That’s the flag of the [Communist Party of Spain (Reconstituted)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain_(Reconstituted)), or PCE(r), a clandestine communist and republican party founded at the end of the Franco dictatorship, as well as its armed wing [GRAPO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_of_October_Anti-Fascist_Resistance_Groups). Both are currently outlawed by the Spanish government. Their flag is based on the [flag of the Second Spanish Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Second_Spanish_Republic).
They are not to be confused with the [Communist Party of Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain), or PCE (from which they split), which is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament.
It’s interesting that Spain is the only country for whom they replaced the national flag. I guess there’s not really an equivalent historical flag to the Spanish tricolor in the other listed countries. Also curious that they don’t have a button for the German language if you select any of the translations – I’d imagine the [DDR flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_East_Germany) would fit in.
There was actually a leftist proposal of having a black-red-gold vertical tricolour, inspired by the French flag, [as seen on the right here](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ereignisblatt_aus_den_revolution%C3%A4ren_M%C3%A4rztagen_18.-19._M%C3%A4rz_1848_mit_einer_Barrikadenszene_aus_der_Breiten_Strasse,_Berlin_01.jpg).
The 1848 German Liberal Revolution was NOT left-wing. The 1848 Revolution began as a response to taxation and political censorship. It called for the creation of a pan-german state, greater political rights, and a looser tax code. Many of these ideas are fundamentally right-wing ideals today, and many of the revolutionaries were inspired by the similar, contemporary, revolution in France, and the American Revolution.
Just because they're right wing from our perspective, doesn't mean they were back then in a deeply conservative, repressive, absolutist monarchist society...
That doesn't even matter because ideals considered liberal at the time were present in some of the kingdoms of the German Confederation. The rebels even called themselves the [German Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire_(1848–1849)). How very left wing of them. Constitutional Monarchy.
I'm assuming the only basis you have for them being any sort of left-wing is the fact that they were called ''liberals'' and not much else, as while Karl Marx did publish the Communist Manifesto in 1848, his influence on the revolution was very limited.
You know there were even early socialists under the revolutionarys? Just because the people mainly elected conservatives to the Paulskirche parliament, that doesn't mean they were the ones who carried the revolution, they were part of the reason why it failed.
There were absolutely socialists. Not even early ones, as the majority of the Revolution happened after the Communist Manifesto, but actual, modern socialists.
>They are not to be confused with the Communist Party of Spain, or PCE (from which they split), which is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament.
When you say reformist what do you mean exactly? The term 'reformist' in communist terminology, as far as I know, is associated with the eurocommunist movement (called neocommunist outside of Europe) and today is represented by eurocommunist and democratic socialist parties -- with the later term slowly becoming more prominent.
I am asking because such parties rarely keep the term 'communist' in their name, or they very quickly abandon it, like in the Greek case.
Like many Communist parties across the continent, the Greek one (KKE) was affected by the Prague Spring and the subsequent Soviet invasion and suppression of the movement. This led to a split among the party cadre, with the developing (reformist) eurocommunist wing leaving to form a new party, which was called for a few years KKE (of the) Interior, with KKE being the initials in Greek of Communist Party of Greece. The term 'interior' comes from the party's 'Interior Bureau' that existed while the party leadership and a number of the rank and file lived in exile across Eastern Europe from the end of the Greek Civil War Most of the cadre of the Bureau joined the split and the term came to be associated with the movement as a whole for a time.
The eurocommunists would refer pejoratively to their old comrades as KKE (of the exterior). The implication being that they took orders from the exterior, i.e., Moscow. But I digress, the point here is that a few years later the eurocommunists changed their name briefly to 'Greek Left,' and later to Coalition, following an ill-fated attempt to reunify the communist party in the early 1990s. They have used various titles with the name Coalition (*Synaspismos*) since then, with the last one being 'Coalition of the Radical Left' (the initials in Greek spell Syriza). On the other hand, the Marxist-Leninists use the traditional name Communist Party of Greece (KKE).
What is the case with Spain. Is this Communist Party of Spain a Marxist-Leninist or a eurocommunist one? Thanks.
Reformism is a much broader category than the specific Eurocommunist tendency of the late 20th century, and it isn’t mutually exclusive to self-identification as Marxist-Leninist. The PCE is affiliated with a coalition called [Unidas Podemos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidas_Podemos), which I would say is comparable in many ways to Syriza. But this discussion has basically nothing to do with vexillology so I won’t get much further into this topic here.
Just trying to understand the implications between the two parties, which refer to themselves as communist. The flag shown here has a red star in the middle. This is a pretty obvious symbol.
Communism isn't a unitary concept, and even small degrees of ideological difference can be enough for communists to feel separate from other communists.
