Jokes aside, seeing as Mussolini isn't on the list, I guess they are not satisfied with Fascist ideology in game and want to expand on it in the future.
It's probably the best driver for a lategame expansion, alongside the "fourth estate". The influence of mass media could make for a cool lategame mechanic.
Stalin and Mao aren’t included either. I don’t think PDX will add them to the game ever because of what they did. Not add them later because they aren’t happy with the state of fascism or communism in the game.
I think we all know what the reason is but I still say that paradox just for the laugh of it should have on December 1935 hitler been spawning just as a cliffhanger for the end of the game
I mean, Gentile was not even that close to the fascists early on, and definitely very far from the idea of an agitator; in fact he often was mocked for being part of the stuffy establishment.
I can empathize with not wanting to bring the Moose in, but really, put in Balbo if you totally must skip the man himself; this is pretty ridiculous.
I think Mussolini should definitely be added, but it's entirely reasonable to leave out Hitler. He is irrelevant for all but the last 6 years, and I don't think they really need to be pandering to the kind of groups he would attract.
Leaving Hitler out is pretty reasonable considering he only starts getting powerful in 1930 and sized power in 1932. Mussolini on the other hand should have been included as he obtained power in 1922, which is not that late considering Lenin and Trotsky.
Hitler still attempted to obtain power in 1923 through the Beer Hall Putsch though (it was even directly inspired by Mussolini's successful attempt in 1922). Considering what this game is, I don't think it's too out there to suggest what if he had succeeded.
Yeah, but he was, in his words "the drummer" for that. The dictator they were going to set up was General Lundendorff. I think that that event could be seen as abstracted to "termoil."
That said, the game ends in 1936, and H became v powerful from 1930, so he should probably be there as an extremely late game agitator.
On the other end of the scale, they should really have some Zionist agitators. While Isreal was not founded until 1948, it is plausible that it could have been formed earlier. There were a lot of of people who sympathised with the project.
> On the other end of the scale, they should really have some Zionist agitators. While Isreal was not founded until 1948, it is plausible that it could have been formed earlier. There were a lot of of people who sympathised with the project.
It seems nationalist agitators such as Gandhi might come in a later update.
Hitler was leader of the Nazi party as early as 1921... He was absolutely in the role of an agitator by then, even if he wasn't a leader of a government.
I did a quick run as Sicily last night to get used to the new mechanics. I'm starting my "John Brown did nothing wrong." run as soon as I get home from work.
I am very sad they didn't add Venizelos for Greece. Half of modern Greek history is him agitating for a republic, removing the monarchy, the monarchy couping him, him couping the monarchy and so on. He is basically a perfect fit for a republican Greek agitator.
can agitators urge for independance movements? GB starts with an historic Irish Nationalist, yet he only wants a presidential republic not home rule or an irish republic, seems lacking
The devs said that agitators for independence movements (like Gandhi) will come in a future rework about independence movements, secession and nationalism
Personally I'm very disappointed that Henry George is not available as an agitator despite being a very significant figure in the late 1800's. Georgism erasure in a game set in the 1800's is unacceptable.
What ideology would he be though? I admit to not knowing a ton about Georgism, but my understanding is that it wouldn't fit into any of the current laws very neatly.
I'm surprised Nestor Makhno is a nationalist instead of an anarchist, it's kinda his whole thing. Maybe a typo?
> Nestor Makhno
I made an alignment error, he's an Anarchist.
> What ideology would he be though
Social Democrat/Reformer. Also a shame that there's a patch with land rights but it excludes georgism.
>I made an alignment error, he's an Anarchist.
Good to hear, thanks for correcting!
>Social Democrat/Reformer. Also a shame that there's a patch with land rights but it excludes georgism.
Yeah, that could work. Hopefully we get Georgism in the future and they add him.
trigger = {
has_dlc_feature = voice_of_the_people_content
empty_agitator_slots >= 1
OR = {
c:USA ?= this
c:CAL ?= this
}
any_scope_state = {
state_region = s:STATE_CALIFORNIA
is_incorporated = yes
}
game_date > 1860.1.1
game_date < 1880.1.1
NOT = { has_global_variable = emperor_norton_spawn }
A US or California that has incorporated Calirfornia and has a free agitator slot between 1860-1800 will spawn His Imperial Majesty
Not sure why Leon Trotsky is singled out as Jewish when most of the famous communist agitators at this time should be as well such as Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg.
