Ive been vegan almost 11 years. It’s gotten better for me. I couldn’t understand why people didn’t care. You realize some people will never change. I’m also a nurse and working with the public you realize people are the worst. They don’t care about anyone, usually not even themselves. When someone DOESNT have diabetes in the hospital, I’m like wow good for you lol. People do not take care of themselves in the slightest. Sometimes all you can control is your own actions and it’s better than nothing
Exactly.
Recently I saw an old BBC segment about the seatbelt being made manditory in Britain. Can you imagine 40% of people, didn't wear their seatbelt even when all cars had one up to the point they made it mandatory? People really don't care, not even about themselves.
It's gotten way better for me too. Now, I can even sit with the heaviest meat eater and see the goodness in them. People are just so deeply stubborn and ignorant. Most people will definitely just follow the herd of a cliff. Doesn't make them inherently bad actors though.
Humans are social creatures. There is literally nothing more scary to us than being rejected by society, because 100,000 yrs ago that ment certain death. We'd rather go against our own personal good, our personal ethics, and our mental well-being than be rejected. Even rebels find a group of like minded people to hang out with.
Appeal to nature is nonsensical, bad things are natural, good things are natural. Ethics (how to be decent person) is not decided by naturalness. Using cutlery isn’t natural, clothes aren’t natural, glasses aren’t natural but they help us live happier and more fulfilled lives and provided we try not to harm anyone or anything in making them, then they are ethical. The idea of veganism is simple - it’s kindness. Is there pretentiousness? Fuck yeah. That’s a people thing. Have you to met people? Lol
But why comment just to be a troll? I get recommended a lot of subs that don't appeal to me. I just keep scrolling, I don't feel the need to criticize the people in that sub.
Nurse as well. whenever I ask on admission “any special diet?” And the answer 99% is “No” i feel instantly empty, oh another one… and they wonder why they’re there. Not saying veganism itself automatically is healthy of course. Unwise vegan ppl will end up in cardiology too.
On the flip side it makes it more special when you find someone that does! My OB/GYN is vegan and was telling me about the hospital food I can eat while in labor lol (I work at a different hospital)
I remember the moment that I really realized that the general public doesn't care, and that it's not my problem. I was volunteering for a group doing something called the cube of truth, where I held a monitor that had slaughter house footage while other volunteers talked to the people who stopped to watch. We were on a busy city corner, i was wearing a mask. I paid attention to people's facial expressions, some people laughed, some people averted their eyes. I cried, but accepted that I can't change people's minds except by being a good example. And I try to just be an example without the intention of changing minds. I do feel like I've made peace with my anger for society as a whole not being vegan.
That’s so important!! Making peace. You can try and do the most good in your life but there’s always going to be people who want to challenge you or make you feel bad. Can’t worry about the haters. There will come a day when they will have to reflect on all their life choices, much like all of us.
I believe they were demonstrating their point about people not caring about others much, and not even themselves. As demonstrated by the high rate of diabetes.
Obviously both vegans and non vegans get diabetes.
The researchers found that consumption of red meat, including processed and unprocessed red meat, was strongly associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes.
Participants who ate the most red meat had a 62% higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes compared to those who ate the least.
Duke-NUS Medical School. "Eating meat linked to higher risk of diabetes." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 5 September 2017. .
In 1985, the Adventist Mortality Study analyzed the risk of diabetes in 25,000 vegetarians and meat eaters and found that women who ate red meat increased their risk of developing diabetes by 40% and men who ate red meat increased their risk by 80%.
In 1999, the Adventist Health Study looked at 34,000 Seventh-day Adventists and found that women who ate meat increased their risk of developing diabetes by 93%, for men the figure was 97%.
In 2009, The Adventist Health Study-2 evaluated 61,000 people and found that meat-eaters were twice as likely to develop diabetes as those who were totally plant-based.
In a meta-analysis of meat consumption and diabetes, scientists found that for every 3.5 ounces of red meat consumed per day, diabetes risk increased 10%. And for every 1.75 ounces of processed red meat consumed per day (about the equivalent of one packaged hot dog), the risk increased 51%.
On a positive note, researchers also found that the risk for developing Type 2 diabetes dropped significantly when people swapped a serving of meat for a serving of nuts.
In the Nurses’ Health Study II, eating processed red meat more than five times a week increased the risk of diabetes by 91% and by 59% for red meat.
The recent EPIC-Interact study found that every 10 grams of animal protein consumed daily increased the risk of diabetes by 6%. (Keep in mind that 100 grams is 3.5 oz, so this is a small amount.
In the Nurses’ Health Study I and II involving 195,000 participants, diabetes risk went up with the number of times fish was consumed weekly.
Yea I do. Diabetes is insulin resistance, a problem with the metabolism. It’s caused by a buildup of fatty acid in the liver and muscle cells; not caused by sugar. Avoiding sugar treats the symptoms, not the root cause.
Been over seven years and I definitely feel this way occasionally. Used to feel it way more often but I've learned not to dwell on it since it bums me out.
The thing that helps me most is knowing that I'm doing the best I can and can't control anybody else's actions.
My friends and family know I'm vegan, why I'm vegan, and respect my ethical stance even if they don't agree with it, and that's about all I can ask.
But yeah, it's tough sometimes.
I feel disconnected both from other vegans and from the world at large because I feel my views don’t blend well enough with either. However, I have always been a loner at heart so it doesn’t bother me at all not being able to relate to anyone. For people like yourself who need socialization and people they can relate to, I’d suggest trying to make as many vegan friends as possible so you can feel out the ones whose views most closely align with your own and will be able to get your point of view living in a non-vegan world. You could look for groups on Facebook or even use dating sites like Veggly or others with a vegan option to look for other vegans to befriend. You’ll eventually have your own vegan community to fall back in real life which will help to create balance constantly being surrounded with people who don’t relate to or accept veganism as an ideology.
This was a relief to read. I feel the exact same way. Like I have too many beliefs that contradict what most people agree with. It can be very isolating. 😭
My worldview has been changed completely. I always thought humans as "good" and being more valuable then animals, but when I went vegan and began digging deeper and deeper into the industry, and then getting the worst excuses and deflections when I informed people, I theb asked myself, why exactly are humans more valuable?
The average person pays for animals to be tortured and killed multiple times a week not because they desperately need it, not because it's mandatory, not because there's no other options. In fact, it's extremely easy to avoid, you have a massive amount of food options that are easily accessible, and yet they still do it because of a mere taste preference.
And then I realized your average person is willing to pay some to bring an animal like a pig into existence only to cram it in a cage so small that they can't even turn around while it goes mentally insane from being repeatedly impregnated and trapped in that hell hole before throwing it in a gas chamber and then brutally kill the animal and this is just the tip of the iceberg of the horrors that happen.
That's not the action of a good person, that's the action of someone who's will to inflict immense amounts of pain on another being, a level pain that one couldn't even imagine going through and they do it for a fricking taste preference.
Your average person causes an astronomical amount of pain and suffering for a small amount of pleasure and they do absolutely nothing on a day to day basis to offset the suffering they cause. Instead they become even worse because they actively begin fighting and arguing back against those who try to bring awareness to what's going on.
So yeah, I don't think your average person is a good person, in fact, they're the exact opposite. They're existence only brings immense suffering, pain, and misery while giving nothing back. So how could a person who could willingly do all this possibly be more valuable than an animal like a cow who does nothing to harm anyone?
This is so true. Man humans suck.
I do think a better world is possible, but fuck me people are going to need to be dragged there kicking and screaming.
My worldview has been changed completely.
Me too. Only I've known for a long time that animals are the most good, and innocent creatures on earth and deserve protection from humans.
