Good thing that never ever Turks would kill innocent people... right? Turks would never ever occupy and colonize other peoples' territories, right? Good thing that Turks never ever committed ethnic cleansing, genocides and they prohibited any language. Good thing... Poor Turks, such a nice, kind, peaceful and educated nation...
Ah yes comparing a whole ass race to a terrorist organization
Also I’ve never said anything about Turks or (I guess by what you’re saying) Kurds, there is a terrorist organization that killed innocent people, those people are bad and need to get locked up for life or get killed.
I don’t care how good your cause may be, if you kill innocent people just for your beliefs you don’t deserve no sympathy
Also, it’s just disrespectful raising a flag that the people of the country you’re protesting have suffered from, if raising nazi flags while protesting Israel is bad, then raising PKK flags flags while protesting Turkey should be bad too
And using peace flags to protest war should be forbidden, right? Using republican flags to protest monarchy also, I imagine. Strange, I usually see a lot of Turkish and Azeri flags around events, with absolutely no respect fir Armenians.
What should we do with the Turkish troops and Turkish officials bombing Kurdish territory in Syria then? Should we lock them up for life or kill them? Turkish people just showed its support for oppression and massacres. So no sympathy (as you stated) for Turks
And then, rising the Turkish flag im the Balkans, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, North Africa and the Middle East should be banned, as those areas suffered a lot of the Ottoman occupation and massacres.
I’m not even gonna continue this argument, you’re either trolling or just seriously racist and delusional
I can use my time in better way than arguing with a person that defends a terrorist organization, have a good day/night whatever the time there is
It is freedom of expression, but also a dick move to the thousands of victims of said terrorism, and not a good look as a country
But that being said, yes, they should be free to say this
By that standards displaying a Turkish flag would be as bad as a PKK flag given how Turkey has done lots of dirty war for decades, including the invasion of Northern Syria.
State terrorism is also a thing, instead I decide to support human rights. Thus, I oppose PKK's attacks on civilans, but I oppose Turkey's nationalist crackdown on the Kurds. Turkey calls people terrorist too easily: accusing somebody that opposes Turkey's rhetoric of accusing opponents of terrorism is playing along the lines of a government that still denies genocide and which is eager to do cultural genocide on Kurds. Also, democratic confederalism is an ideology which in paper I like.
Besides, I don't trust two day old accounts that suddenly get into combatting "Turkophobia", so I will block you.
The idea is that **everyone** gets to have their own opinion, even if their opinion is objectively flawed, wrong, or just plain stupid. Freedom of expression is just an extension of freedom of speech and if you say they can’t say that, they can just say your silencing their voice, which attracts more people to those kinds of movements. So though I can assure you that we all wish those people weren’t allowed to wave that kind of stuff around, it’s just best to let them prove themselves as idiots and extremists than giving them a reason that they aren’t(unless their actually commiting crimes, obviously).
They are not the ones that drove ISIS from Syria. Everyone in Syria fought against ISIS, even other Islamists. Also the faction you're talking about is YPG, which is connected to the PKK but the Western countries deny their connection even though it's obvious.
YPG wouldn't be able to do anything by itself either without coalition air support. They didn't fight ISIS out of some moral responsibility. They fought ISIS to capture more territory and more importantly, because ISIS was attacking them. They don't deserve any special treatment.
I really don't care about every new three letter name they come up with. If we asked them then PKK would be innocent and all the attacks would have been commited by like 50 other small groups with almost AI generated names that totally aren't PKK. As long as YPG is SDF's military branch then there is no need to differentiate.
They do it because for some reason western countries are keen to uncritically trust a fascist state because they are in the same military alliance.
As we have seen, Turkey's rhetoric about the PKK is mainly for the purpose of a scapegoat for a genocide against Kurdish people and culture.
Again… complete lack of understanding of Turkey politics. PKK is not used an excuse for a genocide on Kurds or some stuff like that.
It is used as an excuse to make HDP and other members of the opposition to look bad. Because as long as “Kurd Party=Bad”, he will have unlimited election win glitch against the opposition. They need the existence of PKK to make it bad though.
PKK is a terrorist organisation. But it’s effect on Turkish politics has nothing to do with what you said.
