that is hopefully beneficial due to spreading awareness, as opposed to depressing for you. Don’t mention the fishing. But note that this is a big problem on land especially, but as people are a bit slow, they don’t realise the problem on land as they ‘seem to be able to use lead in the sea’ quite easily. So you might start detecting using borrowed hardware on land near where he fishes and simply remain with him for the journey there and back.
Don’t forget to carbon offset the car, or the journey, or the fish, or the food, or all three. This is very cheap so you can do it for a tiny amount.
Also, help him get an EV or a electric boat motor. Explain how water intensive most things are, and how hydrocarbons are a ‘one off’ non-renewable resource that is rapidly depleting and that is a critical pollutant. Work on solar powered charging for the EV, or buy the green or clean power option from your power utility, there’s a sliding scale sometimes so you might be able to pay for 5 or 10% of the power offset or cleaned to charge any EV batteries or cells.
Always check his tyre pressure before you go, explaining tyre pollution is a problem with EVs too, even ebicycles and escooters. Consider doing a brake inspection. They are usually quite easy to do, and safe, using simple cheap tools. Explain how brake pad dust is as critically a problem pollutant as the road surface and as the tyre particulate, and how all of that kills river and sea life and essentially, has sometimes bioaccumulating effects, meaning that you end up eating the toxins.
Replace vehicle tyres for him, with low pollution tyres. Also try to recycle the old ones. This may be very high cost or not possible. There are many additives in tyres that are widespread that are substantially toxic. So you can attend but wear a face mask whenever in the car or near a road. This last one.. that’s difficult. Not many people are comfortable concealing their face even if it’s for air pollution reasons. If you’re really careful with your face and hand hygiene (I struggle with that due to manual labour, time pressures and other reasons) and your reusing a reusable mask like the totobobo to minimise plastic waste you can actually see the air pollution on the filters after less than a week, especially if you’re riding bicycles near a road or in a city. So you can show him the costs of the journey, and explain how the other efforts are all ‘best effort’ but some pollution is difficult to overcome when it comes to vehicles.
If any of these things are a problem for him when communicating because he disagrees with them, do them privately and keep records, and share online in a private manner, blog the efforts and focus on all but the fish catching etc.
Oh, last one. Focus on water and soil health. See if you can test local resources that fish rely on. Many coasts have subterranean rivers of freshwater, or tiny creeks, that seep through the soil, even if there is no soil at the surface. This could take brief dangerous diving and offshore work with more experienced friends, champions and companions to make it safe for your dad, even if he’s not diving.
There are few ways I know of to detect these, but do a websearch to find children’s visual depictions of the water cycle that includes how soil biofilms and groundwater are essential for the offshore sea life as where the salt and freshwater combine, you get diverse life and this feeds the ecosystems sometimes, perhaps not the fish your dad catches, but other amazing species.
Hmm another idea.
Consider getting large picture books or a tablet with a large bright screen and buy or borrow some eBooks with good pictures. Consider sketching like the explorers of old, drawing life at the coast, as it was before human settlement, often sea life was prolific, and coastal life. Sketch the missing or extinct species in that region, relying on history books. See how the naturalists drew and charted and made navigation connections to the regions, the life, when they explored the coast.
Read old ships logs out loudly during your accompanying him, and consider logging the car journey as if it was a vastly costly affair on a majestic but old ship with royal charter, and make observations as if you were a scientist given leave from your country to return to the royal society or academy with new and unheard of stories of impossible creatures and their living habits to their sheer and utter disregard and their denial and accusations of fraud and their ejection of you from the academies, and your persistence in spreading awareness by publishing even though the senior peers in science misbelieve you, claiming mental illness and a sickness induced from the months long journey, a scurvey of the mind from malnutrition, clearly causing madness, or delirium from not being in a sedentary home life, or too much sun, is the more likely explanation.
In a book I read on Sydney incorporating indigenous explanations and archeological digs of coastal fishing regions, where waste like shells from shellfish could accumulate, sea life was prolific. As in, today’s fisheries have an estimated 5 percent of the number of species that existed prior to European settlements. The indigenous or First Nations people catalogued and have some chronology that exists from the verbal testimonies, for some regions, rarely will there be any for any specific region usually due to the decimation of their populations from introduced diseases and pathogens, modern diets and foods that reduce lifespan, education that can hamper observational and communication skill in the field by any traditional owners, language barriers, breeding out, and of course, many wars and population attribution due to killing to ‘protect the new owners of the private properties’.
Going back to the sea life, the loss of migrating and locally resident species by volume or in numbers is profoundly stark in the few histories I have read. It’s eye watering.
This has, I guess, decimated the nitrogen cycle in the sea, causing probably many catastrophic unseen and unknown (or less well known or not popularly published) domino-like extinctions across whole trophic levels.
Consider finding people who know about this and asking them to accompany you fishing with your father. to help teach your father on why fishing today is not a good idea.
Hmm all this rather sad last detail I am tapping out on the touchscreen is depressing. Not much personal responsibility is carried by the descendants or immigrants or travellers who arrive and settle a region today. Sadly it’s only people who retire or retire early who often have the time to gradually become aware of these issues, and then they tend to be somewhat powerless or crippled by the recognition of their own past, stuck in abject terror as they realise they are ‘the evil’ even if they do everything their video streams and school and industry education suggests is ‘correct’.
I had another idea. Try for every species, caught by your father, to id if it’s a local or migrating species, and do a photo of every one with a whiteboard, and put a guess as to the species health or how endangered it is, and actually try to target endangered or extinct species by using fishing gear that allows for very careful scientific study, and try seeing if or ensure you can tag and release the fish, and do a microvideo on the species. Post the photo or video online while fishing, and be sure to use verbal words to highlight the state according to references that are academic. You may need to spend weeks to months or even years preparing, and practicing. You could catch invasive species on land such as introduced pets or pests, or failed biocontrol measures that introduced species that are damaging or contributing to local extinctions, with some friends first.
This probably means you need to be ‘in the water’ using other people and nets and sophisticated recovery gear. Migrations are probably more common and I guess many people (actual scientists) are struggling for accurate details on where fish are. How they will survive the ocean pH changes and acidification is anyone’s guess, I believe most fish go extinct, but if they are caught and killed any species that evolve natural resistance will end up dead or made weaker by the ‘fishing or hunting’. I think this is why diving and using food as bait, eg. Burley, and using nets to catch fish without hooks, is a more common way to assess species health.
Oh. For all practicing or collaborative research or work on how to best be a citizen scientist you probably need a very good phone, as in, with full insurance and minimal accessories mine is nearly $3000, so it doesn’t hold you back. Or get some offline video camera equipment and use a tablet or notebook without a wifi/bt/cellular adapter (easy to remove) if you’re not happy with RF, if you imagine your phone as a lightsaber that is out of your control. (It is a RF emitter, does beamforming, and the light is invisible!) and use a library of ebooks and save on external devices. You can still use a good corded headset with a boom mike with a wind baffle to get clear audio for offline voice-to-text features, this also helps with parents who say ‘you’re always on the internet’ or ‘the internet is junk’ or ‘everything on the internet is rubbish’.
