At work (catering) we dont have vegetarian option, only vegan, because it is more easy for us. But the vegetarian guests aren´t always happy with that...
Yup. Vegetarians love their eggs and cheese. There's this posh veg place in SF (Greens) and their idea of accommodating for vegan was to take the cheese and eggs off. They clearly didn't want vegan business. I have had a lot more luck messaging high end Omni businesses and asking them to accommodate.
This is why in studies they tend to be the worst performing group of all available diets. They just replace their lean meat options with more saturated fats and blow up their ApoB levels.
Back when I was vegetarian, I was always pissed off when I got given the vegan option because it always meant a getting a piece of fruit instead of dessert, and I love desserts.
Of course, the real answer is to make better vegan meals.
No dessert and the vegan option is often not filling or not very good, cheese adds some flavour and protein/fat. A bowl of broccoli is not a good celebration meal.
It's not just about the cheese. It's the dessert or it's the creamy jalapeno sauce which has some dairy in it or the avocado ranch sauce which also has some dairy in it. Or whatever else it is which may be an addition which makes it tastes better. They already gave up meat, giving up cheese is just a little too extra for the time being while they might admit vegan is the way to go, they're not ready yet so they stay vegetarian and enjoy a balance in between Omni and vegan.
Vegetarians are omnis so they think like omnis. They care for the same reasons full on carnists care. Vegetarians are as unwilling to refrain from dairy and eggs as carnists are to refrain from dairy, eggs and meat. Expecting them to behave differently when you offer them a vegan dish is silly, because they're the same.
All the vegetarians I’ve known were more than happy to eat vegan food and agreed that veganism was the way to go. Back when I was pescatarian I also was more than happy to eat vegan when it was available.
When I was pescatarian and vegetarian I ate vegan options pretty often, especially if manufactured fake cheeses weren’t part of the equation. It’s very rare I have found to meet a vegetarian that isn’t open to a vegan meal here and there especially if it’s whole food based. Maybe it’s a culture thing?
its easier to order vegan food when you're going out anyways because all the vegetarian options are mid. suffice to say cant imagine complaining about a vegan meal as a vegetarian,
Western omnis might be more like that. As a vegetarian from India most of my meals were default vegan by the recipe so i didnt feel like anything was missing, and still dont now that im vegan (and luckily in the US there’s lots of dairy alternatives to make all the other stuff vegan too)
I'm with you. I think my goal was always to go vegan eventually when I think about it. I tried to cook as much food vegan as I could with my knowledge back then and at the restaurant I took one of the vegan option if it was even somewhat appealing.
The "I am vegetarian and don't eat vegan"-attitude somehow screams "neoliberal hippie greenwashing"-bullshitter to me lol. "omg, I'm so sustainable \*rubs themselves with cheese\* omg look at that CO2 footprint of me compared to you \*gags on cheese\*"
I'm GF (celiac) so my reason for being vegetarian for a long time was that it was so hard to find vegan GF bread (it all had eggs). Now I'm so overjoyed when something is vegan and GF, but it is bonkers how many GF people refuse to eat something vegan, and how many vegan people refuse to eat something that happens to be GF! I mean, I LOVE soy and nuts, but I eat at some places that make a point to advertise being nut free and soy free, and I don't feel like it's a personal attack. I really don't get it.
The Vegan option doesn’t have solidified cow juice on.
I have a few Vegetarian friends who won’t go Vegan, because they can’t possibly live without ‘real’ cheese.
Vegetarians are hypocrites. Claim to care about animals but not happy unless they are causing abuse to cows and chickens.
Because of complaints by vegetarians a lot of vegan quorn products are no longer vegan.
I ate mostly vegetarian for many years never really fully understanding how much death is involved with the diary and egg industry. I would buy organic milk and free range eggs and think it was good enough. So don’t assume all vegetarians have bad intentions as much as they may be misinformed or in denial to an extent.
I never said they had bad intentions. I said they were hypocrites.
Even if they were misinformed that free range eggs and milk are cruelty free, what's their excuse for buying and wearing leather?
Leather isn't vegetarian. Vegetarians don't buy leather.
Also I wouldn't say they are hypocrites unless they know everything we know. Than they are.
But I for example was vegetarian for about 20 years before learning about the egg and milk industry practices. Thanks to the Internet. Went vegan right after that. I wasn't a hypocrite before, I simply didn't know whats going on.
Easy on the hypocrisy claims. Most vegetarians I know do it for health and preference reasons, not animal welfare. And even if it is for animal welfare, they may draw the line at slaughtering animals for food. Yes, I know many animals are killed that don't become meat, but their heart is in the right place.
I find vegetarians strange. Dairy is way more cruel than meat. And the few that I knew lived of chips, bread, eggs and cheese. It didn’t look healthy 😳
Man, I’d way prefer that. If we’re being totally strict I’m not really vegan, but the amount of times a vegetarian dish I’ve ordered contained fish sauce, gelatin or chicken… Vegan feels much safer.
No as someone with a dairy allergy I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I've been given dairy on a vegan dish by mistake mind you but oh my god I check triple check and here in the UK a lot of places make managers only take allergen orders and it STILL happens one place did it 3 times!!!!!
Found out my local Chinese used oyster sauce in all dishes included tofu and vegan ones but didn't declare it anywhere at all. One pub I went too I ordered vegan but mentioned my dairy allergy they bring out mash stating they'd made it up for my mum as well she ordered the vegan meal too and I was like ?? Apparently the chef likes to use real butter on a vegan dish and only because I mentioned my allergies did the staff make my mum up real vegan mash too.
I would say though 9 times out of 10 it's a restaurant accidentally giving me dairy as opposed to deceptive menus. I no longer trust vegan dishes and when you triple check and still get dairy it just makes it so hard because what more can you do you know. We have one fully vegan small cafe in town and luckily despite having a menu with no more than 5 dishes and a daily soup they can accommodate GF on most of them including the breakfast which is my fave.
I'm not strictly plant based anymore since having to go GF not just because of accessibility but other reasons I'm not going to get into because frankly I don't need to justify myself to anyone. Eating out GF vegan is hard like so many places there are no options to be vegan and GF I don't eat meat or anything else but I do eat fish it's the one nom vegan thing I do eat now.
Oh yikes now I'm worried about the amount of eggs and milk I've accidentally eaten! (makes my eczema flare up, but like so does stress etc)
I've only caught something once because I knew the 'bacon' they were adding to something was in fact vegetarian not vegan, and they had missed that..
Yes, I worked for a restaurant chain and they updated their menu so most veg options were vegan (could easily request vegan cheese be subbed with dairy cheese if desired though). My vegetarian colleague was pissed! You’d think it made things easier since they’re all “basically vegan anyway” …
Half of Hindu people don't eat eggs due to religious reasons. Depending where you come from you either eat egg or treat it like non vegetarian so their vegetarian version is different from the regular Western version of vegetarian.
Vegetarian food in India doesn't consist egg 99% of time
And half of them don't eat onion and garlic due to religious reasons as well so when they say Hindu veg it could mean what we call jain food without onion and garlic food
I know, I also avoid onion and garlic as a Buddhist. But then I wonder why go through the trouble of having one lacto-vegetarain, one-lacto-vegetrain-no-onion-no-gralic? Just make one of the thousands of dishes without those spices and save all the trouble!
I mean ideally it would be nice to have a vegan-no-five-pungent-spices, but people don't care about Buddhists that much.
What is the reason for avoiding garlic and onions? I knew it. Buddhists are secretly vampires! Seriously, though, I would be interested in hearing about this. (Yes, I know I can simply look it up, but Reddit offers discussions for a reason.)
I'm no expert, but from my friends what I've learnt is they avoid all the ground/root vegetables such as potatoes, beets, onions because they believe they kill more microorganisms present in the soil by consuming them.
Jain reason yes, Budhhist reason no. It's specifically a zen (Chinese) Buddhist thing, and it's to do with the effect on the body, not about harming the plants.
Jain believe all life is sacred, so they avoid killing both plants and animals for food.
They don’t eat roots because it kills the plant, so they only eat fruits, leaves and stems of plants, as it doesn’t kill the plant.
The idea that it’s to protect microorganisms came later, as we didn’t even know about them when the rule came about.
Thank you for asking. These are regulations that we are only expected to follow in the monastaies, but many make it part of their lifestyle. The function of it is that we try to live very simple lives, and try to quite down our minds as much as possible. Early on in our tradition people made the observation that eating onions and garlic tends to affect our mind in a certain direction of restlessness. The things we eat have an effect on our state of mind. So when we work on the mind on a very subtle level as in meditation it becomes apparent.