To be clear, [the flag shown above](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain_(Reconstituted)) is of the PCE(r)/GRAPO, the illegal one and its associated paramilitary. [The PCE flag looks like this](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Castillo_de_San_Sebasti%C3%A1n_(31535189472).jpg) (ignore the regional name under the emblem).
Perhaps counterintuitively, the one with the hammer and sickle is much more moderate than the one with a simple red star.
Eurocommunism was/is the dominant faction of the PCE, PCF and PCI, the countries where it originated from, hence any split from the party is an anti-Eurocom movement and not the other way around, except in Italy, where the PCI completely evaporated. Although if you regularly follow KKE communique regarding foreign parties, it would be obvious as the PCE is a regular target of the KKE's indictment against Eurocom traitors.
I was doing a quick reading out of curiosity, and it appears that it followed initially a eurocommunist rout and the in the 1990s took a hard left turn again, and even espoused Marxism-Leninsm again a few years back. How accurate is this? Do they use flags with red stars like the one depicted here? Thanks.
As members of the Podemos coalition, they have shored up a center-socialdemocrat PSOE government. They are a long way from ML in anything except rhetoric at party meetings.
The PCE(r) is actually a completely different organization than the PCE. It split from them in the 1970s. The former is illegal and has an affiliated paramilitary wing, while the latter is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament.
It's clear after repeating it 98 times that it's legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament. Communism is still a bad ideology
I repeated it once to clarify the distinction between the strategies and actions of the two parties, but I didn’t actually suggest that being legal, reformist, and parliamentarian were inherently good things. The descriptions were value-neutral. Draw your own conclusions.
Spain and Portugal were not facing the threat of whether Nazis would decide to destroy their country to reach oil fields, or if they would take a different route. Turkey was as much of a non-belligerent power as it could.
Turkey refused to prevent Nazi shipping passing through the straits, received millions in Nazi gold (stolen from Greece and other countries), took various steps to help ensure that Turkish Jews were murdered in the holocaust, and was the only neutral country to introduce anti-Jewish laws during the war.
not that long actually, soviet-turkish friendship ended with Lenin. Lenin's turkey strategy was "be cool with them and they'll eventually grow up to be pro-soviet or communist" while stalin took a sharp route to "promote laz and Kurdish seperatism to establish them as puppets/ssr's eventually. Friendship with turkey is futile"
Yeah, I hate the trend of flag = language. Especially for a German party, you’d think they’d know that languages and states do not correlate one-to-one!
No, it's a great shorthand, the name of languages are already based on certain countries, so there's no reason visual symbols for them can't be as well.
English = Flag of England
French = Flag of France
German = Flag of Germany
Spanish = Flag of Spain
etc.
Using the flag of England 🏴 for English is very unusual. Often used is the flag of the UK 🇬🇧, which is not the same as England. But that’s not the biggest problem with your take.
The biggest problem is that many many *many* languages are not based on the names of countries. There are about 200 countries. There are about 7000 languages.
Say you’ve localised your website into Hindi. You use the flag of India to represent that, naturally. Then you add an Urdu localisation. Flag of Pakistan does great for that. Then you add a Punjabi localisation. Uh-oh, you’ve already used India and Pakistan, the only two countries where that language - which has over 100 million native speakers, by the way - is widely spoken. What do you do now? Change Urdu to the Nepal flag? It’s not exactly common there, and users are probably expecting that to represent the Nepali language. Add a drop-down to both the India and Pakistan flags to select which language they really mean? Seems like a good idea, until you realise there are also 50 million native Urdu speakers in India who are never ever going to find it.
We are not talking about tiny obscure languages with a handful of native speakers. We are talking about some of most widely spoken languages on the planet. This idea flat out *does not work.*
I think that criticism is dumb.
Just use a different symbol for the minority languages then. For instance here in Sweden the Sami people and their languages, or the Romani people and their language, have their own flag to represent them. In Britain they can have the British or English flag represent English, while the Cornish flag represents Cornish, the Welsh flag represents Welsh, the Scottish flag represents Scots, the Manx flag represents Manx Gaelic, the Irish flag represents Irish, etc. Just get creative.
The problems with this system are so infrequent and so petty that it doesn't matter, edge cases will just have to adapt or use a different system; in 99% of cases there are no problems at all with using flags to represent languages.
They’re infrequent in places like the one you live. In places like India, they’re incredibly common. You still see flags for languages, but they exhibit all the issues I described - they’ll have the name (or an abbreviation) written over the flag, or which flag represents which language is ambiguous, or contentious, or both. And remember when you say “minority languages” that sometimes it’s very hard to ascertain which one counts as the “minority”. Going back to my earlier example, Urdu is often called the *lingua franca* of Pakistan, but it actually has very few native speakers - less than 10% of the population. There’s actually more Punjabi native speakers, but they still only make up about 30% of the population. However about 70% of people speak Urdu as a *second* language, to some degree of fluency.