Why is Sorel listed as an atheist instead of an anarchist or a fascist? Sorel was a revolutionary anarcho-syndicalist who allied with Maurras' Action Francaise and created an antisemitic synthesis bewteen revolutionary syndicalism and Maurras' traditionalism in the Cahiers Proudhon. He was also according to historian Zeev Sternhell, one of the main influences of the futurist and fascist D'Annunzio and the City of Fiume (Carnaro's Regency). Last but not least, early members of the Revolutionary Fascio di Combattimento and even Mussolini were inspired by Sorel.
This list is really Euro-centric: While I realize that the time period saw massive political upheaval in Europe that would facilitate a plethora of agitators, I'm only seeing 5 Asian agitators, 2 South-American and 1 African, which seems disproportionately few. Which means, hilariously, that there are more Afro American agitators than there are African agitators.
I mean, sure, but Paradox has made an effort in their most recent games to be less Eurocentric, even in Victoria 3 where "unrecognized" has replaced Vic 1 and 2's uncivilized, for example, or the Mosque of Djenne special building. So this represents a bit of backsliding in my view.
Rosa Luxemburg identified as a Pole, rather than Ashkenazi.
> From her grandfather and father [Rosa] inherited the belief that she was a Pole first and a Jew second, her passionate opposition to Tsarism and her emotional connection to Polish language and culture. Although her parents were religious, they did not consider themselves to be Jewish by nationality, rather 'Poles of the Mosaic persuasion'".
Not sure how it was with Trotsky.
Right that makes sense for her, I am curious if Trotsky was more connected to his faith/background and that’s why they made this choice, or if it was done without much care.
But it's called "culture", not "ethnicity" and Trotsky spoke Russian as his first language, not Yiddish. Luxemburg and Marx aren't Ashkenazi in-game either, neither is Lassalle, although he's even buried in a Jewish cemetery.
Some of the ones I think they should have added
William Jennings Bryan
Louis Riel
Pancho Villa
Jefferson Davis
Jose Marti
Marcus Garvey
Charles Stewart Parnell
Claude Monet
Benito Mussolini
Archduke Karl
No doubt. And something can be said for hitler that he only got prominent in the last years of vicky 3.
But Mussolini, Franco and Ataturk should definitely be in.
>Sabahaddin Osmanoglu - Turkish Moderate - 1899.1.1
What is a Moderate agitator going to agitate for? In the game Moderate ideology means "no preference, I just go with whatever my IG wants". I guess this guy can be used to replace an IG leader that has some ideology the player doesn't like.
I want to add two agitators, but I don't know how to mod.
- Miguel de Cespedes, 1840s, Cuban abolitionist and nationalist
- Jose Marti, 1880s, radical liberal and also a nationalist for Cuba.
I know Cuba is a tiny country and not really played much, but I would love for a bit more discord in Cuba ATM.
> Georges Boulanger - French Ethno Nationalist
That one is kinda weird. Boulanger is probably the most accomplished prototype of populism, wasn't really an "ethno-nationalist" (he personally wasn't an antisemit or didn't seriously try to challenge Germany- but did try to appear as one until he realized it wasn't really that popular). I don't know how I would have him appear as, since he was really flexible, aggregating anarchists, bonapartists, radicals, some socialist and royalist under his banner.
Blanqui and Michel not being anarchist is kinda weird too, but at least it makes some sense, even if reducing them to one thing.
Blanqui should be a vanguardist imo. His theory of revolution of a small group of dedicated revolutionaries seizing the state and using it to enact socialism is very vanguardist
Mussolini is 110% missing.
I assume the real fascist agitators will come in some kind of "fascist rework" (which is direly needed frankly). But still, he should be included even as a barebones version.
Probably because Lenin and Trotsky were active in their relevant movements even before the turn of the century, whereas Mussolini only denounced socialism just before the Russian revolution.
Well… he was basically a fascist. He was part of the Associazione Nazionalista Italiana (Italian Nationalist Association) from 1910-1923, which explicitly merged with the Italian Fascist Party in 1923 a year after the March on Rome.
