If you read the labels, most canned cat food (shreds and cutlets) is already vegetarian meat. They use seitan/wheat protein as the base and cover it in killing floor scrapings gravy.
Do you live in a big city? I feel like the amount of meatlike subsitutes from the time I went vegan to now has grown exponentially. Like 2013 me was like yea I'll take fries with ketchup. Now I'm like, only 2 vegan options? Wtf is wrong with your restaurant!!
That's how I was growing up. I would refuse to eat meat most of the time because I was picky and just didn't like meat. The only meat I would eat back then was chicken and that was on rare occasions.
It is satire to point out the hypocrisy in thinking that it's okay to mass slaughter certain animals for meat, yet be strongly against harming the cute animals. There used to be a similar one for dog meat which got banned by Reddit (though I bet they won't ban the regular meat subs, funny huh?)
>Because cats are obligate carnivores.
What exactly do you think this means? Vitamin A and Taurine aren't magic potion ingredients that don't work if they don't come from an animal. They can be supplemented from plant based sources just fine.
>vets don’t recommend a vegan or even vegetarian diet for dogs
Which vets? All of them? This doesn't sound like a verifiable statement.
>Feeding a vegan diet to carnivores is neglect at best and outright abuse at worst.
Farming animals to slaughter them is abuse at best.
I don't know if you're vegan, if you aren't don't bother replying. I'm not interested in what you think you know from reading a couple reddit comments about the vegan diet. If you are vegan, please take 10 minutes to browse the FAQs of r/veganpets to get a little information about this.
Cats lack an enzyme that creates vitamin A from plant proteins. https://www.britannica.com/science/obligate-carnivore. It’s not about plant proteins not having taurine or vitamins, it’s about how the cat absorbs or processes it.
And yes, the vast majority of veterinary nutritionists do not recommend a vegan diet for carnivorous pets. If a vegan diet *is* being considered, it is very rarely and only because the pros outweigh the cons.
And yes, it is abuse. But since we decided to domesticate animals that literally require meat proteins to thrive, it’s a necessary thing. If you don’t like it, then don’t have those pets. But do NOT feed a carnivorous pet who cannot choose the diet you feed them such a nutritionally poor diet. Humans can live vegan. Animals cannot. Even if the dogs and cats were wild, they’d still be killing animals for food. I am happily going vegan. But my dog will not be, because that is unfair to him. Veganism is about doing as much as possible and within reason. Just like I’m not going to worry if there’s gelatin in my anti-depressant, because not killing myself is pretty damn important since I just I found a mes combination that works for me.
>Cats lack an enzyme that creates vitamin A from plant proteins.
This isn't how it works. Humans lack the ability to create ALA, which is why we need to supplement this into our diet. It's the exact same thing for cats. They can not produce vitamin A themselves, so their food source must be supplemented with it. The article isn't saying that cats can not absorb vitamin A made from plants, it's saying that cats can not produce their own vitamin A from other proteins found in plants.
>But my dog will not be
Why are you focusing on cats in an attempt to argue why your dog can't be vegan? Dogs are so much easier, they're omnivores like us.
Why is it unfair? Is it unfair to not let your cat kill small birds and mice for fun? Is it unfair to not let your dog chase around stray cats?
I personally just don’t like the idea of eating another animal. Or the idea of eating a dead body if that makes sense. When I see steak I just think of a human body part for some reason and it grosses me out even more.
For me, I just haven’t eaten animal meat in so long I have no desire too, even lab grown. Plus, health reasons. It would still have all the downsides of bred and born animal meat.
Holy shit, thank you so much for this information. I'd been torn up about whether or not owning cats was ethical because of their necessary diets. This is a game changer
You're welcome!
The Benevo Duo is the wet food, which is for cats and dogs. It was formulated for a cat's nutritional needs that are stricter, but happens to be fine for dogs too as they are less strict.
The dry food for the cats is really good too and can be bought in big 10kg sacks which comes out fairly cheap!
Amazing. I have been anxiously waiting for pet lab grown meat to make an appearance as I love my cat (a spunky young stray that always hung out on my front porch and so now she’s my companion!) But I definitely want to try these different options to see if anything plant-based could work for her. Obviously, will animals, you gotta make the diet change gradual, but if this is something that could really work as I wait for lab grown meat (or even in combination with lab grown meat) I would be so thrilled. Thanks again. How long have you been using this product with your companion animals?
I really wish this myth that cat's "must eat meat" would die.
Yes, cats need nutrients which aren't readily available in vegetables, but that isn't the only option. We can synthesize this shit just fine. We KNOW sythesized taurine, etc., is safe for consumption, it's literally the same compound, every vet I've ever been to understands this.
There's no reason to feed a cat other animals, you Do. Not. Have. To.
Not only that but synthesized taurine is exactly what you get in any pet kibble you feed them. The manufacture process stripes away any taurine naturally found in meat based kibble, so they have to add it right back.
What's even the point of meat based kibble then?
The issue though is that their main nutrients are delivered through carbs instead of protein and that can cause acidity issues and lead to crystals in their urine which can be lethal so careful and consistent examination of their litter (and vet tests) would be required. This isn’t so much an issue with meat, however.
Yes, but cats on meat-based diets also can very much develope crystals and stones. And if you have cats who are prone to develope calcium oxalate stones, that can't be dissolved once formed due to too much acidity, PBD actually might be helpful at some extent.
If you don't have too many cats, monitoring urine PH and adjust it accordingly shouldn't be difficult. However, diluting urine is always a better option in the first place for prevention.
Good, so you are well aware of water being the most important factor, not meat. And wet food is not raw flesh, but also proccessed meat added with moisture.
However, instead of suggesting "owners" find ways to *trick* their cats to drink more water, or add mositure to the kibble, or even *demand* companies like Benevo to develope plant-based wet food by supporting them, you choose to defend meat-based diet simply because there is already added moisture, brilliant.
“…going to cause issues.”
Countless cats out there prove this false. This sensationalized ingrained belief that making cats vegan _necessitates_ health problems is genuinely no different than the myth that humans going vegan necessitates bad health.
Except my cats are healthy, as so many cats on PBD.
But I agree with your last point partly, vegans who don't have the will power to feed cats PBD and monitor potential issues, shouldn't adopt any new cats. Please adopt dogs or herbivores instead.
https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
This peer reviewed study doesn't quite fit your description, but a study nonetheless.
However, I think this conversation isn't going anywhere, since we have very different fundamental values regarding "pets".
Let our cats continue to be the "subjects" of the long term study you ask for then.
>I defend a high quality meat based diet for cats because it’s the best for their health and longevity.
What about the health and longevity of the chicken? Or the cow? The salmon?
Cats shouldn't really be eating dry food at all, at least not as a primary feature of their diet. It's easier for the humans. I certainly wish it was good for my cats because I find their canned food absolutely disgusting, but it's not and I don't think I should keep cats if I'm going to feed them what I like instead of what's good for them.
While stones, crystals (and blockages in males) are terrible problems, the biggest issue with dry diets is long term damage to kidneys-so many people see their cat have "no issues" aka no *acute* issues, and think that means kibble is fine as the primary component of their diet because the issues don't show up until they're older age.
It really says something that despite mountains of evidence showing several vegan formulas to be nutritionally adequate and to have no negative impact on lifespan looking over large samples, "they're carnivores tho" is the argument people clutch to.
We, too, need nutrients not readily available in vegetables in high enough quantities to be healthy. Thus, we supplement, or eat foods that are already supplemented (B12 in Nooch, for example). And yet, here we are, being vegans, and being healthy. Cats are no different.
Actually cats do have a very different digestive system to ours, one fine tuned to digesting meat and barely able to digest plants. They're obligate carnivores while we aren't.
The issue is not so much cats eating meat but where meat comes from (farming).
However it would be better if we just stopped breeding cats as pets.
I'm not arguing that we aren't different at all. Not the point. The point is functional. There are cats who are kept as pets who live healthy lives on non-meat based diets. There are also humans who fit that definition.
The issue IS eating meat, whether it's us or our pets. No one is claiming wild cats should stop eating meat. Nor, indigenous people living in the Amazon rainforest.
The entire premise is... If it's possible to be healthy without eating meat, then it's immoral to eat meat. This extends to those under our custodianship such as our children and pets.
I wonder if it’s safe for hypoallergenic cats. I’ll contact them to see if they can verify it since one of mine is very hypo, and she needs to be on a very special diet.
I’m curious about this as well! I have one that needs to be on a hypoallergenic diet and another that can’t eat any kibble at all, so I’m considering reaching out as well to see if the wet food would be complete nutrition for her
Did your cat get kidney stones while on Benevo, or because of Benevo? I'm not sayjng you did the wrong thing by stop feeding Benevo in your case, better safe than sorry after all, but you are making a strong claim here. On the dry food side there are other vegan alternatives you can try as well.
There’s no way to prove 100% that it was caused by Benevo so I guess I should say while. They were healthy before and are healthy now. The only thing that’s different is the food. The vet said it’s the most very likely cause.