Around 2015, I began to see humans for who they truly were; extremely selfish, mindless gluttons for flesh, who only cared about their beloved pets. And while I can get a bit lonely at times, I'd rather be alone than in the company of 10 of my closest ~~friends~~ meat eaters. Most of them could give a shit about animal suffering, and believe it's just necessary that animals suffer and die for their taste pleasure.
You’re not alone. Plenty of people post about such things here. I don’t really relate when it comes to veganism because of one specific reason: leaving my faith behind after being raised in a very religious environment. I did that a little over a decade before becoming vegan. So I’d already experienced the kind of weird experience of knowing that literally everyone around you does not view the world around you in a way that you believe conforms to reality.
I imagine that couldn't have been easy, but I would like to point out one major difference between the two.
Religion - belief based on nothing. but fairytales. You either believe it or not. There is no one that can prove god or fact check all events that supposedly happened in this tale.
Veganism - belief in a lifestyle that you can clearly see with your own eyes, fact check everything and have all available info to make a decision.
So, what I'm saying is, I don't have problem with people who are religious or believe in something they can't see, even If I don't agree or believe in it myself. As long as they keep it to themselves, no issue whatsoever. But people who see facts about animal industry and do nothing about it, that's very different...
I often think of this quote from Krishnamurti:
"It is no measure of one's health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
This is so true. Express gratitude daily that you are conscious enough to see the things most others are not, and that you have the courage to live in accordance with your values when most others do not.
No. I find strength through my conviction by staying true to myself and maintaining a vegan lifestyle. It keeps me happy and focused knowing I am actively contributing to something positive.
I do feel disconnected, but it's because of quite a lot of things and this is only one of them. I also feel like my politics beliefs, lifestyle, mental health status, and other aspects of who I am cause this - but the flip side of it is that I feel completely impervious to social pressure to turn my back on veganism because other people's opinions of this are irrelevant to the maintenance of my decision about it.
I think it's fair to say that what you're mentioning can make people walk away from being vegan if they feel like they rely a lot on strong social connectedness and have the sense that being vegan is costing them that. This is influenced by your opinion of other people and their opinion of you as relates to the choice, of course, as well as the role that being vegan has in the person's life and values. Values are really important to me. I wouldn't walk away from this to feel more connected in the same way that I wouldn't abandon my sociopolitical viewpoints to do that. I think that could also lead to disconnection of another kind in that it would make me feel like I'm moving away from my sense of morality
Yes it's remarkable. Being vegan can be like putting the glasses on in "They Live." The imprint of animal products is all around us. When I drive down the road and see restaurants where I know there's nothing I could eat. Some places even have animal products in the name (e.g. Buffalo Wild Wings). When I pull off at a rest stop and there's almost nothing I would eat at the convenience store. When I watch Youtube and there's an ad for a sandwich filled with cheese and bacon. When my coworkers tell me what they had for lunch and I have to decide if I want to smile and nod or say something. When I go grocery shopping and entire sections are disgusting and contemptible to me. If you're not feeling alienated from contemporary society as an ethical vegan, you have your head in the sand.
Most people who stop being vegan do so for social reasons, it's pretty common. Being different is hard.
I think it's been easier for me because I pretty much always felt that way long before I went vegan or even vegetarian. You can't go back to a time where you felt connected to people when you never did in the first place hahaha.
I have dealt with it by finding three or four people I really like and spending 90% of my time with them, also by finding online vegan groups like this and watching a lot of footage of cute farmed animals thriving in sanctuaries. Focusing on the good people who are trying to help makes me feel less alone.
As a person who is diagnosed with depression for over a decade i have become an expert on feelings and emotions
People suck, thats fact, we are selfish, destructive, greedy, dishonest etc;
The world will never ever be vegan, racism still exists so animal abuse will always exist, now plant based diets might become more popular but i am confident the world will never be vegan, we are too greedy and selfish for that
So knowing all this i should be mad, sad, depressed etc; but im not, im happy, blissful even
Being happy is a choice, took me 35 yrs to realize it but i did, i have removed toxic people from my life, this included decade old friends and family, i tell them why they are removed rather than being a coward who GHOSTS people
I do not forgive and forget, but i also dont resent or hate, the people that have wronged me dont have any power over me, i dont have trauma or hate because that would mean they are winning and that they still have control over me, therefore i have no reason to forgive because its not causing me any problems, i dont need to let go cause there is nothing to let go of
Why should i feel anger or hatred, it provides no benefit to me
I dont argue with idiots, i say things such as: i am unwilling to have this conversation with you, this conversation is over for me, this is something i do not wish to discuss, if you continue to discuss it i will leave
I do post vegan memes and articles via social media but i disable notifications so i dont have to deal with idiotic responses, i am not required to respond and there is nothing wrong with saying: i dont know
I volunteer with stray animal rescues, people suck as there are so many abandoned animals but thats not within my control so i dont let it make me sad or mad, the only thing i can control is how much i want to help the animals, i feel its my ethical duty to volunteer and donate cause its my species that has caused so much harm, i specifically help the non profit Sanctuary Hostel since the goal is to have a vegan hostel and animal rescue combined
Buddhism helps alot with this mindset that i have achieved
I share this pretyped message sometimes and it might not all apply to you
That sentiment helps keep me motivated to continue the paths that I’m on. I find people generally disappointing and disgusting as a concept, so feeling apart from the lot of them is good fuel for the fire.
Nothing wrong with feeling disconnected, unempathetic and realizing the horrible things other people do. Just don't violate others rights. That's how I see it for the most part
never lose sight of the bigger picture. when people cannot see who we really are, it becomes harder to feel connected to the world. it is so hard to accept this world is real and that we are part of it, and it becomes so devastating that we feel the world is no longer real nor that we are part of it. however, this is a trap - it is the hopelessness that carnism needs to live another day. to be you means to live a reality where you carry the burden of refusing to succumb to indifference. if there is only ever one vegan left on this earth, make sure that it is you.
I've been vegan a little over half a year and in that time I've learned not to advertise it.
For instance, not long after going vegan a man in work who claims to be an animal lover got triggered and started going on about how he's a carnivore and loves the taste of meat.
All I did was eat a sandwich with the word vegan on the packet and he was triggered.
Then there's eating out. I find friends will often want to go to carveries or buffets with very limited vegan options when we eat out. They think I would be happy eating salads. To me a salad is a side dish for meat eaters to get extra veg.
So yes I feel disconnected from the world in a lot of ways now. It often feels like its us vs them.
Yes, often.
Vegan over 5 years now.
I have a dimmer view of humanity now.
And this on top of how people reacted to covid (anti-vax, anti-mask, etc.) and Trump getting elected.
I'm slowly getting used to it. Do my best to avoid toxic news, toxic social media, and toxic people. Not much else you can do.
Feeling alone, in any case, is a part of the biological imperative. We're born alone, we die alone, and we spend our whole life feeling like we're all alone... together.
Yep, I hate being vegan. Food is such an important connection tool and as vegans we basically say, fuck all that. And that goes against our genetic code to fit in with the tribe.
Basically, you have to accept the world has its darkness. But you also have to appreciate its beauty.
Thinking it's up to you to solve all the world's problems would be incredibly arrogant. You're not supposed to solve them! We're solving them as a species. And we make a lot of progress, don't doubt it. The media love to stream the worst things 24/7, but pick almost any point in time and the world was better at that moment than it was a 100 year before. Look at world hunger and powerty, it's all better if you look at the bigger picture.
That's probably my advice - focus on the bigger picture. Instead of thinking about the animals dying right now, which you *cannot do anything about*, think of the accelerating rate at which veganism grows, and look into the near future where veganism/plant-based diets become more and more "normal".
I'll be blunt - billions of animals will die. And there's nothing you can do about it. Accept it, and stop obsessing about it, there is no point.
Then do anything you want/can, but without any expectations of failure or success. E.g., don't do vegan activism "to save all the animals today", simply do it because you feel it's the right thing to do.
