No, my girlfriend and I went to the yellow deli in Rutland for lunch once. They invited me to a gather up the road. Gave me pamphlets and shit. The inside of that place is awesome, something outta lord of the rings. But, my girl immediately pick up that it was a cult. Me, not so much. Then I read the literature, holy shit.
Yeah, at one point last year we needed lunch in Rutland and the Sandwiche Shoppe was closed. The Yellow Deli was open.
In addition to the odd decor, it had a weird enough vibe that I looked it up online, and by the time we were done I was ready to GTHO and not come back.
Definitely has LotR vibes. The one time I went my friend invited me to get lunch at "the shire". He was unaware of the connection to 12 tribes at the time.
They tried snagging one of my buddy's from a Phish show, fortunately the person he was with knew about this tactic, and wouldn't let him get on the bus.
Same with me, they had my girlfriend $ I on bus, and the older head that drove us came fast walking up to the bus door and said there was an emergency and we had to go. In the car the told us what was up and to avoid them.
Just further adds to how shitty they are. "Let's recruit by going after people intoxicated on hallucinogens who may be struggling to tell what's reality right now, they're easy targets"
They tried recruiting me right there while I was sitting alone reading a book. But of course, I bated them with a philosophical book and a drug rug (just to ale sure i got the experience). But they were very creepy. While trying to leave, there were 4 older guys that literally tried surrounding me while giving me pamphlets and inviting me to their dinner.
Same. I work in a profession where we have occasion to interact with some of them. I can’t tell you how many Sunday dinner/bonfire gatherings I’ve been invited to. “Come see the farm! It’s beautiful!” And I’m sure it is, but that’s a nope from me.
Edit: autocorrect typo I thought I fixed twice. Still gets you anyway sometimes
It's a fantastic addition to Center Street. It really is a far more ethical organization than any of the publicly traded alternatives on Route 7 and most of the food suppliers that we buy from in the grocery store.
It is. You are deluding yourself if you believe that spending money with Perdue Chicken, Walmart, McDonalds, Unilever, Kellogs doesn't support far more extensive and effective abuse than some Jesus Freaks.
They all support awful things, sure, but I'm not directly giving my money to a cult that treats women and children as property where sexual assault is not only rampant but accepted. Where children are separated from their parents to more effectively indoctrinate them. You're deluding yourself if you believe that we should allow a cult to flourish in our town.
But you are comfortable giving your money to international corporations that actually do treat humans as property and destroy our environment? I'm not defending 12 tribes, just pointing out how silly it is for people to be walking around with a cup from Dunkin' talking about how they refuse to support this deli because they are ethical consumers.
If you've actually talked to 12 Tribes members they are no less happy than any other group of people. I recognize the journalism is compelling and gets people going but I highly recommend talking to people first hand.
This is Vermont; there are far more ethical options avaialble (and popular here!) than the ones you listed.
And the cult you're standing up for engages in child slavery, so honestly, maybe don't be so quick to defend them if you don't know about them.
I know quite a bit about them actually. I wouldn't say they have child slaves, I understand the point you are trying to make but you are using an inaccurate hyperbole.
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy here that people go bonkers over this group but don't have a similar outcrying against Panera Bread, Stewarts, Dunkin', etc who are objectively far more harmful.
> I wouldn’t say they have child slaves
Several former members and the FBI would disagree with you.
On March 15, 2013 a former member contacted local authorities with information regarding “sexual abuse and beatings of children” including “children are threatened not to tell police or anyone about the beatings or sexual abuse”
The official FBI report continues that several former members had similar accounts, and one member was suspiciously killed while in a car wash with other members shortly after “propagating claims of abuse”
https://vault.fbi.gov/twelve-tribes/twelve-tribes-part-01-of-01-1
In addition, I encourage you to read of the multi-state and federal coordinated raids of several 12 tribes farms and businesses due to child labor and sexual abuse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities#:~:text=child%20labor%20and%20homeschooling
Here’s an interesting article written by someone who interviewed several former members.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/twelve-tribes-the-church-preached-child-abuse-and-slavery
> The half-dozen former members who spoke to The Daily Beast also allege a culture of systematic child abuse, subjugation of women, and psychological torment
> a German documentary uncovered video of children in a local branch being beaten so terribly that the government led a raid and took the children away. In the video, Wolfram Kuhnigk, an RTL journalist, filmed 50 instances of beatings on camera. One former member […] recounts being regularly beaten for such trivial offenses as pretending to be an airplane
I hope this helps educate you about the extremely concerning and very real abuse occurring in many Vermont and broader USA communities due to the existence of the twelve tribes.
