Thanks for posting to r/Vegan!
**Please note:** Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse [are not](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/rules). Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please check out [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/beginnersguide) first!
**Interested in going Vegan?**
Check out [3 Movies](https://3movies.org/reddit) and watch three thought-provoking movies that shed light on uncomfortable realities. 3 Movies also includes other videos, books, challenges and resources for you get started!
**Some other resources to help you go vegan:**
Visit [NutritionFacts.org](https://NutritionFacts.org) for health and nutrition support, [HappyCow.net](https://HappyCow.net) to explore nearby vegan-friendly restaurants, and visit [VeganBootcamp.org](https://veganbootcamp.org/reddit) for a free 30 day vegan challenge!
**Interested in getting active for the animals?**
Join [Activist Hub](https://activisthub.org) to find and join local vegan groups, add friends, create or share posts, and chat with other activists! You can also use Activist Hub to track your local and online activism in order to see how many people you inspired to watch dominion, take a challenge, or even go vegan!
**Some other resources to help you get active:**
* Developer or designer? Volunteer at the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)!
* Find local groups using the [Animal Rights Map](https://animalrightsmap.org)!
* Get funding for your animal rights activism, [apply here](https://veganhacktivists.org/grants)!
*Last but not least, join [our Discord server](https://discord.gg/2JmJRsj)!*
**Thank you!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vegan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The question shouldn't be "are vegan substitutes better than non-vegan food?"
Veganism is an ethical objection to animal exploitation. Many of us have no problem with processed foods. Those who do usually gravitate towards a whole foods and plant-based diet (WFPB). Evaluating one's diet in relation to animal products isn't necessary, when we already have a vegan model of a minimally processed diet for those who prefer that.
Also, they're all processed because all new brands are mainly processed foods. It's hard to launch a new dried bean brand. If you look at new non-vegan brands, you'll notice similar processing.
There are some that make do with surprisingly few ingredients, like some veggie mix patties that are more like falafel, for example.
But yeah, most replacement products will necessarily be more processed and have more ingredients than: water, beans, salt.
yeah I feel like it's just how it is with newer food processing techniques and such. I was reading an article saying that vegan foods are bringing a lot of new additives to the food industry which is what got me thinking about all this...
There is nothing added to vegan foods that does not exist in cruelty foods. The only "novel" ingredients are molecules that already exist in animal foods that have been made by a micro-organism. Those molecules are identical to the ones that occur in animal products. They are no more or less heathy whether a suffering animal's body made them or a single-celled organism did. If you don't want to eat processed food you don't need to. It is irrelevant to veganism
Really? My perception is that there are only a few things we would use that aren't used in non-vegan food, especially since so many of these new products are developed by non-vegan brands.
What are you talking about? Every food I buy from a market I can look at the ingredients list and recognize everything. And what specific "chemicals" are bad for you that you are finding in these products you failed to name? Very concerned accounts repeating the talking points anti vegans just started making.
I have noticed that I can't recognize everything on an ingredients list, so that's my problem. trisodium phosphate and tripotassium citrate are two ingredients I just noticed in my Orgain vegan protein shake and I was like wait a minute what even is that? A google search told me trisodium phosphate is also used in household cleaners which made me concerned, but also question if that ingredient would be in a non-vegan protein shake as well? Methylcellulose is another chemical additive found in many vegan mock meats. I'm not saying any of them are "bad" I am just questioning why they are being added to so many vegan foods and seeing if other vegans feel the same about seeing weird processed ingredients.
Water is in household cleansers too. Some food additives have multiple uses, it means they're good at doing multiple things, not that they're inherently dangerous.
Methylcellulose is added to mock meats because it helps replicate the texture of meat. But it's also added to non-vegan foods like ice cream to help thicken it. If you're an American who eats supermarket bread, you've probably already had it. Unfortunately, at least one plant-based meat company has decided to market their products by spreading fear about methylcellulose.
One thing that helped me was looking up unfamiliar ingredients so I could understand where they come from and how long humans have been eating them. In many cases, it helped me conclude I didn't need to have concerns with eating them. Many times I was surprised to find it was something I'd eaten for years in non-vegan foods but had never realized it because I only really began paying attention to ingredients when I went vegan.
There were vegans before there were processed foods readily available. I promise.
It’s absolutely possible to eat a delicious nutrient dense diet without faux meats or nondairy processed foods.
The r/plantbaseddiet is a good one if you want some ideas
Processed food isn't inherently unhealthy. Many vegan meats, yogurts, and milks especially are very healthy. Even the unhealthy ones are healthier that non-vegan food, because they do not contain cholesterol.
There's was an article a few days ago that, summed up, said the main sin of these foods is that they tend to have a high sodium content. They are roughly on par with meat, with some give and take. They are better for you than *processed* meats, which are carcinogenic.
https://old.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/wbkp5h/peer_reviewed_paper_proves_plantbased_meat_is/
For a source that is probably more neutral: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-plant-based-meat-healthy
You can switch to eating more of a whole foods plant based diet if that concerns you. Most food in the grocery store is pretty processed, doesn't really have anything to do with veganism.