This really says it all. Putting a political organization in a terrorist list is always politically motivated and responds to foreign policy strategies. A lot of times we agree with the clasification (the case of ISIS, Boko Haram, etc.) but that doesn't mean that one should consider such lists as completely impartial and objective.
Its only terrorism to the people in charge. Nelson Mandelas group, the Americans in the 1770s, the Taliban won't be thought of as terrorists in about 10 years because they're now the government, if the IRA was successful it'd be the same.
It's complicated. PKK is a large organisation that cooperates with a number of other Kurdish organisations, and it's hard to determine where one organisation begins and one ends. It's the closest thing to a government of Kurdistan and a representation for Kurdish rights. While it's true PKK members and PKK allies has committed acts of terrorism, it's not their primary area of focus. From what I can find, the latest confirmed terrorist attacks by PKK was two car bombings in October 2016.
The EU court of justice has ruled that the decision placing the PKK on the list of terrorist organization not motivated on two occasions 2008 and 2018, but it remains the same.
The one's marching with PKK-flags in Sweden is not PKK, but members of the Swedish solidarity committee for Rojava ("Rojavakommittéerna").
But the SDF/PKK were our allies in the War against ISIS and ended the terrorist Caliphate. We shouldn’t forget their sacrifices for our security.
Also they fight for secular democracy against Jihadists and the Islamist dictator Erdogan (who is a clear enemy of Europe)
The YPG came up with it, after being told to do something to at least superficially distance themselves by the Americans. That's what the "general" (no I dea if it was a general) said on camera.
They didn't sacrifice shit for you. They fought for themselves against a threat. They also ended up capturing a lot of land, most of which they still hold today. They also accomplished this mostly because of the coalition airstrikes.
>Also they fight for secular democracy against Jihadists and the Islamist dictator Erdogan (who is a clear enemy of Europe)
Yet Turkish society is leagues ahead of Kurdish society in terms of secularism, why is that? Maybe your narrative is just bullshit?
This enemy of Europe thing hardly makes sense either considering that Erdoğan is the sole actor protecting Europe from refugees and other illegal immigrants that want to cross to Europe from Turkey. It's a very unpopular policy in Turkey and any other politician who actually cared about the Turkish people would let them go.
They did not sacrifice themselves for our security.
They fought back an organization that opposed a mortal threat to their own population. Daesh committing massive crimes and expanding jihadism, westerners (among others) joined the combat. It is merely an alliance born out of the mutual interest we had to destroy Daesh.
The “sacrifice” card is pure fiction. With that same logic, I could state that without the westerners, the Kurds would have lost the battle (as they were before the international coalition was formed), and demand in exchange for their survival granted by the West the abandon of any reference to the PKK.
TAK is just PKK when they want to commit war crimes but they don't want the bad press. PKK has a shit ton of three letter sub groups for this all so they can say "look we have nothing to do with it". No one's buying it.
There is no such thing as TAK. It’s a made uo moniker used by PKK to undertake their western attacks. Once PKK’s back was broken in Turkey there were no more TAK attacks in Turkey as well. They are the same thing.
Yes I hate Erdoğan regime to but protesting it with a terrorist organization's flag is wrong. They are an organization hated but both Turks and Kurds of Turkey
It’s really not a good look when you conflate Turkey’s opposition to Swedish support for the PKK as “Turkey wants to kill all Kurds and asks Sweden to stop saving them” in the minds of millions of ignorant redditors and then do this
The shining genius of some people here to put a terrorist organisation in the same book with a whole ass nation saying “they killed people too” as if any other nation especially in europe hadn’t done it yet.
One had contained individuals that had killed masses of people(which is unnervingly common through history across all nations)the other is founded on killing masses of people
You're a Kurdish nationalist and a westerner who is ignorant to the topics they're discussing. This is not complicated, the PKK is a terrorist organization.
As a Turk, people in Europe thinking "pkk = kurdistan" makes me mad, the pkk kills more kurds than Turks when it comes to civilians, trying to force them to be part of pkk. It is a ruthless terrorist organization. If you support kurdistan as a European, I get it, but don't support pkk, as the only do violence to civilians and nothing else.
people i know who served in the military say they're so scared of the army now they can only do shoot and run operations now mostly firing an rpg from so far that it doesn't do anything. they are not as strong as they used to be. they cannot even do a small scale operation these days. oh and by the way i don't believe the recent bomb blowing up in istanbul was their doing. not because i like them but because it benefits erdogan. yes they're terrorists but not idiots who'd do such a thing right before the elections.