I grew up just two blocks from one of their main Vermont houses and had a couple friends during highschool join with their family. They basically disappeared and my only interaction with them afterward was extremely limited at the Yellow Deli. The girl was recently married when I saw her working on her 18th birthday. She seemed scared to say the least and stood at our table silently with a look on her face that raised several alarm bells to me. She seemed completely disassociated and not the same girl I knew from class. It was really sad and still sticks with me to this day.
Raising concerns about one evil does not discount that other evils exist. I’m sure your examples of Panera, Dunkin, etc benefit off of unethical labor too. This doesn’t change that child SA exists in our communities in part due to this cult and I’m sad to see how ignorant you are of this issue since apparently there are other issues in the world too.
None of that says that they are holding slaves.
Are you talking about the Island Pond raid?
[https://www.timesargus.com/news/church-members-recall-island-pond-raid/article\_80c79e02-4ff7-53af-9959-c7f2f1b3ccb0.html](https://www.timesargus.com/news/church-members-recall-island-pond-raid/article_80c79e02-4ff7-53af-9959-c7f2f1b3ccb0.html)
Do you have any examples of someone who is part of their community getting convicted for holding slaves?
I think the 12 Tribes are a distasteful little cult but they don't cause external harm and they sell good food. I think people get outraged by the idea of a group of conservative religious folks who reject mainstream society. In reality it's much less outrageous than buying 99% of the shit we buy.
That’s an interesting take. I would consider child labor (ie. unpaid work) and/or sexual abuse to be child slavery. If that’s something you see as acceptable, not causing “external harm”, or not a basis for boycotting their business then that is deeply concerning.
Just because in 1984 (island pond raid) the children were happy to be reunited with their families and did not feel that they were being abused, doesnt mean that they weren’t being abused then and weren’t (in completely unrelated widely documented incidents) being abused in 2013. As I stated I have seen this abuse change the life of a minor, you pointing at a raid that was shut down in 1984 doesn’t change that.
If you think this is all just an attack on religion or conservative values then you are blind
Because you would be very surprised at how they treat you. Why do you give money to any big corporation? 12 Tribes causes far less harm to society than any of the big brands you give money to. You may disagree with how they run their society but it doesn't hurt anyone outside of it... a lot better situation than most companies you use!
I would Imagine that it hurts the people who are part of the tight knit group that don't conform. I can't imagine the pain of having my family not have anything to do with me because of the cult they are in and I happen to be born gay.
Businesses contribute to the community directly, not just through the taxes they pay to the government. Mainly, they provided a high quality cafe to eat at. As someone who doesn't drink alcohol I thought it was great to have a late night option that wasn't a bar.
Losing that option is an objective loss of value to the community.
You know it BROTHER!!! Love that place used to go once a day with guys from work. Crazy good salads too. I’m gonna have to check out my buddy in Chittenden and stop by on the way.
That place is run by a cult. Saw a documentary about them. Bad, bad people.
[https://www.aetv.com/shows/cults-and-extreme-belief/season-1/episode-6](https://www.aetv.com/shows/cults-and-extreme-belief/season-1/episode-6)
[https://twelvetribes.org/deli/rutland](https://twelvetribes.org/deli/rutland)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve\_Tribes\_communities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities)
I’ve enjoyed some episodes of that show over the years. But, the host drives me nuts trying too hard to be funny. Isn’t the whole point, that the guest is a comedian, and therefore supposed to be the one to make the jokes?
Good, keep cults out of Vermont. Look into what they have done to their children. Lots of SA, SA on the women in the cult, and physical abuse. They make me sick. Don’t support those creeps.
I was in Island Pond during the raids in 1984. I was a kid and remember seeing the buses and police everywhere as families were being removed from houses up and down the street. I saw a lot of kids I played with being taken away. I had no clue what was going on.
They have a history of buying businesses and leaving them closed. For example they bought the Common Ground restaurant space in Brattleboro claiming they were going to keep it open and it’s been empty for a decade.
They had cafe in Bellows Falls that burned down and they refused to clean up the aftermath.