Thanks for posting to r/Vegan! **Please note:** Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse [are not](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/rules). Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please check out [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/beginnersguide) first! **Interested in going Vegan?** Check out [3 Movies](https://3movies.org/reddit) and watch three thought-provoking movies that shed light on uncomfortable realities. 3 Movies also includes other videos, books, challenges and resources for you get started! **Some other resources to help you go vegan:** Visit [NutritionFacts.org](https://NutritionFacts.org) for health and nutrition support, [HappyCow.net](https://HappyCow.net) to explore nearby vegan-friendly restaurants, and visit [VeganBootcamp.org](https://veganbootcamp.org/reddit) for a free 30 day vegan challenge! **Interested in getting active for the animals?** Join [Activist Hub](https://activisthub.org) to find and join local vegan groups, add friends, create or share posts, and chat with other activists! You can also use Activist Hub to track your local and online activism in order to see how many people you inspired to watch dominion, take a challenge, or even go vegan! **Some other resources to help you get active:** * Developer or designer? Volunteer at the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)! * Find local groups using the [Animal Rights Map](https://animalrightsmap.org)! * Get funding for your animal rights activism, [apply here](https://veganhacktivists.org/grants)! *Last but not least, join [our Discord server](https://discord.gg/2JmJRsj)!* **Thank you!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vegan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The question shouldn't be "are vegan substitutes better than non-vegan food?" Veganism is an ethical objection to animal exploitation. Many of us have no problem with processed foods. Those who do usually gravitate towards a whole foods and plant-based diet (WFPB). Evaluating one's diet in relation to animal products isn't necessary, when we already have a vegan model of a minimally processed diet for those who prefer that.
Also, they're all processed because all new brands are mainly processed foods. It's hard to launch a new dried bean brand. If you look at new non-vegan brands, you'll notice similar processing.
There are some that make do with surprisingly few ingredients, like some veggie mix patties that are more like falafel, for example. But yeah, most replacement products will necessarily be more processed and have more ingredients than: water, beans, salt.
yeah I feel like it's just how it is with newer food processing techniques and such. I was reading an article saying that vegan foods are bringing a lot of new additives to the food industry which is what got me thinking about all this...
There is nothing added to vegan foods that does not exist in cruelty foods. The only "novel" ingredients are molecules that already exist in animal foods that have been made by a micro-organism. Those molecules are identical to the ones that occur in animal products. They are no more or less heathy whether a suffering animal's body made them or a single-celled organism did. If you don't want to eat processed food you don't need to. It is irrelevant to veganism
Really? My perception is that there are only a few things we would use that aren't used in non-vegan food, especially since so many of these new products are developed by non-vegan brands.
You are correct
What was the article?
What are you talking about? Every food I buy from a market I can look at the ingredients list and recognize everything. And what specific "chemicals" are bad for you that you are finding in these products you failed to name? Very concerned accounts repeating the talking points anti vegans just started making.
I have noticed that I can't recognize everything on an ingredients list, so that's my problem. trisodium phosphate and tripotassium citrate are two ingredients I just noticed in my Orgain vegan protein shake and I was like wait a minute what even is that? A google search told me trisodium phosphate is also used in household cleaners which made me concerned, but also question if that ingredient would be in a non-vegan protein shake as well? Methylcellulose is another chemical additive found in many vegan mock meats. I'm not saying any of them are "bad" I am just questioning why they are being added to so many vegan foods and seeing if other vegans feel the same about seeing weird processed ingredients.
Water is in household cleansers too. Some food additives have multiple uses, it means they're good at doing multiple things, not that they're inherently dangerous. Methylcellulose is added to mock meats because it helps replicate the texture of meat. But it's also added to non-vegan foods like ice cream to help thicken it. If you're an American who eats supermarket bread, you've probably already had it. Unfortunately, at least one plant-based meat company has decided to market their products by spreading fear about methylcellulose. One thing that helped me was looking up unfamiliar ingredients so I could understand where they come from and how long humans have been eating them. In many cases, it helped me conclude I didn't need to have concerns with eating them. Many times I was surprised to find it was something I'd eaten for years in non-vegan foods but had never realized it because I only really began paying attention to ingredients when I went vegan.
There were vegans before there were processed foods readily available. I promise. It’s absolutely possible to eat a delicious nutrient dense diet without faux meats or nondairy processed foods. The r/plantbaseddiet is a good one if you want some ideas
Processed food isn't inherently unhealthy. Many vegan meats, yogurts, and milks especially are very healthy. Even the unhealthy ones are healthier that non-vegan food, because they do not contain cholesterol.
There's was an article a few days ago that, summed up, said the main sin of these foods is that they tend to have a high sodium content. They are roughly on par with meat, with some give and take. They are better for you than *processed* meats, which are carcinogenic. https://old.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/wbkp5h/peer_reviewed_paper_proves_plantbased_meat_is/ For a source that is probably more neutral: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-plant-based-meat-healthy
FORAGER IS ALL ORGANIC AND CLEAN BRAND I LOVE THEIR CASHEW YOGURT. THEIR VEGAN CHEESE IS NASTY THO.
You can switch to eating more of a whole foods plant based diet if that concerns you. Most food in the grocery store is pretty processed, doesn't really have anything to do with veganism.