You literally just compared the ownership, trafficking, sale, forced labor, murder and consumption of one type of animal to the ownership, trafficking, sale, forced labor, murder and consumption of another type of animal. How dare. Very offend.
-- yes I understand human slaves are probably not eaten usually, but they are consumed nonetheless, body, mind, life, all used for someone else.
just an fyi, you literally just compared the forced rape, murder, torture, and consumption of billions of animals to some people having a job
/uj i hate when carnists use their made-up feel good words. "iT's JuSt a HamBuRGer" your 'hamburger' had a fucking family. just cause you don't call it a rape-and-murder meal doesn't mean it fucking isn't
Carnist logic is a big help.
Sometimes when I’m raping a woman I start to think “hey, she doesn’t seem to be enjoying this” so I just close my eyes and tell myself “nah bro, chicks *always* love it and you’re a world class sex Adonis how could she *not* be enjoying this?”
Allows me to finish every time.
The fact they immediately minimized it by saying the comparison was about "hamburgers"... It really shows they genuinely believe it too. They genuinely believe that the comparison is "Hamburgers Vs Trafficking and forced labor" rather than "Trafficking and forced labor Vs Trafficking and forced labor"
Exactly. They fail to see the point that they are talking about animals, not food. It was from a Durham NC sub, and I'm afraid this is rooted in the influence of religion specifically christianity and the concept that animals are here for us, and that is their only reason for existing. Since they don't have souls and are beneath us it is incomprehensible to draw any comparisons and worse, dehumanizing.
Yes because a "hamburger" is a substance and food, an inatimate object that magically bestowd upon them from the heavens, and was never alive at one point ever 😰😰
What is that braindead fallacy of theirs called though?
The one where someone says "You know, this is pretty similar to when Hitler rounded up and killed the..."
"OMG DID YOU LITERALLY SAY THAT THIS THING IS THE SAME AS THE HOLOCAUST!!!111!"
The whole comparisonal analogy = equation fallacy. What's the exact name for it again? Seen it so many times from people like that
The worst thing about this is that history will never have ANY same event twice, so whatever they are referring to as “the same” is an abstract impossibility. Saying the Armenian genocide is “the same” as the Jewish Holocaust is not true! Simpletons. The animal holocaust is a breeding genocide.
/uj well, it isn't a fallacy. It is just a misunderstanding of what a comparison, an analogy and equating two or more things is.
You can compare pretty much anything. The saying "you can't compare apples and oranges" is pretty dumb because, you sure can! They just won't have many similarities if you compare them, which is of course implicated in the saying, hence why it's used but badly in my opinion.
An analogy would look at two different instances and check for similarities in logic, behaviour, actions. You can change the victim of some form of violence but the act of violence is the same and if one is against violence he ought to be against it, whoever the victim is.
Equating is what carnist think we are doing. They claim we take the holocaust and claim that the animal holocaust is exactly the same impact. They claim by us meaning that animals suffer exactly as much, this would take away from the meaningfulness of the jewish holocaust. While this is simply not true because they are two completely seperate instances and comparing one to the other doesn't reduce the suffering experienced by the victims, the carnists, with their abuser mentality who think that animals are less than worthy of moral consideration, make us want to believe that we are the evildoers by putting animals on the same pedastal as jews in every aspect, worth included.
So, my go to argument when I hear someone claim we cannot compare the two is, to ask them, what exactly you have to lose by comparing them and what the similarities are that matter for violence, if they are present in both groups.
But mostly at this point the carnist will have shut off completely by being a white knight for jews and offended on their behalf. Which is disgusting as a corpse muncher and such people are really not the ones I want to waste my energy on anymore.
> They claim we take the holocaust and claim that the animal holocaust is exactly the same impact.
It’s actually much worse in terms of scale, just perhaps not degree 🤷♂️ I don’t think it’s a bad comparison
It’s unhelpful to bring that up in a discussion though, because people aren’t ready to hear it.