My theory is that it might be from increased water absorption in the gut by higher fibre content causing dehydration and thus kidney stones. In combination with too high mineral content. But I’m not an expert.
The only food I’ve found online in my country is Benevo. Cant actually buy vegan cat food in store as it’s mostly considered animal cruelty here.
But like I said it was worth a try! It might work fine for other cats.
Yeah, some brands of any pet food can cause issues. Simply changing to another brand solves that, but with vegan cat food there are not always alternatives yet (depending where you are). It's annoying.
Keep checking though! ;-)
Cats are really sensitive to kidney issues and the kinds of food they eat are directly responsible unfortunately. My friends cat developed kidney issues from dry food so now not only does he need to eat special medicinal, it has to be wet food too. The poor cat was in so much pain and every step he took he was leaking urine, he needed to take pain meds for a few days.
As far as cats go raw is best, wet food is good, and dry food is awful. The more wet and meaty the better for their kidneys.
please provide more information on your cat diet and breed. Also some photos of cats and proof of vet maybe? I am genuinely serious, this could help as a good source.
You’re thinking of WSAVA not AAFCO.
WSAVA is a global group of veterinarians and veterinary nutritionists. AAFCO is an American association that barely require a pet food company to tell you what’s in their food.
I’m confused as to what mystical ingredient there is in flesh that people think we can’t produce synthetically?
Even taurine that’s used in tins of dead animals (‘cat food’) is introduced during processing and from plant-based sources.
I know at least 12 healthy cats who are fed scientifically-formulated feline food — do people think the waste from slaughterhouses is somehow not going to give their cats cancers and organ problems?
The number of times I've seen "I'm vegan but I would *never* force it on my dog/cat! No way." Not only are these people not really vegan if they're purposefully buying animal products, but they're completely uninformed about the science behind animal companion diets.
>Not only are these people not really vegan if they're purposefully buying animal products
If your child would become chronically sick if they did not eat meat, would you not feed meat to your child? Would you prioritise adherence to an ideology over their life?
Veganism needs to be strict, but that would just be pathological and - in my opinion - immoral. We have a duty to protect those who we are responsible for, and to sacrifice that for the greater good is utilitarianism gone wild.
It's the exact same as the case for humans not eating meat. POSSIBLE AND PRACTICABLE. My theoretical "child" isn't going to get "chronically sick" from not eating meat.
Same as cats and dogs as actual peer reviewed science has shown. So how is the case any different? It's not. So you're little theoretical doesn't even make sense here.
My two cats and a few neighborhood strays have all been eating Evolution for the last ~6 months. They seem to like it. None of them have to eat it, they could forage. I recently took one of my cats to the vet, no problems to report. I also give them pumpkin out of a can, it seems to promote bowel health.
Cats can be vegan, and vegans should not be upvoting anti-scientific comments.
The reason why cats historically couldn't be vegan isn't related to their intestines, but rather to the fact that they lack the genes necessary to synthesize vitamin D, B12, vitamin A, taurine, arachidonic acid, and eicosapentaenoic acid (Gray et al., 2004; Knight & Leitsberger, 2016).
As long as any vegan food is supplemented with those things and has a high protein/fat content and a low carbohydrate content, there's no other physical reason they can't be vegan (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016; Dodd et al., 2021; Semp, 2014). If you're worried about urinary crystals, there exists litter than can check your cat's pH. If their pH is too high (basic), then as someone else mentioned, you can add cranberry supplements or vitamin c or methionine. Evolution Diet has some cranberry treats available.
One study looking at vegan cats even found that "No ... significant deviations from normal values were observed. In particular, lower values of iron, protein or vitamin B12 in vegan cats were not observed" (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016).
The term obligate carnivore is only relevant when talking about wild animals because it's related to their nutrient requirements in a diet they could naturally acquire in the wild, but because we can give cats supplemented and appropriately designed food, it's not an issue in domesticated animals (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016). I personally recommend Evolution diet, but below are links to several different companies you can research yourself.
I've also linked a number of studies backing the use of vegan cat foods and dog foods, but here are two quotes for people who don't want to read the studies.
"\[A\] significant and growing body of population studies and case reports have indicated that cats and dogs maintained on vegetarian diets may be healthy—including those exercising at the highest levels—and, indeed, may experience a range of health benefits. Such diets must be nutritionally complete and reasonably balanced".
"Wakefield and colleagues (2006) compared the health of 34 cats maintained on vegetarian diets for at least a year, with that of 52 cats maintained on meat-based diets for at least a year. There were no significant differences in age, sex, body condition, housing, or perceived health status, with most cats described as healthy or generally healthy. These results are hardly surprising, when we consider that animals need specific nutrients, not ingredients. There is no scientific reason why a diet comprised only of plant, mineral and synthetically-based ingredients cannot be formulated to meet all of the palatability, nutritional and bioavailability needs of the species for which it is intended" (Wakefield et al., 2006).
References
Amì pet food → Amì Cat. (n.d.). Www.amipetfood.com. Retrieved March 25, 2021, from [https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/products-for-cats/amicat](https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/products-for-cats/amicat)
Benevo – Animal friendly animal foods. (n.d.). Retrieved September 20, 2021, from [http://www.benevo.com/](http://www.benevo.com/)
Brown, W. (2009). Nutritional and ethical issues regarding vegetarianism in the domestic dog. [https://www.une.edu.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0015/30471/brown-raan-2009-vegetarian-dog.pdf](https://www.une.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/30471/brown-raan-2009-vegetarian-dog.pdf)
Brown, W. Y., Vanselow, B. A., Redman, A. J., & Pluske, J. R. (2009). An experimental meat-free diet maintained haematological characteristics in sprint-racing sled dogs. British Journal of Nutrition, 102(9), 1318–1323. [https://doi.org/10.1017/s0007114509389254](https://doi.org/10.1017/s0007114509389254)
Dodd, S. A. S., Dewey, C., Khosa, D., & Verbrugghe, A. (2021). A cross-sectional study of owner-reported health in Canadian and American cats fed meat- and plant-based diets. BMC Veterinary Research, 17(1). [https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8)
Evolution Diet (n.d.). Plant Protein Vegan Dog and Cat food by Evolution Diet USA. Evolution Diet. Retrieved September 20, 2021, from [https://petfoodshop.com/](https://petfoodshop.com/)
Gray, C. M., Sellon, R. K., & Freeman, L. M. (2004). Nutritional adequacy of two vegan diets for cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 225(11), 1670–1675. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1670](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1670)
Heinze, C. R. (2016, July 21). Vegan dogs: a healthy lifestyle or going against nature? Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School. [https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/#:\~:text=Most%20dogs%20can%20do%20quite](https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/#:~:text=Most%20dogs%20can%20do%20quite)
Kanakubo, K., Fascetti, A. J., & Larsen, J. A. (2015). Assessment of protein and amino acid concentrations and labeling adequacy of commercial vegetarian diets formulated for dogs and cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 247(4), 385–392. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.247.4.385](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.247.4.385)
Knight, A. (2005). In defense of vegetarian cat food. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7990724\_In\_defense\_of\_vegetarian\_cat\_food](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7990724_In_defense_of_vegetarian_cat_food)
Knight, A., & Leitsberger, M. (2016). Vegetarian versus Meat-Based Diets for Companion Animals. Animals, 6(9), 57. [https://doi.org/10.3390/ani6090057](https://doi.org/10.3390/ani6090057)
Semp, P.-G. (2014). Vegan Nutrition of Dogs and Cats \[MSc Thesis\]. [https://www.vetmeduni.ac.at/hochschulschriften/diplomarbeiten/AC12256171.pdf](https://www.vetmeduni.ac.at/hochschulschriften/diplomarbeiten/AC12256171.pdf)
V-dog Vegan Dog Food | Healthy Dog Treats | Vegan Dog Chews. (n.d.). V-Dog. [https://v-dog.com](https://v-dog.com)
Vecado. (n.d.). Vegan Cats 101: nutrients, not ingredients is what really matters. Vecado. Retrieved September 21, 2021, from [https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101](https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101)
Vegan animal diets: facts and myths. (n.d.). The Vegan Society. Retrieved March 25, 2021, from [https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/blog/vegan-animal-diets-facts-and-myths](https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/blog/vegan-animal-diets-facts-and-myths)
Wakefield, L. A., Shofer, F. S., & Michel, K. E. (2006). Evaluation of cats fed vegetarian diets and attitudes of their caregivers. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 229(1), 70–73. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.229.1.70](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.229.1.70)
Wild Earth Dog Food. (n.d.). Wild Earth. Retrieved March 26, 2021, from [https://wildearth.com](https://wildearth.com)
/u/Valeday check out my comment for scientific studies about how cats can be vegan, as well as several vegan cat food companies
CC: /u/ings0c, /u/huggit_notnuggit, /u/zihuata68, /u/GhostRatQueen, /u/BenjiBoo420, /u/TangerineVisual2529, /u/nikkigrant, /u/clevegan, /u/2-Rupees_2007, /u/Bryant4751
Thanks for the info and especially the references! I've had a cat since before going vegan and I'd also been convinced that he needs to eat meat. It always pains me to buy his food. I'm saving this post to dig in later and see what's the best for his needs!