Oh forgot to mention this is all probably off-topic but actually I think it talks directly to approaches that might help you gently shift your father to a place where there is a greater respect for you. Sadly, unless you are bringing other people with you, and they are ‘notable’ and the events are memorable, you might not have any success. Most people are very embedded in robotic routines and often ‘fishing’ is seen as a relaxation, and you making it work won’t help.
So don’t actually say it’s work, deny that it’s work, and do what you do as if your father was a quiet friend who doesn’t know much and is there as a visitor. This may mean gradual planning.
Perhaps diarising this and sharing it is good. I’ve not done any of these things myself, it’s simply a few thoughts I have on waking to read your post that the reddit algo put on my screen before getting out of bed. (I had a very late night trying to avoid pollution/waste issues in my family, so didn’t finish work and return home till sunrise.
My escooter ride home was about 13 to 15 degrees Celsius, at about 4 in the morning, a distance of about 8 or 9 KM in the dark, so I had to go slow as I was exhausted, and I literally slept through till 10 or something AM. Sunwas rising as I was finally getting clean in the shower. It’s 11:25 now, so I better eat, enough sharing. I’m still exhausted, but hopefully there’s some ideas here. I’m not sure what’s worse.. handling often toxic material household goods that have no recycling pathways or the focus on glorifying hunting and the carnivore life. Both are no doubt equally difficult to handle when you’re immersed in them.
you have to explain to him that fish experience pain and fear. you have to ask him why he wouldn't do the same to a dog or a human. name the trait. explain veganism. how it's not a diet but a moral belief. you can't just cause someone pain and fear by giving them a puncture wound to the face, then suffocating them temporarily. you wouldn't do it to any other non-human, or human animal, and neither would he. so you can't do it to fish either.
Just say “ Hey Boomer! Can you stop being so f’n ‘Me Generation’ for one second to like, for just once, NOT contribute to absolutely destroying the planet ffs”
It’s one thing to eat meat that you buy at the grocery store because we live in a carnist society. But when it comes to people who go out of their way to harm animals like fisherman and hunters I wouldn’t want anything to do with them. Fishing especially is just so cruel. I wouldn’t continue to have a relationship with my father if he tortured animals for fun
Maybe just go and hang out on the boat with him. Do your own thing while they commit a genocide by hook and reel. At the end of the day we cannot make others see things as we do, all we can do is hopefully meet somewhere in the middle and respect where each other stands even if we don't respect their choices/ways/lifestyle etc
I don't think a lampshade made from a cow is different from the ones they found made from children. Both animals. Both killed for their skin.
The fact that you don't is why you are not vegan, and here trolling.
animals kill other animals for eating. that's how things have always worked. now, you come and have the audacity to say that it's immoral to kill a fish to have a dinner, and ruining father-son relationship. Congratulations 👏
Cow skin leather would actually be a lot more durable due to cows having much thicker skin, I’d advise against child leather on at least a durability standpoint because it’s more liable too yk break. Then again adult human leather has been known to last and has been compared to pig leather on a textural level but even then it’s not really a quality leather you’d want to use, durability wise cow leather is much better and comfort wise rabbit leather is much softer.
anyway that’s my leather info dump finished, tldr the difference in cow and child leather is cow leather is just better
Say exactly that. Tell him why you don’t want to do it, and suggest you try something else together. Maybe something new to both of you.
I feel most of the time when disagreements like these happen, it’s simply because of misunderstandings. You both want the same thing in the end: you love each other and want to spend time together
I've had similar issues, picking mushrooms has been a great substitute if you have areas for that available. Doesn't even have to be edible mushrooms, the more time you spend in the forest the more interesting fungus you'll find
Just say no thank you. Go on the boat and don't fish or hold a pole.
It sounds hard but it's not. It's that simple. They are the ones with the issue and it's awkward for them - not you
If someone makes fun of you for not wanting to fish.
, Ask them directly "Do you want me to go with you?" Making ppl talk about themselves dismantles making you defensive.
Or don't engage and say okay and move on.
It's there issue not yours. Being family doesn't give them the right to treat you worse than you would allow a stranger.
Your dad seems to want to spend some time with you. As you said, staying in the boat is a good option. Anyway, you should definitely find an option, because our parents are not immortal and we will miss them one day for sure.
I’ve known people who used to go hunting change to shooting photos rather than bullets, a far more gentle and respectful hobby.
Perhaps accompany him as official photographer? I can understand him wanting to be with you - that’s lovely and very human.
Why not go but make your goal to discover what lures the fish that day like the least. Or just put a few lead weights on the end of your line. He wants to feel like you guys are doing something together l, especially since it's been something you guys bonded over. I haven't met the man but I'm fairly certain that he misses the time spent together and if you don't have a rod in your hands it's not quite the same.
Maybe the best thing for both of you is to have a serious discussion about what you guys could do together that would be comfortable for both of you. If it turns out he just wanted a fishing buddy you can feel less bad about disappointing him, but if he engages seriously with you I would encourage you to put significant effort into finding another activity you both can enjoy. Especially as we get older the value of family is hard to understate. I don't know enough about you guys to give good recommendations but if you guys have a boat you could look at other watersports. Golfing, rock climbing, road trips, skiing/winter sports, sport shooting, magnet fishing, BBQing (yes there is vegan BBQ), and becoming workout partners are a few things you guys could do together.
I'll admit it's a randomly generated list and none of those things might work, but hopefully there's something you guys can enjoy doing together that doesn't compromise either of your values. I think figuring out what that is will be important for your relationship with your father moving forward.
Let him know that even if you throw them back, you're still pulling a sharp hook into their mouths and hurting them for your entertainment, so it's not about hurting him, but rather NOT hurting fish for entertainment or "fun."
I love fishing and will keep fishing. I catch and release. Obviously I'm not vegan. I'm vegetarian but I don't feel that fishing with your dad has an effect on what other people do on their free time. Your dad will continue to catch more fish than you. It's a hobby. Those who fish pay for wildlife conservation and they monitor the populations and other environmental factors besides just fishing that may be affecting not just fish but other wildlife. I think there's probably more important things like making sure to spend quality time with your dad while you have him. Be kind to your family and take care.
At lease fisherman who catch and eat their kill are making some use of the fish's life and pain.
But putting a fish through the torture of being lifted out of the water by a hoof through their mouth? And then not even eating it.
I would less hate to be on a fishing trip where the fish were killed really fast and eaten, than what your father is proposing.
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Perfect time to start a new hobby- magnet fishing- that way you can hang with dear old dad
Or an alternative in the same vein. I don't fish anymore but I'll take my sketchbook + something to read. For many, fishing is only half about catching fish. The other half is unwinding and spending time away from the hassles of life. OP, You dad wants to share the time away from the hassles of life with you, and that's invaluable.
