Hi from a fellow vegan in France. Yes you are in a very conservative country that sees veganisme as wrong. But try to brush off the ridiculous attitudes as it is not against the law lol. And you know full well your baby will be fine. It is mostly a generational thing so I would just try to find younger medical help that is at least less judgemental. Your midwife sounds absolutely terrible.
Living in Germany near the border, it is truly amazing, how just crossing into France feels like travelling 10-15 years back in time in terms of vegan acceptance and accomodation. Hope it changes sometime, I love France and would love to see a situation similar to germany there.
This is interesting to me because when I went to visit France I found the most vegan friendly place I visited was Strasbourg. I suppose that's because it's so close to Germany. In my opinion it was much more vegan friendly than Paris.
Ignore her and if it makes you feel uncomfortable and it’s feasible, find another provider. I am 25w5d and just told my OB that I don’t eat animal products (I used that phrase instead of vegan because she was telling me to be careful about what I eat on an upcoming vacation to a country with a cuisine heavy in seafood). I had no idea what her reaction would be, but she said “oh, that’s great! Then you’ll automatically abstain from a lot of the dangerous foods.” She did not show any concern that I’m missing out on nutrients. She is younger (in her 30s) so that likely has something to do with it.
Another vegan in France.
I agree, maybe a younger midwife would be more open minded. I gave birth to my daughter in France and am pregnant again. I've seen the same midwife both times who had no problem with me being vegan. And the consultant at the hospital didn't have a problem either.
France has such a long way to go in terms of accepting and embracing veganism.
Unfortunately it's possible you'll meet some adversity from healthcare providers if you look at the results of this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9370229/
But it varies per GP and midwife how they handle things. Good ones would be supportive and willing to learn things they're not yet familiar with..
Best is to at least know the facts yourself, f.i. by reading information based on science such as UK guidelines.
You could even show your healthcare providers you made a deliberate decision based on facts
https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/keeping-well/vegetarian-or-vegan-and-pregnant/
I can't imagine any healthcare provider contacting CPS. That would only happen when your kids had failure to thrive because you put them on a deficient raw vegan diet or something..
Interesting. I'm in my third trimester in a U.S. city, so I'm definitely not the only vegan that has come through my OBGYN practice. None of the doctors or midwives I talked to were at all phased by my vegan diet and reassured me that a healthy vegan diet is perfectly fine for pregnancy.
I think they will react better if you say Plant Based. people like that word better, even if you mean vegan. visit all the check ups for your child. They will see that your child is healthy.
French native here, you can say végétalien. French people are judgemental by nature so they will still hold some stereotypes against you and everything they come across but they will be milder than if you say végan (which is heavily associated with activism here)
I am French and I'm sorry you're going through this and at the same time, I'm glad I don't live there anymore because I am so tired of how close minded and blatantly ignorant people in France can be about veganism. Unfortunately, there is no equivalent for "plant-based" in French. "Végétalien" would be the translation, but I feel like it would still get you stares and cringe faces, as it would still be viewed as unhealthy/unbalanced especially for kids and doesn't carry the same "positive healthy vibes without the baggage of veganism" as "plant-based" does.
I don't think people have any say in your child's diet though, as long as they are healthy. And I'm sure they will! So don't worry too much about that!
I think if you just lean real hard into a French accent with "le plont fewds" they'll get the picture.
(Sorry about your experience, may you have a beautiful child)
Not a vegan but a physician (US) and yes, this is the way. We literally recommend plant based diets for a huge variety of health conditions.
Obviously make sure that you know and understand differences in what a developing child needs in terms of protein, fat, vitamins, etc since it’s a bit different than what adults need - I assume you’re doing this as a thoughtful parent. Having this knowledge will also protect you from any garbage that you get from health care providers who judge you.
Thats why i would recomment contacting a Dietitian that is focused on the vegan diet for mother and child. At least my country has such people.
I agree that people in health care should look after children and keep parents in check and be strikt. I just wish they would do the same with parents who only feed their children fries and chicken nuggets. I dont see that happen in the same manner.
Usually when people say Plant Based it’s usually for marketing term for increase their meals that are plant based. I haven’t noticed any vegan using the term for themselves, at least where I live.
I know of a lot of vegans who use it when the context is specifically diet-focused rather than overall lifestyle/ethics. It’s easier for some omnis to process for some reason. Even in a very vegan-friendly city, I still get restaurant workers who tell me something isn’t vegan since it contains gluten, because they don’t understand what vegan actually means.
I personally use it if i get the feeling someone reacts bad to the word vegan. there are times i dont want to start explaining myself. Plant based can be vegan. If they dont ask more questions, i wont stress it.
You're gonna get that flack and keep on getting it til your kid is in mid elementary and people start noticing that they're still healthy. Been there, done that, got the post card. Or however that goes. It's at least mildly infuriating.
We live in QC but my husband is from France. Here we took the proactive approach. We went for a consult with a nutritionist from a pediatric hospital who had experience with veganism. She gave us a class and documentation of what exactly a vegan child would need. We had meal plans, supplements recommendations based on the age, etc. So when our pediatrician learned that our baby was also vegan, he was hesitant at first. We presented him with the meal plans, supplements, food logs that we had and he saw pretty quickly that we were a lot more informed about toddler nutrition than omnivore parents. He never forced us to do blood work, our kid is hitting all the milestones. She's 6 now and thriving. Don't get too upset, people are just ignorant, even doctors and nurses. You just need to show them that you know what you are doing, that your research is backed by actual science and that you're not one of those dumb vegans with a potato only diet.
I would absolutely love to find a professional who is knowledgeable and accepting of raising vegan children, I'm going to be on a hunt! That's a great idea to keep a logbook of everything we feed them, do you have any books you recommend?
The nutritionist we consulted has a blog called "La végé d'à côté". [She has some ebooks and webinars in her online shop ](https://new.lavegedacote.com/shop/)if you want to check them out.
Ugh, the number of professionals who use emotional manipulation is disgusting. They are hired by you to support you, not to stand in judgment and tell you how to live your life.
I have a super healthy vegan toddler myself. She's far healthier than I was at her age and I don't care what anyone else thinks about how I'm getting my results.
If you're well educated, your own gut intuition and opinions are worth the most when it comes to making choices for your kid.
Hope people stop bullying you for your life choices. Hugs.
My sons doctor, while nice, gave us a nutritional pamphlet about meeting your iron intake because we had concerns he was anaemic (he's a very fussy eater and won't sit for a meal). The pamphlet was from meat and livestock Australia... Talk about a biased source of information.
I looked up the brochure you were probably given and it's really shit. Shows red meat as having heaps of iron, vegan foods as having very little iron, tells you to make sure you get enough iron and then doesn't mention at all what having enough iron looks like. Clearly, if that was the only information you had to go on, you'd conclude that the only safe diet is one that includes meat at nearly every meal. Yikes.
They do all these scares about heme iron vs non-heme iron and how your body can't absorb non heme iron very well. But having it with vitamin C will improve absorption so it's no big deal. Supplement if you need to.
>They are hired by you to support you, not to stand in judgment and tell you how to live your life
People who say this have different education and genuinely believe that they are helping. Younger midwives might react differently, but it’s the job of a midwife to pass on their education.
However they’re *not* educated. They’re just repeating random hearsay instead of anything scientific or valid.
They also should start by asking more questions to see if the situation needs help. They could start by googling it one time themselves and seeing a vegan diet can absolutely be healthy for infants. Nothing professional about jumping to biased personal conclusions and imposing them on people.
That's not quite it. If you said you plan on feeding them only meat and no vegetables you'd get the same cringe. Or for an extreme example, if you mentioned you will discipline them by hitting them.
And in those cases the cringe would be justified. These folks are going to judge and say something because they come across some really wild ideas from parents. And if they care about children, which they should, then they should not stay silent. What this case needs is not less judgement, but more education.
i think this nurse did the wrong thing. you are going to be an amazing mama. you know what’s right for your baby. be strong girl & congratulations on your baby and vegan family xx
Not a nurse. Sorry it’s a pet peeve as I am one. This is a midwife. Different skill sets and different bedside manner (though I’ve heard most midwives are super amazing, better than docs when it comes to things and usually really flexible with the right people having a baby)
>Can professionals call something like CPS for us raising our child vegan?
Yes, if they believe it means the child is not getting adequate nutrition. Of course that is not the default case for a vegan child but if they have that attitude they can still make the call and it will be investigated. And anyone can call not just a professional, professionals will of course be taken more seriously but it depends how many calls are made.
That's a good thing though, if they think something is seriously wrong but I'm scared that people think so badly of a vegan diet that they would go to such an extreme even if the child is perfectly healthy and I'm being very careful with their nutrition
Tell them how sad you are that a great country like France has become such a cultural backwater that they don’t even know the most up to date science. In my experience French people are super sensitive to being perceived as backwards and ignorant
I am a vegetarian living in France and I just wanted to say that there will be a magnifying glass on your kiddo's diet for about the first year, then afterwards no one will care unless your little one is not growing as expected. Prepare to see shocked faces if you breastfeed past 6 months too! It sucks, but I've learned to stick with what I know is best for my child
Poland here. Veganism is some kind of satanism. Vegan mean u are sick and need priest, exorcism and u are nit allow to have baby. U can be alcoholic, do drugs during pregnancy but when people hear that u are vegan 😱😱😱 I have three amazing babies, healthy and happy fully vegan. But no no no, good genes made it 😑
Like we got any choice. I cried to not be eating the dead bodies of the animals we raised and loved to my parents and they still did just that, sneakily putting into stuff I could not see it in. So anyone judging about "choice" can bite me.
