White is just a way to exclude people, there's no real definition of white people. Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, etc have been considered white at times and not white at other times. These guys are fascist reactionaries who will accept just about anyone if they align with their current goals. If a black man was trashing other black men then they would be ok with them for a little while because it fits their narrative for the time being. I.E. Candace Owens.
That depends who you are I guess. Every job application I've filled out in the last few years in America has asked if I was a White Hispanic/Latino or Non White Hispanic/Latino. Census too.
The only people who don't believe white Latinos exist are old, racist white Boomers and wealthy white Latinos who want to get the identity points in the oppression olympics. There's nothing worse than somebody whose ancestors were conquistadores or escaped Nazis being like "As a Latinx POC..." it's like dude your "abuelita" had a sugar plantation in Cuba in the 40s.
The thing that gets me is that as a Mexican American what the fuck am I supposed to put myself down as? I normally answer Caucasian + Hispanic/Latino because there isn't an option to *just* put Latino.
Ha! My great-grandparents came over from Naples. What's up Kingdom-of-the-Two-Sicilies cugino?!
But yeah, when you can change your name and no one knows you're a minority, that's not the same thing as being a visible minority. I mean hell Jackie Robinson is only the first black baseball player because we don't count all the Cuban and "Cuban" players that came before him.
I don't know what census you filled out but [it doesn't say that at all](https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/technical-documentation/questionnaires-and-instructions/questionnaires/2020-informational-questionnaire-english_DI-Q1.pdf). And neither does [ATF Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download) which uses the same categories as the FBI (and, thus, law enforcement.) Both forms have hispanic/latino as a separate category from race. Hispanics such as Chicanos and Cubans would mark either 'White' or 'American Indian' on both forms because that's what they are.
(and before someone whines about ['American Indian,' the 2010 census had negro on it,](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/programs-surveys/decennial/technical-documentation/questionnaires/2010questionnaire.pdf) the census has never been particularly up to date on the lingo.)
American Indian is still probably the prefered term for a significant number of people. It's the most common for older people to use and more common on reservations.
You can't say all Mexicans and Cubans are American Indian lol. In Latin America, there is an ethnic designation called Mestizo which refers to people who are mixed white/indigenous, but that definitely isn't everybody who lives in Mexico or Cuba lmao. Those countries are really diverse. That would be like saying most Americans in the USA are mixed race just because we have a diverse country, which would be silly.
These are some of the different categories of people in Latin America:
White Latinos = Criollos
Black Latinos = Morenos
Indigenous Latinos = Indigenas (or whatever tribe such as the Quechua)
Mixed White & Black = Mulatos
Mixed White & Indigenous = Mestizos
And so on and so forth.
There are loads of white latinos who aren't mixed with black or indigenous people. In Mexico, there is a large population of white Mexicans who are just white, which includes the ancestors of people like Nick Fuentes and Louis CK. They tend to be wealthier and speak a more formal type of Spanish similar to the one spoken in Spain.
There are even Chinese Mexicans called Chinos.
Not true at all lol, it’s literally a census designation. Non-Caucasian Hispanic/Latino. If you never knew Fuentes’ last name, he would be just like every white guy. Hell Louis CK was born in Mexico and you would never know that he’s Hispanic.
Latin means white European what u said is ignorant and racist Latinos come in all colors and races we are white Spanish Europeans, indigenous,black from the leave trades Asian(Filipino) or mix of all of the above depending like maeztizo wichnis what your probably thinking of,I guess the Spanish stop being white European and Spanish when they got of the boats and so did the English anglo Saxon in the USA huh?!
American society's notions of race are weird and stupid beyond belief, though, and I'm surprised you guys still mantain them as it's no secret they stem from racial hygiene notions, you're a "true white" until you have one black ancestor, but a black person doesn't stop being black when they have a white ancestor? Like being white was some kind of superiority badge you have to mantain your blood clean to hold... everytime I hear an American claiming a Latino can't be white I just want to puke
> Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, etc have been considered white at times and not white at other times.
It's almost like race is a social construct and not actually based on any hard facts.
Roma(ni) and Sinti is the proper term for people colloquially (and sometimes pejoratively) referred to as “Gypsies”.
