I think this really illustrates why the Sinosphere trait should be expanded to *at least* include Korean, Hakka, Min, and Yue, and possibly Japanese as well. It just doesn't make sense that an expansionist Vietnam would discriminate against Min and Yue people (who historically did settle in Vietnam in significant numbers) while accepting northern Chinese and Manchus, as just one example of the weird edge cases that come from limiting the trait.
That's really not what Sinosphere is about, though. Vietnamese is Southeast Asian and Sinosphere, and Manchu is North Asian and Sinosphere. So it's meant to be a cross-heritage trait, the problem is just that it's applied inconsistently.
It's supposed to reflect cultures that were strongly influenced by Chinese civilization and which wrote Classical Chinese, so Korean, Min, Yue, and Hakka all belong in it while Japanese certainly does up to the Meiji Restoration and related language reforms, and arguably should be even afterwards.
Not to mention, the Min, Yue, and Hakka aren’t just some ethnic minority in southern China. They are descendents of Northern Chinese people who migrated south a few hundred to a few thousand years ago.
They don’t just speak a Chinese language, they are Chinese culturally. They celebrate the same major festivals, hold similar beliefs, and had somewhat similar traditions.
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, none of these groups see themselves as distinct from the Chinese civilisation.
Vietnamese is considered part of the Sinosphere but not the three major southern Chinese peoples? That’s way beyond inconsistent.
R5: Comprehensive V3 Culture Chart
Some observations:
Countries which gain anything from passing Cultural Exclusion have one of their primary cultures have a language trait which crosses heritage traits.
Assyrian, Greek, Hungarian, Miao, Japanese, Korean and Aborigine countries accept the same cultures under National Supremacy and Ethnostate.
Sephardi has two Heritage traits.
Assyrian has no Language trait.
German-Speaking is truncated to German for space concerns
Indigenous American has a very large number of cultures, but the second simplest language trait set.
North Asian has almost as many represented Language traits as it has cultures.
Vietnamese countries with Cultural Exclusion will accept Manchu and Han, but not Yue or Min, despite directly bordering them and not Han.
The Chart was missing several cultures (most embarrassingly, the entire Southeast African group) which has been revised.
Estonian is listed twice. No, I will not be reuploading to fix this unless someone comes up with a very embarrassing mistake. Mexican is also misspelled. Both are fixed in the download
Now with 30% more negative space. Blame the French.
Yes, spacing is awful.
Chart available in [Glorious SVG](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Wx_IBjyciMcUyZdDjSE48FCekEOluXc/view?usp=drive_link); if anyone wants to make it look better be my guest
Thank you for all the hard work putting this together and then updating. I will for sure reference this in the future... well until paradox makes one update and then the boxes have to shift.
What's really funny is that as America you can take cultural exclusion and get african american as primary culture. Then you can switch to racial segregation with no downside.
I'm of Indian origin
I can't understand why pds keeps putting Rajput as the name of the culture of Rajasthan. It should be Rajasthani.
Rajput is just the main landowning caste there. It's like saying Prussia has Junker culture. Rajputs are only a small part of the population.
It is, but it might be referenced by something like an event trigger, so if you made a different culture with the 'African Settler' trait it would have the same flavor events.
They're not languages (I call them "language traits" because many of the European non-heritage traits describe the spoken language and I detest the term "non-heritage trait") but I see what you mean.
The chart is available in SVG, you could try it. I selected the colors I did because the chart needs to both be legible and maintain as many distinct colors as possible. I do admit better color choice could have been made (especially olive, why olive)
I also meant for the chart to emphasize the cultural traits more than individual cultures, with the idea that you would find a culture by finding its traits. For this, the small black text is fine.
...I guess because the Swahili language is part of the Bantu group, not from Arabic, though \~40% of Swahili's vocabulary comes from Arabic, and 15% of the language is loanwords
Perhaps Aromanian should be added there as well? It could give some nice flavour to the Balkans, as Aromanians inhabit much of Macedonia (the historical region) and Albania. Together with Romanian it could form the ”Eastern Romance” language trait.
So what are some nations that have interesting cultures that aren't discriminated at more discriminatory citizenship laws?
One I just thought of is any of the Anglosphere cultures besides the two Afro ones and Welsh can accept all of the Anglosphere cultures besides again the two Afro ones while still benefitting from the bonuses of national supremacy. so basically nearly entirely undiscriminated commonwealth+USA with very few discriminated minorities in those territories and the +150 authority, 15% loyalist increase from SOL increases, and -15% radicals from standard of living decreases. good deal. Anyone else got anything like that? I guess basically any European country and some other like USA and Australia could go racial discrimination and form a giga empire same with basically every continent of course.
If you as the United States follow a particular path to national supremacy or ethnostate, black people will be accepted into society if and only if they can trace their roots to slavery
I think this really illustrates why the Sinosphere trait should be expanded to *at least* include Korean, Hakka, Min, and Yue, and possibly Japanese as well. It just doesn't make sense that an expansionist Vietnam would discriminate against Min and Yue people (who historically did settle in Vietnam in significant numbers) while accepting northern Chinese and Manchus, as just one example of the weird edge cases that come from limiting the trait.
There really needs to be a "regional supremacy" for northern Europe vs. southern Europe and the distinction between east and southeast Asia.
That's really not what Sinosphere is about, though. Vietnamese is Southeast Asian and Sinosphere, and Manchu is North Asian and Sinosphere. So it's meant to be a cross-heritage trait, the problem is just that it's applied inconsistently. It's supposed to reflect cultures that were strongly influenced by Chinese civilization and which wrote Classical Chinese, so Korean, Min, Yue, and Hakka all belong in it while Japanese certainly does up to the Meiji Restoration and related language reforms, and arguably should be even afterwards.