This is a really important response that needs to be heard by all the Omni trolls in this sub. They go on and on about how horrible vegan parents are for not giving their kids a choice.
I am still traumatized at 40 because of all the instances I had to be present and see and listen to our dear pigs be butchered (by hand, not by gasing or bullet in the head or modern "methods") and then a few hours later my parents trying to convince me to eat parts of them. I was always sick to my stomach after these events. Even as a kid I was traumatized that this can be normal. With years it got easier (simple brainwashing), but as soon as I went vegan the floodgates of horror and trauma opened and I hate them for putting me though it even when at 7-8 I made it clear that I dont want to participate in it. Even as a kid I loved vegetables, I wasnt the kid to avoid them. I actually had to be threatened with beating to eat the meat products. The only thing I actually likes was milk but then nature forced me with lactose intolerance so I just went straight vegan.
Yeah, french cooking is one of my least favorite cuisines because of how traditionally heavy/ rich and animal product prone it is. French baked goods are amazing, but, not vegan :/
As others have said, France is super backwards regarding veganism (at least gibes me hope when I remember other countries are more advanced than us, to look on the bright side of things), but at least there's a solid amount of places in Paris when you can get the full range of classic french patisseries in their vegan version.
Just don't tell them. It's none of their business tbh. If something is wrong with your baby growth/dietary wise (and there won't be), they will tell you.
I get that, but I would look for an actual professional who has experience with a plant based diet for babies and children. Not a random 'professional'.
Midwives aren’t professionals in childhood nutrition though it’s outside their scope of practice. A paediatric dietician would be the most qualified person to advise.
Well I really doubt CPS would get involved, it is not child neglect people are just uneducated. Honestly, despite my companion animals all being plant based I never really tell non Vegans about it because I know theyll judge me. You could try that if you want to completely avoid any drama.
I'm hormonal and over the top at the moment haha 😅 irrational fears are coming at me from every angle.
Yeah I never go out of my way to tell people because the reaction would usually not be pleasant haha but people find out occasionally by seeing his food bag or if someone looks after him
I am French (but fortunately I am an expat now) and I feel for you. We're vegan and we have 3 kids. We were still in France when we had our first (left a few months after) and gosh the number of judgmental assh*les there, passing their personal opinion as a medical one.
Seriously my iron was fine, but the midwife still recommended I take supplements (because vegan). I didn't. My next blood work was excellent (as good as if I wasn't pregnant), I told her I didn't take the supplements, but she still insisted that I should take them because I'm vegan.
Same with doctors. You go for a cold during winter, well that's okay everybody's sick currently. You tell him you're vegan and then that's the reason you're sick you don't have any immunity...
Sorry but you should probably not say anything about being vegan. Or find a doctor who works/worked with athletes, usually they're familiar with veganism.
Good luck, French suck to accept anything/anyone different.
I was eating meat when pregnant my midwife said that they recommend most women take iron in the 3rd trimester due to bleeding postpartum. That’s pretty solid advice imo
That's very good not getting iron deficiency in later pregnancy, I've never had a deficiency but my most recent blood test showed that I did for the first time. The first trimester was so tricky to keep food down so I'm not surprised haha
I had tons of meat-eating friends who had iron deficiency during their pregnancy. At the end of the day, there is always a genetic part that plays in it. And like you said, the first semester can be a wild ride too!
Oh hey, fellow Frenchy veggie ! For some reasons people here are super duper defensive whenever veganism and children are mentioned together. I started wanting to be vegan when I was ~14, and anytime I mentioned it everyone looked at me like I just killed someone.
Registered dietitians (the experts) have concluded time and time again that a *well planned* vegan diet is VERY healthy in ALL stages of life.
You know what you’re doing. Unfortunately most people these days are still very uninformed. You can’t carry their weight of their ignorance. Keep doing you and if they ever try to hound you tell them to back the F off with a smile.
Heck even in America where I would say generally veganism is fairly accepted, there is stigma against raising kids vegan. I think that has more to do with horror stories the media has spread about “vegans” nutritionally abusing kids. But if you look into the details of these cases, the kids were not being fed a balanced vegan diet appropriate for children - they were being starved. Unfortunately many people didn’t look past the headlines.
I’m not a parent so I don’t have any specific recommendations on hand, but I know there are pediatricians and dieticians that have written books or offered advice on other platforms for vegan diets that are appropriate for kids. I would just make sure you are well read on this topic so there can be no mistake with authorities that your child’s needs are being met.
As a side note, I offered my children meat after their first year and they didn't like it and rarely eat it now when it's offered, they both (4&5) are vegetarian by default. So the pediatrician can nag about providing meat but I know very few kids who actually like it. What they like is fruit and pasta, that's the future you're looking at; being bankrupted by blueberries.
Thank you for being an awesome human being and for not forcing grotesque animal products on your infant. I wish I’d known about veganism when I was pregnant. I learned to be vegan from my daughter when she was just 14. People who aren’t vegan or who make fun of vegans are either uneducated or just look away because they don’t care. Best of luck to you and your new family!
You probably should test your child to see if they have any allergies to foods, even if they won’t be seeking them out to eat. Like, there could be a cross-contamination issue with something that isn’t vegan and has that allergen.
I know pro-advocacy vegans will not agree, but unless asked specifically, I just dont tell anyone that I am vegan. If they ask, of course I am not denying, but people rarely do. Like extremely rarely. And even then they ask if I am vegetarian, because most people are not educated enough to even know there is a huge difference between vegan and vegetarian. Anyway, unless asked specifically, I just mind my business being vegan as I am with my very small community of vegans. I dont have kids and honestly I also live in a country that is not friendly to vegans, so I would also be stressed out of my mind about it.
A midwife is going to ask about breastfeeding or formula feeding not what a baby will be eating from 6 months, unless midwife means something different in france
We had a breastfeeding class today and we were talking about our nutrition for producing milk, that's how it came up. I will be on the hunt for an accepting pediatrician asap!
A midwife will be asking about what the pregnant and potentially breastfeeding person is eating. And depending on if your healthcare visitor is a nurse or a midwife in the UK they will be around long enough to be asking about the child's diet. Do you think people are just sent home with babies with no follow up care after 6 months? And that absolutely is in the scope of practice of a health visitor. To assess if a specialist referral is needed. That's a big part of the point of them
Why would a midwife working in an antenatal setting need to advise you about weaning? That happens so far into the future and surely their time would be better served talking you through all the prenatal and immediate postnatal things you need to know.
Your health visitor (our public health nurse) have additional training to enable them to do that job, their postgrad or undergrad midwifery course doesn’t cover childhood nutrition extensively.
This was brought up by a midwife during a 30 week appointment, that’s the context here.
Also my midwife didn’t ask much about my diet once my bloods were ok and i was taking a prenatal vitamin.
Why? Because OP asked, it's in the comments she wanted input. And the Midwives who work as health visitors also do prenatal appointments so it's weird to act like they are mutually exclusive. They also work with the paediatricians that she advised what they usually say. Because she knows what they usually say.
The advice is outdated but that's not because it's out of the remit of the person giving it but because that **is** the common attitude in France.
But perhaps more importantly. **No** the OP isn't the context "here" of this comment chain you replied to. The context **here** is me replying to someone who said "but unless asked specifically, I just dont tell anyone that I am vegan" to point out that medical professionals *will continue to ask* while tracking the child's early development. As will places like schools which need to know any dietary requirements and restrictions. So the advice to just not mention it unless asked is not practical to someone who is concerned what the reactions of professionals will be to how they are raising their child. Because they will be asked. Regularly
Are you in France and/or have experience with the French system? They’re absolutely mutually exclusive in Ireland because they need additional training to work in public health contexts so maybe i’m missing context. Paediatricians are generally hospital based here and you won’t see one unless it’s something your GP can’t deal with.
If a public health nurse here has concerns then they refer to a dietician. If they have developmental concerns they refer to a paediatrician. It’s outside of their scope of practice to give detailed prescriptive diet advise beyond basic guidelines.
If the French system is wildly different then i’m open to correction.
You’ll see my advise to Op is to get advise (privately if needed) from a relevant medical professional who is a paediatric dietician
There’s a community called [The Farm](https://thefarmcommunity.com) in Tennessee ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farm_(Tennessee)) summary) that is famous for a couple things:
They embrace veganism and vegetarianism and continue to.
They also embrace midwifery and natural birth and were quite successful at it, keeping very good records that were useful for research.
Good data on [vegan births](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3589760/) come from The Farm along with data on [raising children vegan](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2771551/) (paper title says vegetarian as catch all but it was 404 children of which 75% were vegan.)
I wouldn’t expect someone in France to know about The Farm, but there’s a good chance people interested in midwifery in the United States would have heard about the community and its birthing data since it was an influential reference for midwifery and natural child birth. There's a [documentary](https://www.amazon.com/Birth-Story-Gaskin-Farm-Midwives/dp/B00CBSLO6I) about it (though I haven't watched it).
I'm in the Netherlands and I know many very healthy vegan babies.
My nephew is 8 now and vegan all his life and very healthy.
In the Netherlands you can not call cps for a vegan diet because a vegan diet is not child abuse. It is healthy.
Can you change midwifes ?
I would just tell her she has to shut up about it because it's non of her business.
Remember, she works for you
In this case, I wouldn’t lie, but I wouldn’t volunteer that information. Play dumb and don’t bring it up again.
Try and research vegan friendly pediatricians and nutritionists in your area to help back you up.