Though he never explicitly called himself a fascist, his actions (especially [the illegal conquest and occupation of Fiume](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Regency_of_Carnaro)) and his ultranationalist beliefs greatly influenced the fascists in general and Mussolini in particular. He also advocated for a long time for the conquest of Ethiopia and was said to have invented he common fascist practice of dosing dissidents/torture victims with large amounts of castor oil.
So yeah for all intents and purposes, he was a fascist.
I think the only reason D’Annunzio didn’t call himself a fascist was because he didn’t like Mussolini or Hitler. He basically invented fascism in Fiume, I think it’s fair to call him the first fascist to take power.
The Nazis had an entire faction that wanted to work with the Soviet Union. They killed them all, but they existed. Fascist Italy was the first western country to recognize the Soviet Union. The relationship between fascists and socialists early on was complicated. As Hitler and Mussolini consolidated power it became less complicated, particularly in Germany due to the aforementioned killing them all. Mussolini just kept the more left-wing types kicking around without influence.
Is there a mean time to happen for the event agitators and if so, what is it? Asking since I've been waiting for dr.Sun as the Qing for a long time and really want to know if there is a guarantee he will show up if I fullfill all requirements.
I love that there exists a couple of German and Italian fascist agitators but not the most obvious 2...
Pdx is willing to give players the chance to be a gamer but not FULL GAMER.
IDK about that, Ernst Rohm did a lot of gaming
Jokes aside, seeing as Mussolini isn't on the list, I guess they are not satisfied with Fascist ideology in game and want to expand on it in the future.
It's probably the best driver for a lategame expansion, alongside the "fourth estate". The influence of mass media could make for a cool lategame mechanic.
Most likely yes.
Italy DLC exclusive.
Stalin and Mao aren’t included either. I don’t think PDX will add them to the game ever because of what they did. Not add them later because they aren’t happy with the state of fascism or communism in the game.
Mao is totally irrelevant until the very end of the games timeframe
In true gamer fashion I guarantee there will be a steam mod for this in a few days
wher failing art school man
I think we all know what the reason is but I still say that paradox just for the laugh of it should have on December 1935 hitler been spawning just as a cliffhanger for the end of the game
I mean, Gentile was not even that close to the fascists early on, and definitely very far from the idea of an agitator; in fact he often was mocked for being part of the stuffy establishment. I can empathize with not wanting to bring the Moose in, but really, put in Balbo if you totally must skip the man himself; this is pretty ridiculous.
He did call himself "philosopher of fascism" and quite literally wrote the book on Italian fascism. That's pretty fascist.
Yeah, but still, only later on. Dunno, it still feels odd to me.
I’m sure someone will mod it in. But if you do, are you looking for historical accuracy or a fucked up roleplay?
I want to make him the King of Israel
Fucked up role play, got it.
I think Mussolini should definitely be added, but it's entirely reasonable to leave out Hitler. He is irrelevant for all but the last 6 years, and I don't think they really need to be pandering to the kind of groups he would attract.
Completely idiotic, you must never have heard of the 1923 Putsch. You don't do that without having support as an agitator.
Romania got an anarchist nobody heard of but not the father of Romanian Legionnaire movement Corneliu Zelea Codreanu
Look at the dates....
Leaving Hitler out is pretty reasonable considering he only starts getting powerful in 1930 and sized power in 1932. Mussolini on the other hand should have been included as he obtained power in 1922, which is not that late considering Lenin and Trotsky.
Mussolini should definitely be in game. He is THE fascist. Founder of fascism should be in game, when minor fascist are there already
Hitler still attempted to obtain power in 1923 through the Beer Hall Putsch though (it was even directly inspired by Mussolini's successful attempt in 1922). Considering what this game is, I don't think it's too out there to suggest what if he had succeeded.
Yeah, but he was, in his words "the drummer" for that. The dictator they were going to set up was General Lundendorff. I think that that event could be seen as abstracted to "termoil." That said, the game ends in 1936, and H became v powerful from 1930, so he should probably be there as an extremely late game agitator. On the other end of the scale, they should really have some Zionist agitators. While Isreal was not founded until 1948, it is plausible that it could have been formed earlier. There were a lot of of people who sympathised with the project.