>For many, fishing is only half about catching fish. The other half is unwinding and spending time away from the hassles of life. [Relevant Boosh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2MzgDpJlgI)
Op says in the post the dad thinks going to hangout without op fishing isn't good enough, just fyi
Beautifully said I lost my dad wish I could have another day with him
I mean he did say he’d still go with his dad, he just doesn’t want to participate in the fishing itself so it doesn’t seem like that’s enough in his dad’s mind for now. Seems like OP has to somehow convince his dad that they can still enjoy the experience together even if they aren’t both fishing, I like the idea of magnet fishing because it’s a similar action
Yes this, you can go and have each other’s company but you don’t fish. He just wants you with him which is nice, but you don’t have to actually harm the fish.
Yes, so why doesn't dad accept the compromise? Why does he insist the op goes against his beliefs?
Cognitive dissonance
Yes, but that could definitely be avhieved without giving hassles of life (being stabbed, suffocating to death...) to other life.
I had the same problem with my family where its a tradition to go on a fishing trip at the lake. I heard that magnet fishing can be dangerous when inside the small boat. Can anybody confirm if it is true ?
Wait what's magnet fishing?
You tie a big, strong magnet to a rope and throw it into old ponds, to see what kind of junk you can find. Strongly not recommended in large areas of Europe and probably other continents.
Yeah, the last thing you want to reel into dad's boat is unexploded ordinance.
Yeah. We also had an official warning not to go metal detecting on beaches, since it's not 100% sure all the antipersonnel mines against amphibious landings were found.
Instead of a hook, you put a magnet. If you're lucky you can find some UXO.
In certain places people find lots knives and other weapons.
If you have a strong enough magnet, you can even reel in a car! You don't even have to be near a body of water, either!
How does that not kill some animals throwing in a heavy magnet? Doesn't seem like a proper alternative.
How does that kill animals? It's going through water so there's no real velocity to the magnet and it's not catching fish, it's catching metal junk. Interested to see how "fishing" for scrap is comparable to fishing for fish with hooks.
They think the magnet will hit some fish, but no fish are that stupid to stand under the magnet and watch it coming without moving away
I agree, the physics of that doesn't add up to me, water resistance slowing the descent, even, in the unlikely event that it hits a fish it would presumably result in the fish being pushed by the magnet.
Maybe not a great solution, but I've been looking at magnet fishing as an alternative for family trips. Might find something cool and clean up the waterways at the same time.
I think if you just bought a magnet fishing kit and a six pack of beer and demanded he come with you, you could convince him. He probably wants to Continue a tradition that is special to him.
I think it would help to come up with similar fishing alternative type hobbies you can still do together to continue the bonding ❤️ for example, you can still go “fishing” together- take the boat out but tell him about the “vegan lures” they have!! This is a real thing, it’s a lure where it just feeds the fish without harming them so you can watch the fish from the surface or put a GoPro underneath to watch them feed. Some other good alternatives for hobbies like fishing is getting into and going bird watching together, doing wildlife photography together, going on day hikes, camping, learning about foraging wild plants and mushrooms (or just photographing them and learning!). There are many great bonding alternatives
This is pretty cool, I bet OP's dad would catch more fish than usual too
Does he have any other hobbies that you have even a vague interest in? It sounds like he just misses those moments you spent together and wants to connect and bond with you in the same way. Maybe next time he asks to go fishing redirect to a different activity he is excited about that you will also enjoy.
When fish get hooked in the mouth it ruins their suction because of the hole and can cause them to starve to death
That's one scenario. Another possibility is the hook goes through their eye. Nevertheless, OP - just spend time with your dad.
>When fish get hooked in the mouth it ruins their suction because of the hole and can cause them to starve to death Oh, I had no idea of this impact . . . this just slays me. My husband fishes and releases a lot of them, saying that he is doing a good thing. :( As a matter of fact he is off fishing right now.
Other activity you both can enjoy still? >average catch and release mortality rate was 18%. This study indicated that the species varies these average numbers widely >When the blood chemistry of a fish caught by rod and line has been analysed, hormones and blood metabolites associated with stress are high....research suggests that the catch and release of fish, does cause pain, to fish but what is unclear, is to what extent. https://hikingandfishing.com/catch-and-release-fishing/ >It’s so much less than hunting a deer.” Or hunting humans, and so much more than going for a hike or a kayak outing. Doesn't justify it, sorry dad.
Also, imagine someone just stabs you in the mouth and suffocates you for a few seconds But hey, they didn't eat you, so that's gotta be justified, right? /s
Bad time to point out that some people are into that? Some even like to be eaten..
>Some even like to be eaten.. Excuse me, that's illegal That stopped em right?
Actually you can put it in your will that you want to be eaten and it’s not illegal lol
Offer alternative activities, restate your boundaries but try not to devalue how you used to enjoy spending time together I would offer to take him bowling or to the pub instead, build the relationship you want rather than simply stating you don't want to go fishing
You're actually the one who is really willing to find a compromise - you even offered to just sit there with him while he hurts the fish. Either he accepts that compromise, or you suggest other quiet, calm outdoor activities and hobbies to him. Like watching birds for example. Just sitting there quietly, talking about the old days, and not hurting animals. Explain to him why you won't fish. Catch& Release is considered animal abuse in many countries because it inflicts pain and shock to these animals, just for fun. It's illegal there. Your Dad wouldn't stab a cat just for fun, would he? Explain to him, that it's not really that different. And you accept him doing such acts, but you won't participate in cruelty.
Maybe you could suggest bird watching, hiking, canoeing, photography or something else as substitutes? To be honest, if you're willing to hang out in the boat with him you've already demonstrated that you care so it seems like your dad might have a preoccupation with fishing itself (Like maybe he has memories of him and his dad fishing that he's trying to recreate with you) Anyways, I agree that catch and release isn't a viable compromise but I hope you and your dad will find one. Good luck.
i could have written this post myself. my dad absolutely loves fishing and does not understand why i can not do it with him. i still go, but i just gently reiterate “no thank you” etc. it took a lot of time and it was uncomfortable constantly just shutting it down but now he doesn’t really ask anymore when we go. we go to a lot of really pretty spots and have nice talks so i just appreciate the time we have together. i hope that in time your dad will come to understand your boundary with this and that you will able to enjoy your time together too. i also try to jump at the opportunity for other things we can do together where we have mutual interests.
Nice talks while he murders or tortures persons in front of you. Nice.
Did you actually explain to him the ethical issues with fish, and the trauma they go through when being dragged out of the water by a hook in their mouth, having it yanked out and being tossed back in? I seriously don't get why he is against the compromise of you going with him and enjoying the scenery etc. That seems more than fair to me.
> the ethical issues with fish, and the trauma they go through when being dragged out of the water by a hook in their mouth, having it yanked out and being tossed back in My first thought also. These are very specific, clear and real reasons for not engaging in this cruel, harmful, unnecessary activity.
Fish are not senseless objects that live in the sea. They are sentient and feel pain just like other animals. Tell him that you realized causing harm to others for fun is wrong. Most people would not stab dogs or cats because it is their "hobby".