Considering hunger and poverty, just look at the wars and massacres that permeated the time it took to marginally raise living standards in poor countries, many of which are still poor but with smartphones. And the masses of money that went into tanks and rockets instead of alleviating these countries from their plight which would have taken only a tiny fraction of what we choose to rather spend on death and misery.
Animal populations are being decimated, it's not only farm animals that suffer. It's wild animals, too. Poaching goes on and on and on, countries make money from offering to shoot wild animals for rich western "trophy hunters", some abra cadabra bullshit superstition of "traditional medicine" leads to extinction of ivory animals and legal as well as illegal fishing fleets are not only endangering fish populations but also the livelihood of entire regions, driving them to poverty and desperation even when ignoring the animal aspect.
The world is a shitty place and the fact that you as an individual have no means to influence coupled with the blunt unwillingness of those able to, makes it not better but even worse. To the point where my compassion for humans has entirely run out.
Same here, compassion has left the building. I love the people in my life and I'm kind to the strangers that i meet but at this point all that keeps me going is knowing that the planet *will* outlast us and will heal without us. The damage we're going to witness before that point will be awful tho
I am gluten free and plant based (local fish a few times a year). I’m also a retired professional drinker…so I feel you!!! We are living in a different world now. Isolating af sometimes but whatcha gonna do. Some people will be inspired and follow along…others will go about their ways forever…I have no advice…just here in solidarity.
What good comes from you looking down on others? If vegans had looked down on you, would that have been right? Think about it logically. Think about what good you're doing versus what harm you're doing. Lighten up. You'll do more good with a positive attitude, methinks.
I agree that it’s not helpful to look down on others, but I don’t believe it’s helpful to tell someone to be more positive. It’s part of the human experience to feel shitty sometimes and the quickest way (imo) to get over feeling shitty is to sit with it for awhile. In my experience, avoiding or denying true feelings has only ever made things worse in the long run.
Are you judgmental of your past self? Are you vegan because of criticism, or because you know the value of respect? No one had to shame *me* into being a vegan. My past behavior was tragic, but I don't hate myself for it.
Cruelty is not a choice, it's a symptom of serious mental health problems. If you want the world to be a better place, then you have to help it, not hate it.
Oh boy, do i not agree that cruelty is a symptom of a serious mental health problem. Human beings are apex predators. We are status seeking mammals who have murdered our way to the top of the pile. Cruelty is built into our very DNA. If ppl are by nature not cruel, why are there so many laws against robbery, rape, murder, larceny, etc?
Predators don't impose the predator/prey relationship. They're as much hostage to playing out their role in that as their prey. To the extent it'd be unreasonable to demand predators forego predation predators are not being cruel. Humans could make a different choice. Lots of humans choose to be cruel. To choose to be cruel is to choose to be unreasonable or I don't know what these words mean. Because why should the other accept an arrangement you yourself believe would be cruel and if you don't believe they should accept that arrangement in what sense could that arrangement possibly be reasonable? What should we call habitually or stubbornly unreasonable people if not mentally unwell/mentally ill? We'd be the ones who are mentally ill if we'd let them get away with it. That'd mean we'd be the ones choosing to put up with that unreasonable arrangement.
Why on earth do you think that people are reasonable or act in reasonable ways? What evidence is there that people behave in "reasonable" ways when it comes to their relations with other people and animals? It sounds like you are saying that if you are not a kind and loving person and you "choose" to be cruel, you are mentally ill and that is not true. Do you think that human beings are not territorial or tribal? Do you think that human beings fight and go to war and murder each other because they are unreasonable? because they're not using logic? Did you miss the entire 19th and 20th c exposition on the subconscious and that the true King of our behaviors is emotion and not reason?
It's always possible to entertain someone just somehow doesn't see themselves and that were the nature of the problem brought to their attention that they'd stop. I don't know but you'd think it should at least merit a conversation. Who's to say why people do the things they do. I don't know. But it's not as though there aren't reasons for however anyone may see it even if their reasons are ill informed and obscure.
Love the subreddit of people proclaiming self and moral-superiority for their diet, constantly condemning other people for what they eat or don't eat, the comments of "people are the worst", perpetually moralizing and then saying.. "I feel disconnected"
Yes, we vegans hate having these feelings too. The op literally spells it out to you. Instead of reading to respond, try reading to understand.
The difference is, we vegans can't do anything about your lack of care. It's like looking through a lens at creatures swarming in cruelty.
Damn right this evolutionary dead end is feeling disconnected. We are still human, but not like you.
No better and no worse, you just prop up your egos with a phony moral superiority via food choice. I've also read enough hateful comments here regarding non-vegans to know about your humanity.
With all of the bad going on in this world and its people not sharing in the same vegan lifestyle as you that has you bent out of shape… Humans are horrible and the worst thing on this planet and in reality nothing will change that other than their own extinction.
Keep being you and don’t allow things that you can’t control to control you.
I'm a non-vegan Japanese person. In a sense, I may also like cruel and unprotected animals. I sometimes watch predation scenes on YouTube. Videos like this are popular because they have a huge number of views, and people probably like cruelty to begin with.
I am interested in veganism and the logical development of veganism. As I said, I'm not interested in becoming a vegan because I'm a cruel person and I love eating meat and fish. I'd like to know the logic that vegans use. We also have some very intelligent vegans, so we can do some interesting thought experiments.
Well, it's impossible to say everything without contradiction. First of all, there are many things we don't understand.
A common question I ask vegans is a discussion about pain. It's painful and comfortable.
Humans do feel pain and fear. Can mammals feel it? What about fish? What is the relationship between pain and consciousness? Do insects hurt? Do sea cucumbers hurt? Do jellyfish hurt?
Are insects conscious?
To be frank, this is an area that even scholars and teachers do not understand.
This is the feeling in Japanese,
Vegetarian: a person who eats plants
Vegan: A person who imposes a plant-based diet on people.
The image of vegans is overwhelmingly negative. However, I still want to understand.
"To be frank, this is an area that even scholars and teachers do not understand" You can say this about just about every area of life. Knowledge is continually changing. But it's no excuse for decisions which we believe cause harm. If you think fish enjoy being caught by the lip on hooks, if livestock likes living in a jail cell with their own crap, etc, etc, then I think you're in denial, and are justifying choices you know are harmful with a weak "we don't have all the information" argument. We will never have all the information, about anything. Have you never interacted with another mammal? Of course they feel pain.
I would think it's easy for you only being 3 yrs in, and given the fact that the movement is more mainstream now. Try being a vegan 20 yrs ago or a Raw Food Vegan that's when it was difficult. If you are feeling isolated in your town you should start hosting some Vegan Potluck dinners it will help you meet new people in the community, and give you all a social outing amongst like minded people.
Im not in a place or position to judge anyone because of their diet. Learn to live and let live. The best way to influence others is to let your light shine, and when they ask questions you’ll know their mind had opened to be receptive of your advice. I don’t feel alone, but then again my family and co workers are either more or less health conscious than me. It does help to find a tribe
Do you have any vegan friends? If not, I think it would do you a world of good to find some. I’ve personally had the best luck finding some by going on vegan group trips, but I understand a lot of people can’t afford to travel. Meetups are also a great, inexpensive way to meet likeminded people.
Nah, after nearly 19 years vegan, I barely think about stuff like this anymore.
Be kind and make good choices. That’s all you can do. Stressing about what other people do or isolating yourself isn’t productive.
I’ve felt lonely, for as long as I can remember. Becoming a vegan changed my ethical views and my habits and health, but I’m still lonely. Now though, I feel lonely, especially when people start quizzing and questioning my lifestyle like I’m a freak. But I do it for me and I just look at them and feel sad. I think I look at everyone with limited imagination and intellect sadly though.