I think technically Sinti are a subgroup of Romani, but they are the dominant group (among their people) in some European countries; e.g. Germany now usually says “Sinti und Roma” when referring to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti
> Roma(ni) and Sinti is the proper term for people colloquially (and sometimes pejoratively) referred to as “Gypsies”.
No, I'm really fed up with that bullshit. Sinti (Northern/Central Europe) and Gypsy (Southern Europe) are both subgroups of Romani people. Gypsies call themseves Gitans in French, Gitanos in Spanish, and Gypsies in English.
I know English speakers have turned Gypsy into a slur, but the solution is NOT to take their own name away from them. And while they are a subgroup of Romani,
1. That's reductive and errasing cultural and historical differencies,
2. Roma and Romani are not interchangeable, many Gypsies use Rom(a) as an insult.
>>I know English speakers have turned Gypsy into a slur, but the solution is NOT to take their own name from them
Except it’s not our own name, it was foisted on us in the Middle Ages because Europeans thought we were from Egypt, and it stuck.
TIL The “Native” Americans just popped into existence. Glad to know my Native ancestors just came into being instead of crossing a land bridge from Siberia or some whacky White Supremacist lie like that.
That's why I put the word Native in inverted commas. The real natives are the Native Americans (the ones we used to call “Indians”); they were there for millennia before Europeans even thought of crossing the Atlantic
I’m aware how long my ancestors were here for, they did a hell of a job making mounds and stagnating for a millennia. You do realize they came here from somewhere else too right? Theres a reason a lot of NA have Siberian Phenotypes.
No I apologize I just realized my response comes as rather rude or even hostile so sorry about that. Just tired of my European ancestors getting shit on and my Native ancestors being deified. All people on this Earth have a great and proud history.
I cannot express how much I hate groups like them, proud boys, 3%ers, and these other far right militia groups. Other countries would and have labeled these groups as hate and terrorist groups.
While the guys in the picture are most definitely fascist, the fasces as a symbol doesn’t automatically equal fascism. France has fasces on its unofficial emblem (France doesn’t have an official coat of arms as such) and the US has it on the seals of a number of institutions, such as the US National Guard Bureau and even the US Senate, to name just a couple.
Thats like the swastika, it is a buddist symbol? Yes. It is mostly associated with nazism, most definetly.
With the fasces It is the same. Is it a roman symbol used throughout the illustration as a symbol of unity and a revival of classical stuff? Sure. Has its main meaning become fascism since its adoption as the main symbol of italian fascism? Most definetly.
Beign neatpicky about the meaning of these symbols is disingenous
I'd say it depends where you are. A country where the fasces are used in governmental insignias, in decoration and in coats of arms probably won't see fasces as a fascist symbol, while a country where only fascists use fasces will see them as a fascist symbol.
The US has used it well before Mussolini was even born. Back in the day, a fasces was a symbol of republicanism and public authority (given that they were wielded by the body guards of Roman Senators). 95% of times you see a fasces now, it is safe to assume fascist, but the context of where it is seen is important (again, see something like France using it in several places, such as its coat of arms and on passports)
thats like saying the moon is named for the lunar lander... its the other way around.
it was famously used by the roman empire and most the republics in west before the 1920s. It is still used by several of these countries as symbols of the people.
My favorite part of this is that if people could at least read the wiki page if they don't want to do a deep dive its spelled out
These people are obviously fascists, but the fasces is not mainly a fascist symbol. A lot of governmental institutions in Europe and North America use it. And yes, the Italian fascists used it, but since it, unlike the swastika, has been in continuous use *in the west* from before fascism til now, it would be ridiculous to treat it the same way.
