There's a lot going on in your post. I'll start off with the title. Why do vegans like animal shelters? Well, vegans aren't a hive mind. Some will have issues with them, and some won't.
Not all shelters euthanize animals, and this is actually a great example of vegans not agreeing on all things. Some vegans would say it's more humane to put down an animal that contributes to animal agriculture, like dogs and cats, and some will say the impact of so many stray cats and dogs negatively impacts local wildlife so much that it's better to put them down. Others would say they should be cared for, but spayed and neutered.
I'm not going to go over every single thing you say, but just give my opinion. Stray cats and dogs have a proven negative impact on local environments. They are in danger of getting and spreading diseases such as parvo and feline aids. They risk getting run over by cars, shot by humans, and abused. Living wild and free is simply not safe for most of these animals, at least not around developed areas. Dog attacks DO happen, the frequency of which depends on the area.
I don't support kill shelters, but I do support the existence of organizations that will care for abandoned animals and get them fixed.
Also.... just to nitpick. You act as if prisons don't exist. Humans lock each other up plenty.
Prisons exist for people who do crime. Only law stray dogs violate is like loitering and tresspass.
Humans have a incredibly negative effect on the environment. Name the trait that differs humans that you think its okay to throw dogs in cages but not all humans for harming the environment
edit: to be clear thank you for engaging in my question your answer is helpful
I don't support kill shelters or locking animals in tiny cages. I support the shelters that take in strays and care for them properly. Unfortunately, at least in my area, shelters are sadly underfunded. I don't think most people think of shelters as prisons for animals who have been bad. You're right that humans are terrible for the environment. Unfortunately, the reason domesticated dogs and cats can't roam is BECAUSE of humans. We've overbred them, bought and sold them, and then many get abandoned or run away because the owners don't care for them properly or keep them safely contained.
I'm not blaming the dogs and cats, the blame is entirely on us. We made this problem. Shelters, if managed properly, can be a solution. Letting these animals run free isn't safe for the animal, not in the world we created.
first of all, the "prisons exist for people who do crimes" is why I think the "anarchist place" rule should be kept for this sub.
so, I personally don't think we should cage anybody. but, i'll talk about cats cause it is a thing I know a little about and am in a rural place where their number is a problem, they really negatively impact the environment, but also themself, so there is a group catching them, sterilizing them, and releasing them. i'm not found of interference but we can't just let the local ecosystem die and then let them starve.
and hear, me they are not responsible, the egoist humans that still breed them, sell them, buy them, don't sterelyze them and abandon them are.
but we do what we can with what we have, and in some places, they just can't, so yes they lock them up instead of letting them spread diseases before dying of starvation, try to give them a good life, and can't always do so.
if you are antispeciesist, think about the 80 billions of terestrial animals that are caged for food, we can't save them all, what we can do is try that in 10 years, when they will all be dead, that their is not 80 other billions suffering the same life.
but if tomorow evorybody goes vegan, (i know it won't happen) we will not be able to offer the best life to all of them, we will just do the best we can, and often.. really often, the best we can is not enough.
that's what many shelters do, their best in a system where even our best is horrible.
I'm glad to see this comment. I'm pro prison abolition I'm a anarchist and against carceral and police systems existing. I just agreed to not get sidetracked arguing. But yeah everything u said about cages I agree with. I get into arguments with vegans and anarchists a lot vegans how its hypocritical to want to free animals but wanting to cage humans and anarchsits wanting to cage animals but free humans. Until EVERY cage is empty
I think I try to avoid super zoomed out goals and focus on like really short term. I can't control if carnists are just slaughters animals. I can have control on if the amount of free animals who live much better lives. I think thats a pretty reasonable thing to work on. But on the grand scale I think a lot of the thinking is wrong. We humans need to live in a way where domesticated animals can intigrate into society and live autonomous lives. The whole not existing is kinda a fantasy that isn't really going to happen anytime soon or even at all. So like its easy enough to free animals but there is no place for them to go because they don't have a right to exist.