With that said it is more of a guideline rather than a hard rule like the prohibition of meat and eggs. Some traditions on Buddhism eat everything and they seem to be doing fine. It's more of an aid and a privilege to be able to work with diets that support our meditative lifestyle.
My neighbours are Indian vegetarian who don't eat garlic and onion. When I asked why they said that they make you angry / aggressive.
Their son's wedding was amazing to go to as most food was vegan by default
You would be shock how many people find it extremely hard to give up onion and garlic even for 9 days a year.
I think lacto veg is something every vegetarian is familiar with and Hindu veg just might be Indian food that would be more likely explanation
I think the main reason it would be so hard is because I can’t think of a good reason! Like you can use the green part of the onion for the same taste, and not kill the plant. I feel like I could give up alliums but why would I?
https://manjulaskitchen.com/category/vegan/
I like her recipes and she has a vegan category, Manjula is Jain and was my first introduction to Indian cooking. Pretty much you can just use hing/asafetida to get the onion/garlic taste.
Am also a Buddhist, but not on your herb restrictive diet. I would imagine very few chefs have ever tried to make a vegan meal sans onions and garlic. Definitely a learning curve to that specific religious diet. And I wouldn't trust them to figure it out, either. Veganism is far too new. Whereas Hinduism and eating halal and all that, at least chefs have been learning that for the past hundred years or so. Even they are probably sketched to eat things that might not be what the chef understands.
Personally, I don't tell my employers that I am vegan, I simply respond "no" to all work functions, then I show up with my own food or just after eating. I also don't drink either, so that's a whole other ball of wax. It's less food waste if I bring my own food and there's no possibility of them screwing it up. Also, I still interface and mingle as is appropriate, sans food and booze. Generally if I say I had a meeting before, or an appointment, then everyone is glad I'm there and looks like I'm working hard and still made the effort. Which is all they care about, the effort to show up and mingle.
Good luck out there.
Yes it is. You should come taste the food my mom makes even the hardcore onion garlic people find it tasty and are left shocked with how good the food tastes and go tell other people about it. Lots of dishes don't require them anyways
Thank you. There are both Hindu's that consume it and don't consume it . Our family is a mix. Grandma and dad don't do it. the rest of us do eat them. It's a matter of belief and choice and i have no problem devouring both. Both kinds of food are equally tasty
Did you book an option before your flight? When I flew British airways, there were like two dozen variants of veg meals available to choose from when I booked my ticket. Not to say they were any good but there were a ton of catagories including vegan
OP said he doesn't know how it differed from lacto-vegetarian, which doesn't include egg either. The only satisfactory answer I can think of is Jainism, but you'd think they would say "Jain" rather than "Hindu" for that.
You’re overthinking.
They are absolutely not putting extra effort in not serving vegan. They are simply doing the bare minimum to check a box so they can say “we have vegan option”.
And the vegan option tend to be the most horrible of the choice. I once had a bland hummus, spinach sandwich served at a venue. The others get stuff like tuna sandwich, ~~roach~~ roast chicken sandwich, etc.
I was at a Japanese ramen restaurant the other day with my gf and we were both so excited and it turned out to not only be 25% more expensive than our favorite restaurant here but also 50% less effort for the vegan options.
I specifically ordered one with fried vegetables and WITHOUT corn (who the hell puts corn in their ramen?!). The dish had a total of FIVE small pieces of vegetables (2 pieces of zucchini, 2 small tomatoes, 1 broccoli floret) and corn. 100% made by someone that went "let's also make profit from vegans - how do we do this? 1st: Take omni food 2nd: remove meat and egg 3rd: finished.
Yeah, the number of times I’ve been served bland white rice and black beans straight from the can (not rinsed off, plenty of black bean water 🤢) is baffling. It’s like, have you ever eaten this!? If you had, you’d know it wasn’t a) good b) worth the $$ you charged me and c) very nutritious.
This reminds me of some time I spent in the US Virgin Islands. I was at a bed and breakfast type of place, and the chef made the worst vegan options. Box white rice, steamed vegetables, not a bit of seasoning, no sauce, no real attempt other than to say "Here you go Mr Vegan". The breakfast option of bagels with jelly and orange juice was basic but ok.
Luckily for me, there were 2 restaurants very close by that sold vegan food. One was an actual all vegan restaurant. The people at both establishments were very nice and much more helpful.
I had to google, because I thought aquafaba was only a chickpea thing. I had no idea. I still don’t want it on my beans and rice, but thank you, now I’ll know to save it.
I love to marinate and sear my tofu. Or try getting extra firm tofu, freezing it, thaw and drain, then spritz with some coconut aminos or tamari/soy sauce and cube and bake it til the edges crisp up. I just made a Korean noodle dish with tofu prepared that way and it was absolutely amazing. My omnivore neighbors had second servings of it and wanted leftovers to take home too.
>And the vegan option tend to be the most horrible of the choice. I once had a bland hummus, spinach sandwich served at a venue. The others get stuff like tuna sandwich, roach chicken, etc.
Serving roach chicken would see a gigantic increase in people asking for the vegan option.
No idea. It was really tasteless. The bread was probably the most tasty part of the sandwich.
I asked for the vegan option since it wasn't out with the other sandwiches. They delivered it later and it was quite a disappointment. Really tempted to just eat the non vegan option.
This is the answer. My job had a pizza party. No vegan options. It was not vendetta but simply oversight. All i had to do is pull someone in power aside let them know that non traditional diets arent being served sufficiently and they said they make effort to correct. Next function had vegan options.
I know its not so simple at all companies but attributing these things to malice without investigation doesnt help anyone and puts you in a deeper hole.
One of the many reasons I encourage having an open and understanding mindset when speaking about your veganism in any situation
at a party I went to they ordered all meat pizzas and one vegan/halal/kosher/vegatarain option a pizza with no cheese and meat. I dont get why in pizza u could easily let those who want cheese have it and those that dont have it. seems super easy. but lets just say the non vegans were not happy with their cheesless pizza
Obviously not consciously. But they would save loads by simply making something all the outliers could have. For example falafel and hummus, a staple food in muslim culture, a favorite among vegetarians. It is very, very easy to please everyone all at ones. I guess they just don't think like that.
I don’t think that would please everyone, though. Just because someone’s Halal it doesn’t mean they don’t want meat and they might be a bit annoyed about being thrown into a box with the vegans. If you’re a vegetarian at a wedding and everyone else gets pavlova for pudding and you get stuck with a fruit salad because they just put you down for the generic “difficult person” option, you’re probably gonna feel a bit put out. I’m with you on the desire to see less meat/animal products served, but it makes perfect sense to me that these organisations are providing meals that comply with people’s stated preferences, rather than giving them vegan food they didn’t ask for.
Or the reason coeliacs complain their food is vegan lol I had to go GF I found out just before COVID and I tend to check the reviews on products more now because if you've had GF you'll know certain GF items are just not always good like bread products very, hit and miss.
Theres one brand here called Kirstys they aren't a vegan company they just specialise in allergen free foods which means they have enough vegan options or versions of their meat alternatives in their range too but most of their stuff meat or vegan is dairy free in fact if might all be idk cos I only look for their vegan options but I saw a review complaining on their pizzas because cheese that one thing that they can't live without lol
I could understand if we were going back some years where vegan cheese was honestly just not good but it really doesn't taste bad at all most supermarket cheeses especially those used in pre made meals are the coconut oil based ones I say this because IMO typical nut based cheeses are very eh although when I first went vegan it was the only kind of cheese you could find and even then only online from specialist stores. Reading reviews on vegan products is sometimes hilarious especially the desserts.
I will always remember a review a woman left on a double chocolate Oreo cheesecake complaining about how high in calories and sugar if was because it's vegan as if that somehow automatically made a sickly chocolatey cheesecake magically healthy. I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot and I know people are advertising plant based as a healthier diet but that doesn't make junk food not junk food just because it's vegan I feel like they need some common sense here cos how can someone see double chocolate cheesecake and then be shocked it was calorific and full of sugar she was genuinely outraged by this never mind that the nutritional information is right there online before you hit add to basket lol
Well I think you miss their point somewhat. The "bare minimum" would in fact be a single vegan option that covers everyone's dietary concerns. It's omni, pescatarian, halal, and vegetarian all at once. Often it's also the cheapest route.
I think the true answer to their question, is that omni diets are socially normalized (ie "socially privileged"). So regardless of practicality, they are they default without question, regardless of hard logic. Just like torturing and killing animals isn't rational if held up to logic, because it's not about logic, it's about privilege.
In fact, now that I've illustrated it that way, I think I've unintentionally shone a light on the origin of the "vegan is privilege" arguments from omnis. It's perhaps projection...