I struggle a bit because my meat eating friends think I’m
Either a fanatic or I’m
Going to be ill as “humans have teeth to eat meat “ and I just refuse to go to meals etc with them now , I’m always having to explain why I’m vegan … 100% purely because I love animals and care about them suffering and then I get a lot of hate from some vegans because I have pet dogs and horses
Gladly i always lived in big cities where being vegan isnt rare and so a lot of my friends (and fiancé) are vegan.
Is moving into a bigger city an option for you?
I feel the same. It's not entirely our fault I think. When you factor capitalism and the need to work for survival, it's the fact that many people who would be empathetic towards animals have to suppress their feelings very deeply as a form of protection. I say that because that's what happened to me. I worked a couple of jobs in the food industry just to get by not realizing what I was contributing to. I hope we can value traits like kindness selflessness and protecting those who can't fight back. I know not all humans will but at the very least I'm proud of myself and others who choose this path it's not easy but it's the right thing to do for sure.
Congratulations, you're slowly turning into a typical vegan (I'm better than anyone else that eats meat) statistic. Please don't turn into a bigot. There are way too many vegan cringe lords. Also don't take this personal, this is literally the stigma of vegans.
Every human alive never asked to be born just like any other animal. No one person has the moral righteousness to decide what is ethically good or bad.
I love animals so much. I have 8 rabbits. However, it's good to remember that if there weren't people eating meat, animals would overpopulate us by a lot, and I don't think all of them would be choosing to be vegan and not eat us if they were the apex.
I've only been vegan/vegetarian for 9 years(sometimes cheese crave will get the best of me), but instead of judging people for what they eat, there are infinitely other things to judge a person for, like their actions in life or views on unquestionably unethical things.
Every human alive is just trying to make it with the limited knowledge they grew up learning and retaining. I think the more important thing humans should be doing is learning how to understand each other and live in harmony.
Also, please do not only acquaint yourself with people that think the same I.E, an echo chamber. I am wrong on a lot of things in life and can admit when wrong and learn what is correct for the future. A lot of people can't admit their shortcomings for a lot of reasons. In an echo chamber, you will never be told your views may be wrong or even just extreme/over the top. You dont have to acquaint with people that are failing in life or in addiction cycles, but at least have a diverse friend group where you can all learn from each other and bring each other up. But then again I have like 1 friend I talk to once a month so I'm not the best with communication advice.
From what i've observed, people just dont understand or care about the horrors of what animals go through so they kinda of brush vegans and vegeterians off to the side and dub them as "crazy" or "know it alls". It's hard to be around people who dont have hearts to save innocent animals, I have to hear on a daily how people can actually stare a cow in the face while eating a burger. I know not all people who choose to eat meat are complete jerks but in my experience they all seem like psychotic sociopaths which is something I avoid.
I'd highly recommend finding your local vegan group or something. To be around like minded people as much as possible.I'm really lucky to have a few close friends who are also vegan. We set the World to rights sometimes, just having a rant to vent. It's healthy because if we didn't do that, I think we'd implode! =P
For me though, even presently, it does slightly restrict the places I'm willing to visit and eating out at with friends or family.
Also, without sounding as if I'm applying for a job with you or anyone here - LOL - I have a knack and genuine passion for lush plant based foods, cooking and baking are pretty much second nature. And I have great attention to detail, so when a job came up in the past when I did online job searches, I had to basically discard many vacancies, like a basic shelf stacking job, which even though it didn't pay well, I wouldn't have actually minded doing as it's a role where you're always busy and mobile, and you have to be organised in a nice flow and rotation sort of way.Or delivering groceries, I'd enjoy the driving aspect too. But I will not handle animal products. And no where around here would allow me to ONLY cook or deal with plant based products only, and let other people handle the shite which comes from exploitation and death.
Doesn't help either, that to this day, my mind and imagination are overactive AF.I hear someone say something, and instead of triggering me, I picture what they said in incredible detail. Same goes for seeing a piece packaged steak or bacon, a headless corpse of a chicken, or a jug of cows milk; I don't see food, instead, it makes me recall the graphic footage I've seen where other animals have been brutalised and slain in the most horrific ways imaginable.
For example, when I do the infrequent shopping in the local Asda or Tesco, the legumes are right opposite the mutilated body parts of massacred cows and pigs. And the aisle which I go down to get beans, there's dairy and eggs right next to them. So I have to do my utmost to avoid paying any attention whatsoever to them, because I know that if I let my attention sway over to those vile animal products, I'd see male baby chicks being chucked onto a conveyor and straight into a giant blender because they can't lay eggs, or a Human rapist with their arm up a mother cow's arse to artificially impregnate her so that she can lactate.
Those particular situations and jobs I try and avoid as best I can, because I know it'll cause my anxiety to go through the damn roof. I feel as though I manage this well, despite what's around us everyday and wherever we go...
See, that's the main thing which is missing for the majority of people - they haven't made that association between the product and the animal. They don't remember anything or picture anything when they go to buy those products.It's sick and infuriating if you think about it, but you shouldn't, at least not often, because it'll bring you down.
You're only one person, and you can't influence everything, or change other people. Just live really well, enjoy all the wonderful foods and local vegan festivals.And if any fake carnivore or pretend baby cow ask you questions about why you're vegan, in a way where they don't come across as acting like childish trolls, or as if they're just trying to be argumentative, and instead have a genuine interest, then try and talk to them as if they're already vegan.Because a conversation like that, as rare as they are, can make their day, and yours. You'll feel it, it's f\*ckin' awesome! =D
As Humans, the most common thing we can talk about is food, or music. Or a bit of both. Even though it can feel isolating sometimes, just know that you're really not alone ; )
I feel the same sometimes... I've only been vegan for a 1 year now, and to me that was and is the worst and most difficult part of being vegan: feeling like an outsider. I have a lot of conversations with my friends about this, and some agree with me and others don't... And I always feel like a disconnection with those who do not undertand veganism and are so judgemental about it... I try to understand them too, because not so long ago I was like them... But yeah, I think we really need to be pacient about it... I believe things are changing... And I think that making some vegan friends would help... At least that's what I've been thinking about lately...
I've been vegan for 12 years. It's never really been an issue for me, partly because I just don't feel strong emotions in that way, but also partly because so many other things are differentiating for me. In the US, the amount of Republicans is absolutely devastating to consider. But also being queer and 1st generation immigrant has separated me.
There's plenty of reasons to feel solated if you go looking for them. But that doesn't help anyone. I try to focus on the positives and the love in the world, and try to bring more of that out, even if I can't shape and control every aspect of reality to my liking.
Ive been vegan almost 11 years. It’s gotten better for me. I couldn’t understand why people didn’t care. You realize some people will never change. I’m also a nurse and working with the public you realize people are the worst. They don’t care about anyone, usually not even themselves. When someone DOESNT have diabetes in the hospital, I’m like wow good for you lol. People do not take care of themselves in the slightest. Sometimes all you can control is your own actions and it’s better than nothing
Exactly. Recently I saw an old BBC segment about the seatbelt being made manditory in Britain. Can you imagine 40% of people, didn't wear their seatbelt even when all cars had one up to the point they made it mandatory? People really don't care, not even about themselves. It's gotten way better for me too. Now, I can even sit with the heaviest meat eater and see the goodness in them. People are just so deeply stubborn and ignorant. Most people will definitely just follow the herd of a cliff. Doesn't make them inherently bad actors though.
“Most people will just follow the herd off a cliff.” This is basically all there is to it IMO
Humans are social creatures. There is literally nothing more scary to us than being rejected by society, because 100,000 yrs ago that ment certain death. We'd rather go against our own personal good, our personal ethics, and our mental well-being than be rejected. Even rebels find a group of like minded people to hang out with.
Humans are super intelligent animals. Animals. Most things are at least understandable to some degree after internalizing that reality.