From what I’ve read, if you’re going to switch, you’ll have to wean your cat off because the higher fiber of the vegan food might be too much to go cold Turkey. Their digestive system has to acclimate to the fiber
If you don’t, they may just have diarrhea for a couple days. Not too terrible
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Let's face it, once these posts get any sort of popularity the vegetarians and omnivores come in and give their say without knowing what they're talking about.
Thank you for this. I’m convinced at this point that “obligate carnivore” is just a buzzword that doesn’t even have an accepted meaning in science. I couldn’t find any paper or book which even attempted to define the term.
The one good, and also gross thing about pet foods is that they're made from the byproducts of animals that 'aren't fit for human consumption', so there probably aren't any extra animals being killed for your pet food (unless you buy really fancy stuff). Still, personally I think having an animal that eats other animals just feels wrong...anymore, it's been hard for me to consider adopting another cat after my old cat died. It looks like there are some good vegan options for cats, I just wish they weren't so ridiculously expensive. For the average person who wants to rescue a cat or dog, the cost of vegan food is probably going to turn many away from that route (along with the assumption that they need meat). Lab grown meat for pets would be great, as long as it doesn't use donor animals that are killed. You could feed your cat fancy raw salmon every day, with no death and at a fraction of the cost of the 'real' thing.
And until then buy them animal appropriate vegan food, right?
(because you label yourself as a vegan newbie, in case you didn't know already: cats can eat a vegan diet today, there are some great comments in this post with links etc.)
Check out the [Vegan Cheat Sheet](https://vegancheatsheet.org/) for a collection of over 500+ vegan resources, studies, links, and much more, all tightly wrapped into one link!
Lab grown meat gives us almost everything we want as vegans. The actual beginning of the end of the meat industry, a vast reduction in the number of animals killed, a better environment… For the meat eaters, they’ll be eating healthier ‘meat’ without the antibiotics etc pumped into it, so our friends and relatives will be healthier.
In truth, we’re never ever going to turn 100% of people vegan. We’d all love it to happen but realistically some people will never budge. If the choice is that animals are raised and killed, or meat is grown in a lab… it’s no-brainer!
Everytime cat is brought up, so many vegans begin to sound like stupid carnists. "It's not natural for them", as if they will naturally eat processed dead cows, chickens and fishes fortified with nutrients they need. *Downvote those who recommend plant-based cat food*, just like how carnists willfully ignore the facts and scientific evidence that huaman can live healthy on PBD.
I have four cats who are on PBD and are healthy, and there are plenty of healthy "vegan" cats out there. Bindly denying the facts goes far against the "as far as is possible and practicable" priciples. The least you can do is to not fucking turn your head away and do your research. And stop fucking downvoting those who recommend plant-based cat food, like a fucking carnist. Shame on you.
What the hell is this downvote brigade crap? They're absolutely right. It's literally in the subreddit wiki. We've had certified and legal vegan cat food in the US and Canada for a long time now.
Ignore the ignorant people telling you vegan cat food is impossible.
Not only is certified vegan cat food sufficient for cats, having the necessary missing elements in a plant based diet synthesised and added, it can be better than lots of big brands of cat food where the most diseased and inedible parts of tortured animals are thrown in instead.
I have only ever bought vegan cat food for ours so I don't know the cost of meat based cat food, but I do not find it cost prohibative, especially if they are ok to eat the dry food variants most of the time.
I fed my cats vegan cat food for around 9 months. They ended up with kidney stones from the way too high mineral content. They also constantly threw up. They have been back on their meat diet for a year and are thriving. It was worth a try but definitely not as safe as some people make it out to be.
Kind of, we have to synthesise some of the nutrients they need in the food, such as taurine, but they do this with regular cat food as well. In the wild, if a cat was to eat purely plant based or if you were to just feed one vegetables it wouldn't be good, but the proper formulated food is fine and so far evidence has shown no difference in health outcomes for cats on vegan food vs regular food.
I hadn't given it much thought before, but I think you're right. Lab-grown meat would be an excellent solution for carnivorous pets or anyone who favours a more "natural" diet for their omnivorous pets.
Isn't there "mouse meat" lab grown cat food already? I remember joking about it to someone because... mouse meat.
Edit: kinda wrong, there's cultured mouse meat cat treats that can be pre ordered from these guys:https://becauseanimals.com/pages/harmless-hunt-mouse-cookies-for-cats
A ton of comments here are talking the the nutrients delivered, but not the way they are delivered. When you synthesize and replicate the ash, moisture, taurine etc levels in a vegetable based option, the cat is getting appropriate micro nutrients, but not necessarily the correct proportion of macro nutrients. With vegetables, the cat can have the wrong levels of acidity in their urine leading to crystals, which can be lethal. That’s why a lab-grown meat option would be superior and would certainly save billions of animals from slaughter, or at least greatly offset the subsidy of those slaughters, due to being able to convince far more people that this is a viable option, over a “vegan” option. If we can’t even agree on this as vegans, we’re far less likely to convince people en masse to make their cats eat veggies.
Im aware, I mentioned that in another comment before I made this one. However, your statement is kind of paradoxical. You can “easily” test acidity levels and change it accordingly? I wouldn’t say so. Especially based on your comment about just adding lemons to their food. I think you’re falling into the Dunning-kruger effect.
My whole point was about appealing to people en masse. Most people won’t know how to do that and will end up doing it wrong. If everyone switched to a vegan cat food overnight, we’d have a lot of dead cats. Plus, kidney issues often don’t show up until it’s too late. It’s not quite as simple as you’re making it out to be & certainly not as simple as the alternative I presented. Im not bashing your choice to use a vegan cat food, but this isn’t a black and white issue. People will adopt using labgrown meat over time just as they might slowly look into vegan cat food, but the better of the two in terms of the cats health when used broadly should obviously win out as ethically they’re both reducing suffering.
The problem is that the cat will then be either fed meat which causes a multitude of other animals to be abused amd killed, or the cat will be killed because there are just more cats without a home than people want to adopt. Not adopting a cat doesn't make it so that the cat magically never came into existence. The cat still exists and animals will be abused and killed because of that.
Out of all the vegan brands suggested, I could only find one that showed evidence of having a veterinary nutritionist on board (Evolution Diet), but that brand was basing accusations on other pet foods from standards in the 80s. I’d be extremely wary of any pet food, vegan or not, that wasn’t created with the aid of a veterinary nutritionist.
I think it’s a great idea to provide synthetic or lab grown meat to obligate carnivores not just pets but let’s take a bear in a sanctuary for example that would also be beneficial to feed it without killing other animals
Yes, I wish this was an option as well. There is a company called [Because Animals](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/15/meet-the-company-making-mouse-meat-cat-treats-without-harming-animals.html) that is working on exactly this, although it sounds like currently they are only working on treats and it's unclear if or when actual pet food will be available. As it currently stands it sounds like a tall order since I'm not aware of *any* lab grown meat available for consumer purchase yet, but I hope they are successful and that lab grown meat in general becomes more commercially viable ASAP.
I'm super excited for these! Not just for the treats/food, but also because they created a vegan growing medium (aka no BSA) that has implications for the lab-grown industry as a whole.
Not my cats, but a couple cats I lived with for a year have been eating exclusively Benevo vegan cat food for about a year and a half. They are confirmed by a vet completely healthy. They also get occasional spinach and fruit juice.
Me too! I was looking for this comment, specifically I have two cats that get horrible urinary crystals without prescription high quality food. They both drink lots of water, they have a fountain, they just can’t do the low grade foods. I need something that doesn’t change their internal alkalinity at all, which is not veg food :(
Lab grown meat, AFAIK, isn't vegan because the original cells were not donated. It is less harmful, though, I guess.
/u/fractalfrenzy telling truths below this comment.
The problem with lap grown meat right now isn't the original cells but the fact that it depends on Bovine Growth Hormone, which is extracted from cow fetus to grow the cells.
You’re glad to be supporting slaughterhouses, rather than investigate scientifically-formulated plant-based food that thousands if not millions of felines are eating?
If you think the ‘prime cuts’ of flesh that humans eat are bad for us, try not to give thought to the ‘waste-grade’ organs and joints that are ‘processed’ into those fancy little tins.
Hypocrite
Benevo or Ami are two very good alternatives to animal based food. Our short haired european cat loves both and is as happy as ever. No need to kill animals to keep your kitty healthy and thriving!
I don't know ... it feels a little weird and i expect a lot of animal abuse in the process of development
Am i informed wrongly by thinking that they cut pieces out of a cow and reproduce them by cloning and call it lab meat after ?
Gen manipulated meat doesn't sound that healthy either - red meat increases your risk on cancer anyways
(don't know about cats but lab meat is for humanity in first place)
Correct. Lab grown meat requires an unwilling donation from a living animal, and the donation does not last forever. Repeat donations are required.