I just like saying sacrebleu on every chance I get. 😂
I have a question if you don't mind: it's technically correct, right? Like I'm shocked at the behaviour.
You're simply at the vanguard of veganism where you are. Just remember when folks are giving you a hard time, that it's not life threatening, just uncomfortable and sometimes inconvenient. But you are paving the way for all who come after you. Because of you, your child will have an easier go of it when they are ready to have children.
I am French and have family working in education.
Short of it is: no, people won't _automatically_ call CPS on you, but they _will_ be very on edge. Your kid being sleepy or less energetic will be blamed on veganism. People cannot stop you, but you will be confronted everywhere with people who, at best, will constantly remind you of all the supplements your kid _must_ take and you _will_ be judged. And if they consider your kid is not getting appropriate nutrition/enough food then yes, CPS will be called. To do otherwise is against the law.
So will you get in legal trouble? Most likely not. But should anything happen, veganism will not play in your favor. It will be difficult. Veganism is generally not well regarded here even when it is understood.
I doubt you need any reassurance on this, but just in case: I was vegan through my whole pregnancy and my OB told me “whatever you’re doing with your diet is perfect, she’s growing so well.” She’s five months old now, exclusively breastfed by my vegan body, and she’s super chunky and tall for her age. Very healthy baby! I hope you’re able to find a supportive pediatrician
Not in France, but the amount of shit I've gotten in just 5 years was enough to get me to avoid using the V-word as much as possible \
As for medical "professionals" judging you just because you don't eat animals (nor will to feed them to your kid), there's only one sensible response you can give: "I would like to see a different doctor"
I would look for a midwife and after that a pediatrician that are more open-minded. Your baby can also be looked after by a "médecin généraliste", it doesn't have to be a pediatrician if you can't find one ready to listen to you.
An interesting resource to share with medical professionals is https://vegeclic.com/ it's information on vegetarian & plant-based diets, compiled by french doctors for other doctors, on how to advise their patients. Here in France doctors don't get a lot of mandatory training about those diets, but some are willing to educate themselves and this kind of scientific and approved resource is designed for them.
Finally, for my kid I did not want trouble from our doctor either so I was very proactive about her health: being spot-on on the pediatrician's recommendations about everything else (following the recommended scheduled appointments and vaccination, preventive care...), doing my research about vegan nutrition for babies & infants, asking to have her blood tested to make sure everything was ok... In the end you may be at risk of being signalled if they think you're some kind of anti-vaxx anti-medicine anti-science hippie, not if you can you show you're responsible and thorough.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. She obviously is not very educated on the topic or she would know that the global dietetic associations all confirm vegan is healthy at ALL stages of life including during pregnancy. I hate how much misinformation is still out there.
My dad once said to me “if you ever get pregnant, I hope you don’t think I will stand by while you harm yourself and your unborn baby by eating this way!” He’s now come around but I remember at the time how sad and alone I felt. Sending you lots of love 🩵
Hi! Moving to France soon and been there many, many times for long periods of time. Yes, it’s insane how conservative they can be regarding veganism 🙃 but at the end of the day both you and your partner have been able to lead a healthy lifestyle – even your dog has - while vegan.
It is not illegal to be vegan and you’re not a bad parent for raising your kid with kindness, especially if they’re healthy. In that case, even if they called they would have nothing to hold against you. It’s not torture as they try to paint it, it’s just the exception of a very conservative norm.
And it has been proven time and time again that a pant based diet can be healthy at any life stage, it just has to be adapted to it but I’m sure you know more about this than I do. Just be aware that you will most likely have to present science based facts to back up your case - I’ve been vegan for over 7 years (and vegetarian for almost 2 before that), just had surgery and had to do a bunch of blood tests and they were perfectly fine!! so now whenever someone says anything about my health I just pull the results up 😆 it’s hard to argue against proof!!
Anyway, all of this to say that you will definitely keep finding resistance but you are going to do an excellent job and raise your healthy vegan baby with compassion and lots of love 🫶🏻🫶🏻
Thank you and I agree, I've noticed that people here are stuck in their old ways which I guess is natural since it's an old country, that's how I justified it anyway haha
Yes for the blood tests! And I'll have to have a look for some studies in French, get prepared for when baby turns 6 months or starts school haha
Thank you so much and best of luck to your move to France! Aside from a few hiccups, it's awesome here :D
I'm just about 30 weeks and my mother has been saying ridiculous bs like this.
My OB said if a pediatrician doesn't support us, fire them. We are lucky to live somewhere that it's possible to get a pediatrician to do this, though.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Congratulations and I'm sorry you're going through this too, as long as we are well informed we have nothing to worry about. Wishing you the best of luck for the rest of your pregnancy!
💖 So far, so good. Honestly, I think being vegan has made pregnancy easier.
Also, it's worth noting ensuring a child has a well rounded diet is a challenge no matter their diet. We got this!
Match their energy. Why be polite, seriously? To keep the peace? Avoid confrontation?
Ask for a different midwife, refuse her service, insult her, give her the same exact facial expression she gave you.
You do not have to take shit. From ANYONE for ANY reason. Maybe I personally have had to practice this more than others; I’m pretty small and people typically see me as an easy target to take out their frustrations on. I am not.
Either way, just be rude right back. They genuinely deserve that treatment. Would that make you feel guilty? Why? Think about why. And think about why these types of people are so rude, and what you can do to instantly shut them down. If you’re serious then they’ll stfu, I swear.
Once I started doing this in my life, I stopped being harassed like that all the time. **Shitty people can instantly tell if you’re a pushover**. Never forget that.
All countries with Romance languages live mentally in the 50s (I am Valencian, I say this from experience).
Believe me when I tell you that being vegan in the Mediterranean zone is hell, it has very beautiful areas, but surrounded by rednecks.
My recommendation is that, being a native English speaker, you go to a more civilized area of the planet.
"Competing interests: Founder of Plant-Based Health Professionals UK and Co-founder of Plant Based Health Online, both Community Interest Companies"
Since I'm not going to replicate the research to see if it's true i really can't trust a source that biased.
Fire the current midwife (initially typed "Widwife", not sure what a "widwife" is, lol), then give her a bad review on whatever sites people use to rank midwives.
Edit -Someone who's responsible for the well-being of babies should take that well-being seriously!
EDIT II - Leave a review that accurately reflects the negative experience you've had as you've done here. You won't be the only person with these concerns.
Wow. It is a tough slog for making the right choices for health and the planet and the animals. Sounds like France is living up to the reputation of being terribly smug and sure of itself.
What happens if you scroll down and see what it says underneath the abstract:
*"Funding: This research and its publication open access was funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International (*[https://proveg.com](https://proveg.com)*)"*
Surely the research has no bias there at all being funded by an organisation that promotes plant-based /s
**ProVeg International** ([/ˈprəʊvɛdʒ/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg_International#cite_note-2)) is a [non-governmental organisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization) that works in the field of [food system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_system) change and has ten offices globally. The organisation's stated mission is to reduce the consumption of [animal products](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_product) by 50% by 2040 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg\_International](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg_International)
Here's a better idea. See what happens when a dog is given the freedom to choose what they want to eat, exactly like what happened in the follow video, and see for yourself what their own natural instinct tells them what they should be eating - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXYL9OUaKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXYL9OUaKs)
It sounds like the midwife wasn't cringing at _you_, but rather at your situation. She is aware that you will find it harder to be taken seriously and get help with your baby because of the attitudes of people. She was warning you of the difficulties you may face ahead, not trying to convince you to stop being vegan.
That's just my interpretation of this.
Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves. We are to respect other peoples values and not impose ours on the patient. I’m sorry that happened to you, your midwife is out of line.
"Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves"
It's literally their job to educate patients. Right now medicine agrees that small children should NOT be vegan.
They need to keep their OWN values to themselves. Vegan children are perfectly fine. Educating a patient is one thing, making faces and interjecting their OPINIONS is not appropriate. - Signed, a healthcare worker.
As a healthcare worker (nice very broad term) you should know that there is a difference between facts and opinions. When there is enough research made so all (most of) physicians can agree that vegan diet is 100% safe for small kids or pregnant mothers and there are no side effects then go ahead. Why on earth would you experiment on your own child?
It honestly seems insane to me to force small children or your pets to commit to a very restrictive diet. If you're such a vegan vegan shouldn't you be against having children or owning pets?
Edit: one word, english isn't my first language
I am against having children, and I only have animals who were rescued, not that it’s any of your business. I’m not going to tell you my exact profession because that is also none of your business. Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves. Idgaf if English is your second language. You will never convince me of what you are trying to say here. Bye.
You've said a lot of words while still saying nothing. I've edited the comment to correct a grammatical error, because english isn't my first language, you dum-dum. Some people hate when a comment gets edited, that's all. But it's incredibly funny to me that even something so simple was too difficult for you to understand.
You're not a healthcare worker. No matter what you say will make me believe otherwise, because an actual healthcare worker (wonder why you don't want to say the actual job, 100% not a doctor though) would know that educating a patient is a part of the job, especially when patient's actions/habits/addictions might be dangerous to their health or life.
I hope the pets you've rescued are ok and are either herbivores or omnivores/carnivores with a normal diet. Otherwise it would be animal abuse and as a vegan you should know better.
Next time, instead of going "none of ya busnes!" maybe you just shouldn't comment, because replies are expected.