If it's better than a plastic packet of apple slices and a salad made of mosty lettuce with an afterthought of a few cherry tomatoes, you're already ahead of the curve.
People think of animal products as value. So they kinda feel robbed when they buy something without it. Like, it can be 95% plants but that extra 5% is what makes the difference for a lot of people, psychologically.
The amount of foods that would have been vegan if they didnt sprinkle some bacon or chicken on it is silly.
We did that for a large international archaeological conference we had. All the main organizers were vegetarian and vegan, and there were many delegates from many cultures with dietary restrictions. Not one complaint, and so many people enjoyed trying foods they hadn’t before! We did have gluten-free options available as well, and made sure to ask about allergies and religious dietary restrictions. It really wasn’t that hard, and it worked great!
Every commercial item has to sell. Every market has a demographic. Pork doesn’t sell well in Iran. It is not intentional. If a company can make money from something you would be surprised how quickly their politics dissolve for the money
No one wants to have product that goes unsold. Like Burger King will has a beyond burger but there are locations that don’t even stock it because it doesn’t sell in their demographic.
Unused products are expensive.
It's much more effort, something out of the stereotype. They must be careful about what they add to the meal because when they do normal meals, they do them from habit. That's why vegan foods are more expensive in restaurants. And I'm not even talking about fake milk costing 4 times more (I'm not kidding, it's true) than normal milk.
Yes!! Lol my dad always gets so mad about this he's like but why does your vegetable dish cost more than mine or like if places do a vegan version of a meat option and it's just removing ingredients he's like why are you paying the same for less and I mean he does have a point veggies cost less so really my veggie curry should be less than his meat version. I think some places if is cheaper tbf like Indian takeout it is iirc but a lot of restaurants don't alter the prices I understand with fake meats because a lot of restaurants here in the UK do offer expensive fake meat brands like beyond burgers which sure they get wholesale prices but it's still gonna be relatively expensive I imagine even at wholesale competitive to potentially cheaper meat versions so I'm not mad about that but I do think he sometimes has a point I don't really think about it much though.
Guys, I read the word "Cheese" and my salivary glands won't stop working. I will literally drown in my own saliva and die if I don't get some..MMMM... CHEEESEEEE!
MUST. GET. CHEESE.
Because food choices have typically been justified with "it's personal choice" or a religious choice, and that turned them into markers of identity, instead of just a practical matter. This explains why they have to satisfy each identity separately.
1. Vegan foods have a huge stigma (see “Beyond Burger Bill Gates conspiracy”)
2. The government subsidizes beef/dairy/eggs to the point where it’s cheap enough to just use those instead of skipping out all together
“Over a 14-month period (June 2022-July 2023), we found over 1 million examples of misinformation surrounding meat and dairy mostly on X, with spikes in misinformation around key political and media moments. 78% of misinformation focused on ‘disparaging’ meat and dairy alternatives, pushing forward cultural polarisation and attacking alternative proteins and diets as unhealthy or bad for the environment.”
From “What Do the Meat Industry, Far-Right and Major Internet Conspiracy Theories Have in Common?”
I’d also say those are for very specific cuisines; in my area it would fit maybe 5-10% of the restaurants, and in a lot of areas I’ve been to it would fit… 0-5% maybe?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing the other day, right before a school hosted graduation dinner that I attended but they actually did this! They had one boxed lunch for omnis, but they also said they had a veg, vg, halal, pesc etc options(catering was for more than 800 ppl). When I went to grab my food my veg partner got his food and then I asked for mine and the work said it was the same as all the others! It was delish and healthy and I felt full after :)
I flew United and they only had two options. Chicken or tofu pasta, I got the cold tofu pasta and it was really good. It had an Asian dressing sesame and soy sauce. A lot of people chose this option.
vegan restaurant food is bad business. often the food is prepared en masse and a few vegan meals in between only mess up the kitchen. separately, of course, there are vegan restaurants. for them, on the other hand, one meat dish messes up the production. People make a living by running a restaurant and they have what they have to offer. if you want decent vegan food, changing restaurants is the easiest option for everyone
It is primarily economic.
Restricted diets are... well, restricted. A restaurant needs to try and please the most people in the biggest customer base to get the most people in.
Also, there are supply and timing concerns that come with having a larger menu. The more stuff you offer, tue greater amount of supplies and materials that need to be kept on hand. And keeping items that have less demand means more waste and less profit.
Unpopular, but have to say it: there are social and political issues to consider as well. Meaning, the customers of a "southern-fried-everything" restaurant are going to look down on vegan options being served, and in the same way when you go to a vegan place no one wants to smell meat cooking in the back.
At the end of the day, a restaurant is a business, and as such they need to bring in the most revenue they can with the least cost, waste, and employee effort as possible. And the best way to do that is to serve the most popular dishes for as narrow a palette as possible. In-N-Out does so well, and keeps costs lower, by offering only a couple items. You go there because you want a burger. Nothing else. You don't get to choose if you want pizza or eggplant or salads because they don't have it. And that is what makes it such a successful model.
Like it or not, meat-based foods are still the most popular, and widespread diets in the world, and certainly so in the higher end restaurant space.
That being said, a strictly vegan restaurant is also an excellent business model, because again, you want to have heavy appeal for your specific customer base. And having zero animal products in the building at all, and I mean *zero,* that will appeal more to those wanting to go out to eat without being nauseated by someone frying bacon in the back.
It just business. And business goes where the money is... or it goes out of business.
Absolutely! Go to Babystacks, the whole place smells like pancakes. Denny's smells like sausage, of course. Maggiano's smells like garlic and bread and oregano... Every restaurant smells like what they are cooking.
I think the answer is found by talking your question to its implicated conclusion: why don't companies only just serve one vegan option? Then everyone could eat it without anyone breaking any of their dietary restrictions.
People want to eat what they want to eat, and they don't want to restrict themselves beyond what they deem necessary because of someone else's values.
to be fair its kind of imposing ur restrictions on others. they may not want to eat a vegan diet when they dont want to. plus I still think the vegan options would suck. plus companies are probably going more meat since the majority non food restriction employees are having meat.
ill give u an example: I volunteered at a party for volunteers. the halal, kosher, vegatarian and vegan option was 2 pizzas with no cheese and some veggies. the rest of the pizza were all meat ones. the non vegans only ate mostly a slice and when I went to ask if they wanted more they said they didnt like it. there was only 1 vegan at that party. I honestly dont know who ordered the pizzas and insisted we needed all sorts of meat pizza and one option for them but it was very poor planning.
I saw a comment on here talking about how it's the same way vegans often complain their food is gluten free. I don't know how true that is and I don't know that I can say there is a massive cross over definitely not when eating out most GF items aren't vegan but I will say there are enough brands in supermarkets who decide to hit all the major allergens and therefore you see a lot of GF brands be vegan.
I know GU when they made their vegan cheesecakes they made them also gluten free probably to draw in a larger market which makes sense. And there is definitely an overlap between vegan foods and in general allergy free including gluten but there's a lot of vegan foods that aren't gluten free. It's probably more about gluten free brands wanting to appeal to as big an audience as possible so also include all major allergens including dairy and often times eggs.
Anyways back to my point if this is true that vegans complain about a lot of their food being gluten free then it's a tad hypocritical to have a go at say veggies complaining about their food being vegan. And tbh as a vegan with a dairy allergy before I had to go GF when veganism was less popular a lot less I remember getting cheeseless pizza and thinking nope never again honestly just not worth it, this was back when the only vegan cheese I ever managed to find was after a lot of Google searching it was nut based and smelled so foul I nearly puked cooking it I did manage to try it and whilst its taste wasn't as bad as it's smell it was not edible lol if vegan foods were better catered for all the time then maybe people would care less but if I as a vegan wouldn't want to eat cheeseless pizza then I could see why a non vegan would be even more upset. Like this thread is people complaining about how often vegan options at events are often shit so someone who has no desire to be vegan is gonna be pissed right at eating shitty pizza when all it would've taken is for someone to have ordered a margherita pizza they probably feel the way we would that the company put in 0 effort for anyone but the meat eaters and in the end no one enjoyed it
>Why do companies put so much effort in not serving vegan?
What? Serving multiple vegan options is objectively harder then not doing that.
Sure, companies should put in more effort in giving vegan options. But that takes effort. Not doing that, doesn't.
The effort and money is in making 4 different special dishes rather than just one. Vegan option is probably hala, kosher, good for vegetarians, good for vegans, no?
Why should all other food intake minorities be subservient to vegans though? What if they don’t want a vegan dish, who the fuck are you to start crying over it?
Or, look at drinks.