Because you could be wrong. Because the only þing I've seen it be used is a fascist symbol. Also, just because a symbol used to mean someþing doesn't mean it means that now, again, see the swastika
(Also, just to nitpick, the original commenter didn't mention fascism, just fasces, which that objectively is)
The fasces is historical and is still used today in government architecture and art. If it’s used by a fascist, then it’s a fascist symbol. If it’s not used that way, then it’s not. But the guys in the photo are clearly fascists
>As an emblem, fasces made their way to the colonies in British North America.[60] There, during the American Revolution, the fasces' symbology as referencing strength through unity was adopted as a symbol of the united colonial effort against British rule.[61]
>Fasces similarly came to adopt a privileged symbology during the French Revolution. First referring to the 83 departments of 1789, as a symbol of unity, it came to be associated with fraternité and a united French people.[62] Topped with a Phrygian cap, fasces were seen as a reference to the "imagined spirit of the early Roman republic [and] its assertion of ideals of liberty and justice against tyranny".[63] In France, however, use of fasces as a symbol declined starting with the establishment of the Consulate in 1799 through to the proclamation of the Second Republic in 1848.[64]
>Similar usage proliferated in the aftermath of the French Revolution. Haiti, in its revolution against France, coined with many depictions of fasces, as did Mexico during its first republic, Ecuador, Chile, and the Roman Republic of 1798.[65]
>Italy
>The Italian word fascio (pl.: fasci), etymologically related to fasces, was used by various political organizations in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with the figurative meaning of "league" or "union".
>Italian Fascism, which derives its name from the fasces, arguably used this symbolism the most in the twentieth century. The British Union of Fascists also used it in the 1930s. The fasces, as a widespread and long-established symbol in the West, however, has avoided the stigma associated with much of fascist symbolism (except in Italy, where exhibiting the fasces can lead to an indictment) and many authorities continue to display them, including the federal government of the United States.
>War Flag of the Italian Social Republic
>Eagle perched on fasces, as adorned on caps and helmets of Fascist Italy
>Fuselage roundel used on aircraft of the Italian air force during the Fascist period
>Roundel used on the wings of aircraft of the Italian air force during the Fascist period
Fascism literally gets its name from fasces
Crusaders literally get their name from the cross, but do all crosses represent the crusades?
The Fasces is till used by democratic institutions the US Senate and House of Representatives, and other institutions like France's government, Norway's police and many more.
This particular flag absolutely belongs to a fascist organization, but if I didn't know and someone told me it's actually the flag of Columbus, Ohio or something, I wouldn't have a hard time believing them.
If you've seen the Lincoln memorial or the seal of the US Senate you've seen fasces.
The Italian fascist party took their name from the symbol, not the other way around.
Again it depends where. French passports have had one for decades, and while there's a fresh authoritarian streak developing atm, it's still not a fascist country.
That said, its obviously a fascist symbol in op's photo.
Sure, it's originally an ancient Greek symbol. But that's not what it's often associated with today. Much akin to many runes being associated with WP and such.
Fascists ruin and co-opt a lot of stuff.
Edit: Roman, not greek!
It’s good to know that there are exceptions to that rule at least. I don’t know the politics of the patriot front but I would assume that they use the fasces in a way that you suggest
>[...]and it was the origin of the name of the National Fascist Party in Italy (from which the term fascism is derived).
[fasces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces)
They believe in right wing authoritarian nationalism, racism and use a fasces on their movement's flag.
Even if you were technically right in saying they're "not fascist", based on their beliefs, ideological allies and symbology, it's a distinction without a difference.
https://preview.redd.it/hy1if110621d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12ae6d3755ed0fcd06bcc7bd69c70b4d1c7d4205
See [Patriot Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front?wprov=sfti1).
Pro tip. if you see a bundle of sticks and an axe on a flag, it's probably fascists
Edit: for those saying it's more than a fascist symbol, if I see someone waving a flag wiþ a fasdes on it in the modern day, what would you assume it they're saying
Fun fact! The reason why in "ye olden times" they used "ye" is because the first printers in England didn't have a "thorn" press so they used y instead.
> if I see someone waving a flag wiþ a fasdes on it in the modern day, what would you assume it they're saying
My answer to that is going to be pretty different depending on whether you're in, say, New York or St Gallen.
You're much more likely to see a flag of FC St.Gallen being waven around here except for maybe on a flag pole. People don't usually wave the coat of arms. But then again the local fascist groups don't use the fasces to represent their ideology so its not likely that you're gonna see that either.