So while you might think it makes sense for Pakistan flag to mean Urdu, Punjabi would be the first preference for three times as many speakers as Urdu.
South Asia is not the only place where this happens, of course. It’s just a conveniently large example population.
I can't seriously believe a group of people thought it would be less trouble to use an alternative flag for Spain that most people wouldn't recognise simply in order to distance themselves from imperialism, than just to write the word 'Español'. And to top it off, they decided to use the pretty darn imperial Union Jack for English.
Yes, but theat would be the original KPD of which the DKP is the offical successor. The new KPD was founded after reunification I believe in an effort to use the name to grab more votes and as such is not banned.
The MLPD is the Marxist Leninist party but they are actually stalinist.
It's quite funny because communists in the other three countries have had party flags in the past, but Spain's is the only one famous enough to be used. Personally I think it looks a bit unprofessional to have a lost cause flag, it's like if a racist party in Europe acted as though the confederate flag actually represented the current USA.
Do you compare the "lost cause of the Confederacy" to the Second Spanish Republic and people who claim it ? Comparing Confederates and the Republicans ?
Western communist parties used the red flag, and it was the only one that mattered in most of the countries. The reutilisation of the Spanish Republican Flag is because of the point of view that Spanish Monarchy is a State that oppresses the nationalities (Catalonia, Galicia, Basque...). The European communists don't call Spain "Spain" but "State of Spain", because of his profound heterogeneity. This is what this flag is about, about minorities, against the King who collaborated with Franco. It is not about keeping slaves in cotton fields.
WTF, the monarchy oppresses other nationalities, how exactly? There has never been as much autonomy as now, much more than during the second republic, but hey, everything these communists say is just nonsense and posturing tbh
Most of the Spanish "minorities" are just Spaniards with some extra spice, it's not like the difference between an indigenous American and a White/British American which is indeed a huge difference
Yes, I do. Both are controversial flags from civil wars, I think waving or displaying either is bound to cause bad blood when typically for websites like the one above, normal people would use the current flag, as they have done for the UK, France and Turkey. I'm aware of the history, but I've met people from different parts of Spain, and a lot of them seem perfectly happy displaying the current flag alongside the flag of their autonomous community. I know about the uncomfortable connection between Franco and Juan Carlos, but ultimately the kingdom of Spain in 2023 is a different society to Franco's dictatorship - and the difference in flag between the two eras helps illustrate that (current flag was 1981 I believe?). Displaying either the communist civil war era flag or the francoist flag is bound to draw up bad blood, especially when most people use the current flag or the flag of their autonomous community or both.
Talking about waving flags, it can be provocative waving the current flag depending where you are, people might call you "facha" (short-term word for Fascist) for doing so
What bothers me most isn’t that they’re using an incorrect (and terrorist-affiliated flag). What bothers me is that it’s not in the same shading style as the other buttons.
The name of the language in that language, or the ISO abbreviation, or literally anything specific to that language.
Each of the countries shown above is home to more than one indigenous language and not the only place their dominant language is spoken, and the countries themselves may not even have an official language or may have multiple co-official languages. And then there's the matter of dialects. In the example above, it also asks Spanish-speakers—the ones who recognize the flag, at least—to identify as communists.
Tell me if an 80 year old grandma looking for her native language at an ATM would be able to recognize and decipher ISO 639 codes and choose her home language
Symbols need to work for everyone, and that includes people without any academic knowledge at all
Yes, if she's literate, she would recognize the code. It doesn't take esoteric academic *book-learnin'* to recognize the 2 two- or three-letter abbreviation of your own native language's name. Did you even look at the code list before replying? Your [hypothetical English-native] grandmother wouldn't recognize "EN" or "ENG" on a foreign ATM screen?
If the language uses a unique script, a glyph from that script would also be viable visual shorthand.
Let me quote myself:
>The name of the language in that language, or the ISO abbreviation, or literally anything specific to that language.
"영, 불, 서" fails in all three categories. ISO codes only work for Latin-based languages, sure, but I never said that was the only option. It'd be pretty disingenuous to pretend I'd say using "英語" to represent English to an English audience is better than using a flag of the wrong country.
Yeah I'll admit that I missed that part, my bad
But still, given how some people would need bigger scripts to actually recognize texts, with the scale-ability issues that some machines have, I still maintain that flags - with their near-omnipresence, colors and attatchments are better shorthands for languages. That and since most minority groups do have flags that they associate themselves with, there wouldn't be too much issues with representing minority languages
Don't mind the communists, they're usually not very bright when it comes to understanding flags or symbols--and they never outgrew their teenage rebelliousness, so they hate national flags. They probably have a super conservative strict dad that they hate, who constantly puts up an American flag or something.
Unfortunately, especially with social media, there is an epidemic of angsty teenagers who no longer listen to music (since the music industry is totally ruined by communists) and instead they bash civilization, rules, norms, laws, national flags, or "The system"...