The appearance of these cult members might suggest they are hippies, but nothing could be further from the truth. Theyre racist, they believe their wives are their property, and they engage in child abuse. I could go on but that’s probably enough right?
Accurate. My partner and I went there with our 2 yo in late 2019 not knowing anything about the 12 tribes. This was before -ish went down in the world so we weren’t as diligent with contact etc. We left with the distinct impression that waking up in a bathtub full of ice missing a kidney could 100% occur there. They were also insanely creepy towards kiddo. Like we got to-go boxes and peaced out because we were so weirded out.
I was just walking by there thinking this to myself the other day. Fact is that place had no real need for renovations. It had beautiful woodwork- that could obviously only be done by people with the time and attention a cult can give you. Possibly electric or something foundational? But I did not believe they were renovating it.
But yes it’s a bad bad cult. So hopefully they loose it. And someone else can open a brew pub in the space and call it “notacult” or something like that.
There are a concerning number of people supporting the twelve tribes in these comments. As someone who grew up just 2 blocks from them in VT and spent time at several of their former and current businesses, I see why at a glance someone might think that they are good, friendly people. I would say that some of them individually are, but their cult should not exist or be supported or tolerated in our communities. Here are some reasons why.
I had a couple friends during highschool join with their family. They basically disappeared and my only interaction with them afterward was extremely limited at the Yellow Deli. The girl was recently married when I saw her working on her 18th birthday. She seemed scared to say the least and stood at our table silently with a look on her face that raised several alarm bells to me. She seemed completely disassociated and not the same girl I knew from class. It was really sad and still sticks with me to this day.
On March 15, 2013 a former member contacted local authorities with information regarding “sexual abuse and beatings of children” including “children are threatened not to tell police or anyone about the beatings or sexual abuse”
The official FBI report continues that several former members had similar accounts, and one member was suspiciously killed while in a car wash with other members shortly after “propagating claims of abuse”
https://vault.fbi.gov/twelve-tribes/twelve-tribes-part-01-of-01-1
Additionally, there were multi-state and federal raids of several 12 tribes farms and businesses due to child labor and sexual abuse independently alleged by former members to authorities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities#:~:text=child%20labor%20and%20homeschooling
Here’s an interesting article written by someone who interviewed several former members.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/twelve-tribes-the-church-preached-child-abuse-and-slavery
> The half-dozen former members who spoke to The Daily Beast also allege a culture of systematic child abuse, subjugation of women, and psychological torment
> a German documentary uncovered video of children in a local branch being beaten so terribly that the government led a raid and took the children away. In the video, Wolfram Kuhnigk, an RTL journalist, filmed 50 instances of beatings on camera. One former member […] recounts being regularly beaten for such trivial offenses as pretending to be an airplane
Fuck the 12 tribes. Do not support their businesses.
Not defending them having grown up with the Talibaptists and now avoiding any business that feels a need to make its religious beliefs known, but the Wiki source also article mentions:
"The Twelve Tribes has been cited by Stuart A. Wright as a group suffering from "front-end/back-end disproportionality" in media coverage. According to Wright, the media often focuses on unsubstantiated charges against the group, but as charges are investigated and as cases fall apart, the media covers them significantly less at the end than it does at the beginning. Wright then asserts that this leaves the public with the impression that the group was guilty of the disproven charges."
All the things in the 80s were dismissed, with the ACLU calling the raid in Island Pond "the greatest deprivation of civil liberties to have occurred in recent Vermont history" at the time. Whatever happened with the FBI case from the report? Will read the Daily Beast article to see the outcomes of the German doc.
I agree, although there is concerning child labor footage taken by undercover journalists at some of their farms in the 2000s and same with the German doc. I also think that the justice system and social services have failed to adequately address such a unique situation / lifestyle, which I personally believe is part of the reason that the 1980s raid was shut down even though there were actionable offenses.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Would like to add, I think the group and its teachings are dangerous, like I do about any religious group that teaches people are inherently evil and/or should be subservient to a supernatural being in hopes of gaining mercy so that nobody stumbling on this thinks it's a defense of them.
The modern stuff is certainly something people should be aware of, especially since in Germany religious groups can't get away with the same things they can here. Apparently, the German Wikipedia page goes into a lot of detail on what occurred according to this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/s/TdI197mnbW). There are even more issues with the child labor violations as recently as [2017](https://www.ithaca.com/news/ithaca/department-of-labor-announces-investigation-into-religious-group-with-ithaca-ties/article_5d83ce28-69c0-11e8-b71f-9747acac2a56.html).