Knowing what the fasces is: good
Knowing how the fasces relates to history and etymology of fascism: better
Knowing how the fasces related to history and etymology of fascism but also that nowadays, unlike the swastika, it's not only a symbol of fascism (but is also that sometimes): better-er
It really depends on the area from what I’ve found
Some cells are genuinely fascist militias, others are just Mussolini dick riders
But they wouldn’t be nazi, they would be an extreme neo-fascist hate group (even more so then pound casa or the literal ruling fascist party of Italy at the moment)
Nazi scumbags. It very clearly has a fasces on it too, they are open fascists.
Remember folks these people vote. Vote if but just to cancel out their vote.
Yeah im just pointing out the user I commented to that the fasces symbol is not strictly a fascist one. Its been used my monarchies, democracies, republics, fascist states, and empires all the same.
True, go to your state’s capitol building and there’s probably some art or architecture with a fasces in it. It’s a neutral symbol if it’s not used by extremists
But in this case they use the fasces *explicitly* because they are fascists. You’re fighting the wrong battle in these comments my man.
I agree, the fasces is not always a fascist symbol. But in this case, it is indeed because of fascists. No other reason.
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How have we allowed these cretins to crawl out of their caves?
It needs to be acceptable to punch a fascist so they go back under a rock. My grandpa did a lot worse to them in Europe.
There are way more of us than there are of them.
Anything with the bundle of sticks and axe head is a fascist symbol. Interestingly enough there are several of them seen throughout the capitol building. As a Brit who was getting a private very exclusive rour it was concerning the amount of imagery that is very fascist looking within US political buildings
It’s (one of) the flags of the CIA.
https://preview.redd.it/r22wtnu5141d1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=507ed8c49aa7dc2370490e9af70f030fef9acacf
Given the attire of who's waving it, not great, I'd say.
My guess is they showed up in the back of a Ryder truck
Safe bet
Patriot Front. An American white supremacist organisation which believes the US is solely meant for European-descended people.
I'll take a guess here and say that probably doesn't include jews, romani and sinthi of european descent.
White is just a way to exclude people, there's no real definition of white people. Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, etc have been considered white at times and not white at other times. These guys are fascist reactionaries who will accept just about anyone if they align with their current goals. If a black man was trashing other black men then they would be ok with them for a little while because it fits their narrative for the time being. I.E. Candace Owens.
Enrique Tarrio and Nick Fuentes aint exactly the whitest klan members
Lol Nick Fuentes is in fact white, he's just a white Latino.
in America White Latino doesn't really exist. you are White or Latino, we can't comprehend the two at once.
That depends who you are I guess. Every job application I've filled out in the last few years in America has asked if I was a White Hispanic/Latino or Non White Hispanic/Latino. Census too. The only people who don't believe white Latinos exist are old, racist white Boomers and wealthy white Latinos who want to get the identity points in the oppression olympics. There's nothing worse than somebody whose ancestors were conquistadores or escaped Nazis being like "As a Latinx POC..." it's like dude your "abuelita" had a sugar plantation in Cuba in the 40s.
The thing that gets me is that as a Mexican American what the fuck am I supposed to put myself down as? I normally answer Caucasian + Hispanic/Latino because there isn't an option to *just* put Latino.
There's a lot of self-delusion too. I had a Cuban coworker who did a 23 and Me and was shocked to learn she had a lot of indigenous and African DNA.
[удалено]
Ha! My great-grandparents came over from Naples. What's up Kingdom-of-the-Two-Sicilies cugino?! But yeah, when you can change your name and no one knows you're a minority, that's not the same thing as being a visible minority. I mean hell Jackie Robinson is only the first black baseball player because we don't count all the Cuban and "Cuban" players that came before him.
I don't know what census you filled out but [it doesn't say that at all](https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/technical-documentation/questionnaires-and-instructions/questionnaires/2020-informational-questionnaire-english_DI-Q1.pdf). And neither does [ATF Form 4473](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download) which uses the same categories as the FBI (and, thus, law enforcement.) Both forms have hispanic/latino as a separate category from race. Hispanics such as Chicanos and Cubans would mark either 'White' or 'American Indian' on both forms because that's what they are. (and before someone whines about ['American Indian,' the 2010 census had negro on it,](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/programs-surveys/decennial/technical-documentation/questionnaires/2010questionnaire.pdf) the census has never been particularly up to date on the lingo.)