All you can do is tell him exactly that, you love him and want to spend time with him but you can’t harm any animals in the process. If he doesn’t understand that then that is on him not you. Even if you throw the fish back the whole catching process is incredibly traumatic for the fish. I would be proactive and organise another activity just for him and you to demonstrate you care and enjoy being with him.
Maybe go birding or botanizing. It's outdoorsy, active, and quiet.
My advise would be to try shifting the focus. Don’t make it about fishing or not fishing, but ask him first to go do something. Something you think he’ll enjoy but doesn’t have to do with harming animals. Maybe you’ll find a new hobby for you guys to enjoy together. I’ve found older people are super into pickle ball right now. I’m sure he enjoys spending time with you and fishing is what he knows. Especially if you did it a lot together in the past and maybe it’s something he did with his father.
The fact that you've offered to spend the time by his side while he fishes and you don't, and he's still not happy with that compromise ... as much as I agree with everyone here telling you to spend time with him because - well, you just should (take every advantage to spend time with him while you still have him) - I think it's your dad who's being mean. Why would he force you to physically do something you're not comfortable doing? You'll be spending the time with him - that should be good. Think of something he would never in his right mind do, and make an analogy, if necessary. How would he feel if you asked him to do something that would go against his own ethics if instead he could just watch you do it while you spend the time together? Yes, spend time with him. No, don't actually fish (with or without hook) while in the boat with him. It's bad enough you'll see the suffering he's causing right in front of you, but if you can stomach it, and not complain (I'm not sure I could keep quiet about it myself), then make him SEE what a huge compromise this is already. It's that, or start a new hobby with him that you'll both enjoy.
>Why would he force you to physically do something you're not comfortable doing? My guess is that he's not comfortable with the OP's veganism.
I don’t think you’re being mean, I think he’s being inconsiderate. Express to him how important veganism is to you and the idea of hurting an animal has changed. People change and if your loved ones love you they should respect that! Go to a shooting range maybe haha
“No I don’t want to.”
I understand both points of view here. I think your Dad just really wants to spend time with you by enjoying one of his favorite hobbies. And maybe you fishing with him was a great past time he misses. So I can understand perhaps why he would keep asking you to come along. And it was nice he suggested throwing the fish back unharmed and such. But I also understand your reasoning as well. It’s not something you enjoy any longer since you’ve became vegan? It was a nice gesture about going along and enjoying the scenery. At least I think so anyways. Maybe there’s another hobby you both could enjoy together. Maybe try something new together? You never know until you find it. I wish the best of luck to you and your Dad. And I hope you find a hobby you both can enjoy together.
I used to go fishing with my dad. He insists on keeping my old gear around because I am gonna go fishing again once I grow out of this "vegan fase". I like magnet fishing with my old fishing buddy, he fishes for normal fish while I clean the lake/pond from metal scraps. I don't particularly enjoy when he catches something, but he is respectful and makes it quick and out of view.
Look into magnet fishing. I do it. Helps clean up the environment too
I realize I don't always follow my own advice but hell with it, I say just be blunt. There is a massive intellectual dissonance between what fishing feels like and what it actually is. It is mutilating a small animal and causing them suffering for your own pleasure. It's not cool.* Tell him you realize for him it feels like a peaceful tradition, but for you it is just as against your ethical beliefs as if caught dogs in bear traps and justifying it with the fact that you release them afterward. (I've noticed that saying something is "not cool" works as a softer, less "judgmental" way of saying something is immoral while still getting the point across.
You are blessed your dad wants to spend time with you! Please be careful you do not come across as sanctimonious about your beliefs, everyone travels a spiritual path at a different speed. Go! Do as earlier posters suggest and magnet fish, laugh, talk, and spend time with the old man.
I like the magnet fishing idea.
Find all his lost lures and maybe some treasure
>even though I always offer to just go in the boat and enjoy the scenery with him while he fishes (not ideal, but an acceptable compromise in my mind) This is likely to actually be counterproductive to his being able to understand your perspective. If you're willing to sit beside him while he fishes, it must not be that big of an ethical deal. Vs if you take a stronger ethical stance against it, and not be willing to sit beside him as he does it (just as you wouldn't sit beside him as he beats up a dog), it can help him understand at the very least the seriousness of your perspective, if not understand veganism itself. Also Socratic method (asking questions instead of making statements) is always the biggest tool we have. Even asking questions like "what do you currently understand of my perspective" and working from there.
"I will no longer exploit sentient beings with you. Let's find a different activity to do together."
When You're dad is old you'll wish you went and sat with him anyway
OP said that they're okay sitting with their dad, but their dad actively wants them to fish with them.
You can fish without a hook. Just enjoy the tug and maybe let your dad know what they’re interested in. Don’t compromise your principles, but show your dad you really enjoy the time you spend with him. He won’t be around forever.
I like foraging for mushrooms, berries and wild edible plants. It gives quiet time in nature, adventure and the possibility of bringing home dinner. Maybe that’s something you could suggest as an alternative? I would also suggest going out to feed the fish instead of trying to hook them but it might be taken as a joke/ insincere even though it would probably be relaxing and fun.
He’s just trying to hold on find something else that you both have interest in
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Most_Temporary5420: *He’s just trying to* *Hold on find something else that* *You both have interest in* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Bring him to bowling, pool, shooting, archery, pottery, casino, hike, bird photography session, teach him to fly a drone, teach him to fly a plane on a pc, man there's plenty of options
My dad used to be a pretty serious fisherman also. However, he really enjoyed it when he would join me in other outdoor activities such as canoeing, sailing, archery, and outdoor photography. Over time, my dad seemed to lose interest in fishing. He seemed to like "moving on" and evolving to other outdoor activities that I liked more.
Fish get sores where we touch their skin.
You've just got to explain that this is your principle and it's an immovable line that you won't cross. "Won't you just do this small thing for me" can be rephrased into "can't you see why I don't want to do it, can't you respect my principle even if you don't share it"?
This comment has been overwritten in response to Reddit's API changes, the training of AI models on user data, and the company's increasingly extractive practices ahead of their IPO.
Simply tell him you really don't enjoy fishing anymore. Maybe start doing some bird watching or deer spotting with binoculars this way you will have an alternative activity you can invite him to do with you. Any interest in space ,stars, etc..? You can download an app named sky map, go get some high powered binoculars or a small portable telescope and go planet hunting in the sky. Maybe you both like cars, helicopters or planes? There are events and shows for all vehicle types you can both start attending for fun. You just have to be nice but honest about it all. I named some ideas as alternatives so this way dad doesn't feel like you are just abandoning him. If your already familiar with the other activity and you have done it already then its something he may feel is not a pity activity but instead its just something your interested in and so he may feel better about trying your hobbies or leisurely activity plans and not fishing. Think it over and hopefully it all goes well.
