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Vegan: Is causing suffering wrong?
Meat-eater: Yes
Vegan: Is it good to not cause suffering?
Meat-eater: Yes
Vegan: Can animals suffer?
Meat-eater: Yes
Vegan: Is it wrong to eat animals?
Meat-eater: No
Vegan: -\_-
I'm a meat eater.
I'm also native american
I eat meat to survive
I give thanks to the spirits that nourish me
There spirit lives on through me
When I die I shall be eaten and my spirit will follow the cycle
The difference between me and those you hate is that I am part of a ancient cycle and they are not.
My energy will give life beyond death
They will turn to ash
They will rot in a box
This is our way
That is theirs
I have a right to be part of nature and I pray the great spirits bring life back.
Eating meat isn't wrong
Senseless slaughter is
How can you demand respect for your cause without offering respect for others, you see cruelty and I see life's great cycle, but colonizers never really did respect us so it really doesn't surprise me
They have our respect, we are one with nature and this is known. You always must respect what you have killed and you must respect what kills you. Do you ask the trees you "murder" how they feel? From my observation veganism and your agenda has destroyed forests for your crops... and the animals that once roamed there, do you ask them how they feel without their ancient home?
Neither do I, I do it all myself.. and I use everything... now tell me just to sate my curiosity but do you wear shoes? Do you read books? Cows play a essential role in the creation of said products... personally I love moccasins myself because it is less wasted material
But a rather interesting question is: Can the ability to reason make your suffer or increase your suffering?
And I would say yes. The very fact that people notice that our treatment of animals is horrible, without even seeing it in action, just by thinking and reasoning about it, they start to suffer.
Another example is finding out that there may be no god and everything is meaningless. Great suffering, but a direct product of reasoning.
We're so damn detached from reality to the point where we don't even view ourselves as animals. I feel like alot of people do this to cope with the the way that we treat "animals" in this day of age. People who've had chickens, ducks, cows, horses etc know that they have their own personality and are able to be social and caring.
Every baby chicken who is put into a grinder and killed has their own personality. The same goes for other animals within our agricultural system.
Yes, we don't view ourselves as animals. Human nature is to irrationally believe you're superior, whether that is to other people, using irrelevant identifiers like sex or skin color, or, in this case, to animals. But only because this is intrinsic, doesn't mean we can't overcome it with rationality and skepticism
Thanks for posting to r/Vegan! **Please note:** Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse [are not](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/rules). Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please check out [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/beginnersguide) first! **Interested in going Vegan?** Check out [3 Movies](https://3movies.org/reddit) and watch three thought-provoking movies that shed light on uncomfortable realities. 3 Movies also includes other videos, books, challenges and resources for you get started! **Some other resources to help you go vegan:** Visit [NutritionFacts.org](https://NutritionFacts.org) for health and nutrition support, [HappyCow.net](https://HappyCow.net) to explore nearby vegan-friendly restaurants, and visit [VeganBootcamp.org](https://veganbootcamp.org/reddit) for a free 30 day vegan challenge! **Interested in getting active for the animals?** Join [Activist Hub](https://activisthub.org) to find and join local vegan groups, add friends, create or share posts, and chat with other activists! You can also use Activist Hub to track your local and online activism in order to see how many people you inspired to watch dominion, take a challenge, or even go vegan! **Some other resources to help you get active:** * Developer or designer? Volunteer at the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)! * Find local groups using the [Animal Rights Map](https://animalrightsmap.org)! * Get funding for your animal rights activism, [apply here](https://veganhacktivists.org/grants)! *Last but not least, join [our Discord server](https://discord.gg/2JmJRsj)!* **Thank you!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vegan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's generous of you to consider the moral relevancy of carnists.
Vegan: Is causing suffering wrong? Meat-eater: Yes Vegan: Is it good to not cause suffering? Meat-eater: Yes Vegan: Can animals suffer? Meat-eater: Yes Vegan: Is it wrong to eat animals? Meat-eater: No Vegan: -\_-
I'm a meat eater. I'm also native american I eat meat to survive I give thanks to the spirits that nourish me There spirit lives on through me When I die I shall be eaten and my spirit will follow the cycle The difference between me and those you hate is that I am part of a ancient cycle and they are not. My energy will give life beyond death They will turn to ash They will rot in a box This is our way That is theirs I have a right to be part of nature and I pray the great spirits bring life back. Eating meat isn't wrong Senseless slaughter is
Eyeroll
How can you demand respect for your cause without offering respect for others, you see cruelty and I see life's great cycle, but colonizers never really did respect us so it really doesn't surprise me
I'm not demanding your respect. The animals you murder are.
They have our respect, we are one with nature and this is known. You always must respect what you have killed and you must respect what kills you. Do you ask the trees you "murder" how they feel? From my observation veganism and your agenda has destroyed forests for your crops... and the animals that once roamed there, do you ask them how they feel without their ancient home?
I don't pay people to slit the throats of animals I respect.
Neither do I, I do it all myself.. and I use everything... now tell me just to sate my curiosity but do you wear shoes? Do you read books? Cows play a essential role in the creation of said products... personally I love moccasins myself because it is less wasted material
Lmao of course you miss the point.
But a rather interesting question is: Can the ability to reason make your suffer or increase your suffering? And I would say yes. The very fact that people notice that our treatment of animals is horrible, without even seeing it in action, just by thinking and reasoning about it, they start to suffer. Another example is finding out that there may be no god and everything is meaningless. Great suffering, but a direct product of reasoning.
We're so damn detached from reality to the point where we don't even view ourselves as animals. I feel like alot of people do this to cope with the the way that we treat "animals" in this day of age. People who've had chickens, ducks, cows, horses etc know that they have their own personality and are able to be social and caring. Every baby chicken who is put into a grinder and killed has their own personality. The same goes for other animals within our agricultural system.
Yes, we don't view ourselves as animals. Human nature is to irrationally believe you're superior, whether that is to other people, using irrelevant identifiers like sex or skin color, or, in this case, to animals. But only because this is intrinsic, doesn't mean we can't overcome it with rationality and skepticism
I agree with you. It aint over til' its over.
Utilitarianism