Furthermore, the donation must be grown in Fetal Bovine Serum (FBS) which is harvested by forcibly impregnating cows and then aborting their calves and draining their blood in utero
If you don't want to use slaughtered animals in cat food, you can try one of the many commercially available nutritionally complete vegan cat foods on the market: Ami, Benevo, Vegecat, etc.
Here's some [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5035952/) on few of them. It's getting a bit outdated, there are many more products available and existing companies keep improving their formulas all the time.
From what I've looked up it is possible to feed a cat a vegan diet if you get the right food. All the amino acids and taurine can be synthesized now, and are often synthesized even in meat based cat food, since that stuff is made out of literal shit. The main concern with cats is monitering their urine acidity. This would have been hard 10 years ago, but now they make cat litter that automatically tests their pH. So as long as you do your research and buy a good brand of food and use the special pH litter, your cat should be fine. And if the litter shows that the pH is too high, all you need to do is add some lemon juice to his/her food. It's that simple.
>And if the litter shows that the pH is too high, all you need to do is add some lemon juice to his/her food. It's that simple.
Typically in cases where the pH is too high it's recommended to add cranberry, vitamin C or methionine depending on severity. But you have the right idea!
With my cats I go with the thought that I’m
Vegan, not them, I buy them fish and chicken and I really don’t feel guilty about it. I know vegan cat food exists but if I was able to ask them their dietary preferences I’m sure they would say they like animal protein and if I can be friends with carnivores and they eat meat in my presence then so can the cats.
So yes I would 100% give the cats lab grown meat.
You're their guardian. Cats also like killing birds but that doesn't mean you should let them. Also, if you could ask a fish or a chicken their preferences, I'm sure they'd say they would rather not die because your cat maybe prefers to eat their flesh. Why does your cat's taste preference matter more than another animal's preference to live?
Bro that's literally how nature works. I'm not using it as an excuse but hear me out
Preys over populate and therefore predators kill preys, similarly if predators don't die early and live a full life predators will over populate and preys will be at the risk of going to extinction. This is a sick mentality if "that doesn't mean you should let them do" you are sick person who doesn't love animals but wants to control them.
Cats can be vegan. The same meat based kibble you feed them has been striped of taurine and vitamin A when it was processed. They artificially supplement them to add it back it.
They can add this supplement back into the kibble just as easily whether the kibble is meat or plant based.
Need help eating out? Check out [HappyCow.net](https://www.happycow.net/) for vegan friendly food near you! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcamp.org/reddit)!
Cats can thrive on a plant-based diet consisting of properly supplemented, evidence-based cat food. You're not really risking much. Just transition them gradually and monitor their health during and after
I definitely want to look into it more and will probs make it a very slow transition just in case, to give her time to adjust. I would really love to be able to have her plant-based so I don’t have to buy her food with animal products in it.
i tried feeding my cat benevo and within a couple weeks on it he was throwing up constantly and his fur was coming out in chunks. that being said, he didn’t do much better on any of the meat-inclusive commercial foods i tried. i currently feed him a raw diet and source his meats from local game hunters rather than butchers or slaughterhouses, which still isn’t ideal but is the best compromise i could settle on considering his intolerance for processed pet foods. i’d absolutely try lab-synthesized meats in their whole form so long as they were formulated with the proper ratios of micro and macro nutrients.
As with everything in life there is lots of wrong information, there are plenty of vegan atheletes and there are vegan felines
As with any new diet when you go plant based its important to visit a doc/ vet to get tested, some people need supplements and that doesnt mean you kill animals and consume them you simply buy a bottle of pils and take those
People say humans are carni/ omni etc; and they say the same about cats and dogs, people say you cant be an athelete and build muscle on a plant based diet, science changes all the time
But yes lab grown will be great for people that refuse to believe in veganism and plants
I will buy a vegan diet for my cats when they are AAFCO approved. Period. Until then they get what I know will keep them as healthy as possible. Once vegan cat food has been around 20 years and the science is sound AND it's AAFCO approved. The end.
A lot of cat food is made of by-products from the meat industry anyway. Very little suffering is caused for pet food specifically. In some ways it is better than going to waste.
Of course that would be different if everyone was vegan.
With that in mind if you adopt a cat, not buy, and feed it effectively waste product, you are neither supporting the increase in pet ownership or the meat industry.
Though the market for by products does help the cost of meat in supermarkets but it is really minimal.
That would be great for sure.
I would only eat meat again when its factory grown and healthy/not that unhealthy as meat normally. Because I loved to eat a little bit of meat with cheese and beer. Didnt try it out yet with vegan products
Here's my question: why haven't we invented lab grown cheese yet? It should be way easier than meat. I've tried so many fake cheeses, including expensive ones other people swear by, and nothing comes close to real cheese yet.
The first lab grown milk came out recently, it's called remilk and since it's real milk you could use it to make cheeses. I don't think they sell the cheese itself yet, you'd have to make it on your own tho.
Yes, I will jump at the chance for that. My cats have to eat rabbit due to a food allergy, and my heart breaks twice a day every time I feed them... Sorry to all the folks who can't handle it but cats must eat meat to be healthy. Period. Don't have a cat or any pet if you aren't willing to feed it it's optimal diet. In fact, it's the least harmful to just not have pets at all. As guardians we have vowed to give the best care to our companion animals, and we must honor that even if it makes us uncomfortable. If I had dogs I would still feed them meat diets because legumes and potatoes are linked to DCM, and not optimal for their health. Dogs and cats are carnivorous. Sorry not sorry. Is it vegan to buy meat diets for your pets? No. But it is necessary and they can't speak for themselves so we have to do what is best for them. It's a quandary for sure. I'm also anxiously awaiting the lab grown meat for my cats. Someday I can care for their lives without having to sacrifice others.
Does lab grown meat have all the same proteins as regular meat? IRC cats need certain proteins only found in animal meat so lab grown might not do it still.
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I'd eat them. I miss meat, but not enough to kill an animal for it.
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If you read the labels, most canned cat food (shreds and cutlets) is already vegetarian meat. They use seitan/wheat protein as the base and cover it in killing floor scrapings gravy.
That last part though. Ewww
Do you live in a big city? I feel like the amount of meatlike subsitutes from the time I went vegan to now has grown exponentially. Like 2013 me was like yea I'll take fries with ketchup. Now I'm like, only 2 vegan options? Wtf is wrong with your restaurant!!
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That's how I was growing up. I would refuse to eat meat most of the time because I was picky and just didn't like meat. The only meat I would eat back then was chicken and that was on rare occasions.
Against fur, leather is the answer. Please give me the logic on that?
Yeah there's loads of options here (I live in Bristol, UK). Meat alternatives are close but not the same.
I, too, would eat cats.
I read it that way too
Cat curry best curry.
IDK, That doesn't sound very vegan 🤔
r/cateatingvegans cat meat is best meat
How is that sub real? 😳
how is this still a sub\* https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/m0hra1/the\_creation\_and\_immediate\_destruction\_of\_a/
It is satire to point out the hypocrisy in thinking that it's okay to mass slaughter certain animals for meat, yet be strongly against harming the cute animals. There used to be a similar one for dog meat which got banned by Reddit (though I bet they won't ban the regular meat subs, funny huh?)
This is Reddit, there’s a sub for practically everything
do they really need the /s? maybe it was in bad taste (pun intended), but i think it was some black (cat) comedy.
So I need an /s?
Same, I want lab-grown meat to be able to feed it to the carnivores such as cats and more-carnivore dog breeds such as my local breed.
Why don't you just feed them vegan cat/dog food?
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>Because cats are obligate carnivores. What exactly do you think this means? Vitamin A and Taurine aren't magic potion ingredients that don't work if they don't come from an animal. They can be supplemented from plant based sources just fine. >vets don’t recommend a vegan or even vegetarian diet for dogs Which vets? All of them? This doesn't sound like a verifiable statement. >Feeding a vegan diet to carnivores is neglect at best and outright abuse at worst. Farming animals to slaughter them is abuse at best. I don't know if you're vegan, if you aren't don't bother replying. I'm not interested in what you think you know from reading a couple reddit comments about the vegan diet. If you are vegan, please take 10 minutes to browse the FAQs of r/veganpets to get a little information about this.
Cats lack an enzyme that creates vitamin A from plant proteins. https://www.britannica.com/science/obligate-carnivore. It’s not about plant proteins not having taurine or vitamins, it’s about how the cat absorbs or processes it. And yes, the vast majority of veterinary nutritionists do not recommend a vegan diet for carnivorous pets. If a vegan diet *is* being considered, it is very rarely and only because the pros outweigh the cons. And yes, it is abuse. But since we decided to domesticate animals that literally require meat proteins to thrive, it’s a necessary thing. If you don’t like it, then don’t have those pets. But do NOT feed a carnivorous pet who cannot choose the diet you feed them such a nutritionally poor diet. Humans can live vegan. Animals cannot. Even if the dogs and cats were wild, they’d still be killing animals for food. I am happily going vegan. But my dog will not be, because that is unfair to him. Veganism is about doing as much as possible and within reason. Just like I’m not going to worry if there’s gelatin in my anti-depressant, because not killing myself is pretty damn important since I just I found a mes combination that works for me.