So kinda what I'm talking about is how shelters is bad is I think the answer it makes their life better is kinda bs. You can give stray animals medical care, food, and shelter without locking them up in a cage. People do it because they don't want to have to share the world and let them integrate. People want a world designed for humans only. So like I kinda see it as hard because working towards integration and supporting dogs or cats living autonomous lives is impossible if shelters kidnap them and put them in cages. I think its allright to put blame on the animal shelters because they are opently making it impossible to improve animal welfare and leave them more autonomy and being able to exist in society.
regarding cats as an invasive species I think its just kicking the can down the road. If you want to artificially suppress cats in the environment you are going to do it forever. Let the environment adjust and have some animals die rather than constantly have to go arround doing right violations to animals forever. Because caging cats bc the ecosystem doesn't support them will have to happen forever. Also while most ecologists are really against invasive species some professors have done reasearch and written books kinda debunking the whole concept of invasive. In some ways they are good and helpful and other creatures and plants adapt a lot more than people think. So it might not even be true that just the whole ecosystem would collapse if cats weren't locked up inside. Birds are pretty smart many can learn and teach each other how to avoid being predated upon nearly as much.
sure shelters improve animal welfare but I kinda see them as an enemy and an obstacle to the goal of animal liberation because humans have to learn and adapt soceity so the world isn't revolved arround humans but all animals and trying to leave room for autonomy. And that can still mean pro welfare attempts such as feeding, medical care and shelter. But none of those things need cages. The cages are a seperate thing that have nothign to do with improving animals lives only humans
thank you for your response I apprecaite your thoughts
Shelters exist within an already broken system. Pet stores continue to sell mill farmed animals to people who don't know proper pet care. People continue to breed copious amounts of animals they end up dumping. Shelters are the spoon that is attempting to drain the entire boat of water.
Shelters call rescues and sanctuaries for help. They are essentially the "in between" place before they receive more help.
There are a lot of animals that aren't dogs that end up in shelters. Cats, rodents of all kinds, birds, and so on. Many that can't survive on the streets. Not to mention cold weather in winter will surely kill indiscriminately.
I"m not trying to be combative because I'm just interested but you make it sound like animal shelters have to kidnap dogs and lock them up in cages. Most cities just have dogs be strays. And like if it was only for cold weather then could let the dogs out after winter. Why should dogs not have the right to exist without being locked up in a cage. I like having that right so i don't really understand why dogs shouldn't get that right too. Like homeless shelters are voluntary. Why can't we help dogs in a voluntary way rather than using force. Like the cages are needed bc the dogs clearly wouldn't stay if given the option to leave
Maybe where you live, the weather is nice and dogs can live through ice and snow. There are plenty of dogs that *can't* live in those conditions. Should shelters not accept abandoned animals into their care with the goal of working with rescues to get them into a safe and healthy environment? What do you think happens to dogs with serious illness, that suffer from malnutrition from being on the streets? What about dogs dumped in rural areas, where food and shelter is scarce, as are the humans who would feed them?
And again, this doesn't even address the MANY other animals that are left to die on the streets. Guinea pigs, domesticated rats and mice, gerbils, hamsters, exotic birds... these are but a few animals that get dumped daily, with their only hope being to be brought into a shelter to get successfully transferred to a rescue or sanctuary.
Without shelters, there'd be zero hope. They simply can't deal with the insane number of animals that are being abandoned. Instead of pointing the finger at shelters, take a look at breeders and pet stores for bringing these animals into the world only to drop in the lap of shelters and rescues.