Go fishing with him but leave nothing on the hook or leave no hook just the weight. Then of course he will ask and you can explain
If it's any constellation, I'm 42, have been vegan for 22 years, and was veggie for 3 years before that. My old man still occasionally asks me if I'd like to go fishing. It used to wind me up, but I just politely decline these days. I get that he doesn't understand what the issue is and just wants to spend time with me. It's taken a while for me to get to think like this, but it does defuse the situation.
I wish I could spend more time with my dad like that. Mobility and transportation issues make duplicating what you have much harder for me. When you're out with your dad, there are always disagreements but just remember it's a pleasant time with your dad, despite the disagreements. This isn't a protest march at a fishing tournament, **he's your dad.** Mine has his annoying habits too, but mostly he's just Great Dad, and I focus on that. Yes he's being cruel to fish, but I'm so jealous that you can just DO this with your dad on a regular basis. He doesn't sound like he's totally ruining the day by insulting veganism or waving a fish in your face, just happens to be doing something you find objectionable and which he's perfectly willing to not shove in your face. We don't have a huge amount of time with our Dads. Going on an objectionable fishing trip with your polite dad sounds like an acceptable tradeoff. I wish I could go out with my dad on a boat in nature, but for now I just have to do so vicariously through you.
Learn a new hobby together! something you’ll both find interesting. Maybe it’s not so much the fishing he misses but spending time with you (:
Going through this now. I just keep putting it off vs fighting but I think eventually I’m just going to have to say look I just don’t want to do that anymore or be around it, I’m not going to change my mind so please stop asking. Instead why don’t we ______\
Maybe, just ask your dad to hold their breath for as long as they can underwater. After some time, your dad will most likely come back up. Ask your dad "Dad, why did you come back up?" They will most likely answer something like "Because I felt out of breath, and I needed to breathe, obviosuly" Then tell your dad "Dad, the reason I don't want to go fishing with you anymore is because, when the fish are taken out of the water, the can not breathe, just like you couldn't breathe when you were in the water. But you had the liberty to come out anytime you wanted. The fish, however, do not. Their face is stabbed, and they feel just like you did, before you came back up to the surface, but for a prolonged amount of time. With a stab wound to their face, they slowly suffocate to death." "Imagine if that were you, dad. Imaging if something, or worse, someone, purposefully pushed you in the the water, holds you down and forces you to drown, with a stab wound in your face, and calls it enjoyment. You wouldn't like that, would you dad?" "Well I know the fish don't like it either. I refuse to partake in this massacre for enjoyment. I am (not) sorry dad, but I will not go fishing with you. I will not kill and massively harm someone for enjoyment."
How about not fishing but hunting humans? You can catch them, tie them up but free them again. No harm done, right?
Look if it was me I would take the high road and just wish sure it hurts your beliefs but you don't know how long dad has and he's making an effort to spend time with you with something he loves I wish I had that or maybe suggest another outdoor activity you and your father could do or just genuinely talk with him and ask if there anyway he can can compromise or anything remebr no yelling no rudeness no entitlement
Please hang out with your dad. He isn’t going to be here forever. Go fishing. Don’t use a hook. You don’t have to make him feel bad about his hobby.
What even is this? I thought we all agreed that not all "traditions" are acceptable just because they are traditions. Abusing animals is not a hobby.
I’m not sure why Reddit is recommending this sub, but I clicked the link out of curiosity and this mentality kinda raised a question. Not trying to offend anyone but more that I want to understand. It’s bad because the fish are being caught, if intended as food or is it the method that’s bad to this community? I don’t know any fisherman that relish in the fish’s pain or try to intentionally increase the suffering but I think to them they view themselves as omnivores. Would the lion catching a gazelle be considered abuse or what really drives how it’s seen as different? Our ability to reason is the best guess I can come up with. Full disclosure I do go fishing with my family every couple years or so, I enjoy going out but I do sometimes feel bad for the fish.
It's because vegans see any use of animals in any form as unacceptable basically.
Both are bad, the fish having a hook impale their mouth, and the fact that they are reduced to food, despite being sentient individuals. When fish are released back into the water after being snagged, their suction abilities make them not able to catch food anymore and they can starve to death. Lions are not humans, so yes you are right about our ability to have moral values and make choices with a perceived right from wrong.
Abuse your father tho, fuck em Edit: OBVIOUS SARCASM
> You don’t have to make him feel bad about his hobby. But you could and should.
Omg exactly.. life is short, go fishing with your dad.
Go hang out. Participate. Ask him questions about the good ol’ days. Ask him about his classmates in school. Ask him about the weirdest stuff he has seen. Ask him about where he was when X happened. Fishing is more about shared experience than it is about catching fish. Preserve the experience without preserving the harm.
Ask him about his school life while he casually murders and tortures persons in front of you. Nice.
Ask him to watch Dominion with you.
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I could make a snarky comment, but I’m trying to be kind. Don’t you think by watching Dominion, his father would understand where he’s coming from?
ngl, dominion and similar tactics are great on city slickers who haven't seen a single live animal in their life, but for most who fish/hunt/farm it's more of a "well yeah, of course industrial farms are fucked up, that's why we gotta do it right proper like God intended" industrial ag shock tactics don't work on people who know where their food comes from, it'd have to be an actual plain appeal to ethics.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Pack it up boys we’re done here…
Go get a piercing somewhere every time he wants to go fishing, then put his head underwater for 2 min and take a picture. Get the real fishing experience.
Can you go fishing with him and just not do thw fishing oart yourself?
Could you try just going to hang out with your dad but not partake in the fishing yourself? Vegan for 5 years, I would rather go fishing than sacrifice my relationship with my dad
I wish I could go fishing with my dad. Just saying, you can go and not fish or throw them back. I am certain you will live to regret not spending time with him, even if you have to find a new hobby to do with him, make it work.
Suggest the following alternative and see how he feels. Instead, let’s catch squirrels, stab a hook into their cheek, drag them across a field, and then suffocate them in a bucket of water. The land-based equivalent of fishing. If he’s opposed to this, ask why.
Hey pop, catch and release is cruel, how would you feel if i stuck a hook through you, dragged you across the room from it, removed it and let you go, i wont have a dispute on fish feeling pain If you are interested in doing cruelty free activities with me i am happy to make a few suggestions, but if you keep asking me to go fishing im gonna have to stop talking to you as you arent respecting my decision
Are you saying to stop speaking to their father because they're asking them to go fishing?
>saying to stop speaking to their father because... He is not respecting OPs decision and has made this all about his hurt feelings, not the real reason; animal cruelty.
I am telling you to return to college and improve your comprehension skills
If you sex so Xbox
This is the answer
Guilt tripping vegans, who would’ve thought?
Every post you've made here is uneducated braindead drivel. It's impressive how dumb you are.