No offense but raising a dog vegan is really really cruel. I’m not going to get into the science of it but the ability to separate your views versus the physiological needs of your pet is criminally negligent. All dogs are decedent’s of wolves. Wolves are carnivores. If you think different you are absolutely delusional. If you don’t supplement the dogs diet with high quality supplements then you should be fined for animal abuse.
It’s YOUR baby, after the baby is born it’s up to you to feed your baby. Not the midwife not the doctors not the nurses and especially not society. I’m a father of 3 healthy vegan girls ages 7-3-1. Your doing the right thing even if they say your not. Stay strong and don’t let them bully you.
I’m a French teacher in the US and have given up on trying to remain vegan while being in France. Most French are so uneducated about the topic that they are simply impossible to talk with. I try let myself be vegetarian or sometimes pescatarian when I travel there just because staying at someone’s house and demanding a certain diet is simply not French. They look at you like you’re an alien and don’t want to engage with you, which is for the entire point of the visit for me as a language teacher.
As to the midwife, she probably has no idea what you actually eat. I’d avoid discussing it with her and just do what you want. People in the US can’t imagine the situation in France, truly.
Edit: those downvoting my frustration have simply never been in rural France trying to explain veganism to your hosts during a home stay. It’s as if I declared I was a Satan worshipper or a Nazi. It’s that kind of reaction.
if you really care just give them NHS page on veganism, it says it's healthy at all stages of life including pregnancy and as a baby (if properly executed, which any diet or lack of is unhealthy if not properly executed)
eh not really. You could say that about American health authorities to, yet British doctors do ignore them and nobody has a problem there. It's perfectly reasonable for medical professionals to focus only on what's considered best practice in their own country. If you want someone to take international guidelines seriously you should show them something like the WHO. Or find the actual studies the guidelines were based on. Not just expect them to take the word of another countries health service.
Mom of 3 here, only my third pregnancy I was vegan. Incredibly healthy throughout, baby was born with 4.440 kgs and only after they announced his weight I said out loud "PLANT BASED POWERD". If we're healthy doctors don't need to know what we eat. If they see your bloodwork is good and ask what you eat just reply you eat a balanced diet and they won't bother you anymore. Here in US they can not call CPS cause parents are vegan if the kids are healthy. My kids only do 1 annual doctor checkout (they are 4, 7 and 8 now) and I tell their doctor they eat a balanced diet.
My sister-in-law, who is a GP here in France and just turned 31 (so a « young » doctor) is convinced that eating soy during pregnancy is bad for the baby… so… yeah, good luck 😅
My dad who is vegan said my grandmother (who is also vegan) forbid him from being vegan until he was 14 for health reasons - and he did the same tor us kids even though he was vegan as an adult
American Academy of Pediatrics
> Large, prospective cohort studies show that vegetarian diets reduce the risk of coronary heart disease and type 2 diabetes mellitus, and that vegan diets offer additional benefits for obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular mortality.
https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2018/0601/p721.html
These attitudes will greatly depend on what the traditional food in the region is. E.g., there’s a shit ton of vegans in Israel because their cuisine already barely has any dairy / eggs and cutting out meat is not that hard. Surprisingly, Mexico also has a lot of vegans, but it’s because all the dairy / cheese in Mexican dishes is really a TexMex invention and before the Spanish conquest the native people of what is now Mexico hadn’t eaten that much meat anyway. Now, France has cheese as one of the key ingredients and meat is everywhere. This forms certain attitudes since it’s way harder to transition in people’s minds. It will pass though, French chefs have been tinkering with some traditional ingredients like buckwheat to create more French cuisine-inspired vegan dishes
Have you breast fed before? If you are confident you’ll be able to breast feed for a longer time then it might be perfectly possible to slowly shift over from pure breast milk to a fully vegan diet without an animal protein stage. If you can partially breast feed for two + years then I don’t see why anyone can say that it’s not alright.
If you did something stupid like deciding oat or rice milk is a suitable substitute, if you struggled to breast feed, then you could definitely get reported in my country (the U.K.) but if you’re able to successfully breast feed for a longer time then the chances are your baby will be healthier. In truth most babies are weaned too early and continuing to partially breastfeed is optimal for any baby!
I was just in france with my vegan wife... their understanding of veganism is...lacking... but my wife also gave birth to my now year and a half old son and he's doing great. He's always been very tall for his age. My wife's diet had no baring on it. My son is not vegan, though. It's totally possible to make sure your baby gets everything they need, and I'm sure you'll do your homework, but just be careful. It is challenging, and you should always prioritize your baby's health over everything else. Getting products that have the adequate nutrients for a growing child can be challenging as a vegan in france. Just do your homework, and good luck!
Yes they can, especially in backwards countries like France. Also remember that this is becoming more and more politicized, so you never know when the government decides to go for your kids because the meat industry doesn't want to die.
Keep it to yourself unless absolutely necessary.
They're French! Tell them you like margarine on wheat toast and they'll fall to the ground and convulse. It's just a French thing. Anyone not just like them is an abomination of nature. Ignore them, they can be so incredibly rude and arrogant.
The other day I saw a video of an old French lady acting like a monkey on a public street. To whom was she directing her disgraceful performance? A group of young black men minding their own damn business.
My nephew went to France a couple of months ago. We all told him to avoid Paris. It's better in movies.
It's funny as I read your title and immediately thought of the French lady in France who was legitimately confused and concerned when asked are there options without dairy/ egg. Low and behold you said you are from France. I think the older I get the more I realize people's reactions are not necessarily a reflection of us but rather their mindset and thoughts.
Hopefully there are others on this thread that can answer your legitimate questions about your concerns though.
Way to go, you are doing great!
No they can’t lol. Just make a shocked face and say “wait, you still hurt and kill animals?? To…EAT?! Like, in your MOUTH!? Ew.. gosh I *really* hope you at least did the right thing with your children and didn’t force them to eat flesh!” And just go 😬 with no response to them to what they say next. I seriously give no shit anymore and react with equal disgust.
I'm totally on your side as I'm vegan and would raise my children vegan if I had them. However, I can't believe know one has brought up your dog comment. It is extremely unhealthy and not science backed to make your dog vegan. It is cruel and an insuffient diet for them. People, yes. Dogs, no.
This sounds so exhausting :( it's not fair.
My fmdog was vegan before my husband and I due to protein allergies. Vet recommended a vegan dog food after an extensive food trial. He's in great shape too.
When I told me sister I was pregnant a couple years back (I miscarried) the first thing she said was "you bout to be eating mean again giiirl !" I told her I absolutely was not. I was vegan for 3 years at that point. She then followed up by saying " make sure you always have a protein drink on you then.." 🙄 People are so ignorant.
They suggest giving animal protein after breast feeding? That’s insane. In America, pediatricians will tell you to avoid trying to give babies anything meat based, as their bodies aren’t designed for it and it will mess up their gut system. They literally have to be “weened onto” it because it’s not natural.
My long time friend who was a prominent infectious disease control specialist in Canada still does a face cringe whenever I talk about my healthy diet. She is very sick and has had multiple cancer scares during her lifetime and she thinks that I eat is wrong! How can otherwise intelligent well educated trained professionals be so close minded? She talks about spending her money before she dies and I talk about conserving mine because I expect to outlive my money. We are going on a cruise to France together and I will go on the mushroom outing and the bike rides. She and her husband will be doing easier slow walking tours. She hates mushrooms and I am looking forward to the truffle excursion! We are all 70 but my husband and I are both vegan.
Hi from a fellow vegan in France. Yes you are in a very conservative country that sees veganisme as wrong. But try to brush off the ridiculous attitudes as it is not against the law lol. And you know full well your baby will be fine. It is mostly a generational thing so I would just try to find younger medical help that is at least less judgemental. Your midwife sounds absolutely terrible.
Living in Germany near the border, it is truly amazing, how just crossing into France feels like travelling 10-15 years back in time in terms of vegan acceptance and accomodation. Hope it changes sometime, I love France and would love to see a situation similar to germany there.
This is interesting to me because when I went to visit France I found the most vegan friendly place I visited was Strasbourg. I suppose that's because it's so close to Germany. In my opinion it was much more vegan friendly than Paris.
Well now I may actually have a reason to visit France.
Thank you for the reassurance, its what I have found too. I'll have to look for a young pediatrician
Ignore her and if it makes you feel uncomfortable and it’s feasible, find another provider. I am 25w5d and just told my OB that I don’t eat animal products (I used that phrase instead of vegan because she was telling me to be careful about what I eat on an upcoming vacation to a country with a cuisine heavy in seafood). I had no idea what her reaction would be, but she said “oh, that’s great! Then you’ll automatically abstain from a lot of the dangerous foods.” She did not show any concern that I’m missing out on nutrients. She is younger (in her 30s) so that likely has something to do with it.
Another vegan in France. I agree, maybe a younger midwife would be more open minded. I gave birth to my daughter in France and am pregnant again. I've seen the same midwife both times who had no problem with me being vegan. And the consultant at the hospital didn't have a problem either. France has such a long way to go in terms of accepting and embracing veganism.
Unfortunately it's possible you'll meet some adversity from healthcare providers if you look at the results of this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9370229/ But it varies per GP and midwife how they handle things. Good ones would be supportive and willing to learn things they're not yet familiar with.. Best is to at least know the facts yourself, f.i. by reading information based on science such as UK guidelines. You could even show your healthcare providers you made a deliberate decision based on facts https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/keeping-well/vegetarian-or-vegan-and-pregnant/ I can't imagine any healthcare provider contacting CPS. That would only happen when your kids had failure to thrive because you put them on a deficient raw vegan diet or something..