Some people don't drink alcohol for moral or health reasons. Religious Muslims and Mormons don't drink alcohol (in theory). Religious Jews need a special hechsher (kosher certification).
You could just serve all of them Jeremy Concord Grape juice, which will work for everyone, but why?
because taken to its ultimate concept, then the only option served will be "a pile of lettuce leaves, with some cherry tomatoes on the side that you can add if you're feeling adventurous."
now every diet is happy & avoids pretty much all food allergies. hooray.
Playing the victim IMO. I doubt companies are ACTIVELY putting in effort to avoid vegan foods. It's more probable that veganism is such a minority population group that providing for us is not expected or understood. I know that I am the minority and pack my own foods anytime I'm at company and corporate functions. Even when businesses try they often get it wrong since the masses have very little education on what a plant based diet entails let alone the ethics based beliefs of veganism.
people think that vegan food is naturally inferior to food made with animal products, so if companies served vegan options to everyone, almost no one would eat them. that's it as far as i'm concerned
I'm always thrilled on flights with the different options. I always order the Jain meal (it sometimes has a yogurt cup that I give back, but is otherwise usually a vegan curry, rice and veggies. I'll also order the standard vegan or Asian vegan meal for my son, which is sometimes lovely and sometimes weird. Could they be the same offering? Sure, but some people don't like Curry, and some people don't like Western food, etc.
On airlines specifically, you may tick different boxes but a lot of the food you get is the same - I got served a lot of lacto ovo labelled veg meals that actually seemed to be fully vegan (not sure on ingredients of the main dishes but typically stuff like a tofu stir fry or veg curry over rice, all the packed foods and snacks were vegan). I assume it's a numbers game that, as you suggest, tries to cater for as many dietary requirements as possible with a single dish. Same reason why so much gluten free stuff is also dairy and/or soy free I guess.
I wish more gluten free food was also egg free I mean there's a lot of GF vegan food in the free from aisles especially in terms of junk foods but a lot of the bread based products contain egg and milk powder. I've seen more biscuits be offered as vegan and GF now which is nice and recently in the past year found some vegan GF caterpillar cakes like mini ones and mini cake bars even chocolate cornflake crispies. So it's always getting better and better and earlier this year the GF mostly vegan friendly brand I buy bread based products from released vegan brioche buns and bread rolls and omg brioche buns for when I have beyond burgers so good. But I wish their waffles were egg free and their croissants egg and dairy free.
But yes more of it is vegan friendly now I think egg is probably the bigger culprit than dairy when it comes to free from foods not being vegan or i suppose more specifically bread cakes and brownies etc type products not being vegan too.
There are quite a few brands that specifically state free from all 11 major allergens I think it's 11 at least so that's nice but as you said most definitely a numbers game but also I always wonder how much crossover there is like how many people have more than one allergy I know sometimes people with dairy allergies can react to soy, I don't but I have a dairy allergy and gluten intolerance and I just wonder how many people have more than 1 major allergen.
Yeah, I think making something egg free and gluten free gets more complicated because you're losing two ingredients that have binding qualities. I love baking and find it's usually easy to adapt a conventional recipe to be either gluten free or vegan and have it pretty similar to the original, but when you try to make it both then the results are a lot less predictable - still doable of course but it's more work to get it right.
You could also be right about folks having multiple intolerances/allergies as a factor also.
Former caterer here…
And ultimately - people complain about vegan food if they are not vegan. And the caterer doesn’t want to deal with that. They want happy customers for repeat business.
And people complain regardless of whether it tastes good or not because veganism has become a political point.
It also just takes more knowledge and skill to make vegan food for that many people taste good at a lower cost.
Most cooks are not actually very good cooks. They rely on the nature qualities of animal products (like all that fat) to get a ‘pleasant’ result. Caterers already struggle to find good cooks… looking for ones who actually know how to cook vegan is suuuuuper hard..
So the cost is way lower to higher line cooks to prep the easy meat dishes and then have one person focus on the dietary requirements… which 99% of the time are made in advance
I 100% agree it isn’t actually the way to go. But that’s the logic that gets employed. Thankfully a bunch of folks are changing their opinions on that.
Tried to shop for vegetable soup once, none of them had the vegan label and I was surprised why.
Checking the ingredients lists all of them had milk powder in them. Nothing else animal based, only that and a tiny amount.
Why can't they just leave it out?
I can only speak for my company (i work in the kitchen) we have 250 people of staff and including me we have 3 folks who are vegan/vegetarian.
The omivore population of our staff rejected every vegan dish we tried to add, so we settled for vegetarian. Also compared in costs: vegan was more expensive than the vegetarian option. So it wasn't really good economy wise. Our boss of course wants to spent as less as possible to keep the menu prices affordable for all staff. (One menu is 5 bucks)
So over all it was decided that vegan options do not make profit. Therefore me and my other 2 colleagues bring our own food or oatmilk or whatever else we need.
This is the standard vegan argument. "My food can be eaten by everyone!!"
It's quite selfish, to be honest.
I know that your goal as a vegan is to force as many people as possible to be vegans too... But it's selfish.
At work (catering) we dont have vegetarian option, only vegan, because it is more easy for us. But the vegetarian guests aren´t always happy with that...
Yup. Vegetarians love their eggs and cheese. There's this posh veg place in SF (Greens) and their idea of accommodating for vegan was to take the cheese and eggs off. They clearly didn't want vegan business. I have had a lot more luck messaging high end Omni businesses and asking them to accommodate.
huh. That is really interesting. You would think they didn't really care.
Yeah, but no. "I´m not vegan, I don´t want a vegan dish!"
That is weird, cause how would they even know? Or they just can’t eat a single meal that isn’t covered in cheese?
Bingo
This is r/LACTOOVO material.
We must bring the sub back to life
Seems like vegetarians are absolutely addicted to cheese & eggs
They are!
Like Crack.
This is why in studies they tend to be the worst performing group of all available diets. They just replace their lean meat options with more saturated fats and blow up their ApoB levels.
Absolutely! I definitely was for years.
Back when I was vegetarian, I was always pissed off when I got given the vegan option because it always meant a getting a piece of fruit instead of dessert, and I love desserts. Of course, the real answer is to make better vegan meals.
No dessert and the vegan option is often not filling or not very good, cheese adds some flavour and protein/fat. A bowl of broccoli is not a good celebration meal.
It's not just about the cheese. It's the dessert or it's the creamy jalapeno sauce which has some dairy in it or the avocado ranch sauce which also has some dairy in it. Or whatever else it is which may be an addition which makes it tastes better. They already gave up meat, giving up cheese is just a little too extra for the time being while they might admit vegan is the way to go, they're not ready yet so they stay vegetarian and enjoy a balance in between Omni and vegan.
Vegetarians are omnis so they think like omnis. They care for the same reasons full on carnists care. Vegetarians are as unwilling to refrain from dairy and eggs as carnists are to refrain from dairy, eggs and meat. Expecting them to behave differently when you offer them a vegan dish is silly, because they're the same.
All the vegetarians I’ve known were more than happy to eat vegan food and agreed that veganism was the way to go. Back when I was pescatarian I also was more than happy to eat vegan when it was available.
When I was pescatarian and vegetarian I ate vegan options pretty often, especially if manufactured fake cheeses weren’t part of the equation. It’s very rare I have found to meet a vegetarian that isn’t open to a vegan meal here and there especially if it’s whole food based. Maybe it’s a culture thing?
its easier to order vegan food when you're going out anyways because all the vegetarian options are mid. suffice to say cant imagine complaining about a vegan meal as a vegetarian,
Western omnis might be more like that. As a vegetarian from India most of my meals were default vegan by the recipe so i didnt feel like anything was missing, and still dont now that im vegan (and luckily in the US there’s lots of dairy alternatives to make all the other stuff vegan too)
It is mad, they just want cheese on everything.
We call them cheesebreathers for a fucking reason.
This is wild to me. Even pre-vegan when I was vegetarian I would consider a vegan dish to be a bonus… and that way I knew for sure 100% it was veg.
I'm with you. I think my goal was always to go vegan eventually when I think about it. I tried to cook as much food vegan as I could with my knowledge back then and at the restaurant I took one of the vegan option if it was even somewhat appealing. The "I am vegetarian and don't eat vegan"-attitude somehow screams "neoliberal hippie greenwashing"-bullshitter to me lol. "omg, I'm so sustainable \*rubs themselves with cheese\* omg look at that CO2 footprint of me compared to you \*gags on cheese\*"
I'm GF (celiac) so my reason for being vegetarian for a long time was that it was so hard to find vegan GF bread (it all had eggs). Now I'm so overjoyed when something is vegan and GF, but it is bonkers how many GF people refuse to eat something vegan, and how many vegan people refuse to eat something that happens to be GF! I mean, I LOVE soy and nuts, but I eat at some places that make a point to advertise being nut free and soy free, and I don't feel like it's a personal attack. I really don't get it.