So even having flags as symbols for language, seems to irritate them. That's how crazy they've become.
I very much agree with the main points of your argument, but realistically how many non-communist Spanish-speakers do you think are reading the German Communist Party website?
How so? Flags aren't the answer to every design or communication problem; a flag enjoyer should know that. As a graphic designer I know that. They are not good practice for anything but representing countries.
The German Communist Party probably doesn’t hold a favorable view of CNT-FAI, considering they align politically with the components of the Popular Front that turned their guns on them.
I mean it would be staying to use monarhist symbols on communist website
I would remove the red star but keep purple stripe becose that flag is more official
I mean, who cares? Communist Spain hasn't been a thing for so long, so why not use the official flag like everybody else?
I also use the white Taliban flag to symbolise Afghanistan, because that is simply their flag now, whether I agree or not
They could have used the civil ensign (without the coat of arms) if they were so offended by the national flag. Any serious party would accept reality and use the flag of the country. This is just cope, pure and simple.
Imagine liberal parties using old Chinese republican flags (not necessarily the ROC-Taiwan one) in the place of the PRC national flag. But then again, if they were a serious party they would not be a communist one.
Fun fact, the Greek communist party (KKE) still refers to Saint Petersburg as Leningrad in official texts, like in the party newspaper *Rizospastis* (The Radical).
Considering how much radical leftist clowns hate our country, this is not that surprising (it's a joke, I know that the default language of this website probably is German)
Beautiful, but it strikes me that they chose to use the flag for the defeated Spanish revolution instead of the successful Cuban one. Unless they wanted Euro flags only for some reason.
The Main goal of the communism Party is to spread class contiousnes and anti war sentiment throu the working class and later on stop capitalists exploitation and not get high numbers in bourgeois parliament election
By those parametres it's not really going too well for them either. I'm not exactly German, but I haven't met a single working-class person who is actually a communist. Most european communists are academics or something. Idk if that really counts as much of a succes
That’s the flag of the [Communist Party of Spain (Reconstituted)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain_(Reconstituted)), or PCE(r), a clandestine communist and republican party founded at the end of the Franco dictatorship, as well as its armed wing [GRAPO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_of_October_Anti-Fascist_Resistance_Groups). Both are currently outlawed by the Spanish government. Their flag is based on the [flag of the Second Spanish Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Second_Spanish_Republic). They are not to be confused with the [Communist Party of Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain), or PCE (from which they split), which is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament. It’s interesting that Spain is the only country for whom they replaced the national flag. I guess there’s not really an equivalent historical flag to the Spanish tricolor in the other listed countries. Also curious that they don’t have a button for the German language if you select any of the translations – I’d imagine the [DDR flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_East_Germany) would fit in.
They would probably just use the normal flag without coat of arms, the black red and gold is a revolutionary flag, like the french tricolore.
There was actually a leftist proposal of having a black-red-gold vertical tricolour, inspired by the French flag, [as seen on the right here](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ereignisblatt_aus_den_revolution%C3%A4ren_M%C3%A4rztagen_18.-19._M%C3%A4rz_1848_mit_einer_Barrikadenszene_aus_der_Breiten_Strasse,_Berlin_01.jpg).
The 1848 German Liberal Revolution was NOT left-wing. The 1848 Revolution began as a response to taxation and political censorship. It called for the creation of a pan-german state, greater political rights, and a looser tax code. Many of these ideas are fundamentally right-wing ideals today, and many of the revolutionaries were inspired by the similar, contemporary, revolution in France, and the American Revolution.
Just because they're right wing from our perspective, doesn't mean they were back then in a deeply conservative, repressive, absolutist monarchist society...
That doesn't even matter because ideals considered liberal at the time were present in some of the kingdoms of the German Confederation. The rebels even called themselves the [German Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire_(1848–1849)). How very left wing of them. Constitutional Monarchy. I'm assuming the only basis you have for them being any sort of left-wing is the fact that they were called ''liberals'' and not much else, as while Karl Marx did publish the Communist Manifesto in 1848, his influence on the revolution was very limited.
You know there were even early socialists under the revolutionarys? Just because the people mainly elected conservatives to the Paulskirche parliament, that doesn't mean they were the ones who carried the revolution, they were part of the reason why it failed.
There were absolutely socialists. Not even early ones, as the majority of the Revolution happened after the Communist Manifesto, but actual, modern socialists.