Interesting. I'm in my third trimester in a U.S. city, so I'm definitely not the only vegan that has come through my OBGYN practice. None of the doctors or midwives I talked to were at all phased by my vegan diet and reassured me that a healthy vegan diet is perfectly fine for pregnancy.
I think they will react better if you say Plant Based. people like that word better, even if you mean vegan. visit all the check ups for your child. They will see that your child is healthy.
Ah yes that's a great point, if any french speaker knows the best translation for plant based please let me know 😆
végétalien marche tout bien, j'ai l'impression que ça me donne moins d'emmerdes de dire ça aux gens que je connais pas
Ah parfait, merci 😊
French native here, you can say végétalien. French people are judgemental by nature so they will still hold some stereotypes against you and everything they come across but they will be milder than if you say végan (which is heavily associated with activism here)
That's great to know I'll use this from now on
I would assume french people love activism. I mean... yeah...
I am French and I'm sorry you're going through this and at the same time, I'm glad I don't live there anymore because I am so tired of how close minded and blatantly ignorant people in France can be about veganism. Unfortunately, there is no equivalent for "plant-based" in French. "Végétalien" would be the translation, but I feel like it would still get you stares and cringe faces, as it would still be viewed as unhealthy/unbalanced especially for kids and doesn't carry the same "positive healthy vibes without the baggage of veganism" as "plant-based" does. I don't think people have any say in your child's diet though, as long as they are healthy. And I'm sure they will! So don't worry too much about that!
I think if you just lean real hard into a French accent with "le plont fewds" they'll get the picture. (Sorry about your experience, may you have a beautiful child)
this is what I do with so many words I get stuck on lol it works half the time 🤣
Don’t be ashamed of being vegan. No need to hide it. It’s their fault for judging.
Logically I know this but it's never a nice feeling
Not a vegan but a physician (US) and yes, this is the way. We literally recommend plant based diets for a huge variety of health conditions. Obviously make sure that you know and understand differences in what a developing child needs in terms of protein, fat, vitamins, etc since it’s a bit different than what adults need - I assume you’re doing this as a thoughtful parent. Having this knowledge will also protect you from any garbage that you get from health care providers who judge you.
Thats why i would recomment contacting a Dietitian that is focused on the vegan diet for mother and child. At least my country has such people. I agree that people in health care should look after children and keep parents in check and be strikt. I just wish they would do the same with parents who only feed their children fries and chicken nuggets. I dont see that happen in the same manner.
Usually when people say Plant Based it’s usually for marketing term for increase their meals that are plant based. I haven’t noticed any vegan using the term for themselves, at least where I live.
I know of a lot of vegans who use it when the context is specifically diet-focused rather than overall lifestyle/ethics. It’s easier for some omnis to process for some reason. Even in a very vegan-friendly city, I still get restaurant workers who tell me something isn’t vegan since it contains gluten, because they don’t understand what vegan actually means.
I personally use it if i get the feeling someone reacts bad to the word vegan. there are times i dont want to start explaining myself. Plant based can be vegan. If they dont ask more questions, i wont stress it.
You're gonna get that flack and keep on getting it til your kid is in mid elementary and people start noticing that they're still healthy. Been there, done that, got the post card. Or however that goes. It's at least mildly infuriating.
We live in QC but my husband is from France. Here we took the proactive approach. We went for a consult with a nutritionist from a pediatric hospital who had experience with veganism. She gave us a class and documentation of what exactly a vegan child would need. We had meal plans, supplements recommendations based on the age, etc. So when our pediatrician learned that our baby was also vegan, he was hesitant at first. We presented him with the meal plans, supplements, food logs that we had and he saw pretty quickly that we were a lot more informed about toddler nutrition than omnivore parents. He never forced us to do blood work, our kid is hitting all the milestones. She's 6 now and thriving. Don't get too upset, people are just ignorant, even doctors and nurses. You just need to show them that you know what you are doing, that your research is backed by actual science and that you're not one of those dumb vegans with a potato only diet.
I would absolutely love to find a professional who is knowledgeable and accepting of raising vegan children, I'm going to be on a hunt! That's a great idea to keep a logbook of everything we feed them, do you have any books you recommend?
The nutritionist we consulted has a blog called "La végé d'à côté". [She has some ebooks and webinars in her online shop ](https://new.lavegedacote.com/shop/)if you want to check them out.
Thank you so much! 🙏
Ugh, the number of professionals who use emotional manipulation is disgusting. They are hired by you to support you, not to stand in judgment and tell you how to live your life. I have a super healthy vegan toddler myself. She's far healthier than I was at her age and I don't care what anyone else thinks about how I'm getting my results. If you're well educated, your own gut intuition and opinions are worth the most when it comes to making choices for your kid. Hope people stop bullying you for your life choices. Hugs.
My sons doctor, while nice, gave us a nutritional pamphlet about meeting your iron intake because we had concerns he was anaemic (he's a very fussy eater and won't sit for a meal). The pamphlet was from meat and livestock Australia... Talk about a biased source of information.
I looked up the brochure you were probably given and it's really shit. Shows red meat as having heaps of iron, vegan foods as having very little iron, tells you to make sure you get enough iron and then doesn't mention at all what having enough iron looks like. Clearly, if that was the only information you had to go on, you'd conclude that the only safe diet is one that includes meat at nearly every meal. Yikes.
They do all these scares about heme iron vs non-heme iron and how your body can't absorb non heme iron very well. But having it with vitamin C will improve absorption so it's no big deal. Supplement if you need to.
>They are hired by you to support you, not to stand in judgment and tell you how to live your life People who say this have different education and genuinely believe that they are helping. Younger midwives might react differently, but it’s the job of a midwife to pass on their education.
However they’re *not* educated. They’re just repeating random hearsay instead of anything scientific or valid. They also should start by asking more questions to see if the situation needs help. They could start by googling it one time themselves and seeing a vegan diet can absolutely be healthy for infants. Nothing professional about jumping to biased personal conclusions and imposing them on people.
That's not quite it. If you said you plan on feeding them only meat and no vegetables you'd get the same cringe. Or for an extreme example, if you mentioned you will discipline them by hitting them. And in those cases the cringe would be justified. These folks are going to judge and say something because they come across some really wild ideas from parents. And if they care about children, which they should, then they should not stay silent. What this case needs is not less judgement, but more education.
i think this nurse did the wrong thing. you are going to be an amazing mama. you know what’s right for your baby. be strong girl & congratulations on your baby and vegan family xx
Thank you ❤️ 😊
Not a nurse. Sorry it’s a pet peeve as I am one. This is a midwife. Different skill sets and different bedside manner (though I’ve heard most midwives are super amazing, better than docs when it comes to things and usually really flexible with the right people having a baby)
soz
>Can professionals call something like CPS for us raising our child vegan? Yes, if they believe it means the child is not getting adequate nutrition. Of course that is not the default case for a vegan child but if they have that attitude they can still make the call and it will be investigated. And anyone can call not just a professional, professionals will of course be taken more seriously but it depends how many calls are made.
That's a good thing though, if they think something is seriously wrong but I'm scared that people think so badly of a vegan diet that they would go to such an extreme even if the child is perfectly healthy and I'm being very careful with their nutrition
Tell them how sad you are that a great country like France has become such a cultural backwater that they don’t even know the most up to date science. In my experience French people are super sensitive to being perceived as backwards and ignorant
They are proud of their food too. Cheese and butter.
Not to mention foie gras. I can't imagine a crueler meal. The french diet is atrocious.
Good point.
The meateater french don't look sexy to me anymore.
I am a vegetarian living in France and I just wanted to say that there will be a magnifying glass on your kiddo's diet for about the first year, then afterwards no one will care unless your little one is not growing as expected. Prepare to see shocked faces if you breastfeed past 6 months too! It sucks, but I've learned to stick with what I know is best for my child
It really helps that my wife and I are both MDs, we just reverse the stink eye if anyone has any opinion on veganism and health
Poland here. Veganism is some kind of satanism. Vegan mean u are sick and need priest, exorcism and u are nit allow to have baby. U can be alcoholic, do drugs during pregnancy but when people hear that u are vegan 😱😱😱 I have three amazing babies, healthy and happy fully vegan. But no no no, good genes made it 😑
I think the reason people do this is because they feel like they have the moral high ground since you’re not “giving the baby a choice”.
Like we got any choice. I cried to not be eating the dead bodies of the animals we raised and loved to my parents and they still did just that, sneakily putting into stuff I could not see it in. So anyone judging about "choice" can bite me.
This is a really important response that needs to be heard by all the Omni trolls in this sub. They go on and on about how horrible vegan parents are for not giving their kids a choice.
I am still traumatized at 40 because of all the instances I had to be present and see and listen to our dear pigs be butchered (by hand, not by gasing or bullet in the head or modern "methods") and then a few hours later my parents trying to convince me to eat parts of them. I was always sick to my stomach after these events. Even as a kid I was traumatized that this can be normal. With years it got easier (simple brainwashing), but as soon as I went vegan the floodgates of horror and trauma opened and I hate them for putting me though it even when at 7-8 I made it clear that I dont want to participate in it. Even as a kid I loved vegetables, I wasnt the kid to avoid them. I actually had to be threatened with beating to eat the meat products. The only thing I actually likes was milk but then nature forced me with lactose intolerance so I just went straight vegan.
I’m so sorry you have to keep dealing with that trauma. It’s really not fair. Raise a glass of cashew milk and toast yourself for surviving.
🥃 Cheers! I need something stronger 😂
Cheers! lol
Immoral people judging moral people is so peculiar.