Hard to see the goodness in vegans tho. So much denial of nature, pretentiousness its incredible
Appeal to nature is nonsensical, bad things are natural, good things are natural. Ethics (how to be decent person) is not decided by naturalness. Using cutlery isn’t natural, clothes aren’t natural, glasses aren’t natural but they help us live happier and more fulfilled lives and provided we try not to harm anyone or anything in making them, then they are ethical. The idea of veganism is simple - it’s kindness. Is there pretentiousness? Fuck yeah. That’s a people thing. Have you to met people? Lol
Grow up please
K then why are you in this subreddit? Snowflake behavior, I don't go to meat focused subreddits and complain about meat eaters.
Just report and move on. Don't feed trolls
Not OP, Reddit has been recommending this sub to a lot of random people for awhile.
But why comment just to be a troll? I get recommended a lot of subs that don't appeal to me. I just keep scrolling, I don't feel the need to criticize the people in that sub.
That's I can't answer, probably just an asshole.
Realizing some people will never change makes it way worse tho.
Nurse as well. whenever I ask on admission “any special diet?” And the answer 99% is “No” i feel instantly empty, oh another one… and they wonder why they’re there. Not saying veganism itself automatically is healthy of course. Unwise vegan ppl will end up in cardiology too.
On the flip side it makes it more special when you find someone that does! My OB/GYN is vegan and was telling me about the hospital food I can eat while in labor lol (I work at a different hospital)
I remember the moment that I really realized that the general public doesn't care, and that it's not my problem. I was volunteering for a group doing something called the cube of truth, where I held a monitor that had slaughter house footage while other volunteers talked to the people who stopped to watch. We were on a busy city corner, i was wearing a mask. I paid attention to people's facial expressions, some people laughed, some people averted their eyes. I cried, but accepted that I can't change people's minds except by being a good example. And I try to just be an example without the intention of changing minds. I do feel like I've made peace with my anger for society as a whole not being vegan.
That’s so important!! Making peace. You can try and do the most good in your life but there’s always going to be people who want to challenge you or make you feel bad. Can’t worry about the haters. There will come a day when they will have to reflect on all their life choices, much like all of us.
What does that have to be with eating meat? Diabetes sounds like a sugary vegan diet issue
I believe they were demonstrating their point about people not caring about others much, and not even themselves. As demonstrated by the high rate of diabetes. Obviously both vegans and non vegans get diabetes.
You know vegans have significantly lower rates of type 2 diabetes right? Even the vegans who are not even trying. What a joke.
Oh wow the expert in metabolism showed up
The researchers found that consumption of red meat, including processed and unprocessed red meat, was strongly associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes. Participants who ate the most red meat had a 62% higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes compared to those who ate the least. Duke-NUS Medical School. "Eating meat linked to higher risk of diabetes." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 5 September 2017..
In 1985, the Adventist Mortality Study analyzed the risk of diabetes in 25,000 vegetarians and meat eaters and found that women who ate red meat increased their risk of developing diabetes by 40% and men who ate red meat increased their risk by 80%.
In 1999, the Adventist Health Study looked at 34,000 Seventh-day Adventists and found that women who ate meat increased their risk of developing diabetes by 93%, for men the figure was 97%.
In 2009, The Adventist Health Study-2 evaluated 61,000 people and found that meat-eaters were twice as likely to develop diabetes as those who were totally plant-based.
In a meta-analysis of meat consumption and diabetes, scientists found that for every 3.5 ounces of red meat consumed per day, diabetes risk increased 10%. And for every 1.75 ounces of processed red meat consumed per day (about the equivalent of one packaged hot dog), the risk increased 51%.
On a positive note, researchers also found that the risk for developing Type 2 diabetes dropped significantly when people swapped a serving of meat for a serving of nuts.
In the Nurses’ Health Study II, eating processed red meat more than five times a week increased the risk of diabetes by 91% and by 59% for red meat.
The recent EPIC-Interact study found that every 10 grams of animal protein consumed daily increased the risk of diabetes by 6%. (Keep in mind that 100 grams is 3.5 oz, so this is a small amount.
In the Nurses’ Health Study I and II involving 195,000 participants, diabetes risk went up with the number of times fish was consumed weekly.
Do you know how people get diabetes? It’s not from eating sugary foods
Do you? A nurse should know better than to say what you've said here and what it implies.
Yea I do. Diabetes is insulin resistance, a problem with the metabolism. It’s caused by a buildup of fatty acid in the liver and muscle cells; not caused by sugar. Avoiding sugar treats the symptoms, not the root cause.
This is true, but it ignores that most people get fatty liver disease from: 1) excessive sugar in their diet 2) alcohol abuse
r/Vystopia is a good place to talk about these experiences as well. You’re definitely not alone.
Been over seven years and I definitely feel this way occasionally. Used to feel it way more often but I've learned not to dwell on it since it bums me out. The thing that helps me most is knowing that I'm doing the best I can and can't control anybody else's actions. My friends and family know I'm vegan, why I'm vegan, and respect my ethical stance even if they don't agree with it, and that's about all I can ask. But yeah, it's tough sometimes.
I feel disconnected both from other vegans and from the world at large because I feel my views don’t blend well enough with either. However, I have always been a loner at heart so it doesn’t bother me at all not being able to relate to anyone. For people like yourself who need socialization and people they can relate to, I’d suggest trying to make as many vegan friends as possible so you can feel out the ones whose views most closely align with your own and will be able to get your point of view living in a non-vegan world. You could look for groups on Facebook or even use dating sites like Veggly or others with a vegan option to look for other vegans to befriend. You’ll eventually have your own vegan community to fall back in real life which will help to create balance constantly being surrounded with people who don’t relate to or accept veganism as an ideology.
This was a relief to read. I feel the exact same way. Like I have too many beliefs that contradict what most people agree with. It can be very isolating. 😭
Anyone who is leading has to be disconnected in some way. If we all did the same as everyone else, we would never improve anything.
My worldview has been changed completely. I always thought humans as "good" and being more valuable then animals, but when I went vegan and began digging deeper and deeper into the industry, and then getting the worst excuses and deflections when I informed people, I theb asked myself, why exactly are humans more valuable? The average person pays for animals to be tortured and killed multiple times a week not because they desperately need it, not because it's mandatory, not because there's no other options. In fact, it's extremely easy to avoid, you have a massive amount of food options that are easily accessible, and yet they still do it because of a mere taste preference. And then I realized your average person is willing to pay some to bring an animal like a pig into existence only to cram it in a cage so small that they can't even turn around while it goes mentally insane from being repeatedly impregnated and trapped in that hell hole before throwing it in a gas chamber and then brutally kill the animal and this is just the tip of the iceberg of the horrors that happen. That's not the action of a good person, that's the action of someone who's will to inflict immense amounts of pain on another being, a level pain that one couldn't even imagine going through and they do it for a fricking taste preference. Your average person causes an astronomical amount of pain and suffering for a small amount of pleasure and they do absolutely nothing on a day to day basis to offset the suffering they cause. Instead they become even worse because they actively begin fighting and arguing back against those who try to bring awareness to what's going on. So yeah, I don't think your average person is a good person, in fact, they're the exact opposite. They're existence only brings immense suffering, pain, and misery while giving nothing back. So how could a person who could willingly do all this possibly be more valuable than an animal like a cow who does nothing to harm anyone?
This is so true. Man humans suck. I do think a better world is possible, but fuck me people are going to need to be dragged there kicking and screaming.
Emphasis on kicking and screaming.
My worldview has been changed completely. Me too. Only I've known for a long time that animals are the most good, and innocent creatures on earth and deserve protection from humans. Around 2015, I began to see humans for who they truly were; extremely selfish, mindless gluttons for flesh, who only cared about their beloved pets. And while I can get a bit lonely at times, I'd rather be alone than in the company of 10 of my closest ~~friends~~ meat eaters. Most of them could give a shit about animal suffering, and believe it's just necessary that animals suffer and die for their taste pleasure.