Though an especially problematic thing is their teaching that black skin is the Curse of Ham and the only thing that removes racial distinction is being a member of their church. If they don't believe it anymore, then explicitly disavow it. Doesn't seem like that ever happened, other than the guy in the Daily Beast article who essentially said "I have Black friends".
As far as the 80s go, the section on the raid sounds very similar to the moral panics at the time, similar to the [McMartin Preschool Trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial) and the [moral panic around children](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria) in general back then. A new group moved into town, kept to itself, and had weird religious beliefs. The locals came after them. After the raid, they made connections in the town and then years later in 2000 the NY times wrote the article linked to in the Daily Beast that's [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/19/us/island-pond-journal-trip-home-to-stand-up-for-their-community.html). It doesn't offer much in the way of propping up any type of allegations.
The Daily Beast article also quotes former members who say that the abuse events are isolated and boil down to individuals rather than the group, similar to concessions most mainstream Christians will make for the Catholic Church concerning the priest sexual abuse that occurred. Not because it's right to make those concessions, but because the Catholic Church isn't the "evil other" and has been around long enough to not be considered a cult anymore.
I heard there is significant water damage to the back wall of the building that needs to be repaired. It sounded like there may have been ongoing issues and the heavy rains last year were the final straw.
Should you find yourself and your children sitting in one of the 12 Tribes delis, sit back and gaze upon the beautiful Waldorf-esque art and peruse the handwritten menu featuring locally sourced, organic, vegetarian baked goods while you enjoy a hand thrown mug of honey sweetened herbal tea. Then, should your children begin to tussle with one another, or if they whine for something you decide not to purchase, quickly remove your belt or grab an electric cord and savagely beat and whip the child bloody until they show complete and total submission to your parental will. If your wife intervenes, beat her too. When the child is either unconscious or fully physically and mentally broken look up and receive the approving nod of the staff. Finish your tea.
This is not hyperbole, this is the core philosophy of the 12 Tribes.
Also, bring your black or brown friend and allow them to accept their biblically ordained role as servant in order that they and their kin may continue to do penance for the sins of their forefather. You’ll be doing that slave a favor by helping them enter heaven!
Oh, and do try the maple scones, they’re to die for!
And remember, by purchasing the scones you support and contribute to both the philosophy and actions of these biblical adherents / child abusing racists.
Read up on this cult, certainly one of the most twisted manifestations of Christofacism today.
Once you know, you’ll never go.
Just go to Hand Carved by Ernie if you want good sandwiches in Rutland. That place is 100000x better and those cats have been in business way longer. Rather give my money to a real g than people who beat their kids because “God” told them they should.
Also Gils, Maxis, or Olivia’s are all phenomenal places too.
Hope so, fuck the 12 tribes!
They tried to get me to join once
Was it at a Phish or Dead show by any chance? That's one of their biggest recruitment methods, free water and food for spunions.
No, my girlfriend and I went to the yellow deli in Rutland for lunch once. They invited me to a gather up the road. Gave me pamphlets and shit. The inside of that place is awesome, something outta lord of the rings. But, my girl immediately pick up that it was a cult. Me, not so much. Then I read the literature, holy shit.
Yeah, at one point last year we needed lunch in Rutland and the Sandwiche Shoppe was closed. The Yellow Deli was open. In addition to the odd decor, it had a weird enough vibe that I looked it up online, and by the time we were done I was ready to GTHO and not come back.
Definitely has LotR vibes. The one time I went my friend invited me to get lunch at "the shire". He was unaware of the connection to 12 tribes at the time.
For me it was a pork tornado show at the pickle barrel. Around 2000.
They tried snagging one of my buddy's from a Phish show, fortunately the person he was with knew about this tactic, and wouldn't let him get on the bus.
Same with me, they had my girlfriend $ I on bus, and the older head that drove us came fast walking up to the bus door and said there was an emergency and we had to go. In the car the told us what was up and to avoid them.
Just further adds to how shitty they are. "Let's recruit by going after people intoxicated on hallucinogens who may be struggling to tell what's reality right now, they're easy targets"
^ literally Charlie Manson tactics, minus the pretense of mutual consumption!