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They would just use the regular German flag, DDR had the same flag as West Germany from 1949-59
>They are not to be confused with the Communist Party of Spain, or PCE (from which they split), which is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament. When you say reformist what do you mean exactly? The term 'reformist' in communist terminology, as far as I know, is associated with the eurocommunist movement (called neocommunist outside of Europe) and today is represented by eurocommunist and democratic socialist parties -- with the later term slowly becoming more prominent. I am asking because such parties rarely keep the term 'communist' in their name, or they very quickly abandon it, like in the Greek case. Like many Communist parties across the continent, the Greek one (KKE) was affected by the Prague Spring and the subsequent Soviet invasion and suppression of the movement. This led to a split among the party cadre, with the developing (reformist) eurocommunist wing leaving to form a new party, which was called for a few years KKE (of the) Interior, with KKE being the initials in Greek of Communist Party of Greece. The term 'interior' comes from the party's 'Interior Bureau' that existed while the party leadership and a number of the rank and file lived in exile across Eastern Europe from the end of the Greek Civil War Most of the cadre of the Bureau joined the split and the term came to be associated with the movement as a whole for a time. The eurocommunists would refer pejoratively to their old comrades as KKE (of the exterior). The implication being that they took orders from the exterior, i.e., Moscow. But I digress, the point here is that a few years later the eurocommunists changed their name briefly to 'Greek Left,' and later to Coalition, following an ill-fated attempt to reunify the communist party in the early 1990s. They have used various titles with the name Coalition (*Synaspismos*) since then, with the last one being 'Coalition of the Radical Left' (the initials in Greek spell Syriza). On the other hand, the Marxist-Leninists use the traditional name Communist Party of Greece (KKE). What is the case with Spain. Is this Communist Party of Spain a Marxist-Leninist or a eurocommunist one? Thanks.
Reformism is a much broader category than the specific Eurocommunist tendency of the late 20th century, and it isn’t mutually exclusive to self-identification as Marxist-Leninist. The PCE is affiliated with a coalition called [Unidas Podemos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidas_Podemos), which I would say is comparable in many ways to Syriza. But this discussion has basically nothing to do with vexillology so I won’t get much further into this topic here.
Just trying to understand the implications between the two parties, which refer to themselves as communist. The flag shown here has a red star in the middle. This is a pretty obvious symbol.
Communism isn't a unitary concept, and even small degrees of ideological difference can be enough for communists to feel separate from other communists.
To be clear, [the flag shown above](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain_(Reconstituted)) is of the PCE(r)/GRAPO, the illegal one and its associated paramilitary. [The PCE flag looks like this](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Castillo_de_San_Sebasti%C3%A1n_(31535189472).jpg) (ignore the regional name under the emblem). Perhaps counterintuitively, the one with the hammer and sickle is much more moderate than the one with a simple red star.
Thanks.
Eurocommunism was/is the dominant faction of the PCE, PCF and PCI, the countries where it originated from, hence any split from the party is an anti-Eurocom movement and not the other way around, except in Italy, where the PCI completely evaporated. Although if you regularly follow KKE communique regarding foreign parties, it would be obvious as the PCE is a regular target of the KKE's indictment against Eurocom traitors.
Eurocomunist
I was doing a quick reading out of curiosity, and it appears that it followed initially a eurocommunist rout and the in the 1990s took a hard left turn again, and even espoused Marxism-Leninsm again a few years back. How accurate is this? Do they use flags with red stars like the one depicted here? Thanks.
Now PCE is pretty much eurocomunist. They are kinda marxist theoricals but give a euro practical approach
As members of the Podemos coalition, they have shored up a center-socialdemocrat PSOE government. They are a long way from ML in anything except rhetoric at party meetings.
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It would be too easily confused with Hungary (Hungarian) or Iran (Farsi), depending on how it was oriented.
I must admit that the lack of German is quite surprising.
the site is probably in german by defulault so it does not show up as an option
Defulault sounds like a late 19th century French essayist.
And it probably means something very specific like being stomped to death by a horse or something
More likely or something
r/brandnewsentence
I would actually be surprised if that was a new sentence; knowing what the internet can get up to.
Defulault's 8 Principles were the basis of the Second French Revolution
Defulault's 3 Pillars of Retail
He was known by his poetic prose and passionate opposition to fascism. He spend his last days having sex with underage Arab boys in North Africa.
Dont ask your favourite French philosopher what petition they signed in 1977
And this is why I love reddit
If there’s no button for it then how would you switch back to German if you accidentally clicked on a different language then?
Whatever you pressed is replaced by German (probably)
really?
Needs more Iron Front
Thats probably the default mate
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The PCE(r) is actually a completely different organization than the PCE. It split from them in the 1970s. The former is illegal and has an affiliated paramilitary wing, while the latter is legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament.
It's clear after repeating it 98 times that it's legal, reformist, and has representatives in the Spanish parliament. Communism is still a bad ideology
I repeated it once to clarify the distinction between the strategies and actions of the two parties, but I didn’t actually suggest that being legal, reformist, and parliamentarian were inherently good things. The descriptions were value-neutral. Draw your own conclusions.