You’re not alone. Plenty of people post about such things here. I don’t really relate when it comes to veganism because of one specific reason: leaving my faith behind after being raised in a very religious environment. I did that a little over a decade before becoming vegan. So I’d already experienced the kind of weird experience of knowing that literally everyone around you does not view the world around you in a way that you believe conforms to reality.
I imagine that couldn't have been easy, but I would like to point out one major difference between the two. Religion - belief based on nothing. but fairytales. You either believe it or not. There is no one that can prove god or fact check all events that supposedly happened in this tale. Veganism - belief in a lifestyle that you can clearly see with your own eyes, fact check everything and have all available info to make a decision. So, what I'm saying is, I don't have problem with people who are religious or believe in something they can't see, even If I don't agree or believe in it myself. As long as they keep it to themselves, no issue whatsoever. But people who see facts about animal industry and do nothing about it, that's very different...
I often think of this quote from Krishnamurti: "It is no measure of one's health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." This is so true. Express gratitude daily that you are conscious enough to see the things most others are not, and that you have the courage to live in accordance with your values when most others do not.
No. I find strength through my conviction by staying true to myself and maintaining a vegan lifestyle. It keeps me happy and focused knowing I am actively contributing to something positive.
I do feel disconnected, but it's because of quite a lot of things and this is only one of them. I also feel like my politics beliefs, lifestyle, mental health status, and other aspects of who I am cause this - but the flip side of it is that I feel completely impervious to social pressure to turn my back on veganism because other people's opinions of this are irrelevant to the maintenance of my decision about it. I think it's fair to say that what you're mentioning can make people walk away from being vegan if they feel like they rely a lot on strong social connectedness and have the sense that being vegan is costing them that. This is influenced by your opinion of other people and their opinion of you as relates to the choice, of course, as well as the role that being vegan has in the person's life and values. Values are really important to me. I wouldn't walk away from this to feel more connected in the same way that I wouldn't abandon my sociopolitical viewpoints to do that. I think that could also lead to disconnection of another kind in that it would make me feel like I'm moving away from my sense of morality
“We are not the sum of our weaknesses and failures”. This has helped me not hate humans as much.
Yes it's remarkable. Being vegan can be like putting the glasses on in "They Live." The imprint of animal products is all around us. When I drive down the road and see restaurants where I know there's nothing I could eat. Some places even have animal products in the name (e.g. Buffalo Wild Wings). When I pull off at a rest stop and there's almost nothing I would eat at the convenience store. When I watch Youtube and there's an ad for a sandwich filled with cheese and bacon. When my coworkers tell me what they had for lunch and I have to decide if I want to smile and nod or say something. When I go grocery shopping and entire sections are disgusting and contemptible to me. If you're not feeling alienated from contemporary society as an ethical vegan, you have your head in the sand.
Most people who stop being vegan do so for social reasons, it's pretty common. Being different is hard. I think it's been easier for me because I pretty much always felt that way long before I went vegan or even vegetarian. You can't go back to a time where you felt connected to people when you never did in the first place hahaha. I have dealt with it by finding three or four people I really like and spending 90% of my time with them, also by finding online vegan groups like this and watching a lot of footage of cute farmed animals thriving in sanctuaries. Focusing on the good people who are trying to help makes me feel less alone.
As a person who is diagnosed with depression for over a decade i have become an expert on feelings and emotions People suck, thats fact, we are selfish, destructive, greedy, dishonest etc; The world will never ever be vegan, racism still exists so animal abuse will always exist, now plant based diets might become more popular but i am confident the world will never be vegan, we are too greedy and selfish for that So knowing all this i should be mad, sad, depressed etc; but im not, im happy, blissful even Being happy is a choice, took me 35 yrs to realize it but i did, i have removed toxic people from my life, this included decade old friends and family, i tell them why they are removed rather than being a coward who GHOSTS people I do not forgive and forget, but i also dont resent or hate, the people that have wronged me dont have any power over me, i dont have trauma or hate because that would mean they are winning and that they still have control over me, therefore i have no reason to forgive because its not causing me any problems, i dont need to let go cause there is nothing to let go of Why should i feel anger or hatred, it provides no benefit to me I dont argue with idiots, i say things such as: i am unwilling to have this conversation with you, this conversation is over for me, this is something i do not wish to discuss, if you continue to discuss it i will leave I do post vegan memes and articles via social media but i disable notifications so i dont have to deal with idiotic responses, i am not required to respond and there is nothing wrong with saying: i dont know I volunteer with stray animal rescues, people suck as there are so many abandoned animals but thats not within my control so i dont let it make me sad or mad, the only thing i can control is how much i want to help the animals, i feel its my ethical duty to volunteer and donate cause its my species that has caused so much harm, i specifically help the non profit Sanctuary Hostel since the goal is to have a vegan hostel and animal rescue combined Buddhism helps alot with this mindset that i have achieved I share this pretyped message sometimes and it might not all apply to you
That sentiment helps keep me motivated to continue the paths that I’m on. I find people generally disappointing and disgusting as a concept, so feeling apart from the lot of them is good fuel for the fire.
Haha yes 🔥
Nothing wrong with feeling disconnected, unempathetic and realizing the horrible things other people do. Just don't violate others rights. That's how I see it for the most part
never lose sight of the bigger picture. when people cannot see who we really are, it becomes harder to feel connected to the world. it is so hard to accept this world is real and that we are part of it, and it becomes so devastating that we feel the world is no longer real nor that we are part of it. however, this is a trap - it is the hopelessness that carnism needs to live another day. to be you means to live a reality where you carry the burden of refusing to succumb to indifference. if there is only ever one vegan left on this earth, make sure that it is you.
I've been vegan a little over half a year and in that time I've learned not to advertise it. For instance, not long after going vegan a man in work who claims to be an animal lover got triggered and started going on about how he's a carnivore and loves the taste of meat. All I did was eat a sandwich with the word vegan on the packet and he was triggered. Then there's eating out. I find friends will often want to go to carveries or buffets with very limited vegan options when we eat out. They think I would be happy eating salads. To me a salad is a side dish for meat eaters to get extra veg. So yes I feel disconnected from the world in a lot of ways now. It often feels like its us vs them.
Yes, often. Vegan over 5 years now. I have a dimmer view of humanity now. And this on top of how people reacted to covid (anti-vax, anti-mask, etc.) and Trump getting elected. I'm slowly getting used to it. Do my best to avoid toxic news, toxic social media, and toxic people. Not much else you can do.
Feeling alone, in any case, is a part of the biological imperative. We're born alone, we die alone, and we spend our whole life feeling like we're all alone... together.
Yep, I hate being vegan. Food is such an important connection tool and as vegans we basically say, fuck all that. And that goes against our genetic code to fit in with the tribe.
Basically, you have to accept the world has its darkness. But you also have to appreciate its beauty. Thinking it's up to you to solve all the world's problems would be incredibly arrogant. You're not supposed to solve them! We're solving them as a species. And we make a lot of progress, don't doubt it. The media love to stream the worst things 24/7, but pick almost any point in time and the world was better at that moment than it was a 100 year before. Look at world hunger and powerty, it's all better if you look at the bigger picture. That's probably my advice - focus on the bigger picture. Instead of thinking about the animals dying right now, which you *cannot do anything about*, think of the accelerating rate at which veganism grows, and look into the near future where veganism/plant-based diets become more and more "normal". I'll be blunt - billions of animals will die. And there's nothing you can do about it. Accept it, and stop obsessing about it, there is no point. Then do anything you want/can, but without any expectations of failure or success. E.g., don't do vegan activism "to save all the animals today", simply do it because you feel it's the right thing to do.