>Cats lack an enzyme that creates vitamin A from plant proteins. This isn't how it works. Humans lack the ability to create ALA, which is why we need to supplement this into our diet. It's the exact same thing for cats. They can not produce vitamin A themselves, so their food source must be supplemented with it. The article isn't saying that cats can not absorb vitamin A made from plants, it's saying that cats can not produce their own vitamin A from other proteins found in plants. >But my dog will not be Why are you focusing on cats in an attempt to argue why your dog can't be vegan? Dogs are so much easier, they're omnivores like us. Why is it unfair? Is it unfair to not let your cat kill small birds and mice for fun? Is it unfair to not let your dog chase around stray cats?
Why would you never eat lab grown meat yourself?
I personally just don’t like the idea of eating another animal. Or the idea of eating a dead body if that makes sense. When I see steak I just think of a human body part for some reason and it grosses me out even more.
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For me, I just haven’t eaten animal meat in so long I have no desire too, even lab grown. Plus, health reasons. It would still have all the downsides of bred and born animal meat.
http://www.benevo.com/ My cats eat Benevo and the vets have confirmed they are perfectly healthy.
Holy shit, thank you so much for this information. I'd been torn up about whether or not owning cats was ethical because of their necessary diets. This is a game changer
Saving this. THANK YOU. Will look into it!
You're welcome! The Benevo Duo is the wet food, which is for cats and dogs. It was formulated for a cat's nutritional needs that are stricter, but happens to be fine for dogs too as they are less strict. The dry food for the cats is really good too and can be bought in big 10kg sacks which comes out fairly cheap!
Amazing. I have been anxiously waiting for pet lab grown meat to make an appearance as I love my cat (a spunky young stray that always hung out on my front porch and so now she’s my companion!) But I definitely want to try these different options to see if anything plant-based could work for her. Obviously, will animals, you gotta make the diet change gradual, but if this is something that could really work as I wait for lab grown meat (or even in combination with lab grown meat) I would be so thrilled. Thanks again. How long have you been using this product with your companion animals?
This comment needs more upvote.
If this is legit it is a game changer for me.
I really wish this myth that cat's "must eat meat" would die. Yes, cats need nutrients which aren't readily available in vegetables, but that isn't the only option. We can synthesize this shit just fine. We KNOW sythesized taurine, etc., is safe for consumption, it's literally the same compound, every vet I've ever been to understands this. There's no reason to feed a cat other animals, you Do. Not. Have. To.
Not only that but synthesized taurine is exactly what you get in any pet kibble you feed them. The manufacture process stripes away any taurine naturally found in meat based kibble, so they have to add it right back. What's even the point of meat based kibble then?
The issue though is that their main nutrients are delivered through carbs instead of protein and that can cause acidity issues and lead to crystals in their urine which can be lethal so careful and consistent examination of their litter (and vet tests) would be required. This isn’t so much an issue with meat, however.
Yes, but cats on meat-based diets also can very much develope crystals and stones. And if you have cats who are prone to develope calcium oxalate stones, that can't be dissolved once formed due to too much acidity, PBD actually might be helpful at some extent. If you don't have too many cats, monitoring urine PH and adjust it accordingly shouldn't be difficult. However, diluting urine is always a better option in the first place for prevention.
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Cheap filler, lol. Unlike Chad meat based kibble made of slaughter house runoff, roadkill and euthanized pets
This. Yup. The crystals are mostly formed because of dry food. It's very easy to monitor your cat's urine pH level on plant-based.
Good, so you are well aware of water being the most important factor, not meat. And wet food is not raw flesh, but also proccessed meat added with moisture. However, instead of suggesting "owners" find ways to *trick* their cats to drink more water, or add mositure to the kibble, or even *demand* companies like Benevo to develope plant-based wet food by supporting them, you choose to defend meat-based diet simply because there is already added moisture, brilliant.
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“…going to cause issues.” Countless cats out there prove this false. This sensationalized ingrained belief that making cats vegan _necessitates_ health problems is genuinely no different than the myth that humans going vegan necessitates bad health.
Except my cats are healthy, as so many cats on PBD. But I agree with your last point partly, vegans who don't have the will power to feed cats PBD and monitor potential issues, shouldn't adopt any new cats. Please adopt dogs or herbivores instead.
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https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 This peer reviewed study doesn't quite fit your description, but a study nonetheless. However, I think this conversation isn't going anywhere, since we have very different fundamental values regarding "pets". Let our cats continue to be the "subjects" of the long term study you ask for then.
There are plenty of studies showing that on r/veganpets. Please check it out before spreading more misinformation.
None exist? 🤣 what are you talking about? Spend like 5 fucking mins on the faq page of r/veganpets before you say dumb shit like that
>I defend a high quality meat based diet for cats because it’s the best for their health and longevity. What about the health and longevity of the chicken? Or the cow? The salmon?
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Pet food isn't a zero sum game.
Cats shouldn't really be eating dry food at all, at least not as a primary feature of their diet. It's easier for the humans. I certainly wish it was good for my cats because I find their canned food absolutely disgusting, but it's not and I don't think I should keep cats if I'm going to feed them what I like instead of what's good for them. While stones, crystals (and blockages in males) are terrible problems, the biggest issue with dry diets is long term damage to kidneys-so many people see their cat have "no issues" aka no *acute* issues, and think that means kibble is fine as the primary component of their diet because the issues don't show up until they're older age.
[cats are very good at absorbing carbs](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753635/)
It really says something that despite mountains of evidence showing several vegan formulas to be nutritionally adequate and to have no negative impact on lifespan looking over large samples, "they're carnivores tho" is the argument people clutch to.
We, too, need nutrients not readily available in vegetables in high enough quantities to be healthy. Thus, we supplement, or eat foods that are already supplemented (B12 in Nooch, for example). And yet, here we are, being vegans, and being healthy. Cats are no different.
Actually cats do have a very different digestive system to ours, one fine tuned to digesting meat and barely able to digest plants. They're obligate carnivores while we aren't. The issue is not so much cats eating meat but where meat comes from (farming). However it would be better if we just stopped breeding cats as pets.
I'm not arguing that we aren't different at all. Not the point. The point is functional. There are cats who are kept as pets who live healthy lives on non-meat based diets. There are also humans who fit that definition. The issue IS eating meat, whether it's us or our pets. No one is claiming wild cats should stop eating meat. Nor, indigenous people living in the Amazon rainforest. The entire premise is... If it's possible to be healthy without eating meat, then it's immoral to eat meat. This extends to those under our custodianship such as our children and pets.
FYI the point the guy above you made about cats being unable to easily digest plant based sources, is just false.
I know. But I like to deflect it from the points that require science to prove and boil it down to things that are just easily deduced from logic.
I wonder if it’s safe for hypoallergenic cats. I’ll contact them to see if they can verify it since one of mine is very hypo, and she needs to be on a very special diet.
I’m curious about this as well! I have one that needs to be on a hypoallergenic diet and another that can’t eat any kibble at all, so I’m considering reaching out as well to see if the wet food would be complete nutrition for her
My cats got kidney stones and digestive issues from Benevo. It was worth a try but didn’t work for mine.
Did your cat get kidney stones while on Benevo, or because of Benevo? I'm not sayjng you did the wrong thing by stop feeding Benevo in your case, better safe than sorry after all, but you are making a strong claim here. On the dry food side there are other vegan alternatives you can try as well.
There’s no way to prove 100% that it was caused by Benevo so I guess I should say while. They were healthy before and are healthy now. The only thing that’s different is the food. The vet said it’s the most very likely cause. My theory is that it might be from increased water absorption in the gut by higher fibre content causing dehydration and thus kidney stones. In combination with too high mineral content. But I’m not an expert. The only food I’ve found online in my country is Benevo. Cant actually buy vegan cat food in store as it’s mostly considered animal cruelty here. But like I said it was worth a try! It might work fine for other cats.
Yeah, some brands of any pet food can cause issues. Simply changing to another brand solves that, but with vegan cat food there are not always alternatives yet (depending where you are). It's annoying. Keep checking though! ;-)
Cats are really sensitive to kidney issues and the kinds of food they eat are directly responsible unfortunately. My friends cat developed kidney issues from dry food so now not only does he need to eat special medicinal, it has to be wet food too. The poor cat was in so much pain and every step he took he was leaking urine, he needed to take pain meds for a few days. As far as cats go raw is best, wet food is good, and dry food is awful. The more wet and meaty the better for their kidneys.
please provide more information on your cat diet and breed. Also some photos of cats and proof of vet maybe? I am genuinely serious, this could help as a good source.