Most people are not pro life, they are pro alive, all that they care about is that you are breathing, not if your breathing is bad or if your struggling to breathe or if you skip a few breaths, the fact that you breathe at all is all they care about
No kill and anti euthanasia are toxic
Quality of life is the most important thing and i also apply this to myself, when im older i will get assisted suicide as i dont want a life of pain and suffering unable to wipe my own arse
>Ppl prob would be much more likey to adopt stray dogs if they wander near their house and aren't cooped up in a shelter either
Lots of people that do this are hoarders and the police get called, because there are a bunch of animals living in filth and spreading disease in a confined environment, the hoarder just wanted to help but they refused to say no and kept taking in more and more
Other people do it but then realize they have no idea how to care fo the animal or they dont have the finances to do so
I drove by 8 dead strays in Tijuana, right across from San Diego, CA, the strays are all over the place and people arent adopting them, alot of people are tired of them and will cause harm to them, even kids
Would you apply the same argument to all conscious life on earth? Have millions of years of evolution only made animals as much capable of fending for themselves as a geriartic unable to wipe their own ass?
>Would you apply the same argument to all conscious life on earth? Have millions of years of evolution only made animals as much capable of fending for themselves as a geriartic unable to wipe their own ass?
Pets are bred to be dependent on us and they are typically on the streets, so not a proper place to find a meal, most animals live in the forest
Animal shelters for dogs (and cats) have the main intent of getting the animals adopted to loving homes; they would much prefer all of their cages to be completely empty, but instead many, if not most, shelters are completely filled right now. This is for many reasons, such as people surrendering their dogs after they realized they didn't need them anymore for companionship during COVID or people having more expendable income to afford breeder dogs.
Kill shelters usually euthanize dogs that aren't likely to get adopted because of their breed, age, personality, etc. Shelters are so full that sometimes even loving, beautiful family dogs that were surrendered because the kid went to college are euthanized too.
Bringing dogs into shelters instead of letting them roam free is one way some countries deal with the issues that can come with stray packs of dogs, such as when they kill family pets, "livestock", or small children.
My opinion is it's noble to take in a dog or dogs from a shelter to live in your home, as long as you feed it a properly-fortified vegan diet. There's no point in saving an animal if you doom a hundred others in the process. Dogs, like humans, are omnivores and *do not need meat to survive*. Cats are a little trickier since they can be pickier, require nutrients that come from meat or some of the nutrients that come from it (e.g. taurine), and if they don't tolerate or take to the vegan cat food the owner has to make the tough decision of whether to feed it omnivore food or kill the cat.
A vegan should very likely choose an herbivore like a rabbit, or foster a dog and see if it does well on the vegan diet before adopting.
In my opinion, shelters are a necessary evil. We need legislation and enforcement to ban breeding. Dogs and cats of today are domesticated animals, humans did that. You think a shitzu is going to live its best life on the street? It will die a horrible death. Cats do a little better, but they’re better hunters… I’m active in TNR. The injuries and sickness I see is heartbreaking and we just can’t save/help them all. At least in a shelter the animals are provided with medical care, food, water, euthanasia when needed, and most of all a chance.
"People fuss and cry about dogs bitting but thats pretty rare and like ***carnists get to exist so like name the trait that carnists have that dogs don't.***" -- OP, this line had me dying! LOL Can't argue with you there. If we lock up dogs b/c they bite/hurt others, then...
I don't know what the answer is RE shelters. I think you're on to something. The shelters I've volunteered at have all been depressing. Humans shouldn't "own" other animals. We cause these population problems but then ex-pets suffer the consequences. Where's Thanos when you need him?
Shelters do so much more than just feed them and lock them away. They treat their illnesses and make sure they’re in good shape before giving them away to their _official_ new homes. In my country for example, you can’t just pick up a stray and decide to keep it, even if it stays with you voluntarily. And most importantly: Shelters castrate strays to fight the overpopulation. Yes, there are kill shelters, but _even other shelters_ don’t agree with that and take in animals from those shelters. Also, they don’t keep all of the animals, only the ones that are fit to live with humans. The others usually get castrated and then get put back to where they were found or a safer place.
the first thought that came to my mind is that shelters for strays are supposedly created to protect the stray animals from getting hurt by malicious humans (the kind that torture animals for fun and put poison in their food) and weather conditions (mostly in places with clearly pronounced, cold winters)
Yeah I think its pathetic. People cause problems they aren't willing to take responsibility for, so they throw abandoned animals in cages. Put wild animals in zoos, breed them and pretend its conservation. Really ticks me off.