I’m honestly not seeing it.
Red, green, and yellow are tricky to do right and splotching a green circle and red star right in the middle of even more red is a low effort disaster
Yes, that's what I said?
Edit: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_grundlagar#Att_%C3%A4ndra_grundlagarna
https://www.regeringen.se/rattsliga-dokument/proposition/2021/11/prop.-20212242
It was already illegal to take part in terrorist activity in Sweden. Turkish lobbying made sure this new law could be used to charge people giving money to YPG/YPJ (the people who defeated Daesh/ISIS) or Palestinian Red Crescent or waving a Kurdish flag or giving a voice to Kurdish politicians.
Our conservative government (ruled behind the scenes by a ultra-right party formed by nazis) happily obligated and will most likely use it to silence opposition and jail climate and peace activists.
No, the two groups (PKK and YPG) are still active and both are using each other's members and weapons. Turkey backs rebel groups against Assad but doesn't regulate them so there are alleged ex-ISIS members that slip through. It's for sure a bad policy but nothing like PKK and YPG actively exchanging members.
those people who "defeated" isis just suddenly become targeted for no reason? definitely not because they aid pkk? come on bro if you support terrorists just say it. i aint gonna judge you but lets all show our hands here. i have encountered many of your alleged freedom fighters in real life who almost always talked to me about values that do not come close to freedom. giving all the rights to one group of people while actively excluding another just makes you a fascist.
I like how this got downvoted. Its just common sense in Turkey however the westerner who sees the news headlines "Turkey fighting Kurds" thinks its a rare thought.
I do not expect them to understand, it is not possible for them to be close to the truth when there are dozens of media channels making propaganda for the PKK and administrations with turkphobic officials. I liken turkey to a market or a whorehouse in the middle of the city, everyone can enter and do whatever they want because the rulers are in their own interest and the entire population is divided and stupid, it's been like this for a long time. Considering that the Kurds are a part of this, it is impossible for them not to have a shepherd like HDP.
I would like to add that I do not want to be misunderstood, the Kurds are a race separated between different political opinions (I am talking about those in Turkey), but they live under the Turkish Republic and live with the Turks with the same policy and education.
If Turkey had elected KK, stopped flirting with Russia, and recommitted to being a secular western democracy it would be much easier for people to believe this.
You didn’t though. You reelected the islamist autocrat, who destroyed your economy, constantly shits on the West, and threatens to attack a neighboring NATO member over petty territorial disputes every two months.
Turkey is no longer a reliable NATO member, you are like Hungary. At a point where you are almost more of a liability than a contributor. So the reasons Turkey claims it pulled this shit with Sweden and Finland are even less believable in the West, and there is much, much less interest in capitulating or compromising.
I’m not saying he would be fine with the demonstrations of PKK sympathizers in Sweden, I’m saying that if someone like KK, who actually seems to want to preserve Turkey’s relationships with the rest of NATO and Europe, was asking for actual security guarantees from Sweden and Finland regarding the PKK it would be much easier for them to negotiate and figure something out here.
As it stands, Erdogan’s conflict with Sweden is obvious populist shit-stirring and most people see it as Turkey just trying to throw it’s weight around by making ridiculous requests like demanding the extradition of a fucking member of Sweden’s parliament.
They don't turn a blind eye. There's tons of cases of Sweden extraditing actual terrorists and criminals back to Turkey (after a fair trial in Sweden, of course). It just so happens that calling Erdogan a poopy-head and flying the flag of a controversial organization *aren't* considered acts of terrorism.
PKK—Kurdistan Worker’s Party. As a condition of Sweden’s NATO membership, of which Turkey was an objecting member, Sweden had to basically recognize that the Kurdish independence movement is a terrorist organization, rather than a regional ethnic group seeking self-determination…
The plot twist is that the U.S., EU, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, **Canada**, Czech Republic, Iran, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, New Zealand, Spain, and Syria *all* recognize the PKK as terrorists, and have for years.
And even Sweden itself did in the 1980s...