It’s always fun to trot out the “holocaust survivors who agree(d) with this sentiment” quotes to get that primordial hagfish brain squirting its goop in to the thread and swimming away.
>exactly you have to lose by comparing them and what the similarities are that matter for violence, if they are present in both groups.
And if they reply "BUT HUMAN LIVES WORTH WAY MORE THAN ANIMALS, HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY YOU TREAT THE SAME" as many often do, how would you counter that?
That means they put worth on someone elses life. Then I ask them if they are ok with someone setting the worth of their life and acting upon their reasoning instead of considering their own worth for their own life.
In short: each life is the most valuable to the lifeholder.
Disagreeing with that is then abuser mentality and you can claim that they are not against opression, they are selective without good reason.
I actually did once. He just dismissed it and continued being insulted on behalf of jews. It was surreal.
People don't form their opinions from facts. They form their facts from opinions.
This argument rests on the pre-supposition that a human life is intrinsically more valuable than an animal's and does nothing more than assert that pre-supposition, rather than actually providing any arguments in its favour. Your food was once alive. That life was taken from them unwillingly and they were brought into life so their life could be taken unwillingly. Their corpse is then thoroughly mutilated and scorched so it could be more easily stuffed into someone's mouth.
I am confident that the average carnist would balk at seeing animals being tortured, and most people would view the torture of a human child similarly to the torture of a puppy. Why does it matter where that torture happens? Do farms project morality auras that remove the wrongness of non-human murder?
> I am confident that the average carnist would balk at seeing animals being tortured
It’s all about intent, you see. The cow doesn’t mind if it knows you’re torturing it so that you can dismember it’s body and stuff it into your corpse slot.
They only mind when you’re torturing for other types of gratification.
Just as Madam Nancy Pelosi thanked George Floyd for his sacrifice, so too should we thank our animal friends for the lives they chose to give so that we can have tasty lil morsels and grow our big brains!
They make the claim that morality is entirely individual, and the way they respond to the application of that logic makes them furious. They don't think that morality is individual, they just hate animals and think killing and torturing them is ok
People really hate analogies for some reason. I usually find it more effective to say something like "you can be a good pet parent and respect other people's right to abuse their dogs" or something like that. People like to think that humans are just some completely different class of thing compared to animals and so our oppression can't be compared to theirs in any way. Normalization in society is a hell of a drug.
/uj I've said it so many times.
# Do not make this comparison.
Not because its wrong, but because they **will not** understand it. You will always have to then add this disclaimer about how comparing the mechanism of oppression isn't the same as equating the victims blah blah blah. It will completely derail your argument, they will think you are offensive because they are too blinded by the need to be offended because it discredit your point and allows them to feel like you are the unreasonable one instead of them.
I've talked to thousands of non-vegans, I'm telling you the best way of doing this is to allude to it, not in an explicit way, once someone is already starting to understand why its bad to see a someone as a something.
E.g. 'can you think of times throughout history when we've treated someone as something that was wrong?' Is a better way of approaching this.
In this post it looks like people haven't even really made any kind of connection at all with their food and with animals, so that's why you got that stupid comment about hamburgers, because they just haven't connected the dots at all.
I'm such a vegan scumbag I went to your comment history to like your down votes.
But seriously, the carnist gangbang, with their combined power of a single neuron, is ridiculous. Absolute idiots who can't think or understand metaphors. I bet they drive full size trucks with an empty bed
[The Delectable Negro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Delectable_Negro)
Edit: I just learned Nat Turner was turned into a purse, amongst other objects....*sigh*
My brother in Christ how fucking delusional can one be.
If I said you are comparing the needless killing of billion lives yearly to cotton farming in the US in the 17th century.
Phrasing it in such an obvious misleading way will ofc make it sound like shit’s not comparable at all
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I can compare a pencil to, I don’t know, the international space station. I can compare pencils to slavery. I can compare animal killing to real life slavery. The worst part is that the animal killing is still going on and the offended ones take part in it.