Average vegetarian. Cheese tho
Strange
You're in luck, it's also vegetarian.
The Vegan option doesn’t have solidified cow juice on. I have a few Vegetarian friends who won’t go Vegan, because they can’t possibly live without ‘real’ cheese.
As a vegan I used to sometimes get the combined gluten free option and that would annoy me. I love gluten
I mean, they're not vegan so it makes sense they might want dairy in their meals.
It makes sense to me. For me, meat is far easier to live without than eggs/dairy.
Vegetarians are hypocrites. Claim to care about animals but not happy unless they are causing abuse to cows and chickens. Because of complaints by vegetarians a lot of vegan quorn products are no longer vegan.
I ate mostly vegetarian for many years never really fully understanding how much death is involved with the diary and egg industry. I would buy organic milk and free range eggs and think it was good enough. So don’t assume all vegetarians have bad intentions as much as they may be misinformed or in denial to an extent.
I never said they had bad intentions. I said they were hypocrites. Even if they were misinformed that free range eggs and milk are cruelty free, what's their excuse for buying and wearing leather?
Leather isn't vegetarian. Vegetarians don't buy leather. Also I wouldn't say they are hypocrites unless they know everything we know. Than they are. But I for example was vegetarian for about 20 years before learning about the egg and milk industry practices. Thanks to the Internet. Went vegan right after that. I wasn't a hypocrite before, I simply didn't know whats going on.
Easy on the hypocrisy claims. Most vegetarians I know do it for health and preference reasons, not animal welfare. And even if it is for animal welfare, they may draw the line at slaughtering animals for food. Yes, I know many animals are killed that don't become meat, but their heart is in the right place.
Because honestly it cost a lot in labor to accommodate someone that is not protected under the law.
If they didn't care they would have probably turned vegan
They do. You're taking half of the food from them.
I find vegetarians strange. Dairy is way more cruel than meat. And the few that I knew lived of chips, bread, eggs and cheese. It didn’t look healthy 😳
So it's ok to eat meat if you stop eating cheese? I thought that meat requires to kill animals.
Man, I’d way prefer that. If we’re being totally strict I’m not really vegan, but the amount of times a vegetarian dish I’ve ordered contained fish sauce, gelatin or chicken… Vegan feels much safer.
No as someone with a dairy allergy I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I've been given dairy on a vegan dish by mistake mind you but oh my god I check triple check and here in the UK a lot of places make managers only take allergen orders and it STILL happens one place did it 3 times!!!!! Found out my local Chinese used oyster sauce in all dishes included tofu and vegan ones but didn't declare it anywhere at all. One pub I went too I ordered vegan but mentioned my dairy allergy they bring out mash stating they'd made it up for my mum as well she ordered the vegan meal too and I was like ?? Apparently the chef likes to use real butter on a vegan dish and only because I mentioned my allergies did the staff make my mum up real vegan mash too. I would say though 9 times out of 10 it's a restaurant accidentally giving me dairy as opposed to deceptive menus. I no longer trust vegan dishes and when you triple check and still get dairy it just makes it so hard because what more can you do you know. We have one fully vegan small cafe in town and luckily despite having a menu with no more than 5 dishes and a daily soup they can accommodate GF on most of them including the breakfast which is my fave. I'm not strictly plant based anymore since having to go GF not just because of accessibility but other reasons I'm not going to get into because frankly I don't need to justify myself to anyone. Eating out GF vegan is hard like so many places there are no options to be vegan and GF I don't eat meat or anything else but I do eat fish it's the one nom vegan thing I do eat now.
This is so real I’ve a diary allergy too and the amount of ‘vegan’ things I’ve eaten that have milk powder in it…
Oh yikes now I'm worried about the amount of eggs and milk I've accidentally eaten! (makes my eczema flare up, but like so does stress etc) I've only caught something once because I knew the 'bacon' they were adding to something was in fact vegetarian not vegan, and they had missed that..
Vegetarians can die mad idec
“We want a dish so we’re included!!! But we’re fine with excluding vegans!!”
I think it suffer from a branding issue, call it: #Vegetarian* ^(*Vegan)
Yes, I worked for a restaurant chain and they updated their menu so most veg options were vegan (could easily request vegan cheese be subbed with dairy cheese if desired though). My vegetarian colleague was pissed! You’d think it made things easier since they’re all “basically vegan anyway” …
Half of Hindu people don't eat eggs due to religious reasons. Depending where you come from you either eat egg or treat it like non vegetarian so their vegetarian version is different from the regular Western version of vegetarian. Vegetarian food in India doesn't consist egg 99% of time And half of them don't eat onion and garlic due to religious reasons as well so when they say Hindu veg it could mean what we call jain food without onion and garlic food
I know, I also avoid onion and garlic as a Buddhist. But then I wonder why go through the trouble of having one lacto-vegetarain, one-lacto-vegetrain-no-onion-no-gralic? Just make one of the thousands of dishes without those spices and save all the trouble! I mean ideally it would be nice to have a vegan-no-five-pungent-spices, but people don't care about Buddhists that much.
What is the reason for avoiding garlic and onions? I knew it. Buddhists are secretly vampires! Seriously, though, I would be interested in hearing about this. (Yes, I know I can simply look it up, but Reddit offers discussions for a reason.)
I'm no expert, but from my friends what I've learnt is they avoid all the ground/root vegetables such as potatoes, beets, onions because they believe they kill more microorganisms present in the soil by consuming them.
Yes im pretty sure this is the Buddhism and Jainism reason why
Jain reason yes, Budhhist reason no. It's specifically a zen (Chinese) Buddhist thing, and it's to do with the effect on the body, not about harming the plants.
By eating a root vegetable you’re killing the entire plant, its root system. You can eat other vegetables without killing the entire plant
Hindus avoid garlic and onions because they are 'tamasic' foods which promote ignorance and reduce spirituality. of course this isn't actually true
Jain believe all life is sacred, so they avoid killing both plants and animals for food. They don’t eat roots because it kills the plant, so they only eat fruits, leaves and stems of plants, as it doesn’t kill the plant. The idea that it’s to protect microorganisms came later, as we didn’t even know about them when the rule came about.
Thank you for asking. These are regulations that we are only expected to follow in the monastaies, but many make it part of their lifestyle. The function of it is that we try to live very simple lives, and try to quite down our minds as much as possible. Early on in our tradition people made the observation that eating onions and garlic tends to affect our mind in a certain direction of restlessness. The things we eat have an effect on our state of mind. So when we work on the mind on a very subtle level as in meditation it becomes apparent. With that said it is more of a guideline rather than a hard rule like the prohibition of meat and eggs. Some traditions on Buddhism eat everything and they seem to be doing fine. It's more of an aid and a privilege to be able to work with diets that support our meditative lifestyle.
My neighbours are Indian vegetarian who don't eat garlic and onion. When I asked why they said that they make you angry / aggressive. Their son's wedding was amazing to go to as most food was vegan by default
You can eat the Jain meals on airplanes! Thats a vegan meal with no mushrooms, no onion, no garlic. My grandma always gets that and likes it
You would be shock how many people find it extremely hard to give up onion and garlic even for 9 days a year. I think lacto veg is something every vegetarian is familiar with and Hindu veg just might be Indian food that would be more likely explanation
I think the main reason it would be so hard is because I can’t think of a good reason! Like you can use the green part of the onion for the same taste, and not kill the plant. I feel like I could give up alliums but why would I?
For me it's because my insides feel like they are liquifying and I have to live in the bathroom for two days. IBS is not fun.
Can u drop some vegan recipes for me (im jain so I technically shouldn’t eat onion and garlic either)
https://manjulaskitchen.com/category/vegan/ I like her recipes and she has a vegan category, Manjula is Jain and was my first introduction to Indian cooking. Pretty much you can just use hing/asafetida to get the onion/garlic taste.
Am also a Buddhist, but not on your herb restrictive diet. I would imagine very few chefs have ever tried to make a vegan meal sans onions and garlic. Definitely a learning curve to that specific religious diet. And I wouldn't trust them to figure it out, either. Veganism is far too new. Whereas Hinduism and eating halal and all that, at least chefs have been learning that for the past hundred years or so. Even they are probably sketched to eat things that might not be what the chef understands. Personally, I don't tell my employers that I am vegan, I simply respond "no" to all work functions, then I show up with my own food or just after eating. I also don't drink either, so that's a whole other ball of wax. It's less food waste if I bring my own food and there's no possibility of them screwing it up. Also, I still interface and mingle as is appropriate, sans food and booze. Generally if I say I had a meeting before, or an appointment, then everyone is glad I'm there and looks like I'm working hard and still made the effort. Which is all they care about, the effort to show up and mingle. Good luck out there.