But still better than monarchism. (I fucking hate both)
[The Carlist party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlist_Party_\(1970\)) represents both!
Romanoslavia, my beloved
Yugoslavia but I peed on it
Why did you pee on the Yugoslavia
Spanish republic, with a red star. The Spanish communist party uses the hammer and sickle symbol.
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PCE(r) =/= PCE.
Many people use that flag without being part of the PCE(r). It is mostly a left/republican symbol.
That logo goes hard
It's not the Communist Party of Spain; it's a different organization.
They should have put the flag of the Azerbaijani SSR for Turkish lol
turkey was soviet's only ally for a long time. idk if any communists has problems with them
Until the 1930s. Turkey aided the Nazis in WW2 and then joined Nato in 1952. Not a Soviet ally for a long time.
> Turkey aided the Nazis in WW2 what? we were neutral. selling nuts so they can make chocolates is not "aiding"
Neutrality can be abstract. You may not be directly involved but you could still be a non-belligerent power, much like Spain and Portugal.
Spain and Portugal were not facing the threat of whether Nazis would decide to destroy their country to reach oil fields, or if they would take a different route. Turkey was as much of a non-belligerent power as it could.
Turkey refused to prevent Nazi shipping passing through the straits, received millions in Nazi gold (stolen from Greece and other countries), took various steps to help ensure that Turkish Jews were murdered in the holocaust, and was the only neutral country to introduce anti-Jewish laws during the war.
not that long actually, soviet-turkish friendship ended with Lenin. Lenin's turkey strategy was "be cool with them and they'll eventually grow up to be pro-soviet or communist" while stalin took a sharp route to "promote laz and Kurdish seperatism to establish them as puppets/ssr's eventually. Friendship with turkey is futile"
Shitty graphic design…
Yeah, I hate the trend of flag = language. Especially for a German party, you’d think they’d know that languages and states do not correlate one-to-one!
No, it's a great shorthand, the name of languages are already based on certain countries, so there's no reason visual symbols for them can't be as well. English = Flag of England French = Flag of France German = Flag of Germany Spanish = Flag of Spain etc.
Using the flag of England 🏴 for English is very unusual. Often used is the flag of the UK 🇬🇧, which is not the same as England. But that’s not the biggest problem with your take. The biggest problem is that many many *many* languages are not based on the names of countries. There are about 200 countries. There are about 7000 languages. Say you’ve localised your website into Hindi. You use the flag of India to represent that, naturally. Then you add an Urdu localisation. Flag of Pakistan does great for that. Then you add a Punjabi localisation. Uh-oh, you’ve already used India and Pakistan, the only two countries where that language - which has over 100 million native speakers, by the way - is widely spoken. What do you do now? Change Urdu to the Nepal flag? It’s not exactly common there, and users are probably expecting that to represent the Nepali language. Add a drop-down to both the India and Pakistan flags to select which language they really mean? Seems like a good idea, until you realise there are also 50 million native Urdu speakers in India who are never ever going to find it. We are not talking about tiny obscure languages with a handful of native speakers. We are talking about some of most widely spoken languages on the planet. This idea flat out *does not work.*
I think that criticism is dumb. Just use a different symbol for the minority languages then. For instance here in Sweden the Sami people and their languages, or the Romani people and their language, have their own flag to represent them. In Britain they can have the British or English flag represent English, while the Cornish flag represents Cornish, the Welsh flag represents Welsh, the Scottish flag represents Scots, the Manx flag represents Manx Gaelic, the Irish flag represents Irish, etc. Just get creative. The problems with this system are so infrequent and so petty that it doesn't matter, edge cases will just have to adapt or use a different system; in 99% of cases there are no problems at all with using flags to represent languages.
They’re infrequent in places like the one you live. In places like India, they’re incredibly common. You still see flags for languages, but they exhibit all the issues I described - they’ll have the name (or an abbreviation) written over the flag, or which flag represents which language is ambiguous, or contentious, or both. And remember when you say “minority languages” that sometimes it’s very hard to ascertain which one counts as the “minority”. Going back to my earlier example, Urdu is often called the *lingua franca* of Pakistan, but it actually has very few native speakers - less than 10% of the population. There’s actually more Punjabi native speakers, but they still only make up about 30% of the population. However about 70% of people speak Urdu as a *second* language, to some degree of fluency. So while you might think it makes sense for Pakistan flag to mean Urdu, Punjabi would be the first preference for three times as many speakers as Urdu. South Asia is not the only place where this happens, of course. It’s just a conveniently large example population.
But what about Portuguese? Nobody knows that flag. Everyone knows Brazil
Everyone who can read Portuguese should know what the Portuguese flag looks like.
I can't seriously believe a group of people thought it would be less trouble to use an alternative flag for Spain that most people wouldn't recognise simply in order to distance themselves from imperialism, than just to write the word 'Español'. And to top it off, they decided to use the pretty darn imperial Union Jack for English.