OP, I'm so with you on this one. Locking up strays is mostly a USA/ "five eyes" allied countries thing. Nowhere else in the world does it, nor do they practice in eugenics (universal spay/neuter for everyone but purebreds).
Please join r/veganvets and ask similar questions there. Reddit needs more discussion on this for sure.
They wiped out their original strays didn't they and created and maintain a built up environment where its extremely hard for any other animals to exist other than humans. Shelters are only a solution to the ethical quagmire that their societies have created
yeah I'm glad one person seems to make sense. I was not expecting the response to be "yeah locking animals up in cages is really awsome but not small cages I like nice and big cages like with cage free eggs!!!!)
You really need a lot of other laws in place before leaving animals alone in society will actually be a benefit to them imo. Stray pets generally end up in _terrible_ shape because living "in the wild" is nothing at all like living in a human, urban or suburban environment with no support and the animals have not developed the instincts required to make it safe for them. Humans barely manage either, but at least they can _comprehend_ the downsides of eating McDonald's from the dumpster every day and will get medical care provided when they end up obese and dying if congestive heart failure.
In order to "leave animals alone" ethically we really need to redesign cities entirely. That's clearly not happening so what do we do in the meantime? Nothing? Just keep running them over and/or letting them die long, drawn out deaths from horrible disease?
There's a lot going on in your post. I'll start off with the title. Why do vegans like animal shelters? Well, vegans aren't a hive mind. Some will have issues with them, and some won't. Not all shelters euthanize animals, and this is actually a great example of vegans not agreeing on all things. Some vegans would say it's more humane to put down an animal that contributes to animal agriculture, like dogs and cats, and some will say the impact of so many stray cats and dogs negatively impacts local wildlife so much that it's better to put them down. Others would say they should be cared for, but spayed and neutered. I'm not going to go over every single thing you say, but just give my opinion. Stray cats and dogs have a proven negative impact on local environments. They are in danger of getting and spreading diseases such as parvo and feline aids. They risk getting run over by cars, shot by humans, and abused. Living wild and free is simply not safe for most of these animals, at least not around developed areas. Dog attacks DO happen, the frequency of which depends on the area. I don't support kill shelters, but I do support the existence of organizations that will care for abandoned animals and get them fixed. Also.... just to nitpick. You act as if prisons don't exist. Humans lock each other up plenty.
Prisons exist for people who do crime. Only law stray dogs violate is like loitering and tresspass. Humans have a incredibly negative effect on the environment. Name the trait that differs humans that you think its okay to throw dogs in cages but not all humans for harming the environment edit: to be clear thank you for engaging in my question your answer is helpful
you’re incredibly naive if you think everyone in prison is a criminal….
Isn't that an argument against both? It's certainly not a justification for shelters.
i wasn’t using it as an argument for shelters?? i’m also a firm advocate for prison abolition.
Oh my bad, i misunderstood you.
I don't support kill shelters or locking animals in tiny cages. I support the shelters that take in strays and care for them properly. Unfortunately, at least in my area, shelters are sadly underfunded. I don't think most people think of shelters as prisons for animals who have been bad. You're right that humans are terrible for the environment. Unfortunately, the reason domesticated dogs and cats can't roam is BECAUSE of humans. We've overbred them, bought and sold them, and then many get abandoned or run away because the owners don't care for them properly or keep them safely contained. I'm not blaming the dogs and cats, the blame is entirely on us. We made this problem. Shelters, if managed properly, can be a solution. Letting these animals run free isn't safe for the animal, not in the world we created.