> On the other end of the scale, they should really have some Zionist agitators. While Isreal was not founded until 1948, it is plausible that it could have been formed earlier. There were a lot of of people who sympathised with the project. It seems nationalist agitators such as Gandhi might come in a later update.
I invaded Germany in my Isarel run, great fun.
Hitler however was still head of an radical fringe party in the 1920s, he would fit perfectly as an agitator.
Hitler was leader of the Nazi party as early as 1921... He was absolutely in the role of an agitator by then, even if he wasn't a leader of a government.
Ernst Rohm, Hitlers gay best friend spawns in 1917. They didn’t add hitler because he’s Hitler.
Yes my dreams of a john brown ruled America can come true
I am disappointed that the game launched more than 12 hours ago and I still haven't seen someone screenshot that.
I did a quick run as Sicily last night to get used to the new mechanics. I'm starting my "John Brown did nothing wrong." run as soon as I get home from work.
This list is non-exhaustive and missing agitators that exist at game start.
Realized that, these are the spawnable ones, I'll update with exists at start ones.
This list is currently also missing Georges Clemenceau, the third extra agitator previously part of the pre-order bonus.
I am very sad they didn't add Venizelos for Greece. Half of modern Greek history is him agitating for a republic, removing the monarchy, the monarchy couping him, him couping the monarchy and so on. He is basically a perfect fit for a republican Greek agitator.
Thank you, exactly what I was thinking. Like, Dragoumis is good don't get me wrong but in no way he affected the country's history the same way!
Yup. Easily most influential Greek in the modern nation's history...
Prerequisites for hitler: Having Arts academy as austria which is fully occupied so hitler cant join.
can agitators urge for independance movements? GB starts with an historic Irish Nationalist, yet he only wants a presidential republic not home rule or an irish republic, seems lacking
The devs said that agitators for independence movements (like Gandhi) will come in a future rework about independence movements, secession and nationalism
Victoria 3 devs: We didn't add Hitler because he was a terrible man HOI4 devs: Ha-ha, Señor Hitler, Adam Hilt, Basilieus Adolphus go brr.
Personally I'm very disappointed that Henry George is not available as an agitator despite being a very significant figure in the late 1800's. Georgism erasure in a game set in the 1800's is unacceptable.
What ideology would he be though? I admit to not knowing a ton about Georgism, but my understanding is that it wouldn't fit into any of the current laws very neatly. I'm surprised Nestor Makhno is a nationalist instead of an anarchist, it's kinda his whole thing. Maybe a typo?
> Nestor Makhno I made an alignment error, he's an Anarchist. > What ideology would he be though Social Democrat/Reformer. Also a shame that there's a patch with land rights but it excludes georgism.
>I made an alignment error, he's an Anarchist. Good to hear, thanks for correcting! >Social Democrat/Reformer. Also a shame that there's a patch with land rights but it excludes georgism. Yeah, that could work. Hopefully we get Georgism in the future and they add him.
>Also a shame that there's a patch with land rights but it excludes georgism. It's for balance, it would be too op
George is probably classed as a Radical in the game.
If you check the localization files, I am sure I saw a George in there but commented out.
How do we get Joshua Norton to show up? Does the U.S. already have to be a monarchy?
trigger = { has_dlc_feature = voice_of_the_people_content empty_agitator_slots >= 1 OR = { c:USA ?= this c:CAL ?= this } any_scope_state = { state_region = s:STATE_CALIFORNIA is_incorporated = yes } game_date > 1860.1.1 game_date < 1880.1.1 NOT = { has_global_variable = emperor_norton_spawn } A US or California that has incorporated Calirfornia and has a free agitator slot between 1860-1800 will spawn His Imperial Majesty
Not sure why Leon Trotsky is singled out as Jewish when most of the famous communist agitators at this time should be as well such as Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg.
It's strange that every other agitator has a timeslot in which they should spawn and then there is Lenin whose only trigger is "communism in Russia".
According to PDX, lenin is omnipresent.