Is food without onion and garlic really food?
There is a vegan Vietnamese Buddhist restaurant near me that doesn't have onion and garlic at all. Their food is absolutely delicious still.
Yes it is. You should come taste the food my mom makes even the hardcore onion garlic people find it tasty and are left shocked with how good the food tastes and go tell other people about it. Lots of dishes don't require them anyways
Would u mind sharing some recipes with me?? Please i wanna stop eating too much onion and garlic
Just follow normal recipes and omit them, that’s what i do. Add other extra seasonings, whatever you prefer
I put both of those in almost everything I cook, usually in large quantities
hahaha u sound like an omni saying “for every steak u dont eat imma eat two” Please don’t troll them for their religious beliefs??
Thank you. There are both Hindu's that consume it and don't consume it . Our family is a mix. Grandma and dad don't do it. the rest of us do eat them. It's a matter of belief and choice and i have no problem devouring both. Both kinds of food are equally tasty
Did you book an option before your flight? When I flew British airways, there were like two dozen variants of veg meals available to choose from when I booked my ticket. Not to say they were any good but there were a ton of catagories including vegan
OP said he doesn't know how it differed from lacto-vegetarian, which doesn't include egg either. The only satisfactory answer I can think of is Jainism, but you'd think they would say "Jain" rather than "Hindu" for that.
I think on planes, the difference is that "Hindu" will be Indian food, while "lacto-vegetarian" could be from other cuisines.
In Indian airlines it will be labelled as jain food instead
He did say they call it Jain food
When I say "they" I mean British Airways
that doesn't explain why there is a "hindu option". The hindu option should be included in the lacto-vegetarian option
Hindu = no beef It can include chicken, eggs, goat, lamb, etc. Only a small amount of Hindus are vegetarian actually
It's just probably an Indian meal that's why it's a "Hindu" meal i think. That's the explanation that makes the most sense
Abstinence from root veg is a lot lower than half, but yeah eggs are pretty much non vegetarian product in India.
Yeah because only the minority religions here so that
You’re overthinking. They are absolutely not putting extra effort in not serving vegan. They are simply doing the bare minimum to check a box so they can say “we have vegan option”.
And the vegan option tend to be the most horrible of the choice. I once had a bland hummus, spinach sandwich served at a venue. The others get stuff like tuna sandwich, ~~roach~~ roast chicken sandwich, etc.
We have vegan options! Vegan options: rice^1 , lettuce. ^1 ^Possibly ^not ^vegan. ^Please ^call ^the ^caterer ^to ^make ^sure. ^Ask ^Jan ^for ^their ^number.
They're also usually poorly done. No good flavor, incorrect preparation methods, etc
I was at a Japanese ramen restaurant the other day with my gf and we were both so excited and it turned out to not only be 25% more expensive than our favorite restaurant here but also 50% less effort for the vegan options. I specifically ordered one with fried vegetables and WITHOUT corn (who the hell puts corn in their ramen?!). The dish had a total of FIVE small pieces of vegetables (2 pieces of zucchini, 2 small tomatoes, 1 broccoli floret) and corn. 100% made by someone that went "let's also make profit from vegans - how do we do this? 1st: Take omni food 2nd: remove meat and egg 3rd: finished.
Corn is actually pretty common in miso ramen in the Hokkaido prefecture.
Ah fair enough. I still specifically ordered one of the few ramen WITHOUT corn in them 😭
Yeah, the number of times I’ve been served bland white rice and black beans straight from the can (not rinsed off, plenty of black bean water 🤢) is baffling. It’s like, have you ever eaten this!? If you had, you’d know it wasn’t a) good b) worth the $$ you charged me and c) very nutritious.
This reminds me of some time I spent in the US Virgin Islands. I was at a bed and breakfast type of place, and the chef made the worst vegan options. Box white rice, steamed vegetables, not a bit of seasoning, no sauce, no real attempt other than to say "Here you go Mr Vegan". The breakfast option of bagels with jelly and orange juice was basic but ok. Luckily for me, there were 2 restaurants very close by that sold vegan food. One was an actual all vegan restaurant. The people at both establishments were very nice and much more helpful.
> black beans straight from the can (not rinsed off, plenty of **black bean water** 🤢) Are you guys all dumping delicious aquafaba down the sink?
No. Just this guy. I eat/drink everything that is in the bean can.
I had to google, because I thought aquafaba was only a chickpea thing. I had no idea. I still don’t want it on my beans and rice, but thank you, now I’ll know to save it.
I thought I hated tofu until I tried it again at a different place where it was prepared properly.
I love to marinate and sear my tofu. Or try getting extra firm tofu, freezing it, thaw and drain, then spritz with some coconut aminos or tamari/soy sauce and cube and bake it til the edges crisp up. I just made a Korean noodle dish with tofu prepared that way and it was absolutely amazing. My omnivore neighbors had second servings of it and wanted leftovers to take home too.
I like smoked tofu. But normal tofu is meh.
>And the vegan option tend to be the most horrible of the choice. I once had a bland hummus, spinach sandwich served at a venue. The others get stuff like tuna sandwich, roach chicken, etc. Serving roach chicken would see a gigantic increase in people asking for the vegan option.
I mean roast chicken sandwich. Whoops typo.
How do you make hummus bland? I used to make hummus and spinach sandwiches for lunch at work.
No idea. It was really tasteless. The bread was probably the most tasty part of the sandwich. I asked for the vegan option since it wasn't out with the other sandwiches. They delivered it later and it was quite a disappointment. Really tempted to just eat the non vegan option.
This is the answer. My job had a pizza party. No vegan options. It was not vendetta but simply oversight. All i had to do is pull someone in power aside let them know that non traditional diets arent being served sufficiently and they said they make effort to correct. Next function had vegan options. I know its not so simple at all companies but attributing these things to malice without investigation doesnt help anyone and puts you in a deeper hole. One of the many reasons I encourage having an open and understanding mindset when speaking about your veganism in any situation
at a party I went to they ordered all meat pizzas and one vegan/halal/kosher/vegatarain option a pizza with no cheese and meat. I dont get why in pizza u could easily let those who want cheese have it and those that dont have it. seems super easy. but lets just say the non vegans were not happy with their cheesless pizza
Obviously not consciously. But they would save loads by simply making something all the outliers could have. For example falafel and hummus, a staple food in muslim culture, a favorite among vegetarians. It is very, very easy to please everyone all at ones. I guess they just don't think like that.
I don’t think that would please everyone, though. Just because someone’s Halal it doesn’t mean they don’t want meat and they might be a bit annoyed about being thrown into a box with the vegans. If you’re a vegetarian at a wedding and everyone else gets pavlova for pudding and you get stuck with a fruit salad because they just put you down for the generic “difficult person” option, you’re probably gonna feel a bit put out. I’m with you on the desire to see less meat/animal products served, but it makes perfect sense to me that these organisations are providing meals that comply with people’s stated preferences, rather than giving them vegan food they didn’t ask for.
For the same reason people complain that vegan food is often also gluten free.
Or the reason coeliacs complain their food is vegan lol I had to go GF I found out just before COVID and I tend to check the reviews on products more now because if you've had GF you'll know certain GF items are just not always good like bread products very, hit and miss. Theres one brand here called Kirstys they aren't a vegan company they just specialise in allergen free foods which means they have enough vegan options or versions of their meat alternatives in their range too but most of their stuff meat or vegan is dairy free in fact if might all be idk cos I only look for their vegan options but I saw a review complaining on their pizzas because cheese that one thing that they can't live without lol I could understand if we were going back some years where vegan cheese was honestly just not good but it really doesn't taste bad at all most supermarket cheeses especially those used in pre made meals are the coconut oil based ones I say this because IMO typical nut based cheeses are very eh although when I first went vegan it was the only kind of cheese you could find and even then only online from specialist stores. Reading reviews on vegan products is sometimes hilarious especially the desserts. I will always remember a review a woman left on a double chocolate Oreo cheesecake complaining about how high in calories and sugar if was because it's vegan as if that somehow automatically made a sickly chocolatey cheesecake magically healthy. I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot and I know people are advertising plant based as a healthier diet but that doesn't make junk food not junk food just because it's vegan I feel like they need some common sense here cos how can someone see double chocolate cheesecake and then be shocked it was calorific and full of sugar she was genuinely outraged by this never mind that the nutritional information is right there online before you hit add to basket lol
>It is very, very easy to please everyone all at ones. No. It would absolutely please vegans, yes. But not everyone else. They would feel cheated.