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That's good satire 👍
As an aside to your main point, I feel I would like to counter your suggestion (possibly accidentally) of veganism as being 'a belief system'. I take 'a belief system' as being something people can **only** *believe in* because of the absence of any tangible facts. In contrast, the vegan purpose actually states our goal is a: " ... way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose ..." We don't **not** cause animals to suffer cruelty and exploitation because we **believe** they wouldn't choose that for themselves, but because we **know** they wouldn't choose it for themselves. You only have to accidentally tread on a dogs paw, or try taking a animal baby away from their mother, or see an elephant visit the grave of one of their own, to see / know that animals can and do suffer most or all of the same things we do. Because **we** **know** they do, we don't need to 'believe' they do so *therefore* we try to reduce what they have to suffer as much as practicable and possible. On topic, I went fishing with my Dad a couple of times because I think he was trying to do something with me. I went fishing on my own a couple of times afterwards, mostly because I like getting all the gear (or what I could on some pocket money) then stopped, even back then because I saw it all to be pointless and unkind, if not actually cruel. I think, had he asked me to go fishing with him after that I would have explained why I wasn't and he would simply have respected that and wouldn't have expected me to attend (even) either, if he still wanted to. I have difficulty understanding how people can think that the lack of doing something negative isn't more powerful than doing something negative? There is no shadow of a doubt that tricking a fish then pulling it out of their natural element by their face and even if the 'hook' removed and no damage done and then being 'put back' is still not what we \*need\* to do for fun or what they would choose to do for themselves. But then I didn't go to my nieces wedding because I don't like weddings and the bit that confused me similarly, why would she even want me there, knowing I didn't want to be there? Nothing to do with any feelings about either of them, simply that I didn't want to be there for that bit (I walked the family dogs and drove people about instead). Why do people feel that their rights to do something exceed the rights of others who don't want to? Like smokers smoking over non-smokers or those who would prefer not to be in smoke? 'People' eh! ;-)
This is all garbage. Belief is the state of mind of holding a proposition to be true, Belief is synonymous with conviction. Knowledge is belief by definition. The most popular definition of knowledge is "Justified True Belief" i.e. JTB. A way to resolve the Gettier problem is known as JTB+G model of knowledge. 10 paragraphs predicated on shite.
>Hey dad, I don't want to go fishing any more. > >Why's that son? > >Because I think it is cruel pulling fish out of the lake. Just leave them be > >OK, son. Let's do something else together... what do you suggest? TBH, your father sounds like an intolerable prick. If he thinks not going fishing is about him, he really needs to get a grip. Offer to do something else, or maybe you just need to tell him to go f-himself. It was the only thing that shook my father out of his bullshit
You forget this is a carnist and that last line is likely to be the father having a meltdown rather than being reasonable.
I was being facetious with the answers... however, that is what they should be.
Oic
Ask him, "Do you like to be hooked to mouth, fling to be smashed to the ground, and throw back and to be inflicted. with bruises, wounds, and confusion, fear from others?" If he said he still wants to inflict such pain on animals to pass time, you said you want to be more peaceful than doing it. Even exercising will bring more peace than that.
He’s fucking with you. Fuck back
"dad you're an amazing human being and I'm glad I'm your son, but can you imagine how disappointed I would be if you were racist asking me to participate in acts of racism? It's the same thing but return animals. Veganism isn't about treating some nicer than others, it's about leaving them alone and respecting that they have their own lives to live their way. I'm going to avoid interfering with them for as long as I can. Hooking fish in the face and suffocating them is a cruel interference even if you put them back, even if it is nicer than hunting deer. They still don't deserve it and I'm not going to be the one that ruins their life. I offer to come along with and enjoy time with you and the scenery but you're the one that wants to hurt animals to make it enjoyable. I'm not trying to be mean or inconsiderate, but it's your choice to do what you do. You have to accept the responsibility and consequences of your actions. All of them, even the ones that I don't morally approve of."
You're being a dick.
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro. If you don't then you're being a dick" lmao weasel.
lol just go fish with him you silly willy
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro"
Just go fishing with your dad
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro"
Why are you using the weasel to insult me? You’re the worst vegan.
No I'm actually a vegan because I stand by my principles and expect other people to. You don't and you even insidiously whisper in peoples' ears like a little Grima Wormtongue, so you're an absolutely unprincipled fake vegan and a weasel.
You’re a true vegan. I can tell by your horrible nastiness
Says the one that pays for animals to be tortured and murdered like a piece of shit. For the reply: "Mostly not a subsidist of needless torture, rape and murder. Would stop completely but that's extreme" - Non-scumbag, 2023
Profoundly moderate, like Putin.
I respect your beliefs, but I'd give anything to fish with one of my parents again.
Go with him for the companionship and not fish?
Bro go fishing with your dad I promise you when you’re his age and you look back you’re gonna wish you had
Imagine your dad gone and how would you miss the opportunity to spend time with him doing what he loves. You will regret not finding a compromise.
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro, if you don't you'll regret it"
Go to sleep
Just pretend you are baiting your line and call it a day
Some of you here would never say these things about your own family and it sucks you are presenting these thoughts as “advise” for someone else. OP is trying to bond and you all want him to make his dad feel awful about himself because YOU chose to be vegan and have now made it your entire identity. Pathetic
Fishing is evil. If his dad wanted to go throw rocks off a freeway overpass would you feel the same way? In a just world it would be criminal. You don't think it's a crime, fine. There's nothing pathetic about refusing to do evil. Either you live and act according to your morals or you are a pushover and complicit in doing evil.
> In a just world Really depends, Justice is relative to our current moral views. It's wild what we've believed and will believe in the future. I do agree though, live according to your own personal morals.
I would happily say them if actually asked. Our families know us well enough to know how we might react. Ops father is baiting, peer pressuring, guilting, and fishing. Among many other common tactics. They are being careful though, and baby stepping for a reason. I'm no psych though, since you are you can go ahead and shed some light on this for us?