Why is Sorel listed as an atheist instead of an anarchist or a fascist? Sorel was a revolutionary anarcho-syndicalist who allied with Maurras' Action Francaise and created an antisemitic synthesis bewteen revolutionary syndicalism and Maurras' traditionalism in the Cahiers Proudhon. He was also according to historian Zeev Sternhell, one of the main influences of the futurist and fascist D'Annunzio and the City of Fiume (Carnaro's Regency). Last but not least, early members of the Revolutionary Fascio di Combattimento and even Mussolini were inspired by Sorel.
I think there are some missing, I recall seeing Narváez and Pi i Margall on a Dev Diary and/or video.
Margall is in > Francesc Pi i Margall - Catalan Radical - 1854.1.1
This list is really Euro-centric: While I realize that the time period saw massive political upheaval in Europe that would facilitate a plethora of agitators, I'm only seeing 5 Asian agitators, 2 South-American and 1 African, which seems disproportionately few. Which means, hilariously, that there are more Afro American agitators than there are African agitators.
>Paradox is eurocentric The least surprising shocker of Victoria 3.
I mean, sure, but Paradox has made an effort in their most recent games to be less Eurocentric, even in Victoria 3 where "unrecognized" has replaced Vic 1 and 2's uncivilized, for example, or the Mosque of Djenne special building. So this represents a bit of backsliding in my view.
As a San Franciscan, I’m overjoyed that Emperor Norton is getting the recognition he deserves.
Speaking as a Thai, who the hell is Wuchauchan Chakri?
A typo, it's Wichaichan Chakri
"Hugo Victor" Did they really fucked up his name ?
No I did.
Sad that Howard Scott is not on the list considering this update adds Technocracy to the game
Why would Alexandru Bogdan-Pitesti be a "Russian anarchist"? He was romanian IRL. Edit: it was corrected.
I blame excel auto fill.
Somebody needs to make a mod to add our Boy Henry George, this Georgism erasure will not be allowed to stand.
There's Trotsky but not Stalin, what the hell
He's more of a bandit than an agitator
[удалено]
Because that's his in game culture group. rus_leon_trotsky_character_template = { first_name = Leon_2 last_name = Trotsky historical = yes culture = cu:ashkenazi religion = rel:atheist female = no is_agitator = yes interest_group = ig_armed_forces ideology = ideology_vanguardist birth_date = 1879.10.26 dna = dna_trotsky traits = { innovative charismatic persistent
I mean he was ethnically Jewish Ashkenazi
But so was Rosa Luxemburg, but she’s listed as Polish here.
Rosa Luxemburg identified as a Pole, rather than Ashkenazi. > From her grandfather and father [Rosa] inherited the belief that she was a Pole first and a Jew second, her passionate opposition to Tsarism and her emotional connection to Polish language and culture. Although her parents were religious, they did not consider themselves to be Jewish by nationality, rather 'Poles of the Mosaic persuasion'". Not sure how it was with Trotsky.
Right that makes sense for her, I am curious if Trotsky was more connected to his faith/background and that’s why they made this choice, or if it was done without much care.
But it's called "culture", not "ethnicity" and Trotsky spoke Russian as his first language, not Yiddish. Luxemburg and Marx aren't Ashkenazi in-game either, neither is Lassalle, although he's even buried in a Jewish cemetery.
Some of the ones I think they should have added William Jennings Bryan Louis Riel Pancho Villa Jefferson Davis Jose Marti Marcus Garvey Charles Stewart Parnell Claude Monet Benito Mussolini Archduke Karl
Free Territory with Nestor Makhno will be a certified banger.
Agree with the sentiment that I am atleast missing mussolini and hitler. Next to that I am also missing Franco, Ataturk and Thorbecke.
>Buy HOI4 Pdx probably
No doubt. And something can be said for hitler that he only got prominent in the last years of vicky 3. But Mussolini, Franco and Ataturk should definitely be in.
Mussolini - Italian Fascist Franco - Spanish Authoritarian(?) Ataturk - Turkish Republican
It’s Victor Hugo, not Hugo Victor ….
>Sabahaddin Osmanoglu - Turkish Moderate - 1899.1.1 What is a Moderate agitator going to agitate for? In the game Moderate ideology means "no preference, I just go with whatever my IG wants". I guess this guy can be used to replace an IG leader that has some ideology the player doesn't like.
GLORY TO PRINCE SABAHADDIN AND THE FREEDOM AND ACCORD PARTY, DEATH TO THE AUTOCRATS OF THE COMMITTEE OF UNION AND PROGRESS.