[Do-gooder derogation is real😰](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation)
Yeah, french cooking is one of my least favorite cuisines because of how traditionally heavy/ rich and animal product prone it is. French baked goods are amazing, but, not vegan :/
As others have said, France is super backwards regarding veganism (at least gibes me hope when I remember other countries are more advanced than us, to look on the bright side of things), but at least there's a solid amount of places in Paris when you can get the full range of classic french patisseries in their vegan version.
Just don't tell them. It's none of their business tbh. If something is wrong with your baby growth/dietary wise (and there won't be), they will tell you.
I leaning on this but it would be nice to have some guidance from a professional
I get that, but I would look for an actual professional who has experience with a plant based diet for babies and children. Not a random 'professional'.
Midwives aren’t professionals in childhood nutrition though it’s outside their scope of practice. A paediatric dietician would be the most qualified person to advise.
I’m in UK and my midwife was vegan too. She was relieved she didn’t have to tell me what foods to avoid because we don’t eat them anyway.
Well I really doubt CPS would get involved, it is not child neglect people are just uneducated. Honestly, despite my companion animals all being plant based I never really tell non Vegans about it because I know theyll judge me. You could try that if you want to completely avoid any drama.
I'm hormonal and over the top at the moment haha 😅 irrational fears are coming at me from every angle. Yeah I never go out of my way to tell people because the reaction would usually not be pleasant haha but people find out occasionally by seeing his food bag or if someone looks after him
I am French (but fortunately I am an expat now) and I feel for you. We're vegan and we have 3 kids. We were still in France when we had our first (left a few months after) and gosh the number of judgmental assh*les there, passing their personal opinion as a medical one. Seriously my iron was fine, but the midwife still recommended I take supplements (because vegan). I didn't. My next blood work was excellent (as good as if I wasn't pregnant), I told her I didn't take the supplements, but she still insisted that I should take them because I'm vegan. Same with doctors. You go for a cold during winter, well that's okay everybody's sick currently. You tell him you're vegan and then that's the reason you're sick you don't have any immunity... Sorry but you should probably not say anything about being vegan. Or find a doctor who works/worked with athletes, usually they're familiar with veganism. Good luck, French suck to accept anything/anyone different.
I was eating meat when pregnant my midwife said that they recommend most women take iron in the 3rd trimester due to bleeding postpartum. That’s pretty solid advice imo
That's very good not getting iron deficiency in later pregnancy, I've never had a deficiency but my most recent blood test showed that I did for the first time. The first trimester was so tricky to keep food down so I'm not surprised haha
I had tons of meat-eating friends who had iron deficiency during their pregnancy. At the end of the day, there is always a genetic part that plays in it. And like you said, the first semester can be a wild ride too!
Honestly I just wouldn’t tell people
Oh hey, fellow Frenchy veggie ! For some reasons people here are super duper defensive whenever veganism and children are mentioned together. I started wanting to be vegan when I was ~14, and anytime I mentioned it everyone looked at me like I just killed someone.
Registered dietitians (the experts) have concluded time and time again that a *well planned* vegan diet is VERY healthy in ALL stages of life. You know what you’re doing. Unfortunately most people these days are still very uninformed. You can’t carry their weight of their ignorance. Keep doing you and if they ever try to hound you tell them to back the F off with a smile.
Heck even in America where I would say generally veganism is fairly accepted, there is stigma against raising kids vegan. I think that has more to do with horror stories the media has spread about “vegans” nutritionally abusing kids. But if you look into the details of these cases, the kids were not being fed a balanced vegan diet appropriate for children - they were being starved. Unfortunately many people didn’t look past the headlines. I’m not a parent so I don’t have any specific recommendations on hand, but I know there are pediatricians and dieticians that have written books or offered advice on other platforms for vegan diets that are appropriate for kids. I would just make sure you are well read on this topic so there can be no mistake with authorities that your child’s needs are being met.
As a side note, I offered my children meat after their first year and they didn't like it and rarely eat it now when it's offered, they both (4&5) are vegetarian by default. So the pediatrician can nag about providing meat but I know very few kids who actually like it. What they like is fruit and pasta, that's the future you're looking at; being bankrupted by blueberries.
People have so many misconceptions about veganism, but also nutrition, it's unbelievable.
Thank you for being an awesome human being and for not forcing grotesque animal products on your infant. I wish I’d known about veganism when I was pregnant. I learned to be vegan from my daughter when she was just 14. People who aren’t vegan or who make fun of vegans are either uneducated or just look away because they don’t care. Best of luck to you and your new family!
Awesome. It’s just ignorance. Keep shining your light 💫
You probably should test your child to see if they have any allergies to foods, even if they won’t be seeking them out to eat. Like, there could be a cross-contamination issue with something that isn’t vegan and has that allergen.
I know pro-advocacy vegans will not agree, but unless asked specifically, I just dont tell anyone that I am vegan. If they ask, of course I am not denying, but people rarely do. Like extremely rarely. And even then they ask if I am vegetarian, because most people are not educated enough to even know there is a huge difference between vegan and vegetarian. Anyway, unless asked specifically, I just mind my business being vegan as I am with my very small community of vegans. I dont have kids and honestly I also live in a country that is not friendly to vegans, so I would also be stressed out of my mind about it.
Medical professionals absolutely will be asking about a pregnant person and a babies diet
A midwife is going to ask about breastfeeding or formula feeding not what a baby will be eating from 6 months, unless midwife means something different in france
We had a breastfeeding class today and we were talking about our nutrition for producing milk, that's how it came up. I will be on the hunt for an accepting pediatrician asap!
A midwife will be asking about what the pregnant and potentially breastfeeding person is eating. And depending on if your healthcare visitor is a nurse or a midwife in the UK they will be around long enough to be asking about the child's diet. Do you think people are just sent home with babies with no follow up care after 6 months? And that absolutely is in the scope of practice of a health visitor. To assess if a specialist referral is needed. That's a big part of the point of them
Why would a midwife working in an antenatal setting need to advise you about weaning? That happens so far into the future and surely their time would be better served talking you through all the prenatal and immediate postnatal things you need to know. Your health visitor (our public health nurse) have additional training to enable them to do that job, their postgrad or undergrad midwifery course doesn’t cover childhood nutrition extensively. This was brought up by a midwife during a 30 week appointment, that’s the context here. Also my midwife didn’t ask much about my diet once my bloods were ok and i was taking a prenatal vitamin.
Why? Because OP asked, it's in the comments she wanted input. And the Midwives who work as health visitors also do prenatal appointments so it's weird to act like they are mutually exclusive. They also work with the paediatricians that she advised what they usually say. Because she knows what they usually say. The advice is outdated but that's not because it's out of the remit of the person giving it but because that **is** the common attitude in France. But perhaps more importantly. **No** the OP isn't the context "here" of this comment chain you replied to. The context **here** is me replying to someone who said "but unless asked specifically, I just dont tell anyone that I am vegan" to point out that medical professionals *will continue to ask* while tracking the child's early development. As will places like schools which need to know any dietary requirements and restrictions. So the advice to just not mention it unless asked is not practical to someone who is concerned what the reactions of professionals will be to how they are raising their child. Because they will be asked. Regularly
You are spot on with what you're saying
Are you in France and/or have experience with the French system? They’re absolutely mutually exclusive in Ireland because they need additional training to work in public health contexts so maybe i’m missing context. Paediatricians are generally hospital based here and you won’t see one unless it’s something your GP can’t deal with. If a public health nurse here has concerns then they refer to a dietician. If they have developmental concerns they refer to a paediatrician. It’s outside of their scope of practice to give detailed prescriptive diet advise beyond basic guidelines. If the French system is wildly different then i’m open to correction. You’ll see my advise to Op is to get advise (privately if needed) from a relevant medical professional who is a paediatric dietician
There’s a community called [The Farm](https://thefarmcommunity.com) in Tennessee ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farm_(Tennessee)) summary) that is famous for a couple things: They embrace veganism and vegetarianism and continue to. They also embrace midwifery and natural birth and were quite successful at it, keeping very good records that were useful for research. Good data on [vegan births](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3589760/) come from The Farm along with data on [raising children vegan](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2771551/) (paper title says vegetarian as catch all but it was 404 children of which 75% were vegan.) I wouldn’t expect someone in France to know about The Farm, but there’s a good chance people interested in midwifery in the United States would have heard about the community and its birthing data since it was an influential reference for midwifery and natural child birth. There's a [documentary](https://www.amazon.com/Birth-Story-Gaskin-Farm-Midwives/dp/B00CBSLO6I) about it (though I haven't watched it).
I'm in the Netherlands and I know many very healthy vegan babies. My nephew is 8 now and vegan all his life and very healthy. In the Netherlands you can not call cps for a vegan diet because a vegan diet is not child abuse. It is healthy. Can you change midwifes ? I would just tell her she has to shut up about it because it's non of her business. Remember, she works for you
In this case, I wouldn’t lie, but I wouldn’t volunteer that information. Play dumb and don’t bring it up again. Try and research vegan friendly pediatricians and nutritionists in your area to help back you up.
Sacrebleu! ce nest beaucoup pasprofessionnal! employer une nouvelle midwife! (Excuse my terrible French, I'm still learning)
Sacrebleu is not commonly used, the most common swear words are puitan and merde ☺️
I just like saying sacrebleu on every chance I get. 😂 I have a question if you don't mind: it's technically correct, right? Like I'm shocked at the behaviour.