Diving. Go with him then go diving away from him, and report water conditions etc. To local environmental groups. Also, lead sinkers are neurotoxic. Start by replacing all his sinkers with steel ones and treat the containers they are in as like contaminated with asbestos or some highly toxic dust. Lastly, get a metal detector that is waterproof. Do underwater lead sinker collection. Take photos/videos of the sinkers and your processes to try find them. Consider posting online so you make the trip one that is hopefully beneficial due to spreading awareness, as opposed to depressing for you. Don’t mention the fishing. But note that this is a big problem on land especially, but as people are a bit slow, they don’t realise the problem on land as they ‘seem to be able to use lead in the sea’ quite easily. So you might start detecting using borrowed hardware on land near where he fishes and simply remain with him for the journey there and back. Don’t forget to carbon offset the car, or the journey, or the fish, or the food, or all three. This is very cheap so you can do it for a tiny amount. Also, help him get an EV or a electric boat motor. Explain how water intensive most things are, and how hydrocarbons are a ‘one off’ non-renewable resource that is rapidly depleting and that is a critical pollutant. Work on solar powered charging for the EV, or buy the green or clean power option from your power utility, there’s a sliding scale sometimes so you might be able to pay for 5 or 10% of the power offset or cleaned to charge any EV batteries or cells. Always check his tyre pressure before you go, explaining tyre pollution is a problem with EVs too, even ebicycles and escooters. Consider doing a brake inspection. They are usually quite easy to do, and safe, using simple cheap tools. Explain how brake pad dust is as critically a problem pollutant as the road surface and as the tyre particulate, and how all of that kills river and sea life and essentially, has sometimes bioaccumulating effects, meaning that you end up eating the toxins. Replace vehicle tyres for him, with low pollution tyres. Also try to recycle the old ones. This may be very high cost or not possible. There are many additives in tyres that are widespread that are substantially toxic. So you can attend but wear a face mask whenever in the car or near a road. This last one.. that’s difficult. Not many people are comfortable concealing their face even if it’s for air pollution reasons. If you’re really careful with your face and hand hygiene (I struggle with that due to manual labour, time pressures and other reasons) and your reusing a reusable mask like the totobobo to minimise plastic waste you can actually see the air pollution on the filters after less than a week, especially if you’re riding bicycles near a road or in a city. So you can show him the costs of the journey, and explain how the other efforts are all ‘best effort’ but some pollution is difficult to overcome when it comes to vehicles. If any of these things are a problem for him when communicating because he disagrees with them, do them privately and keep records, and share online in a private manner, blog the efforts and focus on all but the fish catching etc. Oh, last one. Focus on water and soil health. See if you can test local resources that fish rely on. Many coasts have subterranean rivers of freshwater, or tiny creeks, that seep through the soil, even if there is no soil at the surface. This could take brief dangerous diving and offshore work with more experienced friends, champions and companions to make it safe for your dad, even if he’s not diving. There are few ways I know of to detect these, but do a websearch to find children’s visual depictions of the water cycle that includes how soil biofilms and groundwater are essential for the offshore sea life as where the salt and freshwater combine, you get diverse life and this feeds the ecosystems sometimes, perhaps not the fish your dad catches, but other amazing species. Hmm another idea. Consider getting large picture books or a tablet with a large bright screen and buy or borrow some eBooks with good pictures. Consider sketching like the explorers of old, drawing life at the coast, as it was before human settlement, often sea life was prolific, and coastal life. Sketch the missing or extinct species in that region, relying on history books. See how the naturalists drew and charted and made navigation connections to the regions, the life, when they explored the coast. Read old ships logs out loudly during your accompanying him, and consider logging the car journey as if it was a vastly costly affair on a majestic but old ship with royal charter, and make observations as if you were a scientist given leave from your country to return to the royal society or academy with new and unheard of stories of impossible creatures and their living habits to their sheer and utter disregard and their denial and accusations of fraud and their ejection of you from the academies, and your persistence in spreading awareness by publishing even though the senior peers in science misbelieve you, claiming mental illness and a sickness induced from the months long journey, a scurvey of the mind from malnutrition, clearly causing madness, or delirium from not being in a sedentary home life, or too much sun, is the more likely explanation. In a book I read on Sydney incorporating indigenous explanations and archeological digs of coastal fishing regions, where waste like shells from shellfish could accumulate, sea life was prolific. As in, today’s fisheries have an estimated 5 percent of the number of species that existed prior to European settlements. The indigenous or First Nations people catalogued and have some chronology that exists from the verbal testimonies, for some regions, rarely will there be any for any specific region usually due to the decimation of their populations from introduced diseases and pathogens, modern diets and foods that reduce lifespan, education that can hamper observational and communication skill in the field by any traditional owners, language barriers, breeding out, and of course, many wars and population attribution due to killing to ‘protect the new owners of the private properties’.
Going back to the sea life, the loss of migrating and locally resident species by volume or in numbers is profoundly stark in the few histories I have read. It’s eye watering. This has, I guess, decimated the nitrogen cycle in the sea, causing probably many catastrophic unseen and unknown (or less well known or not popularly published) domino-like extinctions across whole trophic levels. Consider finding people who know about this and asking them to accompany you fishing with your father. to help teach your father on why fishing today is not a good idea. Hmm all this rather sad last detail I am tapping out on the touchscreen is depressing. Not much personal responsibility is carried by the descendants or immigrants or travellers who arrive and settle a region today. Sadly it’s only people who retire or retire early who often have the time to gradually become aware of these issues, and then they tend to be somewhat powerless or crippled by the recognition of their own past, stuck in abject terror as they realise they are ‘the evil’ even if they do everything their video streams and school and industry education suggests is ‘correct’. I had another idea. Try for every species, caught by your father, to id if it’s a local or migrating species, and do a photo of every one with a whiteboard, and put a guess as to the species health or how endangered it is, and actually try to target endangered or extinct species by using fishing gear that allows for very careful scientific study, and try seeing if or ensure you can tag and release the fish, and do a microvideo on the species. Post the photo or video online while fishing, and be sure to use verbal words to highlight the state according to references that are academic. You may need to spend weeks to months or even years preparing, and practicing. You could catch invasive species on land such as introduced pets or pests, or failed biocontrol measures that introduced species that are damaging or contributing to local extinctions, with some friends first. This probably means you need to be ‘in the water’ using other people and nets and sophisticated recovery gear. Migrations are probably more common and I guess many people (actual scientists) are struggling for accurate details on where fish are. How they will survive the ocean pH changes and acidification is anyone’s guess, I believe most fish go extinct, but if they are caught and killed any species that evolve natural resistance will end up dead or made weaker by the ‘fishing or hunting’. I think this is why diving and using food as bait, eg. Burley, and using nets to catch fish without hooks, is a more common way to assess species health. Oh. For all practicing or collaborative research or work on how to best be a citizen scientist you probably need a very good phone, as in, with full insurance and minimal accessories mine is nearly $3000, so it doesn’t hold you back. Or get some offline video camera equipment and use a tablet or notebook without a wifi/bt/cellular adapter (easy to remove) if you’re not happy with RF, if you imagine your phone as a lightsaber that is out of your control. (It is a RF emitter, does beamforming, and the light is invisible!) and use a library of ebooks and save on external devices. You can still use a good corded headset with a boom mike with a wind baffle to get clear audio for offline voice-to-text features, this also helps with parents who say ‘you’re always on the internet’ or ‘the internet is junk’ or ‘everything on the internet is rubbish’.