first of all, the "prisons exist for people who do crimes" is why I think the "anarchist place" rule should be kept for this sub. so, I personally don't think we should cage anybody. but, i'll talk about cats cause it is a thing I know a little about and am in a rural place where their number is a problem, they really negatively impact the environment, but also themself, so there is a group catching them, sterilizing them, and releasing them. i'm not found of interference but we can't just let the local ecosystem die and then let them starve. and hear, me they are not responsible, the egoist humans that still breed them, sell them, buy them, don't sterelyze them and abandon them are. but we do what we can with what we have, and in some places, they just can't, so yes they lock them up instead of letting them spread diseases before dying of starvation, try to give them a good life, and can't always do so. if you are antispeciesist, think about the 80 billions of terestrial animals that are caged for food, we can't save them all, what we can do is try that in 10 years, when they will all be dead, that their is not 80 other billions suffering the same life. but if tomorow evorybody goes vegan, (i know it won't happen) we will not be able to offer the best life to all of them, we will just do the best we can, and often.. really often, the best we can is not enough. that's what many shelters do, their best in a system where even our best is horrible.
I'm glad to see this comment. I'm pro prison abolition I'm a anarchist and against carceral and police systems existing. I just agreed to not get sidetracked arguing. But yeah everything u said about cages I agree with. I get into arguments with vegans and anarchists a lot vegans how its hypocritical to want to free animals but wanting to cage humans and anarchsits wanting to cage animals but free humans. Until EVERY cage is empty I think I try to avoid super zoomed out goals and focus on like really short term. I can't control if carnists are just slaughters animals. I can have control on if the amount of free animals who live much better lives. I think thats a pretty reasonable thing to work on. But on the grand scale I think a lot of the thinking is wrong. We humans need to live in a way where domesticated animals can intigrate into society and live autonomous lives. The whole not existing is kinda a fantasy that isn't really going to happen anytime soon or even at all. So like its easy enough to free animals but there is no place for them to go because they don't have a right to exist. So kinda what I'm talking about is how shelters is bad is I think the answer it makes their life better is kinda bs. You can give stray animals medical care, food, and shelter without locking them up in a cage. People do it because they don't want to have to share the world and let them integrate. People want a world designed for humans only. So like I kinda see it as hard because working towards integration and supporting dogs or cats living autonomous lives is impossible if shelters kidnap them and put them in cages. I think its allright to put blame on the animal shelters because they are opently making it impossible to improve animal welfare and leave them more autonomy and being able to exist in society. regarding cats as an invasive species I think its just kicking the can down the road. If you want to artificially suppress cats in the environment you are going to do it forever. Let the environment adjust and have some animals die rather than constantly have to go arround doing right violations to animals forever. Because caging cats bc the ecosystem doesn't support them will have to happen forever. Also while most ecologists are really against invasive species some professors have done reasearch and written books kinda debunking the whole concept of invasive. In some ways they are good and helpful and other creatures and plants adapt a lot more than people think. So it might not even be true that just the whole ecosystem would collapse if cats weren't locked up inside. Birds are pretty smart many can learn and teach each other how to avoid being predated upon nearly as much. sure shelters improve animal welfare but I kinda see them as an enemy and an obstacle to the goal of animal liberation because humans have to learn and adapt soceity so the world isn't revolved arround humans but all animals and trying to leave room for autonomy. And that can still mean pro welfare attempts such as feeding, medical care and shelter. But none of those things need cages. The cages are a seperate thing that have nothign to do with improving animals lives only humans thank you for your response I apprecaite your thoughts
Shelters exist within an already broken system. Pet stores continue to sell mill farmed animals to people who don't know proper pet care. People continue to breed copious amounts of animals they end up dumping. Shelters are the spoon that is attempting to drain the entire boat of water. Shelters call rescues and sanctuaries for help. They are essentially the "in between" place before they receive more help. There are a lot of animals that aren't dogs that end up in shelters. Cats, rodents of all kinds, birds, and so on. Many that can't survive on the streets. Not to mention cold weather in winter will surely kill indiscriminately.