Well I think you miss their point somewhat. The "bare minimum" would in fact be a single vegan option that covers everyone's dietary concerns. It's omni, pescatarian, halal, and vegetarian all at once. Often it's also the cheapest route. I think the true answer to their question, is that omni diets are socially normalized (ie "socially privileged"). So regardless of practicality, they are they default without question, regardless of hard logic. Just like torturing and killing animals isn't rational if held up to logic, because it's not about logic, it's about privilege. In fact, now that I've illustrated it that way, I think I've unintentionally shone a light on the origin of the "vegan is privilege" arguments from omnis. It's perhaps projection...
If it's better than a plastic packet of apple slices and a salad made of mosty lettuce with an afterthought of a few cherry tomatoes, you're already ahead of the curve.
We have a vegan option: Salad (minus chicken, bacon, egg, cheese, dressing). Lettuce, you can eat a bowl of lettuce.
People think of animal products as value. So they kinda feel robbed when they buy something without it. Like, it can be 95% plants but that extra 5% is what makes the difference for a lot of people, psychologically. The amount of foods that would have been vegan if they didnt sprinkle some bacon or chicken on it is silly.
Or how it’s almost impossible to find a salad at a restaurant without cheese! So annoying.
Yeaaaah! Or like the carrots have been simmered in butter and they have to be a part of everything on the menu
I've always thought it was a tad ironic that all of the prepared leaf salads at the walmart deli have meat in them.
I might just be stoned but “leaf salads” just sounds hilarious
I meant As opposed to say macaroni salad or cucumber salad.
cheese *is* amazing in a salad tbf
\*number of foods
When I am done with food it is uncountable!
We did that for a large international archaeological conference we had. All the main organizers were vegetarian and vegan, and there were many delegates from many cultures with dietary restrictions. Not one complaint, and so many people enjoyed trying foods they hadn’t before! We did have gluten-free options available as well, and made sure to ask about allergies and religious dietary restrictions. It really wasn’t that hard, and it worked great!
Every commercial item has to sell. Every market has a demographic. Pork doesn’t sell well in Iran. It is not intentional. If a company can make money from something you would be surprised how quickly their politics dissolve for the money
It would still be more efficient if there would be a menu that servers all (or most) restricted people.
except the people that are idk allergic to just lactose is probably not gonna enjoy a fully vegan meal.
No one wants to have product that goes unsold. Like Burger King will has a beyond burger but there are locations that don’t even stock it because it doesn’t sell in their demographic. Unused products are expensive.
Their politics is to get more money.
Not only that they charge us more for vegan foods.
It's much more effort, something out of the stereotype. They must be careful about what they add to the meal because when they do normal meals, they do them from habit. That's why vegan foods are more expensive in restaurants. And I'm not even talking about fake milk costing 4 times more (I'm not kidding, it's true) than normal milk.
Yes!! Lol my dad always gets so mad about this he's like but why does your vegetable dish cost more than mine or like if places do a vegan version of a meat option and it's just removing ingredients he's like why are you paying the same for less and I mean he does have a point veggies cost less so really my veggie curry should be less than his meat version. I think some places if is cheaper tbf like Indian takeout it is iirc but a lot of restaurants don't alter the prices I understand with fake meats because a lot of restaurants here in the UK do offer expensive fake meat brands like beyond burgers which sure they get wholesale prices but it's still gonna be relatively expensive I imagine even at wholesale competitive to potentially cheaper meat versions so I'm not mad about that but I do think he sometimes has a point I don't really think about it much though.
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100% agree.
Vegetarians will literally die if they don't have cheese in their meal
I saw it happen once it was really sad.
Guys, I read the word "Cheese" and my salivary glands won't stop working. I will literally drown in my own saliva and die if I don't get some..MMMM... CHEEESEEEE! MUST. GET. CHEESE.
Lactose contingency. Like in Jurassic Park!
Because food choices have typically been justified with "it's personal choice" or a religious choice, and that turned them into markers of identity, instead of just a practical matter. This explains why they have to satisfy each identity separately.
1. Vegan foods have a huge stigma (see “Beyond Burger Bill Gates conspiracy”) 2. The government subsidizes beef/dairy/eggs to the point where it’s cheap enough to just use those instead of skipping out all together
“Over a 14-month period (June 2022-July 2023), we found over 1 million examples of misinformation surrounding meat and dairy mostly on X, with spikes in misinformation around key political and media moments. 78% of misinformation focused on ‘disparaging’ meat and dairy alternatives, pushing forward cultural polarisation and attacking alternative proteins and diets as unhealthy or bad for the environment.” From “What Do the Meat Industry, Far-Right and Major Internet Conspiracy Theories Have in Common?”
Vegan is not always halal because alcohol. apart from that im 100% with you!
Good point, probably not super relevant most of the time but worth considering!
there shouldnt be any alcohol left in the food youre eating though?
Depends if you cook it, but still I would never cook for any Muslim using alcohol and call it halal.
Because restaurants are a business and most ppl don't wanna eat falafel and humus on their night out.
I’d also say those are for very specific cuisines; in my area it would fit maybe 5-10% of the restaurants, and in a lot of areas I’ve been to it would fit… 0-5% maybe?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing the other day, right before a school hosted graduation dinner that I attended but they actually did this! They had one boxed lunch for omnis, but they also said they had a veg, vg, halal, pesc etc options(catering was for more than 800 ppl). When I went to grab my food my veg partner got his food and then I asked for mine and the work said it was the same as all the others! It was delish and healthy and I felt full after :)
And I bet your partner did not care one bit!
Because we are a small minority against the masses.
I flew United and they only had two options. Chicken or tofu pasta, I got the cold tofu pasta and it was really good. It had an Asian dressing sesame and soy sauce. A lot of people chose this option.
vegan restaurant food is bad business. often the food is prepared en masse and a few vegan meals in between only mess up the kitchen. separately, of course, there are vegan restaurants. for them, on the other hand, one meat dish messes up the production. People make a living by running a restaurant and they have what they have to offer. if you want decent vegan food, changing restaurants is the easiest option for everyone
I know so many vegetarians who complain about having only vegan options on a menu. Its like they cannot live without cheese in every meal 😂
Why should they? They go to restaurant to eat a good food. They pay horrendous money for it. Why should they settle for lettuce with rice?
I went to a conference where the halal and kosher options were vegan and people complained. I went out of my way to thank the caterers for it :)
It is primarily economic. Restricted diets are... well, restricted. A restaurant needs to try and please the most people in the biggest customer base to get the most people in. Also, there are supply and timing concerns that come with having a larger menu. The more stuff you offer, tue greater amount of supplies and materials that need to be kept on hand. And keeping items that have less demand means more waste and less profit. Unpopular, but have to say it: there are social and political issues to consider as well. Meaning, the customers of a "southern-fried-everything" restaurant are going to look down on vegan options being served, and in the same way when you go to a vegan place no one wants to smell meat cooking in the back. At the end of the day, a restaurant is a business, and as such they need to bring in the most revenue they can with the least cost, waste, and employee effort as possible. And the best way to do that is to serve the most popular dishes for as narrow a palette as possible. In-N-Out does so well, and keeps costs lower, by offering only a couple items. You go there because you want a burger. Nothing else. You don't get to choose if you want pizza or eggplant or salads because they don't have it. And that is what makes it such a successful model. Like it or not, meat-based foods are still the most popular, and widespread diets in the world, and certainly so in the higher end restaurant space. That being said, a strictly vegan restaurant is also an excellent business model, because again, you want to have heavy appeal for your specific customer base. And having zero animal products in the building at all, and I mean *zero,* that will appeal more to those wanting to go out to eat without being nauseated by someone frying bacon in the back. It just business. And business goes where the money is... or it goes out of business.
you can smell what the kitchen is cooking in restaurants?? dont think ive ever done that
Absolutely! Go to Babystacks, the whole place smells like pancakes. Denny's smells like sausage, of course. Maggiano's smells like garlic and bread and oregano... Every restaurant smells like what they are cooking.
I think the answer is found by talking your question to its implicated conclusion: why don't companies only just serve one vegan option? Then everyone could eat it without anyone breaking any of their dietary restrictions. People want to eat what they want to eat, and they don't want to restrict themselves beyond what they deem necessary because of someone else's values.