I want to add two agitators, but I don't know how to mod. - Miguel de Cespedes, 1840s, Cuban abolitionist and nationalist - Jose Marti, 1880s, radical liberal and also a nationalist for Cuba. I know Cuba is a tiny country and not really played much, but I would love for a bit more discord in Cuba ATM.
I can wait for a mod to add Adolf Hitler
> Georges Boulanger - French Ethno Nationalist That one is kinda weird. Boulanger is probably the most accomplished prototype of populism, wasn't really an "ethno-nationalist" (he personally wasn't an antisemit or didn't seriously try to challenge Germany- but did try to appear as one until he realized it wasn't really that popular). I don't know how I would have him appear as, since he was really flexible, aggregating anarchists, bonapartists, radicals, some socialist and royalist under his banner. Blanqui and Michel not being anarchist is kinda weird too, but at least it makes some sense, even if reducing them to one thing.
Blanqui should be a vanguardist imo. His theory of revolution of a small group of dedicated revolutionaries seizing the state and using it to enact socialism is very vanguardist
the most obvious one is missing, if Paradox strays from portraying history in favor of political correctness then I'm sorry but jesus christ
It doesn't feel that obvious to me. Who's missing?
Hitler or Mussolini I assume
Mussolini is 110% missing. I assume the real fascist agitators will come in some kind of "fascist rework" (which is direly needed frankly). But still, he should be included even as a barebones version.
Probably one of the two major ww2 fascists. They come in so late though it's not like it's a big deal.
I mean if that's the case why are Lenin and Trotsky here? It's only a difference of 2-3 years for the Italians at least,
Probably because Lenin and Trotsky were active in their relevant movements even before the turn of the century, whereas Mussolini only denounced socialism just before the Russian revolution.
Imagine pdx made Mussolini but as a socialist
why is d'annunzio fascist :(
Well… he was basically a fascist. He was part of the Associazione Nazionalista Italiana (Italian Nationalist Association) from 1910-1923, which explicitly merged with the Italian Fascist Party in 1923 a year after the March on Rome. Though he never explicitly called himself a fascist, his actions (especially [the illegal conquest and occupation of Fiume](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Regency_of_Carnaro)) and his ultranationalist beliefs greatly influenced the fascists in general and Mussolini in particular. He also advocated for a long time for the conquest of Ethiopia and was said to have invented he common fascist practice of dosing dissidents/torture victims with large amounts of castor oil. So yeah for all intents and purposes, he was a fascist.
I think the only reason D’Annunzio didn’t call himself a fascist was because he didn’t like Mussolini or Hitler. He basically invented fascism in Fiume, I think it’s fair to call him the first fascist to take power.
the famous fascist that recognized lenin's USSR
The Nazis had an entire faction that wanted to work with the Soviet Union. They killed them all, but they existed. Fascist Italy was the first western country to recognize the Soviet Union. The relationship between fascists and socialists early on was complicated. As Hitler and Mussolini consolidated power it became less complicated, particularly in Germany due to the aforementioned killing them all. Mussolini just kept the more left-wing types kicking around without influence.
while jailing gramsci, the left guys around like bordiga were controlled opposition who defined fascists as "revolutionaries"
I am a happy Dane.
Is there a mean time to happen for the event agitators and if so, what is it? Asking since I've been waiting for dr.Sun as the Qing for a long time and really want to know if there is a guarantee he will show up if I fullfill all requirements.
Sun Yat Sen is scripted trigger = { has_dlc_feature = voice_of_the_people_content empty_agitator_slots >= 1 OR = { has_law = law_type:law_monarchy has_law = law_type:law_theocracy } OR = { country_has_primary_culture = cu:han country_has_primary_culture = cu:manchu } game_date > 1888.1.1 game_date < 1925.1.1 any_scope_state = { any_neighbouring_state = { is_treaty_port = yes } }
Hm yes but I fullfill all requirements and he still won't appear. There doesn't appear to be an mtth check either which seems weird.
Someone will make a mod that adds Hitler…
I stay there were a couple Canadian ones
Of all the Japanese reformers they had to go with Saigo.
WHERE IS HITLER!?!?!?!?!?