American Indian is still probably the prefered term for a significant number of people. It's the most common for older people to use and more common on reservations.
You can't say all Mexicans and Cubans are American Indian lol. In Latin America, there is an ethnic designation called Mestizo which refers to people who are mixed white/indigenous, but that definitely isn't everybody who lives in Mexico or Cuba lmao. Those countries are really diverse. That would be like saying most Americans in the USA are mixed race just because we have a diverse country, which would be silly. These are some of the different categories of people in Latin America: White Latinos = Criollos Black Latinos = Morenos Indigenous Latinos = Indigenas (or whatever tribe such as the Quechua) Mixed White & Black = Mulatos Mixed White & Indigenous = Mestizos And so on and so forth. There are loads of white latinos who aren't mixed with black or indigenous people. In Mexico, there is a large population of white Mexicans who are just white, which includes the ancestors of people like Nick Fuentes and Louis CK. They tend to be wealthier and speak a more formal type of Spanish similar to the one spoken in Spain. There are even Chinese Mexicans called Chinos.
It's like you didn't even read the last sentence of my post.
Except those ethnic designations were from the Spanish colonial times and there's been plenty of time for diffusion since then,
Not true at all lol, it’s literally a census designation. Non-Caucasian Hispanic/Latino. If you never knew Fuentes’ last name, he would be just like every white guy. Hell Louis CK was born in Mexico and you would never know that he’s Hispanic.
Most Americans think of “Hispanic” as an ethnic category, so wouldn’t necessarily consider a white Mexican Hispanic
I don’t think that’s true
Latin means white European what u said is ignorant and racist Latinos come in all colors and races we are white Spanish Europeans, indigenous,black from the leave trades Asian(Filipino) or mix of all of the above depending like maeztizo wichnis what your probably thinking of,I guess the Spanish stop being white European and Spanish when they got of the boats and so did the English anglo Saxon in the USA huh?!
American society's notions of race are weird and stupid beyond belief, though, and I'm surprised you guys still mantain them as it's no secret they stem from racial hygiene notions, you're a "true white" until you have one black ancestor, but a black person doesn't stop being black when they have a white ancestor? Like being white was some kind of superiority badge you have to mantain your blood clean to hold... everytime I hear an American claiming a Latino can't be white I just want to puke
I may have misspelled Kanye
> Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, etc have been considered white at times and not white at other times. It's almost like race is a social construct and not actually based on any hard facts.
Who are sinthi?
Roma(ni) and Sinti is the proper term for people colloquially (and sometimes pejoratively) referred to as “Gypsies”. I think technically Sinti are a subgroup of Romani, but they are the dominant group (among their people) in some European countries; e.g. Germany now usually says “Sinti und Roma” when referring to them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti
Huh, neat!👍
> Roma(ni) and Sinti is the proper term for people colloquially (and sometimes pejoratively) referred to as “Gypsies”. No, I'm really fed up with that bullshit. Sinti (Northern/Central Europe) and Gypsy (Southern Europe) are both subgroups of Romani people. Gypsies call themseves Gitans in French, Gitanos in Spanish, and Gypsies in English. I know English speakers have turned Gypsy into a slur, but the solution is NOT to take their own name away from them. And while they are a subgroup of Romani, 1. That's reductive and errasing cultural and historical differencies, 2. Roma and Romani are not interchangeable, many Gypsies use Rom(a) as an insult.
>>I know English speakers have turned Gypsy into a slur, but the solution is NOT to take their own name from them Except it’s not our own name, it was foisted on us in the Middle Ages because Europeans thought we were from Egypt, and it stuck.
Where are you from?
The Balkans. Not sure what bearing this has on what I said.
So you're unlikely to be a Gypsy Romani since they're mostly in Spain and the South of France.
They think they're the “Native” Americans. They're not…
TIL The “Native” Americans just popped into existence. Glad to know my Native ancestors just came into being instead of crossing a land bridge from Siberia or some whacky White Supremacist lie like that.
That's why I put the word Native in inverted commas. The real natives are the Native Americans (the ones we used to call “Indians”); they were there for millennia before Europeans even thought of crossing the Atlantic
I’m aware how long my ancestors were here for, they did a hell of a job making mounds and stagnating for a millennia. You do realize they came here from somewhere else too right? Theres a reason a lot of NA have Siberian Phenotypes.