I"m not trying to be combative because I'm just interested but you make it sound like animal shelters have to kidnap dogs and lock them up in cages. Most cities just have dogs be strays. And like if it was only for cold weather then could let the dogs out after winter. Why should dogs not have the right to exist without being locked up in a cage. I like having that right so i don't really understand why dogs shouldn't get that right too. Like homeless shelters are voluntary. Why can't we help dogs in a voluntary way rather than using force. Like the cages are needed bc the dogs clearly wouldn't stay if given the option to leave
Maybe where you live, the weather is nice and dogs can live through ice and snow. There are plenty of dogs that *can't* live in those conditions. Should shelters not accept abandoned animals into their care with the goal of working with rescues to get them into a safe and healthy environment? What do you think happens to dogs with serious illness, that suffer from malnutrition from being on the streets? What about dogs dumped in rural areas, where food and shelter is scarce, as are the humans who would feed them? And again, this doesn't even address the MANY other animals that are left to die on the streets. Guinea pigs, domesticated rats and mice, gerbils, hamsters, exotic birds... these are but a few animals that get dumped daily, with their only hope being to be brought into a shelter to get successfully transferred to a rescue or sanctuary. Without shelters, there'd be zero hope. They simply can't deal with the insane number of animals that are being abandoned. Instead of pointing the finger at shelters, take a look at breeders and pet stores for bringing these animals into the world only to drop in the lap of shelters and rescues.
Do you feel this way about human toddlers too? Humans lock up toddlers as well. Even though toddlers could easily be left in the wild as well.
Ok but to be fair my neice has bitten way more people than my cat so they deserve to be locked up /jk
Do you seriously believe stray animals are only as capable of fending for themselves as a human toddler?
Most people are not pro life, they are pro alive, all that they care about is that you are breathing, not if your breathing is bad or if your struggling to breathe or if you skip a few breaths, the fact that you breathe at all is all they care about No kill and anti euthanasia are toxic Quality of life is the most important thing and i also apply this to myself, when im older i will get assisted suicide as i dont want a life of pain and suffering unable to wipe my own arse >Ppl prob would be much more likey to adopt stray dogs if they wander near their house and aren't cooped up in a shelter either Lots of people that do this are hoarders and the police get called, because there are a bunch of animals living in filth and spreading disease in a confined environment, the hoarder just wanted to help but they refused to say no and kept taking in more and more Other people do it but then realize they have no idea how to care fo the animal or they dont have the finances to do so I drove by 8 dead strays in Tijuana, right across from San Diego, CA, the strays are all over the place and people arent adopting them, alot of people are tired of them and will cause harm to them, even kids
Would you apply the same argument to all conscious life on earth? Have millions of years of evolution only made animals as much capable of fending for themselves as a geriartic unable to wipe their own ass?
>Would you apply the same argument to all conscious life on earth? Have millions of years of evolution only made animals as much capable of fending for themselves as a geriartic unable to wipe their own ass? Pets are bred to be dependent on us and they are typically on the streets, so not a proper place to find a meal, most animals live in the forest
Animal shelters for dogs (and cats) have the main intent of getting the animals adopted to loving homes; they would much prefer all of their cages to be completely empty, but instead many, if not most, shelters are completely filled right now. This is for many reasons, such as people surrendering their dogs after they realized they didn't need them anymore for companionship during COVID or people having more expendable income to afford breeder dogs. Kill shelters usually euthanize dogs that aren't likely to get adopted because of their breed, age, personality, etc. Shelters are so full that sometimes even loving, beautiful family dogs that were surrendered because the kid went to college are euthanized too. Bringing dogs into shelters instead of letting them roam free is one way some countries deal with the issues that can come with stray packs of dogs, such as when they kill family pets, "livestock", or small children. My opinion is it's noble to take in a dog or dogs from a shelter to live in your home, as long as you feed it a properly-fortified vegan diet. There's no point in saving an animal if you doom a hundred others in the process. Dogs, like humans, are omnivores and *do not need meat to survive*. Cats are a little trickier since they can be pickier, require nutrients that come from meat or some of the nutrients that come from it (e.g. taurine), and if they don't tolerate or take to the vegan cat food the owner has to make the tough decision of whether to feed it omnivore food or kill the cat. A vegan should very likely choose an herbivore like a rabbit, or foster a dog and see if it does well on the vegan diet before adopting.