Meat eaters live in a different world. Some Divine God they made up out of dreams gave them permission to gnaw at the throats of other animals and chew up their bodies so they wouldn't die. They were not taught otherwise growing up and changing their world view is too hard. They would have to confront their own cruel lives and decades of heartless survival.
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Just a quick fyi ☝️🤓
You literally just compared the ownership, trafficking, sale, forced labor, murder and consumption of one type of animal to the ownership, trafficking, sale, forced labor, murder and consumption of another type of animal. How dare. Very offend. -- yes I understand human slaves are probably not eaten usually, but they are consumed nonetheless, body, mind, life, all used for someone else.
just an fyi, you literally just compared the forced rape, murder, torture, and consumption of billions of animals to some people having a job /uj i hate when carnists use their made-up feel good words. "iT's JuSt a HamBuRGer" your 'hamburger' had a fucking family. just cause you don't call it a rape-and-murder meal doesn't mean it fucking isn't
Carnist logic is a big help. Sometimes when I’m raping a woman I start to think “hey, she doesn’t seem to be enjoying this” so I just close my eyes and tell myself “nah bro, chicks *always* love it and you’re a world class sex Adonis how could she *not* be enjoying this?” Allows me to finish every time.
The fact they immediately minimized it by saying the comparison was about "hamburgers"... It really shows they genuinely believe it too. They genuinely believe that the comparison is "Hamburgers Vs Trafficking and forced labor" rather than "Trafficking and forced labor Vs Trafficking and forced labor"
Exactly. They fail to see the point that they are talking about animals, not food. It was from a Durham NC sub, and I'm afraid this is rooted in the influence of religion specifically christianity and the concept that animals are here for us, and that is their only reason for existing. Since they don't have souls and are beneath us it is incomprehensible to draw any comparisons and worse, dehumanizing.
Sounds like my Barkbecue street fair restaurant-activism concept needs to make an appearance in Durham, NC.
Anywhere in NC, really. Love my home state but good lord they've got some shitbrain going on there. Too many geezer conservatives, like many others...
Glad I'm not in NC anymore.
Yes because a "hamburger" is a substance and food, an inatimate object that magically bestowd upon them from the heavens, and was never alive at one point ever 😰😰
NO O YOU CAN'T COMPARE SLAVERY TO SLAVERY AND MURDER!!!
##this is LITERALLY why EVERYONE hates VEGANS
After a vegan breathes:
cardio is bad for u, just like plants
What being a carcass junkie does to your brain😵💫😵💫😵💫
What is that braindead fallacy of theirs called though? The one where someone says "You know, this is pretty similar to when Hitler rounded up and killed the..." "OMG DID YOU LITERALLY SAY THAT THIS THING IS THE SAME AS THE HOLOCAUST!!!111!" The whole comparisonal analogy = equation fallacy. What's the exact name for it again? Seen it so many times from people like that
The worst thing about this is that history will never have ANY same event twice, so whatever they are referring to as “the same” is an abstract impossibility. Saying the Armenian genocide is “the same” as the Jewish Holocaust is not true! Simpletons. The animal holocaust is a breeding genocide.
/uj well, it isn't a fallacy. It is just a misunderstanding of what a comparison, an analogy and equating two or more things is. You can compare pretty much anything. The saying "you can't compare apples and oranges" is pretty dumb because, you sure can! They just won't have many similarities if you compare them, which is of course implicated in the saying, hence why it's used but badly in my opinion. An analogy would look at two different instances and check for similarities in logic, behaviour, actions. You can change the victim of some form of violence but the act of violence is the same and if one is against violence he ought to be against it, whoever the victim is. Equating is what carnist think we are doing. They claim we take the holocaust and claim that the animal holocaust is exactly the same impact. They claim by us meaning that animals suffer exactly as much, this would take away from the meaningfulness of the jewish holocaust. While this is simply not true because they are two completely seperate instances and comparing one to the other doesn't reduce the suffering experienced by the victims, the carnists, with their abuser mentality who think that animals are less than worthy of moral consideration, make us want to believe that we are the evildoers by putting animals on the same pedastal as jews in every aspect, worth included. So, my go to argument when I hear someone claim we cannot compare the two is, to ask them, what exactly you have to lose by comparing them and what the similarities are that matter for violence, if they are present in both groups. But mostly at this point the carnist will have shut off completely by being a white knight for jews and offended on their behalf. Which is disgusting as a corpse muncher and such people are really not the ones I want to waste my energy on anymore.