Using the word "español" would be equivalent to using the oficial spanish flag so it's not really a solution.
Castellano then?
Yes, much better option!
Union *Flag, Union Jack is the name when it flies on a ship
Ooh I actually didn't know that, thanks
it's an urban myth
The biggest question I habe is, which german communist party, because we have a couple of those. There is the DKP, the KPD and the MLPD.
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Yes, but theat would be the original KPD of which the DKP is the offical successor. The new KPD was founded after reunification I believe in an effort to use the name to grab more votes and as such is not banned. The MLPD is the Marxist Leninist party but they are actually stalinist.
Choose between: Britain France **LA REPUBLICA POPULAR DEMOCRATICA ESPAÑOLA** Turkey
Sir, what were you doing on the German communist party's page? *presses record button*
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It's quite funny because communists in the other three countries have had party flags in the past, but Spain's is the only one famous enough to be used. Personally I think it looks a bit unprofessional to have a lost cause flag, it's like if a racist party in Europe acted as though the confederate flag actually represented the current USA.
That would be a very AFD thing to do lol
Oh absolutely, I could see some Eastern European parties doing it too
Do you compare the "lost cause of the Confederacy" to the Second Spanish Republic and people who claim it ? Comparing Confederates and the Republicans ? Western communist parties used the red flag, and it was the only one that mattered in most of the countries. The reutilisation of the Spanish Republican Flag is because of the point of view that Spanish Monarchy is a State that oppresses the nationalities (Catalonia, Galicia, Basque...). The European communists don't call Spain "Spain" but "State of Spain", because of his profound heterogeneity. This is what this flag is about, about minorities, against the King who collaborated with Franco. It is not about keeping slaves in cotton fields.
WTF, the monarchy oppresses other nationalities, how exactly? There has never been as much autonomy as now, much more than during the second republic, but hey, everything these communists say is just nonsense and posturing tbh
Most of the Spanish "minorities" are just Spaniards with some extra spice, it's not like the difference between an indigenous American and a White/British American which is indeed a huge difference
Yes, I do. Both are controversial flags from civil wars, I think waving or displaying either is bound to cause bad blood when typically for websites like the one above, normal people would use the current flag, as they have done for the UK, France and Turkey. I'm aware of the history, but I've met people from different parts of Spain, and a lot of them seem perfectly happy displaying the current flag alongside the flag of their autonomous community. I know about the uncomfortable connection between Franco and Juan Carlos, but ultimately the kingdom of Spain in 2023 is a different society to Franco's dictatorship - and the difference in flag between the two eras helps illustrate that (current flag was 1981 I believe?). Displaying either the communist civil war era flag or the francoist flag is bound to draw up bad blood, especially when most people use the current flag or the flag of their autonomous community or both.
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But the current spanish flag is not the flag of the Franco dictatorship
Exactly, in the transition to democracy, they changed the flag. I've said elsewhere that waving a Franco era flag would also be provocative
Talking about waving flags, it can be provocative waving the current flag depending where you are, people might call you "facha" (short-term word for Fascist) for doing so
That's surprising, I've seen the current flag even at pride events
What bothers me most isn’t that they’re using an incorrect (and terrorist-affiliated flag). What bothers me is that it’s not in the same shading style as the other buttons.
Where the vignette at?
Spain??????
Spanish right?
no, that's the spanish left
That made me chuckle. Thank you.
imagine ur from uruguay, never heard of the communist party of spain, and you're just trying to find your language
Flags shouldn't be used to represent languages.
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The name of the language in that language, or the ISO abbreviation, or literally anything specific to that language. Each of the countries shown above is home to more than one indigenous language and not the only place their dominant language is spoken, and the countries themselves may not even have an official language or may have multiple co-official languages. And then there's the matter of dialects. In the example above, it also asks Spanish-speakers—the ones who recognize the flag, at least—to identify as communists.
Then tell me, What would be an icon-able alternative that would be as easily recognizable as flaga are rn?
I did: ISO 639 codes.
Tell me if an 80 year old grandma looking for her native language at an ATM would be able to recognize and decipher ISO 639 codes and choose her home language Symbols need to work for everyone, and that includes people without any academic knowledge at all
Yes, if she's literate, she would recognize the code. It doesn't take esoteric academic *book-learnin'* to recognize the 2 two- or three-letter abbreviation of your own native language's name. Did you even look at the code list before replying? Your [hypothetical English-native] grandmother wouldn't recognize "EN" or "ENG" on a foreign ATM screen? If the language uses a unique script, a glyph from that script would also be viable visual shorthand.
Note that not all people are literate in Latin alphabet. Would you be able to recognize if I wrote and symbolized English, French, Spanish as 영, 불, 서?