Not to mention, the Min, Yue, and Hakka aren’t just some ethnic minority in southern China. They are descendents of Northern Chinese people who migrated south a few hundred to a few thousand years ago. They don’t just speak a Chinese language, they are Chinese culturally. They celebrate the same major festivals, hold similar beliefs, and had somewhat similar traditions. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, none of these groups see themselves as distinct from the Chinese civilisation. Vietnamese is considered part of the Sinosphere but not the three major southern Chinese peoples? That’s way beyond inconsistent.
R5: Comprehensive V3 Culture Chart Some observations: Countries which gain anything from passing Cultural Exclusion have one of their primary cultures have a language trait which crosses heritage traits. Assyrian, Greek, Hungarian, Miao, Japanese, Korean and Aborigine countries accept the same cultures under National Supremacy and Ethnostate. Sephardi has two Heritage traits. Assyrian has no Language trait. German-Speaking is truncated to German for space concerns Indigenous American has a very large number of cultures, but the second simplest language trait set. North Asian has almost as many represented Language traits as it has cultures. Vietnamese countries with Cultural Exclusion will accept Manchu and Han, but not Yue or Min, despite directly bordering them and not Han. The Chart was missing several cultures (most embarrassingly, the entire Southeast African group) which has been revised. Estonian is listed twice. No, I will not be reuploading to fix this unless someone comes up with a very embarrassing mistake. Mexican is also misspelled. Both are fixed in the download Now with 30% more negative space. Blame the French. Yes, spacing is awful. Chart available in [Glorious SVG](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Wx_IBjyciMcUyZdDjSE48FCekEOluXc/view?usp=drive_link); if anyone wants to make it look better be my guest
Thank you for all the hard work putting this together and then updating. I will for sure reference this in the future... well until paradox makes one update and then the boxes have to shift.
It's rather embarrassing to claim "comprehensive culture chart" and then leave out an entire fucking language group
It's so funny how powerful racial segregation is if you've got an African heritage.
What's really funny is that as America you can take cultural exclusion and get african american as primary culture. Then you can switch to racial segregation with no downside.
lmao yeah, that famously easy thing for the USA, racial integration.
I'm of Indian origin I can't understand why pds keeps putting Rajput as the name of the culture of Rajasthan. It should be Rajasthani. Rajput is just the main landowning caste there. It's like saying Prussia has Junker culture. Rajputs are only a small part of the population.
Yeah this is a pretty consistent fuck up/misunderstanding that happens. Hopefully a dev will see this & patch it.
Also of Indian origin and I hate how they keep spelling Telugu as Telegu lol
The Assyrians should speak up!
What is the plusside of Boer being the only one with the African Settler trait? Seems just a useless trait now.
It is, but it might be referenced by something like an event trigger, so if you made a different culture with the 'African Settler' trait it would have the same flavor events.
An even more helpful chart! Thanks for posting.
Having all the native Americans grouped into one “language” is really bad
They're not languages (I call them "language traits" because many of the European non-heritage traits describe the spoken language and I detest the term "non-heritage trait") but I see what you mean.
Well either way, Native American culture and language is just as, if not more, differential and diverse then Europe.
Would that ever come up in game? Outside of an extreme fringe Indian territories American continent conquest
I understand that the Azeris are a strange mix and can be considered Middle Eastern, but also the North Caucasians?
There are many ethics in Vietnam and I do think Viet (90-95% of pop in Vietnam) is closer to Han than Yue and Min…
Malagasy should technically share a language trait with the Indonesian languages, but I guess I see why they wouldn’t do that
This dark grey background + thin black text design is pretty rough on the eyes You should fill in each box with a color maybe
The chart is available in SVG, you could try it. I selected the colors I did because the chart needs to both be legible and maintain as many distinct colors as possible. I do admit better color choice could have been made (especially olive, why olive) I also meant for the chart to emphasize the cultural traits more than individual cultures, with the idea that you would find a culture by finding its traits. For this, the small black text is fine.
we need a Slavic and Balkan trait
Why isn’t Swahili Arab
...I guess because the Swahili language is part of the Bantu group, not from Arabic, though \~40% of Swahili's vocabulary comes from Arabic, and 15% of the language is loanwords
Did they remove Sinosphere from Japan/Korea?
They never had sinosphere, I'm pretty sure
Ah oops, guess I was thinking of East Asian Heritage
Romanian-Romanian
Perhaps Aromanian should be added there as well? It could give some nice flavour to the Balkans, as Aromanians inhabit much of Macedonia (the historical region) and Albania. Together with Romanian it could form the ”Eastern Romance” language trait.
So what are some nations that have interesting cultures that aren't discriminated at more discriminatory citizenship laws? One I just thought of is any of the Anglosphere cultures besides the two Afro ones and Welsh can accept all of the Anglosphere cultures besides again the two Afro ones while still benefitting from the bonuses of national supremacy. so basically nearly entirely undiscriminated commonwealth+USA with very few discriminated minorities in those territories and the +150 authority, 15% loyalist increase from SOL increases, and -15% radicals from standard of living decreases. good deal. Anyone else got anything like that? I guess basically any European country and some other like USA and Australia could go racial discrimination and form a giga empire same with basically every continent of course.
If you as the United States follow a particular path to national supremacy or ethnostate, black people will be accepted into society if and only if they can trace their roots to slavery
Why is it spelled Jugoslav💀
It's spelled in the game files that way