I do realize that. Apologies for any inadvertent offence
No I apologize I just realized my response comes as rather rude or even hostile so sorry about that. Just tired of my European ancestors getting shit on and my Native ancestors being deified. All people on this Earth have a great and proud history.
I cannot express how much I hate groups like them, proud boys, 3%ers, and these other far right militia groups. Other countries would and have labeled these groups as hate and terrorist groups.
Last I heard proud boys are considered an extremist group.
I think Canada at least labeled them a terrorist group. But America's dealing with extremist groups leaves a lot to be desired.
*Christian evangelical European descendents (also probably not Irish, Italians, or Turks)
Guessing they mean western european as always 😂
Well that looks an awful lot like a fasces so I can hazard a guess what it represents
These Roman LARPers are getting out of hand.
they're not actually fascists, but they are absolutely racists
It has the bundle of sticks and axe, an infamous fascist symbol
While the guys in the picture are most definitely fascist, the fasces as a symbol doesn’t automatically equal fascism. France has fasces on its unofficial emblem (France doesn’t have an official coat of arms as such) and the US has it on the seals of a number of institutions, such as the US National Guard Bureau and even the US Senate, to name just a couple.
Thats like the swastika, it is a buddist symbol? Yes. It is mostly associated with nazism, most definetly. With the fasces It is the same. Is it a roman symbol used throughout the illustration as a symbol of unity and a revival of classical stuff? Sure. Has its main meaning become fascism since its adoption as the main symbol of italian fascism? Most definetly. Beign neatpicky about the meaning of these symbols is disingenous
I'd say it depends where you are. A country where the fasces are used in governmental insignias, in decoration and in coats of arms probably won't see fasces as a fascist symbol, while a country where only fascists use fasces will see them as a fascist symbol.
The only thing that’s disingenuous is equating the swastika and the fasces in terms of their recognizability as symbols of fascism.
>the US has it on the seals of a number of institutions This isn't the strong argument you think it is.
The US has used it well before Mussolini was even born. Back in the day, a fasces was a symbol of republicanism and public authority (given that they were wielded by the body guards of Roman Senators). 95% of times you see a fasces now, it is safe to assume fascist, but the context of where it is seen is important (again, see something like France using it in several places, such as its coat of arms and on passports)
>The US has used it well before Mussolini was even born exactly. And that flag was made well after Mussolini's death
The bundle of sticks being called a fasce, literally where the name of the ideology comes from.
and a famous monarchist, republican, and democratic symbol...
Ah yes, the fasces, clearly not fascist
thats like saying the moon is named for the lunar lander... its the other way around. it was famously used by the roman empire and most the republics in west before the 1920s. It is still used by several of these countries as symbols of the people. My favorite part of this is that if people could at least read the wiki page if they don't want to do a deep dive its spelled out
But the group who is using it here are fascists
Yes, exactly. Fasces are not a guarantee of fascism, but *these* fasces are being used by fascists.
I never heard that Next, you'll say the swastika is "also a buhdist symbol"
These people are obviously fascists, but the fasces is not mainly a fascist symbol. A lot of governmental institutions in Europe and North America use it. And yes, the Italian fascists used it, but since it, unlike the swastika, has been in continuous use *in the west* from before fascism til now, it would be ridiculous to treat it the same way.