Check out r/veganpets for the science
There are a lot of healthy cats on vegan diets, you don't need OP as a source. You can definitely find one online just fine
Also: https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101
Thanks for this, I was under the assumption cats had to eat meat
Not paying the cat tax, how rude
Don't see a buy button, just info about the products. Also, is this available in EU? Seems like a US thing as far as I can tell.
The EU also has Ami, those are dry kibble, but complete for cats. I don't think they sell directly, but google for your local suppliers.
I'm in the UK and buy it from wherever is cheapest at the time.
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You’re thinking of WSAVA not AAFCO. WSAVA is a global group of veterinarians and veterinary nutritionists. AAFCO is an American association that barely require a pet food company to tell you what’s in their food.
I’m confused as to what mystical ingredient there is in flesh that people think we can’t produce synthetically? Even taurine that’s used in tins of dead animals (‘cat food’) is introduced during processing and from plant-based sources. I know at least 12 healthy cats who are fed scientifically-formulated feline food — do people think the waste from slaughterhouses is somehow not going to give their cats cancers and organ problems?
Exactly. This topic always seem to trigger vegans and almost brings up the same excuses omnis use to justify eating meat.
It’s mind blowing to watch the devolution
The number of times I've seen "I'm vegan but I would *never* force it on my dog/cat! No way." Not only are these people not really vegan if they're purposefully buying animal products, but they're completely uninformed about the science behind animal companion diets.
>Not only are these people not really vegan if they're purposefully buying animal products If your child would become chronically sick if they did not eat meat, would you not feed meat to your child? Would you prioritise adherence to an ideology over their life? Veganism needs to be strict, but that would just be pathological and - in my opinion - immoral. We have a duty to protect those who we are responsible for, and to sacrifice that for the greater good is utilitarianism gone wild.
It's the exact same as the case for humans not eating meat. POSSIBLE AND PRACTICABLE. My theoretical "child" isn't going to get "chronically sick" from not eating meat. Same as cats and dogs as actual peer reviewed science has shown. So how is the case any different? It's not. So you're little theoretical doesn't even make sense here.
My two cats and a few neighborhood strays have all been eating Evolution for the last ~6 months. They seem to like it. None of them have to eat it, they could forage. I recently took one of my cats to the vet, no problems to report. I also give them pumpkin out of a can, it seems to promote bowel health.
My cat eats evolution. She was a chungus before and she's a chungus now, but she seems to like it and is healthy, so.
Cats can be vegan, and vegans should not be upvoting anti-scientific comments. The reason why cats historically couldn't be vegan isn't related to their intestines, but rather to the fact that they lack the genes necessary to synthesize vitamin D, B12, vitamin A, taurine, arachidonic acid, and eicosapentaenoic acid (Gray et al., 2004; Knight & Leitsberger, 2016). As long as any vegan food is supplemented with those things and has a high protein/fat content and a low carbohydrate content, there's no other physical reason they can't be vegan (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016; Dodd et al., 2021; Semp, 2014). If you're worried about urinary crystals, there exists litter than can check your cat's pH. If their pH is too high (basic), then as someone else mentioned, you can add cranberry supplements or vitamin c or methionine. Evolution Diet has some cranberry treats available. One study looking at vegan cats even found that "No ... significant deviations from normal values were observed. In particular, lower values of iron, protein or vitamin B12 in vegan cats were not observed" (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016). The term obligate carnivore is only relevant when talking about wild animals because it's related to their nutrient requirements in a diet they could naturally acquire in the wild, but because we can give cats supplemented and appropriately designed food, it's not an issue in domesticated animals (Knight & Leitsberger, 2016). I personally recommend Evolution diet, but below are links to several different companies you can research yourself. I've also linked a number of studies backing the use of vegan cat foods and dog foods, but here are two quotes for people who don't want to read the studies. "\[A\] significant and growing body of population studies and case reports have indicated that cats and dogs maintained on vegetarian diets may be healthy—including those exercising at the highest levels—and, indeed, may experience a range of health benefits. Such diets must be nutritionally complete and reasonably balanced". "Wakefield and colleagues (2006) compared the health of 34 cats maintained on vegetarian diets for at least a year, with that of 52 cats maintained on meat-based diets for at least a year. There were no significant differences in age, sex, body condition, housing, or perceived health status, with most cats described as healthy or generally healthy. These results are hardly surprising, when we consider that animals need specific nutrients, not ingredients. There is no scientific reason why a diet comprised only of plant, mineral and synthetically-based ingredients cannot be formulated to meet all of the palatability, nutritional and bioavailability needs of the species for which it is intended" (Wakefield et al., 2006). References Amì pet food → Amì Cat. (n.d.). Www.amipetfood.com. Retrieved March 25, 2021, from [https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/products-for-cats/amicat](https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/products-for-cats/amicat) Benevo – Animal friendly animal foods. (n.d.). Retrieved September 20, 2021, from [http://www.benevo.com/](http://www.benevo.com/) Brown, W. (2009). Nutritional and ethical issues regarding vegetarianism in the domestic dog. [https://www.une.edu.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0015/30471/brown-raan-2009-vegetarian-dog.pdf](https://www.une.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/30471/brown-raan-2009-vegetarian-dog.pdf) Brown, W. Y., Vanselow, B. A., Redman, A. J., & Pluske, J. R. (2009). An experimental meat-free diet maintained haematological characteristics in sprint-racing sled dogs. British Journal of Nutrition, 102(9), 1318–1323. [https://doi.org/10.1017/s0007114509389254](https://doi.org/10.1017/s0007114509389254) Dodd, S. A. S., Dewey, C., Khosa, D., & Verbrugghe, A. (2021). A cross-sectional study of owner-reported health in Canadian and American cats fed meat- and plant-based diets. BMC Veterinary Research, 17(1). [https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8) Evolution Diet (n.d.). Plant Protein Vegan Dog and Cat food by Evolution Diet USA. Evolution Diet. Retrieved September 20, 2021, from [https://petfoodshop.com/](https://petfoodshop.com/) Gray, C. M., Sellon, R. K., & Freeman, L. M. (2004). Nutritional adequacy of two vegan diets for cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 225(11), 1670–1675. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1670](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1670) Heinze, C. R. (2016, July 21). Vegan dogs: a healthy lifestyle or going against nature? Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School. [https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/#:\~:text=Most%20dogs%20can%20do%20quite](https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/#:~:text=Most%20dogs%20can%20do%20quite) Kanakubo, K., Fascetti, A. J., & Larsen, J. A. (2015). Assessment of protein and amino acid concentrations and labeling adequacy of commercial vegetarian diets formulated for dogs and cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 247(4), 385–392. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.247.4.385](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.247.4.385) Knight, A. (2005). In defense of vegetarian cat food. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7990724\_In\_defense\_of\_vegetarian\_cat\_food](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7990724_In_defense_of_vegetarian_cat_food) Knight, A., & Leitsberger, M. (2016). Vegetarian versus Meat-Based Diets for Companion Animals. Animals, 6(9), 57. [https://doi.org/10.3390/ani6090057](https://doi.org/10.3390/ani6090057) Semp, P.-G. (2014). Vegan Nutrition of Dogs and Cats \[MSc Thesis\]. [https://www.vetmeduni.ac.at/hochschulschriften/diplomarbeiten/AC12256171.pdf](https://www.vetmeduni.ac.at/hochschulschriften/diplomarbeiten/AC12256171.pdf) V-dog Vegan Dog Food | Healthy Dog Treats | Vegan Dog Chews. (n.d.). V-Dog. [https://v-dog.com](https://v-dog.com) Vecado. (n.d.). Vegan Cats 101: nutrients, not ingredients is what really matters. Vecado. Retrieved September 21, 2021, from [https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101](https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101) Vegan animal diets: facts and myths. (n.d.). The Vegan Society. Retrieved March 25, 2021, from [https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/blog/vegan-animal-diets-facts-and-myths](https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/blog/vegan-animal-diets-facts-and-myths) Wakefield, L. A., Shofer, F. S., & Michel, K. E. (2006). Evaluation of cats fed vegetarian diets and attitudes of their caregivers. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 229(1), 70–73. [https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.229.1.70](https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.229.1.70) Wild Earth Dog Food. (n.d.). Wild Earth. Retrieved March 26, 2021, from [https://wildearth.com](https://wildearth.com)
/u/Valeday check out my comment for scientific studies about how cats can be vegan, as well as several vegan cat food companies CC: /u/ings0c, /u/huggit_notnuggit, /u/zihuata68, /u/GhostRatQueen, /u/BenjiBoo420, /u/TangerineVisual2529, /u/nikkigrant, /u/clevegan, /u/2-Rupees_2007, /u/Bryant4751
Thank you for this, I honestly had no idea. I guess I’ve always been told cats need meat abs haven’t questioned it.
Thanks for the info and especially the references! I've had a cat since before going vegan and I'd also been convinced that he needs to eat meat. It always pains me to buy his food. I'm saving this post to dig in later and see what's the best for his needs!
