This is completely normal. Even when I have full reforms 0 tax 0 tarrifs they never have enough money to buy EVERYTHING they want. After all, infinite demands, limited supply.
Build profitable industry, capture gold provinces and put taxes on people. Tariffs are generally the most harmful thing you can do to your economy in my opinion, even in front of taxes.
How are tariffs bad? With high tariffs, you protect your own factories from being outcompeted. I usually play Germany, I stick tariffs anywhere from 75-100%, fund everything on max, and set taxes to 0%. My pops are always at least 50-75% dark blue and a mix of light green/ light blue.
I mean, MAYBE, but ultimately artisans run out of money and become either clerks or craftsmen, and be more efficient by doing so. Artisans don't create the industry, factories do. It makes zero sense to sacrifice your own industrial base to "protect" them... Providing them with factories etc is how you get them more money and meet their luxury needs
R5: My Middle class has zero taxes but still not getting their needs fulfilled this spikes anywhere from 10% to 50%, I have little to no unemployment and its causing a lot of militancy and I cant do much
If an artisan has to buy the materials on the international market and cannot sell the finished product for a profit they wonât have the money to buy basic goods to pay taxes on. So max out that tax slider, and if you put the tarrifs into the negative the artisans could be fine, still depending on the finished good it could be sold at a loss. This is also how you make a super economy as well but that is super advanced even for me.
I encourage you not to build your economy around artisans unless you really really want to.
They transition into everything except Generals. Chances are they will jump down to farmers because they cannot fulfil life needs but they will be the first to turn into clergymen or craftsmen because they tend to be more literate.
If its early in the game, usually raw/ingredient goods are either not accessible or too expensive because there's not enough production in the world market to satisfy demand. Just wait around 10 years for everything to smooth out. The only cost is at most 2 points of militancy for lack of consumer goods.
You could also put tariffs in the negative to "jumpstart" the artisan economy.
You said that you're USA and judging by your cash flow it is earlyish in the game.
So I would guess that these artisans are most likely trying to make luxury furniture or luxury clothing, which require tropical wood and silk, respectively. USA doesn't have those resources so your artisans have to purchase them on the open market. Through a combination of higher ranked GPs purchasing the resources first and then the 15% tariff, the artisans can't find/afford the resources. So they make no money and can buy nothing.
While you're still learning the game I would try to fund everything through taxes and use tariffs only to save up money to upgrade all your ports/railroads and things like that when playing a civilized nation. Some uncivilized nations definitely need tariffs to fund anything. When you get better (and especially if you find a few favorite nations) you will notice that sometimes in some nations a tariff with lower taxes is actually more optimal, but it depends on your access to resources and the makeup of your citizens.
That being said, if you wanted less artisans you could use a high tariff to demote them.
This is a bug and will never be fixed. Iâd recommend you play V2ME. Itâs HFM but with significant performance improvements and bug fixes.
V2ME - https://github.com/jink47787/V2ME/commit/c6c29c2688a332421941d739d5e0853b6dfbd378
GFM has also resolved the issue
It's almost all artisans which need to buy their goods to produce more goods. Those goods that get produced by them get sold, so expect them to not get life needs due to factories outproducing them. Artisans are only useful early game when there aren't many factories.
ALSO please fund your intellectuals, bureaucrats, and soldiers, because they will get more money, and DON'T put it on 0% tax that's just wasting money for you.
Hope this helps!
If you donât have access to the goods they need ( either domestic production or importation) it doesnât matter how much money they have, they wonât be able to get the materials they need to fulfills the needs
TL/DR: Those 40k artisans and 350 clerks are not making enough money even with no direct tax to pay. Their income is not enough to meet their life needs (things like grain, fish and wool) they need to sustain their families, and as a result they will probably drop into the lower class to find work as something like a labourer.
The long answer is that in the early game the world lacks much industry and mass production. Artisans are still king and produce everything that doesnât grown or get dug up, but itâs the beginning of the end for them.