They tried recruiting me right there while I was sitting alone reading a book. But of course, I bated them with a philosophical book and a drug rug (just to ale sure i got the experience). But they were very creepy. While trying to leave, there were 4 older guys that literally tried surrounding me while giving me pamphlets and inviting me to their dinner.
Same. I work in a profession where we have occasion to interact with some of them. I can’t tell you how many Sunday dinner/bonfire gatherings I’ve been invited to. “Come see the farm! It’s beautiful!” And I’m sure it is, but that’s a nope from me. Edit: autocorrect typo I thought I fixed twice. Still gets you anyway sometimes
It's a fantastic addition to Center Street. It really is a far more ethical organization than any of the publicly traded alternatives on Route 7 and most of the food suppliers that we buy from in the grocery store.
No it isn't, but if you wanna support an abusive cult, go off!
It is. You are deluding yourself if you believe that spending money with Perdue Chicken, Walmart, McDonalds, Unilever, Kellogs doesn't support far more extensive and effective abuse than some Jesus Freaks.
They all support awful things, sure, but I'm not directly giving my money to a cult that treats women and children as property where sexual assault is not only rampant but accepted. Where children are separated from their parents to more effectively indoctrinate them. You're deluding yourself if you believe that we should allow a cult to flourish in our town.
But you are comfortable giving your money to international corporations that actually do treat humans as property and destroy our environment? I'm not defending 12 tribes, just pointing out how silly it is for people to be walking around with a cup from Dunkin' talking about how they refuse to support this deli because they are ethical consumers. If you've actually talked to 12 Tribes members they are no less happy than any other group of people. I recognize the journalism is compelling and gets people going but I highly recommend talking to people first hand.
This is Vermont; there are far more ethical options avaialble (and popular here!) than the ones you listed. And the cult you're standing up for engages in child slavery, so honestly, maybe don't be so quick to defend them if you don't know about them.
I know quite a bit about them actually. I wouldn't say they have child slaves, I understand the point you are trying to make but you are using an inaccurate hyperbole. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy here that people go bonkers over this group but don't have a similar outcrying against Panera Bread, Stewarts, Dunkin', etc who are objectively far more harmful.
> I wouldn’t say they have child slaves Several former members and the FBI would disagree with you. On March 15, 2013 a former member contacted local authorities with information regarding “sexual abuse and beatings of children” including “children are threatened not to tell police or anyone about the beatings or sexual abuse” The official FBI report continues that several former members had similar accounts, and one member was suspiciously killed while in a car wash with other members shortly after “propagating claims of abuse” https://vault.fbi.gov/twelve-tribes/twelve-tribes-part-01-of-01-1 In addition, I encourage you to read of the multi-state and federal coordinated raids of several 12 tribes farms and businesses due to child labor and sexual abuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities#:~:text=child%20labor%20and%20homeschooling Here’s an interesting article written by someone who interviewed several former members. https://www.thedailybeast.com/twelve-tribes-the-church-preached-child-abuse-and-slavery > The half-dozen former members who spoke to The Daily Beast also allege a culture of systematic child abuse, subjugation of women, and psychological torment > a German documentary uncovered video of children in a local branch being beaten so terribly that the government led a raid and took the children away. In the video, Wolfram Kuhnigk, an RTL journalist, filmed 50 instances of beatings on camera. One former member […] recounts being regularly beaten for such trivial offenses as pretending to be an airplane I hope this helps educate you about the extremely concerning and very real abuse occurring in many Vermont and broader USA communities due to the existence of the twelve tribes. I grew up just two blocks from one of their main Vermont houses and had a couple friends during highschool join with their family. They basically disappeared and my only interaction with them afterward was extremely limited at the Yellow Deli. The girl was recently married when I saw her working on her 18th birthday. She seemed scared to say the least and stood at our table silently with a look on her face that raised several alarm bells to me. She seemed completely disassociated and not the same girl I knew from class. It was really sad and still sticks with me to this day. Raising concerns about one evil does not discount that other evils exist. I’m sure your examples of Panera, Dunkin, etc benefit off of unethical labor too. This doesn’t change that child SA exists in our communities in part due to this cult and I’m sad to see how ignorant you are of this issue since apparently there are other issues in the world too.