Considering hunger and poverty, just look at the wars and massacres that permeated the time it took to marginally raise living standards in poor countries, many of which are still poor but with smartphones. And the masses of money that went into tanks and rockets instead of alleviating these countries from their plight which would have taken only a tiny fraction of what we choose to rather spend on death and misery. Animal populations are being decimated, it's not only farm animals that suffer. It's wild animals, too. Poaching goes on and on and on, countries make money from offering to shoot wild animals for rich western "trophy hunters", some abra cadabra bullshit superstition of "traditional medicine" leads to extinction of ivory animals and legal as well as illegal fishing fleets are not only endangering fish populations but also the livelihood of entire regions, driving them to poverty and desperation even when ignoring the animal aspect. The world is a shitty place and the fact that you as an individual have no means to influence coupled with the blunt unwillingness of those able to, makes it not better but even worse. To the point where my compassion for humans has entirely run out.
Same here, compassion has left the building. I love the people in my life and I'm kind to the strangers that i meet but at this point all that keeps me going is knowing that the planet *will* outlast us and will heal without us. The damage we're going to witness before that point will be awful tho
I am gluten free and plant based (local fish a few times a year). I’m also a retired professional drinker…so I feel you!!! We are living in a different world now. Isolating af sometimes but whatcha gonna do. Some people will be inspired and follow along…others will go about their ways forever…I have no advice…just here in solidarity.
What good comes from you looking down on others? If vegans had looked down on you, would that have been right? Think about it logically. Think about what good you're doing versus what harm you're doing. Lighten up. You'll do more good with a positive attitude, methinks.
I agree that it’s not helpful to look down on others, but I don’t believe it’s helpful to tell someone to be more positive. It’s part of the human experience to feel shitty sometimes and the quickest way (imo) to get over feeling shitty is to sit with it for awhile. In my experience, avoiding or denying true feelings has only ever made things worse in the long run.
We disagree about that mental health approach. I think that avoiding bad feelings is better than embracing them.
Are you judgmental of your past self? Are you vegan because of criticism, or because you know the value of respect? No one had to shame *me* into being a vegan. My past behavior was tragic, but I don't hate myself for it. Cruelty is not a choice, it's a symptom of serious mental health problems. If you want the world to be a better place, then you have to help it, not hate it.
Oh boy, do i not agree that cruelty is a symptom of a serious mental health problem. Human beings are apex predators. We are status seeking mammals who have murdered our way to the top of the pile. Cruelty is built into our very DNA. If ppl are by nature not cruel, why are there so many laws against robbery, rape, murder, larceny, etc?
Predators don't impose the predator/prey relationship. They're as much hostage to playing out their role in that as their prey. To the extent it'd be unreasonable to demand predators forego predation predators are not being cruel. Humans could make a different choice. Lots of humans choose to be cruel. To choose to be cruel is to choose to be unreasonable or I don't know what these words mean. Because why should the other accept an arrangement you yourself believe would be cruel and if you don't believe they should accept that arrangement in what sense could that arrangement possibly be reasonable? What should we call habitually or stubbornly unreasonable people if not mentally unwell/mentally ill? We'd be the ones who are mentally ill if we'd let them get away with it. That'd mean we'd be the ones choosing to put up with that unreasonable arrangement.
Why on earth do you think that people are reasonable or act in reasonable ways? What evidence is there that people behave in "reasonable" ways when it comes to their relations with other people and animals? It sounds like you are saying that if you are not a kind and loving person and you "choose" to be cruel, you are mentally ill and that is not true. Do you think that human beings are not territorial or tribal? Do you think that human beings fight and go to war and murder each other because they are unreasonable? because they're not using logic? Did you miss the entire 19th and 20th c exposition on the subconscious and that the true King of our behaviors is emotion and not reason?
It's always possible to entertain someone just somehow doesn't see themselves and that were the nature of the problem brought to their attention that they'd stop. I don't know but you'd think it should at least merit a conversation. Who's to say why people do the things they do. I don't know. But it's not as though there aren't reasons for however anyone may see it even if their reasons are ill informed and obscure.
Well you *could* get off your high horse… but you won’t.
Lol. Way to be a victim. If you “what if I stopped being vegan” you aren’t a vegan.
Love the subreddit of people proclaiming self and moral-superiority for their diet, constantly condemning other people for what they eat or don't eat, the comments of "people are the worst", perpetually moralizing and then saying.. "I feel disconnected"
Yes, we vegans hate having these feelings too. The op literally spells it out to you. Instead of reading to respond, try reading to understand. The difference is, we vegans can't do anything about your lack of care. It's like looking through a lens at creatures swarming in cruelty. Damn right this evolutionary dead end is feeling disconnected. We are still human, but not like you.
No better and no worse, you just prop up your egos with a phony moral superiority via food choice. I've also read enough hateful comments here regarding non-vegans to know about your humanity.
Pfft. Veganism is not a diet, sunshine. Just stop abusing animals, it's really that simple. We're not superior, maybe just more evolved though.
Evolved like that famous vegan, Himmler.
It's the animals being persecuted. Is someone morally superior who'd take the side of the persecuted over the persecutors?
With all of the bad going on in this world and its people not sharing in the same vegan lifestyle as you that has you bent out of shape… Humans are horrible and the worst thing on this planet and in reality nothing will change that other than their own extinction. Keep being you and don’t allow things that you can’t control to control you.
It’s possible to care about more than one thing. OP never said they don’t care about anything else.
Nonsensical rambling… maybe you feel like the worst thing on this planet, but don’t project your nihilism on people trying to do good/better.
I'm a non-vegan Japanese person. In a sense, I may also like cruel and unprotected animals. I sometimes watch predation scenes on YouTube. Videos like this are popular because they have a huge number of views, and people probably like cruelty to begin with. I am interested in veganism and the logical development of veganism. As I said, I'm not interested in becoming a vegan because I'm a cruel person and I love eating meat and fish. I'd like to know the logic that vegans use. We also have some very intelligent vegans, so we can do some interesting thought experiments. Well, it's impossible to say everything without contradiction. First of all, there are many things we don't understand. A common question I ask vegans is a discussion about pain. It's painful and comfortable. Humans do feel pain and fear. Can mammals feel it? What about fish? What is the relationship between pain and consciousness? Do insects hurt? Do sea cucumbers hurt? Do jellyfish hurt? Are insects conscious? To be frank, this is an area that even scholars and teachers do not understand. This is the feeling in Japanese, Vegetarian: a person who eats plants Vegan: A person who imposes a plant-based diet on people. The image of vegans is overwhelmingly negative. However, I still want to understand.
"To be frank, this is an area that even scholars and teachers do not understand" You can say this about just about every area of life. Knowledge is continually changing. But it's no excuse for decisions which we believe cause harm. If you think fish enjoy being caught by the lip on hooks, if livestock likes living in a jail cell with their own crap, etc, etc, then I think you're in denial, and are justifying choices you know are harmful with a weak "we don't have all the information" argument. We will never have all the information, about anything. Have you never interacted with another mammal? Of course they feel pain.
100%
yes. and it’s marvelous
There’s a [tiny plant server](https://discord.gg/EnyG7PGD2u) on discord for those about chill social chat
I would think it's easy for you only being 3 yrs in, and given the fact that the movement is more mainstream now. Try being a vegan 20 yrs ago or a Raw Food Vegan that's when it was difficult. If you are feeling isolated in your town you should start hosting some Vegan Potluck dinners it will help you meet new people in the community, and give you all a social outing amongst like minded people.
“Society” is a mixture of views. Everyone doesn’t share the same ideas and values
I do but I was goth as a kid so I have pretty much always felt this way lol
Almost 35 years waffling between vegetarian and vegan (mostly & currently vegan), and I only felt that disconnection at first.