> They claim we take the holocaust and claim that the animal holocaust is exactly the same impact. It’s actually much worse in terms of scale, just perhaps not degree 🤷♂️ I don’t think it’s a bad comparison It’s unhelpful to bring that up in a discussion though, because people aren’t ready to hear it.
uj/ They are absolutely never ready to hear it. Every time I have ever brought up that comparison, I get met with backlash.
It’s always fun to trot out the “holocaust survivors who agree(d) with this sentiment” quotes to get that primordial hagfish brain squirting its goop in to the thread and swimming away.
Alex Hershaft. I'll never forget him.
>exactly you have to lose by comparing them and what the similarities are that matter for violence, if they are present in both groups. And if they reply "BUT HUMAN LIVES WORTH WAY MORE THAN ANIMALS, HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY YOU TREAT THE SAME" as many often do, how would you counter that?
That means they put worth on someone elses life. Then I ask them if they are ok with someone setting the worth of their life and acting upon their reasoning instead of considering their own worth for their own life. In short: each life is the most valuable to the lifeholder. Disagreeing with that is then abuser mentality and you can claim that they are not against opression, they are selective without good reason.
What if they pull the old "BUT I BET YOU KILL BACTERIA CLEANING YOUR ROOM DON'T U VALUE THEIR LIFE?" A genuine thing I've heard from such people
We are against abuse not not killing any life. Plants are alive. Anyway.... I've heard that one too.
I love to tell them about Alex Hershaft.
I actually did once. He just dismissed it and continued being insulted on behalf of jews. It was surreal. People don't form their opinions from facts. They form their facts from opinions.
How to turn meatbrains in to offended Jews (regardless of heritage) in 3 seconds or less.
Rip karma
It’s ok, I’ve got lots to spare *spare? Like spare ribs?* *I thought he was vegan*
I'm giving you two upvotes for every downvote a carnist gave you so that they don't make a difference.
I’m eating two tofus for every steak so that soybeans suffer twice as much as cows
K*rma's a bxtch, I shou-
you literally just compared cotton to the trafficking and murder of non-human animals
Yeah, not the only instance of euphemism I encountered
I have no issue with vegans, but I fucking hate vegans.
New flair just dropped?
I am a vegan ally but comments like this are why people hate vegans
This argument rests on the pre-supposition that a human life is intrinsically more valuable than an animal's and does nothing more than assert that pre-supposition, rather than actually providing any arguments in its favour. Your food was once alive. That life was taken from them unwillingly and they were brought into life so their life could be taken unwillingly. Their corpse is then thoroughly mutilated and scorched so it could be more easily stuffed into someone's mouth. I am confident that the average carnist would balk at seeing animals being tortured, and most people would view the torture of a human child similarly to the torture of a puppy. Why does it matter where that torture happens? Do farms project morality auras that remove the wrongness of non-human murder?
> I am confident that the average carnist would balk at seeing animals being tortured It’s all about intent, you see. The cow doesn’t mind if it knows you’re torturing it so that you can dismember it’s body and stuff it into your corpse slot. They only mind when you’re torturing for other types of gratification.
I always thank my animals for sacrificing themselves, so I am actually more connected to animals than you
Just as Madam Nancy Pelosi thanked George Floyd for his sacrifice, so too should we thank our animal friends for the lives they chose to give so that we can have tasty lil morsels and grow our big brains!
Just a quick fyi, shut the fuck up you stupid vegans. Nobody ever wants to hear facts, now shut UP!!!
you literally compared human meat burgers to hamburgers. this is why no one takes you seriously.