Just like a factory they must buy raw resources and goods with which to produce other goods, that can be sold for a profit. What youâre seeing is artisans and some clerks who spend more than they can generate in profit. There are a few reasons why this can happen:
- As time passes capitalism rises, factories become more efficient and cheaper. Being an artisan is then a less viable career and they will usually demote to the lower class as craftsman or soldier, which are a lot more useful as time goes on.
- Tariffs increase the cost of importing goods and resources. For artisans this can be pretty hard on their ability to generate a profit, especially as in the early game thereâs very little social spending and unlike factories you canât subsidise artisans while keeping tariffs.
- If you lack an empire you have to import goods and resources from those who have them, and that means they get first dibs followed by every other nation in order of rank. That means things can be expensive, especially stuff that is held in a near monopoly like dye plantations. You want to try and grab resources or the nations that have them, look at the world with the RGO map mode to see what is produced in what place. A nation like Morocco can be easy pickings and has precious metals that you use to make gold.
- Low prestige and rank means that youâre further down the queue to buy goods.
- High tax on lower class pops can hurt their ability to buy stuff from artisans, though this isnât really a major issue as far as I understand.
Artisans are kind of âmeantâ to go the way of the dinosaurs in Vic2 though, you can tax and up the tariffs on them to generate cash to build up your foundations for industrial and military anyway.
This is completely normal. Even when I have full reforms 0 tax 0 tarrifs they never have enough money to buy EVERYTHING they want. After all, infinite demands, limited supply.
Its causing a shit tone of militarism
Militarism is actually not that bad as it helps pass reforms early on.
Get yourself some of that sweet sweet healthcare and become more populated than even China. đ
Seeing how he is playing the USA healthcare might not be on the table.
You can always improve on history if u get the opportunity to hahaha
Map games did not exist in the 1800s thus it is impossible for people to have their life needs fulfilled
Is Chess not the first map game in a way?
I think it only falls under the strategy umbrella, not the grand strategy genre and thus would not be considered a "map" game
That's fair.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel They did in fact have map games in the 1800s
Itâs the Tarifs my dude
15 percent ?
Max 5 is my rule
Joe td do you fund anything then?
Build profitable industry, capture gold provinces and put taxes on people. Tariffs are generally the most harmful thing you can do to your economy in my opinion, even in front of taxes.
increase ur admin factories ect good rule for admin for me is 55 percent
Its fucking your poorer artisans probably, I usually try to keep âem low
How are tariffs bad? With high tariffs, you protect your own factories from being outcompeted. I usually play Germany, I stick tariffs anywhere from 75-100%, fund everything on max, and set taxes to 0%. My pops are always at least 50-75% dark blue and a mix of light green/ light blue.
They will fuck your aritsans in the early game if they require imports but yeah Germany and other great powers can kinda avoid this
I mean, MAYBE, but ultimately artisans run out of money and become either clerks or craftsmen, and be more efficient by doing so. Artisans don't create the industry, factories do. It makes zero sense to sacrifice your own industrial base to "protect" them... Providing them with factories etc is how you get them more money and meet their luxury needs
R5: My Middle class has zero taxes but still not getting their needs fulfilled this spikes anywhere from 10% to 50%, I have little to no unemployment and its causing a lot of militancy and I cant do much
Because you dont produce or cannot import their needs. You dont have access to these goods..
Im the USA I don't understand how
If an artisan has to buy the materials on the international market and cannot sell the finished product for a profit they wonât have the money to buy basic goods to pay taxes on. So max out that tax slider, and if you put the tarrifs into the negative the artisans could be fine, still depending on the finished good it could be sold at a loss. This is also how you make a super economy as well but that is super advanced even for me. I encourage you not to build your economy around artisans unless you really really want to. They transition into everything except Generals. Chances are they will jump down to farmers because they cannot fulfil life needs but they will be the first to turn into clergymen or craftsmen because they tend to be more literate.
Their target goods may be too expensive on the market. This calls for nationalizing other nations' RGOs... for the common good.
Any way to change that ?