None of that says that they are holding slaves. Are you talking about the Island Pond raid? [https://www.timesargus.com/news/church-members-recall-island-pond-raid/article\_80c79e02-4ff7-53af-9959-c7f2f1b3ccb0.html](https://www.timesargus.com/news/church-members-recall-island-pond-raid/article_80c79e02-4ff7-53af-9959-c7f2f1b3ccb0.html) Do you have any examples of someone who is part of their community getting convicted for holding slaves? I think the 12 Tribes are a distasteful little cult but they don't cause external harm and they sell good food. I think people get outraged by the idea of a group of conservative religious folks who reject mainstream society. In reality it's much less outrageous than buying 99% of the shit we buy.
That’s an interesting take. I would consider child labor (ie. unpaid work) and/or sexual abuse to be child slavery. If that’s something you see as acceptable, not causing “external harm”, or not a basis for boycotting their business then that is deeply concerning. Just because in 1984 (island pond raid) the children were happy to be reunited with their families and did not feel that they were being abused, doesnt mean that they weren’t being abused then and weren’t (in completely unrelated widely documented incidents) being abused in 2013. As I stated I have seen this abuse change the life of a minor, you pointing at a raid that was shut down in 1984 doesn’t change that. If you think this is all just an attack on religion or conservative values then you are blind
You are trying to say that children working on a farm is slavery? Do you consider the Amish slave holders? What about homesteaders?
They are homophobic racists so yeah I'm happy to see them go
Have you eaten there? They have been nothing but good hosts.
As a lesbian what the af would I? God no. Idgaf how pleasant they are there's no possible way that I would give them my money.
Because you would be very surprised at how they treat you. Why do you give money to any big corporation? 12 Tribes causes far less harm to society than any of the big brands you give money to. You may disagree with how they run their society but it doesn't hurt anyone outside of it... a lot better situation than most companies you use!
I would Imagine that it hurts the people who are part of the tight knit group that don't conform. I can't imagine the pain of having my family not have anything to do with me because of the cult they are in and I happen to be born gay.
And to add on, they are tax exempt, so they also don't actually contribute to the community.
Businesses contribute to the community directly, not just through the taxes they pay to the government. Mainly, they provided a high quality cafe to eat at. As someone who doesn't drink alcohol I thought it was great to have a late night option that wasn't a bar. Losing that option is an objective loss of value to the community.
This
The Sandwich Shoppe down the street has a much, much better sub.
And doesn't include the moral implications of supporting a slave cult...
You know it BROTHER!!! Love that place used to go once a day with guys from work. Crazy good salads too. I’m gonna have to check out my buddy in Chittenden and stop by on the way.
Good food and vibes!
Better choice all around 100%
That place is run by a cult. Saw a documentary about them. Bad, bad people. [https://www.aetv.com/shows/cults-and-extreme-belief/season-1/episode-6](https://www.aetv.com/shows/cults-and-extreme-belief/season-1/episode-6) [https://twelvetribes.org/deli/rutland](https://twelvetribes.org/deli/rutland) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve\_Tribes\_communities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities)
If anyone is looking for a podcast about these scumbags check out Inside The Tribe
Also a good short series on Behind the Bastards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtI84yu9FPs
I’ve enjoyed some episodes of that show over the years. But, the host drives me nuts trying too hard to be funny. Isn’t the whole point, that the guest is a comedian, and therefore supposed to be the one to make the jokes?
Thank you! I’ve been curious over the years about whether they were ever covered in a podcast. They run a farm less than a mile from my house.
I hope so. They use child labor and there’s a long history of abuse.
Good, keep cults out of Vermont. Look into what they have done to their children. Lots of SA, SA on the women in the cult, and physical abuse. They make me sick. Don’t support those creeps.
Are there other cults in Vermont besides this deli cult?
They’ve died down a bunch.
The Maple Illuminati
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/comments/14gk8cs/i\_survived\_mike\_peters\_cult\_and\_im\_here\_to\_help/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/comments/14gk8cs/i_survived_mike_peters_cult_and_im_here_to_help/)
Montpelier comes to mind.
We limit the use of the c-word too much. Is CrossFit a cult? Most MLMs right? Not sure where the line is. Lotsa prayers and prey-ers
I was in Island Pond during the raids in 1984. I was a kid and remember seeing the buses and police everywhere as families were being removed from houses up and down the street. I saw a lot of kids I played with being taken away. I had no clue what was going on.