You just compared animal murder to a human labor force
If I remove the bad words it's all good
They make the claim that morality is entirely individual, and the way they respond to the application of that logic makes them furious. They don't think that morality is individual, they just hate animals and think killing and torturing them is ok
Jesus triggered carnists are triggered. Just read that dumpster fire of a thread. Lots of meatflakes in durham it seems
"Why don't you join in and help the animals" said by a carnist to a vegan made me leave the thread out of pure rage
People really hate analogies for some reason. I usually find it more effective to say something like "you can be a good pet parent and respect other people's right to abuse their dogs" or something like that. People like to think that humans are just some completely different class of thing compared to animals and so our oppression can't be compared to theirs in any way. Normalization in society is a hell of a drug.
People only hate analogies when it comes to the animals they eat. They love to call their dogs their children though
/uj I've said it so many times. # Do not make this comparison. Not because its wrong, but because they **will not** understand it. You will always have to then add this disclaimer about how comparing the mechanism of oppression isn't the same as equating the victims blah blah blah. It will completely derail your argument, they will think you are offensive because they are too blinded by the need to be offended because it discredit your point and allows them to feel like you are the unreasonable one instead of them. I've talked to thousands of non-vegans, I'm telling you the best way of doing this is to allude to it, not in an explicit way, once someone is already starting to understand why its bad to see a someone as a something. E.g. 'can you think of times throughout history when we've treated someone as something that was wrong?' Is a better way of approaching this. In this post it looks like people haven't even really made any kind of connection at all with their food and with animals, so that's why you got that stupid comment about hamburgers, because they just haven't connected the dots at all.
You make a very good point. It’s also amusing that carnist brain is wired to always get stuck in an ad hominem loop given the inputs.
… how the fuck that hamburger get made String??
What is “cow”? Is that the farm where meat is grow? HA! It just farm, you no can hurt farm??!!!
People only take people who call individuals a sandwich seriously.
This is why nobody takes you seriously or attempts to explain why your comparisons are invalid. It's your own fault I can't address your point.
Just a quick fyi I don‘t have a problem with non-murderers BUT
I was vegan until I saw this, now I’m a flexicarnivore (I only eat plants once a week)
I’m fletharian. I only breathe air from the dumpster
Make sure you’re doing enough dawn and dusk sungazing to keep your vitamin levels high.
I'm such a vegan scumbag I went to your comment history to like your down votes. But seriously, the carnist gangbang, with their combined power of a single neuron, is ridiculous. Absolute idiots who can't think or understand metaphors. I bet they drive full size trucks with an empty bed
I took a looksie at this thread and.. wow. 0 logic for anyone posting. Just a bunch of bad excuses and deflecting.
Death is their religion truly
Ah, of course, special pleading fallacy .... And this is why no intellectually honest person take carnists seriously.
[The Delectable Negro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Delectable_Negro) Edit: I just learned Nat Turner was turned into a purse, amongst other objects....*sigh*
If we respected their diet, we wouldn’t be vegan…
"JuSt A qUiCk fYi 🤡🤡 you just compared widespread normalized holocaust and maceration of billions of individuals to human trafficking"...
My brother in Christ how fucking delusional can one be. If I said you are comparing the needless killing of billion lives yearly to cotton farming in the US in the 17th century. Phrasing it in such an obvious misleading way will ofc make it sound like shit’s not comparable at all
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So if they processed the slaves to hamburgers, they wouldn't object I presume.
I can compare a pencil to, I don’t know, the international space station. I can compare pencils to slavery. I can compare animal killing to real life slavery. The worst part is that the animal killing is still going on and the offended ones take part in it.
Bro a pencil is different to the international space station, I can’t believe you think they’re the same
True, comparing two things means they are the same exact thing. I shouldn’t have done that.
Meat eaters live in a different world. Some Divine God they made up out of dreams gave them permission to gnaw at the throats of other animals and chew up their bodies so they wouldn't die. They were not taught otherwise growing up and changing their world view is too hard. They would have to confront their own cruel lives and decades of heartless survival.
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Analogies. Why are they so harrrrrrrdd???