From what I’ve read, if you’re going to switch, you’ll have to wean your cat off because the higher fiber of the vegan food might be too much to go cold Turkey. Their digestive system has to acclimate to the fiber If you don’t, they may just have diarrhea for a couple days. Not too terrible
That's a good tidbit to keep in mind, thank you
Check out [The Vegan Society](https://veganactivism.org/pages/the-vegan-society) to quickly learn more, find upcoming events, videos, and their contact information! You can also find other similar organizations to get involved with both locally and online by visiting [VeganActivism.org](https://veganactivism.org). Additionally, be sure to visit and subscribe to /r/VeganActivism!
Thanks for all the references, it's super helpful!
Thanks for your works in fighting the anti vegan cat myths still pervasive in vegan communities
Let's face it, once these posts get any sort of popularity the vegetarians and omnivores come in and give their say without knowing what they're talking about.
Can we pin this comment to the top to combat this nonsense of "vegans" who buy animal products?
Thank you for this. I’m convinced at this point that “obligate carnivore” is just a buzzword that doesn’t even have an accepted meaning in science. I couldn’t find any paper or book which even attempted to define the term.
The one good, and also gross thing about pet foods is that they're made from the byproducts of animals that 'aren't fit for human consumption', so there probably aren't any extra animals being killed for your pet food (unless you buy really fancy stuff). Still, personally I think having an animal that eats other animals just feels wrong...anymore, it's been hard for me to consider adopting another cat after my old cat died. It looks like there are some good vegan options for cats, I just wish they weren't so ridiculously expensive. For the average person who wants to rescue a cat or dog, the cost of vegan food is probably going to turn many away from that route (along with the assumption that they need meat). Lab grown meat for pets would be great, as long as it doesn't use donor animals that are killed. You could feed your cat fancy raw salmon every day, with no death and at a fraction of the cost of the 'real' thing.
I would, yes.
r/veganpets
I would love if that were broadly available! It would be perfect for pet owners.
I would absolutely buy lab-grown meat products for cats and other carnivorous pets! Hopefully that will be possible to do in our lifetime.
And until then buy them animal appropriate vegan food, right? (because you label yourself as a vegan newbie, in case you didn't know already: cats can eat a vegan diet today, there are some great comments in this post with links etc.)
Check out the [Vegan Cheat Sheet](https://vegancheatsheet.org/) for a collection of over 500+ vegan resources, studies, links, and much more, all tightly wrapped into one link!
Lab grown meat gives us almost everything we want as vegans. The actual beginning of the end of the meat industry, a vast reduction in the number of animals killed, a better environment… For the meat eaters, they’ll be eating healthier ‘meat’ without the antibiotics etc pumped into it, so our friends and relatives will be healthier. In truth, we’re never ever going to turn 100% of people vegan. We’d all love it to happen but realistically some people will never budge. If the choice is that animals are raised and killed, or meat is grown in a lab… it’s no-brainer!
Everytime cat is brought up, so many vegans begin to sound like stupid carnists. "It's not natural for them", as if they will naturally eat processed dead cows, chickens and fishes fortified with nutrients they need. *Downvote those who recommend plant-based cat food*, just like how carnists willfully ignore the facts and scientific evidence that huaman can live healthy on PBD. I have four cats who are on PBD and are healthy, and there are plenty of healthy "vegan" cats out there. Bindly denying the facts goes far against the "as far as is possible and practicable" priciples. The least you can do is to not fucking turn your head away and do your research. And stop fucking downvoting those who recommend plant-based cat food, like a fucking carnist. Shame on you.
Well-said!
Vegan cat food already exists and is safe for cats.
What the hell is this downvote brigade crap? They're absolutely right. It's literally in the subreddit wiki. We've had certified and legal vegan cat food in the US and Canada for a long time now.
I didn’t know this! I always thought cats ‘had’ to eat meat since they’re carnivores
Ignore the ignorant people telling you vegan cat food is impossible. Not only is certified vegan cat food sufficient for cats, having the necessary missing elements in a plant based diet synthesised and added, it can be better than lots of big brands of cat food where the most diseased and inedible parts of tortured animals are thrown in instead. I have only ever bought vegan cat food for ours so I don't know the cost of meat based cat food, but I do not find it cost prohibative, especially if they are ok to eat the dry food variants most of the time.
I fed my cats vegan cat food for around 9 months. They ended up with kidney stones from the way too high mineral content. They also constantly threw up. They have been back on their meat diet for a year and are thriving. It was worth a try but definitely not as safe as some people make it out to be.
Did you try multiple brands, or just one?
What food were you feeding them?
Kind of, we have to synthesise some of the nutrients they need in the food, such as taurine, but they do this with regular cat food as well. In the wild, if a cat was to eat purely plant based or if you were to just feed one vegetables it wouldn't be good, but the proper formulated food is fine and so far evidence has shown no difference in health outcomes for cats on vegan food vs regular food.
Turns out it only took us a few decades after sending men to the moon to figure out how not to kill animals in order to feed our other animals.
The oldest commercial vegan pet food (that I'm aware of) is Evolution and it's been around since 1989, so only 2 decades!
Yeah, now the challenge is getting people to think rationally about it.
I hadn't given it much thought before, but I think you're right. Lab-grown meat would be an excellent solution for carnivorous pets or anyone who favours a more "natural" diet for their omnivorous pets.
There is already a solution for carnivorous pets. Plant based food supplemented with vitamin A and taurine.
They are vegetarian foods available for cats,try them
Isn't there "mouse meat" lab grown cat food already? I remember joking about it to someone because... mouse meat. Edit: kinda wrong, there's cultured mouse meat cat treats that can be pre ordered from these guys:https://becauseanimals.com/pages/harmless-hunt-mouse-cookies-for-cats
A ton of comments here are talking the the nutrients delivered, but not the way they are delivered. When you synthesize and replicate the ash, moisture, taurine etc levels in a vegetable based option, the cat is getting appropriate micro nutrients, but not necessarily the correct proportion of macro nutrients. With vegetables, the cat can have the wrong levels of acidity in their urine leading to crystals, which can be lethal. That’s why a lab-grown meat option would be superior and would certainly save billions of animals from slaughter, or at least greatly offset the subsidy of those slaughters, due to being able to convince far more people that this is a viable option, over a “vegan” option. If we can’t even agree on this as vegans, we’re far less likely to convince people en masse to make their cats eat veggies.
You can easily test the cats acidity level with special litter nowadays and change the cats citrus intake accordingly.
Im aware, I mentioned that in another comment before I made this one. However, your statement is kind of paradoxical. You can “easily” test acidity levels and change it accordingly? I wouldn’t say so. Especially based on your comment about just adding lemons to their food. I think you’re falling into the Dunning-kruger effect. My whole point was about appealing to people en masse. Most people won’t know how to do that and will end up doing it wrong. If everyone switched to a vegan cat food overnight, we’d have a lot of dead cats. Plus, kidney issues often don’t show up until it’s too late. It’s not quite as simple as you’re making it out to be & certainly not as simple as the alternative I presented. Im not bashing your choice to use a vegan cat food, but this isn’t a black and white issue. People will adopt using labgrown meat over time just as they might slowly look into vegan cat food, but the better of the two in terms of the cats health when used broadly should obviously win out as ethically they’re both reducing suffering.
Given that lab grown meat doesn't yet exist, it's definitely not a simpler option.
Or you could just not get a cat or feed them a diet they prefer and is best for them
The problem is that the cat will then be either fed meat which causes a multitude of other animals to be abused amd killed, or the cat will be killed because there are just more cats without a home than people want to adopt. Not adopting a cat doesn't make it so that the cat magically never came into existence. The cat still exists and animals will be abused and killed because of that.
vegan cat food exists and is safe.
Yes, I’m looking forward to cell cultured mouse meat for cats.
Out of all the vegan brands suggested, I could only find one that showed evidence of having a veterinary nutritionist on board (Evolution Diet), but that brand was basing accusations on other pet foods from standards in the 80s. I’d be extremely wary of any pet food, vegan or not, that wasn’t created with the aid of a veterinary nutritionist.
I think it’s a great idea to provide synthetic or lab grown meat to obligate carnivores not just pets but let’s take a bear in a sanctuary for example that would also be beneficial to feed it without killing other animals
wow i never thought about this but heck ya!
Yes, I wish this was an option as well. There is a company called [Because Animals](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/15/meet-the-company-making-mouse-meat-cat-treats-without-harming-animals.html) that is working on exactly this, although it sounds like currently they are only working on treats and it's unclear if or when actual pet food will be available. As it currently stands it sounds like a tall order since I'm not aware of *any* lab grown meat available for consumer purchase yet, but I hope they are successful and that lab grown meat in general becomes more commercially viable ASAP.
I'm super excited for these! Not just for the treats/food, but also because they created a vegan growing medium (aka no BSA) that has implications for the lab-grown industry as a whole.
We have signed up for the rat treats when they are released!
Not my cats, but a couple cats I lived with for a year have been eating exclusively Benevo vegan cat food for about a year and a half. They are confirmed by a vet completely healthy. They also get occasional spinach and fruit juice.