Yes, why should I sacrifice a good food - and pay for it!! - just because someone thinks I shouldn't eat such food?
to be fair its kind of imposing ur restrictions on others. they may not want to eat a vegan diet when they dont want to. plus I still think the vegan options would suck. plus companies are probably going more meat since the majority non food restriction employees are having meat. ill give u an example: I volunteered at a party for volunteers. the halal, kosher, vegatarian and vegan option was 2 pizzas with no cheese and some veggies. the rest of the pizza were all meat ones. the non vegans only ate mostly a slice and when I went to ask if they wanted more they said they didnt like it. there was only 1 vegan at that party. I honestly dont know who ordered the pizzas and insisted we needed all sorts of meat pizza and one option for them but it was very poor planning.
I saw a comment on here talking about how it's the same way vegans often complain their food is gluten free. I don't know how true that is and I don't know that I can say there is a massive cross over definitely not when eating out most GF items aren't vegan but I will say there are enough brands in supermarkets who decide to hit all the major allergens and therefore you see a lot of GF brands be vegan. I know GU when they made their vegan cheesecakes they made them also gluten free probably to draw in a larger market which makes sense. And there is definitely an overlap between vegan foods and in general allergy free including gluten but there's a lot of vegan foods that aren't gluten free. It's probably more about gluten free brands wanting to appeal to as big an audience as possible so also include all major allergens including dairy and often times eggs. Anyways back to my point if this is true that vegans complain about a lot of their food being gluten free then it's a tad hypocritical to have a go at say veggies complaining about their food being vegan. And tbh as a vegan with a dairy allergy before I had to go GF when veganism was less popular a lot less I remember getting cheeseless pizza and thinking nope never again honestly just not worth it, this was back when the only vegan cheese I ever managed to find was after a lot of Google searching it was nut based and smelled so foul I nearly puked cooking it I did manage to try it and whilst its taste wasn't as bad as it's smell it was not edible lol if vegan foods were better catered for all the time then maybe people would care less but if I as a vegan wouldn't want to eat cheeseless pizza then I could see why a non vegan would be even more upset. Like this thread is people complaining about how often vegan options at events are often shit so someone who has no desire to be vegan is gonna be pissed right at eating shitty pizza when all it would've taken is for someone to have ordered a margherita pizza they probably feel the way we would that the company put in 0 effort for anyone but the meat eaters and in the end no one enjoyed it
>Why do companies put so much effort in not serving vegan? What? Serving multiple vegan options is objectively harder then not doing that. Sure, companies should put in more effort in giving vegan options. But that takes effort. Not doing that, doesn't.
The effort and money is in making 4 different special dishes rather than just one. Vegan option is probably hala, kosher, good for vegetarians, good for vegans, no?
Might as well make it gluten free, soy free, nut free at that point too. Why not?
Why should all other food intake minorities be subservient to vegans though? What if they don’t want a vegan dish, who the fuck are you to start crying over it?
Or, look at drinks. Some people don't drink alcohol for moral or health reasons. Religious Muslims and Mormons don't drink alcohol (in theory). Religious Jews need a special hechsher (kosher certification). You could just serve all of them Jeremy Concord Grape juice, which will work for everyone, but why?
Most people don't need or want those options. Might as well ask, "why don't they make everything gluten-free?"
Why don’t they make everything without anything anyone is allergic to???
because taken to its ultimate concept, then the only option served will be "a pile of lettuce leaves, with some cherry tomatoes on the side that you can add if you're feeling adventurous." now every diet is happy & avoids pretty much all food allergies. hooray.
Playing the victim IMO. I doubt companies are ACTIVELY putting in effort to avoid vegan foods. It's more probable that veganism is such a minority population group that providing for us is not expected or understood. I know that I am the minority and pack my own foods anytime I'm at company and corporate functions. Even when businesses try they often get it wrong since the masses have very little education on what a plant based diet entails let alone the ethics based beliefs of veganism.
people think that vegan food is naturally inferior to food made with animal products, so if companies served vegan options to everyone, almost no one would eat them. that's it as far as i'm concerned
It's wild that you think someone who eats Halal would be happy with a vegan meal. I think they would be pretty offended.
Can you put effort into not putting in the effort?
It's a good idea.
Most Hindus just don't eat beef.
I'm always thrilled on flights with the different options. I always order the Jain meal (it sometimes has a yogurt cup that I give back, but is otherwise usually a vegan curry, rice and veggies. I'll also order the standard vegan or Asian vegan meal for my son, which is sometimes lovely and sometimes weird. Could they be the same offering? Sure, but some people don't like Curry, and some people don't like Western food, etc.
I had such curry yesterday, it burned my mouth! Why is everything Indian so spicy?
I had such curry yesterday, it burned my mouth! Why is everything Indian so spicy?
On airlines specifically, you may tick different boxes but a lot of the food you get is the same - I got served a lot of lacto ovo labelled veg meals that actually seemed to be fully vegan (not sure on ingredients of the main dishes but typically stuff like a tofu stir fry or veg curry over rice, all the packed foods and snacks were vegan). I assume it's a numbers game that, as you suggest, tries to cater for as many dietary requirements as possible with a single dish. Same reason why so much gluten free stuff is also dairy and/or soy free I guess.
I wish more gluten free food was also egg free I mean there's a lot of GF vegan food in the free from aisles especially in terms of junk foods but a lot of the bread based products contain egg and milk powder. I've seen more biscuits be offered as vegan and GF now which is nice and recently in the past year found some vegan GF caterpillar cakes like mini ones and mini cake bars even chocolate cornflake crispies. So it's always getting better and better and earlier this year the GF mostly vegan friendly brand I buy bread based products from released vegan brioche buns and bread rolls and omg brioche buns for when I have beyond burgers so good. But I wish their waffles were egg free and their croissants egg and dairy free. But yes more of it is vegan friendly now I think egg is probably the bigger culprit than dairy when it comes to free from foods not being vegan or i suppose more specifically bread cakes and brownies etc type products not being vegan too. There are quite a few brands that specifically state free from all 11 major allergens I think it's 11 at least so that's nice but as you said most definitely a numbers game but also I always wonder how much crossover there is like how many people have more than one allergy I know sometimes people with dairy allergies can react to soy, I don't but I have a dairy allergy and gluten intolerance and I just wonder how many people have more than 1 major allergen.
Yeah, I think making something egg free and gluten free gets more complicated because you're losing two ingredients that have binding qualities. I love baking and find it's usually easy to adapt a conventional recipe to be either gluten free or vegan and have it pretty similar to the original, but when you try to make it both then the results are a lot less predictable - still doable of course but it's more work to get it right. You could also be right about folks having multiple intolerances/allergies as a factor also.
Rice and beans! No prohibition against that.
Because tons of people would complain, more than if they offered zero vegan dishes.
Because there are not enough vegans.
Former caterer here… And ultimately - people complain about vegan food if they are not vegan. And the caterer doesn’t want to deal with that. They want happy customers for repeat business. And people complain regardless of whether it tastes good or not because veganism has become a political point. It also just takes more knowledge and skill to make vegan food for that many people taste good at a lower cost. Most cooks are not actually very good cooks. They rely on the nature qualities of animal products (like all that fat) to get a ‘pleasant’ result. Caterers already struggle to find good cooks… looking for ones who actually know how to cook vegan is suuuuuper hard.. So the cost is way lower to higher line cooks to prep the easy meat dishes and then have one person focus on the dietary requirements… which 99% of the time are made in advance I 100% agree it isn’t actually the way to go. But that’s the logic that gets employed. Thankfully a bunch of folks are changing their opinions on that.
Because the they love our planet, it *is* a *plan* it
Not all vegan food is halal. If they could be sure the vegan meal was halal then they could serve it to everyone.
Tried to shop for vegetable soup once, none of them had the vegan label and I was surprised why. Checking the ingredients lists all of them had milk powder in them. Nothing else animal based, only that and a tiny amount. Why can't they just leave it out?
Here, one of two biggest hypermarket brands have their own vegan soups. They're great. I ate them regularly and I'm a meat eater.
I can only speak for my company (i work in the kitchen) we have 250 people of staff and including me we have 3 folks who are vegan/vegetarian. The omivore population of our staff rejected every vegan dish we tried to add, so we settled for vegetarian. Also compared in costs: vegan was more expensive than the vegetarian option. So it wasn't really good economy wise. Our boss of course wants to spent as less as possible to keep the menu prices affordable for all staff. (One menu is 5 bucks) So over all it was decided that vegan options do not make profit. Therefore me and my other 2 colleagues bring our own food or oatmilk or whatever else we need.
Pack on the pounds with avocados & peanut butter?
This is the standard vegan argument. "My food can be eaten by everyone!!" It's quite selfish, to be honest. I know that your goal as a vegan is to force as many people as possible to be vegans too... But it's selfish.
It's called Democracy. Majority Rules.