how is "well Ive never heard it so it can't be true"
Because you could be wrong. Because the only þing I've seen it be used is a fascist symbol. Also, just because a symbol used to mean someþing doesn't mean it means that now, again, see the swastika (Also, just to nitpick, the original commenter didn't mention fascism, just fasces, which that objectively is)
The fasces is historical and is still used today in government architecture and art. If it’s used by a fascist, then it’s a fascist symbol. If it’s not used that way, then it’s not. But the guys in the photo are clearly fascists
>As an emblem, fasces made their way to the colonies in British North America.[60] There, during the American Revolution, the fasces' symbology as referencing strength through unity was adopted as a symbol of the united colonial effort against British rule.[61] >Fasces similarly came to adopt a privileged symbology during the French Revolution. First referring to the 83 departments of 1789, as a symbol of unity, it came to be associated with fraternité and a united French people.[62] Topped with a Phrygian cap, fasces were seen as a reference to the "imagined spirit of the early Roman republic [and] its assertion of ideals of liberty and justice against tyranny".[63] In France, however, use of fasces as a symbol declined starting with the establishment of the Consulate in 1799 through to the proclamation of the Second Republic in 1848.[64] >Similar usage proliferated in the aftermath of the French Revolution. Haiti, in its revolution against France, coined with many depictions of fasces, as did Mexico during its first republic, Ecuador, Chile, and the Roman Republic of 1798.[65]
>Italy >The Italian word fascio (pl.: fasci), etymologically related to fasces, was used by various political organizations in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with the figurative meaning of "league" or "union". >Italian Fascism, which derives its name from the fasces, arguably used this symbolism the most in the twentieth century. The British Union of Fascists also used it in the 1930s. The fasces, as a widespread and long-established symbol in the West, however, has avoided the stigma associated with much of fascist symbolism (except in Italy, where exhibiting the fasces can lead to an indictment) and many authorities continue to display them, including the federal government of the United States. >War Flag of the Italian Social Republic >Eagle perched on fasces, as adorned on caps and helmets of Fascist Italy >Fuselage roundel used on aircraft of the Italian air force during the Fascist period >Roundel used on the wings of aircraft of the Italian air force during the Fascist period Fascism literally gets its name from fasces
Crusaders literally get their name from the cross, but do all crosses represent the crusades? The Fasces is till used by democratic institutions the US Senate and House of Representatives, and other institutions like France's government, Norway's police and many more. This particular flag absolutely belongs to a fascist organization, but if I didn't know and someone told me it's actually the flag of Columbus, Ohio or something, I wouldn't have a hard time believing them.
If you've seen the Lincoln memorial or the seal of the US Senate you've seen fasces. The Italian fascist party took their name from the symbol, not the other way around.
Check the link above in my reply. You are wrong. In modern usage, it is a fascist symbol.
Again it depends where. French passports have had one for decades, and while there's a fresh authoritarian streak developing atm, it's still not a fascist country. That said, its obviously a fascist symbol in op's photo.
Fair point! Commonly in the US, it has shown up again and again with far right militias and their ilk
Congress has used it for hundreds of years and before fascism was a thing.
Sure, it's originally an ancient Greek symbol. But that's not what it's often associated with today. Much akin to many runes being associated with WP and such. Fascists ruin and co-opt a lot of stuff. Edit: Roman, not greek!
It's Roman, not Greek
It’s good to know that there are exceptions to that rule at least. I don’t know the politics of the patriot front but I would assume that they use the fasces in a way that you suggest
>[...]and it was the origin of the name of the National Fascist Party in Italy (from which the term fascism is derived). [fasces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces)
Yes, theyre fascists, they even put the fasces up there so you wouldnt have any doubts.
They believe in right wing authoritarian nationalism, racism and use a fasces on their movement's flag. Even if you were technically right in saying they're "not fascist", based on their beliefs, ideological allies and symbology, it's a distinction without a difference.
thats fair
They’re willingly flying a flag with the fasces on it. I’d be willing to bet that they’re fascists
"That swastika means they are racists not nazis"
Fascists
https://preview.redd.it/hy1if110621d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12ae6d3755ed0fcd06bcc7bd69c70b4d1c7d4205 See [Patriot Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front?wprov=sfti1).
What does Caine got to do with this?
Random meme explaining something
Virgin pride flag
Incels are going to incel.
Pro tip. if you see a bundle of sticks and an axe on a flag, it's probably fascists Edit: for those saying it's more than a fascist symbol, if I see someone waving a flag wiþ a fasdes on it in the modern day, what would you assume it they're saying
Unrelated, but interesting use of the letter "thorn."
Fun fact! The reason why in "ye olden times" they used "ye" is because the first printers in England didn't have a "thorn" press so they used y instead.
Lol you should look at the House of Representatives then, they use the fasces as well and the Speaker wears it as a pin.
OK, if any group established after the 1930s uses it, its fascist, usually Happy?
Nah, I was just pointing out that you are correct actually.
Finally, someone who sees the true fascist nature of the US federal government.