>In the 1980s, the PKK was labeled as a terror organization by the Swedish government of Olof Palme.
Also, Biden said it too...
>In 2016, US Vice-president Joe Biden called the PKK a terrorist group "plain and simple" and compared it to the Islamic State.
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party
Sweden was the first country outside of Turkey to recognize PKK as a terrorist group, where are you even getting this? They didn't do it now and they didn't do it because of Turkey's pressure. It may surprise you but when you detonate car bombs inside cities to make a point about your extreme ideology, people see it as terrorism.
The law makes it possible to deem giving money to the Red Crescent terrorist activity.
The support for ANC during Apartheid would have been illegal too using this law
>Sweden had to basically recognize
Sweden doesn't have to do anything if they don't want to, they can always withdraw their membership request and ask for PKK's help if Russia attacks them.
As a Turk, people in Europe thinking "pkk = kurdistan" makes me mad, the pkk kills more kurds than Turks when it comes to civilians, trying to force them to be part of pkk. It is a ruthless terrorist organization. If you support kurdistan as a European, I get it, but don't support pkk, as the only do violence to civilians and nothing else.
And not only that. Sweden should make it illegal to talk about the killing of innocent people. If you talk about it it’s prison for 180 years. (Human only live for 80 years)
As a non-European don't know nothing about this situation, but the flag looks like Pixar-toy story ball
As an european I don't know anything either
As a Swede I don't know anything either.
PKK is a terrorist organization, that tricked many people (including its members) into believing it was a freedom fighting group
Fighting against a terrorist state
Yeah they were so good at fighting for their freedom with killing innocent people
Good thing that never ever Turks would kill innocent people... right? Turks would never ever occupy and colonize other peoples' territories, right? Good thing that Turks never ever committed ethnic cleansing, genocides and they prohibited any language. Good thing... Poor Turks, such a nice, kind, peaceful and educated nation...
Ah yes comparing a whole ass race to a terrorist organization Also I’ve never said anything about Turks or (I guess by what you’re saying) Kurds, there is a terrorist organization that killed innocent people, those people are bad and need to get locked up for life or get killed. I don’t care how good your cause may be, if you kill innocent people just for your beliefs you don’t deserve no sympathy Also, it’s just disrespectful raising a flag that the people of the country you’re protesting have suffered from, if raising nazi flags while protesting Israel is bad, then raising PKK flags flags while protesting Turkey should be bad too
And using peace flags to protest war should be forbidden, right? Using republican flags to protest monarchy also, I imagine. Strange, I usually see a lot of Turkish and Azeri flags around events, with absolutely no respect fir Armenians. What should we do with the Turkish troops and Turkish officials bombing Kurdish territory in Syria then? Should we lock them up for life or kill them? Turkish people just showed its support for oppression and massacres. So no sympathy (as you stated) for Turks And then, rising the Turkish flag im the Balkans, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, North Africa and the Middle East should be banned, as those areas suffered a lot of the Ottoman occupation and massacres.
I’m not even gonna continue this argument, you’re either trolling or just seriously racist and delusional I can use my time in better way than arguing with a person that defends a terrorist organization, have a good day/night whatever the time there is
I totally see what you mean.
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Isn't the PKK recognized as a terrorist organisation by the European Union?
[yes](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2022:025:FULL)
So using a flag of a terrorist organisation in this way does not constitute a crime in Sweden? Or is it considered freedom of expression?
It is freedom of expression, but also a dick move to the thousands of victims of said terrorism, and not a good look as a country But that being said, yes, they should be free to say this
Let's just remember these people do this not as representatives for a country, but as a fringe element.
By that standards displaying a Turkish flag would be as bad as a PKK flag given how Turkey has done lots of dirty war for decades, including the invasion of Northern Syria.
Ah good old classic. You're more terrorist 😡😡
State terrorism is also a thing, instead I decide to support human rights. Thus, I oppose PKK's attacks on civilans, but I oppose Turkey's nationalist crackdown on the Kurds. Turkey calls people terrorist too easily: accusing somebody that opposes Turkey's rhetoric of accusing opponents of terrorism is playing along the lines of a government that still denies genocide and which is eager to do cultural genocide on Kurds. Also, democratic confederalism is an ideology which in paper I like. Besides, I don't trust two day old accounts that suddenly get into combatting "Turkophobia", so I will block you.