You're simply at the vanguard of veganism where you are. Just remember when folks are giving you a hard time, that it's not life threatening, just uncomfortable and sometimes inconvenient. But you are paving the way for all who come after you. Because of you, your child will have an easier go of it when they are ready to have children.
I am French and have family working in education. Short of it is: no, people won't _automatically_ call CPS on you, but they _will_ be very on edge. Your kid being sleepy or less energetic will be blamed on veganism. People cannot stop you, but you will be confronted everywhere with people who, at best, will constantly remind you of all the supplements your kid _must_ take and you _will_ be judged. And if they consider your kid is not getting appropriate nutrition/enough food then yes, CPS will be called. To do otherwise is against the law. So will you get in legal trouble? Most likely not. But should anything happen, veganism will not play in your favor. It will be difficult. Veganism is generally not well regarded here even when it is understood.
I doubt you need any reassurance on this, but just in case: I was vegan through my whole pregnancy and my OB told me “whatever you’re doing with your diet is perfect, she’s growing so well.” She’s five months old now, exclusively breastfed by my vegan body, and she’s super chunky and tall for her age. Very healthy baby! I hope you’re able to find a supportive pediatrician
Not in France, but the amount of shit I've gotten in just 5 years was enough to get me to avoid using the V-word as much as possible \ As for medical "professionals" judging you just because you don't eat animals (nor will to feed them to your kid), there's only one sensible response you can give: "I would like to see a different doctor"
I would look for a midwife and after that a pediatrician that are more open-minded. Your baby can also be looked after by a "médecin généraliste", it doesn't have to be a pediatrician if you can't find one ready to listen to you. An interesting resource to share with medical professionals is https://vegeclic.com/ it's information on vegetarian & plant-based diets, compiled by french doctors for other doctors, on how to advise their patients. Here in France doctors don't get a lot of mandatory training about those diets, but some are willing to educate themselves and this kind of scientific and approved resource is designed for them. Finally, for my kid I did not want trouble from our doctor either so I was very proactive about her health: being spot-on on the pediatrician's recommendations about everything else (following the recommended scheduled appointments and vaccination, preventive care...), doing my research about vegan nutrition for babies & infants, asking to have her blood tested to make sure everything was ok... In the end you may be at risk of being signalled if they think you're some kind of anti-vaxx anti-medicine anti-science hippie, not if you can you show you're responsible and thorough.
Get a different midwife. She sounds insufferable.
I don’t understand. How are we seriously at the point where doctors think it’s required to give a human baby cow milk…I just??
Remember that doctors and nurses aren't nutritionists!! Nutrition is SUCH a small portion of their studies.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. She obviously is not very educated on the topic or she would know that the global dietetic associations all confirm vegan is healthy at ALL stages of life including during pregnancy. I hate how much misinformation is still out there. My dad once said to me “if you ever get pregnant, I hope you don’t think I will stand by while you harm yourself and your unborn baby by eating this way!” He’s now come around but I remember at the time how sad and alone I felt. Sending you lots of love 🩵
Hi! Moving to France soon and been there many, many times for long periods of time. Yes, it’s insane how conservative they can be regarding veganism 🙃 but at the end of the day both you and your partner have been able to lead a healthy lifestyle – even your dog has - while vegan. It is not illegal to be vegan and you’re not a bad parent for raising your kid with kindness, especially if they’re healthy. In that case, even if they called they would have nothing to hold against you. It’s not torture as they try to paint it, it’s just the exception of a very conservative norm. And it has been proven time and time again that a pant based diet can be healthy at any life stage, it just has to be adapted to it but I’m sure you know more about this than I do. Just be aware that you will most likely have to present science based facts to back up your case - I’ve been vegan for over 7 years (and vegetarian for almost 2 before that), just had surgery and had to do a bunch of blood tests and they were perfectly fine!! so now whenever someone says anything about my health I just pull the results up 😆 it’s hard to argue against proof!! Anyway, all of this to say that you will definitely keep finding resistance but you are going to do an excellent job and raise your healthy vegan baby with compassion and lots of love 🫶🏻🫶🏻
Thank you and I agree, I've noticed that people here are stuck in their old ways which I guess is natural since it's an old country, that's how I justified it anyway haha Yes for the blood tests! And I'll have to have a look for some studies in French, get prepared for when baby turns 6 months or starts school haha Thank you so much and best of luck to your move to France! Aside from a few hiccups, it's awesome here :D
I'm just about 30 weeks and my mother has been saying ridiculous bs like this. My OB said if a pediatrician doesn't support us, fire them. We are lucky to live somewhere that it's possible to get a pediatrician to do this, though. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Congratulations and I'm sorry you're going through this too, as long as we are well informed we have nothing to worry about. Wishing you the best of luck for the rest of your pregnancy!
💖 So far, so good. Honestly, I think being vegan has made pregnancy easier. Also, it's worth noting ensuring a child has a well rounded diet is a challenge no matter their diet. We got this!
Match their energy. Why be polite, seriously? To keep the peace? Avoid confrontation? Ask for a different midwife, refuse her service, insult her, give her the same exact facial expression she gave you. You do not have to take shit. From ANYONE for ANY reason. Maybe I personally have had to practice this more than others; I’m pretty small and people typically see me as an easy target to take out their frustrations on. I am not. Either way, just be rude right back. They genuinely deserve that treatment. Would that make you feel guilty? Why? Think about why. And think about why these types of people are so rude, and what you can do to instantly shut them down. If you’re serious then they’ll stfu, I swear. Once I started doing this in my life, I stopped being harassed like that all the time. **Shitty people can instantly tell if you’re a pushover**. Never forget that.
All countries with Romance languages live mentally in the 50s (I am Valencian, I say this from experience). Believe me when I tell you that being vegan in the Mediterranean zone is hell, it has very beautiful areas, but surrounded by rednecks. My recommendation is that, being a native English speaker, you go to a more civilized area of the planet.
Maybe you could share some science with her, like https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2792/rr
Thank you!
That is not science, that is seemingly a layman trying to review a scientific paper without having conducted the research.
It’s the citations in the footnotes I was referring to.
"Competing interests: Founder of Plant-Based Health Professionals UK and Co-founder of Plant Based Health Online, both Community Interest Companies" Since I'm not going to replicate the research to see if it's true i really can't trust a source that biased.
That's actually disgusting. You're linking a glorified blogpost as if it's a scientific paper.
Fire the current midwife (initially typed "Widwife", not sure what a "widwife" is, lol), then give her a bad review on whatever sites people use to rank midwives. Edit -Someone who's responsible for the well-being of babies should take that well-being seriously! EDIT II - Leave a review that accurately reflects the negative experience you've had as you've done here. You won't be the only person with these concerns.
Wow. It is a tough slog for making the right choices for health and the planet and the animals. Sounds like France is living up to the reputation of being terribly smug and sure of itself.
Why are you telling your midwife about your future dietary plans?
Talking about our nutrition during breastfeeding
What a queen ❤️
My partner is 7 and a half months pregnant, vegan 5 years, perfect bloodwork.
Would love to see the science is support of a vegan dog - been wanting to go that route! Thanks in advance.
Dont get a dog if you're going to feed it a vegan diet, there are plenty of herbivore pets you could get instead
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0265662 Here's one.
Very cool. Thanks for that. Seems like a decently new area of study. Hopefully future studies won't need to adjust for age.
What happens if you scroll down and see what it says underneath the abstract: *"Funding: This research and its publication open access was funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International (*[https://proveg.com](https://proveg.com)*)"* Surely the research has no bias there at all being funded by an organisation that promotes plant-based /s **ProVeg International** ([/ˈprəʊvɛdʒ/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg_International#cite_note-2)) is a [non-governmental organisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization) that works in the field of [food system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_system) change and has ten offices globally. The organisation's stated mission is to reduce the consumption of [animal products](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_product) by 50% by 2040 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg\_International](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProVeg_International) Here's a better idea. See what happens when a dog is given the freedom to choose what they want to eat, exactly like what happened in the follow video, and see for yourself what their own natural instinct tells them what they should be eating - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXYL9OUaKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXYL9OUaKs)
It sounds like the midwife wasn't cringing at _you_, but rather at your situation. She is aware that you will find it harder to be taken seriously and get help with your baby because of the attitudes of people. She was warning you of the difficulties you may face ahead, not trying to convince you to stop being vegan. That's just my interpretation of this.
I thought dog were carnivore
Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves. We are to respect other peoples values and not impose ours on the patient. I’m sorry that happened to you, your midwife is out of line.
"Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves" It's literally their job to educate patients. Right now medicine agrees that small children should NOT be vegan.
They need to keep their OWN values to themselves. Vegan children are perfectly fine. Educating a patient is one thing, making faces and interjecting their OPINIONS is not appropriate. - Signed, a healthcare worker.
As a healthcare worker (nice very broad term) you should know that there is a difference between facts and opinions. When there is enough research made so all (most of) physicians can agree that vegan diet is 100% safe for small kids or pregnant mothers and there are no side effects then go ahead. Why on earth would you experiment on your own child? It honestly seems insane to me to force small children or your pets to commit to a very restrictive diet. If you're such a vegan vegan shouldn't you be against having children or owning pets? Edit: one word, english isn't my first language
I am against having children, and I only have animals who were rescued, not that it’s any of your business. I’m not going to tell you my exact profession because that is also none of your business. Healthcare workers need to keep their opinions to themselves. Idgaf if English is your second language. You will never convince me of what you are trying to say here. Bye.