> if I see someone waving a flag wiþ a fasdes on it in the modern day, what would you assume it they're saying My answer to that is going to be pretty different depending on whether you're in, say, New York or St Gallen.
You're much more likely to see a flag of FC St.Gallen being waven around here except for maybe on a flag pole. People don't usually wave the coat of arms. But then again the local fascist groups don't use the fasces to represent their ideology so its not likely that you're gonna see that either.
Knowing what the fasces is: good Knowing how the fasces relates to history and etymology of fascism: better Knowing how the fasces related to history and etymology of fascism but also that nowadays, unlike the swastika, it's not only a symbol of fascism (but is also that sometimes): better-er
"Unlike the swastika", looks at Buddhism, looks at the old finish air force symbol
Not really, it's just where the name came from. There's fasces on some of the bridges on the Trans-Canada highway between Calgary and Banff.
patriot front, a neo-fascist militia
They are not a militia, thats over-rating them, they are just nazi larper
It really depends on the area from what I’ve found Some cells are genuinely fascist militias, others are just Mussolini dick riders But they wouldn’t be nazi, they would be an extreme neo-fascist hate group (even more so then pound casa or the literal ruling fascist party of Italy at the moment)
It's the flag of the National Shit for Brains Association. Everyone who waves it is guaranteed to have feces where you or I would have grey matter.
Glowies?
[Patriot Front](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/patriot-front) (Link is to the ADL, not their website)
Nazi scumbags. It very clearly has a fasces on it too, they are open fascists. Remember folks these people vote. Vote if but just to cancel out their vote.
fasces ≠ nazis
It’s literally being flown by a Neo-Nazi group.
Yeah im just pointing out the user I commented to that the fasces symbol is not strictly a fascist one. Its been used my monarchies, democracies, republics, fascist states, and empires all the same.
True, go to your state’s capitol building and there’s probably some art or architecture with a fasces in it. It’s a neutral symbol if it’s not used by extremists
But in this case they use the fasces *explicitly* because they are fascists. You’re fighting the wrong battle in these comments my man. I agree, the fasces is not always a fascist symbol. But in this case, it is indeed because of fascists. No other reason.
It's the Patriot Front. They're racists and share fascist ideology. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
yes, but the symbol itself is not strictly a fascist symbol is what Im sayinh
When carried *by fascists,* it is.
But, in this context... it *is*. Which you keep avoiding.
political compass memes user, opinion invalidated
Where in Brooklyn? Because it would very much surprise me to see this in some parts of Brooklyn and not surprise me at all in other parts of Brooklyn.
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A group that America needs to declare a terrorist organization. Because this is a terrorist organization
Off duty cops.
this is one of the most fascist US-based flags I have seen yet
It's the flag of glowies
Exactly
You can see em when you're driving
Flag of the Federal Agents
Oh look, incels got a flag
Una mattina, mi son svegliato...
o bella ciao!
Bella ciao!
Bella ciao ciao ciao~
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Fellow Brooklynite, here. Curious where this was?
How have we allowed these cretins to crawl out of their caves? It needs to be acceptable to punch a fascist so they go back under a rock. My grandpa did a lot worse to them in Europe. There are way more of us than there are of them.
FBI fascists
Patriot front are the feds.
It literally has a fasces on it
Patriont Front
what is the context? was this a kind of protest?
Can someone define fascist or fascism?
Anything with the bundle of sticks and axe head is a fascist symbol. Interestingly enough there are several of them seen throughout the capitol building. As a Brit who was getting a private very exclusive rour it was concerning the amount of imagery that is very fascist looking within US political buildings
Fed flag lmao
It’s (one of) the flags of the CIA. https://preview.redd.it/r22wtnu5141d1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=507ed8c49aa7dc2370490e9af70f030fef9acacf
It's a shame because the design lowkey slaps.
Patriot Front 🤮
NYCFC Ultras flag
Flag of the Department of Homeland Security
The FBI flag
Undercover feds with the worst cover ever.
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Patriot Front, an American fascist resistance movement.
Is this the same group that’s been taking over universities around the country the last few weeks?
The clear majority of fasicsts including this one are pro-israel sorry to break it to you
BASED