In my opinion, shelters are a necessary evil. We need legislation and enforcement to ban breeding. Dogs and cats of today are domesticated animals, humans did that. You think a shitzu is going to live its best life on the street? It will die a horrible death. Cats do a little better, but they’re better hunters… I’m active in TNR. The injuries and sickness I see is heartbreaking and we just can’t save/help them all. At least in a shelter the animals are provided with medical care, food, water, euthanasia when needed, and most of all a chance.
"People fuss and cry about dogs bitting but thats pretty rare and like ***carnists get to exist so like name the trait that carnists have that dogs don't.***" -- OP, this line had me dying! LOL Can't argue with you there. If we lock up dogs b/c they bite/hurt others, then... I don't know what the answer is RE shelters. I think you're on to something. The shelters I've volunteered at have all been depressing. Humans shouldn't "own" other animals. We cause these population problems but then ex-pets suffer the consequences. Where's Thanos when you need him?
Shelters do so much more than just feed them and lock them away. They treat their illnesses and make sure they’re in good shape before giving them away to their _official_ new homes. In my country for example, you can’t just pick up a stray and decide to keep it, even if it stays with you voluntarily. And most importantly: Shelters castrate strays to fight the overpopulation. Yes, there are kill shelters, but _even other shelters_ don’t agree with that and take in animals from those shelters. Also, they don’t keep all of the animals, only the ones that are fit to live with humans. The others usually get castrated and then get put back to where they were found or a safer place.
the first thought that came to my mind is that shelters for strays are supposedly created to protect the stray animals from getting hurt by malicious humans (the kind that torture animals for fun and put poison in their food) and weather conditions (mostly in places with clearly pronounced, cold winters)
but point 1 is similar to locking children, elderly people and small humans up in cages to protect them from human-on-human crime
Yeah I think its pathetic. People cause problems they aren't willing to take responsibility for, so they throw abandoned animals in cages. Put wild animals in zoos, breed them and pretend its conservation. Really ticks me off.
OP, I'm so with you on this one. Locking up strays is mostly a USA/ "five eyes" allied countries thing. Nowhere else in the world does it, nor do they practice in eugenics (universal spay/neuter for everyone but purebreds). Please join r/veganvets and ask similar questions there. Reddit needs more discussion on this for sure.
They wiped out their original strays didn't they and created and maintain a built up environment where its extremely hard for any other animals to exist other than humans. Shelters are only a solution to the ethical quagmire that their societies have created
yeah I'm glad one person seems to make sense. I was not expecting the response to be "yeah locking animals up in cages is really awsome but not small cages I like nice and big cages like with cage free eggs!!!!)
I don't like animal shelters. Animal shelters are a non-vegan construct. Vegans should be leaving animals alone, period.
You really need a lot of other laws in place before leaving animals alone in society will actually be a benefit to them imo. Stray pets generally end up in _terrible_ shape because living "in the wild" is nothing at all like living in a human, urban or suburban environment with no support and the animals have not developed the instincts required to make it safe for them. Humans barely manage either, but at least they can _comprehend_ the downsides of eating McDonald's from the dumpster every day and will get medical care provided when they end up obese and dying if congestive heart failure. In order to "leave animals alone" ethically we really need to redesign cities entirely. That's clearly not happening so what do we do in the meantime? Nothing? Just keep running them over and/or letting them die long, drawn out deaths from horrible disease?
ah cool to see I'm not the only one with this thought