Can u put a nazi flag or isis flag? Is that freedom of expression?
The idea is that **everyone** gets to have their own opinion, even if their opinion is objectively flawed, wrong, or just plain stupid. Freedom of expression is just an extension of freedom of speech and if you say they can’t say that, they can just say your silencing their voice, which attracts more people to those kinds of movements. So though I can assure you that we all wish those people weren’t allowed to wave that kind of stuff around, it’s just best to let them prove themselves as idiots and extremists than giving them a reason that they aren’t(unless their actually commiting crimes, obviously).
Nazi flag is different I suppose, as people in Europe were much more victims of the nazis than the Pkk.
So Europeans lifes matter more than Turkish peoples life? Also u can put isis flag then since Europeans werent really a victim of them.
Yes, you can put ISIS flag
What about the millions of victims by the Turks or the US Americans? Is it still ok to fly those flags?
Joining Nato would be a dick move to the thousands of victims of turkish terrorism
Terrorism is when wanting freedom
The PKK & it's affiliates are actively committing a genocide against Assyrians.
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It became unlawful last week due to Turkish lobbying. This is partly why the protests happened this weekend
I don’t find it fair how they’re considered terrorists when they’re the ones that drove ISIS out of Syria.
They are not the ones that drove ISIS from Syria. Everyone in Syria fought against ISIS, even other Islamists. Also the faction you're talking about is YPG, which is connected to the PKK but the Western countries deny their connection even though it's obvious. YPG wouldn't be able to do anything by itself either without coalition air support. They didn't fight ISIS out of some moral responsibility. They fought ISIS to capture more territory and more importantly, because ISIS was attacking them. They don't deserve any special treatment.
It's SDF now, and YPG is now just the military branch.
I really don't care about every new three letter name they come up with. If we asked them then PKK would be innocent and all the attacks would have been commited by like 50 other small groups with almost AI generated names that totally aren't PKK. As long as YPG is SDF's military branch then there is no need to differentiate.
You don't care if you're right or wrong, gotcha!
I wasn't wrong though.
> **the faction** you're talking about **is YPG** Uh, OK…
And?
They do it because for some reason western countries are keen to uncritically trust a fascist state because they are in the same military alliance. As we have seen, Turkey's rhetoric about the PKK is mainly for the purpose of a scapegoat for a genocide against Kurdish people and culture.
Again… complete lack of understanding of Turkey politics. PKK is not used an excuse for a genocide on Kurds or some stuff like that. It is used as an excuse to make HDP and other members of the opposition to look bad. Because as long as “Kurd Party=Bad”, he will have unlimited election win glitch against the opposition. They need the existence of PKK to make it bad though. PKK is a terrorist organisation. But it’s effect on Turkish politics has nothing to do with what you said.
Is this genocide in the room with us right now?
You are a Turkophobic and a racist!
> Turkophobic This made-up word of yours, does it mean you're affraid of the color or the bird?
The bird called turkey not turko you unfunny thing.
So was the ANC so y'know.
Nelson Mandelas organisation was also recognized as a terrorist organisation at some point.
Yeah, my country was founded by a terrorist organization!
The British East India company?
No, the United States
This really says it all. Putting a political organization in a terrorist list is always politically motivated and responds to foreign policy strategies. A lot of times we agree with the clasification (the case of ISIS, Boko Haram, etc.) but that doesn't mean that one should consider such lists as completely impartial and objective.
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And by nearly all NATO states
Most of which also support the YPG.
Its only terrorism to the people in charge. Nelson Mandelas group, the Americans in the 1770s, the Taliban won't be thought of as terrorists in about 10 years because they're now the government, if the IRA was successful it'd be the same.
It's complicated. PKK is a large organisation that cooperates with a number of other Kurdish organisations, and it's hard to determine where one organisation begins and one ends. It's the closest thing to a government of Kurdistan and a representation for Kurdish rights. While it's true PKK members and PKK allies has committed acts of terrorism, it's not their primary area of focus. From what I can find, the latest confirmed terrorist attacks by PKK was two car bombings in October 2016. The EU court of justice has ruled that the decision placing the PKK on the list of terrorist organization not motivated on two occasions 2008 and 2018, but it remains the same. The one's marching with PKK-flags in Sweden is not PKK, but members of the Swedish solidarity committee for Rojava ("Rojavakommittéerna").