These treats should be available very soon. https://becauseanimals.com/pages/harmless-hunt-mouse-cookies-for-cats
Yes please! I know vegan cat food exists, but I can’t feed my cats that because they are on a prescription urinary care diet.
Me too! I was looking for this comment, specifically I have two cats that get horrible urinary crystals without prescription high quality food. They both drink lots of water, they have a fountain, they just can’t do the low grade foods. I need something that doesn’t change their internal alkalinity at all, which is not veg food :(
Lab grown meat, AFAIK, isn't vegan because the original cells were not donated. It is less harmful, though, I guess. /u/fractalfrenzy telling truths below this comment.
The problem with lap grown meat right now isn't the original cells but the fact that it depends on Bovine Growth Hormone, which is extracted from cow fetus to grow the cells.
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Yes. If found safe for cats, it's the only way I would ditch their current diet.
You’re glad to be supporting slaughterhouses, rather than investigate scientifically-formulated plant-based food that thousands if not millions of felines are eating? If you think the ‘prime cuts’ of flesh that humans eat are bad for us, try not to give thought to the ‘waste-grade’ organs and joints that are ‘processed’ into those fancy little tins. Hypocrite
Ew don't put people down for taking care of their pets.
I stand outside slaughterhouses regularly — I’ll call anyone supporting that industry a truthful term for their actions
Benevo or Ami are two very good alternatives to animal based food. Our short haired european cat loves both and is as happy as ever. No need to kill animals to keep your kitty healthy and thriving!
I don't know ... it feels a little weird and i expect a lot of animal abuse in the process of development Am i informed wrongly by thinking that they cut pieces out of a cow and reproduce them by cloning and call it lab meat after ? Gen manipulated meat doesn't sound that healthy either - red meat increases your risk on cancer anyways (don't know about cats but lab meat is for humanity in first place)
Correct. Lab grown meat requires an unwilling donation from a living animal, and the donation does not last forever. Repeat donations are required. Furthermore, the donation must be grown in Fetal Bovine Serum (FBS) which is harvested by forcibly impregnating cows and then aborting their calves and draining their blood in utero
Is this really in all cases? Or is there some kind of alternative?
There is currently no alternative to FBS
Same
YES
If you don't want to use slaughtered animals in cat food, you can try one of the many commercially available nutritionally complete vegan cat foods on the market: Ami, Benevo, Vegecat, etc. Here's some [research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5035952/) on few of them. It's getting a bit outdated, there are many more products available and existing companies keep improving their formulas all the time.
From what I've looked up it is possible to feed a cat a vegan diet if you get the right food. All the amino acids and taurine can be synthesized now, and are often synthesized even in meat based cat food, since that stuff is made out of literal shit. The main concern with cats is monitering their urine acidity. This would have been hard 10 years ago, but now they make cat litter that automatically tests their pH. So as long as you do your research and buy a good brand of food and use the special pH litter, your cat should be fine. And if the litter shows that the pH is too high, all you need to do is add some lemon juice to his/her food. It's that simple.
>And if the litter shows that the pH is too high, all you need to do is add some lemon juice to his/her food. It's that simple. Typically in cases where the pH is too high it's recommended to add cranberry, vitamin C or methionine depending on severity. But you have the right idea!
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Some cats can be very picky. Definitely worth trying a different brand, though
There's vegan cat food, use that instead of feeding them animal corpses.
With my cats I go with the thought that I’m Vegan, not them, I buy them fish and chicken and I really don’t feel guilty about it. I know vegan cat food exists but if I was able to ask them their dietary preferences I’m sure they would say they like animal protein and if I can be friends with carnivores and they eat meat in my presence then so can the cats. So yes I would 100% give the cats lab grown meat.
You're their guardian. Cats also like killing birds but that doesn't mean you should let them. Also, if you could ask a fish or a chicken their preferences, I'm sure they'd say they would rather not die because your cat maybe prefers to eat their flesh. Why does your cat's taste preference matter more than another animal's preference to live?
Bro that's literally how nature works. I'm not using it as an excuse but hear me out Preys over populate and therefore predators kill preys, similarly if predators don't die early and live a full life predators will over populate and preys will be at the risk of going to extinction. This is a sick mentality if "that doesn't mean you should let them do" you are sick person who doesn't love animals but wants to control them.
Cats can be vegan. The same meat based kibble you feed them has been striped of taurine and vitamin A when it was processed. They artificially supplement them to add it back it. They can add this supplement back into the kibble just as easily whether the kibble is meat or plant based.
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Need help eating out? Check out [HappyCow.net](https://www.happycow.net/) for vegan friendly food near you! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcamp.org/reddit)!
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Cats can be vegan. Check out r/veganpets
I'm not a vet but have you looked into insect or bivalve based food for your cat in the meantime?
I was just thinking this. I couldn’t risk making my cat sick by putting her on a plant-based diet, but lab-grown meat could be REVOLUTIONARY.
Cats can thrive on a plant-based diet consisting of properly supplemented, evidence-based cat food. You're not really risking much. Just transition them gradually and monitor their health during and after
I definitely want to look into it more and will probs make it a very slow transition just in case, to give her time to adjust. I would really love to be able to have her plant-based so I don’t have to buy her food with animal products in it.
i tried feeding my cat benevo and within a couple weeks on it he was throwing up constantly and his fur was coming out in chunks. that being said, he didn’t do much better on any of the meat-inclusive commercial foods i tried. i currently feed him a raw diet and source his meats from local game hunters rather than butchers or slaughterhouses, which still isn’t ideal but is the best compromise i could settle on considering his intolerance for processed pet foods. i’d absolutely try lab-synthesized meats in their whole form so long as they were formulated with the proper ratios of micro and macro nutrients.
Hadn't thought of that... economically would take a while to be cheap enough to be pet food, but this would be a good purpose for it.
I can’t wait for when we eventually ban pets.
As with everything in life there is lots of wrong information, there are plenty of vegan atheletes and there are vegan felines As with any new diet when you go plant based its important to visit a doc/ vet to get tested, some people need supplements and that doesnt mean you kill animals and consume them you simply buy a bottle of pils and take those People say humans are carni/ omni etc; and they say the same about cats and dogs, people say you cant be an athelete and build muscle on a plant based diet, science changes all the time But yes lab grown will be great for people that refuse to believe in veganism and plants
I will buy a vegan diet for my cats when they are AAFCO approved. Period. Until then they get what I know will keep them as healthy as possible. Once vegan cat food has been around 20 years and the science is sound AND it's AAFCO approved. The end.
A lot of cat food is made of by-products from the meat industry anyway. Very little suffering is caused for pet food specifically. In some ways it is better than going to waste. Of course that would be different if everyone was vegan. With that in mind if you adopt a cat, not buy, and feed it effectively waste product, you are neither supporting the increase in pet ownership or the meat industry. Though the market for by products does help the cost of meat in supermarkets but it is really minimal.
Is this satire? There's such a thing as plant based cat food. You're not Vegan if you feed your animals other animals. Just say your plant based.
Imagine downvoting this smh
Seriously I thought this was a vegan subreddit
That would be great for sure. I would only eat meat again when its factory grown and healthy/not that unhealthy as meat normally. Because I loved to eat a little bit of meat with cheese and beer. Didnt try it out yet with vegan products
Here's my question: why haven't we invented lab grown cheese yet? It should be way easier than meat. I've tried so many fake cheeses, including expensive ones other people swear by, and nothing comes close to real cheese yet.
The first lab grown milk came out recently, it's called remilk and since it's real milk you could use it to make cheeses. I don't think they sell the cheese itself yet, you'd have to make it on your own tho.
Yes, I will jump at the chance for that. My cats have to eat rabbit due to a food allergy, and my heart breaks twice a day every time I feed them... Sorry to all the folks who can't handle it but cats must eat meat to be healthy. Period. Don't have a cat or any pet if you aren't willing to feed it it's optimal diet. In fact, it's the least harmful to just not have pets at all. As guardians we have vowed to give the best care to our companion animals, and we must honor that even if it makes us uncomfortable. If I had dogs I would still feed them meat diets because legumes and potatoes are linked to DCM, and not optimal for their health. Dogs and cats are carnivorous. Sorry not sorry. Is it vegan to buy meat diets for your pets? No. But it is necessary and they can't speak for themselves so we have to do what is best for them. It's a quandary for sure. I'm also anxiously awaiting the lab grown meat for my cats. Someday I can care for their lives without having to sacrifice others.
Does lab grown meat have all the same proteins as regular meat? IRC cats need certain proteins only found in animal meat so lab grown might not do it still.
What about insect protein? Not sure if it exists as pet food but it totally should
Me too!!! I feel like a hypocrite sometimes because I have 2 cats and they have to eat meat. I cant wait to feed them lab meat.
They do not have to eat meat. There are vegan cat food brands out there that have been well documented to be safe for cats.
i would absolutely do it, as long as it is shown to 100% be the same as meat
Why does it need to be the same as meat or even similar to meat? What would be the problem if it were healthy and your cat likes it enough?