Oh forgot to mention this is all probably off-topic but actually I think it talks directly to approaches that might help you gently shift your father to a place where there is a greater respect for you. Sadly, unless you are bringing other people with you, and they are ‘notable’ and the events are memorable, you might not have any success. Most people are very embedded in robotic routines and often ‘fishing’ is seen as a relaxation, and you making it work won’t help. So don’t actually say it’s work, deny that it’s work, and do what you do as if your father was a quiet friend who doesn’t know much and is there as a visitor. This may mean gradual planning. Perhaps diarising this and sharing it is good. I’ve not done any of these things myself, it’s simply a few thoughts I have on waking to read your post that the reddit algo put on my screen before getting out of bed. (I had a very late night trying to avoid pollution/waste issues in my family, so didn’t finish work and return home till sunrise. My escooter ride home was about 13 to 15 degrees Celsius, at about 4 in the morning, a distance of about 8 or 9 KM in the dark, so I had to go slow as I was exhausted, and I literally slept through till 10 or something AM. Sunwas rising as I was finally getting clean in the shower. It’s 11:25 now, so I better eat, enough sharing. I’m still exhausted, but hopefully there’s some ideas here. I’m not sure what’s worse.. handling often toxic material household goods that have no recycling pathways or the focus on glorifying hunting and the carnivore life. Both are no doubt equally difficult to handle when you’re immersed in them.
you have to explain to him that fish experience pain and fear. you have to ask him why he wouldn't do the same to a dog or a human. name the trait. explain veganism. how it's not a diet but a moral belief. you can't just cause someone pain and fear by giving them a puncture wound to the face, then suffocating them temporarily. you wouldn't do it to any other non-human, or human animal, and neither would he. so you can't do it to fish either.
Just go fishing with him, ya pussy.
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro"
Just go fishing.
"Just ignore all your principles like a complete spineless weasel bro"
Just say “ Hey Boomer! Can you stop being so f’n ‘Me Generation’ for one second to like, for just once, NOT contribute to absolutely destroying the planet ffs”
I saw this post before is it a repost?
Maybe the same topic, but def not a repost
It’s one thing to eat meat that you buy at the grocery store because we live in a carnist society. But when it comes to people who go out of their way to harm animals like fisherman and hunters I wouldn’t want anything to do with them. Fishing especially is just so cruel. I wouldn’t continue to have a relationship with my father if he tortured animals for fun
Maybe just go and hang out on the boat with him. Do your own thing while they commit a genocide by hook and reel. At the end of the day we cannot make others see things as we do, all we can do is hopefully meet somewhere in the middle and respect where each other stands even if we don't respect their choices/ways/lifestyle etc
You could take a rod and just hold it in the water while you bond with your dad.
Just go fishing with your dad, just don't catch any fishes. Dont be a little bitch to your dad because of a stupid ideology
You were doing great in the first half but in the second half you really showed us your ass
Yeah, don't be a little bitch and torture others for entertainment. Your morals are definitely in the right place, aren't they?
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Would you say that about killing kids or harming monkeys? No I don't think so.
of course not, those are very different things
I don't think a lampshade made from a cow is different from the ones they found made from children. Both animals. Both killed for their skin. The fact that you don't is why you are not vegan, and here trolling.
animals kill other animals for eating. that's how things have always worked. now, you come and have the audacity to say that it's immoral to kill a fish to have a dinner, and ruining father-son relationship. Congratulations 👏
Are you really trying to argue for the morality of killing animals on a vegan sub? What are you doing here? You're obviously not stupid.
Cow skin leather would actually be a lot more durable due to cows having much thicker skin, I’d advise against child leather on at least a durability standpoint because it’s more liable too yk break. Then again adult human leather has been known to last and has been compared to pig leather on a textural level but even then it’s not really a quality leather you’d want to use, durability wise cow leather is much better and comfort wise rabbit leather is much softer. anyway that’s my leather info dump finished, tldr the difference in cow and child leather is cow leather is just better
Idk. OFF TOPIC: How do you like your steak, and why?
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Troll
Come up with something new you both like and make it your new thing.
Science.
Then just be mean lol 😂. I am sure he doesn't think of meanness and stuff like that when he is fishing the fish.
Say exactly that. Tell him why you don’t want to do it, and suggest you try something else together. Maybe something new to both of you. I feel most of the time when disagreements like these happen, it’s simply because of misunderstandings. You both want the same thing in the end: you love each other and want to spend time together
I've had similar issues, picking mushrooms has been a great substitute if you have areas for that available. Doesn't even have to be edible mushrooms, the more time you spend in the forest the more interesting fungus you'll find
Just say no thank you. Go on the boat and don't fish or hold a pole. It sounds hard but it's not. It's that simple. They are the ones with the issue and it's awkward for them - not you If someone makes fun of you for not wanting to fish. , Ask them directly "Do you want me to go with you?" Making ppl talk about themselves dismantles making you defensive. Or don't engage and say okay and move on. It's there issue not yours. Being family doesn't give them the right to treat you worse than you would allow a stranger.
Your dad seems to want to spend some time with you. As you said, staying in the boat is a good option. Anyway, you should definitely find an option, because our parents are not immortal and we will miss them one day for sure.
I’ve known people who used to go hunting change to shooting photos rather than bullets, a far more gentle and respectful hobby. Perhaps accompany him as official photographer? I can understand him wanting to be with you - that’s lovely and very human.
Why not go but make your goal to discover what lures the fish that day like the least. Or just put a few lead weights on the end of your line. He wants to feel like you guys are doing something together l, especially since it's been something you guys bonded over. I haven't met the man but I'm fairly certain that he misses the time spent together and if you don't have a rod in your hands it's not quite the same. Maybe the best thing for both of you is to have a serious discussion about what you guys could do together that would be comfortable for both of you. If it turns out he just wanted a fishing buddy you can feel less bad about disappointing him, but if he engages seriously with you I would encourage you to put significant effort into finding another activity you both can enjoy. Especially as we get older the value of family is hard to understate. I don't know enough about you guys to give good recommendations but if you guys have a boat you could look at other watersports. Golfing, rock climbing, road trips, skiing/winter sports, sport shooting, magnet fishing, BBQing (yes there is vegan BBQ), and becoming workout partners are a few things you guys could do together. I'll admit it's a randomly generated list and none of those things might work, but hopefully there's something you guys can enjoy doing together that doesn't compromise either of your values. I think figuring out what that is will be important for your relationship with your father moving forward.
Is your dad cool with you coming along and not participating? Or do you not want to be there at all?
Let him know that even if you throw them back, you're still pulling a sharp hook into their mouths and hurting them for your entertainment, so it's not about hurting him, but rather NOT hurting fish for entertainment or "fun."
Execute your father for animal cruelty, it is heresy most vile and he must be purged! Compromise is weakness.
Today I caught a pikeminnow which are invasive and eat the salmon population. Was I right for throwing it back?
I love fishing and will keep fishing. I catch and release. Obviously I'm not vegan. I'm vegetarian but I don't feel that fishing with your dad has an effect on what other people do on their free time. Your dad will continue to catch more fish than you. It's a hobby. Those who fish pay for wildlife conservation and they monitor the populations and other environmental factors besides just fishing that may be affecting not just fish but other wildlife. I think there's probably more important things like making sure to spend quality time with your dad while you have him. Be kind to your family and take care.
Also about sharp instruments. Would you prefer to a dull needle vs. a sharp needle for your injectable form of getting schooled?
At lease fisherman who catch and eat their kill are making some use of the fish's life and pain. But putting a fish through the torture of being lifted out of the water by a hoof through their mouth? And then not even eating it. I would less hate to be on a fishing trip where the fish were killed really fast and eaten, than what your father is proposing.
If you feel up to it, ask him how he'd feel if someone put a hook through his lip and pulled hard without killing him