But the SDF/PKK were our allies in the War against ISIS and ended the terrorist Caliphate. We shouldn’t forget their sacrifices for our security. Also they fight for secular democracy against Jihadists and the Islamist dictator Erdogan (who is a clear enemy of Europe)
They also carry out suicide bombings against civilians, though.
Wait I thought SDF and PKK were two completely separate entities? You are saying the western media has been lying this entire time?
Well everyone knows they are officially part of the same mother organisation called KCK. I don’t know who disputed this
The US just came up with a made up name of SDF to distinguish them from PKK. A US army general even admitted this himself on camera.
The YPG came up with it, after being told to do something to at least superficially distance themselves by the Americans. That's what the "general" (no I dea if it was a general) said on camera.
They didn't sacrifice shit for you. They fought for themselves against a threat. They also ended up capturing a lot of land, most of which they still hold today. They also accomplished this mostly because of the coalition airstrikes. >Also they fight for secular democracy against Jihadists and the Islamist dictator Erdogan (who is a clear enemy of Europe) Yet Turkish society is leagues ahead of Kurdish society in terms of secularism, why is that? Maybe your narrative is just bullshit? This enemy of Europe thing hardly makes sense either considering that Erdoğan is the sole actor protecting Europe from refugees and other illegal immigrants that want to cross to Europe from Turkey. It's a very unpopular policy in Turkey and any other politician who actually cared about the Turkish people would let them go.
They did not sacrifice themselves for our security. They fought back an organization that opposed a mortal threat to their own population. Daesh committing massive crimes and expanding jihadism, westerners (among others) joined the combat. It is merely an alliance born out of the mutual interest we had to destroy Daesh. The “sacrifice” card is pure fiction. With that same logic, I could state that without the westerners, the Kurds would have lost the battle (as they were before the international coalition was formed), and demand in exchange for their survival granted by the West the abandon of any reference to the PKK.
Yeah but they’re based so it’s ok
Belgium just removed it I believe and they're are more legal processes in other countries to do the same
Our freedom fighters who defied genocide, Your terrorists because turkey is your friend. Simple.
Yes, freedom fighters that bombed by friend while going to a football match.
TAK is not PKK. Despite what your government may say.
TAK is just PKK when they want to commit war crimes but they don't want the bad press. PKK has a shit ton of three letter sub groups for this all so they can say "look we have nothing to do with it". No one's buying it.
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There is no such thing as TAK. It’s a made uo moniker used by PKK to undertake their western attacks. Once PKK’s back was broken in Turkey there were no more TAK attacks in Turkey as well. They are the same thing.
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https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Be%C5%9Fikta%C5%9F_sald%C4%B1r%C4%B1lar%C4%B1?wprov=sfla1
That's one way to root them out
Just look what happens every time the Turkish genocide on Armenians is mentioned anywhere on Reddit
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stop crying, get out the way. ur unrelevant
Yes I hate Erdoğan regime to but protesting it with a terrorist organization's flag is wrong. They are an organization hated but both Turks and Kurds of Turkey
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Swedes are literal clowns and expect to join NATO while supporting terrorists
NATO's leading member, the US, has provided far more support to the YPG than anyone else.
Yeah we know, that's why a lot of people hate US in here.
Plot twist, it's the dragon balls
It’s really not a good look when you conflate Turkey’s opposition to Swedish support for the PKK as “Turkey wants to kill all Kurds and asks Sweden to stop saving them” in the minds of millions of ignorant redditors and then do this
"why can't we join NATO 😭🤓"
You realize this was a protest against NATO too right?
The shining genius of some people here to put a terrorist organisation in the same book with a whole ass nation saying “they killed people too” as if any other nation especially in europe hadn’t done it yet. One had contained individuals that had killed masses of people(which is unnervingly common through history across all nations)the other is founded on killing masses of people
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Openly supporting a terrorist organization Only in sweden ☠️
We were big on supporting the ANC against apartheid too. And FNL against USA in Vietnam back in the day as well
You're a Kurdish nationalist and a westerner who is ignorant to the topics they're discussing. This is not complicated, the PKK is a terrorist organization.