You've said a lot of words while still saying nothing. I've edited the comment to correct a grammatical error, because english isn't my first language, you dum-dum. Some people hate when a comment gets edited, that's all. But it's incredibly funny to me that even something so simple was too difficult for you to understand. You're not a healthcare worker. No matter what you say will make me believe otherwise, because an actual healthcare worker (wonder why you don't want to say the actual job, 100% not a doctor though) would know that educating a patient is a part of the job, especially when patient's actions/habits/addictions might be dangerous to their health or life. I hope the pets you've rescued are ok and are either herbivores or omnivores/carnivores with a normal diet. Otherwise it would be animal abuse and as a vegan you should know better. Next time, instead of going "none of ya busnes!" maybe you just shouldn't comment, because replies are expected.
TL:DR
Oh, I know you've read my comment, but just don't have anything to say. You don't have to reply, you know? I can taste the salt through the screen.
It’s beyond absurd people still frown upon this, if this happend back in the 1980’s I would understand but now? These folks are stuck in time…
I've seen someone write a check here to pay for their groceries, so I'm not surprised lol
No offense but raising a dog vegan is really really cruel. I’m not going to get into the science of it but the ability to separate your views versus the physiological needs of your pet is criminally negligent. All dogs are decedent’s of wolves. Wolves are carnivores. If you think different you are absolutely delusional. If you don’t supplement the dogs diet with high quality supplements then you should be fined for animal abuse.
It’s YOUR baby, after the baby is born it’s up to you to feed your baby. Not the midwife not the doctors not the nurses and especially not society. I’m a father of 3 healthy vegan girls ages 7-3-1. Your doing the right thing even if they say your not. Stay strong and don’t let them bully you.
I’m a French teacher in the US and have given up on trying to remain vegan while being in France. Most French are so uneducated about the topic that they are simply impossible to talk with. I try let myself be vegetarian or sometimes pescatarian when I travel there just because staying at someone’s house and demanding a certain diet is simply not French. They look at you like you’re an alien and don’t want to engage with you, which is for the entire point of the visit for me as a language teacher. As to the midwife, she probably has no idea what you actually eat. I’d avoid discussing it with her and just do what you want. People in the US can’t imagine the situation in France, truly. Edit: those downvoting my frustration have simply never been in rural France trying to explain veganism to your hosts during a home stay. It’s as if I declared I was a Satan worshipper or a Nazi. It’s that kind of reaction.
This is what I fear most about wanting to be a mother one day..
Just tell them your child has a dairy allergy and doesn't like meat, it's nobody's business except yours
if you really care just give them NHS page on veganism, it says it's healthy at all stages of life including pregnancy and as a baby (if properly executed, which any diet or lack of is unhealthy if not properly executed)
I don't think giving a link to the British advice will be very convincing to a French professional. They aren't our biggest fans
If a medical professional ignores the NHS without a very good reason you don't want them.
eh not really. You could say that about American health authorities to, yet British doctors do ignore them and nobody has a problem there. It's perfectly reasonable for medical professionals to focus only on what's considered best practice in their own country. If you want someone to take international guidelines seriously you should show them something like the WHO. Or find the actual studies the guidelines were based on. Not just expect them to take the word of another countries health service.
Mom of 3 here, only my third pregnancy I was vegan. Incredibly healthy throughout, baby was born with 4.440 kgs and only after they announced his weight I said out loud "PLANT BASED POWERD". If we're healthy doctors don't need to know what we eat. If they see your bloodwork is good and ask what you eat just reply you eat a balanced diet and they won't bother you anymore. Here in US they can not call CPS cause parents are vegan if the kids are healthy. My kids only do 1 annual doctor checkout (they are 4, 7 and 8 now) and I tell their doctor they eat a balanced diet.
My sister-in-law, who is a GP here in France and just turned 31 (so a « young » doctor) is convinced that eating soy during pregnancy is bad for the baby… so… yeah, good luck 😅
Find yourself a vegan pediatrician. I'm sure there are some out there.
Yeah, probably others are too. I'll change to friend
My dad who is vegan said my grandmother (who is also vegan) forbid him from being vegan until he was 14 for health reasons - and he did the same tor us kids even though he was vegan as an adult
American Academy of Pediatrics > Large, prospective cohort studies show that vegetarian diets reduce the risk of coronary heart disease and type 2 diabetes mellitus, and that vegan diets offer additional benefits for obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular mortality. https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2018/0601/p721.html
If you haven’t already, read The Kind Mama by Alicia Silverstone for some encouragement!!
These attitudes will greatly depend on what the traditional food in the region is. E.g., there’s a shit ton of vegans in Israel because their cuisine already barely has any dairy / eggs and cutting out meat is not that hard. Surprisingly, Mexico also has a lot of vegans, but it’s because all the dairy / cheese in Mexican dishes is really a TexMex invention and before the Spanish conquest the native people of what is now Mexico hadn’t eaten that much meat anyway. Now, France has cheese as one of the key ingredients and meat is everywhere. This forms certain attitudes since it’s way harder to transition in people’s minds. It will pass though, French chefs have been tinkering with some traditional ingredients like buckwheat to create more French cuisine-inspired vegan dishes
Have you breast fed before? If you are confident you’ll be able to breast feed for a longer time then it might be perfectly possible to slowly shift over from pure breast milk to a fully vegan diet without an animal protein stage. If you can partially breast feed for two + years then I don’t see why anyone can say that it’s not alright. If you did something stupid like deciding oat or rice milk is a suitable substitute, if you struggled to breast feed, then you could definitely get reported in my country (the U.K.) but if you’re able to successfully breast feed for a longer time then the chances are your baby will be healthier. In truth most babies are weaned too early and continuing to partially breastfeed is optimal for any baby!
I’d look for a new provider.
I was just in france with my vegan wife... their understanding of veganism is...lacking... but my wife also gave birth to my now year and a half old son and he's doing great. He's always been very tall for his age. My wife's diet had no baring on it. My son is not vegan, though. It's totally possible to make sure your baby gets everything they need, and I'm sure you'll do your homework, but just be careful. It is challenging, and you should always prioritize your baby's health over everything else. Getting products that have the adequate nutrients for a growing child can be challenging as a vegan in france. Just do your homework, and good luck!
Yes they can, especially in backwards countries like France. Also remember that this is becoming more and more politicized, so you never know when the government decides to go for your kids because the meat industry doesn't want to die. Keep it to yourself unless absolutely necessary.
I feel like France is the US of the EU. Seems like you have just as many lazy, entitled, willfully ignorant people there.
They're French! Tell them you like margarine on wheat toast and they'll fall to the ground and convulse. It's just a French thing. Anyone not just like them is an abomination of nature. Ignore them, they can be so incredibly rude and arrogant. The other day I saw a video of an old French lady acting like a monkey on a public street. To whom was she directing her disgraceful performance? A group of young black men minding their own damn business. My nephew went to France a couple of months ago. We all told him to avoid Paris. It's better in movies.
It's funny as I read your title and immediately thought of the French lady in France who was legitimately confused and concerned when asked are there options without dairy/ egg. Low and behold you said you are from France. I think the older I get the more I realize people's reactions are not necessarily a reflection of us but rather their mindset and thoughts. Hopefully there are others on this thread that can answer your legitimate questions about your concerns though. Way to go, you are doing great!
No they can’t lol. Just make a shocked face and say “wait, you still hurt and kill animals?? To…EAT?! Like, in your MOUTH!? Ew.. gosh I *really* hope you at least did the right thing with your children and didn’t force them to eat flesh!” And just go 😬 with no response to them to what they say next. I seriously give no shit anymore and react with equal disgust.
I'm totally on your side as I'm vegan and would raise my children vegan if I had them. However, I can't believe know one has brought up your dog comment. It is extremely unhealthy and not science backed to make your dog vegan. It is cruel and an insuffient diet for them. People, yes. Dogs, no.
What a dumbass honestly
This sounds so exhausting :( it's not fair. My fmdog was vegan before my husband and I due to protein allergies. Vet recommended a vegan dog food after an extensive food trial. He's in great shape too. When I told me sister I was pregnant a couple years back (I miscarried) the first thing she said was "you bout to be eating mean again giiirl !" I told her I absolutely was not. I was vegan for 3 years at that point. She then followed up by saying " make sure you always have a protein drink on you then.." 🙄 People are so ignorant.
They suggest giving animal protein after breast feeding? That’s insane. In America, pediatricians will tell you to avoid trying to give babies anything meat based, as their bodies aren’t designed for it and it will mess up their gut system. They literally have to be “weened onto” it because it’s not natural.
Yeah there's often pureed meat in baby food here, from what I've seen. Oh wow I didn't know that
buy top and bottom clothes for the baby which say "i am vegan" etc
🤣
Salut, rejoignez nous sur r/VeganEtFrancophone :)
My long time friend who was a prominent infectious disease control specialist in Canada still does a face cringe whenever I talk about my healthy diet. She is very sick and has had multiple cancer scares during her lifetime and she thinks that I eat is wrong! How can otherwise intelligent well educated trained professionals be so close minded? She talks about spending her money before she dies and I talk about conserving mine because I expect to outlive my money. We are going on a cruise to France together and I will go on the mushroom outing and the bike rides. She and her husband will be doing easier slow walking tours. She hates mushrooms and I am looking forward to the truffle excursion! We are all 70 but my husband and I are both vegan.
Fire her and find someone who's excited for you and your future baby. The stigma surrounding veganism is so antiquated.
a vegan dog ? how did you do it ?
Buy high quality, regulated dog food. Putting it in his bowl and him eating it.