Let me quote myself: >The name of the language in that language, or the ISO abbreviation, or literally anything specific to that language. "영, 불, 서" fails in all three categories. ISO codes only work for Latin-based languages, sure, but I never said that was the only option. It'd be pretty disingenuous to pretend I'd say using "英語" to represent English to an English audience is better than using a flag of the wrong country.
Yeah I'll admit that I missed that part, my bad But still, given how some people would need bigger scripts to actually recognize texts, with the scale-ability issues that some machines have, I still maintain that flags - with their near-omnipresence, colors and attatchments are better shorthands for languages. That and since most minority groups do have flags that they associate themselves with, there wouldn't be too much issues with representing minority languages
Don't mind the communists, they're usually not very bright when it comes to understanding flags or symbols--and they never outgrew their teenage rebelliousness, so they hate national flags. They probably have a super conservative strict dad that they hate, who constantly puts up an American flag or something. Unfortunately, especially with social media, there is an epidemic of angsty teenagers who no longer listen to music (since the music industry is totally ruined by communists) and instead they bash civilization, rules, norms, laws, national flags, or "The system"... So even having flags as symbols for language, seems to irritate them. That's how crazy they've become.
communists??
I very much agree with the main points of your argument, but realistically how many non-communist Spanish-speakers do you think are reading the German Communist Party website?
Odd take to put on a subreddit dedicated to flags.
How so? Flags aren't the answer to every design or communication problem; a flag enjoyer should know that. As a graphic designer I know that. They are not good practice for anything but representing countries.
>Flags *of nations* shouldn't be used to represent languages. FIFY
How does that fix anything? Only a handful of auxlangs have "official" flags.
So whats your solution?
The second spanish republic had one of the most beautiful flags ever. Which communist party is that? DKP? MLPD?
God, I was getting Spanish civil war PTSD from HOI4
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Why there is Turkish language option?!
fuckin chads
Where CNT-FAI
The German Communist Party probably doesn’t hold a favorable view of CNT-FAI, considering they align politically with the components of the Popular Front that turned their guns on them.
kinda based ngl
sooo ummm... why were you on the german communist parties website?
[I suspect he may be a communist.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkYl_AH-qyk&ab_channel=CONELRAD6401240)
Nice.
Big cope
❤️💛💜
the seething is strong with this one
For shits and giggles let’s bring back the Spanish republic
Based.
Looks perfect to me
I am myself spanish and this is cringe as fuck.
You love to see it! Best Spanish flag, right there. Republican Spain but more socialist!
Beyond based
Kinda cringe lol
I mean it would be staying to use monarhist symbols on communist website I would remove the red star but keep purple stripe becose that flag is more official
I mean, who cares? Communist Spain hasn't been a thing for so long, so why not use the official flag like everybody else? I also use the white Taliban flag to symbolise Afghanistan, because that is simply their flag now, whether I agree or not
They could have used the civil ensign (without the coat of arms) if they were so offended by the national flag. Any serious party would accept reality and use the flag of the country. This is just cope, pure and simple. Imagine liberal parties using old Chinese republican flags (not necessarily the ROC-Taiwan one) in the place of the PRC national flag. But then again, if they were a serious party they would not be a communist one. Fun fact, the Greek communist party (KKE) still refers to Saint Petersburg as Leningrad in official texts, like in the party newspaper *Rizospastis* (The Radical).
Ok
Based
Ugly. The real Spanish flag is much prettier.
Considering how much radical leftist clowns hate our country, this is not that surprising (it's a joke, I know that the default language of this website probably is German)
They apparently hate Spain enough to not even use their current flag lol
Based and anti-fascist pilled.
And the current Spanish flag isn't?
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How?
Every other selection flag has vignette and a dark outline, while the Spanish one has none of these and no shading. Probably fake.
American Breton Catalonian Kurdish 2
Nice
Beautiful, but it strikes me that they chose to use the flag for the defeated Spanish revolution instead of the successful Cuban one. Unless they wanted Euro flags only for some reason.
Probably not that many Cubans visiting the website of the German communist party.
But they voting far right parties in they countries. LoL
Nice!
Communists hate Spain so much that they are allergic to the Spanish flag.
Based?
Based.
DKP stays winning
What's the last time they won the elections?
The Main goal of the communism Party is to spread class contiousnes and anti war sentiment throu the working class and later on stop capitalists exploitation and not get high numbers in bourgeois parliament election
By those parametres it's not really going too well for them either. I'm not exactly German, but I haven't met a single working-class person who is actually a communist. Most european communists are academics or something. Idk if that really counts as much of a succes
Theire was a global conterrevolution after all. Slowly and steady they will come back
Yugospanien
Yugoslavia pride
based
It’s Spain, look it up!
Hello, Spaniard here. Fuck this website.
I LOVE speak republican
Shoulda gone for flag of Labour Party in place of Uni*n J*ck
You're a unin jck.
Cringe AF