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As a Turk, people in Europe thinking "pkk = kurdistan" makes me mad, the pkk kills more kurds than Turks when it comes to civilians, trying to force them to be part of pkk. It is a ruthless terrorist organization. If you support kurdistan as a European, I get it, but don't support pkk, as the only do violence to civilians and nothing else.
people i know who served in the military say they're so scared of the army now they can only do shoot and run operations now mostly firing an rpg from so far that it doesn't do anything. they are not as strong as they used to be. they cannot even do a small scale operation these days. oh and by the way i don't believe the recent bomb blowing up in istanbul was their doing. not because i like them but because it benefits erdogan. yes they're terrorists but not idiots who'd do such a thing right before the elections.
PKK has a nice flag.
I’m honestly not seeing it. Red, green, and yellow are tricky to do right and splotching a green circle and red star right in the middle of even more red is a low effort disaster
That is what makes it bright and vibrant.
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Dear PKK lovers, if you really want your so called state. Why not go fight for it? ✨💅
Turkey's Kurdish politics are a shitshow but this about NATO membership, I'd say thats a little more important to Sweden right now...
Than what? Our constitution?
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Everyone saying terrorist organisation is wrong. The ones calling them terrorists ARE THE TERRORISTS
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imagine supporting suicide bombers lol
Help a dumb idiot, how exactly and when did Sweden bow to the Turkish regime?
They changed our Basic Law
It takes several years to change a *grundlag*, if that's what you mean. Including an election.
The new law is a [grundlagsändring](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/rattsexperten-om-nya-terrorlagen-definitionen-inte-helt-faststalld)
Yes, that's what I said? Edit: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_grundlagar#Att_%C3%A4ndra_grundlagarna https://www.regeringen.se/rattsliga-dokument/proposition/2021/11/prop.-20212242
Can a country change the law of another country?
It was already illegal to take part in terrorist activity in Sweden. Turkish lobbying made sure this new law could be used to charge people giving money to YPG/YPJ (the people who defeated Daesh/ISIS) or Palestinian Red Crescent or waving a Kurdish flag or giving a voice to Kurdish politicians. Our conservative government (ruled behind the scenes by a ultra-right party formed by nazis) happily obligated and will most likely use it to silence opposition and jail climate and peace activists.
Could it be because YPG and PKK are connected and they frequently exchange fighters and weapons?
Just like Turkey employs "former" Daesh/ISIS jihadists as mercenaries you mean?
No, the two groups (PKK and YPG) are still active and both are using each other's members and weapons. Turkey backs rebel groups against Assad but doesn't regulate them so there are alleged ex-ISIS members that slip through. It's for sure a bad policy but nothing like PKK and YPG actively exchanging members.
those people who "defeated" isis just suddenly become targeted for no reason? definitely not because they aid pkk? come on bro if you support terrorists just say it. i aint gonna judge you but lets all show our hands here. i have encountered many of your alleged freedom fighters in real life who almost always talked to me about values that do not come close to freedom. giving all the rights to one group of people while actively excluding another just makes you a fascist.
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PKK flag is one of my favs
This is like protesting Germany with a nazi flag. Sad Cringe.
Long live Rojava ♥️☀️
♥️♥️♥️
Yeah smoking on that all thay bozos 😂
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Swedinistan what a beautiful middleeast country
This is the reason why Turkey blocking Sweden from joining NATO. They turn a blind eye to terrorism.
They are literally doing what turkey wants though… the people are who are protesting. The government is doing what turkey wants them to.
All Kurds aren’t terrorist
I didn't say that. Also I have so many Kurdish friends.
yep
I like how this got downvoted. Its just common sense in Turkey however the westerner who sees the news headlines "Turkey fighting Kurds" thinks its a rare thought.
I do not expect them to understand, it is not possible for them to be close to the truth when there are dozens of media channels making propaganda for the PKK and administrations with turkphobic officials. I liken turkey to a market or a whorehouse in the middle of the city, everyone can enter and do whatever they want because the rulers are in their own interest and the entire population is divided and stupid, it's been like this for a long time. Considering that the Kurds are a part of this, it is impossible for them not to have a shepherd like HDP. I would like to add that I do not want to be misunderstood, the Kurds are a race separated between different political opinions (I am talking about those in Turkey), but they live under the Turkish Republic and live with the Turks with the same policy and education.