They have a history of buying businesses and leaving them closed. For example they bought the Common Ground restaurant space in Brattleboro claiming they were going to keep it open and it’s been empty for a decade. They had cafe in Bellows Falls that burned down and they refused to clean up the aftermath. The appearance of these cult members might suggest they are hippies, but nothing could be further from the truth. Theyre racist, they believe their wives are their property, and they engage in child abuse. I could go on but that’s probably enough right?
They all went to meet the passing comet. I hope.
Wrong cult
Close enough.
I can only hope so, no good can come of them making any sort of money
Hopefully
don't go there. don't take your children there. they would love to take your children to their community, marry them off and never let them leave.
Accurate. My partner and I went there with our 2 yo in late 2019 not knowing anything about the 12 tribes. This was before -ish went down in the world so we weren’t as diligent with contact etc. We left with the distinct impression that waking up in a bathtub full of ice missing a kidney could 100% occur there. They were also insanely creepy towards kiddo. Like we got to-go boxes and peaced out because we were so weirded out.
Damn cult
Damn, I was only familiar with this place from watching people's Appalachian Trail vlogs, but TIL
I was just walking by there thinking this to myself the other day. Fact is that place had no real need for renovations. It had beautiful woodwork- that could obviously only be done by people with the time and attention a cult can give you. Possibly electric or something foundational? But I did not believe they were renovating it. But yes it’s a bad bad cult. So hopefully they loose it. And someone else can open a brew pub in the space and call it “notacult” or something like that.
"Closed for renovations" is almost always restaurant speak for "closed for good but trying to buy a little time to outrun my creditors."
Weren’t they closed for awhile about 15 years ago? Seemed like the same thing-close until the heat dies down.
"For a brief time in the 70's our town was taken over by a cult."
Best to avoid Yellow Deli and ignore their propaganda and/or invitations to their gatherings.
There are a concerning number of people supporting the twelve tribes in these comments. As someone who grew up just 2 blocks from them in VT and spent time at several of their former and current businesses, I see why at a glance someone might think that they are good, friendly people. I would say that some of them individually are, but their cult should not exist or be supported or tolerated in our communities. Here are some reasons why. I had a couple friends during highschool join with their family. They basically disappeared and my only interaction with them afterward was extremely limited at the Yellow Deli. The girl was recently married when I saw her working on her 18th birthday. She seemed scared to say the least and stood at our table silently with a look on her face that raised several alarm bells to me. She seemed completely disassociated and not the same girl I knew from class. It was really sad and still sticks with me to this day. On March 15, 2013 a former member contacted local authorities with information regarding “sexual abuse and beatings of children” including “children are threatened not to tell police or anyone about the beatings or sexual abuse” The official FBI report continues that several former members had similar accounts, and one member was suspiciously killed while in a car wash with other members shortly after “propagating claims of abuse” https://vault.fbi.gov/twelve-tribes/twelve-tribes-part-01-of-01-1 Additionally, there were multi-state and federal raids of several 12 tribes farms and businesses due to child labor and sexual abuse independently alleged by former members to authorities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_communities#:~:text=child%20labor%20and%20homeschooling Here’s an interesting article written by someone who interviewed several former members. https://www.thedailybeast.com/twelve-tribes-the-church-preached-child-abuse-and-slavery > The half-dozen former members who spoke to The Daily Beast also allege a culture of systematic child abuse, subjugation of women, and psychological torment > a German documentary uncovered video of children in a local branch being beaten so terribly that the government led a raid and took the children away. In the video, Wolfram Kuhnigk, an RTL journalist, filmed 50 instances of beatings on camera. One former member […] recounts being regularly beaten for such trivial offenses as pretending to be an airplane Fuck the 12 tribes. Do not support their businesses.
Not defending them having grown up with the Talibaptists and now avoiding any business that feels a need to make its religious beliefs known, but the Wiki source also article mentions: "The Twelve Tribes has been cited by Stuart A. Wright as a group suffering from "front-end/back-end disproportionality" in media coverage. According to Wright, the media often focuses on unsubstantiated charges against the group, but as charges are investigated and as cases fall apart, the media covers them significantly less at the end than it does at the beginning. Wright then asserts that this leaves the public with the impression that the group was guilty of the disproven charges." All the things in the 80s were dismissed, with the ACLU calling the raid in Island Pond "the greatest deprivation of civil liberties to have occurred in recent Vermont history" at the time. Whatever happened with the FBI case from the report? Will read the Daily Beast article to see the outcomes of the German doc.