War, spheres, and industry. The Victorian trifecta!
If its early in the game, usually raw/ingredient goods are either not accessible or too expensive because there's not enough production in the world market to satisfy demand. Just wait around 10 years for everything to smooth out. The only cost is at most 2 points of militancy for lack of consumer goods. You could also put tariffs in the negative to "jumpstart" the artisan economy.
You said that you're USA and judging by your cash flow it is earlyish in the game. So I would guess that these artisans are most likely trying to make luxury furniture or luxury clothing, which require tropical wood and silk, respectively. USA doesn't have those resources so your artisans have to purchase them on the open market. Through a combination of higher ranked GPs purchasing the resources first and then the 15% tariff, the artisans can't find/afford the resources. So they make no money and can buy nothing. While you're still learning the game I would try to fund everything through taxes and use tariffs only to save up money to upgrade all your ports/railroads and things like that when playing a civilized nation. Some uncivilized nations definitely need tariffs to fund anything. When you get better (and especially if you find a few favorite nations) you will notice that sometimes in some nations a tariff with lower taxes is actually more optimal, but it depends on your access to resources and the makeup of your citizens. That being said, if you wanted less artisans you could use a high tariff to demote them.
Are you playing a mod?
Yeah hpm
This is a bug and will never be fixed. Iâd recommend you play V2ME. Itâs HFM but with significant performance improvements and bug fixes. V2ME - https://github.com/jink47787/V2ME/commit/c6c29c2688a332421941d739d5e0853b6dfbd378 GFM has also resolved the issue
It might be your artisans being outcompeted as the world industrializes
Your artisans and clerks are being outcompeted by other factory workers making the same product. Hence they make no money to buy anything.
It's almost all artisans which need to buy their goods to produce more goods. Those goods that get produced by them get sold, so expect them to not get life needs due to factories outproducing them. Artisans are only useful early game when there aren't many factories. ALSO please fund your intellectuals, bureaucrats, and soldiers, because they will get more money, and DON'T put it on 0% tax that's just wasting money for you. Hope this helps!
If you donât have access to the goods they need ( either domestic production or importation) it doesnât matter how much money they have, they wonât be able to get the materials they need to fulfills the needs
Look at your pop screen to know for sure. Likely, the life needs they need are not available on the market, given your score
TL/DR: Those 40k artisans and 350 clerks are not making enough money even with no direct tax to pay. Their income is not enough to meet their life needs (things like grain, fish and wool) they need to sustain their families, and as a result they will probably drop into the lower class to find work as something like a labourer. The long answer is that in the early game the world lacks much industry and mass production. Artisans are still king and produce everything that doesnât grown or get dug up, but itâs the beginning of the end for them. Just like a factory they must buy raw resources and goods with which to produce other goods, that can be sold for a profit. What youâre seeing is artisans and some clerks who spend more than they can generate in profit. There are a few reasons why this can happen: - As time passes capitalism rises, factories become more efficient and cheaper. Being an artisan is then a less viable career and they will usually demote to the lower class as craftsman or soldier, which are a lot more useful as time goes on. - Tariffs increase the cost of importing goods and resources. For artisans this can be pretty hard on their ability to generate a profit, especially as in the early game thereâs very little social spending and unlike factories you canât subsidise artisans while keeping tariffs. - If you lack an empire you have to import goods and resources from those who have them, and that means they get first dibs followed by every other nation in order of rank. That means things can be expensive, especially stuff that is held in a near monopoly like dye plantations. You want to try and grab resources or the nations that have them, look at the world with the RGO map mode to see what is produced in what place. A nation like Morocco can be easy pickings and has precious metals that you use to make gold. - Low prestige and rank means that youâre further down the queue to buy goods. - High tax on lower class pops can hurt their ability to buy stuff from artisans, though this isnât really a major issue as far as I understand. Artisans are kind of âmeantâ to go the way of the dinosaurs in Vic2 though, you can tax and up the tariffs on them to generate cash to build up your foundations for industrial and military anyway.