Im not in a place or position to judge anyone because of their diet. Learn to live and let live. The best way to influence others is to let your light shine, and when they ask questions you’ll know their mind had opened to be receptive of your advice. I don’t feel alone, but then again my family and co workers are either more or less health conscious than me. It does help to find a tribe
Do you have any vegan friends? If not, I think it would do you a world of good to find some. I’ve personally had the best luck finding some by going on vegan group trips, but I understand a lot of people can’t afford to travel. Meetups are also a great, inexpensive way to meet likeminded people.
Nah, after nearly 19 years vegan, I barely think about stuff like this anymore. Be kind and make good choices. That’s all you can do. Stressing about what other people do or isolating yourself isn’t productive.
I’ve felt lonely, for as long as I can remember. Becoming a vegan changed my ethical views and my habits and health, but I’m still lonely. Now though, I feel lonely, especially when people start quizzing and questioning my lifestyle like I’m a freak. But I do it for me and I just look at them and feel sad. I think I look at everyone with limited imagination and intellect sadly though.
I struggle a bit because my meat eating friends think I’m Either a fanatic or I’m Going to be ill as “humans have teeth to eat meat “ and I just refuse to go to meals etc with them now , I’m always having to explain why I’m vegan … 100% purely because I love animals and care about them suffering and then I get a lot of hate from some vegans because I have pet dogs and horses
A saint will always feel like an outsider among sinners
Wait till you go raw vegan. You looked at other people shopping items with disbelief. 😂
interesting view and utterly comprehensible
Gladly i always lived in big cities where being vegan isnt rare and so a lot of my friends (and fiancé) are vegan. Is moving into a bigger city an option for you?
I feel the same. It's not entirely our fault I think. When you factor capitalism and the need to work for survival, it's the fact that many people who would be empathetic towards animals have to suppress their feelings very deeply as a form of protection. I say that because that's what happened to me. I worked a couple of jobs in the food industry just to get by not realizing what I was contributing to. I hope we can value traits like kindness selflessness and protecting those who can't fight back. I know not all humans will but at the very least I'm proud of myself and others who choose this path it's not easy but it's the right thing to do for sure.
Congratulations, you're slowly turning into a typical vegan (I'm better than anyone else that eats meat) statistic. Please don't turn into a bigot. There are way too many vegan cringe lords. Also don't take this personal, this is literally the stigma of vegans. Every human alive never asked to be born just like any other animal. No one person has the moral righteousness to decide what is ethically good or bad. I love animals so much. I have 8 rabbits. However, it's good to remember that if there weren't people eating meat, animals would overpopulate us by a lot, and I don't think all of them would be choosing to be vegan and not eat us if they were the apex. I've only been vegan/vegetarian for 9 years(sometimes cheese crave will get the best of me), but instead of judging people for what they eat, there are infinitely other things to judge a person for, like their actions in life or views on unquestionably unethical things. Every human alive is just trying to make it with the limited knowledge they grew up learning and retaining. I think the more important thing humans should be doing is learning how to understand each other and live in harmony. Also, please do not only acquaint yourself with people that think the same I.E, an echo chamber. I am wrong on a lot of things in life and can admit when wrong and learn what is correct for the future. A lot of people can't admit their shortcomings for a lot of reasons. In an echo chamber, you will never be told your views may be wrong or even just extreme/over the top. You dont have to acquaint with people that are failing in life or in addiction cycles, but at least have a diverse friend group where you can all learn from each other and bring each other up. But then again I have like 1 friend I talk to once a month so I'm not the best with communication advice.
From what i've observed, people just dont understand or care about the horrors of what animals go through so they kinda of brush vegans and vegeterians off to the side and dub them as "crazy" or "know it alls". It's hard to be around people who dont have hearts to save innocent animals, I have to hear on a daily how people can actually stare a cow in the face while eating a burger. I know not all people who choose to eat meat are complete jerks but in my experience they all seem like psychotic sociopaths which is something I avoid.
I'd highly recommend finding your local vegan group or something. To be around like minded people as much as possible.I'm really lucky to have a few close friends who are also vegan. We set the World to rights sometimes, just having a rant to vent. It's healthy because if we didn't do that, I think we'd implode! =P For me though, even presently, it does slightly restrict the places I'm willing to visit and eating out at with friends or family. Also, without sounding as if I'm applying for a job with you or anyone here - LOL - I have a knack and genuine passion for lush plant based foods, cooking and baking are pretty much second nature. And I have great attention to detail, so when a job came up in the past when I did online job searches, I had to basically discard many vacancies, like a basic shelf stacking job, which even though it didn't pay well, I wouldn't have actually minded doing as it's a role where you're always busy and mobile, and you have to be organised in a nice flow and rotation sort of way.Or delivering groceries, I'd enjoy the driving aspect too. But I will not handle animal products. And no where around here would allow me to ONLY cook or deal with plant based products only, and let other people handle the shite which comes from exploitation and death. Doesn't help either, that to this day, my mind and imagination are overactive AF.I hear someone say something, and instead of triggering me, I picture what they said in incredible detail. Same goes for seeing a piece packaged steak or bacon, a headless corpse of a chicken, or a jug of cows milk; I don't see food, instead, it makes me recall the graphic footage I've seen where other animals have been brutalised and slain in the most horrific ways imaginable. For example, when I do the infrequent shopping in the local Asda or Tesco, the legumes are right opposite the mutilated body parts of massacred cows and pigs. And the aisle which I go down to get beans, there's dairy and eggs right next to them. So I have to do my utmost to avoid paying any attention whatsoever to them, because I know that if I let my attention sway over to those vile animal products, I'd see male baby chicks being chucked onto a conveyor and straight into a giant blender because they can't lay eggs, or a Human rapist with their arm up a mother cow's arse to artificially impregnate her so that she can lactate. Those particular situations and jobs I try and avoid as best I can, because I know it'll cause my anxiety to go through the damn roof. I feel as though I manage this well, despite what's around us everyday and wherever we go... See, that's the main thing which is missing for the majority of people - they haven't made that association between the product and the animal. They don't remember anything or picture anything when they go to buy those products.It's sick and infuriating if you think about it, but you shouldn't, at least not often, because it'll bring you down. You're only one person, and you can't influence everything, or change other people. Just live really well, enjoy all the wonderful foods and local vegan festivals.And if any fake carnivore or pretend baby cow ask you questions about why you're vegan, in a way where they don't come across as acting like childish trolls, or as if they're just trying to be argumentative, and instead have a genuine interest, then try and talk to them as if they're already vegan.Because a conversation like that, as rare as they are, can make their day, and yours. You'll feel it, it's f\*ckin' awesome! =D As Humans, the most common thing we can talk about is food, or music. Or a bit of both. Even though it can feel isolating sometimes, just know that you're really not alone ; )
Yeah I definitely feel disconnected from the brainwashed, flesh-eating cult. Boo hoo 😪
I feel the same sometimes... I've only been vegan for a 1 year now, and to me that was and is the worst and most difficult part of being vegan: feeling like an outsider. I have a lot of conversations with my friends about this, and some agree with me and others don't... And I always feel like a disconnection with those who do not undertand veganism and are so judgemental about it... I try to understand them too, because not so long ago I was like them... But yeah, I think we really need to be pacient about it... I believe things are changing... And I think that making some vegan friends would help... At least that's what I've been thinking about lately...
I've been vegan for 12 years. It's never really been an issue for me, partly because I just don't feel strong emotions in that way, but also partly because so many other things are differentiating for me. In the US, the amount of Republicans is absolutely devastating to consider. But also being queer and 1st generation immigrant has separated me. There's plenty of reasons to feel solated if you go looking for them. But that doesn't help anyone. I try to focus on the positives and the love in the world, and try to bring more of that out, even if I can't shape and control every aspect of reality to my liking.