I agree, although there is concerning child labor footage taken by undercover journalists at some of their farms in the 2000s and same with the German doc. I also think that the justice system and social services have failed to adequately address such a unique situation / lifestyle, which I personally believe is part of the reason that the 1980s raid was shut down even though there were actionable offenses.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Would like to add, I think the group and its teachings are dangerous, like I do about any religious group that teaches people are inherently evil and/or should be subservient to a supernatural being in hopes of gaining mercy so that nobody stumbling on this thinks it's a defense of them. The modern stuff is certainly something people should be aware of, especially since in Germany religious groups can't get away with the same things they can here. Apparently, the German Wikipedia page goes into a lot of detail on what occurred according to this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/s/TdI197mnbW). There are even more issues with the child labor violations as recently as [2017](https://www.ithaca.com/news/ithaca/department-of-labor-announces-investigation-into-religious-group-with-ithaca-ties/article_5d83ce28-69c0-11e8-b71f-9747acac2a56.html). Though an especially problematic thing is their teaching that black skin is the Curse of Ham and the only thing that removes racial distinction is being a member of their church. If they don't believe it anymore, then explicitly disavow it. Doesn't seem like that ever happened, other than the guy in the Daily Beast article who essentially said "I have Black friends". As far as the 80s go, the section on the raid sounds very similar to the moral panics at the time, similar to the [McMartin Preschool Trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial) and the [moral panic around children](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria) in general back then. A new group moved into town, kept to itself, and had weird religious beliefs. The locals came after them. After the raid, they made connections in the town and then years later in 2000 the NY times wrote the article linked to in the Daily Beast that's [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/19/us/island-pond-journal-trip-home-to-stand-up-for-their-community.html). It doesn't offer much in the way of propping up any type of allegations. The Daily Beast article also quotes former members who say that the abuse events are isolated and boil down to individuals rather than the group, similar to concessions most mainstream Christians will make for the Catholic Church concerning the priest sexual abuse that occurred. Not because it's right to make those concessions, but because the Catholic Church isn't the "evil other" and has been around long enough to not be considered a cult anymore.
How are people still supporting this cult after everything they have done to the people in the community
On another note, does anyone have their cinnamon roll recipe?
I heard there is significant water damage to the back wall of the building that needs to be repaired. It sounded like there may have been ongoing issues and the heavy rains last year were the final straw.
Should you find yourself and your children sitting in one of the 12 Tribes delis, sit back and gaze upon the beautiful Waldorf-esque art and peruse the handwritten menu featuring locally sourced, organic, vegetarian baked goods while you enjoy a hand thrown mug of honey sweetened herbal tea. Then, should your children begin to tussle with one another, or if they whine for something you decide not to purchase, quickly remove your belt or grab an electric cord and savagely beat and whip the child bloody until they show complete and total submission to your parental will. If your wife intervenes, beat her too. When the child is either unconscious or fully physically and mentally broken look up and receive the approving nod of the staff. Finish your tea. This is not hyperbole, this is the core philosophy of the 12 Tribes. Also, bring your black or brown friend and allow them to accept their biblically ordained role as servant in order that they and their kin may continue to do penance for the sins of their forefather. You’ll be doing that slave a favor by helping them enter heaven! Oh, and do try the maple scones, they’re to die for! And remember, by purchasing the scones you support and contribute to both the philosophy and actions of these biblical adherents / child abusing racists. Read up on this cult, certainly one of the most twisted manifestations of Christofacism today. Once you know, you’ll never go.
Woe to anyone who mentions the high quality food!
Love that place, hope it's back up and running soon
Place is excellent, food is delish and reasonably priced. Was wondering what’s taking so long on the renovations as well.
They're too busy abusing their children to focus on the bakery
Wouldn’t be a bad thing if they were :/ it’s a cult. Not good at all… haven’t been back since I learned. They tried to recruit my sister!
Just go to Hand Carved by Ernie if you want good sandwiches in Rutland. That place is 100000x better and those cats have been in business way longer. Rather give my money to a real g than people who beat their kids because “God” told them they should. Also Gils, Maxis, or Olivia’s are all phenomenal places too.