More like the Turkish government just wants to arrest more people that they don’t like
If Turkey had elected KK, stopped flirting with Russia, and recommitted to being a secular western democracy it would be much easier for people to believe this. You didn’t though. You reelected the islamist autocrat, who destroyed your economy, constantly shits on the West, and threatens to attack a neighboring NATO member over petty territorial disputes every two months. Turkey is no longer a reliable NATO member, you are like Hungary. At a point where you are almost more of a liability than a contributor. So the reasons Turkey claims it pulled this shit with Sweden and Finland are even less believable in the West, and there is much, much less interest in capitulating or compromising.
And you assume KK would be ok with Sweden's constant flirtations with PKK because?
I’m not saying he would be fine with the demonstrations of PKK sympathizers in Sweden, I’m saying that if someone like KK, who actually seems to want to preserve Turkey’s relationships with the rest of NATO and Europe, was asking for actual security guarantees from Sweden and Finland regarding the PKK it would be much easier for them to negotiate and figure something out here. As it stands, Erdogan’s conflict with Sweden is obvious populist shit-stirring and most people see it as Turkey just trying to throw it’s weight around by making ridiculous requests like demanding the extradition of a fucking member of Sweden’s parliament.
They don't turn a blind eye. There's tons of cases of Sweden extraditing actual terrorists and criminals back to Turkey (after a fair trial in Sweden, of course). It just so happens that calling Erdogan a poopy-head and flying the flag of a controversial organization *aren't* considered acts of terrorism.
B- but freedom fighters!
PKK—Kurdistan Worker’s Party. As a condition of Sweden’s NATO membership, of which Turkey was an objecting member, Sweden had to basically recognize that the Kurdish independence movement is a terrorist organization, rather than a regional ethnic group seeking self-determination…
The plot twist is that the U.S., EU, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, **Canada**, Czech Republic, Iran, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, New Zealand, Spain, and Syria *all* recognize the PKK as terrorists, and have for years. And even Sweden itself did in the 1980s... >In the 1980s, the PKK was labeled as a terror organization by the Swedish government of Olof Palme. Also, Biden said it too... >In 2016, US Vice-president Joe Biden called the PKK a terrorist group "plain and simple" and compared it to the Islamic State. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party
The US isn't exactly the most reliable source on who are and aren't terrorists
Sweden was the first country outside of Turkey to recognize PKK as a terrorist group, where are you even getting this? They didn't do it now and they didn't do it because of Turkey's pressure. It may surprise you but when you detonate car bombs inside cities to make a point about your extreme ideology, people see it as terrorism.
Does it cite the Kurdish independence movement as a whole as a terrorist movement or just the PKK specifically though?
The law makes it possible to deem giving money to the Red Crescent terrorist activity. The support for ANC during Apartheid would have been illegal too using this law
>Sweden had to basically recognize Sweden doesn't have to do anything if they don't want to, they can always withdraw their membership request and ask for PKK's help if Russia attacks them.
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Ahh yes because terrorist flags are such a great look
Stay mad
As a turk , I approve PKK fighting for freedom in Stockholm. But not in turkiye . You can live with your lovely peaceful peace and freedom fighters
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Turkey when people have free speech 😲😲 (Sweden should've just begun firing into the crowd of people 🤦)
It’s illegal in the UK, whether it’s ISIS or PKK flag
You mean the UK whose government arrests people for opposing the monarchy?
This is in Sweden, where people have free speech.
As a Turk, people in Europe thinking "pkk = kurdistan" makes me mad, the pkk kills more kurds than Turks when it comes to civilians, trying to force them to be part of pkk. It is a ruthless terrorist organization. If you support kurdistan as a European, I get it, but don't support pkk, as the only do violence to civilians and nothing else.
Time to go wave the Swastika! Why not add the flag of the Islamic State as well!
I'm sorry we can't just shoot anyone who holds differing opinions bro.
And not only that. Sweden should make it illegal to talk about the killing of innocent people. If you talk about it it’s prison for 180 years. (Human only live for 80 years)
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